Was Sonic Mania The BEST In The Series?

[@mechajay3358]

Sonic Mania did a lot to get fans to appreciate the franchise again. It's such a perfect game and after 5 years, it still holds up.

[@TheRealNintendoKid]

that's because they went back to what made it popular in the first place.

[@StevenJones851]

It's a pretty good game

[@bswalem]

I don't understand why Sega didn't immediately commission the team to develop sonic 5 😭

[@TerryKashat]

The color mods are a must.

[@WAFFENFABRIK]

Studiopolis goes on for way too long though lmao

[@8-bitsarda747]

I love the fact that in the final boss fight, the timer is going completely bonkers

[@charmyzard]

I had the pogface of all time when I noticed that my first time there.

[@charmyzard]

Loved how J's said both "Hydrocity" and "Hydro-City" just making us go insane.

[@LorenHelgeson]

Yeah, and there's two ways to pronounce "carribean." I use them interchangeably depending on the context of the sentence, and my general mood at the time of saying them. That's life. Get used to it.

[@cjtquk]

I always say it as "Hydo City" yet I find most american youtubers say it as one whole word so they sound like megamind.

[@KazumiKiguma]

@@LorenHelgeson You sound like a very fun person to spend time with.

[@NameChecksOut]

@@LorenHelgeson Why so passive aggressive lmfao like who shit in your cereal nigga

[@guh2709]

@@KazumiKiguma Very fun

[@totempoleman7810]

Six years later and I still have to ask: How is it that there isn't official sequel for this game? EDIT: Well look at that, Sonic Superstars is coming out in this year so it might as well be the anwser to my question right now. The question is if whenever Arzest is able to pull it of without screwing it up completely. At least Zones are somewhat new and physics seem to be on point so much so that they are even approved by Christian Whitehead himself in social media.

[@mrnukes797]

The controversy with sonic origins is the same team that made mania and sega was being uncooperative and demanding essentially another example of why nintendo is better it got so bad they the team said after fixing sonic origins they will never work with sega ever again kzbin.info/www/bejne/a2m3onWan6ajjLM

[@diemaschineistrash3791]

It’s really dumb. Sonic mania 2 with 8 new zones and 4 remakes would be a banger

[@Rman1228]

The developers of the game had a really bad relationship with SEGA during and after the game released as far as I know so them coming back for a sequel is probably unlikely.

[@diemaschineistrash3791]

@@Rman1228 well f sega

[@kieranstark7213]

@@Rman1228 Touche, but if Modern Sonic Mania were a thing, it would make for a sequel about as great as the original Mania!

[@DoritoGOD2811]

If they make a Mania 2 and are forced to reuse old stages, then I hope they use stages from the 3d games. I think it would be cool to see modern stages reimagined in a retro 2d style.

[@mania4270]

Sonic superstars seems to be the next step

[@jurassicarkjordanisgreat1778]

Yeah imagine what they would look like before the events of the modern games. (I still will keep having my headcanon that classic is just younger sonic.

[@cloudshines812]

@@mania4270Say what you will about Superstars, but I liked how the game was essentially like playing Generations Classic Sonic in a full package. I’m quite glad it didn’t fall into the nostalgia bait trap of Sonic 4 and while not as strong as 2 or Mania… I still would say its on par or surpassing 3 and 1

[@mania4270]

@@cloudshines812 yeah I like this game too. I actually agree with you but I think it's better than mania. It controlled perfectly, for me at least, the new powers added more variety, different themed levels and not just green hill and chemical plant everywhere, and I liked the story and different characters and how they played. I thought it was better than mania. Just not better than sonic 2 or 3/knuckles

[@bswalem]

​@@cloudshines812 Superstars better than 3&Knuckles?!

[@noctarin1516]

About the classic Sonic "redesign" you seemed to have complained about, it seems more to me that it was inspired in style by the Junio Sonic iteration of him from the Sonic CD cutscenes, where he has that "Cutesy" style, and the light blue shade. This is especially visible when you compare the cutscenes of both Sonic CD and Sonic Mania.

[@corel7966]

the original cels from the animation had a darker blue hue though, for the record.

[@noctarin1516]

@@corel7966 I think it was probably the intention of the Mania devs to replicate the Junio style anyhow, the way the cels looked originally did not matter as that was just the way we viewed Junio Sonic now anyways.

[@corel7966]

@@noctarin1516 i get that. i figured it'd be nice to bring it up. (I do wish the sprites resembled the animations character design though)

[@decidueyesrandm5526]

The animation is confirmed to be based heavily on it I have that physical edition book which acknowledges the similarities

[@wesshiflet2214]

the shade of blue was also established as the official look of “Classic Sonic” by SEGA in Generations

[@HordikaNate3821]

Personally speaking I remember playing this game first at my Cousins house for Thanksgiving, I had this nice odd warm feeling of comfort similar to playing Sonic 1 and 2 on my parents old Mac with the lights out as a kid back in 2012. Even past that, it was just a fun game, I'd add things to it(new levels), but it's still solid Edit: sorry if I made you feel old while reading this, but if it helps I made myself feel younger than I was already.

[@XXXXX8]

"As a kid in 2012" damn.

[@HordikaNate3821]

@@XXXXX8 I turn 20 in February of next year Yeah

[@HordikaNate3821]

@normal guy That was in 2017, my Cousins had their PS4 set up so they lent me it for an hour. Before than I had roms of the Genesis games that I played on weekends

[@oranje525]

I remember playing it around thanksgiving as well. Small world!

[@Vegeta654]

Funny how you said you were a kid in 2012 when in 2017 you were still a kid 💀

[@gengargamer5657]

I hate the face that people say there hasn't been a good game since Generations even though this gem exists

[@DoctorDisasterDracula]

I totally agree with the Lava Reef section. But I still gotta give props to the team for Knuckle’s campaign where he takes a different path and ends up at the Master Emerald alter, and has a goofy flashback to Eggman stealing it.

[@Green_Pix-L]

True.

[@cloudshines812]

Fun fact, if you use debug mode… you can actually find an unused hidden palace zone location that Sonic and Tails were supposed to access… complete with the super Emeralds in power

[@Cheesehead302]

This is my favorite 2d Sonic game. It has the most rewarding exploration, best level design, and best mechanics in any of them. It's also the one I've replayed the most, it's just really easy to pick up and play through over and over.

