Was Greenfield an EF5 Tornado? - DAMAGE ANALYSIS: Greenfield, IA EF4

[@CarmenPalermoStorms]

Great video! Thanks for including my damage picture, it was quite a hectic situation so I was unsure of the exact location and I didn't spend much time getting pictures. Actually both of the manhole covers at the intersection of 7th and E Iowa Street were both sucked off. Me and another first responder covered them with plywood we found nearby before moving on so nobody would accidentally fall into it

[@junefirst]

Thanks for submitting!!

[@CarmenPalermoStorms]

@@junefirst of course!

[@AmyraCarter]

Thank you for covering those, not just for safety, but, unnn...methane gas is not pleasant...

[@P_RO_]

@@junefirst Wanted to be sure you saw this. Having removed parking stops myself, there's always dirt and dust washed under them which indicates less than 100% contact. This would of course affect the friction forces involved. I'd say at best you'd have 25% contact between stops and paving and on average probably ~15%. Also when molding concrete for appearance (as would be done here) with their being no real specs involved, the mix used will be wetter than ideal to promote a smooth finish so they're possibly slightly weaker than standard. A very significant wind force would still be needed to move them- it boggles the mind for sure!

[@carlmay9532]

@@junefirst Hey Ethan I have a question and maybe you can answer it. Regarding the parking stops and the crazy winds necessary to do what they did……In the Joplin tornado as I’m sure you’re aware, there were parking stops moved, thrown etc as well. The generic “winds around 200mph necessary to do this” was the explanation given. My question is this. Is there any difference in the way the parking stops were installed in Greenfield vs in Joplin? Is it possible that the winds in Joplin were similar in strength to the Greenfield tornado? I’ve always heard that Joplin (while indeed violent) might not have had as is tense wind speeds as other F/EF5’s and I wondered if maybe it really does take 250mph-ish winds to dislodge them. Thanks.

[@Lexrockstheblock]

Reed timmer was just saying on twitter that a university (OU?) was asking for his footage to perform photogrammetry and argue for a higher rating for greenfield.

[@OwenLenzmeierOrganist]

Yes, he said the iconic Dr. Josh Wurman (former OU prof and inventor of Doppler on Wheels) wants his footage to try and argue for an EF5 rating. He's hoping that the footage, combined with his measurements showing 310+ MPH winds, will be enough to justify a higher rating. Then again, last year's Matador, TX tornado ripped pavement out of the ground and still only got an EF3. Hopefully the revised EF scale coming in the next few years will address some of these problems, as the engineers creating it have said the current scale has a tendency to underrate tornadoes by as many as 2 EF ratings.

[@NoShotTwoKill]

According to photogrammetry Andover EF-3 would have been an EF-5 if they actually cared about photogrammetry

[@Tcrror]

​@@OwenLenzmeierOrganist I am really glad that such respected members of the storm chasing/meteorology community are saying the exact same things that the rest of us have been saying ever since the tornado happened. This is as clear as it gets. If this isn't an EF-5, no tornado is.

[@BGTech1]

What OU specifically?

[@bluewhalestudioblenderanim1132]

I think we should have a "meteorological intensity scale" of tornadoes or something similar to account for some these "loop holes" that the fujita scale cannot account for the main issue whith that being: it would require a pretty deep understanding of how tornadoes form . . . whitch as far as I know isn't yet a thing :/ . . . so maby several decades later

[@citronquartz2779]

i really love how you emphasize how life altering and disabling injuries can be, it's a really good reminder for me who, i admit, forgets that "injuries" don't always just mean "cuts, scrapes, small bruises"

[@AmyraCarter]

And that no matter what one has between their thighs, groin injuries hurt. (knows people whom have had such injuries from direct impacts during specific sports like skateboarding)

[@piedpiper1172]

I lost my chance to fulfill a lifelong dream a mere two weeks before I would have started the program because of a non-visible, non-bone breaking injury. I was struck by a car while pushing someone else out of the way. The impact with the ground tore tendons in both wrists, elbows, and my shoulders. You couldn’t tell looking at me, but it was crippling. Recovery took years and I still have impacts from it. Until you have a big one, and I mean a like, “expected recovery 2+ years” big one, it’s so hard to get your head around how impactful they can be. Often even then it takes time. I kept finding things I couldn’t do for over a year-often via very painful surprise trial and error.

[@CeltonHenderson]

Fantastic job dude, I'm always honored to work with you on these in any capacity. There is no doubt in my mind this tornado was an EF5 and it still haunts me knowing I saw it right before it killed all those people and took everything from so many others.

[@JustPlaneHistory]

Your footage is amazing. Thank you for all you do.

[@LVM5584]

You took amazing video of this monster Celton. Between you, Ethan, high risk Chris etc. you guys are killing it.

[@CeltonHenderson]

@@LVM5584 all friends irl as well :)

[@AndyReznov]

God job guys that's cool.

[@CoffeeonKorriban]

As I've said many times, the F scale used damage to estimate wind speeds. Those estimated wind speeds correlate with ratings. If the actual wind speed is known and verified, that should absolutely correlate to one of the categories.

[@petergraphix6740]

Yea, the EF scale only tells us what the tornado hits. It's hard to make predictions if tornadoes are getting worse over time when the actual damage is random, and correlated to population trends over time.

[@surgejohnson9197]

yea, crazy how this is one of the strongest in the world but still got category 4

[@diamondfinsfishrescue188]

thats because we have almost no accurate way to determine windspeed besides damage

[@bryanwheat9101]

​@@petergraphix6740they were getting less worse even before the ef scale.

[@JosephYostStorms]

Wind speeds were measured above the ground.

