Was I unfair to FreeCAD?

[@andreas.grundler]

As a Linux user, I don't really have much choice of software. Either FreeCAD, Blender or web-based CAD programs. So I am grateful that FreeCAD exists. It has been sufficient for my needs so far.

[@StarkRG]

Even if I was on Windows, I don't do software-as-a-service, I pay for a licence and I use it forever. Also, I'm poor, so even the few options that do have such licenses are usually way too expensive. So far I've been getting by with SCAD, but I want to try to get into FreeCAD since SCAD takes a lot of brain power.

[@urgon6321]

As a Windows user I don't have to punish myself with mediocre software developed by people who never heard about user experience...

[@boardboyd]

Plasticity has a Linux build, but I haven't tried it on Linux yet

[@ThiVitorino13]

@@boardboyd it works great!

[@zyeborm]

There are quite a few ways of running fusion on Linux. Onshape runs in browser. The are paid options if you need.

[@zeonino]

All of these comments here really remind me of comments for Blender 10 years or so ago. Open source always starts off pretty rough as it's just a passion project at first. Once it develops a critical mass of people that really start using it on a day to day basis, it matures very quickly.

[@srilemobitelsrile8809]

Few thing that I would like for FreeCAD. It needs to simplify the buttons. Make it that has "Office" ribbon. Explain errors and what caused it.

[@cccccccc]

Blender is 30 years old and Freecad is only 21. Yeah, it needs just a few more years to mature.

[@andrewwakefield4519]

@@srilemobitelsrile8809 Noooo, please no on the Office ribbon interface. I detest the ribbon! Personal preference, of course, but in this case, a very passionate personal preference!

[@youtubehandlesux]

​@@ccccccccBlender is really only 6 years old if you only count the time it has a functional UI

[@nWestie]

​@@youtubehandlesuxthat's kinda his point... Blender's been around for ages, but was laughed at for a really long time. Once it gained the momentum with those interface changes, etc, it was able to actually take off

[@philip_fletcher]

"Yes, it might disappear at any time, so don't expect your CAD files to last forever." And therein lies the crux of the issue. I very nearly migrated from OpenSCAD to Fusion 360 but it was just at the point Autodesk 'locked in' all the users CAD models - effectively holding other people's property to ransom. For all it's faults, FreeCAD is very, very capable and currently has a huge momentum behind it. I would wholeheartedly recommend it to beginners now because by the time they become 'experts', FreeCAD will have matured further. There are quirks in all CAD packages but at least in FreeCAD, you will always be the owner of your hard work.

[@deltafactory]

This combined with their infeasible pricing model for small scale commercial uses is why I'm slogging through the FreeCAD experience. Now if only there was a well-supported parametric CAD file format to support migration..

[@SanderMakes]

Hard disagree with the beginners parts. If the beginner is already linux user tech savvy, by all means recommend FreeCAD, but having beginners not understand parametric design to begin with, now you're adding the instability of the design to the instability of FreeCAD. That's unfair to the beginner, who might be turned away from 3D modelling entirely, and to FreeCAD itself, because it's getting a worse rep. EDIT: I do agree with most of what you said, it's a problem. At my local maker space, we did a challenge of using FreeCAD for a month and a lot of people failed. They went "Yeah I can either do it in in 30min, get the design to the printer so I can prototype my design tonight, or I can spend the entire evening working around error messages." And these are dedicated tinkerers who like that kind of stuff.

[@mattw7949]

This. AutoDesk is the devil.

[@philip_fletcher]

@@SanderMakes I migrated from OpenSCAD to FreeCAD and although I've had some issues, I've not really struggled with it - admittedly, I knew about the TNP from my research into which CAD package to migrate to. If people are saying "I can do that in 30 mins in CAD pacjage X", they are probably trying to make FreeCAD work the same way as their old package - which is highly likely to end in tears! Easiest way to use FreeCAD is to try avoid sketches on faces, use a spreadsheet to offset those sketches and only add the pretty stuff (fillets etc) at the end. That said, the TNP should be all but gone in the next release.

[@-Kal-]

​@mattw7949 Pure evil. Between FreeCAD, OpenSCAD and Blender I no longer feel any desire to go back to Fusion. They're not quite as easy for beginners but CAD is more about knowledge of the fundamentals anyway. Maybe it's better not to have an easy crutch when starting out. A bonus is never having to worry about servers going down during a work project (true story).

[@Schmogel92]

Once 1.0 drops you should try it again. The big issue you describe is called "toponaming problem" and they implemented a solution from some other FreeCAD fork! Not sure how much longer until 1.0 drops but just a couple days they entered a feature freeze for 1.0 so now only bugs will be fixed.

[@MakersMuse]

I will, whenever that happens!

[@user-fr3hy9uh6y]

I saw a demo of the naming fix on another channel. I can't wait to download it.😊

[@Schmogel92]

@@MakersMuse Looking forward to it! Both 1.0 and your video about it

[@robonator2945]

I have never heard it called "toponaming". Topological naming yes, but I've never heard anyone try to shorten it down to "toponaming"

[@CodeWithNode]

@@MakersMuse Merge day is scheduled for June 24th

[@JohnUllrey]

Been using FreeCAD for years because I only use Linux at home and also don't like the the licensing restrictions of the "Free" versions of commercial CAD software. I regularly break my models and have to delete each change back to what is broken and then reapply all the changes again. (I make notes in a notepad as I delete the features.) Even with all of it's quirks I will continue to use FreeCAD because at this point it is all I know and the prospect of leaning a new workflow just seems like too much work. Wow, it just dawned on me that it sounds like I'm justifying staying in an abusive relationship because it is all I know and and I'm afraid to start over. ;-)

[@martinmckee5333]

I use Fusion 360 at work and FreeCAD at home, because I actually prefer it. I have learned how to build in Part Design so that I rarely break models any longer (I mostly avoid referencing faces) so one of the major complaints is reduced. Still, I would absolutely agree that Fusion 360 is more polished and stable in almost all cases. I don't understand the hate that FreeCAD gets so often though. It's far from perfect, but it's extremely powerful (providing things like FEA, CFD, and CAM integration), and completely free and open. Price/functionality-wise it's pretty impressive.

[@julienboucaron9780]

I have a similar 'abusive' experience with it too. Sometimes, you update something and a cut is broken in a middle of hierarchy, you have to delete some nodes from the top until reaching the cut, then you rebuild the deleted nodes and voila.

[@pewi9134]

Maybe the spreadsheet workbench in FreeCad can help you to recover with less effort.

[@comentator4481]

Abusive are all the cloud providers, you are 100% correct. All cloud providers use Ai now to look at your stuff, for multitude of reasons, security, idea picking, you name it. MM is getting kickbacks for pushing cloud.

[@falxonPSN]

At some point you have to question how much frustration is worth the value of your time. And while some of the free software restrictions do suck, it sucks less than wasting hours of your personal life.

[@hansmaulwurf8027]

When fusion limited the hobby license I started to learn FreeCAD. It still needs a lot of love. They are working on having a more stable object. Each time you change something in the past names of features get recalculated. A line you referenced by name might now be somewhere else. Not many CAD software is running on Linux. I rather donate money to freeCAD instead to subscription.

[@SSSnackEater]

From my experience, I learnt two points that are very important to avoid breaking the model when modifying the previous steps. 1. Use the built-in spreadsheet feature to store all your parameters so that you can go back to the spreadsheet to change parameter instead of going back to the sketch. It will be painful to name all parameters but you can draft on paper and mark them a, b, c, etc. 2. Try your best to make every steps independent of the previous steps. E.g. adding fillet or chamfer at the very last steps. And instead of using the edges or surface built from the previous steps, you can copy and paste the sketch and edit the copied version. Since the parameters are based on the spreadsheet, you can always change the parameter on the spreadsheet and all sketches will be changed. That's how the spreadsheet you created can help.

[@harryhino2267]

Sounds a lot like "Top down design" using "skeleton sketches" recommended by SolidWorks professionals.

[@Battojutsu]

We've gotten to the point where it's like comparing Solidworks to Catia. Yes, the OS is more like the SW, both are really intuitive with a low learning curve. But this does not in any way mean that FC is full of "bugs", as it may not turn out to be minimalist and addressing "any fancy feature" as a bug is really inappropriate. Furthermore, he doesn't even use the commands or steps section properly. So this is like the battle of eons between Catia and SW, FC or Catia are more for knowledge enthusiasts while OS or SW are for general people.