[@nottoofast]

It's insane how well this whole series has played out. It's been so long but now there's only one game left, and right before the next one's going to release. It's really cool.

[@soraingaegis3086]

As someone who's honestly not big on the Genesis Trilogy, Sonic Mania is easily on of the best designed Sonic games I've ever played. Everything just works so well - even if there are some zones that go on for far longer than they really should. Flying Battery. Titanic Monarch. Lookin' at you.

[@TimurSokol]

Playing Sonic Mania gave me motivation to beat all of the classic games because I used to drop them pretty quickly and now I beat them a lot of times and the last time was in Sonic Origins

[@GuyInUrSnackCabinet]

With the way act 2 looks TMZ should of just been one act,but of course they had to be like "no every zone needs 2 acts" So we got TWO very long and difficult acts,which sucks. I hate act 1,but act 2 should of been the only act.

[@TheJadeFist]

I loved Titanic Monarch Act 1, Act 2... exists, maybe it could/should have just gone straight to a boss fight.

[@GuyInUrSnackCabinet]

@@TheJadeFist Yeah,I feel like all the portal stuff in act 2 wasn't really nessacary

[@Darkfawfulx]

Honestly I love TMZ atleast act 1. Love the Final Fortress aesthetic in act 1 and the Stained Glass in act 2.

[@ElectrikStatik900]

I agree that there should've been more original levels than throwback ones. Seeing the same stuff over and over throughout multiple games can get really stale after a while.

[@Green_Pix-L]

Yeah but thankfully it doesn't keep the game from being fun.

[@ObaREX]

The gameplay and level design of Mania is amazing. I replay it often. But it still failed to recapture the epic adventure of 3&K. Whenever I play that game, I feel like I'm building up to an amazing climax. In Mania, I feel like I'm just playing around as Sonic.

[@mjc0961]

Also, at least for me, Mania has so many dud boss fights. Especially that stupid spider with a wonky hitbox, and that Hard Boiled Heavy that speeds around on a giant moto-bug. I will never enjoy fighting those bosses.

[@Dhampire1976]

well,that was the point. this was not another big time massive climax adventure,it was a build up and prelude to sonic forces lmao

[@The94Venom]

@@Dhampire1976 They should have focused on making the climax of the story actually worth it, then

[@Dhampire1976]

@@The94Venom well,as I said and am repeatng myself again,it was a prelude to sonic forces,meaning the "climax" was supposed to be sonic forces itself. read child

[@The94Venom]

@@Dhampire1976 I understood you perfectly. What I said is that the "climax" was ass.

[@shonenbois]

Tee Lopes went so hard on Sonic Mania’s soundtrack🔥

[@williamwhite1036]

This and Unleashed are my favorite Sonic soundtracks

[@bumpy_gaming]

While Sonic Mania may still be a truly great game after all these years, it unfortunately lead to SEGA using Classic Sonic as a "crutch" of sorts, which then gave us: Classic Sonic being shoehorned into Forces, the Mania Adventures cartoons where every other frame would become a meme, Classic Sonic and Tails being guest characters in Monkey Ball as opposed to their modern counterparts, etc etc.

[@felixdaniels37]

Sonic Mania Adventures was fantastic, I will not tolerate this slander.

[@bumpy_gaming]

@@felixdaniels37 I didn't say Mania Adventures was bad, it's just that I was kind of annoyed with how practically every frame of that show (and by extension, all of the subsequent Sonic cartoons) was turned into a meme

[@Green_Pix-L]

I agree but Sonic Mania Adventures is my favorite depiction of the Sonic universe.

[@Green_Pix-L]

@@bumpy_gaming That is true.

[@MaskedGuyCh]

Sonic Mania is definitely a contender for best Sonic game. The amount of love and attention put into it is insane. The soundtrack is top tier, I still listen to it every now and then.

[@dmtrsgrksrphl2501]

TBH I love this game. In my honest opinion this finally trumped the genesis Games and got the highest review scores. I enjoy every minute of this game and my favourite character btw is Mighty. He is pretty much unkillable from spikes and other stuff. All the extras add so much too. Why have we not been given a sequel to this? Sega loves to sit on money sometimes.

[@Carsonj13]

you let review scores dictate what you like? please say no...

[@dmtrsgrksrphl2501]

@@Carsonj13 NO. I thoroughly enjoy the game since I first played it

[@MicahBuzanANIMATION]

A sequel to Sonic Mania is guaranteed critical and commercial success. I don't understand Sega sometimes.

[@celesticnova]

Whether or not it's the best, it's definitely my favorite.

[@arjunmenon1796]

Isn't best and favourite the same thing though? Since video games are subjective.

[@runningoncylinders3829]

@@arjunmenon1796 There's ways to rate games by how content-filled or the polish of said content. Mania does well in this regard. Whether you call it the best or your fav though is a matter of opinion.

[@miimiiandco]

@@arjunmenon1796 Not necessarily. Typically people prefer better games, though people can love a game for other reasons. Or, not be as into a game for reasons other than how good it is.

[@arjunmenon1796]

@@miimiiandco But whether or not a game is good or not is subjective.

[@arjunmenon1796]

@@runningoncylinders3829 I agree

[@PiousMoltar]

What blows my mind is that when an early beta of Sonic 3 leaked a couple years ago, it had the drop dash. The Mania team had no knowledge of this. It was a complete coincidence. But I guess it shows that the Mania team really were on the same wavelength as Sonic Team in the early 90s, to the point that they independently invented the same thing.

[@craftyawesome6830]

8:40 Knuckles is actually quite pink in the cutscenes of sonic 3. He is also quite pink on the European box art and early fleetway comics. And he is pink in Chaotix. There is a good video on this called "Knuckles used to be pink (and I miss it)"

[@thefastcommenter7774]

Knuckles looks better red than pink

[@ChaoSoda1]

bro i JUST got mania on my PC 1 day ago and then you drop another BANGER video, damn.

[@blizzardforonline1954]

About Ray’s flying mechanic… Johnny Ortiz said it best. It’s the Cape Feather from Mario World.

