Was Flogging Really That Bad?

[@BrandonF]

Click here: helixsleep.com/brandonf for up to $200 off your Helix Sleep mattress plus two free pillows! The process was super easy and I was able to get the whole thing set up, on my own, in just a few minutes! #helixsleep

[@professordreamer8479]

Brandon F can you do a video on Charles II and why his reign was a-lot better than what people excepted it and a video on why Edward VIII was a missed opportunity for a progressive ambition visionary people's monarch he was as well as George VI's reign as King Of The UK and CommonWealth.

[@SamBrickell]

*Nice suit!*

[@ilari90]

Gave me real Austin Powers vibes there :P in a "Smashing, baby!" way :P

[@stamfordly6463]

@@professordreamer8479 Would that "progessiveness" be related in any way to Edward's belief that Hitler wasn't a bad sort really? Or to his attempts to win at point-to-point steeplechases by telling the other jockeys not to try? Or marrying a woman who regularly took tea with von Ribbentrop?

[@stamfordly6463]

I must say, you took the mattress thing much more seriously than Lindybeige.

[@pansenstich6932]

Brandon: "NOOOO you can't just say "in the 18th century" it was a long period of time" Medievalists: "First time?"

[@thodan467]

the romans were not that gentle

[@bilanovitch]

Especially "the LONG 18th century". I had to quite a bit of searching to find out what that meant. Still love the content tho!

@@bilanovitch It's literally the first result I get from Google: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long_eighteenth_century

[@TomFynn]

Irving Finkel: [chuckles in Sumerian]

[@fuferito]

“For God's sake, Jack, the man failed to salute.”

[@BrandonF]

You've come to the wrong shop for anarchy, brother.

[@fuferito]

@@BrandonF, “I hate it when you speak of the Service in this way; it makes me so very low.”

[@PeterPan54167]

@@BrandonF Men must be governed.

[@chrismc410]

@@PeterPan54167 not often wisely, I grant you but must be governed nonetheless.

[@cleverusername9369]

​@@chrismc410 that is the excuse of every tyrant in history, from Nero to Bonaparte.

[@zephyer-gp1ju]

Lewis and Clark had a deserter and Lewis had the man tracked down and returned to camp. At that time they were staying with an Indian tribe. Lewis ordered the man flogged and the Chief of the village watched the flogging and made comment to Lewis. Lewis asked if the tribe had rules and laws and what did they do for punishment. The Chief replied, "We have rules but, we don't do this. We just kill them, this is cruel."

[@charliefrown6206]

Such good memories! I remember when this channel had fifteen-thousand subscribers. I haven’t been here in years. . . thank you Brandon! It was always a pleasure.

[@BrandonF]

Well welcome back! Things have definitely changed since then, but all for the best I hope!

[@MetaSynForYourSoul]

I can't even fathom 300 lashes let alone 700 or 1000. It seems incomprehensible to me that anyone could even survive such punishment, or I think torture a more apt description. And you were *MEANT* to survive this, to make it through?! My brain melts at the very thought of the measly 10 lashes I saw in the scene in Starship Troopers. The immense pain, my God. Again your eloquence shined through, Brandon, as by middle of the video, not trying to be facetious in any way here, my back started hurting. Nobody can bring it to life like you, man. The things we think of to do to each other, my God. This and Keelhauling (another video topic for you if you haven't got your fill of the horror yet) are 2 military punishments I doubt I could endure, in fact I know I couldn't. I think I would force them to shoot me, providing I could, by trying to escape. Hey, who knows, I might make it. *shakes head in immense self doubt.

[@OcarinaSapphr-]

The keel-hauling scene in Black Sails was _wild_ - were people meant to survive it as well, Brandon?

[@NobleKorhedron]

I thought Starship Troopers was 12 lashes...? 🤔

[@termitreter6545]

Theres plenty of people that died from less than lashes. Suspect it depends on the time frame, the lashes can be done over hours or weeks. Some of tht stuff is just unbelievably barbaric.

[@MetaSynForYourSoul]

@@OcarinaSapphr- Actually, most of the time, I don't think so. That one was actually just straight up execution. But yeah that Keelhauling scene in Black Sails was incredible.

[@MetaSynForYourSoul]

@@NobleKorhedron you might be right. I saw it in the theaters so many years ago I can't even remember.

[@shingasa4725]

It’s always funny to me, that the Prussian Army abolished all of these punishments, after 1806. They were defeated by Napoleon so badly, that they needed to assemble a whole new army from volunteers. So these punishments like „Spießrutenlauf“ were exchanged with prison sentences, bc the soldiers were more valuable and they needed more troops.

[@Tareltonlives]

Well, Spießrutenlauf used PIKES

[@shingasa4725]

@@Tareltonlives Not really, its derived from Landsknecht courts, where guilty people were stabbed with pikes as an execution method. Later, soldiers would form up in two lines, and the culprit had to walk between them and was beaten with sticks.

[@wayneantoniazzi2706]

Also, in the later German Army the soldier was dishonorably discharged and sent to a civilian prison to maximise the disgrace. Not only were you kicked out of the army but the army wanted nothing more to do with you, even locking you up.

