Was This A Plot Hole? - The Dragon Prince

[@fang609]

I will agree that judging from what evidence the dragon queen and the elves had the only logical assumption would be that the guard left and the egg shattered, although I do wander if the members of the guard that abandoned there post's where hunted down to be punished for doing what they did all but Rhaylas parents who could not be found, but we know what really happened to them. Speaking of which in one of the end credit sketches we see 4 of Viren's coin's, we know who 3 of those coins are but who could be trapped in the 4rth one?

[@TheoryPop]

They may know how to hide and go underground, but even if they were caught, once they were asked where the others were, they may assume Rayla’s parents “saw sense” and ran before Viren got there. After they left, the Dragonguard would be just as clueless as everyone else as to what actually happened. As for the 4th coin, that’s a really good question!

[@marktunes]

@@TheoryPop Next episode: Who is in the 4th coin?

[@fang609]

@@TheoryPop Viren did say to Rayla that he has a collection of MoonShadow elves when he trapped her in ice so a logical conclusion is that it could be another MoonShadow elf but from what we have seen Viren has only had 2 incounters with those elves, first Raylas parents and the assassins sent to kill Harrow and Ezran of which only Rayla survived as all the other flowers where at the pond's bottom (with Runans In-between). So another option could be the person he first used that spell on.

[@TheoryPop]

That’s true, it could be the person he practiced the spell on the first time he used it. He’s clearly familiar with the spell when he approached Rayla’s parents, so that probably wasn’t the first time he’d used it.

[@marktunes]

@@TheoryPop Agreed. But will they recover the coins and restore the imprisoned victims? Will we learn the identity of the 4th coin then?

[@tired9510]

I get the feeling that the other six guards spun the story on Rayla's parents and made it seem like THEY were the traitors. "Oh Viren incapacitated us and destroyed the egg and we barely got out of there blah blah blah those two ran off the second things got hairy blah blah blah". I really doubt the other six would have been able to successfully go into hiding after they ran away due to their status as dragon guards, therefore they lied to save their own skins.

[@memecat9830]

Yea

[@rainstriderstreamflower5645]

While the other guards (Not counting the ones KIA) may've purported the notion that Tiandrin and Lain fled along them, I don't think they convinced everyone that they themselves, should be vindicated as everyone blamed all the surviving guards for their cowardice not just Rayla's folks. Edit (9/30/23): Added new info regarding this subject.

[@rainstriderstreamflower5645]

Actually the writers confirmed that Hendyr and co. went into hiding and haven't been located.

[@ttuanmu]

Elves have this pattern accusing those who disappeared "betrayed and ran away," lol!

[@ttuanmu]

Rayla got the same treatment.

[@TheoryPop]

It does appear to be a recurring theme with them!

[@keerya4179]

Imagine you're a teenager who go hunting and get lost in the woods but when you find your way back home they made you a ghost for running away from your work instead of sending a rescue party.

[@kasiakowalczyk5113]

It seems to me that the elves have no idea how dark mages developed this "art" Or Viren killed / imprisoned them in another universe out there. Or he forced them to transport the Mirror and eggs to Katolis and only then used them for black magic.

[@kasiakowalczyk5113]

@hunter christensen No no . When Runaan flower was 'healthy' they thought he was returning with Rayla to Silvergrove. However, when a few days later he was trapped in a coin, everything collapsed. They wouldn't chase her if everything went according to plan. Probably because of what Turni was told about her biological parents, she led her to the decision that he would take on the career of the killer. She wanted to show that she is not the daughter of "traitors". Finito

[@UberPyro64]

It's likely that most spells are just not known by a large number of people. So those investigating might not have known Historia Viventem was even a thing. For all we know, Lujaane and Callum are the only living people that know the spell exists. Rayla did say what Callum did was impossible before he elaborated.

[@TheoryPop]

I agree. Not all elves are mages, and not all mages know or can perform every spell linked to their Arcanum. Ibis confirms this, telling Callum that only a small number of Sky mages can use the "mage wings" spell. I suspect there are more moon mages than Lujanne that would be capable of performing the spell, but it won't be a high number.

[@kasiakowalczyk5113]

I'm afraid that at present Lucjane was the only person who knew this spell. But she couldn't leave Moon nexus (the Moon Shadow Elves had a mix there before the split). And Magic gems are rare gems like primal stone which Callum stole from Claudia and later crashed for Zym

[@dracovoid2001]

I think viren put a spell the to prevent them from using it was by the time Calum was there

[@sheikranl3949]

@@TheoryPop Furthermore, about the faces showing when Callum used it: Callum was using it to show a specific event, while Lujanne used the spell to show a ritual, done for many years. Or maybe she wanted to protect the identities of these elves.

[@timpyrules]

@@TheoryPop Runaan still possesed some knowledge of spells when he disguised the elven camp in s1e1 when Soren tracked it down. He could only do it by crushing the moon opel so its reasonable to assume Runaan cannot do moonmagic like Lujanne can. However it does show non-mage elves knowing the spells and the according signs. So this suggest that although there may not be many mages all elves have an understanding of their arcanum and its spells. Especially older more experienced elves

[@VictorScrooge]

@TheoryPop It could also very well be, that "Historia Viventem" isn't a well-known spell. I have to rewatch the little arc, but I think that the Moon Nexus wasn't well remembered among the Elves. Rayla was surprised to find Lujanne in the Cursed Caldera. Maybe this spell isn't thought to be used for investigating but more for the more priest-like Elvenmages for showing their heritage.

[@TheoryPop]

You could be right. It seems like a spell that can replay moments from history would be pretty advanced, the number of mages that are capable of using it could be limited. And it does seem like the location of the Moon Nexus isn’t common knowledge amongst the elves, perhaps it’s been kept secret from everyone over the past 1000 years.

[@VictorScrooge]

​@@TheoryPop maybe they have just "forgotten" the Nexus. One of the hardest things in writing is to give the recipient of the work the feeling that magic isn't always the answer to everything. Magic itself feels very much alive in this world, which means it has some sort of personality. Moon magic seems to be more trickster-ish in Nature, more elusive. Illusions, invisibility, etc. It could also be the case, that this spell isn't deemed extremely reliable.

[@chaotea2042]

I also thought this, or that because they're so exposed to magic on a daily basis, the thought of doing this never even occured. Its worth remembering that it was assumed that Rayla had fled rather than anyone trying to confirm. Elves seem to assume the worst by nature. In addition, dragons were shown to be very dismissive of humans, and likely assumed that no human could possibly stand against them if any dragon guard still remained.

[@VictorScrooge]

@@chaotea2042 good points.

