Want Extra Sour Sourdough? (3 Things That DON'T Work for Me)

I'm on a quest to make an extra sour loaf of sourdough bread. This week, I made my master sourdough bread recipe using three common techniques that promise to give extra sour results. The final bread was sort of a disappointment. Here's what didn't work...
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[@VictorYepello]

My most sour loaves have been after a 48 hour cold nap. So much so I was asked to tone it down 😊

[@kathlenelarson9008]

I’m a scientist and the first thing I suggest is that you only make one change at a time/per loaf. When you combine changes, you may be getting some interaction between your changes (unintended.). I have also wondered about drying some of my starter and adding that to the dough before rising. Last, does a longer time in the refrigerator (i.e, 24 hours) make any difference? Love your videos and thanks for sharing this.

[@lindagordon2955]

Yes, it does! When I want a very sour sourdough, I let my dough ferment 3 or 4 days in the refrigerator. I follow all the regular ways to make my sourdough bread. The only different thing I do is let it sit longer in the fridge before I bake it.

[@stevedavidson8802]

My brother is a scientist. Yeah, he thinks he knows everything too. If you’re not a baker stick to science.

[@hansenmarc]

Good advice on only manipulating a single variable at a time.

[@onlyinparadise4613]

I tried the par Baking method by Heinrich. You have to leave it at room temperature (not in the fridge) for more than 24 hours. Then do the final browning bake. It’s an okay method though. My extra sour sourdough bread starts with an extra sour starter (I use a 100% whole wheat no discard method). Add flour to your regular starter to make it stiff first. Then neglect your starter in the fridge for several weeks to a month. Stir it up when it has that liquid layer on top. Just let the starter get discolored, too. When you want to make bread, give it two normal feedings instead of one at room temperature. It needs two feedings to activate. Otherwise, the bread will not rise fully. This works like a charm for me and my bread is just as tangy as San Francisco sourdough.

[@brandy4522]

Meanwhile not even in the sour note. Ive made sourdough for the past 3 years, with a starter thats been kept alive for for well over 20 years... and every loaf comes out a little different 😂🤦‍♀️ One of the best loafs I made was by accident, and it overproofed, but not to the point of failure (apparently). Result was a big fluffy, sour loaf that my fam has since requested , and i have yet to duplicate the result.😅 Best of luck, and thank you for sharing any tips and tricks on this. Youve helped me so much.

[@kathlenelarson9008]

How frustrating!

[@Cappy609]

I get wonderful results with 72 hours cold fermentation.

[@hansenmarc]

Thanks for continuing to experiment with techniques for increasing sourness. The only thing that’s worked for me so far is to wait to use my starter until it has a nice layer of sour-smelling hooch on it.

[@lisamorissette1750]

overnight levain, 8 hour room temp bulk ferment then overnight in fridge. this has produced the most sour loaf I've made

[@GrantBakes]

Thank you! The simple processes sometimes are the best.

[@KelliRivers]

@@GrantBakesI leave my dough in the fridge for 3 days and the flavor is amazing, but I struggle with oven rise. How can I get both??

[@johnsonrobbins]

This is great. I spent 3 months trying to figure out the same thing and was dissatisfied with my results. If I wanted French bread I could make it a lot faster. After trying all of the methods you tried here and a few more I have gotten decent success with the following. 1. Feed starter night before, so it’s a bit hungry by morning. 2. Use warm water in bread mixture 3. add 15/20% wheat 4. Lets the bread cold ferment in first proof 5-6 hours 5. Cold proof 12-24 hrs 6. Second proof is essential in warm humid location 3-4 hrs (I put it in the oven with a bowl of very hot water under it. ) These methods have gotten much better results, no clue which of them is most important and don’t care. Love my bread now. If you find a simple way love to hear it.