[@Tareltonlives]

@@shingasa4725 Ah. thank you. So the same term was used for both the execution and the beatings?

[@thodan467]

citicen soldiers to ne exact

[@TalabAlSahra]

“Was flogging really that bad?” Now THATS a spicy take.

[@GabeUSA07]

A Brandon F. lecture on flogging? Sounds like a relaxing evening

[@wayneantoniazzi2706]

If what I've read is true in the Royal Navy too MUCH flogging on a captains part would raise quite a few eyebrows in the Admiralty. It worked like this. After a voyage captains had to submit their logs to the Admiralty for review, and bear in mind the ship's log is a legal record of everything that takes place on the voyage. The occasional flogging would be understood, but flogging after flogging after flogging in the log would raise the question of "Is this the only way this man can maintain discipline?" and it would call into question his abilities as a leader, questions that particular captain would be very uncomfortable answering to a review board. It would most likely prevent that captain from ever getting another command and leave him spending the rest of his naval career "on the beach." So the wise captain only flogged when absolutely necessary and not for trivial matters that could be punished by other means.

[@rkohnke1]

I have also read this. But that brings up something in my mind. Forget about the ships the size of the Victory and other really large capital ships of the day for a moment. Being stationed on a ship the size of a frigate, or something smaller, for months on end would cause the amount of surplus seamen to be fairly small. The ship would have just enough on board to keep the ship running efficiently. The smaller ships were just not big enough to carry extras. If a captain gave to many floggings, where would a replacement come from, suitable or otherwise. So, as Wayne suggests. A wise captain had other options. Unless it was an offense that could not be ignored, I would think that handling it another way would be better. just a thought.

[@wayneantoniazzi2706]

@@rkohnke1 Good points on the frigates, but sometimes even the first, second, and third rate capital ships had problems keeping the manning levels up to where they should have been. It wasn't unusual to be short-handed with gunnery crews, frequently gunners would have to run from one side of the ship to the other to serve the guns if the ship made a turn.

[@TomFynn]

On the other end of the spectrum (damn if I can find the reference), a captain who would not flog at all, like sleeping on watch or stealing from your shipmates, risked to loose the respect of his crew who were quite adamant that here some flogging was absolutely warranted.

[@wayneantoniazzi2706]

@@TomFynn I don't know, I've never read that anywhere in any of my readings about the RN. The only things I've read about the crews attitude towards flogging was they accepted it as the normal course of things when warranted but DID resent its being applied unfairly. Certainly they'd expect deriliction of duty or theft to be punished in some manner.

[@WyomingTraveler]

Gen. Morgan was sentenced to 400 lashes, but according to him he received only 399. Meriether Lewis had one of his men run the gauntlet for desertion. The local chief told Lewis he was a cruel man.

[@matthewshepherd5390]

A general was sentenced to lashes? That's unusual

[@Dreadnought586]

@@matthewshepherd5390 not when he was a general

[@matthewshepherd5390]

@@Dreadnought586 a ranker that rose to a general? That's unusual

[@iandavis9686]

@@Dreadnought586 flogging has never been abolished in the Royal Navy but was abolished in the,British Army in 1889 or there abouts and was abolished in 1948 in British Prisons

[@WyomingTraveler]

​@@matthewshepherd5390 He was not a general when he was wiped. He was wagoner in the British Army during the. French & Indian War at the time. Twenty years later he was a general in the Continental Army fighting the British and won one of the greatest battles of the American Revolution.

[@yellingyank1862]

Dang, I feel bad for that poor guy who got a legit flogging, glad he recovered semi-quickly

[@West_Coast_Mainline]

Dang

[@ninjaked1265]

Why did they have real flogs though?

[@hareemqureshi822]

@@ninjaked1265 after hearing "not your mommas history" talk about the weird experiences she's had as a black woman in the world of historical reenactment I'm not surprised tbh

[@lindenmanmax]

I just hope he and his colleagues will refrain from acting out the other Stations of the Cross.

[@Bonny1212icloud]

Absolutely disgusting just lock somebody up in jail. They don’t do that to them. I’m a nice person, but even a nice person will fight back if someone tries to attack him you’ve got to defend yourself. Flogging is unnecessary. It’s disgusting they must’ve been crazy.

[@matteobuccellato8474]

Howans is such a chad. Took 300 lashes without a murmur.

[@hareemqureshi822]

Sigma male grindset

[@spiffygonzales5899]

@@hareemqureshi822 I don't think that's something you can grind for. You either have that level of stubbornness or you don't. And let's be real here, chances are neither you or I have it.

[@mavrick1992]

Love the content! Your passion for history is infectious. You’re an excellent lecturer

[@BrandonF]

I appreciate that, thank you!

[@IrishTechnicalThinker]

In the Sharpe books he was sentenced to 2000 lashes by Hawkswell and only suffered 203 I believe, until Wellington himself was riding past and over hearing the lash number 203, inquired how many lashes was sentenced and why such a punishment was being issued then demanded the flogging to stop at once. Saving Sharpes life.

