War of the Ring VS Dune War for Arrakis VS Star Wars Rebellion

[@TableTopTroubadour]

You guys TEAR IT UP together!! So much fun, and so useful to watch at the same time. Between this and the amazing Aeon's End buying guide, you guys are doing some of the best gaming content on the webs. Thank you!

[@RoomandBoardReviews]

@@TableTopTroubadour thanks! We have fun so we're glad you enjoyed as well :)

[@LordoftheBoard]

Man I was singing with you in that intro! GOATED

[@zacharygroombridge6511]

this was a fun discussion and such a fun day of gaming. glad to revisit this again

[@gera9576]

Check out guys the 3.0v rules of Dune,they state some changes over imperial bans,every time one downs a level,the ban enter plays.Maybe with this the Harkonnen player will have some tough choices and less options

[@the_vitor]

Great comparison! I own all three games, and my top picks are: 1. Dune: War for Arrakis - For me, it's a streamlined version of WOTR but better in almost every aspect and in a more approachable time 2. WOTR - Although Dune is a better game for me, WOTR feels more epic when playing. This might be due to its higher difficulty or the way the story unfolds 3. Star Wars: Rebellion - A crazy fun game! I love the hide-and-seek aspect of the Rebel base and the action programming with the "leaders" Every game improves with more plays because you learn the cards better, etc but WOTR is the one that you feel it more

[@JPBelanger]

Exact same opinion. We also consider length as an aspect. That's the main reason we don't play WotR often. We tend to make a day of it.

[@pierrecarles2390]

Alright, three little things: 1. Guys, you should totally watch Shut up and Sit Down comparison between Star Wars Rebellion and War of the Ring to get why the latter, on a narrative standpoint, is miles above the former. I do not believe there is any game that is as well interlinked with its theme than WotR, and that is what people love in it (but it is okay if you do not care for that side of the game, obviously). 2. The rulebook in WotR is NOTORIOUSLY difficult to swallow. This has been known for years, to the point that most people use BGG's alternate pdfs instead. But that is not to say the GAME is not fun. Remember there is literally a 20-years gap between WotR and War for Arrakis: rulebooks writing has improved tremendously in that timeframe. 3. Point 2 is the very reason why IT IS NONSENSICAL to rate these kinds of heavy thematic wargames after the very first play (and after the very first play in a continuous 12-hours game extravaganza, at that !). Such games have to be learnt to become enjoyable. This all sounds to me a bit like if you put people in a room for a day who have never played music, gave them a kazoo, a piano and a cello, and asked them at the end of the day which is the most fun instrument: I am pretty sure that on such a setup, the kazoo wins every time ! Still, I enjoyed the review, obviously, you guys have a fun dynamics together (and Zach's voice acting is both great and hilarious !).

[@justinvamp15]

Agreed on all points. It is tough for such long games to have to commit multiple plays to really get a grasp of the game, but that's just the reality of it. Easily worth it. I don't understand Chris + Zach's claim that the WOTR player aids are bad, though. Yeah the rulebook is pretty terrible, but there are MANY all-time great games with terrible rulebooks - Robinson Crusoe, Mage Knight, etc - so that has literally no bearing on the quality of the game itself, especially with the many high quality rules explanation videos online at this point. But the player aids are really really good in this game, they explain 85% of what you need to know in a very clear way. Not sure why they felt the opposite.

[@cfosburg]

@@pierrecarles2390 #3 - Good point. I guess it’s also important to state these games are not for everyone. They require homework, and patience, and practice. But, if you are are willing to put in the effort, you will be rewarded with one of the most unique and fulfilling experiences.

[@pierrecarles2390]

@@justinvamp15 , exactly. I, for one, am a big fan of the game helps made by the chap from The Esoteric Order of Gaming. The man is a graphic designer for the game industry, and it shows in the structural quality and clarity of the documents he produces (for free) for many games. I recommend checking his YT channel and web site, they are both great ressources. And you gotta love that kiwi accent !

[@matthewmcwithey1004]

"Note that lower-numbered Victory conditions take precedence over higher-numbered Victory conditions, if two or more are achieved on the same turn." Bold, third paragraph on the page you read from. You made me think I imagined reading that. There are still several card rulings that are esoteric and I would never guess. I love the game, but I do fear it's mostly its thematic nature. I do agree that there are flaws particularly the need to spray paint the armies. But theme and complexity are directly correlated and is a trade I'm willing to make.