[@deaglehawkings2543]

I could only imagine an alternate universe where Sonic Mania never existed, in my opinion it could even trump 06's poor reception and could even drive away more fans from the community, but thankfully Mania has given me as well as millions of other hope that Sonic is still the badass blue blur we all knew and loved from our childhood's.

[@runningoncylinders3829]

I saw this video through and felt likeminded with the final takeaway that I felt like I should've been revisiting Mania a bunch, but hadn't. Since it's as fun as the classics, but to "excite" it had to exceed itself unrealistically far. I would love to imagine the alternate universe where the 06 team hadn't been split to work on Secret Rings, wiping out the storybook series, and gotten 06 an added year of development. Wasted potential made 06 the sourest.

[@gokublack9724]

Personally I prefer 3 & Knuckles over mania mainly because of originality, for example mania only has 4 new zones of the 12 total which while having different level design, still loses points (not as much as forces) for rehashing previous zones

[@nightwish1453]

something that Mania that does win over 3 and knuckles is replayability, the modding scene for mania is far bigger then 3 and knuckles to the point it comes as close as generations

[@madmouse4400]

That's also why I kind of love mania , but not that much as other fans . I'd personally love mania more if they didn't reuse that much previous stages from almost 25 years ago . One thing I enjoy in 2d sonic games is to discover new stages and hear new music , creating an almost totally new experience with each games . Mania is even lower than the Advance trilogy as my favorite 2d sonic games because of its lack of original zone while each of the advance games introduced new environments based on recurrent themes like music plants or chaos angel .

[@GuyInUrSnackCabinet]

@@madmouse4400 another reason to hate sega.

[@RaphielShiraha64]

@@madmouse4400 Do you have any sources for that? this is the first time i'm hearing that.

[@richardperaza5083]

For me it's the same reason as well but when the Plus DLC came out I think it makes it better

[@3godzilla3]

SO glad I'm not the only one who felt the same with the light blue thing. It's just nowhere near as cool as the darker "Sonic" blue. As for the "cutesy" design, it also bothered me. People keep saying that they were trying to replicate the Sonc CD opening for Sonic's representation, but they only carried over the "cute" aspect and not the "attitude" aspect. You can fully see the serious, heroic side of Sonic in that entire cutscene, and it's so good. None of that in Mania, it's just the juvenile "happy" tone. I see Sonic more of a "cool bad-a**" then I do a happy-go-lucky cartoon.

[@fengxii]

As an adventure fanboy this game is really Top 3 for me. The thoughtful, polished design and lush aesthetics make it such an achievement

[@No1_Bk]

I love sonic mania but that darker blue and red knuckles look so cool and are much more appealing to look at than their stock colour schemes

[@ViroVeteruscy]

The only negatives Mania really has was being forced to not have all original zones and being tied to Forces.

[@b_e_p_i_s_m_a_n6212]

Mania is an incredibly well-made game, though I kinda agree with what you said about it not really capturing the imagination much, being more of a Sonic equivalent to a "best-of" album. The zones are really well-designed, but, even at launch, I felt something off about the player just being ping-ponged between them, which killed the feeling of working your way through a world that was present in 3K and even the Advance/Rush games. This was improved a bit with the Plus patch, which ensured that all zones got proper transitions, but even, many of them seemed like afterthoughts. The games' usual tendency towards spectacle felt somewhat subdued here, especially with Egg Reverie, which was kind of lame as a Super Sonic fight and really just felt there because it was a series staple. Don't get me wrong, I love this game, and I'm one of those aforementioned people that have logged hundreds of hours into it (partially due to the fact that I've done some mods for the game), but I do agree with some of your takes on Mania.

[@bchristian85]

Mania is up against S3&K, arguable the best Sonic game of all time. It falls slightly short, but that's more indicative of how awesome 3&K was than the shortfalls of Mania. For me, there's only two real shortfalls in Mania, the Mean Bean Machine boss and the fact all of Act 1 of Mirage Saloon (for Sonic and Tails) is a Sky Chase homage.

[@Dazyhead]

Mania single handedly revived my love for sonic. It grinded to a slow burn around black knight but was broken with sonic 4. Sonic 2 was the very first game I ever experienced way back in the early 90s. I even watched the ova when it aired in NA. Mania is one of the best sonic games and I'm super hyped for frontiers. Also, cd sonic has the best look

[@adamx9065]

I kinda like the lighter blue color as way to recognize which game you're looking at at a glance. It gives the game a bit of its own identity without messing with the character design much.

[@TheYoshiChannel-7]

I’ve was thinking no he wouldn’t critique the shade of blue he is. But he should and you actually did it I agree 100% the dark blue looks so clean I prefer it too

[@CanalDoRyu]

Yeah, I agree most of the game consisting of remade levels from previous games hurt it more than anything else, it makes Mania feel more like a Greatest Hits compilation instead of a new 2D Sonic game, even though it technically is new. Seriously, Sega, stop this nostalgia shit and let people make a fully new 2D Sonic game, or even 3D, since Frontiers also has Green Hill, Chemical Plant and Sky Sanctuary... again.

[@seematahir5970]

As awesome as Mania was, I can't help but resent it a little for what it did to the perception of Sonic and the state of the franchise. Being a Sonic fan in 2017 was miserable. Having Mania and Forces coexist the way they did spawned an endless number of video essays and think pieces about how 2D Sonic was the series' future and how 3D Sonic deserved to be forgotten. It was agony. And on top of that it reinforced the "nostalgia = good" message to SEGA, which probably explains the presence of cyberspace in Frontiers. Did you love the Advance games? The Rush duology? Colors DS? Well too bad, now Classic Sonic iconography is everywhere, and SEGA shat out another collection of the orginal classics that was, of course, rushed. Hell, for as flawed as it was, Sonic 4 Episode II made great strides to improve on the original, maybe the third one could've been remarkable. But at this point it's never going to happen. Sonic Mania was a work of love. Even under limitations, Whitehead and his team produced a great game. It is also game that is 2/3 reused aesthetics, and which features resued level designs for every single Act 1. But when Frontiers does it as a complement to its main gameplay, suddenly its bad? Sonic Team has also been under fire, being constantly slandered in increasingly disgusting ways, and people demand that Sonic be handed over to the fans, or Nintendo, without considering that these people have produced true works of talent, and are often just held back by corporate limitations. Sonic Mania represents a lot of what I love about Sonic, but it spawned so much of what I hate about it. Frontiers has finally given Sonic Team a chance to realize a vision and complete it with more time than they've ever had before. I just hope it'll pay off.