[@Julie-kb3mo]

Oh wow !! 😮 Thank you for sharing. This is what I've tried after getting a variety of KZbin suggestions: LESS starter used to begin the process is what I've read, and I believe it DOES work ! 😊 (20 grams max, even when using 500 or more grams of flour) Also, supposedly the more whole grains used in the starter, (whole wheat or rye) helps the taste be more sour. (Not just using the whole grains until maturity, as I believe you've shared😉) Fermenting the starter at a cooler temperature takes longer for it to peak, which supposedly makes it taste more sour. I do this for the entire ferment of the loaf, which is a LONG wait ! 😉 I generally keep the thermostat around 65°, maybe 66° in my place. It certainly takes longer for the bulk ferment, and it requires patience and attentiveness. 😉 My daughter has noticed and shared that there's more sour flavor in the multigrain loaves I make for her to take back to her place after she visits. 😊 So I guess these things are working ! We would still like EXTRA sour flavor, so please let us all know other ways you experiment that help achieve this. 💙

[@haylinmilsam]

I tried citric acid, and we didn’t notice any difference. Love your channel!

[@catbootsy]

I love the way you think. I sm also on this quest. I do get a sour loaf on occasion but still not sure why…. Your content has really improved my bread!

[@handsarah1992]

I used my starter after being fed and left in the fridge for about a week. Didn't take it out and let it rise or anything. Love this quest and can't wait to see what works for you!

[@user-uv7vp7wh8h]

I put the bread in fridge to ferment for 4-5 days than baked it and it got its sour dough taste. I also did bulk ferment for 5 hrs vs 3 hrs that also gave it more sour taste.

[@kathykathrynm9375]

I find that finishing bulk fermentation in refrigerator (bowl covered with disposable shower cap) for 2-3 days and then leaving my shaped loaf (in plastic bag) for over 24 hours (sometimes for several days,) gives me a more sour bread.

[@terryl.9302]

Dash of cider vinegar into mix, not the starter. Problem Solved. Softer texture, easier handling.

[@geraldinelucas3143]

I just downloaded your e-book/Christmas and anxious to try as I am fairly new at sourdough. To make my sourdough a little more sour I put citric acid in the dough when I do the salt. Saw that somewhere on youtube just don't know the exact amount. Here in CA you can't even find the Extra Sour Sourdough they used to sell?

[@barrychambers4047]

I'm still learning, but this has worked for me: Use a small amount of levain, 4-5%. Use at least 25% whole wheat and 25% rye in your starter and levain. Generally ferment at cooler temperatures, both starter and levain, 70-76F. Wait until your starter and levain start to fall. Use a stiffer starter and Levain, 60-80% hydration. Stir starter and levain once in a while to oxygenate. Use 20-25% whole wheat and rye in your dough. Ferment your dough at 70-76F range. Bulk ferment to 75-80% rise.This can take most of the day if you are trying to maintain your dough at about 72F, so start early. If your dough shows no signs of rising in the first 6-7 hour don't despair, it will happen. If the refrigerator temperatures are 35-38F try to cold proof at least 36-48hrs, or longer. Check out the Detmolder 1-3 stage starter methods for the best way to keep starters happy. The Detmolder one-stage produces the most sour starter. So, your levain can be quite sour and that is one reason why you don't want to use but a small proportion. Same way with starter refreshment, very small carry over.

[@nicolasafanador7157]

I would suggest using a stiff starter. In Italy its pretty common to use stiff starter or lievito madre for pannetone, Pandoro and pizza in teglia. It develops so much acidity and it´s so pungent that normally it has to be soaked in lukewarm water with a pinch of sugar to reduce this pungent taste and smell. Hydration of the starter should be around 40%.

[@GrantBakes]

Interesting! I always thought that the stiff lievito madre was fed in such a way to reduce the acidity and sourness and to favor the yeast instead of the acid. This is great to consider though. Thanks for sharing.

[@user-uv7vp7wh8h]

I do havé à question for you. I incorporated seeds into the bread following your instructions put half of seeds in 2nd stretch and fold and the other half in 3rd stretch and fold. The bread had risen well but ones I put it in fridge it deflated really bad. Is there a reason why my bread deflated?.