[@bengerber4542]

You have to be careful with point 1. If you use a spreadsheet variable more than a few times, then it begins to kill itself on recomputes, recomputing can take upwards of 5 minutes on bigger model. It doesn't just recompute when you change something either, oh no. It recomputes when you click on a cell in the spreadsheet to begin to edit it, for some baffling reason. So you have to recompute the entire model at least 2 times before changing a parameter. That being said, you can use the spreadsheet cells as variables by setting an alias and then use .variableAlias to call it. Combining this with expressions is very handy. I exclusively use freeCAD and a lot of people dunk on it for being unintuitive, but it is very powerful, even if it has some terrible behavior choices.

[@RobertA-hq3vz]

I generally avoid all these editing issues by creating new sketches on Datum Planes. Instead of clicking on the face of a previous Pad and creating a sketch, I click on the face and create a Datum Plane. Then I put a sketch on that Plane. It has the effect of making the new sketch independent of the previous sketch. At least I think that's how it works. When I first started using Freecad I liked it until I started editing and everything would fall apart. Eventually I stumbled on this Datum plane technique which seems to serve me well for the most part.

[@ujang0711]

Thank you for this

[@clytle374]

I totally agree. But it is usually easy to reattach sketches when you break attach points. I became proficient in it before I realized datum planes are better in many ways. I often know more about where I want a pad to end rather than begin. So I can create a sketch on a datum plane and then pad back to my existing body. If I change the existing body the endpoint doesn't change.

[@Andreas-gh6is]

Yep. And you can also reuse constraints... for example "Sketch001.Constraints.my_length" (I may be wrong). You can also reuse the extrusion length of a pad with 'Pad001.Length'. Those are some ways to avoid houses of cards.

[@whackstro5184]

I recently discovered datum planes via tutorial, they work great!

[@3dparts4u-allvisuals4u]

FreeCAD has a steep learning curve and need workarounds for several problems you don't see in other paid CAD software. Like Topological Naming Problem (errors after changing earlier features), Chamfers that must be 0.01 smaller than the height of the solid to fully bevel a side and using multiple workbenches for different features for example. But as a free software, I think it's very worth it! FreeCAD also make progress over time, so it keeps getting better.

[@addmix]

To be fair, the chamfer and workbench issues you mentioned are the same with Fusion 360

[@3dparts4u-allvisuals4u]

@@addmix ok, I did not know (expected) that from Autodesk. Especially the Fillet thing, because in Inventor it works fine. Thanks for clearing up!

[@iliketoast-q9b]

@@addmix No it isn't. Chamfers can be finicky in Fusion, but it won't crash nearly as much as FreeCAD and if it does will at least recover your progress up to the crash.

[@AviatorXD]

Version 1.0 is out, i beg of you to make a video on it, i would love to see how's the program going.

[@Minty1337]

i personally use freeCAD as my main CAD software, it's free (obviously), and local, if my internet fails or something happens to my accounts, then i still have all of my models and software

[@MisterMakerNL]

Thanks for you review! I also didn't liked how the old Freecad looked, so I made the new default themes that are now in Freecad. If other viewers think something sucks, please come and help! Together we can beat big corp CAD! Viva la resistance! There is a big theme's update waiting for 1.0, so stay tuned!

[@ciriousjoker]

Not sure if this is part of the theme, but I really don't like the icons. Keep in mind I haven't actually used FreeCAD at all yet, I'm purely a software developer who wants to try it out at some point in the future. - The bottom row after the first group looks pretty good, but the other ones look really dated imo, I'm mainly talking about those here - Visual weight of icons isn't consistent - Why is there an orange sheep with weird asymmetrical eyes? wtf? - First icon: white page with yellow thing on it. New file? Yellow hard to see on white - There are 3 icons with some sort of magnifying glass. No clue what the difference could be. - Some grouped icons have the same colors, but other groups seem completely arbitrary I know this might come off as completely shallow, but it's the little polish that goes a long way when attracting new users. I understand that finding a consistent icon set that looks good and also covers the unique 3d aspects of the program is really difficult though. Iconography for any other software is probably much easier.

[@janosszabo98]

Sorry sir, but I tried freecad a few weeks ago, and the fact that none of the dark themes were without issues was a deal breaker for me and deleted the whole thing within minutes. Pretty sure it's customizable, but those config files get lost or it doesn't help if you're on a different computer. I'd put the UI even in front of functionality of the program. You can have the best software ever made, but if it's not useable, it might as well not exist at all. If something is easy to use and have a clean UI, I'm more willing to put up with some functionality shortfalls. But maybe that's just me.

[@ransombot]

Hopefully theming on windows get's some work because the nightly for it it's white on white even in dark mode on the nightly. Thanks for your work on FreeCAD though appreciate people donating their time to opensource projects.

[@ciriousjoker]

I have used free and by now. The icons are still ugly, but they do their job. Unfortunately everything seems to break whenever I make changes to early parts...

[@soundspark]

@@ransombot They will probably want to upgrade to Qt6. This can support automatic dark mode at the expense of dropping the Windows 7 holdouts.

[@cimmerian100]

I recommend Engineering Maths' videos for FreeCAD models that don't break. I've been using his workflow and while it takes a bit longer to setup the results are worth it - once you get the hang of using Master Sketches / Datum Planes you wont get any more broken models. That said the toponaming fixes in 1.0 will be a gamechanger.

[@dougaltolan3017]

Until you need to move 2 features at the same time to avoid breaking the single continuous solid requirement.

[@cimmerian100]

​@@dougaltolan3017 Depends on how careful you are when doing your masters / datum planes. Obviously that gets more difficult as your project gets more complex.

[@superdau]

@@dougaltolan3017 That's one of the reasons why I do like the "Part" workflow a lot more than the "Part Design" workflow. Although my main reason to use the "Part" workbench over "Part Design" is that it plays way nicer with other workbenches and the tree like structure plays way nicer with my brain than the linear flow of "Part Design".

[@user-sq5bw2fc4n]

And check out MangoJelly Solutions for FreeCAD videos. He is excellent at teaching workflows and demystifying the advanced features of Freecad that many don't know exist.

[@timb1648]

Thanks for going into this. I've been using FreeCAD for a little while, it's been basically my 1st CAD experience and have run into these history type issues when changing old geometry. I thought it was me.

[@jakobhansen1396]

Nope, but it also happens in other softwares they are often better at catching it but debugging becomes more random

[@martinmckee5333]

​@@jakobhansen1396I think you make a good point here. Fusion 360, for instance, often has references break if you make changes, but it saves references so that the whole model doesn't break - the parametric connection, however, may be broken so that relative positioning can break as well.

[@KirinDave]

Seeing someone confront the topological naming problem for the first time is strange. Its nostalgic, but not cozy. Its like that feeling you get when you realize someone else got sick off of whatever you just had

[@AndrewWorkshop]

Every so often I try FreeCAD again, thinking it must have gotten better and every time i lose my mind. I really want it to be more popular but it drives me crazy and i give up.

[@MichaelTavel]

You and me both. I keep wanting to like it. I sink another few hours into it every 2-3 months.... instead it just reminds me how it was put on this Earth to frustrate me and steal lifeforce from me. Then I just go right back to Fusion and it feels like magic from the future.

[@widget5963]

I had the same conclusion with KiCAD once a few years back. After a couple years, came back, and wow was it actually really good. OpenSCAD has similarly made large improvements, although you don't really do any editing in OpenSCAD itself. It's a bit unfortunate that FreeCAD hasn't seen a similar transformation.

[@ryan_nstuff]

@@MichaelTavel It's just a matter that freecad is made by a bunch of volunteers, and fusion is backed by a ton of money and companies. With the development of Ondsel(a company developing on top of freecad) things are already getting immensely better. That said, once you get passed the initial learning curve of freecad basically everything you can do in fusion you can do in freecad.

[@rainmannoodles]

@@MichaelTavel Isn’t it sad that Fusion (which is itself a truly garbage-tier crapfest) is still so much better than FreeCAD?

[@evanbarnes9984]

​@@rainmannoodlesI mean I used to use Fusion professionally until we switched to Onshape, and I've got to say, I like Fusion more. Both are fine, and I get by. But I swear that the developers of all these programs must not actually use them, because they leave major bugs and usability problems in place for like a decade. I really want to use and like FreeCAD, but I'm not looking for a premature afterlife punishment.

