War Thunder's air realistic battles need to change

[@WalvisYT]

Note: this video is about making ARB more fun within a relatively short timeframe. Long term, a lot more would need to be changed about ARB; as I say in the video, the gamemode is plagued by a lot more issues than what I discussed. Ideally, I would love to see the return of a reworked ARB EC PvEvP gamemode with a great emphasis on multirole combat, paired with a 2nd gamemode that is just current ARB, but 8vs8 without any AI vehicles (so PvP only). However, this would require a full re-work of ARB; it would probably take quite a while until we'd receive such a rework. Until then, the solution I propose in this video would work as a band-aid fix to make ARB more enjoyable at top tier.

[@WalvisYT]

Also, since I saw some people discussing this in other comments; no, they should absolutely not remove the spotting system from ARB. This is a genuinly TERRIBLE idea that would completely ruin ARB. This would make me, as well as many fellow CCs, instantly quit. In GRB no markers for aircraft works for a variety of reasons, those same reasons don't apply to ARB since these are two very different gamemodes. Maybe I'll make a video explaining why the spotting system is essential for ARB at some point.

[@TunderTunder.]

I have a slightly more complicated idea, what do you say? google: "Warthunder aviation_mode_escalation_with_antiradiation" The current ARB has never essentially changed since 2013. Perhaps head-on fights are not a bad idea for props, but let's be honest - this mode is clearly outdated, especially for top-tier jets. And the more complex Confrontation is also too boring for the target audience of the game. Perhaps a new mode, which will focus on the interaction of various branches of the military, in particular aviation, will bring a new breath of air to the game. The new mode will give a chance to anti-radadiation AGMs, strategic bombers, and tactical nuclear weapons in one battle.

[@idhqbqjqsixjbsnqkwiwhs]

Uve had ur chance to send a survey with ideas for the roadmap 2024

[@cagingskies9584]

​@@WalvisYTI've seen a shocking amount of people suggest removing the spotting system, and despite Gaijn almost never listening to the player base, it's making me nervous lol I'd love a video talking about the issues with this idea, and perhaps you could set up a custom battle and test it out! Loved the video❤

[@kryperdev]

RB EC is the best thing they could introduce across all tiers. Bombers would need to take routes and be safer, attackers would be safer, fighters could intercept and dogfight outside of massive furballs. Sim EC works for top tier just because size and density of players is low. You might have games where you wont fight anyone. It also have nice gameplay graph where you have down times and up times in game play. Some boring parts yeah but those exciting parts become way more exciting because of that boring part where you are looking for enemies. Especially if you score a kill after 2 minute dogfight. Overall I hate air RB at any BR because whole thing turned into massive cluster in the middle. Bomb bases are close together so bombers either get intercepted instantly or have to fly to the side for 5 minutes. Attackers are a joke as they will be intercepted as soon as they are over battlefield. It is pure deathmatch where who ever have better players in fighters and more of them wins.

[@unoriginalplays120]

The fact that they have had essentially the same air rb game mode from since like 2014 is ridiculous. You fly in, missile people in the fur ball then either your team or the enemy team falls apart. The 16v16 makes it worse

[@21babydew]

wdym its been the same since i was in the closed beta..... in 2012

[@thequintanahomestead3820]

So true, give us a game mode with some purpose not just the merge chaos we have now

[@ThunderAce99]

@@21babydew No it's not. it used to be called historical battles and the battles were historically accurate. for example full team of US vs full team of Japan. or Russia vs Germany. and it used to happen in historically accurate maps such as battle of berlin. and players size used to be smaller. sometimes it was even 5 vs 5. usually it was 6 vs 6 or 8 vs 8. I don't remember exactly.

[@niggalini]

​@@ThunderAce99and also, there were many asymmetrical maps a few which survive to this day. The Britain map of back then used to have UK take off from inland while Germany had the air spawn over the channel, and the Saipan and Wake Island maps had US/UK take off from the islands while Japanese naval fighters took off from carriers while Japanese land based fighters got airspawn

[@One90972]

16 vs 16 is relatively new thing

[@GeneralLee2000]

They're just gonna add AMRAAMs next patch and keep it 16v16 🤐

[@foe111]

Mr Lee?!!!

[@SRDPS2]

And they add it, AMRAAM but also optional smaller players

[@zimot]

hey, guess what

[@mecadragoon]

their "map size increase" was not really a map size increase since the play area is still the same, what they really need to do is increase the play area

[@Daze-ew6xj]

yeah, they just made more useless empty spaces and put more players in a match which made everything more chaotic

[@fullsetsunk4090]

There's no point in increasing play area when people will just gravitate towards the center

[@stefanrobertdaniel2627]

Yes, I wish I didnt spend 3 minutes to reach a zone with 32 airplanes. Also a spawning system like the one in World in Conflict would be so much better

[@funtick228]

That is already a thing in sim maps.