[@iluvanimals09098]

Greenfield is my hometown! I live in Greenfield. Thankfully none of my family members were hurt and none of my family members suffered structural damage to their homes. Both of my cousins cars were totaled, but their homes were fine. Thank God. We lost a lot of homes in that tornado, but so many people in my town are choosing to rebuild and it makes me happy that they chose to do that. Thanks for posting this video! #GreenfieldStrong

[@mjw1978]

I still struggle to understand how those concrete parking stops were torn out of a parking lot and rolled in this beast, and yet this wasn’t included in the NWS survey as a DI. Despite the fact that, if I recall correctly, in Joplin MO 2011, surveyors there specifically noted this same phenomena there as one of the DI for it being classified as an EF5. There is either wild inconsistency from NWS Office to NWS office, or the EF scale really is as outdated as many of us see it to be. This is another fantastic video, sir; well done. Love these!

[@Frus77sh2]

Survey quality is so hit or miss and sloppy. The survey, or lack thereof, from Rochelle still pisses me off to this day. It was like 2-3 days from tornado to official rating despite them missing or ignoring so much damage.

[@BenPat88]

Corruption. Don’t have to like it, but every other govt agency is corrupt as the day is long, yet people naively reject this notion and believe the sacred cow NWS is spared of this most assured disease…

[@jmstudios457]

Joplin was not surveyed well, an ASCE study published in 2013 concluded most of the EF5 damage in Joplin should not have been rated EF5.

[@mjw1978]

@@jmstudios457 yeah, as I understand it, there were several homes that were not very well constructed, which were destroyed and swept away, as well as some other DI’s that likely could have or should have been EF4 or even 3. However, there was definitely very clear EF5 damage down there in Joplin, from the hospital being twisted off its foundation, to the parking stops being ripped out of the lot in front of the hospital, deeply anchored into the pavement with rebar. Scientists from Iowa State University, as well as Ethan here, have already explained the science behind the wind force required to do this, well above 200mph (appx 247-275mph based on Ethan’s expert calculations). But yeah there will always be questions about Joplin MO, Rochelle IL, Greenfield IA, Mayfield KY, and perhaps even Rolling Fork MS. We can discuss these all we want so long as we remember the victims of each other

[@BenPat88]

@@jmstudios457 yea but just one marker is all it takes and it definitely had multiple

[@tornadotrx]

Greenfield was an EF5

[@YoussefPlayzz]

It was a EF-4 cause they probably discontinued EF-5 rating since there is not really much tornadoes going over 200MPH nowadays

[@BenPat88]

@@YoussefPlayzzwrong

[@BerserkEnjoyer636]

@@YoussefPlayzzI mean we literally measured 300 mph+ winds

[@hennytopher]

@@YoussefPlayzz This logic is so erroneous, they literally measured that the tornado had 309-318 mph wind speeds 😭

[@SCP-939-89]

@@YoussefPlayzzThere have been multiple tornadoes with wind speeds over 200 nowadays.

[@ernackgd8395]

A nearly hour long video by june first is such a treat

[@timothyvanhoeck233]

The Greenfield tornado, for all the death and destruction it caused, was also perhaps one of the most striking examples of a multivortex tornado I have ever seen captured on video.

[@justonrosenow]

It reminds me very eerily of Dr. Leigh Orf's supercomputer rendering of the 2011 El Reno EF5. Specifically the spaghetti-like vortices that are visible.

[@justinwilson3922]

@@justonrosenowthe el Reno ef5 was downgraded to a ef3 😂😂😂

[@blacksapphire256]

@@justinwilson3922 That was the 2013 El Reno tornado that was rated EF3.

[@justinwilson3922]

@@blacksapphire256 I said that read the comment

[@oldrusty20]

@@justinwilson3922 Read the comment you replied to first before telling others to do that. the 2011 El Reno EF5 was not downgraded.

[@josephbentley5799]

I live about 3 hours north in iowa and was watching the tornado from its formation until it hit greenfield. It was crazy to see live feed footage of the tornado during hitting the town.

[@dillyboyq]

Happy to hear you mention the injured people and respecting that their lives were changed as well.. often times they’re overlooked and those peoples lives have drastically changed too..

[@wyattl.4023]

As someone who chased and photographed both the tornado from start to finish as well as the damage, thank you for this video. Everyone talks about this tornado, but few go into such analysis about it. Keep up the good work, brother!

[@Tcrror]

I am not a respected member of the chasing community, nor am I a meteorologist, but tornadoes are my passion and have been for about a decade. If Greenfield wasn't an EF-5, might as well downgrade 90% of the F5/EF-5 tornadoes in history to an EF-4's.

[@salvadormuro7346]

I worked on fabricating those blades at 5:26 , 110 meters is nuts when you're up close, but they make 120s also and you wouldn't think it would seem much bigger but wow an extra 10 meters is crazy. those towers are no joke either

[@EthanNeal]

Yeah, I had no idea just how big they are until recently. A lot of blades tend to get shipped up I-15 in Idaho, driving past them sitting in the Hell's Half Acre rest stop made me realize just how massive they are

[@salvadormuro7346]

@@EthanNeal truly a cool piece of technology. Apparently many of those blades will fly for 10+(maybe 20) years and many older models are at 30 years operating

[@lizmarch7165]

​@@EthanNealCrazy, I was just going to comment something very similar. Except, they periodically drive them through my city in Idaho. Usually, it's a temporary blockade in the evening before they start driving them up the grade.

[@salvadormuro7346]

@@lizmarch7165 that’s wild, they’re so long, mad respect to the drivers. In my city the train goes right thru and when they haul these it’s crazy to see blade after blade after blade go by for minutes

[@salvadormuro7346]

The ones flying in the ocean are even larger 😳

[@dannymorgan7252]

It was a 5. There’s something funky going on with these investigation teams moving the goal post when it comes to damage

[@dla_915]

Yes.. many MANY proscribed EF-4 tornadoes could (should) of been rated a 5. At the end of the day, remember the tornadoes don’t care what they’re labeled.. only we do, so it’s likely for some desired psychological effect.