[@Stolz3D]

I have to say that I'm really impressed by your efforts to give FreeCAD another try. Of course FreeCAD is far from being perfect, but at least now you know what the current state of the software is and so you can talk about the issues and problems with it in more detail and in the long run this will hopefully lead to many new people finding interest in FreeCAD and some of them will contribute to improving it over time. Because I am convinced that it can be beneficial for all of us users, manufacturers, hobbyists, teachers, students etc. to have a great, working and polished free and open source CAD system. Thanks for your work.

[@shayes.x]

Ondsel being a FreeCAD downstream is neat, they seem to be pushing for upstream improvements which will better both products over time. Ondsel having an optional paid model is useful to drive the project as well.

[@StupidusMaximusTheFirst]

True. It shouldn't have to be this way, if your business is using free and open source software and you are making money off it, then maybe you should donate to and help the project, but yeah, most businesses are looking for freebies, anything they can get for free they will do so, even if they are making a profit off it, so if that's a way to fund the project, why not.

[@rubiskelter]

@@StupidusMaximusTheFirst Making upstream contributions is an amazing way of paying back for using the code.

[@falxonPSN]

​@@StupidusMaximusTheFirstI would argue that that's not necessarily true. Look at the studios who are using blender and contributing towards it. I think what you'll find on the contrary is that no actual businesses are using freeCAD because of all the issues.

[@mauritsvw]

Unfortunately Ondsel is closing down.

[@TheRealClutch1010]

The fillet broke due to topological naming changes. You created new geometry and the fillet is not attached to edges that are named differently now. FreeCAD is very aware of this and is working to correct this and make it more straight forward to work. FreeCAD, for being a free and open source project, is a decent package. I don't believe it is ready for users new to CAD, but once you start to learn some best practices it can be made to work. It is nice to see your re-examination of FreeCAD and I agree with your assessments. Luckily the community for FreeCAD is continuing to grow and there are great things on the horizon.

[@drstefankrank]

I was new to CAD and I started with FreeCAD. Being aware of the issues is currently needed. It may not be as easy as some other non-free Software, but I'm happily accepting that for the reason of true freedom.

[@MarkFraserWeather]

With the latest dev versions it does at least put a '?' before a broken chamfer or fillet.

[@rainmannoodles]

The fact the TNP patch only solves one very specific failure mode out of many proves that the developers don’t know what they’re doing. A fundamental flaw in the geometry kernel is absolutely inexcusable when that is literally the entire purpose of the software.

[@hanswurst9866]

It's a bit baffling how people told him the exact same things in the last video's comments and he just refuses to learn.

[@zeendaniels5809]

I think FreeCAD is best suited for someone new... Because if you are already used to some CAD package trying to get rid of licenses and subscriptions, there's really no going back, the learning curve will be unbearable. Personal experience.

[@louisbrill891]

"I'll laugh, I'll cry, I might throw a chair across the room". Thats been my experience with freecad too lol.

[@raegun]

I tried doing the nightly builds for a while, the most annoying thing being that there's no guarantee the project will work properly from one build to the next. That's what stables are for. As such, if you want to create something you're reasonably sure you can reopen and tinker on in the future, it's not _currently_ possible.

[@briannewman6216]

Freecad should currently be predominately used for relatively simple designs given its current level of development. Having said this, Freecad is continuously being improved so at some stage it should be a viable option for complex designs. A stable version with the topographical naming problem resolved should be released in the not too distant future. The chamfer and fillet functions are currently not stable so a design can be saved prior to adding these finishing operations and then a finished design done with these two operations. This allows the unfinished design to be changed without the chamfer and fillet functions breaking the design. Maybe this finishing function problem could also be fixed at some stage in the future.

[@frogsareop5623]

This is the Linux paradox exactly. "It's always being worked on, so eventually it will be viable." Maybe it already is or will be for some people, but for the overwhelming majority of people/situations, it still pales in comparison to professionally made, closed source software, which really sucks.

[@foldionepapyrus3441]

I'd personally say for quite some time FreeCAD is actually one of if not the best CAD system for the more complex models - the way it does parametric models with that spreadsheet is very powerful and stands out against the competition, though such complex models are always hard and have a serious amount of thinking required to make them work properly still. Its just that middle ground of more complex than really basic but not worth putting in the effort to think through the model and really use best practices to get that high quality complex CAD project result that FreeCAD is trickier to deal with.

[@Appregator]

I'd say it can do complex designs pretty well. So long as you know the workflow of the current version. In fact it is a bit too complex and covers ground in Workbenches that each takes some learning to get to know.

[@xankersmith9194]

You're almost right with that example, but you still don't get the freecad workflow. You wouldn't save it then change it. Instead you would make a rough part in the part-design workbench, then generate a copy in the parts work-bench and add the fillets there. Your design might break with later revisions, but all of it can be contained in freecad. Freecad has multiple workbenches for a reason, and part-design is only one of them.

[@erniepike3902]

I have been using Freecad for years, it is greatly improved over where it was when I started. I use AutoCAD and Catia at work, cause I'm old. It may be my own OCD but the thought of using a cloud-based tool frightens me, for the reason you mentioned as well as the design ownership. The change history is a problem that has presisted from the beginning fillites and chamfers are the biggest ones but any reference geometry can be lost. I think it is that points, vertices and surfaces renumber when one goes away, instead of skipping that number, IDK why they do it that way. One thing to help is to put new sketches on a datam plan instead of a part's surface as often as possible. but then the datum doesn't move when the size changes. IDK if the problem has improved or I have learned to work around it but it doesn't bother me as much now.

[@lv_woodturner3899]

I use FreeCAD. It does have a big learning curve, but for my needs, it is worth the effort. I appreciate this is not going to be easy to use for everyone. As you have mentioned before, being able to design our own parts makes 3D printers so much more useful. I have found a lot of useful STL's on Printables, etc., but often I need to design something for my project or to fix a broken part.

[@QTMagic]

I experienced the same problems with freecad too - I could draw parts, but they would always crash when I edited them. Sometimes I would have to redraw the entire part just to make one simple change. Having said that, i'm glad that I will always have my sketches. There will always be a free version of freecad so I will never be locked into an expensive monthly contract.

[@owl7011]

To all new users. My recommendation is to actually stick to the older Sketcher workbench and Part workbench. When you need to move things around, use the Draft workbench, unhide sketches to use as anchors. This is imho the most organic way for us hobbyist to see our designs in 3D form. The newer, usually recommended Part Design workbench is most efficient when you already have a workflow with thought out ideas or established designs in 2D form that you now need to turn into 3D which is a more professional approach when it comes to product design.

[@modernsolutions6631]

You were not unfair to freecad. You reviewed a certain software version and were accurate in your conclusion

[@foldionepapyrus3441]

Agreed, you can and should only review the version in use not the promises, and FreeCAD does have some rough edges. That said there is still an element of unfairness when you come from being a Fusion (etc) user and expecting a very different program to follow the same workflows and have the same behaviour you have grown to expect. So to some extent FreeCAD was being treated unfairly as different isn't inherently worse, and it has been a very good capable tool as long as you have trained yourself to think in the way it works - once you learn how to work with it is really good despite the flaws and rough edges (though most are well underway for being fixed it seems). Much like OpenSCAD, hugely powerful but a pretty steep learning curve and you have to train yourself to think the right way to make good use of it.

[@hanswurst9866]

And that version was not even the best version, since he continues to not even mention the Linkstage3 = realthunder branch of Freecad that resolves the topographical naming problem for the most part.

[@MCTrapsandTutorials]

​@@hanswurst9866ok and hopefully that will be included in the main version someday. But if you tell the average person to use freecad now, they are not going to use a fork of the main version.

[@bzuidgeest]

Maybe not unfair to freecad, but also not fair in calling other packages free while they lock you into vendor clouds where you don't even own your own work. Where everything can disappear the next day or be twice as expensive. His opinion is his opinion, but he himself acknowledged the lack of control of your own work and I wouldn't like to make a business where I didn't have any control of my own work.

[@nachot6592]

No, people. He reviewed the only version that should be reviewed: the stable official release. Everything else just could be previewed.

[@whackstro5184]

I am a big fan of open-source, and FreeCAD is a great project. It's highly capable for my needs, getting weekly updates, and has both a detailed manual and many tutorials available online. Seeing how much it has developed from early builds to the 1.0 release, it's amazing the software is freely available to all. It's a gem that should be cherished.