[@Slakkmichael]

Took the words right out of my mouth.

[@sonic5993]

Blame Sega for making shitty games then.

[@seematahir5970]

@@sonic5993 SEGA doesn't make the games. They rush their developers and force them to make their games shitty, instead of giving them the time they need.

[@RaphielShiraha64]

@@seematahir5970 100% heck the first sonic boom game was so much bugged and full of errors, because the developers started making the game for x consoles then Sega out of nowhere made a contract with Nintendo that involved the devs WITHOUT THEM KNOWING UTIL LATER, basically they had to make a sonic game for the wii u now instead (which is the reason we got what we got) the only issue with that is, that the devs now not only had less time to work on the game, they had to recode the entire game from scratch to make it work with the wii u.

[@sonic5993]

@@seematahir5970 the end result is the same

[@Soma_Shotgun]

The Heavy Rider is not only riding a Motobug but that Motobug is named after a Sonic romhacker who is no longer with us.

[@JasLamArr91]

I just wished that 80% of this game wasn’t rehashed levels of the 4 classic games.

[@ToxiChaos]

Sonic Mania Plus was one of the first games I got when I got my switch in 2018 (the other game was smash), and I honestly didn't even touch smash for like a week, Mania was just so magical, and the music will always make me think of winter when I bought the game

[@thefastcommenter7774]

First game I got on my Switch was Mario Maker 2

[@ningensan8198]

You captured exactly my feelings about the game. I really wanted to love it more but every time I entered a remade level I was like again? On the other side I really really enjoyed the new levels! I wish the game was delayed a year or two to come out with a completely new roster of stages

[@RaphielShiraha64]

I doubt delaying the game would have made it got more original levels, after all this game was made and intended to be a anniversary game similar to generations.

[@RaphielShiraha64]

@Devin Garcia ???

[@sdpr_5]

I love how you not only review the games, but give a cohesive timeline and background of the state of the franchise during the followup to release

[@Victory-in-YAHUSHA]

Great review as always! I feel the same way with Sonic Mania. It is not a bad game by any means but it just does not compell me like S3&K does. Most of it has to do with the style of the music. I prefer the way the music sounds in the Genesis Sonic games.

[@themissingbits6375]

I love Sonic Mania … However i must say This. After playing a lot of the handheld games, and Then going back to Mania, i am kinda sad that This game is basically “The Sequal to Sonic 3” (Now if you ask me Sonic Mania is less a Sonic 4 and more of an celebration to the classic era) There is a lot of moves that took the Sonic gameplay even further in the handheld titels. Advance 1 added the Air dash, And Amy to the Series, and Advance 2 introduced the boost mode which is one of the best moves in the Series, since it rewards skilled players for playing Well, and Advance 3 just took it even further with the Tag teams stuff where you could do a lot of fun moves like Spin dashing on a Wall as Knuckles. Sonic Rush, and Rush Adventure took a diffrent direction but that was a diffrent Series of games. And Then we have Mania that removes all of these great ideas to the gameplay and began from Scratch. It still an amazing time, but just imagine that we could make climbing up Walls fun again.

[@zero-sama2879]

and to think that SONIC TEAM is bad at making SONIC GAMES is baffling to me! seriously that the fans are the ones that do good games! why cant sega learn with them!?

[@Theachivmentsearcher]

Every game feels likes an anniversary game at this point

[@delightful_pov]

I really love this Sonic Mania, although I like Generations better as an anniversary game. I think it saved the series (again)

[@clintwaki6936]

Sonic Mania was 5 years ago? Time is moving too fast.

[@zerobeat032]

It's odd, I didn't think I'd love Mania as much as I did, but it's one of my favorite titles in the franchise now. it and Streets of Rage 4 are my pick up and play games when I just wanna have a quick fun romp of a game. I don't even need to beat them, just play a few levels, almost any of them, and then get my fill and turn them off. Mania is just quick fun and I think that's what I love the most about it, at least after beating it. It's something I can boot up within seconds and just play a few levels and have a ton of fun, then go back to something else.

[@taptiotrevizo9415]

5 years man, we are getting old

[@theirishpotato6588]

Yee 😢

[@HordikaNate3821]

To think I was in fucking middle school going into high school when Mania and Forces were announced....

[@justice8718]

Why don’t you visit the man upstairs if you feel that your life is but a vapor?

[@MarkMann1]

Man, I remember leaking this game and basically hallucinating since I wanted to sleep but felt the need to show off all the stages

[@EN_les]

sonic has developed a deeply toxic relationship with nostalgia, which series like mario and kirby largely maintain in more intelligent ways. i've always been way more of a sonic fan than a mario fan but ironically, when odyssey and mania both came out in the same year, SMO was the one i found myself actually playing through to the very end and then kept playing for hours on end whereas i never really got all that far in mania despite my respect for it. and i think watching this video really shined a light on why: mania is tightly designed and lovingly crafted, but it just isn't _exciting._ so many of the tropes it pulls from have been tired already and it just doesn't lend itself well to the coherent story structure that S3&K had and later games would expand upon. odyssey, on the other hand. not only did it actually feel like a grand adventure with memorable set pieces and at least some semblance of stakes involved, something i had been wanting out of sonic for YEARS, but when it rewards your completion of the game by letting you run around peach's castle from mario 64, even as someone who never really played a lot of that game, i went.. *holy shit that's fucking cool.* because nostalgia for SM64 was still an untapped novelty, rather than something that mania simply couldn't achieve no matter how well it rebuilt its lineup of classic stages, since by this point it was the third major time after sonic 4 and generations that we were seeing these tropes. funny how that works.

[@justice8718]

Sonic oddly never had a nostalgia issue. They used green hill and it’s aesthetics as a usual base line for the first zone because it’s the location that represents Sonic the Hedgehog himself, but the music itself and aesthetics are supposed to be notably different. Frontiers in particular had obvious budget issues. Mania makes it feel that way because they didn’t transform the zones properly and just made them remakes of the original zones, without properly considering how the Ruby, Eggman, and the Egg King would change them or use them for their own purposes. That’s why Forces actually did build up to a cool final boss and Mania didn’t.