[@waterrocketlab151]

I was recently at an NWA meeting at Des Moines NWS and they talked about this tornado and how it was rated, essentially saying that the buildings were weak enough on that side of town to be destroyed by an EF3. They also said that they couldn’t accurately add parking stops as a damage indicator since there isn’t a category for it. They did say that if new damage indicators come out that perhaps someday it will be rated EF5.

[@collinjamesguitar]

The most egregious one is the Quad State. One of the most intense, organized, and incredible tornadoes/supercells in history. Truly a once in a lifetime event. EF4? Not a chance.

[@carlitosdinkler5213]

@@collinjamesguitar it would be hilarious if the tri state tornado happens again on its 100th year anniversary and they give it ef4 rating

[@hennytopher]

@@waterrocketlab151 That's extremely sketchy.... Unironically moving the Goalpost for that damage indicator...

[@dannyllerenatv8635]

This is probably what the Andover F5 of 1991 must've looked like up close or would've looked like if filmed today.

[@TooMuchFez]

andover f5 is the one with that really crazy military base footage right? i would call the last moments of that one close up for sure

[@dannyllerenatv8635]

@@TooMuchFez Bingo

[@Villiam_07]

Town gets wiped out by 2.5 mile wide tornado...... Nws: must've been the wind.....high end ef3.

[@MauveDash]

Perfect line for the Nws response, of course its the wind!

[@chrisbarnett5303]

homes were poorly bult!

[@k5elevencinc0]

"1 anchor bolt was improperly installed" lol

[@TNS17]

We all know they are withholding the EF5 rating status. They have been for 10 years.

[@LEONKennedyGames]

11

[@jeremiahpaul7795]

Tornado’s should be classified the same way Hurricanes are imo

[@Heathper1214]

What would be the reason for doing that?

[@sweetrocks610]

@@Heathper1214insurance purposes, they have to pay out way more money for ef5 damage than ef4

[@nightmare1010]

@@sweetrocks610 that sounds so fake, the NWS isn't an insurance company, they don't care.

[@slaysorry5617]

I remember the tornado siren going off, I wasn't in Iowa but in Omaha Nebraska. I was outside wrapping my mom's car in blankets; they sky went dark blue and it got extremely windy. Once the storm ended, some of the trees fell with some landing on top of houses. The power was out for about 4-5 days, it was pitch black at night and you can hear generators in the distance. It was nothing I have ever experienced, truly scary.

[@mattkowal90]

Elkhorn, just outside of Omaha had its rating increased from the 4/26 tornado. It was upgraded from EF3 to low-end EF4.

[@melissawalker4093]

I live in Omaha Nebraska off of the interstate. I watch the tornado go into Elkhorn. It was terrifying. My Aunt and Uncle live there.

[@ProffesionalZombie12]

Greatly done. Yeah I thought of it as a tornado with EF5 windspeeds that produced EF4 damage. It was WILD to look at, though. Like, you never really visually SEE the inner workings of a tornado as it's tornadoing, and that one provided it beautifully. Gorgeous and majestic tornado that along any other path, would have just stayed that. But sadly, tragic must also be added to its description.

[@Tcrror]

It did not produce EF-4 damage, though. It produced EF-5 damage, pretty clearly.

[@benwalter4842]

I agree with both comments here.

[@-stewie-]

It produced F5 speeds, but EF4 damage.

[@Tcrror]

@@-stewie- Incorrect.

[@timnewman1172]

I live in the same county, I truly believe this should be rated an EF-5... One example is the across from Casey's, the car lift had anchor bolts pulled out... the power it takes to do that coupled with the DOW measurements taken at the same time convinces me!

[@timnewman1172]

As for the parking stops, yes that was very new construction so it should've been undamaged at the time of the tornado... also interesting to note, all of the fatalities took place in the area north of the hospital.

[@waterrocketlab151]

I was recently at an NWA meeting at Des Moines NWS and they talked about this tornado, essentially saying that the buildings were weak enough on that side of town to be destroyed by an EF3. They also said that they couldn’t accurately add parking stops as a damage indicator since there isn’t a category for it. They did say that if new damage indicators come out that perhaps someday it will be rated EF5.

[@timnewman1172]

​@@waterrocketlab151 they are full of crap... they are getting called out on their bias and they don't like it.

[@waterrocketlab151]

@@timnewman1172 It’s not the end of the world bro. They weren’t angry about it.

[@OrbManson7]

So many of us in the southwest Iowa area just ignore them calling this an ef4 and say it was an ef5. The destruction and windspeeds should have been considered high enough for that rating, nws even flip-flopped between the two ratings that night into the next day, before settling on ef4, despite getting further analysis afterward that could have easily changed that. Don't know why they insist on keeping it at ef4...

[@bluestormchasing]

Awesome video! The tornado was extremely violent during its beginning phase as well. North of Corning was when the tornado got stronger and had the most insane vortices I've ever seen from a multiple vortex. Never will I see a tornado with 300 mph winds ever again.

[@MR.LIAMVR]

The national westher service just seems scared to rate a tornado ef5

[@lordfatcock]

I think insurance companies have a hand in this.

[@jordancobb7553]

I bet it’s an insurance scam at the very top

[@alexcarter2461]

It was definitely an EF5, I refuse to believe that since 2013, there hasn't been one of the hundreds of tornados that one isn't an EF5. Those odds are too good if otherwise.

[@ia1n673]

@@jordancobb7553fema doesn’t ensure more or less based on ef ratings. Y’all need to stop spreading conspiracies that you cannot prove.