[@mattymattffs]

When parbaking you must temp your bread internals. It should be 90-93C. Anything cooler means it isn't done baking. Also, to get more sourness, let your starter go even longer. Give it a feed, room temp for the day, then in the fridge for weeks or months. Then use it from that, no extra feed. The bulk will be slow and that in my experience has a larger impact than anything else. Starter composition matters a lot, so that's where you need to cultivate the sour. This was my experience while combating the sour that I don't want

[@GrantBakes]

Very informative! Maybe the starter is the secret and not only the dough. Thanks for sharing.

[@suzyb.6234]

Looking forward to when you crack the code!

[@GrantBakes]

You and me both!

[@garioma1344]

Bread knight, I look forward to your new quest!

[@GrantBakes]

Huzzah!

[@stevedavidson8802]

All you have to do is add citric acid food grade 1 teaspoon per thousand grams of flour that’s what makes your sourdough

[@GrantBakes]

Thanks! I’d love to achieve sourness without adding citric acid however. I’m assuming citric acid and/or vinegar are how supermarket “sourdough” bread gets its touch of sourness.

[@shanti34567]

I use rye flour and bulk ferment up to 18 hours in the fridge, also add a bit of citric acid crystal, and a well-aged and ripened starter that contains good bread flour and 25% rye. Often it is extra sour. But never consistently. Long ferments seem to be most helpful. After studying the chemistry of sourdough through the university of Google,LOL, it seems that the yeast and bacteria mix, along with cool rising temperature are the key but since there are so many complex things that have to come together for extra sour it is impossible to be consistently successful. Dealing with living organisms, randomly affected by wild intruders, I think, makes our goal of extra sour each time a mere dream at the end of the Yellow. brick Road.😊 hopefully I am wrong about this and someone will publish a sure-fire technique that doesn’t include artificial flavoring. Thanks for your efforts and for sharing. You are not alone. Your SOUR sourdough “tribe” is with you all the way.

[@stevedavidson8802]

@@shanti34567 How much rye flour do you use per thousand gram loaves or for two loaves thousand grams like 100 g of rye flour

[@DebraUlrich-om3uk]

Grant-I believe you are correct because “manufacturers” of bread have to have consistant results.

[@michelleslifeonrepeat]

I literally just baked bread that was neglected for 5 days. Day one was all the folds and first rise. Then refrigerated her in a tightly sealed bowl for 4 days. I got sick and couldn’t get to it. On day four at night I took her out onto the counter to double rise. I meant to shape and roll and put in baskets. Well, I forgot. I woke up to a pooped off lid on my counter. I punched it down, poured out separated and shaped. She rose up and I snapped into baskets for a 30 min chill in refrigerator. I baked the two loves cold in cold oven and cold Dutch ovens. 450 degrees for 50 min. Then about 8 more minutes right on the rack after popping them out of the Dutch ovens. So far it’s been my best tangy loaf . Yeah I’m going to try making them one day and baking much longer in the week. The key was the sealed in dough inside a big enough sealed container to slowly expand and ferment.

[@JulieSparks-cd5ub]

I’ve heard that adding rye flour, just a bit, helps make it more sour. I’m behind you all the way on this quest!

[@GrantBakes]

I think rye is definitely something I’ll be trying!

[@brandy4522]

I add some Rye flour almost every loaf now, and can't really tell a difference in sourness, but adds complexity that's nice.

[@kathlenelarson9008]

Is that to the starter or the final dough?

[@TooBuffed]

both :) @@kathlenelarson9008

[@shelleyd8990]

I feel your pain. I live at 5300 ft in elevation, that's tricky. I desire more sour also. I tried feeding my starter for a week, let it sit out on counter, on a seed mat for warmth. It over flows the jar at times it's so active and yet I get disappointing results. 😒 Rye flour is sometimes recommended to activate the starter faster, with better results. It is a tough hit or miss when you invest so much time, effort & product! Maybe we need to call San Francisco lol. What's their secret? The marine layer/moisture? 🤔

[@GrantBakes]

Good question!