[@00muinamir]

13:30 I am so, so angry on his behalf. Some people do not know how to conduct themselves with regards to consent and this is why we can't have nice things. This just seems like a bad idea, unfortunately. If anyone gets cut up reenacting this (please don’t…) it should be red light, stop, end scene, pull out the MODERN first aid kit, and do NOT actually throw solid salt in that wound. A historically accurate flogger is going to be so unsanitary, this just screams “bad idea”. 26:00 You’ve touched on something I’ve been contemplating as I read up on the history of birching, which was near-ubiquitous in England in the 18th and 19th century. Everyone who was under someone else’s charge, child or adult (household staff, wives, students, apprentices, prisoners) lived in fear of being caned or birched. Mortification of the flesh to save the soul still had its grip on society; people saw “the rake’s progress” as the inevitable slippery slope you’d go down if no one whipped some sense into you. Ironically, getting birched by a prostitute was a frequent request put to brothels. I’m not a psychologist, but it seems like that at least speaks to just how thoroughly corporal punishment had woven itself into the fabric of English life at the time. People swam in that particular stew of violence and its connections to power dynamics and control. Of course they weren’t going to object to flogging of all things-they saw it as a natural part of how you kept order in a group.

[@Jcaeser187]

What if I soak my rope in historically accurate rum before flogging and salting the wound? That's safer

[@termitreter6545]

Even now. Considering how much Brits love their monarchs, it does look indeed like they got made to love their oppressors.

[@Jcaeser187]

@@termitreter6545 England is a meme country with 0 liberty and a past they've brought shame to. Nothing to do with the monarchy, theyre elites but I imagine they aren't the most influential over the affairs of state. It's not Queen Elizabeth who covered up rope gangs, censors everything or has a deranged police state with Chinese facial recognition cameras. Their problems can only be solved violently

[@PCDelorian]

@@termitreter6545 Don't assume that Brits love their monarchs, its not entirely accurate, that's not to say there isn't a lot of love for them as the ongoing events with Her Late Majesty proves; but this love is far from universal, and many that do, love the tradition and culture that accompanies it, also the British Crown has been more Liberal than Oppressive for much of its history, with most modern freedoms being associated with the Old Liberties of England.

[@termitreter6545]

@@PCDelorian Of course not all Brits love the royals. But enough do. I'd disagree with the crown itself being liberal though. Monarchie is a deeply authoritarian institution based on the concept of humans having unequal value, there is no way around it. And its not like the british royals just gave up their rights. It took a bunch of bloody civil wars and centuries to wrestle its power away.

[@jamesharding3459]

Having been smacked by a simple piece of paracord with a hard end (due solely down to me being an idiot who cannot tie knots), I can only imagine how awful a proper lash would be.

[@totalwar1793]

As someone who was spanked with belt buckles... My parents didn't make me drop trou back then, but it still hurt a lot. I can't imagine something going faster than sound hitting your skin. Flogging seems like it would hurt *a lot*.

[@saldol9862]

from experience it’s so much worse with dropped pants

[@Tigershark_3082]

I'm genuinely sad you guys were treated like that as kids

[@prich0382]

I doubt flogging tools go faster than sound lol

[@demonicsquid7217]

@@prich0382 the tip of a whip can go supersonic.

[@totalwar1793]

@@prich0382 Whip cracks are supersonic

[@lucasmatiasdelaguilamacdon7798]

Well, if BDSM has taught me something is that a safeword is always needed. So if you were to reenact a flogging, you'd definitely need one in case one of the lashes actually lands on your skin...

[@solarsatan9000]

i was wondering how long it would to find bdsm mentioned in this comment section

[@00muinamir]

From the sound of it, it was an actual flogging, it's just that they were supposed to slow down their swings so that the impact was minimal. I really don't think they should be doing flogging reenactments to begin with, TBH. A historically accurate cat o' nine isn't like a modern flogger, you can't really wipe it down and infections from it were rampant back in the day. Putting a bunch of 'nillas in charge of a public group event like this just sounds like a nightmare, you know?

[@spiffygonzales5899]

Video: Here's accounts of a thousand lashes and flesh being ripped from flesh and blood spewing from the new openings in his skin. Here's how brutal and grotesque it is. This guy: well if there's one thing BDSM has taught me

[@lucasmatiasdelaguilamacdon7798]

@@spiffygonzales5899 I mean, in reenactments we shoot each other all the time. And of course there are people making sure we don't do things that can get other people hurt but it's a risk that is always present. Now, I could, for instance, see it possible to reenact a flogging, just you know, hitting the ground and not the person. That's what my point was. Same as with battles, you know. No one's loading live ammo, and I'm sure most groups have their own protocol on what to do if, let's say, a powder charge goes off before it should, or a barrell explodes. Same thing with this my dude.

[@laughingsnake1989]

I am into bdsm my self and yep safe words always

[@CivilWarWeekByWeek]

Short answer: Yes Long answer: Brandon F

[@memeseagull6937]

I misread the title as clogging and thought that militaries forced their soldiers to clog toilets for some reason lol

[@TheEngineer4077]

Actually they do have their soldier clogged. It means forcing them to wear clogs, those funny and uncomfortable wooden shoes while working. Very painful. So much splinters.