[@mattkowal90]

I thought the final rating was EF4 with peak winds of 185 MPH based on damage? Dr. Wurman also went back, along with other OU researchers, and found out that the winds in the 1999 OKC F5 reached 321 MPH, and the 2013 El Reno tornado peaked at 313 MPH. This is regarded as the 3rd strongest with winds of at least 309 even though it is had the probability of up to 318. Yes, we've gone over 11 years without an EF5, but that is not necessarily a good thing. Aside from the 5/31/2013 El Reno, OK beast, I think we've seen as many as five tornadoes that truly did EF5 damage and therefore are EF5. I've had enough of contextual discrepancies. 1.) April 27th, 2014: Mayflower-Vilonia, Arkansas. 2.) April 9th, 2015: Rochelle-Fairdale, Illinois. 3.) December 10th, 2021: Western Kentucky (Cayce, Mayfield, Princeton, Dawson Springs, Bremen). 4.) March 24th, 2023: Rolling Fork, Mississippi. 5.) May 21st, 2024: Greenfield, Iowa.

[@collinjamesguitar]

The NWS has dropped the ball so bad in the last 10 years that it’s almost a joke that the “experts” stand by it almost religiously. Very similar to political parties. The scale is pretty much a lot less accurate than the original. Which they claim the new one was created to be more accurate. Example? Madison TN tornado hit my neighborhood last year. 3 people died down the street. I was in the outer circulation of the tornado. Afterwards, I saw vehicles flipped upside down. NWS tried to say the winds were 125mph. 125mph isn’t enough to completely roll stationary sedans. It’s just not, no matter how you slice it 😂

[@Crustylizardlover]

Elk horn 2024?

[@StormChaserSquadron]

The BEST June first video EVER. Def worth the 10-month wait. All your videos are top-tier, but this high quality…I didn’t think it’s possible but you did it. Thanks Ethan for your hard work. May June First get better and better! RIP to all the lives impacted by this monster twister😢

[@JacobWithACamera]

This was an awesome video, it’s great to see a return to the damage analysis series. I’m glad I could contribute to this video in some way. The destruction was beyond belief and a day doesn’t go by since May 21st where I don’t think about the small town of Greenfield.

[@Salvador_but_he_plays_gd]

31:30 Wasn't parking stops like these used as an unconventional DI to rate Joplin as an EF5?

[@jeffarbogash4269]

yes they where

[@trollerjakthetrollinggod-e7761]

Yes, and the windspeeds were 225-250 mph.

[@rdfox76]

Just another example of post-2013 NWS trying to move the goalposts for the EF scale to require higher construction standards and defeat the purpose of the scale (apples-to-apples statistical analysis of tornado intensity trends). If they want to demand higher construction standards, then note that Ted Fujita himself said that it might be possible, through engineering analysis, to identify F6 damage, and add a new level to the scale to represent such superior standards..

[@natasharufe5180]

Yep and this is a "EF 4"

[@elric5371]

No, 22 homes is what got Joplin ef5.

[@tornadostories]

No one else in the space can do, or does do, these types of videos. They're very interesting and absolutely unique to June First. Superb work. It's great to see Trey, Chris and Celton each with their own mentions too. They all have brilliant channels covering everything from in-depth, high-level meteorological analysis, to top-tier chasing, storytelling and edutainment. We have a thriving KZbin severe weather community!

[@Artfanbookfan25]

Sometimes I'm tempted to think of EF4s as the new 5.

[@Nefertiti0403]

For real though

[@infinitygirl92]

Especially after reading that anchor bolts and foundations where ripped apart in the Rolling Fork tornado.

[@Trahzy]

​@infinitygirl92 The strongest EF5s on April 27 2011 ripped out anchor bolts, cracked foundations, scoured into the ground 2 feet, and even pulled a storm shelter up out of the ground partially. And those tornadoes were moving from 55-65 mph. Definitely the strongest tornadoes in history and we need a damage analysis on them. The Smithville tornado easily had 350-400 mph winds.

[@Techno_Idioto]

@@Trahzy Holy fuck. If that tidbit about the smithville tornado is true, that blows Bridge Creek-Moore out of the water and into the stratosphere in terms of wind-speed records..

[@Trahzy]

@Techno_Idioto It's all true, Smithville, Rainesville, Phil Campbell and Philadelphia (not the city) tornadoes all caused damage far more extreme than the 1999 bridge creek tornado, and they were moving at 55+ mph. They were rural areas so the damage doesn't look as bad and they aren't as famous, but when it comes down to the severity of the damage indicators there's no comparison.

[@isaacplorins6652]

41:14 I was there. The gradient looks sharp, but houses outside of that gradient were still moved off their foundations while staying intact. Winds were still ridiculously strong outside those red lines.

[@jessaphillips2846]

I feel like there’s a case to be made that tornadoes should be rated both by damage and wind, the wind speed recorded would have been an F5 tornado on the old scale, but the damage was only EF4. The idea to rate the wind and damage separately would be great especially when a tornado does not hit the type of building needed to declare EF5 damage. Large swathes of tornado and Dixie alleys lack the sturdy buildings needed to make the assessment.

[@Overseer_Gaming]

I went to Greenfield 2 weeks after the tornado to volunteer we went to this field that had most of the debris from the town in the trees and the ground we also stood right were it went over it was roughly 100yds at that point it was a very humbling experience I truly hope that no else has to experience this kind of destruction

[@hunner3914]

The tail end of May was a crazy outbreak in the US. I had just moved into my apartment and was relaxing at my desk and decided to check the weather. Back in my hometown I noticed a lone cell on radar with a classic hook echo on the southern side of the storm. Immediately I called my friends who were in the direct path, and they were able to take shelter. The next day I drove down to help with damage cleanup and to get their water back and running. While I gave it an EF4 from my own damage analysis, it was given an EF3 (Valley View and Sanger Texas EF3). The Greenfield Iowa and Mayfield Kentucky EF4's are both EF5's that were underrated. I drove through Mayfield this summer on vacation and even nearly 3 years later the town is still completely gutted. The town square has only a couple brick buildings left standing, but has dozens of completely empty lots and slabbed foundations still. A true tragedy and a mark of that storms power.

