Warhammer 40k EPIC - The Best game Games Workshop Abandoned...

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[@Wulferic1]

I would love to see GW bring it back, especially with some of the newer factions - Necrons, Tau... would love to see them in Epic scale!

[@garfieldwithissuez]

You don't need them to bring it back you can get the rules online it's already out out just 3-D prints some models and cut games workshop completely out of the hobby.

[@TFZ.]

@@garfieldwithissuez Ooh... That... Is a very good idea! Thanks!!! :D

[@RickardLejonhjarta]

they are, its all but confirmed at this point Massive rumors from the inside

[@RickardLejonhjarta]

@@wolfie54321 well yeah it takes a long time to plan and produce

[@baalreginon1]

with the release of titanicus, aeronautica imperialis with the same scale, I think we'll have a new version of epic in the future

[@mrbeast85]

I used to play this when it was branded as 'Space Marine'. Yes it was one the best games. It was possible to field huge armies and play games that captured the vast sweep of an epic (pun intended) 40K battle. The rules were relatively simple, fast play rules that allowed the game top flow quickly and logically. A real shame that GW got rid of it.

[@shaggybaggums]

That closely followed by titan legions was the main game I played after years of just painting and the occasional bit of Space Hulk. I ended up with almost the entire Ultramarines chaper with the company colours on the rim of the shoulder pads. I had to paint so many damn toilet seat insignias.... I also had a couple of imperator titans, and a bunch of warlords, reavers, and warhounds painted up as Imperial hunters, inspired by images from the original Adeptus Titanicus photos. Then GW ruined it, especially with the godawful warlord titan models they came up with. I didn't dislike some of the imperial guard and eldar stuff though, and the longer bases as opposed to the square ones could be handy in buildings, I'll give them that. My gaming kinda petered out after that, the painting lasting a bit longer. Many happy times, even the arguments about whether if someone's units are far enough apart to avoid the barrage marker.

[@captainboyband8442]

...plus the box art for Space Marine is still one of the absolute best paintings of Space Marines in battle. ...still have my set. i should make my friends play it with me next time they come over.

[@Grom_the_Paunch]

Space Marine is the game I played when I started wargaming. Such a shame it's gone.

[@snazzy1995]

I’ve always wanted to get into warhammer (played lord of the rings and some war machine) but man if this was the scale I would jump in. I just don’t have the space for wargamming anymore but this with those terragon tiles you can rip full wars on the kitchen table

[@chestersleezer8821]

Yes but when they did kill it off it was around 20%-25% of their overall sales but this meant that gamers like me were moving away from normal 40K to focus on EPIC 40K. I have a lot of EPIC 40K; Eldar, Space Marine, Squats and Orks.

[@js463]

lets not forget that there was a epic scale game after "epic 40K" , Epic Armageddon, witch still has a community behind it with updates to the rules and tournaments

[@jamesmaybrick2001]

Epic Armageddon was utter perfection. Not just the perfect wargame BUT the perfect representation of fluff into crunch. Things worked like they should, forget the nonsense that is 28mm 40k. If you want/ed to see the books play out on the table then you go Epic Armageddon. True story (one i like to repeat at every oportunity), i had a detachment of terminators with a landraider or two get into rough ground in the middle of the battle field (sitting on the objective) and then proceed to hold out against an entire ork army. And pretty much beat it off. All while my Warlord titan and my enemies Mega Gargant dueled it out at long range. Goddam EPIC (pun intended).

[@uaputte]

Yes but is not as good as Epic 40k!

[@TheFifthHorseman_]

I was involved with the EA community, a long time ago when it started out. Wonder if some of my old pixel art proxy sheets are still around

[@jamesmaybrick2001]

@@uaputte Maybe. I played it. I have no memories of it whatsoever. I do remember EA. So there is that.

[@commanderstorm8874]

What models does it use?

[@MrAuggiedoggy313]

YES Dave should do more Epic 40k retro minis so he can quench his Epic nostalgia

[@criticalbros6514]

I love how the sponsor just upgraded the tiles from heroquest lol

[@Shadowquacker]

This makes me feel old; I remember it being called Space Marine and still think of the five-in-a-row configuration for infantry bases as the “new” layout!

[@Puschit1]

I've seen the five in a row for the first time now and think it's stupid^^ I mean, unless rules have changed, infantry units don't have an orientation, so you would like the base to be either a square or circle. They can't fall over, are easier to grab, easier to put in formation and I also think they are better suited for close combat.

[@Shadowquacker]

@@Puschit1 The classic infantry bases were square, arranged like the dots on the 5 side of a D6; they still had a fixed orientation and it did make units easier to move, but it was much harder to paint when based and the rear units were obscured by the forward ones, so the five-in-a-row configuration is sensible :)

[@Puschit1]

@@Shadowquacker I know, I still have them. And of course you paint them before glueing them to the base. The minitures may have a fixed orientation, but what I meant is that the unit itself doesn't have an orientation ruleswise. Tanks have for firing arcs and rear armor modifiert but infantry doesn't, which is why a square or circle is the logical choice. A straight line does suggest an orientation and it actually matters how you place them because they may or may not occupy space for other units depending on if you place them horizontally or vertically, it might also mess with LOS. All of which I think the square bases were better. Also, remembering back, I think there are a few models that might not fit next to each other in a row. The X pattern assures maximum space for all models in all directions.