[@artonio5887]

agreed, map size increase only works if you also add different spawn points. The focus should be on creating more than one fighting center, with fewer players in each center.

[@adsadsaddFQ]

Can you imagine: 8vs8, large maps with more aifields to spawn on and some stuff to attack/defend and no visible enemy markers

[@sebastiankillin7940]

they call that simulator battles.

[@testpilot.]

Dont like the first person thb​@@sebastiankillin7940

[@randombreg-kv5pj]

@@sebastiankillin7940 sim with realistic flight model and 3rd person.... why is this not a thing?

[@adsadsaddFQ]

@@sebastiankillin7940 yeah but I want 3rd view and RB controls

[@freezedvegetal]

go play sim

[@freezedvegetal]

As well as this, the spotting system is atrocious right now in top tier. The fact that you can be engaged and killed by people outside your minimum spotting distance is beyond stupid. You can't really pay attention to what the enemy is doing if you don't even know that they are there in the first place lol

[@frankymr2]

Thats why you use radar. You will hate it when bvr comes in then.

[@v0idwalker489]

@@frankymr2radar and rwr are your best friends

[@freezedvegetal]

@@frankymr2 BVR is already a relevant tactic and I am referring to people above you or beside you. Long range radar missiles will ping your RWR giving you warning and time to react but someone 4km behind or below you launching a 9M at you will not show up on radar or RWR

[@decoydesignz290]

@@freezedvegetal I don't mean to sound like a dick, but isn't that sorta the point?

[@ShatteredArchive5447]

@@decoydesignz290Yeah, it is the point. IR missiles aren’t gonna trip your warning systems off and I think there shouldn’t be a red cone to warn about them, maybe an introduction of more pronounced missile burn smoke could change that up.

[@XYVTN]

There is a post on the forum in the suggestions/gameplay section with a poll titled: "Reduce the amount of players in Air RB matches in top tier". I'd recommend for people to vote there aswell as the moderators have already taken note of it. As for 8v8, I also think it would allow for more tactical gameplay and since you'll have more dogfights you'll be able to learn the game and your respective plane.

[@WizardVal]

And on top of this will allow to rebalance the compression from 2 to 1,25-1,50. Let say 10,0 will rather meet 9,3 or 10,7. Wouldn’t that be great relief?

[@Hamzah.162]

send the link please

[@ironconsumer]

I think another thing is that 12.3 should only fight against 12.3 because what fun is there by clicking on a stock f4 for example and killing it with your irccm missile

[@delsymdrinker8064]

They need to take a Heli PVE approach to it, multiple airfields, multiple respawns, ec maps. but of course they will never do it

[@KisliyGolub]

This is called ASB

[@stefanrobertdaniel2627]

​@@KisliyGolub the problem with ASB is the controls, I dont have a HOTAS and the mouse is really frustrating to use...

[@shukes4645]

@@KisliyGolub sim battles controls are a pain

[@KisliyGolub]

@@stefanrobertdaniel2627 literally have no troubles here. There's a ton of guides to calibrate your controls

[@KisliyGolub]

@@shukes4645 literally have no troubles here. There's a ton of guides to calibrate your controls

[@ramasseum2590]

I would also consider adding multiple spawn points on the map like in Ground Battles to spread out the players a bit. Should work better on larger maps.

[@universegigachad6155]

for real vro

[@juehju]

what if we could spawn in multiple planes like GB? also I agree

[@Anti-Villain-Wolf]

I'd like to see something like enduring encounters mode for air RB with realistic flying settings, and more focus on completing objectives that come up randomly in a match, rather than it becoming a TDM every time. Basically, with a few tweaks, something like protect/destroy convoys or bombers, maintain air superiority over a section of the map, and destroying bases. Plus having respawn being a thing would be nice so one lucky shot doesn't end the match for you, and you can get right back at it

[@andrewruss5824]

You literally just described Simulator battles, give it a try.

[@mhizarci94]

You when they introduced the F4 s there were enduring battle matches and those were awesome you ask anybody who played those maps for a few days will says it was the best moment of their life in war thunder. But gaijin simply removed them cuz they think it effects matchmaking times and people started to grind much easier.

[@cola-warthunder]

@@andrewruss5824 Sim battles but with RB controls & a spotting system.