[@KaileyB616]

Mayfield definitely should've been an EF-5

[@madamecaboose5431]

I always love so many aspects of your videos. The editing, the information, the research, the pacing, it's all great! You also are great at presenting and have a pleasant voice to listen to (we all know those youtube channels where the person's voice is annoying lol). Anyway, been watching your vids for a bit and always love how thorough and high-quality they are in all aspects. You don't just present information, but you analyze and research topics. I'm always surprised to see you have less than 100k subscribers, but I don't think it will be long until more people find your channel!

[@markahrens8084]

This is an AMAZING analysis! Your knowledge of the engineering formulas and application makes me appreciate your channel that much more. Nicely done, sir!

[@brad5349]

Tim Marshall rated parking blocks being torn out of their anchors as an EF5 DI in Joplin yet doesn't here. This guy is responsible for over ruling and downgrading storms that would of got EF5 ratings over the last 10 years. Tuscaloosa, Vilonia, Bremen to name a few.

[@P_RO_]

He's also stated that he could never again assign an EF5 to any slab home even if it was well bolted and well built. He lost my unquestioned respect at that point.

[@bc_7644]

​@P_RO_ where was this said?

[@Easton555]

@ 16:55 that was my suggestion, happy to see it made it in the video!

[@JudgeConviction]

My problem with EF is how it’s entirely dependent on the objects in its path to determine the rating instead of looking at the wind data.

[@bryanwheat9101]

There is no ground level wind data for 99.99 percent of tornados. There is no way to measure most all tornados.

[@TheSkyGuy77]

​@@bryanwheat9101 So Doppler on wheels doesn't exist to you? So storm chasers with their own wind equipment doesn't matter to you?

[@anisvadjian5142]

@@TheSkyGuy77I don’t think that’s the point he’s making. It’s just that the amount of storm chasers and mobile Doppler Radars is not enough to rate *every* tornado by wind speed. Hopefully we crew more of them and also find better indicators of wind-speed when a big one pops up where we aren’t expecting it. A tornado this big and this well predicted… no excuse not to use the data that was collected to rate this specific tornado.

[@TJackson736]

​@anisvadjian5142 wind speed should be used when available. It will give comparisons for tornadoes that don't have the wind speed measurements.

[@anisvadjian5142]

@@TJackson736 yep, that’s what I meant in my last sentence

[@hunner3914]

I'll leave a separate comment about how crazy the 2024 storm season has been for Texas. From the outbreak at the end of May into Hurricane Beryl spawning dozens of tornaodes out east, it has been absolutely crazy. On velocity radar you could see 3 tornadoes tracking north/northwest almost simultaneously as Beryl made landfall. It was truly a sight to behold.

[@nickwilson9512]

I don’t know if there are any other Ragbraiers in this comment section but I’m fairly certain we rode through this town in July, two months after the tornado. There was still damage from the tornado including just the foundation of a house. You hear about these storms on TV all the time but to see the damage they do in person, is a different experience entirely.

[@clutchthecinnamonsergal8493]

What I want to know is why the tornado has such a significant lapse in damage intensity half way through greenfield. Maybe a vortex breakdown? Idk. It just stopped flattening everything for a few streets before picking up again.

[@ThunderClawShocktrix]

thats the sort of thing that on weaker tornado would make people think it skipped houses

[@yolbc]

Absolutely a scary day to live in central Iowa. Watching this forecast unfold in your own neck of the woods, is just a gut wrenching and helpless experience

[@Chefsteakoffical]

I personally lost someone in this tornado I did not know him that much but still knew him. He still passed even when he was in his basement. I was called out of school early because barley anyone knew where it will touch down. Thanks for documenting this tornado. Rest in peace to everyone.

[@christian4688]

I'm sorry you had to experience that.

[@montoyagamerpictures7650]

318mph winds = EF5 Tornado

[@jmcsquared18]

No, not necessarily. Those winds may not have reached ground level and contributed to structural damage. Same goes with the EF3 El Reno tornado. Wind speed varies greatly in tornados as a function of height.

[@Toasterhonk792]

201 MPH is needed to be considered an EF5.

[@TheCasualSirenEnthusiast]

they're too dependent on damage. they don't care about official winds anymore, only assumptions.

[@St3rnbergStudi0z]

Sadly, that's not how the system works. They base the rating how bad thedamage was created is. The Fujita Scale is based solely on the damage done to the environment/human structures. We can see the strong wind speeds, but count it as a lower rating because it didn't affect buildings in the same way. A great example is the 2014 El Reno tornado, which was the widest tornado recorded in the US and had fast winds recorded by a DOW, but only had EF3 level damage on the buildings it hit. The scale is broken, we all know it, but the community let alone the scientists who actually make the scales, can barely start the process of remaking it as we don't know enough about tornadoes to make a truly reasonable scale for them. Sorry for the wall of text but I hope it explains it!!!

[@laurenmatius]

​2013 not 2014, another example of a strong tornado which didn't had EF5 scale was the Rochelle Illinois of 2015 (I hope I write it right)

[@giveaway236ymexs]

Great video dude I've been binge watching your channel and ran out of videos so good thing you posted. I live in Oklahoma more on Dixie alley side and hopefully we don't get to bad of weather this November.

[@LVM5584]

This is an F5 Tornado End of Story. The scale needs fixing. Also with the tornado shrinking and increasing in intensity that’s exactly what the 1990 Hesston F5 did before ecluding. Amazing documentary Ethan.

[@Sharpless2]

Tim Marshall is the "thing" that needs fixing. Hes 95% of the reason why the EF5 rating basically doesnt exist anymore.

[@billguill1859]

If the 2007 Greensburg, KS tornado was the first to use the new EF5 rating, when did the new system get adopted? I know from the TV reports that the last F5 in TX was Jarrell, on 5/27/97, from what I understand.

[@LVM5584]

2007 was when the new scale went into effect.

[@Crustylizardlover]

Matador did the same thing (from what I remember)

[@pjesf]

Ethan, I’d been hoping you’d do an analysis video on this tornado from an engineering perspective. When I see a damage photo, the first questions that come to mind relate to the forces required for it to have occurred. If the thought even crossed your mind that this video might not be well-received for lack of “action footage”, my reaction was the complete opposite. Nice work here 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻

[@WeatherIQ2007]

Ethan makes such amazing videos

[@generalcarville]

Keep up the great work. Love the videos.