[@chris993361]

They are currently working on a version of free cad that gets rid of the naming problems if you add or remove faces or, in the case of your fillets, the edges change names and so the fillet doesn't know what to attach to. This should go a long way towards things not breaking if you make a change. I don't know when it's available to everyone though.

[@alexandredevert4935]

I've been using Freecad for 5 years. You are right on the parametric model brittleness issue. I learned ways to mitigate it, ie. chamfers last, avoid referencing external geometry as much as possible, etc.

[@hanswurst9866]

I learned FreeCAD and really love it. Especially the Realthunder = linkstage3 branch that fixed the topographical naming problem and is being incorporated into the main version. I dislike the way all other CAD programs function now.

[@Flockman3065]

Freecad 1.0 just dropped as a release candidate, it seems to fix a lot of the issues mentioned in this video, including the surface reflection issues and model breakage, might be worth a (final) revisit :)

[@SeanLumly]

Yes! The past-editing is a HUGE problem that makes editing a pain. It seems to me that chamfers and edges are being stored as indexes of primitives rather than being ATTACHED to specific lines, points, edges, etc. So as the underlying geometry changes, the indexes point to different things. This is actually a large problem with internal representation, and not necessarily easily solvable. But I certainly hope that it IS solved, because the package is competent, and the "workbench" plugin system is extremely powerful.

[@pizzablender]

The problem is they are attached to a certain face in the object. And when you change stuff, a new face can appear, changing the numbering, and moving your feature to another face. Where it maybe doesn't fit and doesn't get drawn. The TNP solution somehow solves this by creating more stable "names" for faces, to be used as reference. Note that there will always be some kind of TNP problems.

[@SeanLumly]

@pizzablender Sorry I missed your comment (I didn't get a notification) Yes, sometimes this is the case, but it seems that often the modification of a constraint in a sketch, or a lines dimensions, and all attached chambers, etc shift. If this is such a problem, then perhaps it would be better to make these attachments explicit (eg. user ID of primitive, and a link to thar id)..

[@spock81]

I love that you're giving FreeCAD/Ondsel some attention here. I've personally tried FreeCAD a few times over the years but never stuck with it. I think it's great that you're spotlighting it and giving these critiques though. These are all important issues that will need to be addressed before it really becomes competitive with other more polished options, and I'm hopeful that with continued development and thoughtful input it will get there soon.

[@AsiAzzy]

Your endeavors with frecad are on the right path to true parametric design. I feel freecad is loosely similar to Catia. When the model gets more complex in the prototype phase then it's really important to have a robust parametric model and understanding. This means the designer has to learn ways to make features updatable in the most stable way (involving more bodies, more boolean operations, having indepedent refferences based on equations, setting boundries and wraps and sepparation planes from other parts of assembly.. etc). But this also means that when something is a bit ambiguous to NOT update on quick shortcut the program does not even mention. The abiogus question must be properly shown to the user. I've been bitten off with automatic corrections done by Inventor (that is fairly more robust and rigid than Fusion, the little toy brother of inventor). Where an ambiguos feature was done and worked, but without my knowledge, assumed stuff. And later stuff was not adding up. Catia is the hidden CAD program that rules the world. Almost everything tehnical had some design done in catia. Automotive and aviation are at over 90% catia (in some areas even 99%). rest of industies are mixed with some Creo and NX and at some distant places maybe some solidwork or some inventor There is a reason for this: CATIA will simply NOT let you do anything ambigous. It will constantly error over error if you are a bad modeler. With some experience beforehand you learn what to do, what not to do, why that feature was ambiguous at some point, and teaches you about 3d logical thinking and geometry. And after that the resulted model (done by a skillful person) can be easily modified in every regard (because of the very strict ruling in early stages, just like freecad vs onshape as you describe) Also you found out that chaining many operations in a single body is not productive as any high level change may impact lots of things. Usually each feature is modeleld as a standalone body and at the end the final part is collection of booleans add/remove/trim/intersect operations betweeen the multiple bodies.

[@NewStreamLine]

I'm new to FreeCAD. As for parametric modeling, I missed the mention of the Spreadsheet option in this video. In the future, if I'm even slightly considering possible changes to the design of a 3D model, I would definitely start by creating a spreadsheet to store the parameters.

[@capitalinventor4823]

You don't need to start your model with a spreadsheet. It may be added at any time in the process. It may be optimal to create a model with the idea that it will be parametric, and make use of a spreadsheet in FreeCAD, from the start but it's not required. You are able to create the spreadsheet, add the parameters you desire, and replace set values in the model with references to the spreadsheet. It probably would be best to start with parametric values equal to those currently in the model. I've found that changing one thing at a time makes it easier to determine what the cause of a problem is. For example, if in the model the length of a line is 15 mm but it is then set to the corresponding spreadsheet cell that has a value of 20 mm, was it the change to point to the spreadsheet or the change in length that caused the issue. Perhaps a length of 20 mm causes the issue, which you may test by setting the length to a constant value of 20 mm instead of 15 mm. Or perhaps the wrong cell was pointed to and that was the issue. If the spreadsheet has an initial value the same as the current model value then when you set up the model to use the spreadsheet correctly there should be no changes to model. Then you will be free to test how the model reacts to changing values. Using aliases for cells will help you reduce errors because when you are typing in the formula for the cell you won't have to remember if it was something like Spreadsheet.B9 or Spreadsheet.B10 for the height of the object. There will be an entry Spreadsheet.object_height, or whatever alias you use instead of object_height.

[@NewStreamLine]

@@capitalinventor4823 You can name parameters in the spreadsheet do thst you don't have to remember the cell addresses. Example Spreadsheet.height.

[@randomblock1_]

Btw in Ondsel you can toggle the grid with a button in the second set of the bottom row of the toolbar, the one that looks like a grid.

[@niall21]

One thing I haven't seen mentioned is that, at last in my experience, the freeCAD community is fantastic. I asked a question on the forum about a design issue on a part and I got a fast response with some really good feedback.

[@treeoflifeenterprises]

using datum planes rather than surfaces to draw sketches is a way to reduce the problem, but you're right that changing things (if you haven't done that) is often problemattic at the moment. saving often as subversions is useful. that said, the cross platform opensource part of it I think is worth promoting as the greater the user base, the more developers are attracted to the project, and the faster it is improved. The fact you have no restrictions on use is also something that the "free" versions of some other products don't offer.

[@yanathecontrarian4863]

Thanks for actually reviewing it. As a newcomer, I didn't find your FreeCAD opinion in your previous video super informative, since it basically just sounded like "it's too different from the workflow I'm used to." Well that doesn't really affect me either way when I'm not used to any workflow! And as a newcomer who found it easiest to go straight to OpenSCAD (i.e. designing by writing scripts) instead of trying to learn CAD interfaces and paradigms, I do find actual information about how this all works much more helpful than just whether or not you personally found it usable.

[@johnmccardle]

I use FreeCAD to design my own 3D printable robot parts, and everything Angus says is true. I just work around it with some tricks: * A lot of parts I design have a "master sketch", which is totally invalid geometry of multiple "normal" lines, connected and crossing each other. Sometimes I'll even represent wheels, bolts, or other footprints here. This sketch can't be used to create a feature, it's just the single source of references for the feature sketches. * individual features get a separate sketch which is only one closed line as "external geometry" from the master sketch. So moving features on the master sketch will update this sketch, and adding new features won't affect it. You just can't delete from the master sketch or turn normal edges into construction edges. * pad and pocket all of these features, including polar/mirror/linear transforms or multitransforms. FreeCAD generally does not have any difficulty deleting any pad/pocket feature out of the middle of history when it's all based on sketches and supported by standard planes or datums. Supporting a sketch on the face of another pad or pocket is asking for trouble, though. * Chamfer and filet last. This is the most fragile part of FreeCAD and I generally just delete all chamfers and re-do them if I'm modifying history to add or remove features. I'm looking forward to the topology naming problem being solved, but for the simple use cases I put FreeCAD through, I am not going to mess around with other folks' branches - I'll just wait for it to get into the main repository, which seems like it will be soon enough.