[@Deecontractor]

I think the area does help, I took my starter camping on the Oregon coast and finally got real sourdough bread. I named it Gold Beach. Back home in nor Cal my starter makes great bread but not sour. Funny it slowly got less sour.

[@DebraUlrich-om3uk]

Can’t wait for you to “crack the code” Grant! I for one want a tangy sour dough bread!

[@hopelessnostalgic8444]

the sourest “loaf” i ever made was where i overfermented my dough by accident during bulk fermentation and it was too sticky to shape, so i turned it into focaccia and it was VERY sour. unfortunately i think the best way to get it to that point is to borderline overferment it but not to the point where it’s far gone that you can’t use it!

[@emilyschick6327]

I have been trying to start my sourdough starter for over 2 weeks. I have tried your method of putting 50 grams in a clear jar and feeding it every 12 hours. I’ve been feeding every 12 hours and putting in a clean jar for a a full week now and my starter still hasn’t doubled in size. It hardly rises at all (maybe 1 centimeter above my rubber band). It will produce small bubbles between feedings. I am using whole wheat flour and unsoftened well water. What am I doing wrong?

[@joannestretch]

when i want a sour loaf these are the things that have worked for me - use more salt to slow down the fermentation -slow the fermentation down by using the least amount of starter so it takes way longer to ferment, like 10g starter for 500g flour -use cold water, this is temporary however for fermentation brings heat -cold retard in the fridge for more than 72hrs and more up to 5 day (120hrs) high gluten flour is needed -add dark whole rye to the starter and the dough -mature starter (at least 3 months old)will be more sour than young starter -counter starter , skip a meal before making the dough -fridge starter, stir it to incorporate air, will make the acetic acids more prominent -stiff starter is more sour 1:5: 2.5 (water) more acetic acids compared to liquid starter (more lactic acids) #2 and #4 work best in my experience have fun experimenting, i recommend doing one at time otherwise you wont know which worked or didnt for you

[@sparrowdanielsdottir5888]

Why not try each technique separately? Perhaps one cancelled out the others. Just a thought.

[@GrantBakes]

That would be a good way to test each technique individually. Maybe we’d find something out that way.

[@Rye_d_baker]

💯 agree

[@Eyesofmars2040]

Did you let the bread come to room temp before the 2nd bake?

[@johnsonrobbins]

I think this is the key, a second rise seems to make a big difference for me

[@Cbbq]

How about a less sour video, without using any sugar? Cheers from… Canada

[@lisapons-labelle2602]

My whole wheat sourdough always tastes more sour than when I use white flour. I wonder what’s going on there?

[@SuzyCrowdy]

I use Citric Acid

[@galemartin3277]

Allowing it to ferment and double on the counter is what makes my bread sour.

[@johnsonrobbins]

I completely agree with this approach. After a long cool rest in the fridge that second warm ferment seems to be what makes the bread sour for me

[@ihus9950]

Try Try again👍🏻

[@GrantBakes]

Indeed

[@Yonilovers69]

It is soooooo hard to find a recipe out there for chocolate sourdough with 100% whole wheat OR rye OR spelt. EVERYONE uses white flour. PLEASE HELP!

[@GrantBakes]

Like a sweet chocolate sourdough or unsweetened? I assume whole grain flour doesn’t take on the chocolate flavor as well as white flour does.

[@Yonilovers69]

@@GrantBakes either, I don't mind!

[@Yonilovers69]

@@GrantBakes either, I don't mind!

[@debrag.3722]

I cheat. Add 1/2-1 tsp citric acid to the dough. Great flavor, no extra work.

[@GrantBakes]

I had no idea so many people did this! So interesting. I may need to try it to see how I like the flavor.

[@krazmokramer]

That par-baking thing is nonsense. Kroger sells par-baked LaBrea sourdough loaves to be finished at home. These may go days between 1st and 2nd baking. Definitely not "sour." That person you got the idea from has no clue what they're talking about. Just looking for the YT clicks!