[@kickdrop4660]

@@andrewruss5824Some of us are console players. And way more of us would rather play DCS than WT “Sim”

[@andrewruss5824]

@@kickdrop4660 I'm a console player, I play sim

[@jonahhuckel4838]

What we need is Sim battles but in Air RB. Enduring Confrontation.

[@MrBboy95]

Suprising as it sounds orbital strikes with Gripen and Su work quite good and it rare to meet someone at high alt and it's fun when you get like 3 kills in span of seconds

[@WalvisYT]

It is fun, but also extremely repetative.

[@xentionX]

@@WalvisYT Its War Thunder? everything in that game is repetitive.

[@bruhhhhmoment4848]

Top tier used to be smaller matches like 8v8 bc less people were there but now theres a ton of people in matches and better missiles

[@FairFireFight]

When air RB triggers mental reactions I didn't even know I had

[@PvtPartzz]

I’m convinced the only way air sim battles will ever see updates and new maps is if arb gets its EC mode back. I hate how neglected EC is when it is so clearly the better game mode for higher tiers (all tiers imo).

[@_Joob]

Only time I REALLY enjoy the current 16 v 16 top tier is when I'm squadding lol (which is kind of rare ngl).

[@MiketheVGCPlayer]

0:11 I know you didn't just disrespect the gripen

[@starr276]

I love how he said Su27 and showed the Su47. (And no one said anything about it.)

[@ifoundmemallet3394]

A good way to remedy this is take away the spotting system in Air rb. Make it to so you can still your teammates names but enemies don’t see each others bright ass names. That way you ACTUALLY have to use your radar and awareness skills

[@hmkjuygj7t]

i started to play sim battles because i just cant handle playing rb in F-5E and F-4E

[@ГеоргийГорский-я7у]

This aged so well

[@nightisl8804]

Mate you just need to play the grippen and you will have the most fun in top tier. But on the other hand if you don't fly a grippen or anything with many flares you suffer cause you need to flare everything from every angle possible and also you have to look every where because of the bad spotting system sometimes.

[@WalvisYT]

Gripie is bae, but my complaints remain.

[@nightisl8804]

@@WalvisYT Ye there are good points in your vid, but after some rounds of top tier i feel like its not realy a 16v16, because atleast 1/3 of the idiots Crash at the start, get radarmissled without doing anything or just go bombing and die. This matchmaking is on of the best because its a Equal amount of idiots in both Teams all the time.

[@smc-susan]

we need game mode like TDM there was Enduroce conflict once but it was deleted due to bot problem but at this point, gaijin added plenty of anti-bots mechanism so it's good to be added

[@kingalbby2497]

I would also like to see 2 airfield that you take off from that default choice is random (like in some Ground RB maps). Ground Targets are spaced out dramatically, Like having bomb targets and convoys the whole width of the map. The Idea Being that you would have instead of 1 missive fur ball in the center with a only a few players trying to flank it, you would get 2 smaller fur balls or a wider spread of players across the entirety of the map.

[@chamberlane2899]

Could also be interesting to make maps with many steep mountains and tunnels running around (or through) the objectives for you to ACE combat through to pull off flanking maneuvers/evade incoming missiles. Maybe add friendly tracking radars on the ground that can spot enemy aircraft for you/guide anti-aircraft missiles, but which can be countered by flying low/firing anti-radiation missiles. Maybe add even add friendly EW suites into the mix to lower radar detection ranges across some sight lines

[@chamberlane2899]

Ooo! Ooo! Give each team an AWACS platform too which can detect every enemy plane, but only after every enemy EW suite has been cleared out. You then just model everything by if the radar sweep of the AWACS has a EW suite inside of it, it doesn’t detect any enemy planes, otherwise, it detects every enemy plane within that radar sweep.

[@blobfish7159]

Gaijin really needs to do something about the BR compression at top tier. It is absolutely horrendous. The SU-27 and F-15 being the same BR as a Netz is absurd. That thing has no radar missiles and 6 okay IR missiles. Even more ridiculous is Phantoms and Mig-23's can go up against them. It boggles my mind as to why they haven't increased the dammed BR already, its stupid

[@CaariocsBR]

In my opinion, putting 8v8 still wouldn't change anything, as people always tend to go to the middle of the map, what would actually change the top tier is not reducing the number of players, but actually putting more bases to spawn, force players to spawn in these bases where that would place them in different positions on the map, improve and spread out the objectives they have to do on the map, nothing other than actually redoing air rb will change what happens now, it could be 6v6, 8v8, 10v10, the ending will be the same where everyone will meet in the middle of the map, the way of playing needs to be reworked

[@WalvisYT]

"putting 8v8 still wouldn't change anything, as people always tend to go to the middle of the map" It would change a lot, as there would be only 16 players fighting in the centre of the map instead of 32. That said, my suggestion is very much a band-aid solution. I'd love to see a proper re-introduction of ARB EC PvEvP at some point, as well as a 2nd gamemode that is just 8vs8 PvP. However, this would require a fundamental redesign of WT ARB. Until that has happened, 8vs8 could be a stop-gap solution to making top tier more fun.