[@iconodule3938]

Or dance in clogs

[@probablynotaspy2806]

Was reading master and commander and there was a section describing flogging that i was reading when this released, great timing lol

[@E350tb]

First of all, that’s a very nice suit. One interesting little tidbit I’ve read about is that in the early days of the Sydney colony, the marines actually thought the convicts had it better than they did; one of the reasons being that the whips they were flogged with was considered easier to weather than the cat o’ nine tails. I have heard, though I’m not sure if the veracity of it, that the Romanian Army in the Second World War still practiced flogging.

[@bromhead]

brandon is smiling the entire video while talking about this lol

[@BrandonF]

I'm a happy boy

[@bromhead]

@@BrandonF yes lol btw when next stream?

[@BrandonF]

@@bromhead Probably tomorrow!

[@bromhead]

@@BrandonF thats great!

[@Tareltonlives]

This is better BDSM than that ASMR video he reviewed.

[@jbsmith966]

The cat o' nine tails was sometimes kept in a scarlet bag. This is were the term "The cat is out of the bag" comes from, meaning things are bout to get real and nasty...

[@elmono6299]

There's an actual morbid song that goes, "What do you do with a drunken sailor? You give him the taste of the captain's daughter!" While this may sound like a fun time until you find out that the Captain's daughter is that infamous bloody whip. 🐈‍⬛🩸

[@eliane2743]

One last thought on the topic of corporal punishment and discipline… never forget, as an officer, that sooner or later you end up in a combat situation with all the men around you carrying loaded guns…

[@grapeshot]

Gen.Daniel Morgan was flogged and he always said the British owes him one more lash.

[@GQ2593]

Now that's a man

[@Tareltonlives]

Guy was really something. I hope the Patriot videos will get some discussion on Morgan's battle of Cowpens, his masterpiece.

[@wayneantoniazzi2706]

Reportedly when Morgan went the rounds before the battle of Cowpens he pulled up his shirt and showed the troops his flogging scars. "Look what the British did to me! They'll never do it to me again and we're going to pay 'em back tomorrow!" Well, that's one way to motivate the troops!

[@helwrecht1637]

You know your question really does intrigue me, why take out a useful soldier? I will watch with great interest

[@sanjivjhangiani3243]

Actually, for more severe offences, they would hang you or shoot you. Flogging meant that they still hoped to improve you.

[@Tareltonlives]

A suggestion for a future video: the actual events on the HMS Bounty, the context of the incident, and why it became romanticized and misunderstood.

[@chrisball3778]

Part of the reason 18th century British soldiers and sailors would have viewed flogging as an inevitable part of military life was that it was a part of civilian life as well. A common punishment for petty theft and vagrancy (the 'crime' of being homeless) was to be 'whipped at the cart's tail', where you'd be stripped to your undergarments, tied to the back of a cart, then forced to walk through the neighbourhood where you'd committed the offence whilst being flogged. They were cruel times, and the state didn't have the resources to impose imprisonment as a standard punishment (people were held in prisons whilst awaiting trial or in order to force them to pay debts, but not usually after conviction), so corporal punishment was seen as the best form of deterrent against offending. The public shaming aspect of flogging was a key part of the ordeal and even if the lashes were light and low in number, it would have been deeply humiliating.

[@geoffreybaldwin4308]

The humiliation was always a key aspect of flogging. It wasn’t just the pain. Being stripped to the waist, helplessly secured during punishment, and in some cases being whipped before a crowd observing the punishment, made it undoubtedly very humiliating.

[@wayneantoniazzi2706]

We should note during the 18th Century the term was "corporeal punishment," corporeal meaning "Of the body." Sometime between then and now "corporeal" became "corporal," but I have no idea when.

[@markmcgoey9910]

Hi Brandon, not sure if it’s of interest to you, would love to see some more coverage on British tactics and attitudes about combat with indigenous peoples in the americas. Thanks for making these informative and interesting videos, thanks!

[@BrandonF]

It's something that I need to learn more about, but something vaguely related, I was thinking of some day doing a video about Native combat tactics and why they didn't fight in formations like Western troops did.

[@OcarinaSapphr-]

@@BrandonF I think HistoryBuffs mentioned a little about Native American battle tactics in his 'Last of the Mohicans' video, if you need a starting point...

[@Tareltonlives]

@@BrandonF That would be great. A book I remember reading in college that I enjoyed a lot was The Skulking Way of War by Patrick M. Malone about how the limited numbers (after smallpox decimated the people) and greater lethality of weapons (there are records of classic setpiece battles of armored soldiers with bows and spears before firearms) caused the creation of light infantry tactics in the American woodlands.