[@derekhibbard9018]

20:34 That’s funny, I do the special stages opposite and like to grab as many rings as possible, so I can focus on the stage and not my timer

[@joeker5208]

I feel exactly same about this game. It’s a quality title, but I’ve already everything this game has done basically. Sonic to me is (was) appealing because it was always a series that was constantly evolving.

[@ObaREX]

I'd say the game IS an evolution. It just needed newer presentation. More new levels. Newer art design.

[@runningoncylinders3829]

Green Hill Curse hasn't left. Generations left a much bigger impression on me than Mania for being the predecessor with a greater scope and modern evolution and blending of legacy ideas. Mania builds upon legacy ideas while being true to them because it's essentially a classic Sonic game. Generations isn't so much, moreso a legacy current gen game.

[@RealLarsUlrichISwear]

This was my first sonic game I got it after the sonic movie back in 2020. And now I have played most of the games.

[@hugoflores1093]

I feel the same way as you J Manía is downright a perfect game But it doesn't leave the same mark in me as rushing to stop the Death Egg from relauching, bringing peace to Chaos, stopping the Ark or Metal Overlord Reviewers can praise all they want the momentum, múltiple routes and a "cartoony" tone (even tho Sonic started as something of a Shonen protagonist in the japanese manuals) But for me Sonic is Adventure, emotion, spectacle, challenging platforming with a robust moveset with a banger of an ending Manía is briliiant and lots of fun, but man the Phantom Ruby just teleports you and i don't really feel risk

[@justice8718]

The phantom ruby is used far more poorly in Mania. In Forces, the ruby does make you think and feel its power when it actually impacts a stage or boss fight. Forces overall thought more about how Eggman would conquer and change these locations.

[@maxhocks2006]

Whatever you think of mania it’s wild that the fan made game out shined the big budget sonic team game. Mania was supposed to be a little side project. For a lot of fans it was the best sonic game that year. That’s crazy.

[@DesignDoc]

Yes. Yes it was. Do I wish it was a fully original Classic Sonic Game with all original levels and a more cohesive story? Also yes but the first point still stands lol. You do bring up a fair point. There is a solid argument that while this can be argued to be one of the best Sonic GAMES, it might not be the best Sonic EXPERIENCE because it's another series tribute like Generations.

[@kieranstark7213]

Unlike the infamous Sonic the Hedgehog 4 Episode I and Episode II, this game feels like a proper follow up to the classic Sonic games by bringing in some new stages and bringing back all Sonic, Tails, and Knuckles. Sega hired multiple fans of Sonic the Hedgehog who had made their own Sonic fan games, including Christian Whitehead, who created the mobile ports of Sonic 1, 2, and CD, to develop the game. The game has remastered old stages and brand new stages. The older stages especially have some new gimmicks that doesn't make the stages feel fully rehashed in the process. Amazing soundtrack by Tee Lopes and Hyper Potions. You can play as Sonic, Tails, and Knuckles, and they all play as they did in Sonic 3 & Knuckles. Playing as Knuckles changes some aspects of the game (for example, some levels are changed in terms of design, and Knuckles has alternate bosses), which gives the game great replay value. Mighty the Armadillo and Ray the Flying Squirrel, originally from SegaSonic the Hedgehog, make their triumphant return an update named Sonic Mania Plus, after two decades of absence (Ray's absence was 25 years long, while Mighty's appearance in Knuckles' Chaotix made his absence only 23 years long). The Drop Dash from the Sonic the Hedgehog 3 prototype build makes its first official appearance in a game. Gorgeous graphics which accurately represents the Genesis Sonic games graphics but also does many things the actual Genesis hardware couldn't for the sake of making animations smoother and the graphics cleaner. In a way, the game gives an idea of what a 2D Sonic game for the Sega Saturn could've looked like. The Elemental Shields are brought back, and the Combine Ring is back for the first time since Knuckles' Chaotix. There are plenty of references to Sega's history and even Sonic's own history in the game. Creative boss battles. Some of them are direct homages to Sonic bosses in past games and even spin-offs, for example, the Chemical Plant boss is literally a game of Mean Bean Machine, while the Hydrocity mini-boss is the boss of Hydrocity in Sonic 3 & Knuckles with the roles reversed. On that topic, this games has tons of different bosses. Awesome new and old special stages, which require you to catch UFO before time runs out by grabbing blue orbs to increase your speed and rings to increase your time limit. These are accessed by finding a giant ring hidden within the levels. Blue Spheres is back as an optional bonus stage. There was fan demand for the game to be released physically but the developers felt it would be expensive for such a simple game so they released a new DLC for the game and extra goodies such as an artbook that has behind the scenes stuff and a reversable cover that acts like a Genesis/Megadrive game. There is New Game+ in a sense; continuing a game from a Clear save will carry over your score from the end of the game, in addition to the usual Chaos Emeralds and a life counter. Plus has Encore Mode. In addition to changing the level layouts and giving all of the levels a Palette Swap, Encore Mode introduces a brand new gimmick where instead of having Video-Game Lives, you can collect other party members and swap between on-screen characters instantly, as well as use power-ups to change playable characters in the middle of a stage. Encore Mode also features a brand new Bonus Stage and harder Special Stages (played in reverse order).

[@felipe_drawmania1604]

@@kieranstark7213 I feel like a way to describe Mania is that while It was a great outcome,It wasn't the best that It could be(even If It was still really good).

[@kieranstark7213]

True

[@blewrei1366]

It's a great game but i feel it suffers from not having enough original levels, so it hasn't surpassed sonic 3K in my eyes.

[@boshwa20]

I'm just.....I have no nostalgic attachment for classic sonic. And that's because I was introduced to the series with the storybook games, zero gravity, and Rush. Waiting for a port, remaster, or a remake is hell when I'm seeing green hill zone for the 10th time And after colors ultimate, now I have less faith in them actually doing it

[@edwardramos4591]

While I'd put it just below Adventure 2 and Generations as far as my favorites are concerned, as someone who loved the Mega Collection as a kid, Mania definitely deserves that bronze medal.