[@xxshockassasinxx]

This is what I've been saying for a while now. Reducing the player count wont fix the problem. The next issue would be that if your team gets one or two or even three bomber or attack aircraft, would basically mean youll have a way higher chance of losing if you face a team of F16's or SU27's.

[@CaariocsBR]

but it would still be a furball but with a smaller number of players, it would still be a clusterfuck in the middile of the map without any objective, I believe that a real solution would be to make the furball occur as few times as possible, prioritizing more realistic scenarios, your suggestion only means that furball will have fewer people but it will not cease to exist, but yeah i agree, gaijin should make a mode like -death match- which war thunder already is, where everyone just goes to the middle of the map and fight and another mode calling idk - air rb ec- or something that will provide a better or more realistic scenario @@WalvisYT

[@firestarteronyoutube5542]

I mean, why not both.

[@demscrazy6574]

@@WalvisYTthere is a very simple solution. Make top tier jets play a different game mode in the form of enduring confrontation. They won’t do it tho.

[@Thecamper0131]

top tier air rb to be more fun? add a mode where its gun only no missile just gun gun gun and all of a sudden all of the issues just magically go away

[@prex2000]

Ok but what about making playable areas bigger? EC had that on the right path, sure players still usually take the same general route, but its certainly better than normal maps like Sinai or Vietnam where its 1000kmx1000km but the playable area is a fraction of that. At the very least, increasing playable areas (however way it may be done) would at least be a step in the right direction.

[@FrigidNorthAk]

Ya, they really need to spread out bases like they do in the big maps along with putting clusters of ground targets sprinkled around the map instead of having everything centrally located between opposing teams.

[@prex2000]

@@FrigidNorthAk Not just that. They need to make attacking convoys and other AI units more rewarding, as it is right now the only time people go for anything besides players is when most of a team is dead and the last guy is running.

[@zalseon4746]

0:09 that's actually the Su-47 Berkut, it was a post soviet prototype for fsw technology. The Su-27 Flanker has traditional swept back wings and the cockpit and nose are very different

[@WalvisYT]

Ahw man, that must havs slipped under the radar. At least the F-15 I show on screen at the same time is correct, I think.

[@majorborngusfluunduch8694]

​@@WalvisYTIts not. That looks like a render of the Silent Eagle concept.

[@WalvisYT]

@@majorborngusfluunduch8694 Nah, that 100% is an F-15A. Sorry, but you are wrong.

[@czechwtaviation]

real

[@remcodevries536]

i think they should increase the map size and give us a damn second spawn option on another place on the map so it isnt as predictable where the enemies will come from

[@Nman924]

What gajin should for arb is increase br and decrease player count and add 1v1, 2v2, and 3v3s I think that would fix top tier jets

[@EmbeddedWithin]

God, I remember you interesting me in SimplePlanes and now you’re doing content based on my favourite video game. As a American toptierer, your critiques are very interesting and I support them entirely

[@haydengoodship7752]

Cry w update

[@Ezeasy-jh7yi]

The problem with larger maps is that the only thing large is the distance of the airport, what I would do is putting more airfield and more objective, like, why always 4 bases, why not 6 or even 10 in the largest maps, so the planes spread and the objective spreads diversifying the battles making teamwork much more effective

[@CHILNKENthewing]

I cant be the only one who finds the fur balls fun and exciting even with irccm missiles

[@MikkoLehtovirta]

add 2-3 spawns on big map that way not that big furball forms since it naturally spreads the players that way maps have grew to the sizes where this is possibility.

[@AJ-2-Toke]

Brother, people have been saying 16v16 is way too much. Gaijin is ignoring us. I think they dont want to buy more servers or something. All the care is to make money. Untill people dont mass together again affecting their bottom line, they wont change much.

[@derangedoven7928]

they should add a “gun fight” mode and “BVR” mode and also keep the normal one

[@derricktherealone7554]

Am I the only one thinking about enduring realistic battles.