[@lukejw11]

I love War of the Ring (and I love all three of these games), but I think your comment around its specificity of narrative is valid and something which Dune and Rebellion have improved on.

[@cfosburg]

I have 2 suggestions for you in the epic 2 player games! 1. Hannibal & Hamilcar (warning, bad rule book), also don’t play the full version, play at level 2 or 3 (only a few hours long) 2. War Room 💎 great rule book, very complex, incredible gameplay! I recommend you play the African Campaign (shortest version) One honorable mention for an epic two-player skirmish game, is my favorite game of all time, Mythic Battles! It’s epic, but not with armies or scale.

[@bencalabretta6947]

My son (11 years) and I played War of the Ring for the first time over Thanksgiving. We played it twice in a row so that we could each try the different factions. First game was rough with the rules learning curve. Second game was way more fun with some big moments. We also have and love Star Wars Rebellion. We haven’t played War for Arrakis, though it’s on the list now!

[@cfosburg]

In most of these games, I would say the complexity level for the ‘Good’ player is much higher than the ‘Villains’. Which is to say, it takes a little more experience to effectively use the ‘Good’ players.

[@justinvamp15]

Agreed - very hard to have a good understanding of how to play them well (which is important for fun factor in these specific games) on a first play.

[@SenseiJae]

You and I agree on war of the ring. It is refreshing to know I am not alone.

[@rodolfocucchiella2815]

Another thing I forgot to say! We all know why Chris didn't enjoy WotR: being the Dark Lord himself, he couldn't bear to play as a puny little representative of the Free People... he NEEDS to crush our gaming concerns under his mighty boot! 😂😂😂 Great review and perfect rating: 1) Dune 2) Rebellion 3) WotR

[@RoomandBoardReviews]

Hahaha that must have been it!

[@JPBelanger]

Ok, now the beard is back ? (Also, awesome intro)

[@RoomandBoardReviews]

@@JPBelanger haha and it'll be gone in the next one!

[@chadstilson8804]

Curious if you played SW Rebellion with the Expansion Battle System? It makes the game SO smooth

[@zacharygroombridge6511]

Ya we did

[@chadstilson8804]

@ Noice!

[@sidneyleejohnson]

Interesting timing considering Ares just launched its Two Decades Anniversary Edition pre-order today.

[@RoomandBoardReviews]

@@sidneyleejohnson oh did they? Nice. Yeah this one kept getting pushed for 5 reasons or more timely stuff

[@sidneyleejohnson]

@@RoomandBoardReviews Well this experience with the pre-order on the Ares website is turning into 5 reasons why Creators should outsource their crowdfunding to KS/GameF. Even if you don't need another copy of the LE they are offering some extras like a cardbox for sleeved cards and an updated strategy guide so there is something for returning backers but just getting to the checkout phase has been a failure for many. Anyway don't get me wrong, THANK YOU ARES for the opportunity!

[@VaultBoy13]

@@RoomandBoardReviews You should buy to ensure that no one else can. It's only $850 for the full set.

[@2bitcents429]

Where there's a whip, there's a way!?!?!? 5 star call back! Didn't think i could love you more 😅

[@RoomandBoardReviews]

@@2bitcents429 yessssssssssss it's one of the best songs from those movies!

[@cfosburg]

I thought I was the only person who knew and randomly chanted this song! 😂

[@cfosburg]

War of the Ring - The rule book is atrocious. I have printed player aids, Order Esoteric games rule book, and made my own notes. I’ve played this game 3 times, I’ve never gone under 6 hours! Having said that, this is not a bad game! It is an excellent game! One that rewards multiple play throughs. There are so many decisions to make. After you play a few times, there are only a few pliable strategies, but they are all different and have no guarantees for either player.