[@saulysw]

I watched the video where Makers Muse did all those free CAD reviews and, despite his recommendations, chose FreeCAD as the one I would learn as a newcomer to CAD. I agree with what he says here. It is not very forgiving if you make changes to early sketches, as everything builds on the faces of the early ones in sequence. I struggled with that a few times and the more complex a part, the worse it gets. You do develop work-arounds and techniques to minimise the issues, but sometimes you just have to redo things because they have gotten all messed up on what face they are connected to. It might put fillets on edges you didn't tell it to. It makes what is already a steep learning curve even steeper. I found myself saving often, and giving each save a version number in case I had to rollback. I feel like I have a fair handle on it now, and know what is likely to break, but it took a bit to get to this point. I do actually like the software, despite this. There is apparently a dev build about that fixes all this face mapping issue when editing sketches, it is very new and I think not even out yet - and that sounds fantastic and will be a great improvement.

[@falxonPSN]

I think you are referring to the linkstage3 version by realthunder that was merged in.

[@Pongant]

Freecad is extremely powerful. It definitely helped me becoming much, much better at printing and designing

[@sinemi3]

I learnt FreeCad with mango jelly KZbin videos. I was completely new to CAD and 3d design, someone who just downloaded from Thingiverse. I started with tinkercad and had to try FreeCAD. I couldn't have done it without MangoJelly's videos. I do basic stuff, but it works for me.

[@davidosterberg]

Awesome update. Despite it being a bit negative. This time I think you accurately represented FreeCAD, some of its features and I agree that you identified some of its main flaws. The good news is that progress is very fast at the moment. The model stability issues you encountered have actually been adressed in the weekly builds even newer than what you used. And I think the sketcher line color issue is also being worked on as well.

[@dtaggartofRTD]

Thanks for giving it another look. It's not perfect, but it has its own advantages. Thankfully that Topological Naming Problem should be fixed soonish. Cloud solutions make me nervous for that exact issue. They have your data, not you. If they go away, you're the one that's screwed. With something like FreeCAD, you're less likely to get rug pulled.

[@gerritvisser]

make a local copy, easy peasy. Save as Step just in case if you are paranoid. With FreeCAD there is already a history of breaking design changes, so you still lose your models.

[@dtaggartofRTD]

@@gerritvisser That's a lot easier to work around than cloud BS. It's not like FreeCAD auto updates.

[@gerritvisser]

@@dtaggartofRTD would love to know how you can get around the update=breaking changes. If module x gets deprecated or updated and your models rely on it then you are either stuck in the past, or redo the models.

[@Mrstrikerace]

I've been using FreeCad for a long time and it is great. For free software without strings I'm very pleased. I especially like the feature to be able to take a picture of an item and scale it into the setup. I use Tinkercad daily but Freecad is my go-to for more complex parts. :-)

[@gustavlicht9620]

Even if FreeCAD has downsides, it still beats anything where the makes can change the license/usage rights at a whim overnight.

[@travisgatlin536]

FreeCAD stable is one of the most obtuse and confusing pieces of software I’ve ever used, and I’m someone who learned blender in 2.4x I want it to be good so bad, especially as Autodesk continues to erode Fusion 360’s hobbyist version.

[@RaoulEvilD]

I feel you! Completely!

[@alexcrouse]

This is how i feel. It's just unusable unless you are the particular weird expert that programmed it. The rest of us have things to do, and will end up just using Fusion with it's limitations or pirating SolidWorks, because even free is too high a price for FreeCAD's insufferable mess of a billion useless features in an unorganized pile in the corner. FreeCAD's UI is unexplainably bad.

[@Berg085]

THIS. I decided to start learning on FreeCAD, but due to me using modeling software pretty infrequently, I would basically have to re-learn EVERYTHING about freecad any time i wanted to use it. After trying Fusion and OnShape, I just can't go back. Maybe some day, but not today.

[@martinsvensson6884]

@@alexcrouse Makes more sense to pirate Autodesk Inventor then if youre used to Fusion 360..

[@JG-nm9zk]

I actually liked blender's 2.4 interface. I haven't known where anything is in blender for years now.

[@some_random_wallaby]

Well, that's still much better than I thought it was. Thanks for giving it another go.

[@funkysod]

Been using freecad since 0.12. It has come a very along way. No license, no giving up all your human rights. Free and open source. Now also very usable. Nice of you Angus to take another look at it. Next version will be a major update so please revisit it again at a later date.

[@BeefIngot]

This is always the story with Freecad. Fun fact, people said the tnp issue would be fixed years ago. They said it was next update. It still isnt there. Worse yet its just one of many issues with the software. Its getting better yes, but at a molasses pace. The end result is that whatver the skill level, Freecad makes you notably less efficient.

[@funkysod]

@@BeefIngotYes you have a point. But I've actually experienced a vast amount of improvement. And the dev version for 1.0 is looking really good. The pace is slow but that's to be expected with next to no funding and a joint effort. You are of course free to use whatever software you like. I happen to like open source, native linux, free of charge. Even at glaciar developing pace. Been using for real life applications like 3d models for printing, or welding and wood working projects. Works very well for me. I stand by my statement, it will improve even further with the next release.

[@pizzablender]

@@BeefIngot _All_ CAD software has TNP issues. In any case, FreeCAD development had other priorities. But the project picked up a lot of speed recently and there are a lot of improvements (even on the TNP issue) coming together now in mainstream.

[@BeefIngot]

@@pizzablender This just isn't true in any appreciable manner regarding tnp and as I mentioned thats one of many issues. It doesnt change my conclusion at all.

[@ergosum5260]

Many thanks from a newcomer, I haven't used Autocad or Ashlar Velum in decades. I've totally forgotten Medusa on the Sun workstations.

[@andrewwakefield4519]

Thank you for giving this another try.

[@hanswurst9866]

it was still surprisingly low-effort and most complaints are just a result of him simply now knowing (or bothering to find out) how to use Freecad. He is still not even using the linkstage3 version lol

[@wooviee]

@@hanswurst9866 "He's not even using a build from a dev branch to compare it to production-ready software" Please read this out loud to try and understand how insane of an ask that is for the average user.

[@andrewwakefield4519]

@@hanswurst9866 While I am an avid fan of FreeCAD and use it regularly, I felt that the review was generally fair. He is prioritizing some things differently than I do, and he acknowledges at least some of that (e.g., I think I remember in this review or the previous one an acknowledgment that not everyone will be comfortable with a model that stores data online or makes it public). Perhaps the only thing lacking that I would have wished to be acknowledged is the needs of Linux users, for whom the choices available are quite different. But, to my great sorrow, we Linux users are in the oft-forgotten minority. :(

[@paulradford4100]

The biggest problem is indeed topo naming, but it's not right to use that as a deal breaker. Beyond that 1 issue (that is being worked on), Freecad, with all it's workbenches is a truly powerful software - capable of so many processes. Be honest now, how many softwares out there (even paid) has the amount of features offered by this free software. Yes, there's a very steep learning curve, but it more than worth it to stick with freecad. And it has a huge and very helpful userbase. Pure gold, I would say..

[@codemakeshare]

I'm using KiCAD personally and professionally, and it's a little bit further ahead. KiCAD was the same a decade ago, and now it's really good. Not as feature-rich as e.g. Altium, but some things actually work better (e.g. I prefer KiCAD's push-pull routing). FreeCAD still isn't quite there yet, so far, and for many years progress was slow. I've tried to use it for a few simple things, but usability and learning curve aside, the way designs break and fall apart when editing is the biggest stumbling block. (It's the topological naming problem - it's just one of the things that are really hard problems, and it cannot be understated that writing CAD tools is just really, really hard compared to many other SW, which is why it's so expensive). But lately it looks really promising that it'll reach the point where it can be a full alternative to commercial tools for moderately complex designs. It might never be as powerful or streamlined as Solidworks or Fusion, but imho it doesn't have to - there are many users and use cases that only need the basics.

[@Craftlngo]

Comparing KiCad with FreeCad is like comparing apples to oranges. KiCad is a development system for PCBs. You can design your own circuits, design the boards and create list of materials. FreeCad is a design program for parametric constructions.

[@BeefIngot]

To compare freecad to kicad is to insult kicad.

[@martinmckee5333]

​@@CraftlngoI don't think the comparison is unreasonable at all. It's not a question of functionality, but development methodology. They are both open source projects that had periods of very slow development and been borderline unusable. KiCAD was helped greatly by CERN jumping onboard to help with development. In a smaller way, Ondsel seems to be having a similar effect on FreeCAD. With continued support, there's no reason to believe that FreeCAD will not continue to improve and, eventually, like KiCAD, approach parity with commercial options. Certainly FreeCAD has much farther to go than KiCAD, but that's more a question of magnitude than kind.