[@freshlyfishedbread5567]

i have to say, despite scoffing at some of the stuff you said in this video, your videos are amazing and i love them.

[@erindelgado9639]

Yeah as Sonic Mania is a great game but won’t say it’s my fav game since I do feel Generations did a great job also with callbacks and being a tritube. We’ll next week will be your Sonic games finale with Forces as that is the game that gave us the biggest wake up call for everyone. Great job and look forward.

[@jackskirata4819]

I’m mixed on Mania. It’s a great game on it’s own. In the wider scope of the series, it feels like Sega gave up and just defaulted to nostalgia bait. Kinda like The Force Awakens. Maybe if it was more original instead of recycling old zones, I’d feel different. I gotta admit, it’s a pretty sweet game. And it’s nice to see Mighty and Ray after seeing them in the Shattered World Crisis arc in the Archie Comics.

[@RaphielShiraha64]

The thing is mania was always made as a "nostalgia" bait from the start, it was always intended to be a 2d classic sonic game for the older fans of sonic, in fact like stated in this video it was supposed to be a anniversary game similar to generations, now if sega wanted 100% mania to be a full original game then that would have been something entirely different.

[@jruler93]

There's actually an in-game cheat that lets Sonic have the Super Peel Out, Insta-Shield and Drop Dash all at once. If you have enough Blue Spheres medals, you can unlock Debug Mode. Turn it on and hold the left face button when loading a file to enter a Level Select with a sound test. Play sounds 9-0-0-1, then start a game as Sonic, and you'll have all three at once, until you turn the game off.

[@henrycervantes249]

I love Mania now just as much as i did then, but yeah each time I go back there is a noticeable demeanor i have towards the game. Many parts don’t pop out as much as i know they do for others, i mostly blame the reused zones. But I always considered this a nitpick more than anything. The only true crime is why we haven’t gotten any sort of Mania sequel or successor since. We know Sega likes to chase money and Sonic Origins existing shows they still got Mania in their minds cause of reused sounds and Mania Adventures being included in the game. There were rumors of Sega putting down a Mania sequel, but that was always just a rumor. Man, imagine a modern Sonic Mania, with all original zones, and maybe have sprite work based off the Advance games, all done by the Mania team, that would be legendary. But i guess were stuck imagining, so yeah, Mania good…

[@justice8718]

I think blaming the reused zones is a terrible excuse since they clearly could change them in any way they could, especially the music.

[@tsyumamatsuthehavenofguard32]

God. I played this game so much for almost two years straight, doing every campaign, a knuckles and knuckles playthrough, having another year just dedicated to figuring out how to get the chaos emeralds in encore mode without research, eventually doing _another_ playthrough to get all the gold coins from blue sphere, like a goddamn madman. I love this game, even with the obvious problems this game has. And while yes, those are some massive holes, it does show even if it was a lightning strike in a bottle once not twice, fans had a better understanding of how classic sonic design works... ...which kind of... looks bad on Sega of Japan, I'm just grateful this game even exists

[@illshouyu]

I mostly just agree with the complaint that was common around its release, which is that it would have been nice to get a story as complex as S3&K. What we got with the Phantom Ruby was just not as interesting as Knuckles and his redemption.

[@supersandwichdz4491]

around the time people started talking about a potential "sonic mania 2," i was thinking it would be really cool if this alleged mania 2 was a revival of the best parts of the sonic advance or sonic rush style gameplay, so more people could play those, since everyone under the sun has played a genesis styled sonic game at this point.

[@HazeX2]

Dark blue Sonic looks so much better

[@Salwarehouse]

Definitely agree with your concluding thoughts. Mania is great as a standalone game, but as part of a series it feels a little too derivative.

[@Sonic171K]

I gave this game too much praise just because it was an actual good Sonic game in a long time. But honestly I enjoyed and spent more time with Sonic Origins. Sonic Mania brought back many stages I don't like and the final stage was just the worst for me.

[@rorychivers8769]

It's like they just don't understand that the the magic of the original Sonic was that at its core, it was a physics game. Among 2d platformers of the era, it was the F1 simulator of the bunch. That was it.

[@JohnnyTightlips2007]

Definitely look into Freedom Planet after the Sonic retrospective.

[@teaguevox8160]

Couldn't disagree more on the notion that returning levels and bosses were boring by not being a new concept. Having the death egg robot as GH's boss was more of a subversion of your expectations by having a final boss show up as a stage one boss, and being what it is makes it more of a nod or celebration of Sonic's history, which is what I see this game to be more of than just a standalone entry. Not only did they bring some of my favorite levels back, but they're so much better now. Which is really what I wanted them to be doing this whole time. Revisiting them but giving them cool, fun new tools to elevate them even more. And once again, returning levels are a celebration of Sonic's history (or at least the good parts of it) in this context. Saying it's something you've seen before only really applies if it's one-to-one the same boss fight and level layout in this kinda scenario, in my mind anyway, so I definitely disagree. Even in the new levels, everything from enemies to their placement and the level's design tend to call back to classic titles. The zig-zagging platforms in Titanic Monarch are a reference to the very same ones from Scrap Brain Zone in Sonic 1. I recognized that immediately and it made me happy to see. And there's a lot of that all throughout the game.

[@felipe_drawmania1604]

That's valid,but what *you* want may not be the same thing that *he* wants. You may like It,but one of the most common criticism of Sonic Mania is the reuse of levels that,even If executed differently,are just building off themes and concepts that we've seen many times before,and not everyone is gonna jive with that no matter how good and creative It is.

[@teaguevox8160]

@@felipe_drawmania1604 Worked that out for myself, thanks.

[@keenobrown919]

Especially due to essentially coinciding with Forces, Mania added even more fuel for people to say "modern Sonic was never good" so I have mixed feelings on it. I love the game itself but it somehow made Sonic discourse even worse

[@lpfan4491]

That's on Forces. Stuff would have gone south even if Mania would have never existed, while everything would have been fine even with Mania, if Forces was just good. And people who hate modern sonic or 3d Sonic for the sake of it would have gone on anyhow. There is no point in trying to appeal to people who are going to say it's crap regardless. Like how I heared someone say Boost is the worst because it's akin to a temple runner-type mobile game, even tho they are nothing alike. What is one going to say in responce to that when it's complete bs but they believe it as much as the sun being bright?