[@mwnciboo]

Hahahaha True

[@garywhitehouse9682]

@@Shadowquacker I painted mine on the sprue then transferred them to the square bases.

[@samuelgowers1035]

That space marine lander looks just like any UEF transport from the 2007-8 supreme commander. The way it carries its tank payload externally is so rugged and cool.

[@moffxanatos6376]

Thought the very same thing when I first played Supreme Commander, reminded me of the Space Marine Lander.

[@AvoidTheCadaver]

I still have 10s of thousands of pts of Eldar, marines and orks from the predecessor and epic 40k. Watching waves of bombers and fighter escorts flying in to paste the field was always terrifying. But seeing an eldad vampire raider land disgorging exarchs and an avatar into close combat was the height of fear. Edit: As an old timer that played the original Epic (space marine and titan legions), one of the peeves about Epic40k was that the game stripped out all the uniqueness of each miniature. In SM/TL, every model had its own capabilities (for example, vehicles suffered -ve armour save modifiers if hit from the rear or side, artillery could fire indirectly if a friendly unit could see the target but suffered from scatter, eldar grav tanks could hide behind cover and use their grav engines to do pop up fire attacks, making them vulnerable to counter attack) In Epic40K, all of that uniqueness was stripped away. Units deployed in detachments which got a "firepower" rating, or an Anti tank special attack, and combat revolved around counting up your firepower and consulting a table for the number of dice to roll. AT attacks were done separately. In effect, your combat detachments were about the size of large 40K armies and an entire 40K round of combat was settled in 1 dice roll. The firepower system was later adapted into Battlefleet gothic where it worked a lot better.

[@stephenhumphreys9149]

Yeah - Space Marine (the second edition box) was what got me into GW. And the crazy thing was it was hugely popular - it was the main game played at my local GW, I went to a Games Day and it was probably the most popular game for people there too - I even saw a news article about GW and they used Epic as the splash photo. And the new edition's miniatures looked amazing, I was really excited. But like you say, they just killed it stone dead. Some of the ideas were actually really god - anti-infantry and anti-tank firepower was something the base game definitely needed as infantry was kind of crap for most armies, and they did need to improve close combat, but making you have to stop and use a table to work out what your shooting did, or making your detachments all have to move as a big blob just ruined it in most people's eyes.

[@AvoidTheCadaver]

@@stephenhumphreys9149 Some of the other things were definitely in need of a revamp. Like being able to strip a titan's void shields with space marine devastator fire. But like you said the wholesale move to detachment movement totally removed any sort of tactical significance and uniquness of the units. I mean, who moves an entire artillery division in one go *in formation*. The problem with base infantry was that they were little more than WW1 style meat shields. You sent them in waves to assault a position held by other base infantry and then once you took the position massed enemy counterfire just hosed them down giving away huge amounts of VPs. Terminators were cool though. I sent in death wing company to assault an objective supported by a chaplain and a apothecary. The added CC bonus and extra saving throw saved the day. Makes me want to look into Net Epic Armageddon and resurrect my armies

[@Calixtus]

@@stephenhumphreys9149 Yo, are you the Stephen Humphreys from Ireland? We know each other online before you blocked me. Dude, don't do that, all I asked is if you knew where your Northwest Warriors online forum is, I need it for a book I am writing. Do help me get the website address, thanks!

[@WargameCulture]

The original version was far superior

[@simongunkel7457]

Epic:Armageddon, which actually is Epic at its best is definitely worth a go. Each unit feels unique, each army feels completely different to play and play against, you have a much better sense of where the strategic errors you made lead you to lose or which errors your opponent made that allowed you to win than with pretty much any GW game and I'd argue that makes it the best game not just by GW, but a contender for the bast tabletop wargame ever. E40k sort of scared away most SM/TL players and EA being a fanatic thing and never receiving much love (according to what Jervis told me at a GD, GW couldn't justify the cost of plastics for most armies and the few options for new minis out there are generally 3rd party). There is Net:epic, which is pretty much TL/SM, but if you haven't played EA, definitely give it a go first.

[@pistol0grip0pump]

I love watching these old school kits being built and painted, I remember loving just looking at the Epic sets, the concept of having so many tanks, land raiders and such was just awesome to 9 year old me :)

[@khyronkravshera7774]

I have the very first Epic scale Great Gargant sold in North America. I went up to the Games Workshop store in BC the day they released and bought one of the two they had received. They said it was the first one sold in NA because the Baltimore stores (the only other store at the time) shipment was delayed and they wouldn't have it for a few more days.

[@kulrigalestout]

I remember Warmaster, the Fantasy version. Never played it because nobody else could think of anything but 40K, but I had a blast painting my tiny Tomb Kings. They may look intimidating to paint properly, but they're surprisingly easy and satisfying.