[@BrunodeSouzaLino]

KiCAD is more mature because CERN uses it.

[@BeefIngot]

@@martinmckee5333 I dont know about this. TNP has been solved and solvable for multiple years yet was not merged in. It seems like there is a problem thats higher level than resources.

[@fortissimoX]

Version 1.0 is out, and it seems that things are going to speed up regarding future development.

[@Tcuel]

I made a model scale steel bridge in freecad. Scale 1/87. Being fully realistic and parametric. Besides own learning points, i really think its an awesome program. The bonus really being open source. Support will last. Unlike for example fusion who can just remove options for free users.

Thanks for sharing this update, I was on the same side regarding Freecad UX and this is much better.

[@gth042]

"Pad" as a verb and 4:44 is all you needed to show. Some influential devs are funny in the head. Like QGIS, someone will need to retire or croak for FreeCAD to excel. Then, it'll be the gold standard that sucker-punches expensive CAD out of the shop.

[@LincolnWorld]

I tried both the standard FreeCad and the Ondsel one. I have the exact same issues you brought up. I am sure that for some folks, those issues may not bug them. But it did frustrate me. If they could fix those things, I would probably switch to it. It's so close to being good enough for my needs, but it's not there yet. Please keep us updated, as I would prefer to use FreeCad.

[@gerritvisser]

Pershaps instead of spending time on 5+ dark modes they spent time on actual functionality there would be more progress. Not unusual for a FOSS, ppl spend their energy on what they want to spend it on, not necessarily what is most needed by the product. Good intentions of course.

[@upStomp]

I really like Ondsel so far. I was a SolidWorks designer in a former life, like 20+ years ago. I was able to pick up the basics of Ondsel pretty quickly. I'm excited to take up yet another hobby, spend hundreds or thousands, then drop it in favor of another hobby in a year or so.

[@baconstorm2259]

I love when youtubers post right as im pooping on company time

[@joeboxter3635]

A triple blessing: a job, being regular, and company time to watch KZbin. Very nice. Lol.

[@TS_Mind_Swept]

I'm not on company time, butt I'm still on the John 💩

[@braydonchatterton4304]

I get a nickel, they get a dime, that's why I poop on company time.

[@MisterMakerNL]

It's the best poop.

[@PiefacePete46]

Who gives a sh!t. 😜

[@nrdesign1991]

What I need foremost from a CAD package is it to be dependable and not have weird quirks when it matters the most. A sharp learning curve is acceptable but not if the end result is a program with a mind of its own.

[@SneakyJoeRu]

Nice contour light. Directly below and behind?

[@phillxor]

I was trying to figure out what was going on there.

[@MakersMuse]

Yep just behind, for fun!

[@PiefacePete46]

When you are starting out, the significance of being able to change some part of a design without starting from scratch is not always recognised. The more time goes by the more you love the programmers for creating this feature. 😍 🥰 For instance: your stepper motor supplier now only stocks the one you have been using in a long output shaft version. 😟 The longer shaft fouls the casing! 😱 🤬 You can cut the end off all the shafts... 😡 OR... Go back into your CAD system, make some simple (?) changes... call it "Revision 2", and Carry on! 👍 😃

[@6yjjk]

If it's not released as stable, it doesn't count. No unfairness here.

[@logianer]

This! Who even reviews pre-releases?

[@snerttt]

​@@logianer He'd already reviewed the stable release and it was worse.

[@jakobhansen1396]

In the case of FreeCAD the stable version is very stable, but in reality the realthunder branch is the de facto standard if you actually use it

[@Voyajer.]

pre 1.0 software gets reviewed based on whatever is in the latest build.

[@htpkey]

@@Voyajer. That's an arbitrary rule. The people who visit the FreeCAD website will likely DL the stable release. The average user doesn't use github (for daily builds) or forks (like Realthunder).

[@tomastelensky-vlog8723]

16:40 the problem with cloud-only sw is not with the connectivity! It is that you are dependent on 3rd party, which can any time cancel/raise prices/bullshitize/...

[@Obsidianxenon]

I use freecad because I originally got it on a Linux machine. Now I use it because I'm used to it, but it isnt as bad as a lot of people say it is.

[@darkphoenix2004]

You got to learn it as most other programs, but as always if you are use to work with a software, you can work with it rly well.

[@BeefIngot]

​​@@darkphoenix2004No That excuse is just annoying toxic positivity. Even ignoring tnp the sketch system is soo much more tideous than other systems, the constraints work poorly, joints arent yet a thing, errors are not clear and very prevalent, timeline management is a slog and the list goes on and on. Once you learn it, it will still be monumentally frustratingly slow vs other modern cad packegs thaf youll even have the benefit of learning faster.

[@Ottmar555]

FreeCAD 1.0 just came out!

[@ht4247]

i encounter similar issue in solidworks. if you delete a line and re-draw it again, all references related that line is deleted. you need to re-define the references. although the paid software not perfect how you can expect that to free and open source software perfect. i hope as soon as it will be like Blender.

[@MichaelJHathaway]

Thanks for the video. As far as using parametric design and having errors on FreeCad, you can't refer it to the only program having issues. I would much rather have a program that created errors like that, where I could go back and fix it. Unlike Fusion that will just lock up and CRASH on you. That and having the program directly loaded to your computer and not work in a web browser is a gigantic plus.

[@ocularcavity8412]

FreeCAD ALWAYS breaks my model when go back and change a design while prototyping and and usually the break has NOTHING to do with what I CHANGED!!! luckily most of my designs are simple so I can just delete the broken part and redesign them, but YOU SHOULDN'T HAVE TO DO THAT just to add 0.5 mm to an outside edge of a part! Also using FreeCAD feels like I am sharing an Apartment with Melvin Udall, if you DON'T do things in a VERY specific order (when adding or removing things from a design) with NO real reasons behind it, IT LOSES IT'S MIND and goes absolutely to pieces once again leaving you to either undo or delete massive parts of your project and have top recreate them from scratch because you had the AUDACITY of creating in an manner that FreeCAD DOESN'T APPROVE OF

[@hellelujahh]

I like your hair-tearing-out vibe here, it's very appropriate with FreeCAD 😬

[@darkphoenix2004]

it is becouse the surface ID where you put your following scetch on changed. You got to remap, but sadly, reconstruction mostly have to be done manualy. Can be troublesome, biggest weakness...

[@ocularcavity8412]

@@darkphoenix2004 IF it was for this Problem would LOVE using it and ALWAYS be looking forward to making my next design. I have SLOWLY been finding was to TRICK FreeCAD 0.21.2 into letting me change things if I create Models and make changes in a very Very VERY specific order but it really slows down everything when you spend more time thinking of how to get Freecad to LET you create your design than actually getting down to designing it and and printing to see if it fits in your application

[@newolde1]

​@@darkphoenix2004yup this. You learn to fix these pretty quickly when you get used to it. Imo it's just a part of the learning curve, at this stage of development at least. You can generally keep this from being too much of an issue if you are considerate of your build from the start.

[@hanswurst9866]

many of these issues can be resolved by 1. using linkstage3 which fixed the topographical naming problem to a large extend and is not yet fully incorporated into the main versions of FreeCAD 2. by re-attaching broken operations to the now different references 3. by re-selecting the elements of actions, particularly when it comes to fillets and chamfers. And once you understood that workflow necessity once, you do it automatically and it becomes a minor concern.

[@VictorEvangael]

FreeCAD plans to be at MRRF this year, and was looking for suggestions for things to do at their booth. I've recommended a beginner tutorial to them. Hope they go with it. Either way, I have to ask them about this video. :D

[@SlinkySlonkyWaffle]

so basically, one of the MAIN points people use parametric CAD simply is broken inside freeCAD... At this rate Blender will make a CAD branch and get better than FreeCAD before anyone is able to use it professionally... I really want to like FreeCAD but it just doesnt do anything well. Im sticking with NX

[@alphadog6970]

Agreed. I am honestly surprised that blender does not have cad fork.

[@Daniel_VolumeDown]

@@alphadog6970 blender have unofficial cad addon called "CAD Sketcher". Although it is not aimed to replace CAD programs and have limited features

[@-______-______-]

What is NX?