[@prodigy-hu6dy]

The other thing is the spotting mechanics designed for gameplay where you fly at 300mph. The game still doesn’t telegraph how missile spotting works. Sometimes you see the diamond sometimes you don’t. Tied into what you said about player numbers it becomes luck based if you look in the correct direction for the single second the incoming missile is highlighted. I shouldn’t have to google or go on forums to get an idea how this mechanic works.

[@piekorz.070]

i think that getting back to era of planes like f-86 sabre or mig -9 or even saab j32b when only turn fights were pure madness

[@shadowbonbon3]

Take away spotting, I feel it would help a lot if it was like ground RB, you can see your Allies but enemy planes can very easily hide and ambush you if they play properly it also gives radar more uses, however missile spotting still needs to be in the game, I think it’s to crucial to reliably see them to remove

[@WalvisYT]

@@shadowbonbon3 Terrible idea. Spotting is an essential part of ARB, without it a bunch of core elements of the gamemode get fucked; judging energy state, altitude, exact aircraft make, etc. Not to mention the obvious: mouse aim = can't always look around. Getting 3rd partied would become the norm. Dogfights would be impossible. If you are playing solo you'd get murdered by a 2 player squad 100% of the time. If anything, spotting should become better. Permanent spotting within 15km for top tier.

[@shadowbonbon3]

@@WalvisYT I disagree, energy state can be easily seen without it, just judge if they are getting farther or closer, or if neither is happening then it’s a very gradual increase of decrease in distance, and at higher tiers radar can do it for you, altitude isn’t really difficult if you already see them, and you can learn what aircraft look like, people in ground RB can recognize planes and tanks easily, it isn’t to hard after a little practice, and it would make missile spam significantly less common if you actually have to see them it’s harder to have 5 people lob off missiles if you have even decent positioning and much easier than if you have a massive read marker the entire enemy team can see. If you are really worried about 3rd partying then the minimap can have increased distance, where u automatically spot people.

[@WalvisYT]

@@shadowbonbon3 “energy state can be easily seen without it, just judge if they are getting farther or closer” If you believe this is true, then you fundamentally misunderstand how to judge an enemy’s energy state. “and at higher tiers radar can do it for you” Completely irrelevant if you are in a dogfight; won’t stop you from getting 3rd partied. “people in ground RB can recognize planes” GRB is not ARB. By the time you can confidently determine which EXACT variant of an aircraft you are looking at, it could very well already be way to late. I.E. MiG-21MF vs MiG-21Bis-SAU, etc. Just being able to say ‘oh that is a MiG-21’ is not enough information. “it would make missile spam significantly less common” 1. You don’t know that. That is a blind assumption. 2. You’d know your assumption is wrong if you’d played top tier sim. “If you are really worried about 3rd partying then the minimap can have increased distance” My brother in christ that IS spotting. The red enemy markers you see on the ARB minimap are there because they are spotted. Every single point anybody has ever mentioned in favour of removing the spotting system is either a blind assumption, or a misinformed opinion. No spotting in ARB would ruin the gamemode, period.

[@shadowbonbon3]

@@WalvisYT unless I’m completely mistaken energy state is determined by speed and altitude is it not? Of course someone could be moving in a way where they are gaining more energy but seem to be going closer but generally it’s not insanely difficult to read energy. Tbf I can’t really dispute the part about recognizing different variations of the same general type of plane, and Tbf I have only seen people play sim but never touched it myself so idk what goes on there. Also I should have made it clear but I feel the minimap should, under my proposed system should be separate from spotting, which, well wouldn’t exist obviously. But all in all I get what u mean and thx for explaining it to me

[@mixzus_1328]

I only know one thing"suffer"

[@combatant_cow4740]

Another solution to this problem would be having 2 seperate airfields to spawn in on different corners of the map and make it so that an equal amount of people spawn on each airfield, this could essentially cut the size of furballs by half without reducing the amount of players in a match, and to combat the problem of enemy and friendly airfields being too far away after everyone goes rtb. I would suggest to put a 3rd airfield somewhere in between the original 2 airfields but also closer to the centre of the map so that late game engagements don’t waste your time.

[@thebestoneevermade]

This actually used to be a thing

[@combatant_cow4740]

@@thebestoneevermade welp wish they would bring it back

[@Russertlog]

its frustrating at low brs cause you can just get pilot sniped or something

[@Kottery]

16v16 in top tier air RB is insanity. 16v16 at any tier is going to be pure chaos. I coulda swore when I started playing air RB/historical battles primarily back nearly ten years ago that I NEVER would see more than 8v8 or so and that was perfect when flying around in my Zeroes, Bf 109s, Corsairs, and such. With how fast-paced ~BR 10.0+ jets are they NEED to have smaller matches. I wouldn't even be against 4v4 on occasion. It'd clear the chaos and should get you matches fairly quickly as now more battles would be going on.