[@Brenediction]

The whole situation relies on everyone being idiots and not doing any investigation. Either that or elves are really just close-minded. The fact that the King of all of Xadia doesn't have an army protecting what is essentially his castle is proof of that. Only eight elves of dubious loyalty. This could have all been solved if humanity had attacked with an army instead of just Harrow and Viren. The bigger plot hole is how Viren managed to carry both the egg and the mirror back down the mountain and returned with them to Katolis without a wagon. And yes I'm still going on about that lol.

[@TheoryPop]

I’d say heartbroken and emotionally affect rather than “idiots.” But yeah, it’s tough to really justify. I think this is a problem inherent to a story where magic is such a big part: why can’t everything be solved with it? Especially when we’ve seen such a useful spell that could literally replay the entire thing for you? How do you avoid hand waving every problem with a spell? I also wondered just how the heck Viren got that egg and the mirror down the mountain and back to Xadia without anyone noticing!

[@TheoryPop]

I’d say heartbroken and emotionally affect rather than “idiots.” But yeah, it’s tough to really justify. I think this is a problem inherent to a story where magic is such a big part: why can’t everything be solved with it? Especially when we’ve seen such a useful spell that could literally replay the entire thing for you? How do you avoid hand waving every problem with a spell? I also wondered just how the heck Viren got that egg and the mirror down the mountain and back to Xadia without anyone noticing!

[@Brenediction]

@@TheoryPop The magic is a huge issue. When the series first started I thought it was a "hard" magic system but from what we've seen in the third season the magic system seems to be "soft" with anything being possible like growing frickin wings. With a soft magic system, it becomes hard to justify stupid decisions when the magic is capable of so much.

[@Brenediction]

@@TheoryPop Also on the Dragon prince wiki it labels the spells Claudia used when wielding the corrupted Sun Staff as Star Magic rather then dark magic. Could you do a video on this? Because it seems like Star magic is more nefarious then we have been led to believe. Either that or it was some strange magic fusion, combing the heat of sun magic with the star magic. The words Claudia used to cast the spells were Latin, not backwards.

[@gracekim1998]

Brenediction don’t you mean unanswered question

[@MikeTheFlash]

I can 100% agree with this Explanation. I was wondering why they didn't check what really happened but this clears that up nicely. Thank you

[@TheoryPop]

Hi Mike! Thanks for watching, I'm glad you enjoyed the video! When I looked back at the season, I wondered why the conclusion had been drawn when Callum was (fairly easily using the moon opal) able to prove the opposite was true. And this was the best conclusion I could come to that tries to fit in the story of the show!

[@xilenoy6682]

I agree with this too, but i don't think they are alive, if they were wouldn't they have showed their flowers together with Runnans?

[@pikameer8325]

@@xilenoy6682 I don't think the Dragonguard got flowers. They specifically state in the show that Ethari enchanted flowers and gave them to *assassins* about to go off on a dangerous mission.

[@qwefg3]

Dragons kind of ignore a lot of details. Just look at "burn face" as he went out to the human city. Talked with the leader finding out there is someone supplying dark magic lessons since humans did not know not to figure it out on there own... Then proceeds to burn the city after promising to talk and not kill the dark mage it he came to talk. He ignored the obvious detail that even if he killed every human... The person using and teaching other people dark magic is still running about somehow. Next we have the dragon that kept terrifying humans... Get angered that one of them attacked after being terrified for days. As burning the town to ash because someone missed hitting him... Not burning the attacker, but the place he was terrifying because someone might have accidentally tried shooting him. Dragons have egos and most elves do not seem to question the judgement of dragons. So you get a Dragon proclaiming all guards left then nobody is going to question of deny that verdict.

[@TheoryPop]

Sol Regem has a fiery temper, quite fitting for the arch dragon of the sun! But yes, the magical races do seem quick to tar all humans with the same brush. Dragons seem to be top of the hierarchy for Xadia, so I imagine what they decree, goes.

[@itsme7336]

Please tell me Zym won't become like that

[@TheoryPop]

I think Zym and Ezran's bond will be a catalyst for changing this behaviour. It won't be an instant fix, but those present at the battle of the Stormspire will see that not all humans are dark magic wielding "villains" like Viren.

[@GearWukong]

Well Claudia was there and dragons can smell dark magic or something and they attacked first... soooo pretty sure he was just looking for an excuse and that was it.

[@ALookIntoTheEulenspiegel]

Let's not forget Thunder, who, despite being aware of humans being thinking, sentient beings, decided to hunt down a group that was already fleeing from him, but then offered peaceful retreat when it was *his* family involved. No unicorn horn wasted on that guy.

[@racekitty]

The elves may have ignored the option to use magic to see what happened because they wanted to invade the human kingdoms based on the the thoughts of humans by Khessa(the sunfire elf queen) it's likely a common sentiment among elves and the death of the king and heir of the dragons is more than enough for the declaration of war.

[@kasiakowalczyk5113]

It True

[@sakurap95]

At first when I heard about rayla’s parents abandoning the egg, I figured something wasn’t right. I kind of rolled my eyes because I knew the cliche was coming. “A disgraced warrior is revealed to have died bravely instead of betraying their cause like everyone thought.” But what truly makes this so tragic is that it logically makes sense why everyone else would assume they left. And yet Rayla’s parents were basically tortured until there was nothing left of them! How awful!

[@rainstriderstreamflower5645]

I had my own doubts as well. But I still thought that Rayla's parents ran. However I wasn't sure if they were really cowards. I thought that maybe Tiadrin and Lain didn't have time to grab the egg for fled into a blind panic without thinking. And I didn't know that the other 6 were still alive. When Rayla said that "They ran" I thought she was only referring to her parents while the other guard died trying to defend the egg.

[@rainstriderstreamflower5645]

I had the same idea.

[@Narutonarutonaruto85]

It might also be possible they didn't have a moon mage on hand to preform the ritual. It's possible without a moonshadow elf, one with some understanding of their magic, they wouldn't even know the spell exists.

[@TheoryPop]

I think this is likely. From the sounds of it, the only ones permanently stationed at the spire were the Dragonguard. Ibis visits, but isn’t there all the time. It would stand to reason there’s no moon mage assigned to the Stormspire.

[@Narutonarutonaruto85]

@@TheoryPop I'm not sure how often Ibis visits there. Sounds like he only showed up because he heard the dragon queen needed help and he might be able to offer aid. Being able to fly does make travel easier.

[@PeKaNo]

It's really fun because I noticed a plot hole in that part of the scenario too, but not for the same reason. The moonshadow elves, and Rayla, all thought that her parents had ran away from the egg, leaving it unprotected. But I presume her parents had a flower on the pool, staying at the surface as long as they were alive. Then, since Runan's flower hald-sank when he was turned into a coin, why did the moonshadow elves believed that Rayla's parents had run away? Didn't their flowers half-sank too?

[@TheoryPop]

I think the flower ritual was specifically used for assassins that were sent out on missions, but Rayla’s parents weren’t assassins. I don’t think they’d have had the flowers as Runaan did.