[@keithwagg4112]

Love you sharing this with your engineering knowledge/skill! Cool af!! ❤❤❤ Not many people have that combination of engineering and tornado knowledge, you could be a surveyor and give EF ratings

[@danielwieten8617]

Crazy to think about when you first started doing these and the common consensus was “I can’t believe your channel isn’t bigger”, but here we are. Glad to see you getting the recognition you deserve.

[@windwatcher11]

Great analysis. You just earned a sub. I'm sending this to my engineering friends. I thought the wind turbines were the most interesting breakdown, but the parking stops were most poignant. I wonder if Rod D at the DMX CWA has seen these numbers crunched yet??!🎉

[@crazycars81]

1:30 Slight error on your end, It was actually rated as 185 MPH*.

[@IzaChase]

your mistaken

[@IzaChase]

it was remeasured

[@clutchthecinnamonsergal8493]

@@IzaChaseno there’s a 185mph DI

[@blueSky1322]

What are you doing here Car Crash man????

[@Tcrror]

​@@clutchthecinnamonsergal8493Which is absolutely incorrect.

[@dorothygoodon3610]

Thank you for this video. I live in Des Moines, and remember seeing that storm coming towards us and being scared out of my mind. As it was, the mother of a friend/former coworker of mine lost her home in that tornado. There was a picture on Facebook of a piece of mail from Greenfield being found several miles away, and the piece of mail was addressed to my friend’s mom.

[@Nefertiti0403]

During that same time I live in Temple TX and we had two EF2. That was the most terrifying experience.. TERRIFYING

[@evilassaultweaponeer]

Very good presentation, and well done breaking down the development of the forces on structural components for the laymen. One nitpick though: the car lift anchor failure uses the tensile breakout equation, but you mention (and from what I can tell pics corroborate) anchor pullout, I.e. they slipped through the concrete rather than breaking out a cone of it. If I’m not mistaken, those were post installed sleeve anchors, so a pullout like that is by far the most likely failure mode, and with less force than tensile breakout.

[@MLGDouglas]

Great work as always, I know your busy cooking yo great content as always but if you should look into doing a Damage Analysis of Smithville and the New Wren Tornado!!!!

[@StormChaserSquadron]

I’m interested to see New Wren’s supposed EF5 damage the Tornado Talk team surveyed❤and Lynn’s death analysised😢 So astonishing

[@triton115]

1:39 318 mph is an F-5 on both the enhanced and original Fujita scales. In fact, 318 mph is almost an F-6 on the original scale. And an F-6 (319-379 mph) would be capable of inflicting the following kinds of damage; All wood and brick houses hurled from foundations, residential foundations scoured, damage to above ground safe rooms, steel reinforced concrete buildings blown down. Collapse of highway overpasses, elevated roads, and multi story concrete parking garages, structural damage to underground storm cellars and viaducts. An F-6 would completely flatten multi story apartment buildings of brick construction, school buildings would be blown down, shopping malls would be heavily damaged if not also blown down, an F-6 would cause roughly the same kind of damage that was caused by the earthquake that shook Kobe, Japan in 1995.

[@Crustylizardlover]

If this tornado intensified while in greenfield, it would’ve been hell, just like Jarrell (except worse)

[@Crazythang54]

One of the scariest days of my life. Lots of families were impacted that day. One story, from a friends step brother, a kid was home alone waiting for his dad when the sirens went off in Greenfield, IA. His dad was rushing home seeing a tornado on radar heading for his home where his son was home alone. When he arrived at his home the tornado was ripping his roof and garage to shreds right in front of his eyes. A 2 by 4 fell on him pinning him just outside his garage, when he opened his eyes and looked up he could see his son standing in fear on the second story where the entire face of the house was missing. Both were okay and survived. God bless all those affected by weather this year.

[@SevereWeatherCenter]

At 3:31 the path of the tornado goes straight over a house that is on the road that is going perpendicular to the path of the tornado, and there is no damage rating for that house.

[@benjaminwitte5184]

Just a thought: lets assume those lofted vehicles (the white pick up truck that landed on its side, etc etc) were parked in the spots in question. Could we also assume that the force of the wind against those vehicles pushed the vehicles against the parking lot stops (fulcrum), forcing them against and damaging them, allowing the wind to loft the vehicles in like a pivoting motion? And that lofting force was linear and verticle in nature which would explain the parking lot stops positions and why some vehicles were relocated? Hopefully i was able to explain/convey my question enough.

[@BType13X2]

Those lot stops are meant for vehicles to drive right up against them day in and day out. A vehicles tires being pushed up against it wont damage them or weaken them. What will damage them is being nailed by debris repeatedly which is not the damage we saw.

[@benjaminwitte5184]

@@BType13X2 I understand how they work on the other 364 days of the year, but on the 365th day, could/would a parked vehicle being shoved by hypothetically EF 4 winds, 166-200mph, be able to account for that damage? It's just cast concrete, "held" in place by what looks to be 3/4" rebar stubbed out of a hole in the asphalt. I don't think they're engineered to withstand a 5500lb +/- truck pirouetting off of them.

[@BType13X2]

@benjaminwitte5184 I'd say yes cause I've seen idiots in large trucks run over them, and they stayed right where they were. It doesn't matter if its a truck driving itself over those stops or a tornado pushing a truck up against the stop them lofting it over, the same rules apply. It takes a lot to pull those off and consider that the parking stops being removed uniformly was part of the contextual damage that supported Joplins' ef5 rating.

[@P_RO_]

I thought the same thing, but with most of today's cars being low, there would likely have been signs of body or frame contact at the top of the stops, which I didn't see in the photos. Still, if there had been a car there you'd get increased wind velocities similar to what happens with underpasses, so that might alter the results seen. Regardless it's mind-boggling to see these dislodged by 'mere' wind.