[@spiffygonzales5899]

@@BrandonF You should do both :D I mean imagine how much their tactics must have changed. The Brits find what they'd consider primitives and the Indians see a force using weapons they don't quite understand. I think a video on what tactics each used and how that changed over the years would be awesome :DD

[@eadgbefreak]

In biblical times 40 lashes was the maximum given , they stopped at 39 just in case someone miscounted. (you were stoned to death for maximum sentences) I cannot imagine hundred of lashes and surviving.Good job Brandon it was a pleasure meeting you at Waloomsac.

[@Tareltonlives]

Right, there are laws in Scripture punishing people who beat their slaves to death.

[@wayneantoniazzi2706]

That was the standard maximum flogging sentence in the Continental Army, 40 lashes less one.

[@geoffreybaldwin4308]

I think 39 lashes would have been endurable. I’d try it. Most punishment was of a reasonable number, not 100s of lashes.

[@wayneantoniazzi2706]

@@geoffreybaldwin4308 I don't know, I sure wouldn't want to find out!

[@Tareltonlives]

@@geoffreybaldwin4308 I imagine it would take a few weeks to recover from that though

[@marciodacunha7593]

Thanks Brandon, the video is quite well done and respectful in its approach.

[@BrandonF]

Thank you for taking the time to sit down and tolerate my camera! And for the kind words, of course.

[@user-vg6sg7kh1q]

Why they were flogged is also interesting like felling trees to block the passage of wood sleigh. In Canada the law changes only in 1972 to remove it as a sentence

[@flawlessbinary7449]

What a coincidence. This video comes out the day I start research on this subject. Thankful as always.

[@williamromine5715]

People try to impose modern sensibilities to past societies, and it doesn't work. For example, in this day, to steal a horse is just the theft of property. But, to steal a horse in the American South West, could be the theft of the owner's livelihood, or the death of the owner if he is stranded in the harsh climate of a winter or summer. In both cases, property was stolen, but the consequences could be devastating or death, or merely inconvenient depending upon time and place.

[@ThZuao]

Excellent put. But I miss the "old sensibility" to crime, if you can put it that way. It is known to economists that crime runs businesses to the ground and drives away the ones that can get away. Baker lady I got my bread from was so traumatised by being robbed at machette point (yes, really) that she locked herself and all her merchandise behind a grate. You'll go up to the door of her store, say what you need and she would hand it over from inside the grates. She did that untill she sold the store to a nice couple with a young child. Hopefully the guy has a gun now. Anyways, it's the broken window theory. Let crime go unchecked and it gets worse untill it makes the crime hotspot pretty much unlivable.

[@williamromine5715]

@@ThZuao Amen. I agree with everything you said. It starts in school. "The poor child just can't control himself", so let's get him medication, and give him special treatment. When I was growing up 80 years ago, yes, I'm 80, you messed up in school, you got whacked, then when you got home, you got another your father. It became pretty clear that you were supposed to conform to society's norms, not the other way around. So, we grow whole generations of people who have no respect for others or the law. Thanks for your comment.

[@thodan467]

@@williamromine5715 and societies norms were brutal, racist, genocidal and conformist

[@williamromine5715]

@@thodan467 Judging by today's standards. You can't impose today's standards on the people of the past. We acknowledge the problems of the past, but recognize that society slowly improves, hopefully, over time.

[@thodan467]

@@williamromine5715 The facts are facts nonetheless

[@ninjaked1265]

When you said, “roll the clip,” an ad popped up

[@bilanovitch]

This seems to be the ONLY video on this topic. Thanks!

[@CMDRFandragon]

100...200....1000 lashings. Remembering getting my own ass beat when I was a little kid, the 5-20 lashings I got on my ass felt like torture. I couldnt imagine hundreds of hits on my back....oooof

[@melissalayson7275]

The standard of lashes in the US Navy was 12 lashes until flogging was banned.

[@lynnbaker2336]

Try the humiliation of such a spanking in your late teens! The mental pain was worse than the physical!

[@Strawberry-12.]

1:07 fun fact the sailors had a nickname for the cat o nine tails: they called it the captains daughter because it was an ugly punishment (sailors are hilarious)

[@andybrace9225]

"kissing the gunners daughter" was being tied to the cannon with the face level with the touch-hole.

[@lindenmanmax]

I'd rather kiss the captain's daughter, or even the gunner's daughter, than marry the ropemaker's daughter.

[@Hero-lo3kt]

I know that you said that you had issues with the Sharpe series (particularly with "spit-loading) but how do you feel the way the series depicted flogging? I remember the part of the episode Sharpe's Company where Sgt. Harper was flogged for something he didn't do, it was quite intense.

[@sirknight6283]

About to go to bed, but might as well watch a 28min Brandon F video

[@natospysanchez8938]

Now this is some true soldering

[@fuferito]

Hear hear.

[@mike5d1]

I seem to remember a story in a book by B H Liddell Hart in which during Malborough's Blenheim Campaign a soldier of The Coldstream Guards was sentenced to flogged for striking an officer. Supposedly he was given 1271 Lashes in several sessions ( probably waiting for his back to recover) before the punishment was stopped. This was actually only 10 percent of his original sentence.