[@tetramera]

Yes, it was specifically stated the flowers were just for assassins. The dragon guard probably had none at all.

[@rainstriderstreamflower5645]

@@TheoryPop You're actually right about that. I watched S4 yesterday and discovered that Rayla's parents were trapped in 🪙!

[@wind64a39]

The spell has only been used in the presence of a strong, external, source of Moon energy. It may be that the rarity of Moon Opals means that it just isn't a readily available spell.

[@nobody_erica]

Hm..I still wonder why the other elves of Rayla’s home didn’t let her explain that she didn’t abandon Runaan and the other assassins they were convinced/jumped to the conclusions and didn’t let Rayla explain that she was delivering the dragon prince back to dragon queen, well except for Ethari who broke the spell to see her I don’t know I just think it’s a bit unfair that they ghosted her without knowing the truth

[@gracekim1998]

They LOVE to jump to conclusions

[@nobody_erica]

@@gracekim1998 True

[@danascroggins9271]

These elves sure like jumping to conclusions. First the flower in the moonelf fountain and now this

[@TheoryPop]

They like jumping to conclusions almost as much as Rayla likes jumping off mountains

[@queenyokoofkei3257]

I’d like to see what happened with Veran’s wife. I’m getting kind of a “Shao Tucker” vib there (Full-metal Alchemist fans will get that reference)

[@aprilvaiarella435]

Yeah, I kind of got that vibe also. If I was a betting person, I'd say she got used for parts or is trapped in a coin. It's nice to know that I'm not the only one questioning the story of her just leaving them. I question any story told by Viren, especially ones that make him look like a tragic character, since we know he kills and lies to manipulate others. Seeing as Sarai's death is also told to us by Viren, makes me wonder about that as well.

[@TheoryPop]

Ooooh yeah, that would be a really interesting scene to see! Hopefully she's not some creature-human hybrid or something. I don't know if I can go through that again.

[@gracekim1998]

QueenYoko OfKei you know we were told she LEFT right?

[@gracekim1998]

April Vaiarella 😅uh oh

[@AlexKnauth]

We were told she left, but Claudia also said she and Soren were given a choice of who to go with. Soren chose dad because of course he’s that type, and Claudia chose to be with her brother. Because of that choice, I think their mother is fine, probably happy to be away from Viren, but sad to be away from her kids. Viren was probably at least a little abusive or manipulative with her, in the ways we saw he was with gaslighting Soren and manipulating Claudia. I could imagine it being as bad as Ozai to Ursa as well. But nothing on Shou Tucker’s level!

[@thedarkknight727]

Bro, when Runaan, Tiathrin, and Lain finally get out of the coins, only to find out that not only Humans and Elves are coexisting, but Rayla it's expecting a child from a "HUMAN" they're gonna freak the F out, probably like that viral video of Steven's cancelled WOW acount. 😅

[@Kronholio]

What I find more irksome is: Why did the dragon guard flee at all? Sure, they might have witnessed almighty Avizandum getting turned to stone which would have been absolutely terrifying. But IIRC according to Virens retelling, there were only King Harrow and Viren on that particular revenge mission. Dark Magic or not, according to what we saw, the odds were 4:1 in favour for the Dragon Guard, who may have failed protecting their king but still had the duty of defending the unborn Prince - and 6 of 8 fled?? That would be some really really abysmal morale for trained elite protectors...I would like a bit more explanation of that event and why exactly the DG routed. As it is now, it paints the not-moonshadow elves, really any but "hero elves", in an implausibly bad light.

[@TheoryPop]

I think seeing the archdragon of the sky, one of the most powerful creatures in Xadia, turned to stone by a “mere human” would be pretty darn terrifying. The guard have no idea what else the humans are capable of. Who would win in a fight: 8 Dragonguard, or one archdragon of the sky? I can understand why they fled, but it doesn’t mean I agree with them. They should have stayed to protect the egg, as they were sworn to do. And as it turns out, 2 Dragonguard were very nearly enough to defeat Viren, he’d have been completely outmatches if the others had remained.

[@Kronholio]

@@TheoryPop As I said, I completely agree with the morale breaking impact of Avizandums death, still I find it a bit implausible, or at least an extremely shameful display, that the elite of the elite dragon honor guard fled and abandoned their duty under those odds. My main gripe is the "Elite" aspect there, I think. For any civilian elf or normal soldier, abandoning post under those circumstances would have been completely plausible with me. However, one possible explanation could be, that the Archdragon of the Sky and his abode may have been considered completely beyond assault by anyone for so long that for most elves, the onetime elite post of Dragon Guard has in reality been reduced to more of a ceremonial position of honour. This could have led to more pampered highborn sons and daughters in it for the prestige, rather than loyal, dependable and experienced fighters serving in the guard. Which would also explain the completely disgraceful behaviour of the last sky elf: "Take the egg with me and make me a target? You kidding? I'm out!".

[@ginnyledwell8923]

@@Kronholio Maybe they weren't all that "elite". It could be that, because nobody ever thought humans could get past a dragon, the elven guard (or whatever they're called; I forget) was actually more of a formality then anything. Like, maybe it was just a tradition for noble elven families to send members to "protect" the dragon egg as a way of showing fealty to the dragon king, and they weren't actually chosen for their fighting skills. Rayla's parents, who we know were proficient warriors, could have been the exception to the rule. That's why they stayed when everyone else ran away.

[@tomnorton4277]

@@ginnyledwell8923 Rayla's parents may not have even been an exception when they were chosen. However, unlike the others, they actually took their duty seriously so they bothered to put in the work needed to become skilled fighters, presumably while the others slacked off.

[@rainstriderstreamflower5645]

Because Viren was a powerful mage. Also he and Harrow managed to best Avizandum who is far more powerful than all 8 dragonguard. Besides Tiandrin and Lain outnumbered Viren 2:1 and Viren still managed to best them.

[@ethenallen1388]

A theme that keeps coming up in The Dragon Prince is questioning assumptions. Ever Rayla didn't question the assumption that her parents deserted their post with the other guards, and she was their daughter.

[@rainstriderstreamflower5645]

The reason why Rayla never questioned the assumption that her parents were cowards is better explained in the Graphic Novel Bloodmoon Huntress.