[@BType13X2]

@@P_RO_ The car's / trucks would be lofted way before the windtunnel affect would have any meaningful affect. The vehicles likely made minimal contact if any with the parking stops before they were tossed away. Maybe they bumped the wheels a few times against them and then flew away right after. The wind speed required to loft a vehicle is a lot lower than most people would think, like an EF2 can do it fairly reliably.

[@zak6235]

The work and effort you put into these damage analysis is incredible keep it up man you’re amazing!

[@The_Ineffable_Bentley]

This past storm season was brutal for Iowa, it felt like we were constantly under tornado warnings. I remember watching this storm on Ryan Halls stream, and my jaw was just on the floor. May everyone who was lost that day rest easy wherever we go when our time is up.

[@rainamosFN]

This monster of a tornado was only a day before my birthday. RIP to anybody that died in this tragic event 🕊️🙏

[@HistoryNerd808]

Kind of crazy how it feels more personal that way, honestly. Haven't had a tornado on mine personally but I always remember Joplin because it happened on my Mom's.

[@supra_derp]

For the concrete parking barriers, wouldn't the angled tops of those barriers provide some form of downforce? The equation seemed to assume the wind impacting a flat surface, but the tops of the barriers are angled at what looks like about 45° on the wind facing and opposite sides of the barriers. How would that impact the equation?

[@windwatcher11]

I thought of this too; I'm not an engineer, so i can't confidently number crunch that change. My instinct tells me it would increase the velocity estimation, however. Another viewer mentioned that if the concrete was new enough, and not 100% cured, that would decrease the velocity. A lot we still don't have pinned down.

[@P_RO_]

That would make a difference, but IMHO it's not significant enough to change the results much. Also consider that while the upwind angle creates downforce, a la Bernouli the downwind side would have a roughly equal lifting force countering that.

[@windwatcher11]

@@P_RO_ I like that. Makes sense! Nice and symmetrical.

[@kylerichards2610]

Your knowledge on this is amazing. I love your work and I’m envious of your conceptual understanding of this! Very informative!

[@Westguitar683]

The NWS is very inconsistent in their methods for ranking. They ranked Greenfield lower because it only produced EF4 damage, even though at EF5 level wind speeds. But if you also look at tornadoes like Mayfield for instance, that tornado undoubtedly inflicted EF5 damage, but it was ranked lower because of the lower wind speeds. So which is it?

[@quitilysm]

When I saw the damage for the first time I was SHOOK.

[@neekorobison1458]

Vorticity stretching here was absolutely incredible. Heart goes out to those impacted by such a force of nature

[@2DSTORMS]

Great forensic damage analysis! I cannot imagine being in a structure right next to that path. I would love to see a cctv video in Greenfield

[@kylem2836]

Thank you for these in depth documentaries. Truly amazing quality 🙌

[@anemicroyaltywx]

amazing video as always!

[@captainrex2737]

This dude deserves way more subs and attention this is some of the best weather content on KZbin

[@puppypoet]

Me and my 11 year old son watched this tornado form live on Max Velocity's live stream. We were so excited to watch a tornado form live, and then I watched it's entire life cycle. We prayed during it's eating Greenfield and then I felt so guilty for being in awe of the tornado and thinking it was so beautiful. My husband said tornadoes are like spiders - they are beautiful and deadly.

[@rektspresso7288]

Only like 0.01% of spiders are medically significant to humans, calling them deadly in general is very inaccurate

[@nyanbinary1717]

I did not understand most of this, but I just have to say how much I appreciate someone who nerds out enough to hunt down the model and data sheet for a wind turbine.

[@weatherjediplays]

question there, Ethan? my cat was acting bezerk that day. I live 95 miles from ene from Greenfield as the crow flies. he went to the vet for his annual shots and physical. his attitude and his behavior wasn't normal for him. Even with the sedative, do think you the cape, atmospheric factors, and weather had something to do with this. he's mostly calm, and he will be next month, which means he is a border senior citizen cat. did his bizarre behavior that was a sign of danger.

[@jenniferkubik478]

Probably. Animals sense a change in the weather and atmosphere. Your cat knew something was wrong even almost 100 miles away.

[@gregg3666]

Ethan, Great work. Yep, I know the PIA comment. I don't know if it matters much ( not and engineer), but parking stops don't sit completely on the ground. So, from a friction standpoint, your computations might be flawed a bit. Most have 3 points of contact and small gaps between the parking bumper and the ground. The reason for this is to allow water to pass under and not pool up and need to go around the bumper. This will probably affect the wind speed needed to break them. Maybe it isn't enough to matter much, but I think you missed it. Again, great video!!!!

[@P_RO_]

Most parking stops are flat-bottomed, but a few I've seen had drainage channels molded in. Given their length and the fact that slabs are never perfectly level everywhere not much water can accumulate there so there's no need to compensate for that.

[@ElvenElle]

Honestly entirely convinced that someone is paying off the NWS to make sure they never rate another EF5. First Mayfield then this.

[@christian4688]

Vilonia 2014 especially

[@StoutShako]

I've been watching so many of these videos, I'm actually starting to get nightmares about tornadoes now... 😅

[@N5KDA]

As a retired police officer and traffic crash reconstructionist, I can tell you from experience, some of the damage to the parking curbs could have been form prior to the storm. People have a tendency to drive their vehicles against these curbs until the forward motion of their vehicle stops. That's the reason there is a piece of rebar on each end of the curbs. Of course, if it wasn't there people would push the curbs off of the slab. I would bet some of the cracking is from stress induced by the front wheels of vehicles being parked. How much? That of course is impossible to say.