[@philcarrington830]

Interest in Warmaster has grown massively over the last couple of years, fuelled to a large extent by a huge range of superb 3D printed figures and updated rules. Well worth checking out.

[@williammurteyjr.5073]

Warmaster was is very fondly remembered and I played it to huge extent over any other 6 mm game at that time. Little bit of trivia, warmaster is the basis for the rule set for flames of war.

[@MoltenPlastic]

I was looking for this! Warmaster is even less remembered

[@clocksmcgee123]

I definitely recommend getting a game of 4th ed Epic Armageddon in. Netepic Armageddon has been keeping it alive. It's kind of ridiculous how much it blows 40k out of the water with game play.

[@sergefabrizio]

I loved Epic Armageddon, can't it didn't get a mention in this vid, as although it re-used a lot of the original Epic minis, all of the Space Marine and IG tanks got upgrades to reflect the current designs.

[@Digitalfiendscom]

I've always loved small scale wargames and dioramas ... there is just something about them that's quaint but also forces you to fill in the details with your imagination. I also love the fact that you can have sprawling boards to battle on or go with a small set-piece that fits on a coffee table but still feels epic. Now, with 4K and 8K resin printers, you can get some insanely detailed "epic" scale minis and terrain. With so many great games out there now, unless you live in an estate home, space can become an issue at 28-32mm scales (especially factoring in terrain). Epic scale is just awesome - a whole army practically fits in a moderately sized bits-box. :)

[@Fierrum]

Everyone here is making those HUGE models and dioramas, but there so much fun when the tiny models come into play.

[@your1friendlyvillain]

I’m so early you haven’t even started cutting models to make them into gaming tables

[@sirbobulous]

My preference is for the edition after Epic 40k. Epic Armageddon! Still has an active competitive scene in the UK, EU and Australia.

[@djdoug242]

You've confused the editions here; in Epic 40,000 (3rd ed 1997) the detachments were pretty freeform and you could certainly include a single whirlwind with some infantry (re: 2 minute mark). The detachments in this edition were designed to give you the 'feel' of an entire 40k army with the ability to mix and match what you deemed appropriate.

[@zephroc9697]

Exactly

[@triangulan]

I actually think that was one of the problems with Epic 40,000. The army lists were so open that it was a little hard for new players to know "What should I be including in a detachment?" Sure, you could probably work it out with experience, but for someone without experience it just wasn't clear where to start.

[@chestersleezer8821]

It was GW's design to make it so you could not build certain units so that you would be forced to buy additional box sets.

[@triangulan]

@@chestersleezer8821 eh? OK, I don't know the unit compositions for 2nd edition, but in Epic 40,000 the units you made were incredibly free-form and you could likely make a bunch of formations with all the stuff in the box sets, and when they did Epic: Armageddon the units were generally released in packs that matched unit sizes.

[@zephroc9697]

@@triangulan Yeah Epic 40K was super free form. The other thing to remember though was that the single sprue battle force boxes in Epic40K were just re-packaged versions of the Epic 2nd ed ones. You used to get 5 sprues to a box back then, so if the number didn't add up quite right per base I wouldn't be surprised. Not exactly by design mind.

[@jfridy]

Epic 3rd edition was an amazing set of wargaming rules, it stripped away a lot of the extra fluff and focus on letting you fight large battles. Among my friends, the Warhammer players other than me HATED it, while my Wargamer friends LOVED it, praising its speed and need for real tactics.

[@CellHeart]

It's been said that it was the edition Jervis Johnson and Andy Chambers liked the best as it most rewarded tactical play and was the least reliant on dice rolls for success of any of GW's games

[@elysianfieldstarot]

Wow, that took me right back to all day campaigns against my brother, my Bad Moonz against his Blood Angels. Literally epic battles, swinging from despair to elation as the battle swung in each other’s favour. Classic game

[@blacktemplarbrotherlucius1935]

I'd like Battlefleet gothic to be bought back as it could be great for epic narrative play, like in the middle of battle space marines board a ork ship to destroy some weapon batteries, you pause the fleet battle you move over to warhammer 40k 9th edition

[@Tom_Quixote]

Or Space Hulk

[@wedidntstartthefire1]

It is fun. We occasionally play old Gothic sort of tweaked with house rules

[@jeffwertman184]

This actually was my introduction to Warhammer 40k. I played and created an army of Tyranids (finding the rules was a challenge), using what we knew as the 5th edition Codex. I also got to use the Bio-Titans. Our group had a Space Marine player, one with custom Tau miniatures, a few Eldar players, two Imperial Guard factions. I had to move away, but still keep the Tyranid miniatures. Some of them are custom, but a small set are as close to the original as I could find.

[@zeog303]

2nd edition Epic is where it's at! I remember being excited as hell as a kid and somehow managing to buy the big box.... I was so disappointed my local game shop let me return it. Actually during the shutdown did a bunch of painting and organizing..... Even though I'm in Chicago not like I know anyone who plays : )

[@dennistravels4430]

It's so cool to see the older sets being put together

[@SeraphimKnight]

I've seen people play regular games of 40k with epic scale models and I found that an amazing solution for portability and being able to play games basically anywhere since you don't need a massive surface.