[@nevaeh9066]

Because Tiadrin and Lain (Rayla's Parents) are the only ones who survived out of all the dragonguard they are still alive

[@c_beck336]

@theorypop, I would love to see your thoughts on Rayla being ghosted by her community. I've been thinking about it over and over, and it's either one giant plot hole, the community are dicks or it's a lot darker than that. I first thought about how Runaan told Rayla to sit on the rock and go home if they didn't return. But if she actually did that, she would've still been ghosted. So either he didn't think it through, or the rest of the community are dicks; which means Runaan is the only one who truly cares for Rayla. Then, I went down the rabbit hole even further. What if Rayla had been captured just as Runaan had. Someone pointed out that his flower would have still floated for a few days then sank. Meaning that something was clearly going on. So when his flower sunk (just a little) why didn't they assume she was either captured, returning home, or still trying to kill the prince? Why assume she abandoned them? Because they thought her parents did? If they had distrust, then why send her on such an important mission? (This is why I put this comment on this video, the parents). Then there is the mindset that Moonshadow elves are see themselves as dead already. Did they expect her to die with the rest of them? If so, why would Runaan send her home? I’m actually really worried that was a giant plot hole, otherwise, her community are cold hearted elven dicks. I could understand Ethari first going with the spell out of grief, but why put it back on after seeing that she was protecting the Dragon Prince? Wow, this went on longer than I thought. This is why I need your wisdom!!!

[@kasiakowalczyk5113]

Triva From the territory of the Elves, Moonshadow counting the deserts is less a day distance than from Lux Aurea

[@kasiakowalczyk5113]

Runaan told her to go home for her and Ethari, who would probably get depressed if both of them were killed in this castle. Because now they were going on a suicide mission. Confirmed twice p. 2 and p. 3 e. Ghost. Nobody survived the attack except the future guard of the Queen and the dragon prince.

[@kasiakowalczyk5113]

Go Home Means Come back to Silvergrove Come back to Xadia Go and survive

[@Scalesthelizardwizard]

I think the spell is different because there are fewer people and the event is is more resent pulse the moon opal may have some property that made the spell stronger and media speaking they had a bigger budget

[@TheoryPop]

I think that combination of factors could definitely affect the spell’s end result

[@altithoraxperotorum5133]

Technical janai should be the next queen of lux aurea unless kheesa had some (secret) kids we don't know about yet. I think for another aaravos theory that queen aditi was one of those who captured him in his mirror and one of his close friends and that he knew some secrets about them

[@gracekim1998]

@@parchilla8035 nah

[@SherbertLand]

To be honest I didnt notice these thing until I saw this video while scrolling around youtube, and it really got me thinking until I finally decided to watch it, and now it makes sooooo much sense

[@TheoryPop]

I think a lot of fans are happy with how it was presented in the show, and are content to let the writers answer and expand on it in future episodes. But I wanted to look a little closer at it, and this is the conclusion I came to! Thank you for watching !

[@Cr1msonFoxx]

I think that we need to remember that as soon as the queen got back, she fell into a deep sleep while mourning. Ivan was the only elf allowed in her quarters to check up on her and make sure she was still alive, presumably because they trusted Ivan and had a past with them both being linked to the sky and all. I don’t think Ivan would trust any moon mages to come into the storm spire after what had happened, as well as most moon mages powerful enough to preform the spell probably had their own places to protect. Don’t forget that the killing of King Harrow was only a week after Avazandum was killed, and it took our heroes a week to get to the storm spire. In order for news to have spread, someone from the spire would have to tell someone else, who would then have to travel across Xadia to find a moon mage close enough to the queen to not bother her while she slept.

[@rainstriderstreamflower5645]

Umm King Harrow was killed in the month of May. Avizandum died on December 21 of the previous year.

[@John-uw2je]

Perhaps the queen was distraught, and did not wish to see the moonshadow elves because of their failure. Also, dragons seem to be very arrogant, straight up saying humans are inferior. Elves revere dragons, so they probably follow them. Also, we may yet find that elves are not as noble as they seem, after all that one sky elf abandoned his post, and Nyx tried to get personal gain by kidnapping. Aravos may actually have a good reason for getting back at the elves.

[@vash3055]

Also keep in mind that the storm spire is the sky nexus, and that aside from Rayla' parents no one in the area has access to Moon magic, with out something like a moon opal. This fact should have lengthened any investigation, thus allowing for assumption to be made.

[@TheoryPop]

This is true. Not all elves are mages, but I think there was the option to send for one to perform the spell. They could have brought a moon opal with them, although it's implied by Ethari that they are fairly rare.

[@kasiakowalczyk5113]

It True and I think that moon opal is very hard to come by.

[@MM-me9vb]

I feel like now with s4. Zubeia doesnt allow anyone who isnt permitted. Dragon Guard, Dragons, and anyone they permitted is likely not allowed due to the sealed artifacts. Moonshadow elves can cast an illusion to even sneak down to this vault. By the by. Pyrrah doesnt grant safe passage when they initially climb the storm spire.

[@mathiasvanderbeken6656]

When they got too the moon elves villages, we saw the flowers that indicates de fate of those performing missions outside. I wonder if her parents had one. But probably not, otherwise they would think that they died and the conclusion with the time of death would likely have been that they fought and died.

[@TheoryPop]

I think the flowers are specifically for assassins when they are sent on missions. As Rayla’s parents weren’t on an assassination mission, I don’t think they’d have had flowers.

[@griffinbryant5016]

It makes sense to me that no one used historia viventum bc it's really not like the elves have a full csi team or robust detective agency as far as we know. What bugs me is that apparently moonshadow elves just assume any elf that went mia is a traitor and coward? I mean, what if rayla had been captured and that's why her flower displayed her as still alive?

[@fini5294]

The other elf who was leaving them was a total asshole about not taking the dragon egg to safety. I wouldn’t put it past him to trash talk them and letting them take all the blame.

[@darrenhardy4817]

Another reason Callum spell was more detailed could be because he's a artist so the spell was able to pull out more detail of the unseen.

[@TheoryPop]

I love this idea! The spell’s end result could be influenced by the caster’s skill set, that’d be a really interesting effect to see on magic!

[@darrenhardy4817]

@@TheoryPop I seen similarly things in other shows manly with weapons changing the best suit and would love to see Callum come up with a new unique spell in the next series or after finding the coins going on the telly to find out how to remove people from them.

[@aprilvaiarella435]

The elves may all naturally be connected to magic, but that doesn't mean all elves can perform every spell for their arcanum. Most of them seem to only know a few things that are useful to their own specific jobs. Runaan even had to crush the moon opel to perform a spell way back in season one and Rayla has only ever just turned herself invisible. She even says she doesn't even know that many Draconic words which are needed for spellcasting. Callum isn't a reliable source to judge the ease of certain spells, since he seems to be a prodigy capable of learning difficult magic without help after seeing it once. (Ibis told him it was rare for Skywing mages to manifest mage wings, yet Callum managed it pretty quickly. He also seems to be able to make them them stronger than the average mage.) The point I'm going for is that maybe they didn't do Historius because only Lujanne is known to be capable of the spell and she is stuck in Katolis? Or it's just not something the average elf or dragon would even think to use because they aren't moon mages? Though mostly I think it's because elves are arrogant, judgmental jerks who jump to conclusions without evidence. I mean, one guy uses dark magic and every human must now be exiled, even the ones that didn't know the guy existed and have never used magic before. Writing someone off as bad so they can exile them seems to be a thing elves like doing. For all they knew, Rayla was injured and imprisoned, yet they still ghosted her without bothering to look into the matter.