[@cfosburg]

2 other sources I use for rules are: Harsh Rules LonelyMan BGs

[@cfosburg]

Watch RTFM’s videos on War of the Ring Strategies, and take your game to the next level! 😈

[@cfosburg]

Dune: War for Arrakis - my first play through was about 4 hours, but my second play though was 3 hours! And I’m convinced I could get down under 3 hours. For House Atreides, if you don’t have an action dice or have fewer than House Harkonnen does, you can to do a desert power action. This is not just once, but as long as the condition applies! “Once both players have rolled their Action dice, they alternate turns taking 1 Action each, starting with the Atreides player.” “The available options are: - Spend 1 Action Die to execute 1 of the Actions corresponding to its die result. - Spend any 1 Action Die to play a Planning card from their hand. - Take a Desert Power Action” This action doesn’t require spending any Action die. However, it can only be chosen if the Atreides player has fewer unused Action dice than the Harkonnen player. A DESERT POWER Action allows to: 1. Place 2 Wormsign tokens conditionally in any Desert Area 2. Activate 2 different Sandworms already on the board

[@RoomandBoardReviews]

@@cfosburg oh yeah, definitely. That's also part of the reason I didn't worry about Zach's spice harvesters as much because I really liked using the Desert power. Another great improvement from War of the Ring vs Arrakis

[@tteshera]

I have no one I can play these games with, so I play WotR two-handed (solo) and have a great time with it. Aside from strategy, there's nothing "secret" in it, so you can switch back-and-forth and play out the drama solo without spoiling anything - this mode of play isn't for most, but many of us do it. I don't think that's possible with Rebellion due to the secret information component. What about Dune? Any thoughts on whether that would similarly be playable solo for those of us who do that with WotR?

[@RoomandBoardReviews]

@@tteshera I know War for Arrakis could work solo. I feel like I know a few people who have played it solo and enjoyed it. I think Star Wars Rebellion would be much harder to do solo because of the secret information and that being SUCH an integral part of the game.

[@esTOPfomo]

There are community solo rules for both sides of Rebellion. I received my copy of rebellion one week ago so haven't tried them yet

[@tteshera]

@@esTOPfomo I've looked at these and they look promising on paper, but I find it hard to suss out whether the community thinks these work well or not. Would love to hear back here how your experience with them goes!

[@malcolmdouglasmichaluk8263]

I recommend joining a local board game club on instagram or facebook group and find people to play with.

[@rodolfocucchiella2815]

Wow 3 SUPER games, each worth to play and have if one wants to improve his own collection. I have all of them and I love them: you can feel the theme of the IP and tell amazing stories playing them. I agree that Dune is a better War of the Ring version, aside the IP setting, because it has quicker, streamlined and fresh rules that can help also unexperienced players to understand and play better. Also miniatures etc are better because... well, 20 years have passed so... I think that if you have one, two or three of these, you can't go wrong. Keep up the good work!

[@JPBelanger]

Dune: WfA: Yeah, you have to a) get worms on the board and b) complicate spice production. These things are complementary.

[@victorp4210]

Completely agree ! SWR by far the best of the three, Dune is shorter, streamlined and fun even though i dont get that epic end game feeling as much, really dislike WOTR

[@JPBelanger]

War of the Ring: we often play at four players, since we don't play often and the rules are fiddly We also play the deluxe edition, which is more user friendly. We would not play Arrakis at four players.

[@chrisarney8265]

I haven't played Dune. But I WAY disagree with you on WotR. All 3 games are a pain in the butt to play and learn (it's insanity that you did all 3 in one day... 4 hours a piece actually seems kind of short). And since I don't like Star Wars anywhere near as much as LotR, I'm not as willing to push through the overhead, despite thinking it's a pretty good game. I found myself tripping over what I could do in Rebellion more so than in WotR. So unless Dune is just THAT much more improved over WotR (but then again, I'm kinda meh on Dune as an IP), I don't know, man, I just completely disagree.

[@VaultBoy13]

Dune is War of the Ring streamlined. It's easily the most accessible of these games, because it cuts out a bunch of mechanism and shifts the focus mostly to combat. You don't need to rally forces like in War of the Ring. You don't have dual-use cards. The cards are overall simpler. There's no hidden movement rules. There's no special Mordor track for pitching the ring.

[@shardeus8637]

Fremen Rebellion of the Ring

[@victorp4210]

Think i saw a harvester on a Minor Erg region ? 🤔

[@RoomandBoardReviews]

@@victorp4210 I'm not sure, I'm guessing that's illegal and I can disqualify Zach's win!? Huzzah!

[@victorp4210]

@RoomandBoardReviews illegal indeed :)

[@RoomandBoardReviews]

@@victorp4210 Haha, I just looked up a map and I'm pretty sure that he never harvested spice from there so probably was just a weird video thing. Dang, I'll have to let his victory stand!

[@JPBelanger]

War for Arrakis, I've felt through 4-5 plays to be much more card dependent than Rebellion. Early atomics really complicates the Harkonnen way of life.