[@hoppingpony7411]

I think the only solution you guys really need is to introduce enduring confrontation as a regular gamemode in rb. I think it would be quite easy to shorten the length of match, while letting people to use lineups instead of single plane (just like in ground rb).

[@chost-059]

8v8 or 6v6 matches in top tier propeller fighters are really nice when they happen, 16v16 isnt just bad for top tier jets. smaller matches are just more fun and allow for a lot more teamwork or good 1v1's

[@joefrisbie485]

They need this for all modes in my opinion. Even air arcade is a cluster F*** of people. Makes it more challenging but less fun at the same time. Especially when you can't even get to your target

[@nutty125ify]

welcome to the gen 4.5 JETFIGHTER this is how irl fight

[@kokishorttail3471]

The funnest moment I have had in air rb in recent was getting a sim map where everyone completely spread out, and I managed to get three 1v1 dogfights back to back.

[@Ars_Illyrian]

They don't even need to reduce the player count per match. Just set a few spread out spawnpoints/airfields on the map per team, limit the entries per spawn/airfield to force players spreading out instead of all starting at one point, and let smaller fights occure across the map at the time. Right now there is just one freakin cluster in the map center. Also let people (if they want) stay in the match and ground pound what's left after the air dominance part. As it is in real life.

[@neilkigers8047]

Honestly I think that adding 1 airfield for both teams and placing all of them the way they would be in all corners of the map should help. There will be (hopefully) 2 clouds of players instead of 1 big cloud and all space of the map will be used, but other than that, I agree with you 100%

[@bagel_thunderYT]

This is just my own little thing that I think could help, making it so the same country isn’t on the same team. Everyone says that America is the best top tier but when it’s AIM-120 on AIM-120 it just becomes as shit show

[@gabrielronzani1784]

I absolutely agree with the solution proposed, I've played the dev server for the first time on this update and I've never had so much fun playing ARB, of course there are some difference but I mostly enjoyed the matches not being overcrowded.

[@tremephilot]

I have just made it to top tier with the F-15a, and I love the plane but everything you have said is why I havent played it since I unlocked the Aim-7m and just went back to playing props.

[@Mortician1750]

Radar Missiles would need to be severely limited. They're just too good, if you can't notch in time, you're screwed and Chaff is all but damn worhtless. When planes like the 27 or 15 can carry in excess of 4 or more REALLY good radar missiles, the radar spam is not going to stop. So whoever would have the best radar and radar missiles would dominate. Lessening the player count wouldn't do much to stop this.

[@benyrobert9501]

I fully agree, I remember the time when we play F86 agaist Mig 15, we was like 4 v 4 or 6 v 6

[@williamkline6450]

Now that I’m at the f14 and f15, I still find myself having so much more fun with planes in around br 5.0 than jets

[@wolfpack571]

I said it before and I'll say it again. 161v16 was made so top tiers premiums feel more powerful.

[@imran_huseyn]

Add respawning with higher SP cost than ground RB. I rarely play Air Realistic, I need to wait less to get to battle in Air Sim so I play that.

[@lehmann1808]

su27 (image of su-47)

[@janchovanec8624]

Hey, Good points you raise. Just one correction to make - Gaijin making larger maps was a reaction to community feedback, hence this one is on us, we asked for something we haven't thought through as a collective.

[@legostarwarskid5459]

we need mutiple spawn points.3 each side would spread us out better

[@SRDPS2]

Interesting test in Arcade (god I hate 2 guy have 6 death but still respawn in Stupid Air Superiority mode)

[@mr_clean91]

The best dogfights I've had have been in ground RB

[@DGCastell]

I was actually pondering about this last night, I'm still on tier V but I watch a lot of top tier content and missiles just seem too easy to get kills with at any range - flares/chaff seems so useless and now this video just confirms my theory.

[@AirsoftFaction]

Air RB Enduring Confrontation would be a good start.

[@tavolo2969]

I think what would be cool is actual missile jousting in 1v1 or 2v2, where u start at high altitude to shoot long range Fox1s, then end basically on the deck notching and hiding between mountains

[@joaquinlaurie6631]

I personally think that the huge problem with the 16vs16 could be solve using big maps with multiple spawns, to be exact at least 4 spawns away from each other. It could be more of Squadrons vs squadrons. And the dominant team wins the round. And with less targets around it could actually bring back the enjoyment of top tier and make use of the skills we’ll trained.