[@SpacenoidCentral]

That soldier is superhuman

[@zach7193]

Such practice as this was in the Sharpe series. Not mention the Crucible and Glory.

[@zakazany1945]

This video reminded me of the "Revolta da Chibata" here in Brazil that happened because the navy flogged black sailors quite disproportionately. That happened in 1910. It started when a man was flogged 250 times and denied treatment.

[@johnnotrealname8168]

It would be cool to discuss soldier's perspectives of discipline because you could end up liking a general despite his stringency on looting and such.

[@kingjoe3rd]

The guy that got flogged at the reenactment was way too nice about it. I would have stomped that idiot's head in if he really hit me, and I would not be acting nice about it when telling the story to you. I used to get real floggings with a belt on my butt when I was a kid and that itself was horrific, so I can't even imagine getting hit on the back.

[@marciodacunha7593]

He may, of may not have chased that guy down, only to find he wasn't on site any longer. 👀😅

[@olafolaf2384]

Very nice! Just yesterday I saw your last flogging video and found it interesting to find the very self-satisfied/righteous attitude of the watching sailors in the described picture also in the account of flogging that Patrick O Brian gave in the book Far Side of the World (end of chapter 3), the clip of which you showed in this video. Thanks for answering my questions about frequency of flogging (that match with O Brian’s „happy ship“) and the hand‘s reaction/acceptance of that practice

[@leonstancliff7218]

I know this channel has a military focus but flogging was part of the judicial punishment for civilians also. Commission of almost any misdemeanor could result in a civilian being flogged and most public squares and court houses had a "whipping post" on site for quick rendering of sentence. Many times in early American history individuals were "whipped out of the colony", meaning they stopped at any village that had a whipping post for a few quick lashes before continuing toward the border of the colony. In the county where I grew up, the first act of the county court, in 1802, was to plant a whipping post on the court house lawn. They also cut off ears, noses, digits, and branded people visibly. The past was a rough place!

[@moritamikamikara3879]

>Brandon opening his packages with a bayonet. Aww man, you and I are kindred spirits (and Life of Boris)

[@FrenchDisapointment1871]

As someone pasionate of the century of revolution(1780-1880) in my country your video are always helpfull !!!

[@Pooknottin]

The history of punishment seems to show that public, physical punishment eventually fell by the wayside due to the perception that it was ineffective as a deterrant. The stringent property laws of the early Victorian period for example, with hanging for the smallest offence, were replaced by significant prison reforms and private hangings only for the most serious of offences when it was seen that the rate of crime had actually increased under the threat of the rope. This is not to say that fear is not a deterrant, but perhaps a balance needs to be struck in regards to proportionality, else every criminal will through fatalism resort to the most dire acts to escape capture. A burglar, or pickpocket who knows they will be hung for the lesser offence might feel it prudent, when discovered to kill the witness as the punishment is merely the same. I suspect however that the change in focus from property to human suffering in regards to the severity of an offence was a greater influence on an improved criminal legal system. The perception of people overall, that sentences were comparatively just and the focus on crimes which caused suffering as the most severe made it possible for the public to see the law as something good, not merely something to be feared.

[@andrewb8698]

I honestly wonder why this is the first video of yours KZbin had recommended me in months. Most of the time I have to look for your channel when I feel like some history from you.

[@infidelcastrato1844]

Kids these days don't know how good they have it. Back in my day, we'd get flooged to death then flogged until we came back. And that was when we got off easy

[@mrfitz96]

Surviving period examples indicate that the lashes used by the army were lighter and less damaging than the ones used by the navy. Which is probably why records indicate sailors got dozens of lashes compared to soldiers getting punished with hundreds of lashes (up to a maximum of 1500). Also soldiers were often lashed by teenage drummer boys as opposed to sailors getting flogged by burly bosuns.

[@CriminalFriday]

Seriously nuts to me that whoever did the flogging thought it would be okay to actually lash him.

[@stephanl1983]

Flogging was banned in oversea service in 1881, but was still earlier banned in home service

[@BrandonF]

Ah, that’s a good distinction to make! Thank you.

[@sirisaacbrock798]

5:44 600 lashes for saying "instruments" rather than the written "implements".

[@TJBrickProductions]

Hey Brandon, what’s the least and most amount of lashes given to a soldier recorded?

[@lreg43]

IWE still have some expressions associated with flogging, "not enough room to swing a cat" was in fact the cat of nine tails, ditto "let the cat out of the bag" When you were being flogged you were given a lead bullet to bite on so to "bite the bullet" was to take your punishment.

[@00muinamir]

I think the "let the cat out of the bag" origin story is a bit suspect, especially since the meaning doesn't really seem to line up. One thing I've never seen discussed as a possible origin is how often cats were abused as part of rituals meant to banish evil. You'd have to capture a cat to do it, but if you accidentally let a captured cat out of the bag before it was time, there was no way you were going to recapture it again. And that lines up with the original sense in which it was used, explicitly stating that you weren't going to be able to put it back in again.

[@skepticalbadger]

Of those only bite the bullet is plausible, and that more likely comes from medical surgery. The other two are about actual (if metaphorical) cats. Don't fall for folk etymology.