[@thealandude9146]

i remember pre-ordering this game immediately and that is the only time i pre-order a game

[@The94Venom]

I still like how people were tired of fighting the Death Egg Robot by 2017, so the devs' response was to make the entire final level a giant Death Egg Robot and have the actual boss be its heart controlled by Eggman.

[@justice8718]

And then it the death egg robot fights later on completely eclipsed mania’s final bosses.

[@wesleybcrowen]

This game is tied together with Sonic 3&K and Adventure 1 as my absolute favorite games in the series. I don't care if it's a shameless nostalgia trip, I WANT MORE.

[@StickySirFace]

I really like the darker blue!

[@IOSAShorts]

J's Reviews, You're the best! I subscribed because I love your content!

[@ryantrusty8933]

the drop dash was actually going to be in 3K but was scrapped for the instashield

[@kenw.1520]

I don't blame Sonic Mania for playing it safe with using some older aspects and not letting Christian Whitehead & company go wild. Sonic was in a really bad spot, so he just needed a good home run. I don't love that Sonic Mania re-uses some old stages over and over (even if they do so well), but that's my ONLY complaint with Sonic Mania. And as I don't expect to ever see a "Perfect" Video Game, the pros of Sonic Mania 110% outweigh that one con. It's okay that the game wasn't what you wanted from a 2D Sonic; I'm just glad the game did well. And even if 3D Sonic never gets its act together, 2D Sonic has a path forward.

[@RubyofBlue]

I am so there with you when it comes to the True Blue Sonic xD

[@jaysaiyajoestar1220]

the fact that Mania has amount of Original Zones just as much as Sonic 4 is the only but also the biggest flaw about Mania. exactly the reason why the game needs a sequel to solve that nitpick

[@braven_iss]

Have to say I actually prefer Sonic Mania's blue for Sonic. I don't like him being as super deep blue as he was in the classic artwork. Sonic Mania has this "alternate" version of the box art Sonic where he's not quite so dusty blue and is more of an electric blue. It's the perfect shade for him in my opinion. Also worth mentioning is that Encore Mode does have small changes to the zones from Mania Mode, they're just not huge. Personally, Sonic Mania Plus means more to me than any other game or piece of media, only one other piece of media ties it for me. It was the most excited I've ever been for a video game and the timing it came out was perfect for me. I met a lot of friends and made a lot of memories thanks to this game. In my honest opinion, I think the only thing 3&K does better than Sonic Mania is story-telling, but I blame that on SEGA because they wanted to tie-in the game with Sonic Forces, which is sad, but it was a cool concept. So for me at least, Sonic Mania is the best Sonic game, uncontested. That being said, I can totally see why it isn't everyone's cup of tea. It's definitely got its downsides, depending on what you want in a new Sonic game.

[@SaddieMoon]

I love how encore mode retcons Forces, while at the same time, Mania Adventures continues Forces.

[@GuyInUrSnackCabinet]

Encore doesn't retcon Forces. At the start sonic comes from the portal.

[@MegaGlassguy]

The game manual of Plus specifically states that Encore Mode takes place after Forces.

[@SaddieMoon]

@@MegaGlassguy I guess that’s just evidence that the KZbin shorts aren’t cannon. Not like that matters. But that still doesn’t explain the Phantom Ruby being there. It’s like they made it smoothly transition from Mania mode so it would feel like a full experience. Without Forces. But that still makes the Phantom Ruby coming out of the portal still make no sense and Mania Adventures make more sense to come after Forces. I think it was originally intended to be what took place after Mania, at least in the Modern Timeline and Mania Adventures takes place after Forces for the Classic Timeline. But someone, probably SEGA, changed it last minute. Probably so fans wouldn’t expect to see Mighty and Ray in the modern games or something. Hell, they can easily retcon it to be Forces to MA and Mania to Encore since it doesn’t ruin the timeline. Edit: You might ask why no one recalls the Phantom Ruby and why no Phantom Ruby appears out of the portal “Santiago” comes out of before attacking Chaos. But to be honest, I’m not sure if anyone noticed the later anyways, but who knows. Now I’m thinking the Phantom Ruby the Avatar used was from Mania, and it appeared from Infinite’s Phantom Ruby energy while fighting Silver, cause the Ruby was still in the portal. And for the former, I got nothing. Aside from the writing of the 2010s’ games, especially Forces, aren’t the most consistent thing in the world. I sometimes feel like we just don’t have Forces itself be cannon, but events similar to Forces cannon. That’s just how I feel about the game’s story.

[@GuyInUrSnackCabinet]

@@SaddieMoon I think this is how it happened: the phantom ruby classic has is from his world (even though he didn't tell the resistance that,otherwise the game would be over halfway),and at the end of forces the ruby brings him back to his world (even though it has literally no reason to) and thats why we see the ruby and classic in encore.

[@MegaGlassguy]

@@SaddieMoon I'll be honest chief, I'm not even trying to understand anything involving the Phantom Macguffin. It's by far the worst plot device this series has had since ever due to how inconsistent it is and really boils down to "does whatever the devs want it to".

[@nathanarrington9651]

I always got the impression Eggman was using Lava Reef as a geothermal power to power Metallic Madness and Titanic Monarch.

[@sonic5993]

This game reminded me that Sonic could actually be a great franchise.