[@dcaffran]

The detachments used to organise your army in 1997 were very flexible. You were able to field different detachments based on the same army list detachment option. Your tactical squads were selected in pairs of two units (two bases with five tiny dudes each). Each of those squads had the option to have a Rhino. The tank squadrons were usually in sizes of 1 to 3 tanks for squadron. The minis were enough for a lot of legal options. There's nothing "illegal" in a sprue that has 2 Land Raiders, 2 Whirlwinds and 4 Rhinos 🤷‍♂️ Also, two marine infantry sprues was enough for 6 tactical squads (12 bases), 2 assault squads (4 bases), 2 devastator squads (4 bases) plus a captain base, a librarian, plus terminator, scout and bike squads. If you were counting, the first 10 squads I listed are the exact composition of a standard battle company of the space marines. All that was legal in the 97 version...

[@TabletopTime]

Mystery Solved - Dave has discovered that while labelled Epic 40k - The rules he was reading was actually a PDF of Epic Armageddon! Blast! Good catch

[@dcaffran]

@@TabletopTime that makes sense 😁

[@jonbauml225]

Epic is the game that introduced me to 40k. I'll watch anything epic related

[@AlanGChenery]

Once used second hand epic models to make a magnetised portable 40k in a tin. (The lid was the battlefield using magnetic terrain to attach a printed map) with storage for rules and armies in the tin base. Theory was that you could just put the lid on and the magnets would be strong enough to keep everything in place, so you could play on a train etc. Only ever had about two games using it. Pieces tended to move when the lid was on, and the issues with pieces glomping together if you weren't careful when moving into melee were worse than expected. And then the tin got bent and everything was ruined. Lol.

[@kyleadelaide]

So I wasn't the only one to use them for Travel 40k

[@yellheahtris]

oh lord, these take mini to a completely different level! And you managed to write legible text on them! I'd be curious to take a look at the older catalog and just older models in general! I'm incredibly new to everything, so seeing where it all started sounds like a lot of fun!

[@Harry-cj3yu]

I love that as I write this comment, GW is in fact releasing a heresy era epic game. Love that you've called it

[@nathangriffiths6218]

I spent many, many hours playing games of Epic as a teenager in the 90s, starting with the original epic Space Marine game. I had an Eldar army and my friend had Space Marines and Imperial Guard. I loved the scale of it, it really was epic. I can't believe GW abandoned this format.

[@dekai7992]

Here, I have to disagree: 🧐 Obviously, Battlefleet Gothic is the best discontinued GW game. For its time, it is exceptionally well designed, and its mechanics perfectly convey the theme of massive sailing ships in space exchanging devastating broadsides. Also, it pretty much single-handedly defined how spaceships of all the major factions in the 40k universe look and work. But Epic is certainly up there, too. Great video!

[@boneshaman8912]

The epic miniatures worked well with Battletech. We used the Rhinos for APCs.

[@timmknott233]

I would love to see more like this. But i just keep coming back to the idea of building a modern list using epic scale minis and 3d prints for the unavailable newer stuff and playing like that, it makes transporting your army easy and a game could be played on a coffee table or something like that. Anyway, rant over. Thank you for the pleasant video

[@matthiuskoenig3378]

And you could use the 28mm armagedon rules on 6mm minis too

[@CrusaderSports250]

Always thought it would be interesting to play epic with 28mm rules, huge armies sweeping across the battlefield, 20 or 30 thousand points or more, it would have been glorious!, a war master directing the overview whilst playing battle fleet Gothic and four or five generals following his lead but having to react to the gameplay as it ran, all played over a weekend, I would use simultaneous move to remove some of the first move benefit or give away, have played that in 28mm and it makes for some interesting game play☺.

[@sniperlemming]

This makes me want to make 40K Dioramas...just little ones you can stick on a book shelf...maybe a set of Book ends, like two opposing armies facing off.

[@alwoodsmodellingmayhem]

I used to love this game!!! This was the first box set I bought from GW oh so many.....decades ago, and Titan Legions. This video brought back so many nostalgic memories. I think I had every army that was released, Orks, Marines, Chaos, Squats, Tyranids, Eldar, Imperial Guard....I would love for this to come back, but possibly only to build and paint the minis again and have them back in my collection.👍👍👍👍

[@marcbennett9232]

the original space marine was the first war game i ever purchased. i was way too young, set it aside a couple years, started playing around 12 and never looked backed. enjoyed it greatly.

[@yourgoodliness]

The slow zoom in at the end of that sponsored segment was priceless. Oh also the game seems really neat too!

[@amsfountain8792]

I have two armies, Space Marines and Eldar, fully painted. This is one of the best specialist game GW produced back then. Epic armageddon has the most used rules.

[@jasonb6860]

Individual models in Epic were neat for being recognizably what they were depicting on such a ludicrous scale, but a small army looked insignificant on the table. Visually, the game shined with huge engagements (like each army doubling or tripling the size of the ones included in the 97 box game, since it *is* only a starter box). And the ruleset helped with that hugely. Unlike normal 40k, Epic's rules (post 1997) were suited to large scale engagements that ran smoothly and had lots of tactical decisions (hence why the rules simplified a lot of the units; it was intended for armies to actually have a ton of units). Unfortunately Epic players preferred the more detailed, skirmish sized engagements with their tiny units from 1st edition. But those games made your units look like they were engulfed by the table, rather than filling it up. Alas!