[@landlockedcroat1554]

no one walks away from torture unchanged, not the subject nor the torturer himself

[@CharliMorganMusic]

Ive never been flogged, but Its timeless popularity as a punishment suggests that it is both incredibly painful and mostly survivable.

[@cjthehistoryperson]

Based only on the title, I’m gonna guess “yes it very much was”

[@scottanos9981]

At that point you take the musket to yourself

[@sloshed-rat]

"Sir, you had best shoot me."

[@jamesverhoff1899]

It is worth noting that in the mutinies at Spithead and the Noire flogging was not mentioned. The mutineers did not appear to consider it sufficiently problematic to mention. The articles issued by the mutineers are available at The Dear Surprise.

[@wayneantoniazzi2706]

From my readings the only problem RN sailors had with flogging was if it was applied unfairly. They themselves realized that every crew was likely to have its "bad actors" and sometimes flogging was the only way to give them the idea they'd better change their ways. The Great Mutiny at Spithead was really more of a strike than a mutiny, the sailors had legitimate grievences such as the RN hadn't had a pay raise in 100 years and the sailors also wanted an improvement in their rations. The mutineers also said that if the French attempted an invasion they'd stop the "strike" and willingly go out and fight. Through the efforts of Admiral Lord Howe the mutiny was settled amicably. The Nore mutiny had heavy political overtones inspired by the French Revolution. That was put down quickly with the willing aid of loyal men and the instigators hung.

[@davewanamaker3690]

Is this similar to wounds by cat-o-nine tails or is the lash weapon the same?

[@zappababe8577]

I don't understand how a human being can do that to another human being. They must have been psychopaths with no empathy.

[@thewannabehistorian9450]

Is this what the teacher is going to do when he finds out I haven't turned in my homework

[@trolleymouse]

I always remember that, in the early 19th, a Maori chief's son was flogged as punishment for crimes aboard the ship that was taking him back home, and his iwi saw the act as so heinous that they considered killing and eating the entire ship's crew to be fair recompense.

[@bilanovitch]

One stroke of a cat o' nine tails is like nine separate stripes in one blow. I wonder if each strand counted for a stroke. Because (other than being even more cruel) nine strokes at a blow would save a lot of time and that seems like something the military would invent.

[@legofan4047]

Brandon really acts like Zack Pinsent during his Commercial for Helix, like 1 to 1. They‘re the same Person and nothing can convince me otherwise!

[@00muinamir]

Oh, they are for sure not the same person (love them both tho).

[@Patrick-uu5xg]

Very interesting. I ofton wonder what life was like in first during pease time. Namely fort mackanaw and copper harbor mi.

[@ThePoeticPariah]

So, recently I went through taser training and got tazed (both by electrodes and a dry stun). During training, I was told that a taser is a more effective deterent than a gun. And after being tazed, seeing, "I'd rather be shot," instead of being flogged is something I totally get. x.x

[@jbsmith966]

Floggings were carried out in prisons well into the 20th Century,,even after militaries had long banned the practice. It is still practiced in a number of countries today. Look up "Lash Mutiny" - this happened in the Brazilian Navy in 1910

[@ghostie7028]

Hi Brandon, an idea for another video could be on POWs in the 18th and early 19th century.

[@oliversherman2414]

I love your channel keep up the great stuff

[@TheDavejmcknight]

Excellent assessment, Sir!

[@rexpayne7836]

Great content and presentation.

[@WagesOfDestruction]

Flogging is still used in many countries in the world today.

[@wayneantoniazzi2706]

I had to think about Brandon's saying "The long 18th Century." Certainly it's got some poetry behind it but then it dawned on me it makes perfect sense. The 18th Century began in 1701 with the War Of The Spanish Succession and in effect didn't really end until the Battle of Waterloo in 1815. 114 years of on-and-off wars and power struggles. If you were British you didn't have to ask Grandpa what it was like fighting the French because chances were you were fighting them yourself! And vice-versa!

[@cleverusername9369]

Uh... no, the 18th century really did end in 1800, because ... well that's how numbers work. By definition, a century is 100 years, a century can't be 114 years.

[@wayneantoniazzi2706]

@@cleverusername9369 I was speaking rhetorically, even poetically, but not literally. I know centuries only last 100 years. Come on now.

[@melissamybubbles6139]

That's scary stuff. I can't imagine the nervous system trauma.

[@robertcuminale1212]

Flogging was common in the US Navy as well. A man was brought before the main mast for trial. Even today it is called "Captain's Mast". If you are found guilty in those days you would receive lashes or a number of days on bread and water or restriction from port if the ship was in port. Flogging was ended by Commodore Uriah Philips Levi as it was considered cruel and it rendered the man unable to work in most cases. Levi was the first Jew to attend the US Naval Academy and commissioned an officer. The Philips Family was a wealthy family that had arrived in New Netherland in 1653 with a group of Jews fleeing the Inquisition in Recife, Brazil. Recife was taken from the Portuguese by the Dutch who freed all the Jews from pretending to be Christians. When the Portuguese returned they were threatened by the Inquisition for renouncing Christianity and 23 of them boarded a ship for New Netherland. Governor General Peter Stuyvesant refused to allow them to land because they had no means of support. Jewish stockholders promised to support them and Stuyvesant was ordered to all them to land.