[@blues4509]

I was never as crazy about Sonic Mania as much of the fanbase either. It's always a tough conversation too because you always have to acknowledge that it is a good game despite constantly stating how "it's pretty fun" in response to people absolutely raving about it and watching the flabbergasted faces appear one after another. For one classic Sonic has never been my favorite iteration of the gameplay formula for the series so, for me, it being a loving homage to them is nice but just not exactly that exciting for me (wildly enough I actually have fonder memories of the advance games). Then there's the problem plaguing the series even to this day given what we have seen of the cyberspace levels in Frontiers. The borderline compulsive need to pander to the classics by reusing levels from the original trilogy, this making Mania a more dull experience than it should have been for me since I quite liked the new levels. I hesitate to say that Mania is the best sonic game or even the best classic game (would give it to 3&K myself), since I don't think that discussion is just about technical polish, if it were Lost World would be above the Adventure games for example which I just can't get behind. Mania is fun and I do enjoy the classic games quite a bit despite them not being my favorite style. This is coming from a fan that has played her first sonic game, SA1 on the Dreamcast back in the early 2000s and steadily followed the series from there playing almost every title (still haven't played the Boom games and don't really plan to). I have the most nostalgia for the Adventure style games. I went back to play the classic games thanks to the wonderful Mega and Gems Collections that I still own to this day. I think these games are the most replayable and I have a great love and appreciation for them. Then my favorite Sonic game to this day Sonic Unleashed finally came out and it birthed my favorite style of the franchise, the boost formula, even if the good games were rather short-lived. I have the most fondness for the boost games up until generations. Unleashed in particular I feel captures everything I love about Sonic near perfectly, it would be my choice for what I want out of a Sonic game personally (would just add Sonic's friends back in to be playable with their own style, like Knuckles should have been in the Werehog"s place somehow) it has the charming characterization, my preferred gameplay style executed to perfection and loads of intrinsic replayability that encourages mastery in a way that appeals to me. All this to say that as a lifetime Sonic fan what appeals to me has little to do with nostalgia or believing the 2D games were the best the franchise has ever been. Which is why for me Mania is a great game but not the greatest game in the franchise. I can come back to it and thoroughly enjoy my time with it but it doesn't really stand out to me as much as it does for everyone else. I certainly prefer it over the likes of the very first title Sonic 1, Chaos (majority of the handheld classic titles honestly) and CD. However Sonic 2 and 3&K I hold above it in regards to that specialty due to the stellar levels in those games and environmental storytelling (especially in the third title). I think going forward the Sonic games have to finally stop going backwards and that goes for the classic games too. The level of love and polish that went into Mania leads me to believe that the Whitehead team can certainly surpass the classic trilogy without debate if they're simply given the ability to flex their own level design ideas going forward, add in some of that sweet subtle storytelling to boot. Anyway to anyone that read this far, thank you, I always have a blast talking about Sonic so I tend to get carried away.

[@blues4509]

@@thefastcommenter7774 I am absolutely not mad at that. For me it's either 2 or 3&K. I just prefer the latter a lot more due to the zone variety but I understand it is a bit unfair

[@thefastcommenter7774]

Looking back on that comment, that was a lame attempt at a joke. I'll delete it

[@blues4509]

@@thefastcommenter7774 oh don't worry about it, I don't mind a joke here and there

[@stormcutter59]

It's still really embarrassing how a team of fans was able to make a better game than Sonic Team themselves. Imagine how easily fans would excuse Mania for being bad because "Well, Izuka wouldn't let them create an original game." Despite being held back and forced to reuse levels once again, they still made a solid experience. This is the quality every game should be, bare minimum.

[@Hyp3rSonic]

@@stormcutter59 based

[@Sirius-Nightstream]

i do NOT recall mania being available midnight of launch. I remember it being midday of launch. 12PM instead of 12AM. I remember trying to download it at midnight but it wasn't available yet

[@DekuScrub_]

I'm definitely more of a Boost kinda guy when it comes to Sonic, but Mania is without a doubt my favourite 2D Sonic game and is undeniably one of the best in the series. This game has so much charm to it and you can really see how much the people behind it care about Sonic with all the callbacks and references like Generations did.

[@L47Le]

Sonic mania aged well

[@rudeboyspodcast]

Here's to Penny's Big Breakaway getting all the success the Mania team deserves!

[@Flubon11]

Something you forgot is that you can access D.A garden, replay blue spheres stages and play mean bean machine in Mania Plus. They also added sound test and debug mode, which is cool

[@greyrifterrellik5837]

Fun fact, Knuckles being closer to pink in mania is actually *EXTREMELY* faithful to the classic games. In fact, I'm pretty sure it's almost the exact shade he had in his debut.

[@Galatea_ZX]

i’ll never forget pre-ordering this game back in 2017. still an amazing game to this day and i do not have an issue owning many copies of this game on other platforms. can’t believe it’s been 5 years since this came out

[@TheRealDustinNunn]

Sonic Mania/Sonic Mania Plus saved the Classic Sonic series. Plus, Sonic Mania/Sonic Mania Plus is the true Sonic 4.

[@spongeyonxbox]

0:42 that moment when sleep

[@shamaboy11]

As I replay Sonic Mania over the years, it went slowly away from my top 5 Sonic games. The game is still pretty great and only good thing from mid 2010s with Sonic but my biggest problem with Mania is just that it doesn’t innovate Sonic series in terms of 2D like how Advance & Rush games did. I sometimes feel like I’m going through the motion. I also just feel Sonic Generations did better job at giving these older stages new life and make then feel new. I’m probably in the minority for that. Sonic Mania also just has no memorable set piece moments like Sonic 3 & Knuckles and even Advance or Rush games. Overall, I still love Sonic Mania but definitely far from my favorite Sonic game as time goes on.

[@thefastcommenter7774]

Mania, Colours, Unleashed, Advance games etc are all overrated

[@justice8718]

Sonic Generations felt like it wanted to do something new with the reused stages and introduced new and grander elements into them. Mania tried to be generations 2, but had even less of a story and removed all of the coolest parts of classic Sonic. The perspective of getting new music and aesthetics in Forces and Frontiers for these zones really hampered with me in mania.

[@xscythe67]

Fun Fact: Mania didn't invent the drop dash, it actually existed in Lost World. Mania only fine tuned it and gave it the name.🤓

[@lpfan4491]

It existed since the Sonic 3 beta. Interesstingly, the mania team seemingly had no clue that this was the case, because it was discovered after Mania released.

[@RaphielShiraha64]

@@lpfan4491 Is not 100% confirmed they knew it or not, when they asked it on twitter all they did was say no BUT with a alien emoji, perhaps they knew about it but can't mention it on public because of sega, i don't think we will get a fully concrete answer to that.

[@lpfan4491]

@@RaphielShiraha64 True, but I honestly wouldn't be surprised if Sega never shared anything about Sonic 3's development to them(They never approved the Sonic 3 remake until origins, afterall) and it's unlikely they would have known about it from the outside, considering the mentioned timing.