[@LegitBacKd00rNiNJa69]

idk about you but so many wargames feel claustrophobic. Its Like a company of infantry dueling it out on a foot-ball field equivalent table. Artillery beinng long range shooting 3 feet. Epic was nice in that the range and scale of the enviroment also was "epic"

[@jasonb6860]

@@LegitBacKd00rNiNJa69 i can see that beign the case. Although with epic it would take some absurdly large armies to make your average kitchen table sized battlefield feel claustrophobic lol! Them tinies are tiny!

[@MrCarlBackhausen]

SO COOL! I would absolutely buy this! You could field MASSIVE WARS like in the the Horus Heresy books ones! Like, i could see them do this for every war front in those book! The battle for Mars comes to mind. With its MASSIVE Titan legions and the Hive city large battles of fielded mechanicus units and Space Marines! This could absolutlely be sooo DAMN COOL to do a big lineup of! But if there isn´t more people like me that are interested in these things, then i absolutely get that it doesn´t get made. But i could abaolutely see myself buying and play this if it made a comeback. I love the charm of it too. The mini, mini minies are so damn gimmicky and charming that they almost sell themselves in my opinion.

[@colinnelson4080]

3:50 I love that one Space Marine’s expression, it looks like he’s afraid of what he’s shooting at!

[@EpochDarkleaf]

That or the obvious Scarface tracing!! 😆

[@carlotemplo5281]

@@EpochDarkleaf Yep! I love this era where they would blatantly have art that was obviously copied from stills of movies or actors.

[@georgerlopez1984]

Ive been 3d printing scaled down versions of space marine alternative models to make them really small, its so cool to see them in such a tiny scale. Not to mention i save a lot of resin that way too

[@mightyblowstudio]

Pretty pumped to see the return of Epic via Legionies Imperialis! 😃

[@stevenwayne3791]

Great stuff! Would love to see more EPIC content!

[@mtvjacknife816]

Yes that would be very Fun! Would love to see a battle report of this game!

[@seankane8628]

Mine have been repurposed into Battltech/Mechwarrior troops giving the O'Choda Special Forces their own proprietary medium and heavy battle armors while the Rinos and Land Raiders have become the chassis for SRM and LRM carriers.

[@lylesmith6491]

If you could print off the infantry and ships, the scale of the battles would be amazing. I always thought it was a cool idea to combine space combat and ground assault. Calling in orbital bombardment and reinforcements is just 🤘

[@thesadleviathan5416]

I picked up an Epic scale Dominatrix for a painting contest and I utterly adored painting it. It has a weird janky charm to it and the detail on the metal mini was pretty impressive

[@MarquisLeary34]

Epic scale was my first introduction into WH40k along with the first Space Hulk. Fielded a combined Squat/Imperial Guard 1812 overture army (I didn't know that kind of build had a name till long after I stopped playing). Thinking about it being abandoned still makes me sigh and weep just a little.

[@shanecarter8174]

God this brings back memories! it was actually the most balanced game that Games Workshop ever produced!

[@khublaklonk4480]

I used to have so much fun with my squat trikes playing Space Marine / Adeptus Tiganicus. Eggshells armed with hammers, and short hammers at that, but terrifying when the survivors opened up with their twin meltas. That squat box was something I don't think you'd see today. It was a little army in a box, designed to genuinely provide you with what you needed, great for a skint teen like me. All I had to add was some artillery and a couple of titans. Happy days.

[@AndorianBlues]

iirc I used a converted Epic scale Great Gargant as an Ork dreadnought way back in early 3rd edition 40K. The idea was the Mekboyz got the scale on the blueprints messed up.

[@SteefPip]

I was lucky enough to see a few games of this played back in the 90s, was a really interesting game, fun to watch. I miss old Necromunda........

[@porcelain_throne_godna3131]

I used to play this in the late 90's. I had massive Armies of Space Marines, Orks, Eldar and Squats (Dwarves). My second ex and I would spend inordinate amounts of time painting the figures. The game was incredibly fun, but it was a massive time-sink. For a regular game to be played on the table-top you would need to commit 6 to 8 hours. If I recall correctly, that covered about 4-5 turns. I gave all of my Epic stuff to my nephew a few years ago. His Mother just advised me a few months ago that he now works at a Games Workshop store. Go figure!

[@TomasQuinones]

The 1989 Space Marine was GREAT. The infantry bases were square and the troops were in sort of X formation like you would find 5 on a D6. Between my friends and I, I think we had fielded all available by 1996 or so. We stuck all sorts of stuff on Rhinos to make Whirlwind tanks, Predators, and Vindicators. So many arguments about rules and if psykers could use their powers from inside tanks. The squad stands also had a hole in them to stick a flag along with some stickers of each of the chapters. So many late nights and missed homework assignments so I could get my armies ready for the next big battle. One of the last huge battles we held included over 1,000 units....Marines, Orks, Squats, Titans, Eldar, Imperial Guard. The Tyranids, Necron, and Tau didn't even exist yet.