[@alisaurus4224]

In the show Outlander, flogging is graphically depicted as tearing flesh, causing massive blood loss, and leaving extensive scarring, in under 100 lashes. It’s fiction, with the flogging officer having a sadistic fascination with the victim, and soon personally taking the whip in hand because the enlisted man wasn’t doing enough damage. Even with the showrunner’s remarks about POV in the video below, it felt to me that the author Diana Gabaldon was indulging in torture pørn (to go with all the regular pørn in Outlander) when she first wrote the scene. 2-min BTS clip about the flogging: kzbin.info/www/bejne/nZvZdnmHo9GHgZY

[@00muinamir]

...that seems like way too much bleeding for the dude to still be semi-conscious. I guess that was their attempt to de-sexify it but then it breaks immersion and I'm just hearing the Chubbyemu theme in my head.

[@piatpotatopeon8305]

Reenacting is hardcore! This is a really good video. It's interesting to see this indepth coverage of the military usage of flogging. Did you also know that it had extensive civilian use over the centuries? I can't speak for areas outside my expertise, but I have read maybe a dozen accounts of it on American whaling ships where the captain was basically a tyrant over their crew.

[@BrandonF]

The article I link on the British Tars blog goes into that a little bit! Mainly on slaving ships and other British merchantmen.

[@xb2856]

Idk man Americans being like this makes me smile, whether is being a teaboo or whatever. So enthusiastic and passionate

[@johnathonmolinaok4858]

3:12 what’s the name of this movie?

[@wayneantoniazzi2706]

It's the British TV series "Hornblower" from 1998, based on the Horatio Hornblower novels by C. S. Forester. Great series, I remember watching it on (I think) PBS around that time.

[@tomz5704]

Could you make a video about the Dutch navy in the 17th century, when it was the biggest/strongest naval power in the world?

[@spiffygonzales5899]

10:20 Now, he may have been an idiot... but imagine being the sort of Chad to not only boldy accept that sort of punishment KNOWING what it was saying "I'll take it like a man"... but to actually go through with that boast and DO IT... like... Bro.

[@DTavona]

Fascinating topic. FWIW, with the start of "Part the Third" the video and audio are slightly off sync, with the audio lagging by like a half second.

[@stumccabe]

When I was at school in an ex-British colony we were subject to corporal punishment -the cane, applied to the buttocks. The most I ever received was three "stripes" and the pain was pretty intense, but didn't last long. The maximum ever given was six. I cannot imagine the brutality of hundreds of lashes on bare skin - but there's no doubt in my mind that it was indeed as bad as we might imagine.

[@SHADOWNINE79]

Education can sometimes be painful

[@eymed2023]

​@@SHADOWNINE79 It isn't "education", it's torture and child abuse. If you think "spanking" is OK then you should be sentenced to a flogging. Maybe a taste of your own medicine will get you to change your mind.

[@HarpsiFizz]

Back in the day they'd say "you'll pay for that" before a flogging. These days, they say "you'll pay for that" afterwards (usually with a credit or debit card).

[@farmerboy916]

That is a really nice suit and waistcoat. Quite like the material

[@wape1]

24:03 What an excellent George Lucas impression, worthy of Rich Evans himself! 😁

[@ForwardSynthesis]

Were those few who were flogged to death, deliberately flogged to death, or were they more like the account given in the video where the man's back swelled up and became infected, killing him later?

[@00muinamir]

Sometimes the deaths were accidental owing to infection setting in. That being said, if someone got sentenced to be flogged 'round the fleet and was given the maximum number of lashings, it meant "we don't care if you live or die at this point" and was functionally a death sentence.

[@nanni-buyerofcopper]

17:11 don't worry Brandon, I'd swipe right. Not that I'm gay or anything, I just... Nevermind.

[@iandavis9686]

Flogging would continue until the officers deemed the "Soldier under Sentence" was insensible and would generally stop it, however after 5days the punishment would be restarted from the last number of strokes until the sentence was completed .

[@jbaidley]

May I ask what the significance of your poppy lapel pin is? It looks like the Royal British Legion's Poppy Appeal poppy but the time of year is wrong for that (unless you've been sitting on this video for a very long time indeed).

[@arsray7285]

This was the best sponsored message ever.

[@brontewcat]

The horrific thing about flogging is that it was used in many so called civilised countries to within living memory. It was only abolished in the UK in 1948, and continued to be used in UK prisons until 1962; in Australia (Victoria) until the 1950s and in the US until 1952 (Delaware). While the number of lashes was relatively small - less than 25, it is still horrifying to think the cat o nine tails was still being used so recently.

[@vinz4066]

"Jokes on you I am into that Shit "

[@tommyworkslave3999]

Yeehaw! Lay on with the will. Knock yourself out, sir, and don't mind me. Thank you, sir!