[@junefirst]

My father is a retired reconstructionist in law enforcement as well. A tough job with so much tragedy around it…

[@gfear24]

This is one of the things I've been calling for since the May 31, 2013 El Reno, Okla., tornado. There were recorded winds (also by the D.O.W) at nearly 300mph. As the science of observing weather conditions evolves, so should how tornadic storms are graded. It's past time to re-enhance the Fujita scale to include Doppler radar observed wind speeds when possible.

[@Jason-ly2nq]

Great video!! Loved all the extra thoughts on the parking bullards. Those cars are nuts!

[@KieraCameron514]

I'm not sure why the wind speeds indicating by damage surveys cannot be averaged with RADAR indicated wind speed. Say, the damage indicators say the wind speed is 190 miles per hour, but the RADAR says 318 miles per hour. Well, add those two numbers together to get 508, then divide by 2 to get 254.

[@KkKkk-vy6dj]

Not how it works, jusy because the radar says iys 318 mph doesnt mean those winds are at ground level, yes they where probably over 300 mph, but they werent at ground level. Also, nws only rates the damage of a tornado and not it winds, you can have a 300 mph tornado in a field, but if it doesnt hit anything besides bushes and grass, then it will be rated ef1 to ef2.

[@TheSkyGuy77]

The radar only detects air a couple hundred feet above the ground, meaning it misses the full tornadic circulation most of the time due to the Earth's curvature. The radar can say 400 mph at 2,000 feet off the ground, but the real winds at the surface only be 85 mph. That's why wind measured by MOST radars is unreliable.

[@WendellLegendaryGamer]

Insane video bro. You have some great talent!

[@pamelabriles478]

As always… fantastic work. Thanks again! ❤❤❤

[@nllsnclr]

finally I been waiting for a video like this, literally Iowa was getting clapped from tornados and floods. I just remember not knowing how bad the storm was until hours later

[@KennethProm]

Thank you, Ethan. The parking lot in question, were you ever able to verify if cars were parked up against those parking barriers? The force on the cars, if in fact they were moved beyond the parking lot, could certainly explain failures but still not have impact damage. Enjoyed the video and will discuss it with my son. See "eyes to the sky's". Ken P, Mn

[@hazzard_destroyer]

I think the EF scale needs to be updated and take max wind speeds into consideration. That’s just my opinion but no matter what we must focus on what matters most and that’s the people that were affected

[@BlackburnMedia]

I was here a few days ago while delivering AMXL packages. There is still a big chunk of town missing. But every time I come to Greenfield there is the eerie feeling that looms over the town.

[@AndrewLee-zk1ko]

When you are using the density of air, are you making an assumption of the virtual temperature and pressure inside the tornado using the formula rho= P/RdTv, or are you using the approximate density of usual air of around 1.225 kg/m^3? Since the density of air inside a tornado can be 3 to 4 times less dense than surrounding air, also just factoring in how more moisture (higher humidity) also decreases density, I feel this could be semi-important and could have upped the calculated wind speed (vw). Just lowering the assumed value of 1.225 kg/m^3 to 1.000 kg/m^3, the calculated wind speed for the wind knocking over the wind turbines would've been around 128 mph. I know it is very difficult to find out what the pressure/virtual temperature was when it was knocked over, but we know as it was near or even in the tornado at the time that the air density was less (and probably by some distance) than 1.225 Kg/m^3.

[@Easton555]

Another amazing video!

[@DigiEvoluido]

I still don't understand why radar readings are not used to determine EF ratings, it's just a better tool (if available) than damage analysis

[@bryanwheat9101]

Because radar doesn't measure at ground level. Mobile radar can get closer to the ground but we can't measure every tornado with mobile radar .

[@DigiEvoluido]

@@bryanwheat9101 I don't mean every tornado but the ones that mobile can measure

[@bryanwheat9101]

@@DigiEvoluido so like .01 percent of tornados. It really doesn't even matter what they rate it at honest.

[@colesunwood1656]

The fact the EF scale almost requires an ef-5 to hit a populated area is crazy to me

[@salicaguillotines]

That almost needs its own damage criterion since rural vs urban tornados are in different conditions. For one, you could have 2 identical tornados one in the metropolis and the other in the boonies, the debris signature is going to be a lot larger in the metro than the one that doesn't. This could also factor in other damage indicators or whether the damage is caused by debris or the tornado itself. There simply isn't the structures available _to damage_ despite having the capacity to. The fact that something must be utterly destroyed - ex neighbourhood of slabbed homes in order to justify such a rating. It would be more fitting to have an impact scale (to assess how people were directly affected) and a more theoretical scale used to determine capacity to cause damage based on raw data.

[@moosewhisker8072]

I think it’s also important to note for the 2nd and 4th DI analysis that the wind may not be blowing perfectly perpendicular to the direction of the failures. The estimated wind speeds are just the lower bounds of what the true wind speed may have been.

[@JJfromPhilly67]

Very interesting video. Tornadoes are extremely fickle in how it inflicts damage on a location. One house on a whole block may be obliterated while the rest have minimal damage. A whole street can be wiped out, but a piece of artwork at the end of the block remains pristine.

[@max410bery]

I remember going north to Stuart, IA, near Greenfield a few days after this tornado. There was debre just in the middle of a field, nothing around that looked to be metal like that. It was crazy to watch happen live and know its so close 😳

[@SIGINT007]

The car lift is usually installed with threaded rod into concrete anchors...they are not bolts with a head.

[@sweetrocks610]

It should’ve been ef5, there were ef5 di’s but NWS has been withholding the ef5 rating for years because of how the insurance works…

[@not_kjb]

False

[@TheSkyGuy77]

That's not how insurance works

[@ExtremeEpicChaos]

4 Hours ago is crazy! Just now getting into meteorology and it's awesome to see something so recent on my feed.

[@DeadeyeJim327]

With regards to the uprooted car lift, a factor you may have missed is whether it had been holding a vehicle when destroyed. The wind could take it off and easily damage the lift in the process. Was it locked in the up position? If so, it might be possible to determine the make and model if the paperwork has been uploaded to an offsite backup.