[@beefy256]

Very cool video. I've only been into 40k for about 8 months and into tabletop games for 6 years or so. Seeing models from the history of GW, especially at this insanely tiny scale, is really cool.

[@keyring4758]

I wae around 6/7 and i loved Epic 40,00, me and my older brothers had loads and still got a load, including my metal Warlord Titan. Great video man brought back some good memories.

[@Nigelius]

Getting some real nostalgia fro this vid, although I never played epic I still saw all the minis in white dwarf. You did a really great job with those tiny minis!

[@printedjester4284]

Pretty common back in the day that GW had odd amounts of units in a box for epic.... Meant you had to buy 2 or 3 boxes to make full units.

[@Sakura_Matou]

Battle Fleet Gothic and Epic 40k both live on in Dropfleet and Dropzone commander. It is heavily inspired by Halo and CnC Aestetic wise. Also these games were both made by former GW employees.

[@keithcraig506]

My friends and I LOVED Epic 40k. For about 2 to 2 1/2 years, at least once a month, 4 or 5 of us would take over one of the bays in my friend's parent's garage, set up a 4' x 8' table (which we build specifically for this purpose) and have these HUGE, dare I say EPIC, battles that took anywhere from 4 to 8 hours (sometimes more) to play. More than a few times a Saturday game ran over into Sunday. Fun times...

[@FowaDeLuz]

Do a deep dive on the catalogue! Man, so many nostalgic childhood memories of browsing through games companies catalogs like GW, Wargames West, and others. I'd love to see those again!!

[@borisketou3177]

We played "Space Marine" over and over during the 90's on a 4x2 meters table, and, pun intended, it was EPIC (sometimes 8 or more people around the table). Tons of troops (with the square bases at the time), vehicles, titans, squat trains, giant cannons, each unit had its own reference card, it was a lot of fun. Strangely when Epic got released, we never played it, to have to replace the square bases with the long ones was too tedious, and we didn't have our large table anymore... Memories.

[@KnightYellow]

I remember being about 10 or 11 when Epic came out and my mate brought in a box of space marine infantry to school and we spent all day messing about with them in class instead of doing whatever it was we were meant to be doing. Good times.

[@shotcall9690]

Nice painting. You forget to mention EPIC ARMAGEDDON, the last and best Epic games, even the best GW rules ever made... Its still played and supported today by many people in many countries :)

[@B1ackSwordVids]

I always thought it would be cool to make a “Travel Edition” Kill Team for long car rides or plane trips using Epic modes

[@unblessedcoffee1457]

I feel like Epic gave people the chance to experience armoured engagements, use artillery and so on, whereas now, people just can't try that without spending huge money on vehicles that are very large.

[@Puschit1]

Which is probably why the didn't support this format much. Too affordable. When I started playing these kinds of games I could buy a full unit of 20-24 models (regular size) for about 40 DM which is about 20€ and adjusted to inflation about 40€ again. Blood Bowl miniatures were about 25DM for a full team and 16DM for a blister pack of 4 star players. And we are talking METAL miniatures! At some point they started selling out, becoming greedy, watering games down, releasing new editions that did changes for the changes sake and the miniature prices EXPLODED. Now I payed twice as much for half the numbers and all of them were PLASTIC. But for some reasons that I still don't understand GW-players were so brainwashed that they refused to play with anything but the official model. Even in friendly games (I can undertstand to a certain degree if it is about tournaments).

[@filipinorutherford7818]

I loved this game. Basically Brigades or Divisions of futuristic armies going at each other. Titans were the bomb, i had a Warlord Titan which wrecked everything before it. The infantry were still formidable. Whole detachments would arc up on one titan and gradually over a few turns its shields would be wittled away to expose the armour of the Titan. It was like ants taking down a giant. From the Titans perspective you either ignored the infantry and tanks and focus on rival titans or you focussed on them. The game really showed where the fighting was the thickest by showing blast markers. Each blast marker looked like a 3D explosion with a larger marker representing 5 tokens. You would get one for each hit you receive to represent suppression, casualties etc etc. For the units to do anything they first had to roll for blast markers and try and equal or greater than the amount of blast markers to be able to give orders. Failing a blast marker check the unit could do nothing but try to reorganise itself and remove blast markers which represented leaders rounding up or getting a grip on the situation. They also had the air war represented with transports, fighter bombers, fighters, orbital strikes and orbital drops. In response you had AAA guns and missiles or detachments just pointing their guns in the air and shooting at the planes. Artillery was represented as well. Another thing I liked was the way you could randomise the creation of the terrain on your map depending on what type of world you were on. You could be on death worlds, alien worlds, ice worlds and lava worlds. This would all affect how the game was played. Just as I turned 18 and started to work and get money they stopped making this game which really annoyed me because I was going to create a combined Imperial Guard Army with Spacemarine and titan legion support.