[@darmowy1239]

realistic above ballance in this game must be

[@gianniesposito2084]

Good point on it's not player skill but the missle capabilities because I've trained for hours against friends to be good at dogfighting, and it is no use because it all point and shoot

[@sageg58]

4 AMRAAM vs 6 R-27ER would've been fair

[@axelkilander3079]

I think it’s more fun now than it’s been in months

[@TonnyH21]

In gameplay i agree that air rb is not that fun but in grind it is waaay more better than ground rb, i was a grb player that stopped and realized how air rb grind is better..

[@WalvisYT]

Yeah, the GRB grind is terrible.

[@hellgates_javed6451]

They have to add 1v1 and solo pve missions this is all this game needs!

[@notsoundwave8392]

new walefish upload... its been 87 years...

[@jimmywojciechowski6057]

Gajin dont do shit to a thing after they add the thing into the game.

[@gamaltk]

THANK YOU for making this video. I used to exclusively play ARB, have pretty much fully switched to GRB because top tier ARB sucks. I play lower BR ARB with friends from time to time but still...

[@Panzerfanlol]

I actually agree with you alot and I was pondering the same ideas as you when I was playing this morning, I think the quickest way to implement this without JUST making the maps bigger would be to have 4 airfields, 2 on each team, spread to both 4 corners. If you play air rb you'll notice literally every match starts the exact same way, everybody takes off and goes off to the left then your team kill whichever idiot decided to go right this time and then they all turn in eventually and meet the other team in the middle - this might spread it out more so half goes left, half goes right and then a few go middle, but this does present the danger of things like if one side loses the BVR drastically and then the team that won that side goes to help the other side theres no way that the team that took the hit could win that. I would like larger maps with this layout but with increased rewards for attacking and defending ground targets, real sam sites and increased yield for air kills to balance out the time you spend in them, but we all know thats unlikely to happen. This larger map idea would also allow for gaijin to add more bomber-focused top tier aircraft, su25s which are basically pointless and useless rn could actually go and grind without being dogpiled, same with the a6 and a10s, later on if we have su34 (my dream jet) or larger strategic bombers (which i dont think would be good if added) we could also see them survive and maybe grind more if theres more space to get lost in. I do like your idea of decreasing the lobby sizes, but, the reason content creators support this idea is because they all have all the missiles and upgrades unlocked, they play for "fun" while people who are playing a specific jet they just unlocked to grind and who dont have BVR missiles or good performance upgrades will basically end up quitting the game out of frustration, it'll boil down to whoever has the most BVR missiles and not the skill of the pilots. You can of course fly low and evade radar to counter this etc but when the lobby is decreased so drastically even flying low for half an hour to fly vertical at some guy who has been looking for you at 10,000m for half an hour will notice the weird little dot approaching from his rear, and end up expecting this over time. Also decreasing lobby sizes will probably reduce income/xp/silver for players. Ultimately, I think a mix of all these ideas could be best, basically, just add more "game modes". Personally, I want the sim experience but with air RB controls for most of these too. The main issue will be friendly fire but hopefully they can add some proper IFF to the game.

[@cardboard9124]

they should add a planning phase, perhaps even an attack and defense mode. Attackers spawn in the air where they choose in a certain area, and thus can spawn near eachother to create formations. The defenders have to still take off and simply destroy all the enemies, the attackers have to destroy certain targets to win. Even without this new mode, they could atleast add a setup phase where you can choose where to spawn to create formations easily and protect bombers that usually spawn 5k feet above you

[@mursac1959]

Hell, all I want is a permanent RB Enduring Confrontation Event over in the Events tab. The no markers, RB controls, Enduring Confrontation events are the only time I've ever truly enjoyed air RB. The RB clusterfuck is the reason I'm a sim main. The combination of large maps AND staggered spawns (a side effect of people spawning on different airfields at different times) neatly solves both the population issue and the time-to-action issue, since players are somewhat more evenly spread out.

[@nimmo9306]

This is exactly why I've resorted to play air sim battles when 10.3 BR and above (with keyboard and mouse), dogfights and furballs might happen in different places around the map, places you can go into, or avoid, killing an enemy airceaft, even ground AI feels like an achievement, feels good. It might be expensive, but as you get better at it, you can make good profit from sim battles, even as a free to play player, so I truly recommend this.