[@SlinkySlonkyWaffle]

@@-______-______- Siemens' CAD package, allot of other CAD software uses their parametric core called Parasolid. (Shapr3D uses Parasolid as its backend, for example)

[@nic.h]

@@-______-______- Siemens NX I assume

[@Gosuminer]

Having committed to using FreeCAD for all of my projects I can 100% confirm everything Angus says. FreeCAD is not garbage and it is free as in freedom which I highly value but it will not be a smooth ride once your models become more complex.

[@1pcfred]

Yet freecad does not have proper support for freedom units. So freecad is not in fact free. Go ahead and try to export anything in inches and see just what happens. You go to gulag!

[@macdroid53]

The Ondsel theme is available in the dev version in Addon manager (it was actually developed there). The dev version is in feature freeze, so release of the next stable version 1.0 is weeks away. IOW, should have waited for a bit to get the real feel of what comes next.

[@MakersMuse]

ill try it when its out

[@PiroFyre]

I think even the stable old version of FreeCAD is worth learning. Did a lot of designs in FreeCAD stable. Definitely hated that my designs just "break" when I try to do something that FreeCAD doesn't like. I now have Solidworks and it doesn't completely break my designs when I do something Solidworks doesn't like. But for $48/yr for Solidworks, it's hard not to give Solidworks a try.

[@octodionis]

Hi, Angus! Have you ever used a 6dof input device like the SpaceMouse for CAD? I know it integrates well with Fusion but am still skeptical about the actual increase in efficiency they claim

[@pizzablender]

I do not think it does, TBH. You still work on a flat screen, where most precise work is done. And navigating by mouse and buttons is more precise. I have a "space mouse" but perhaps it has a learning curve. I never use it.

[@octodionis]

It's also odd to me because if you have one hand on the mouse and one hand on the space mouse, you can't use hotkeys as effectively

[@martinmckee5333]

​@@octodionisThat's the reason that the high-end space mice have context sensitive macro keys. You still have access to most of the hot keys you normally would. Given the additional learning curve and extreme cost of the upper-escelon units though, it's questionable how valuable an addition a space mouse is for someone who doesn't use CAD several hours a day.

[@runklestiltskin_2407]

You are answering the question I asked myself yesterday

[@aysnov]

10:55 That's not a bug, it's just a less obvious case of the TNP. You used an edge of the part as your pattern's axis, then changed the geometry in a way that "moved" that edge somewhere else (more precisely it reassigned its name to another edge). What you want to do instead is to create a datum line, place it where you want and use that to create the pattern - just like you use datum planes instead of sketching on part faces. Essentially you want to avoid as much as possible having features that reference other features of the part.

[@CleverLittleMaker]

Good review and fair criticisms. I hope that the FreeCAD team is able to address the bugs (beyond the minor UI stuff, which I think is pretty simple for the user to address). I really want to like FreeCAD, and when 1.0 is officially released, I may have to revisit it.

[@petrikarkela6800]

Like Linux, people were telling it is not as easy as windows, finally FreeCad will show the way and will be widely used. The main point is it is FREE of any kind of licensing of your desing right to some party that you will be tied to.

[@iliketoast-q9b]

No on both counts. Linux is not as easy as Windows still and FreeCAD is still too buggy, unstable and hard to use that it won't be widely used in the near future. Blender is much further ahead in the 3D-Design space because it can actually compete with commercially available software.

[@sixwheelsdown7453]

I use FreeCad a lot for my CNC and 3D printing projects. It was a bit hard to get started, but so much worth the effort. I have found, that it is such a powerful tool and I can make anything I can imagine. Now I could not live without this software.

[@Sundheden]

I love how the comments on the previous video was opposing the fact you used the stable build to judge it. Now there are many coomments pointing at this being a version still under development, and if you leave this software out entiretly from a video, the comments are going to point that out instead. Can't win, sorry Angus, you're always doing it wrong.

[@MakersMuse]

Lol yep.

[@jesseblack0713]

I've been working with freecad since it's beginning. I've seen a lot of changes over the years. A lot of the problem is everybody thinks that they can just get down to work and get everything set and do what they wanted to do. You have to realize that you have quite a few different developers all once coming up with different ideas not everyone is going to have the same idea on how something should work. That's why it's with open source it's not going to be the same for everyone what everybody wants it to be. Once you've gotten that understanding on how things work it makes it a lot easier to do things. I grew up doing drafting on board there was no computers there's nothing but paper and your different types of leads for your pencils you made a mistake it took a lot to fix it a lot of times you would have to take him to start all over. So is for me I know what changes I need to make because I do it as a sketch on paper to give myself an idea when I wanted to do I don't get right on to the computer and start plugging away and going okay this is exactly what I want I was sketch things out how I wanted to be and I look it over and think of it as a machinist if you're taking a chunk of Steel and machining that piece of Steel to the part that you want. The more you work with it the better you get what the old saying practice makes perfect. But comparing something that you get you're getting for free to something that cost hundreds of dollars be complaining unless you that's all you want to do is spend your money on something that you only going to use once or twice unless it's your full-time job doing that then that's more power to you but me I'm happy knowing that that those strongs that I have are on my computer they're free from anybody else taking a messing with them I don't like the fusion 360 for that reason I like it to be saved on my computer and nowhere else cuz some of the things that I design I don't want other people to have. Is my way the best way no it's it's for me everybody has their own opinion and would your opinion works best for you my opinion works best for me. I'm happy with free CAD and I won't use anything other than that.

[@Norman_Fleming]

As a consumer you can only evaluate based on current products, not what is upcoming.

[@newolde1]

Oh boohoo. He fully disclosed the fact that he's using the weekly build and said that it isn't normal for regular folks to use them. If you actually follow him, he reviews pre-releases of printers too bud. When comparing open source software to paid versions out is pretty normal that they have more bugs. That said FreeCAD has some powerful features that other paid CAD software don't. A similar example of this is WordPress. It has a ton of features that blow away other web platforms, and yet it is not without its quirks. And yet over 40% of the web is built on it, so you can't deny the beauty of open source. I personally appreciate the fact that he's doing his best to be open minded with it. Sorry you can't see the forest for the trees.

[@vinny142]

It's a very simple and repetative cycle: 1. A group of enthausiasts start a Free Opensource Software project. 2. Software gets traction. 3. Lots of improvements are made to the software. 4. The software becomes too expensive to maintain for free 5. Product becomes paid. 6. A group of users who have committed to that software find themselves having to pay to stay in business. 7. A new group of enthausiasts forks an older version and starts developing a new branch. 8. The software gets traction because the original software is now prohibitively expensive. 9. GOTO 2.

[@MAYERMAKES]

I use freecad/ondsel for serious work, it is perfectly viable. 90% of complaints came from being used to other cads sloppy design freedom. Freecad forces you to do do propper drawn constraint and referenced drawings, a good practice but hard to learn for beginners or coming from a less strict software.

[@ifell3]

SketchUp user here, the amount of plugins 😅

[@apoco_lips9957]

I woudve never learned a real cad program if it werent for freecad. Everything else is too expensive for just getting started and onshape forcing all free users designs to be public was unacceptable in my situation. I mostly taught myself in 4 days to make a complicated reservoir and on the 5th day remade from scratch with features that were adjustable by altering some of the first sketches in the build without breaking everything. Considering this is the worst freecad will ever be, I think I learned at a good time and things will only get better, good investment of my time. Like you said, it really is all about learning the workflow and it is viable

[@TheCreat]

@MAYERMAKES But that's exactly the problem. There was a reason 15-20 years ago this was needed in programs, we've moved on from this. It isn't even "better". The real problem is that essentially as a consequence from this, FreeCAD is different from every other (semi-modern) CAD program. I can swap between fusion, solid edge, or one of the online tools and frankly I don't mind much either way. Some things are done slightly differently, but generally I can just "do my stuff". I can not even remotely do that with FreeCAD. It's also the unclear error messages that don't tell you what the problem is, or not even telling you there's a problem (like when he's editing an older existing feature and a newer one breaks). When using the other software, I'm not scared of touching existing features or values, but I am when using FreeCAD. In the case he showcased, if the change was much smaller it wouldn't be clear by just looking at the model that it didn't apply properly, I would just assume it worked fine (cause no errors) go to print and then wonder why it's the same size as the last print without the 0.8mm I added.