[@hamsterminator]

As a kid I used to carry a few space marine epic tanks purely as toys, as being single boxy plastic items they were actually pretty durable. I still think back fondly to an old land raider I used to carry about on holiday.

[@shadowcaptaincain]

I would love to see this and Warmaster return. I know there are fan-made rules for Warmaster, and I'm working on High Elves army for it. But to see it picked up officially again would be nice.

[@notThatguy_883]

Oh jeez those guys are so tiny, I can't imagine the most likely painstaking process of applying the little details with paint

[@AvoidTheCadaver]

It's hours upon hours of work. I used to field orks and naturally they needed to be chaotically painted. One stand of 5 infantry took up to 40min to 15yr old me. These days, with spray primers and contrast/speed paints I could probably smash out an entire clan of several dozen stands in the same time

[@jimofthenorth8090]

Tell me about it. I once converted a bunch of Harlequins at this scale. Probably the most difficult model making I did in my time tt gaming.

[@ococerello]

It all depended on how you painted them. If not painting them like they were wh40k miniatures, painting two dozen tanks on a good level on some hours wasn't that hard, even back then.

[@johnscarr70]

I have a couple of factions which are a mix of 2/3mm and 6mm for walkers and heavy armour from GZG. it's a coat of spray paint and a wash and after basing, I'm done. The models look good. Most reservations about the scale are based on people trying to add unnecessary levels of detail making the end result cartoonish. It's worth the time and effort to get the feel of a real battle. I had SM in the early 1990s and I painted them with brushes and acrylics. What was I thinking?

[@andrewnorth1471]

Just watched this video. Never really played 40k, but i did play Epic! My friends and I hung around GW in Beckenham, England and played lots of Warhammer, Fantasy Roleplay, Armagedon, Man o War and Epic. At home we would have armies each side of the living room that were 4 metres long, taking 1hr per side per turn, as we limted ourselves. I even fielded 70 Lemon Russ tanks in one game. I still have many of painted mini's including a base coat finished imperator titan. Terminators were the hardest to obtain, as i believe you got 3 per pack and needed 5 to use them.

[@Bluu_Bunni]

honestly the idea of this size of figure really brings out the scale of some of the creatures or mechs involved in the scenarios. it's too bad that they never continued, i could see a version of 40k where you would use the 6mm size models for basic units, a regular sized model for your commander, and larger models for things like mechs or massive creatures, like some of the tyranids or chaos creatures

[@wagonmaker5509]

i have 13500 models in epic (bases) in space marines (5 complete chapters), eldar 2 craft worlds, orks, squats, 3 chaos armies, 4 imperial guard armies, tau, tryanids and nekrons. I have not missed playing epic as i still play it for over 30 years now.

[@TylerProvick]

I loved Epic 40k, but really I just like 10mm scale and the look of the blast markers as suppression. I'd love a non-GW version of this. Apparently that's Dropship Commander which I've always kinda ignored.

[@CarlosRodriguez-dd4sb]

I think this and Man O War were some of their best games

[@thomaskurz5617]

You forgot Epic Armageddon, it tried to bring Epic in Line with the 3rd Edition Rules and lore. Like many GW Side Projects it got a lot of support for the first few months with new models comming out, was then shoved of to the Specialist Games, got support from Fanatic Magazine and some great Models from Forgeworld. I remember the 6mm mulitpart Spacemarine. A 6mm Copy of the then plastic sprue Marine. Think you could only buy it on convention and as a single figure. .

[@tatianaorowska5736]

Happily, there is also another great game in a smaller scale (10 mm) - Argatoria. It's a fantasy wargame with barbarians and reptilians, and all miniatures for this game are hand-sculpted and cast in a great quality! I truly recommend it to those of you who are interested in the small scale games. The rules are super easy and very dynamic, but the armies allow many fun combinations :) If you want to check it out, it was released by Spellcrow.

[@R1V-3RS]

that sponsor just makes me want a tabletop time video on heroscape

[@AeromatterYT]

They've already got the scaled down models for Aeronautica & Titanicus, that'd be a great starting point to bring back epic!

[@Edsshed]

My first delve into GW was epic. Got the game box for Christmas one year after mentioning the game in front of my mother. Ended up with all my cousins and family ily playing. I had one of them old tin biscuit containers full of khorne troops, my brother had irks and my cousin had marines. Best years of my life, we used to play whenever we could. Just used the floor. It was great. I hope they relaunch it cause if they do, I'm in lol

[@shanefrancis34]

3rd edition was easily my favourite due to the simplicity of the rules. The support for this game by the community is amazing, I have some great printed Dreadnaughts and Thunderbolts, if GW brought it back god knows how much they would charge. Astounding paint job and a great video.

[@ClarissaMeyer]

6mm scale, so tiny! Dare I even call them cute? Nice teaser there in the background. Jen's look was gold. If you find more of these I would love seeing them being painted

[@Grzybasek]

This was an awesome video! Dunno why, as I never played 40k, but it took me back and made me feel like I was 10 again.