[@qwefg3]

hey guys I just escaped jail! No you didn't come back right away so you must be a traitor. Hey guys my entire squad died, but I finished the mission. Also traitor. Either you all love or you all die. any deaths are caused by traitors. Guys I saw a random person cast dark magic two villages down south. You saw a dark wizard? All of you just be cast out for being traitors and working with dark magic! Hey I hid my dark secret as I am in charge of sun elves. Nice to meet you not traitor sun elves who we would cast out if we knew you had a dark secret.

[@TheoryPop]

I suspect the Historia spells is fairly high-level magic. Only a mage capable of casting it, or someone with a powerful enough Moon source (like the moon opal) could use it correctly. With the death of Avizandum, you'd think they might call for a powerful moon mage to cast that spell, but either they didn't because they didn't see a need to, or one wasn't available for that 4 month period between Thunder's death and the assassins arriving in Katolis. But it does seem the elves jump to the easy conclusions.

[@aronnemcsik]

I think Callum isn't a prodigy. i think he just start to understand how magic works. Due to his good memory he was able to remember the spell but I think it was a bit of luck as well. About the wings. Love makesd you fly. Problem solved. But seriously he probably have to has his mind set on it in order to make it work.

[@aprilvaiarella435]

@@aronnemcsik He managed a complex spell that only a few mages can do despite not having any formal training, having seen it only once, all while only having gained the ability to do magic at all a few weeks prior. He does this with almost every spell he knows and as even gained directional control over aspiro with no one to show him how or even to tell him that it was possible. If magic was that easy for everyone there is no reason why all elves aren't mages. No matter the reason for it, a prodigy is a prodigy.

[@rainstriderstreamflower5645]

I like those anyalis! It gives me a better understanding why Zubeia was pessimistic about her 🥚 survival despite not being present when her lair was raided.

[@tysondennis1016]

“And you’re an adult without a crown.” OOOHHHHH

[@TheoryPop]

T’was the sickest of burns

[@dragongeta0368]

I think that Viren trapped Rayla's parents in the coins, and because neither the egg nor them was there, they assumed that they ran and left the egg to die. (This was written before watching the video)

[@TheoryPop]

Haha, you basically covered the main points before seeing the video! That’s some solid prediction skills right there.

[@dragongeta0368]

@@TheoryPop I think it was pretty obvious if you think about it 😂😂😂

[@TheoryPop]

I did think about it, and then I made a video! :D

[@kasiakowalczyk5113]

Viren did the illusion of a broken egg. and everybody got it

[@rutger5000]

You want a real plothole in tje Dragon Prince. The 4 kingdom army left for Dragon spire on the same night as Ezran did. From the same location. Ezran flew on a magical bird who flew none stop. It took him 2 days to arive. Real life birds can migrate large distances at 80 km/h. No reason to assume the magical bird would travel slower. That means in 2 days. Ezran would have traveled about 4000 km. Roughly the distance between Lisbon and Moscow. This seems to fit with the map of the Dragon prince if you assume Xadia is roughly Eur-Asia sized. A realistic assumption. This would also mean that both Durens army and Virens army traveld the same distance in only 3 days. Seeing as they only arived at Dragon Spire 1 day after Ezran did. I personally have decided that Ezran Callum and Rayla spent betweem 2-3 months at Dragon Spire before the last episode of the season. It's the only thing to make sense.

[@TheoryPop]

I seem to recall a discussion on Twitter where someone tried to go into more detail on the journey, but I don't remember exactly what was said. I need to try and find it again. But I couldn't make the timeline match up with exactly how it's presented on screen. It would make more sense if there was some sort of time-skip within the series maybe.

[@rutger5000]

@@TheoryPop I've researched this a fair bit. The're might very well be more than 1 time skip, but the time skip at Dragon Spire is entirely necessary. The whole arc should last about 4 months at the least to 8 months at the most. Depending on how generous you want to be about army movement speed (100 km/ day is extremely generous), and how stingy you want to be about magical bird flying speed (80 km/h is stingy).

[@appa609]

rutger5000 yes 80 kph is probably a bit low. Geese average a bit less than that and you expect cruise speed to scale approximately with wing loading. Based on the look of ezran and the animal I’d guess 150 kph. 100 km/d is extremely generous. Armies include supply trains. 30 km/day is pretty fast.

[@rutger5000]

@@appa609 I know, I'm trying to reason as much as possible leeway. 100 km/d is indeed extremely generous. But perhaps defendable. Humans have prepared for a war with Xadia for about 1000 years. It stands to reason that they've paved roads and created supply depots on the routes towards the border. So that they could quickly marshal an army in case of an invasion. So while in the human kingdoms they could march for the entire day, rest during the night without having to set up camp, and average about 100 km/day. (They'd have to march for 18 h/day, which is doable for humans) Once in Xadia you would indeed expect supply trains. But we see no hint of them within the show. It's not terribly uncommon for armies to carry their own supplies. Armies like that can march faster. If we say than also say that Viren transformed the army quickly once in Xadia, and that the fire-demon army didn't need rest or supplies. Then I think it might average about 100 km/day. As for the 80 km/h. I could easily defend it being 200 km/h if I wanted it to. The fastest trekking birds cruise at an average of 100 km/h, Ezran flew on a giant magical bird. So multiplying it by 2 should be defendable. But that would only increase the problem, so I'm purposefully lowballing it at 80 km/h. Lets say it were moonless nights, and the bird had to carry Ezran so it was slower.

[@aronnemcsik]

Am I the only one who thinks that the sun elves city was way closer to the border and after changing them they probably didin't needed to sllep or eat so they could get there faster.

[@altithoraxperotorum5133]

Season 4 is confirmed by the director that they are working on it. And they said also that they will show in the first episodes that the conflict between man and elfs is not so easy to erase. But we should have kinda known that. I mean the only elfs that know himans aren't bad are some sunfire elfs, a skywing and 3 moonshadow elfs. Also sol regem knows that callum can do dark magic which could make the trust harder if when callum gets 6 masters he suddenly shows up and says the boy has the smell of death.

[@justanothergeek77]

I don't think Callum is going to learn all six arcanums, if that's what you meant by that; he seems perfectly happy with sky magic and it'll be interesting to see what he does with it. As for the dark magic thing, I have a theory that an early plot point will be undoing whatever Aaravos did to the Sun Forge so Callum can undergo the purification ritual, thereby ridding him of any lingering darkness. Although, even though it's my own theory, I think it might undermine the idea of actions having consequences if they do go down that route, so make what you will of it.