[@Craftlngo]

SolidWorks user for more than 17 years on a daily base here. You can't design in SolidWorks in a "sloppy" way. The hassles FreeCad is giving you by not working relatable in the common sense all major CAD programs work, that use drag and drop, constraints, equations and so on. I've tried FreeCad (v 0.20) and just wanted to create a simple drawing to find out if an available piece of particle board was big enough for the pieces I needed. So I started a sketch and I almost lost my mind. Simple tasks like connecting two lines to a corner (which is normally done by drag and drop) doesn't work in FreeCad. I tried to work with this software for several days before I've given up on it.

[@TiagoDdA]

some people just want to design the pieces they need without needing to worry about a thousand little details. I use CAD for 3d modelling and I use a lot of not so great practices to achieve the looks of the model, it would be IMPOSSIBLE to do it in freecad

[@TinaDanielsson]

Just for the funs I'm going to follow along and model a simple knob that has been on my todo list for a while. My chair is to heavy to throw but I've dug out an old keyboard I can throw at the wall in preparation. (Because I don't want to break my regular keyboard **doh**) Let's go! 😁 First issue: Tiny font in some parts of the app. Fix: Shortcut properties > Compatibility tab > Change high DPI settings > Check "Use this setting..." and "Override high ...", select by "System". Second issue: Error message "Wire is not closed." I saw no indication as to where the issue was. I had to zoom in and follow along all the lines in my sketch to find where it wasn't connected. I was unable to get the end points of my arc to connect to my two circles though. There was always a gap. I gave up and decided to model my part another way. Note: I think Angus encountered this when he tried the release version. Third issue: Error message "Wire is not closed." Once again I saw no indication as to where the issue was. Trial and error made me figure out that it wasn't possible to have an arc connected to a line that was longer than the distance between the arc points connected to the line. I had the line extended from the arc because I was going to add another arc to it after I tried to get the pad function to work after "solving" the second issue. Note: Angus encountered this too. FIRST MILESTONE REACHED: First pad created after almost 1 hour. Fourth issue: Error message "BRep_API: command not done" Got this error when trying to change the radius in the Fillet parameters dialog. Workaround: Create the fillet with preset value. Change it in the model properties window. I went back and made changes to my first sketch. All features updated properly. I had mirrored my part and then decided to go back and add some fillets to the body. I had no issues with that either. Workflow: 1. Suppress all features after the place I wanted to add the fillet features at. (Select model > Base > Suppressed: true) 2. Add fillets. 3. Move fillet features to the place I wanted it to be in the order of features. (Right click model > Move object after another object) 4. Unsuppress one feature at a time in order. (Select model > Base > Suppressed: false) SECOND MILESTONE REACHED: Added cutouts, fillets and mirrors. Part done. Took about 30 minutes. CONCLUSION The UI is definitely better than the release version. It's much less confusing. Even with a very simple model you still run into issues. So for me FreeCAD still isn't a good alternative. But fingers crossed it'll get there!

[@Falney]

If you have to download the bleeding edge version and not the normal version to get anywhere near a good experience, you weren't being hard on it.

[@blacklion79]

When I tried FreeCAD about a year ago, I found that some workbenches are in the middle of revamping: old plugin is discontinued and not recommended and the new one is not ready yet. I had problems with assembly and with some sketches which reference 3D geometry. As a result, the model which was constructed in F360 and Inventor easily, becomes a struggle in FreeCAD ...

[@noanyobiseniss7462]

REALTHUNDER needs to change the name of his fork and rename it to something like EveryoneCad and totally break from this co-oped mess.

[@johnpickens448]

My table at OpenSauce two weekends ago was all about Open Source hardware and CAD software. I had signs up for both OpenScad and FreeCad. My FreeCad comment was that it is the best free, open source, GUI based CAD software out there...and it kinda sucks. My hope is that as more and more people realize that they need to own their stuff, and not rent it or rely on "free" commercial software for their design work, that FreeCad will reach a critical mass of users, developers, and donations to lead it forward. As you noted, FreeCad is improving greatly. I've seen more improvement in the last year than in the previous five years. I will personally donate substantially to a development bounty for a better user interface. Here's hoping. In the meantime, I mostly use OpenScad.

[@TheRob2D]

You were not. FreeCAD is absolutely unusable for any real workplace. It's a fine project and a fun distraction if you're bored someday but as a tool to actually do work it's horrendous.

[@SrObser]

I know it's gonna be a bad day when I have to do some CAD modeling in the only program I have access at the time is freeCAD. Huge headaches to follow. I can describe the experience as trying to debug code while under a high dose of caffeine.

[@justRD1]

And yet i'm over here modeling in FreeCAD to export to fusion360 for CAM. I would use fusion for CAD but it's a complete turd.

[@newolde1]

You just never learned to CAD semantically. Understandable though, it's similar to semantic coding languages, not everyone will take the time to thoroughly learn and get used to the process that it takes to use them well. No worries either way, there are other programs more suited to your tastes. That said your judgemental stance is far from reality. And, yes, it does have some bugs, it is still in beta for a reason. But then every closed source CAD program I've used has bugs too, and they're not beta and probably have 10 times as many paid devs working on them full time.

[@chrisdixon5241]

Hi Angus, I'm a long time FreeCAD user and I don't disagree with the points you raise. That said, as others have mentioned, what you are experiencing is related to renaming of faces due to modifications. This is an area that Onsel have worked heavily on and will hopefully soon make it back into FreeCAD. I would classify it as a querk rather than a bug, and FreeCAD isn't the only CAD solution to suffer from it, but I totally understand how off putting it could be for beginners. I would also note that the Part Design workbench is more of a "hand-holding", "on-rails" approach to CAD and that the Part workbench is more leanient in what it allows a user to do and potentially more obvious about why a problem occurs during modifications. Like any powerful and complex software, there is a learning curve to FreeCAD, but I do believe it is worth the time and effort, and it must be remembered that the developers are donating their work freely and with no expectation of anything in return, as opposed to some other CAD solutions.

[@robonator2945]

Newcomers are *_exactly_* the ones who are most likely to benefit from learning freecad. People with experience elsewhere who have had gritty details obfuscated have to unlearn and relearn the most, whereas people who start with everything being directly there and visible don't need to unlearn any old habits and get to learn CAD as it is, rather than how it is, with safety rails. You see the same thing when it comes to programming languages like Rust which impose a ton of additional restrictions and controls; experienced people say "start learning with ___insert language here___ *_then_* learn Rust" whereas people who started with Rust frequently say the exact opposite, that you *_should_* start with Rust because it will force you to address the gotchas most other languages don't even warn you about. Also, especially with CAD programs, piracy really ain't even an option. It is for some of them, but for others like Fusion 360 a crack is literally impossible because it relies so much on server infrastructure.

[@ThantiK]

FreeCAD users shouldn't need to unlearn _INDUSTRY STANDARD_ practices. EVERY cad program works the same. If you know solidworks, you can jump over to Fusion, OnShape, almost _ANY_ CAD program, and get going with little to no friction. If FreeCAD requires unlearning _industry standard_ ways of doing things, then they're literally learning themselves into a corner. FreeCAD has existed for more than 20 years now. There's no real excuse for it being this bad still.

[@ChrisUG]

There is something to this yes, but why let someone setup references to faces which can change in the first place? Either enforce shapebinder, datum planes, etc. OR automate them (which is basically what other software does) The middle ground that doesnt work was a silly choice

[@tomastelensky-vlog8723]

Didnt' know Bear Grylls is into CAD modelling!

[@genericyoutuber3394]

FreeCad users can be so toxic to someone that does not prefer it. Just because it's open source and free doesn't make it great automatically. If you like it, use it. If you don't like use then don't use it.

[@ReedCBowman]

Every bit of the frustrations you're talking about, with rigidity of thinking on the part of the programmers, restrictions on abilities to do things for no clear reason, completely opaque errors, and especially random, unrelated things breaking when you alter things in the timeline, sound exactly like why I regularly end up screaming at Fusion 360. It always feels like it's version 0.8 (when I started using it, it felt more like 0.6, so yeah, it's improved, but still...). Based on this, I might try FreeCAD since it doesn't sound any worse. I will also agree about Onshape. It is the one and only CAD program I've ever tried that felt intuitive, and where all the behaviors I considered obvious and necessary actually work the way they clearly should. If it weren't for their Free version rugpull that they inflicted on all us early users, I'd still be using it and probably be much happier. But I don't consider them trustworthy because of that.