[@PhotoReactionVideos]

Fantastic episode! Thank you for all your efforts in putting this together. Space Marine (Epic) is still very dear to my heart even though I sadly sold off by my armies in 1998 ☹️ Blood Bowl and Epic are my all time favorite GW games, without question! If they brought back Epic I would preorder it straight away!

[@GoblinGreen2021]

Love this vid! I used to play epic and seeing the printed models make it look like a playable game again. Lovely looking army!

[@CloakingDonkey]

the idea of one box having to contain everything you need for a given unit is pretty new in GW terms. A lot of boxes from this time just featured an arbitrary amount of models. Like most 4th and 5th edition cavalry boxes for WHFB contained 4 models. It wasn't weird that you needed more of these battle group boxes and ended up with spares.

[@CLaw-tb5gg]

I stopped playing 40k in about 1994 and started drifting back to the hobby a year or two ago and one of the first things I thought was "what happened to Epic?". It seems perplexing that they dropped it. Epic was incredible fun. Given how absurdly, well.. epic the 40k universe is it felt like the only way the true ridiculous scale of it all was ever really captured on the tabletop.

[@Dwarfman01]

1994 -1997 I was in High School. And among us geeks and gamers Epic was all the rage. There were enough of us, that it would have been possible to put together a proper competition with a league and everything. Alas we just wanted to have fun and weren't thinking about things like that. I played orks. I still have that Mega Gargant somewhere too! Great times...

[@hyperscale8421]

Great video dude , cool to see these older models but i never realised how small they are

[@davidcashin1894]

I would also LOVE to see Warmaster, both Fantasy and Historical come back. The rules are fine I need MINIs

[@rolanddutton]

I loved this game back in the day. I remember the squads being square based though. We used to play huge games with Titans, Gargants etc. Literally epic. It played much better than vanilla 40k and the boxes were great value.

[@TigerStyleFanMIZ]

I live for Jen's cameos! 😂

[@generaldissapointment1191]

Something I've always wondered about is how this game sold in relation to Battletech, since I get the feeling it was designed to compete with it. Sadly, even though I lived through this era I genuinely have no idea how well Battletech was doing in the 90s, but I remember it being pretty big in my hobby store. It wouldn't surprise me to learn that '97 was a good year for FASA so Games Workshop chose to stop competing with them and consolidate their stranglehold over the 28mm sci-fi market. Pure speculation on my part though.

[@AvoidTheCadaver]

back in those days, GW would release stand along systems along side their flag ship warhammer 40k and warhamemr fantasy games. So you had things like Talisman, Space fleet, space hulk, adeptus titanicus (original), space marine/titan legions, epic 40k, blood bowl, necromunda, inquisitor, etc etc. None of these side games were meant to last for more than a handful of years as they took development time away from their mainline games. Epic lasted longer than most if you combine SM/TL and Epic40k as they were both 8mm scale

[@yolandria]

@@AvoidTheCadaver 6mm was the scale. If you want to call it that. With the bigger models being closer to 3mm as they got bigger. 8mm is not a scale.

[@lukaskubik4698]

I really like this "Epic" style of wargames. The new Warlord Games epic battle and the ever amazing looking Pico armor are really something I consider great.

[@banhammer7243]

Adeptus Titanicus and Space Marine was meant to be based on the Horus Heresy era battles, well at least originally. Over time GW released other factions like Orks, Eldar, Imperial Guard, Squats and Chaos demons. This kind of pushed the game beyond the Horus Hersey setting and they pivoted towards making the game setting more Warhammer 40K than 30k but the new rule set didn't stack up well to the original, but the models, especially armour was better.

[@tomgp]

1st edition was heresy, with the 2nd edition they explicitly moved the setting to 40k

[@angus3963]

I absolutely LOVED playing Epic (I got the Adeptus Titanicus kit for Xmas 1988) and still have some of it packed away. I would totally buy it in a heart beat if it ever came out again.

[@Ryotbh]

I remember my mate getting the boxed set for his birthday. We were all so stoked to help him assemble and paint all the tiny minis. Such a shame that it was discontinued, guess it doesn't make money.

[@jake53105]

I know I’m late to the party, just wanted to say that I’ve got a pretty gnarly cold and this video was perfect to kick back with to calm me down. Little bit of lo-fi tunes and a cool relic from the past. Love it.

[@hectorcornejo1468]

I was there when Rogue Trader was introduced into the US and all of us fell head first hardcore into the game. From there we bought anything GW we could get our hands on, and I ended up being the one that brought Adeptus Titanicus to the table, we all loved that game and the rules that followed. I still have Adeptus Titanicus and Space Marine rules on PDF from first to third edition on a disk somewhere lol. Wish I held onto that stuff

[@mr.miniaturesmodels8465]

Well researched, well presented and well done! I never got into Epic but I was sorely disappointed when the Eldar Wave Serpent 40k model didn’t follow the Epic one. I’ve seen a few (very few) well done conversions throughout the years. It made the actual 40k Wave Serpent look “cheapened” with the tacked on antenna over a Falcon’s hull.

[@DavidSharpMSc]

The absolutely best game they ever made. The sheer scale of it, the models, the cute explosion markers, the rules allowing each side a chance to react or seize initiative. Peak TableTop.