[@talkwalking2912]

Hmmm. I wonder what part of the spell controls for the time that is revealed? Mage's intent? Because, if there is no control for what is seen, then this could also be considered an invasion of the royal dragons' privacy.

[@TheoryPop]

It can’t just pick a random time. I think it’s likely to be the mage’s intent: they ask the spell to bring to life a moment in history, so it animates the event the mage has in mind while the spell is cast.

[@clipso9061]

From comicon we know that there’s going to be a time skip and the The interview with cartoon universe and the show writers make it seem like it’s going to be a rather large time skip what is this becomes a plot point of season four and five

[@altithoraxperotorum5133]

Ya know what would be stupid. That the dragon guard members who really abandoned their posts just told a big lie and are now celerbrated as heroes. I mean they could have told that they never escaped.

[@TheoryPop]

They could have come up with some big story, like “the dark mage teleported us away!” or something to cover the guilt!

[@justanothergeek77]

Ah, but Callum saw what happened! and if they don't believe him, they just need to get a moon mage to do the spell and see

[@aronnemcsik]

@@justanothergeek77 Considering Callum is respected by a few elf and about to learn some more magic he could mention it to them to find a moonshadow elf mage and just show him/her the spell itself. Than the ones who were there will believe Callum word. Plus his bro being bonded with the Dragon prince might help backed up with the world of the Dragon queen.

[@kasiakowalczyk5113]

@@justanothergeek77 And don't forget that Callum has photographic memory .

[@nionashborn7626]

A HARROW-ing sight!

[@TheoryPop]

That may or may not have been an intentional pun.

[@bgcvetan]

It makes one wonder: 1) How did they knew that it was Harrow, after all, humans are all the same to them... 2) Who truly send the assasination order ?

[@TheoryPop]

They may have used the Historia Viventum spell to see exactly what happened to Avizandum. They would have seen it was Harrow that dealt the killing blow, but Zubeia would then have been unwilling to also watch her egg be destroyed. But even if they didn’t know it was Harrow, the assassination would have been to serve justice: humans killed the king of dragons and his child, so the elves would kill the king of the largest human kingdom and his child to make it even.

[@wendyheatherwood]

There could have been witnesses that saw them somewhere nearby. As there aren't supposed to be any humans around at all they could have worked it out from that, specially if they knew the Dragon King had killed Harrow's wife the last time they crossed the border.

[@paulchapman8023]

The spear that Harrow and Viren left stuck in Avizandum’s petrified body might have given them all the answers they needed, based on either the design or the enchantment Viren cast on it. Both could reasonably point to Katolis as the guilty party. And the assassins were sent to avenge the death of a king and a prince with the death of a king and a prince; maybe they didn’t know that King Harrow was directly responsible, since they certainly knew that Ezran wasn’t.

[@rainstriderstreamflower5645]

​@@TheoryPop Or Zubiea recognized the spear in her mate's chest as Sarai's and put two and two together.

[@altithoraxperotorum5133]

Wonder if they will get the coins back. Or if viren still has them after his fall. But he gave a big foreshadowing with your mother can't protect you now. And perhaps ethari looks harder at the flower.

[@alexnightshade7424]

My guess is that when the spell was cast at the moon nexus the moonshadow elves were performing some kind of magical ritual and their bodies were actually glowing that is why we only see their outlines

[@TheoryPop]

This seems likely, they appeared to be mid ritual when Callum was watching them!

[@XSanctusMalumX]

Another possibility Viren covered his tracks because of the taboo nature of dark magic it would be unlikely anyone from Xadia would be able to tell if a dark magic illusion or warding spell design to hide what really happened was in place as for why when Callum cast his spell he could see the truth well magic can fade as we can see by the fact Viren has to re apply his butterfly make up spell.

[@TheoryPop]

That's a possibility. Viren may have used dark magic to try and confound any detection or revealing spells.

[@rainstriderstreamflower5645]

​@@TheoryPop Or the ice Viren used to trap Tiadrin and Lain washed away their scent after the ice melted.

[@Roseworksstudios]

I think that the more detailed illusion is a detail that has a connection to Callum himself. I love how a mage can make a magic system their own. Callum has always been an artist and has a good photo memory. So I believe that’s a good reason as to why his historia was more detailed. Also, on your theory, I do believe no one thought to because of the Queen’s mental state. However, I still believe that they should’ve still done so because that is a spell of undeniable proof. Rayla’s parents are forever marked as traitors and that cannot be changed easily. Not only that, but the assumption almost led to innocent bloodshed if Rayla chose to kill Ezren. Fact checking is something everyone can do and rely on before making a huge mistake.

[@sauceboss9610]

What I want to know is what happened to the other dragon guard i mean we know that they fled and to do so would have caused an outrage to find them so did none of them say that them two were the only ones left and why is it that Rayla's parents get the blame instead of all of the dragon guard?

[@TheoryPop]

They may never have been caught, so no-one has asked them the question yet. We, so far, have only seen characters that have a connection to Rayla's parents, so we've only been presented with Rayla's shame and disappointment in her family. The other guard would also shoulder the blame, but the audience's perspective has been focused more on Rayla's path to redemption for her family's perceived cowardice.

[@ryankwon8785]

I think Lujanne invented/discovered Historia Viventum herself. It’s like one making or crafting a spell. An example would be how Professor Snape invented/discovered Sectumsempra.

[@larrydavison8298]

Rayla: Moonshadow elves aren't supposed to show fear, ever. Rayla was "ghosted" by her community without a hearing. Moonshadow elves, at least, are prone to rushing to judgement. Ibis (the sky mage) points out mages are rare, even among elves, and Historia Viventem is moon magic, requiring not only knowing the spell, but access to the moon arcanum, if only second hand. No surprise it wasn't used to investigate, before Callum used it.

[@luminous2585]

I don't get why everyone is so okay with Callum suddenly using moon magic. Did I miss the part where someone told him how moon opals are supposedly as strong as a primal stone, but only good for one use? Aren't they just special gems with a relatively high amount of magic in them that puts them on par with being near a primal nexus (for one use)? That would still not allow Callum to cast the spell because even being near a primal nexus doesn't help him unless he has the right arcanum.

[@BrokensoulRider]

@@luminous2585 The pendant he had was imbued with the moon arcanum.

[@kasiakowalczyk5113]

@@BrokensoulRider This stone was a real piece of the moon.

[@BrokensoulRider]

@@kasiakowalczyk5113 Uh? English?

[@vibezonegaming]

So my main Dragon Prince thing is why didn’t Viren use the same spell that Claudia used to to bring him back to life on King Harrow? If you want to go with Viren was going to betray the king eventually thing, his backstabbing tendencies didn’t really start till after his talk with Harrow that night and even then he would’ve still tried. At least have the spell discussed by Viren and Claudia back then to establish its existence.