[@JBS1681]

I got the F-15A on day two of the update and I was ecstatic to play it because I work on F-15’s for the military but it’s honestly not enjoyable at all. Both teams spamming SU-27/J-11/Gripen and the F-15 just can’t reliably compete but NOW I have to deal with an entire team of BVR-capable fourth gen jets that simply have better armaments than my plane (which is currently the best thing in the American air tree imo)

[@sinisterisrandom8537]

1 gamemode from air arcade I would love to see in ARB if it reworked for ARB is capture the airstrip. Where AI ground will still attempt to take it over however and this is the catch if you were to bomb it then defenses of the strip is now weakened giving your team the advantage to cease it quickly. It also gives bomber players an actual purpose. That feels beneficial. Although I do agree with several points in the video.

[@gustavomartins72]

I think they should do 8v8, bigger map, and enduring confrotation, so you could have a bigger incentive to taking air-to-ground weapons, thus reducing the number of missiles

[@wiracaturg.prakasa1524]

yes, I agree with this... at battle rating 12.3, maximum player in each team is 8 players. in bigger map. 16 v 16 on top tier jet nowday is just stupid.

[@HowIsAsh]

Honestly i agree. Personally i've been focused too hard on the smaller problems like the RWR being too accurate and pulse doppler being too weak, but those issues would be less impactful if the teams were just smaller.

[@gregorpajdlhauser2850]

We DCS players see a similar issue. The modern aircraft in that game dominate, and since there are so few of them, it's the same against same (say F-18 vs F-18). Modern fights are always "click a guy on the radar and hope your missile hits."

[@Shacon24]

That´s realistic BVR battles for you. In real life, it is more about denying air space than actually having to go in close for a kill. It is a very good bonus, but in the end the machine and pilot are far too expensive for the army. Essentially everybody is happy to shoot a few missiles and fly home.

[@gregorpajdlhauser2850]

That's why I play Cold War, it's much more fun @@Shacon24

[@addam6666]

I played 3.0 air RB like an hour ago and it was incredible fun. The slow immersive gameplay of low tier is what I miss the most in current War Thunder

[@MCshadr217]

4v4 and 8v8 for top tier would be nice, or even just more "wider" map (not length) and have squadrons of 4 being spawned at separate airfields, working together giving more RP with your squad.

[@TripodTheMan]

What me and some friends have been thinking about is more of making it like a game mode that makes you feel like your taking part in a large air campaing (like desert storm) where the games last longer (idk how long would be best) and letting people respawn and take airfields and advance the front of your lines making it like and enduring confrontation where you can actually take over AF's that are closer to the front as times goes on allowing people to play for longer and feel like those little efforts matter (example killing the bots and shooting down bot planes as well as covering your bots) Id also like to see the ability to respawn with SL like in Sim so if one of your squad dies early he doesnt have to just wait like 20min or so to play again so people would also not be able to just run full afterburner the whole time and actually survey the map and attack targets of importance to winning over just how many things can I kill in the shortest ammount of time to get my next plane becuase focusing on the grind makes it feel much longer so being able to plan with your friends and work together and feel like your taking control of the skies in an area would be a lot of fun.

[@VoltageTheWolf]

Need an enduring confrontation/week long wars for air. like foxhole or how heroes and generals used to be. Large maps with lots of things goin on. ground forces to support and AI or strategic targets to target. So theres something for everyone. the fighters can fight. the Multi roles and do mixed things and the strikers can do strike missions. let players choose how they want to play.

[@Ki0hazard]

after puting just over 500 hours into this game i have only played sim and arb. sim feels like arb, arb feels like arcade and arcade is something ells.

[@BarManFesteiro]

thanks for the video dude i agree a 100%, cant wait for nothing to change at all 😃

[@dragonoflocniroth]

The problem with increasing the map size is that all the stuff (Bases, ground targets, etc...) all stay in the same place and don't get spread out. Meaning everyone is going to flock to that area. Game modes like operation (on some maps) where random groups of enemies pop up encourages players to go to different areas of the map instead of just flying straight to the center.

[@RECORDER31]

just hope they will bring enduring confrontation from simulator battles to ARB

[@IsaacCarmichael]

They have really bigs maps but the last time I saw them used i was in pro planes. Where did those massive maps go? They they weren't just larger version of the original maps. They had missions like "intercept incoming bombers" and everything was in very different directions giving you many options as to how you would play the match tactically. I loved it

[@gergoturi7559]

I would argue for a 12v12. On the large maps that would allow some proper dogfighting (especially on operation maps), while still easily finding enemies to engage. Also as a first step to reduce player density it's a much safer aproach, so Gaijin and the players could monitor easily how things change.

[@gewitterhund3164]

Air-RB for Props and Air-RB für jets should be two completely separate game-modes with different mechanics, maps, spawns, etc. Whatever they do for the one, will make life for players of the other mode harder.