[@rainstriderstreamflower5645]

I think the reason why Viren didn't resurrect Harrow was because, Harrow made it perfectly clear that he rather die for his sense then spend the rest of his days as a coward. Besides, cheating death would escalate tensions with Xadia.

[@raven1436]

They probably assumed they abandoned the egg because there were no bodies

[@TheoryPop]

That could be the case. No bodies, then probably no fight!

[@redraptorx1066]

"Historia Viventem" seems like an extremely useful spell for both a historian to use as well as a detective on an investigative team.

[@fatimaansari744]

I was kinda mad at the creators for taking the easy way out, saying "dont worry Rayla, your parents were actually heroes" instead of having Rayla confront her guilt and get over her parents' mistake. Thank you for this.

[@kagerouiris5959]

I think there were other moon shadow dogs on the Dragon gaurd , they fled back to the city and said that Dallas parents fled and they stayed to fight so they wouldn't get banished. And with adding wut u said they could of thought there was very little reason to go see

[@josephg3462]

God I hope they show the remaining guards next season. Maybe they spun the story to blame the parents, absolving them of cowardice.

[@TheoryPop]

That’s possible. The other Dragonguard would have had no-one to debunk anything they said, so could have come up with something to lay the blame at Tiadrin and Latin’s feet.

[@tomnorton4277]

If guarding Zubeia and the Dragon Egg was so important, why weren't the guards asked to bind themselves to their duty? That way if they fled, they'd lose a limb unless a dragon bites off their binding.

[@Chaosmage42]

could be a lot of things but there is also the question of how clear the vision was, the moon opal thats made by someone who knew the people present and also rayla being there, might have also made the spell clearer. also he might have a lot of magic potental and able to use a spell that normally gives unclear or foggy visions more clarity than usual. if thats the case it could be they did use the spell but they didn't see things that clearly they also may have only seen viren go up and seem to strike the egg and not see the entire event, after all he was looking for what happened to her parents not the egg.

[@yumeijenkins396]

Historia viventum to be used to explain Viren being a sleezy dirtbag that gaslights his childern, and his orchestrated attacks on the 4 kingdoms.

[@varia2354]

I mean, 5-10 years is far from 1000. That and there was a maximum of nine (Dragon guard+Viren) entities having to be shown compared to Lujanne's 15-30. Definitely not because of the moon opal because Lujanne cast it at the moon nexus.

[@TheoryPop]

Avizandum’s death and Viren’s assault on the spire was only months earlier, not even a full year, so if the Historia Viventum spell does indeed work on the basis of “the more recent the event, the greater the detail” then yeah, Callum would absolutely be able to get that kind of clarity from the spell. There’s the possibility Lujanne, when recreating the ritual, didn’t want to show that level of detail, so as not to allow the ritual to be replicated. She’s meant to guard the power of the moon nexus from humans, so she wouldn’t reveal all of its secrets.

[@crg2033]

I have a sort of half theory which is Viren used the Soul fang on the king as he’s never seen leaving the room with it and I think he put Harrow into his bird as the bird was always singing no matter before but after the kings death and Viren said “oh no song for the occasion?” The bird looked away from him and appeared to be mad, this would always help to explain why Viren was so adamant and desperate to burn the Kings body so soon as someone would’ve noticed that something was wrong, plus you can see the bird briefly in season 3 episode 9 flying over the area where the battle is about to start as if he’s watching over his sons, it’s just an idea and I have no idea how credible it is but just thought it was an interesting idea personally

[@DragonGoddess18]

What about that Skywing Elf that Lain and Tiadrin talked to? He knew that they wanted to stay and protect the egg.

[@TheoryPop]

Yes, he does know this, but he fled and hid. If he was not captured by the elves, no-one would know what he saw.

[@aronnemcsik]

@@TheoryPop He could have lied about it to cover his own covardice.

[@kasiakowalczyk5113]

who would believe a fugitive ?

[@MichaelJW72]

I think the Moon Shadow elves also have an obsession with maintaining their honor. Heck Rayla was going to stay behind and face certain death before Callum showed her the truth. I seriously believe that they would look at Zuko’s obsession with restoring his honor and think “he’d make a good moon shadow elf.

[@ethenallen1388]

The impression I got is that Historia Reventum response to the wishes of the caster: If the caster just wants a general image, that's all that appears. If the caster wants specific details, that what the spell provides.

[@longshot9757]

2:30 Or perhaps Callum, as the caster and not a bystander, had a more detailed view of events. Previously, it was Lujanne who casted the spell, not Callum.

[@thomasdaywalt7735]

elves so quick to judge

[@ethenallen1388]

It's not just an elfin trait I think.

[@PropiaRealidad]

The biggest plot-hole is not that they didn't use the historia viventum spell. The biggest plot-hole was that there was 1 sky elf that suggested Rayla's parents to run away and they vehemently said they were not going to. What happened to that sky elf? Was he killed by Viren? Was he executed/punished for running away? Was he left unpunished? Or is he still running away? In half those scenarios the elf could have said that Rayla's parents stayed and fought.

[@darththeo]

It is technically a plot hole. However, there are many ways to explain it. When it comes with Elves with magic, they always seem to use it for a reason, never just because so no one was going to doubt the story of what happened with all the evidence enough to "double check" with the spell. The only beings we see use magic just because are Viren and Claudia. We do not ever see elves use magic in the same way. There is a purpose behind primal magic, while Dark Magic appears to be meant to make things easier for the user.

[@LiveSndMan581]

But if Reyla's parents where captured in the coins, how did Reyla know that they were alive? We already know from Runan that people struggle to see those magic flowers underwater, if her parents even had those flowers connected

[@TheoryPop]

The flowers are specifically an assassin ritual, Rayla’s parents wouldn’t have had them. Rayla “knows” they are still alive in the same way the elves “knew” the humans destroyed the egg of the Dragonprince.

[@kasiakowalczyk5113]

I think the last Skywing who ran away lied that everyone ran away to have less trouble. Before she broke down completely, the queen allowed some magicians to investigate but they had no effect. She could meet them during those four months. Or someone lied to her what really happened to them. Plus, the Elves have no such knowledge of dark magic spells as human dark magicians. Probably Runaan knows what Viren did to them but he is now busy being part of his coin collection. If someone ever releases him, he can tell them what he discovered.

[@Ascensionshypnosis]

Actually I personally believe that Rivas parents still alive I specifically remember vera and say when he had them both captured “ how many I repay you? Oh I have a just the fate in mind “ he could i’ve been referring to trapping them in the coins and maybe when Callum did that spell he thought they had died when really they were sucked inside the coins because if you remember Renan was put inside the coins and he looked pretty dead so maybe Callum got it confused

[@GoverGames]

I have a theory...(typing on mobile so it will be shortened) I am not sure whether I believe this or not, but I will share it. Callum is the Avatar. Think about it, he is the only human that can use sky magic, which is just air magic. And what about the lightning spell? Fire benders can use lightning. It explains why he recognized the staff as a boomerang. Maybe he saw his past or future self. And maybe the elements will develop into Water, Earth, Fire, and Air. The animals have magic powers too, in Avatar: the Last Airbender, animals teach humans how to bend the elements. Much like how humans use the animals for Dark Magic. Let me know what you think.

[@TheoryPop]

While it's an interesting idea, and I do think there are parallels that can be drawn between Avatar and TDP, I think they are separate universes.

[@gracekim1998]

GoverGames Er.........

[@gracekim1998]

GoverGames different UNIVERSES

[@anjaschannel8463]

Here’s a theory, idk if anyone has thought of it but: what if Viren cast an illusion spell and that’s why everyone believed Lain and Tiadrin had deserted. I know it sounds crazy but hear me out, after all, Claudia is a dark mage and she cast an illusion spell. It’s entirely plausible that Viren also cast one, one that would cover his tracks when historia viventum (idk if that’s the spelling) was cast so that it would be believed that the egg had been destroyed. It doesn’t sound so far fetched that Viren knows about the historia viventum spell. This would mean that even if the incident was investigated- which is very likely, even if it was by other elves and not the Queen- Viren’s tracks would be covered and Xadia wouldn’t send anyone to retrieve the egg. Bearing in mind that Callum found the truth when he cast the spell, it’s very likely that Viren’s spell to cover his tracks wore off or faded away.

[@anjaschannel8463]

Idk just a theory, also maybe there was more detail in Callum’s historia viventum because he had more of a connection with the people in it- through Rayla to her parents (it was Rayla’s moon opal necklace, crafted by Ethari, who knew Tiadrin and Lain well) and through his father to Viren. Also could be because as an artist he has an eye for details? Idk, let me know if you think any of these theories make sense.

[@TheoryPop]

An interesting idea. It could be that Callum knowing people involved in the event he’s viewing with the spell had an effect on the detail, or his artist’s eye for detail.

[@TheoryPop]

It’s possible Viren might know about the Historia Viventum spell, though I don’t think we’ve seen him study or mention moon magic. But we know Viren is capable of using Aspiro and Aspiro Frigas, two primal spells, when he had the stone, so it’s not out of the question that he’d know a little bit about other primal magics. I guess it would depend on whether on whether or not an illusion would be shown when casting Historia Viventum.

[@demonwolf348]

What if the key of Aravos is his prison?

[@TheoryPop]

It could be! I think there's a few fans in the community that like that theory.

[@justanothergeek77]

I personally think that the mirror itself is the prison, not just a window, and that the key of Aaravos is exactly what it sounds like; the key to the mirror. It's probably more complicated than key+mirror=freed aaravos, like maybe there's a prerequisite of knowing all 6 arcanums (or 7 if dark magic is included) or something. but that's just my thoughts!

[@aronnemcsik]

@@TheoryPop I think the key of Aravos is the Key to understand the Arcanums. It reacts to them so it could be a secret inside of it to unravel the mysteries. Or simply just the huge chunk of Aravos power and in order to have his full power he must unlock it.

[@21TheRonin]

I agree with others here that *Historia Viventum* is probably not thaught in Moonschool and most elves probably have no access to it. What puzzles me more is why the Dragon Guard didn't just kick Viren's butt? I mean sure, some of them might have been absent with Zubeia and yes, the few remaining ones probably shat themselves seeing the archdragon of the Sky get one-shotted by some dude with a spear, but did nobody think "Hey, it's just two guys and they are probably exhausted - let's fuck'em up!" So much for being an *elite* guard.

[@TheoryPop]

That probably is the case, it’s likely a high-level spell that only a few mages know or are able to use. But then you’d think the queen of the dragons could send for a powerful moon mage to perform it, if she so chose. And if the Dragonguard had all stuck around, they could probably have beaten Viren. But what they’d seen is Avizandum, one of the most powerful beings in Xadia, turned to stone in mere moments. That’d be pretty terrifying. But I guess most of them didn’t value their oaths as much as Tiadrin and Lain did.

[@larrydavison8298]

We only saw three members of the guard, and only Rayla's parents were moonshadow elves.

[@aronnemcsik]

@@larrydavison8298 the guards might have been chosen from all kinds of elfs as the symbol of Alliance or something.

[@dredgenauryx3382]

Being realistic... one dark mage against 8? elves... all elite warriors... When the magic struggled against 2... The cowardice of the dragon guard was not justified but we also have to take into account that they just saw two humans kill the king of the dragons... Viren's cheat trough dark magic made him seem more powerful then he was and made the dragon guard panic and run from a laughably easy fight... or at least that is what I hope happened because the alternative doesn't look good for the supposed elven elite...

[@TheoryPop]

This is an issue I have with the Dragonguard. If the others had all stayed, as their oath demanded, I have no doubt they could have easily taken Viren. Tiadrin and Lain on their own almost defeated him, if the full squad was there, they’d have won. But I think the show was trying to get across just how terrifying and abhorrent dark magic is to the elves: they saw Avizandum killed by dark magic, that is power they thought they couldn’t contend with.

[@eagercadet4059]

I would like to answer this question with another question. Why don't we invest more into colonising other planets before we met an end just like the Dinosaurs? after all we know the crater made by that same threat, so why don't we heed it? now apply that question to the world of The Dragon prince and you will see your answer, even with sapience we are short sighted and cannot comprehend how the future may unfold, how could we divine when plagues and wars would erupt? how could we tell when once loved companies would lose all semblance of respect and become hated by their own followers? And how can we be sure that what we know is correct and there isn't another law important for existence to operate? and do writers see that something might become a plot hole later on? even though there are better things to strive for people will always fall into the same pit fall of fighting each other over a slight or pursuing debaucheries that are fleeting, opposed to do something that might secure their futures and that of others, and by this fault Elves and Dragons have something in common with Humanity, when Men lived in Xadia their plight was ignored, they saw them as "lesser beings" and by the sin of neglect let men fester with their contempt who then turned to profane methods to earn recognition, a method that they grew complacent with and so was unfurled a spiral descent into mutual destruction Harrow agreed to Viren's simpler method of poaching a creature to save his people which cost him his wife and even other 2 queens of another kingdom, Avizandum only cared about his mate, his unhatched son and patrolling the border of Xadia and never questioned what would make humans so desparate that they would infiltrate a land they were exiled from, Harrow in his grief sought revenge on the Dragon King and he got it and didn't consider if Xadia would also seek revenge after, it brought him no peace and Viren's greed worsened the outcome by leaving Zubeia not only a widow, but also childless and she in her grief sent assassins after Harrow and his son's life, something that Harrow realised when it was already too late. How worse could it have been if Ezran was killed with Harrow? Blood for Blood, Pain to Pain, Grief upon Grief How much suffering and hell could of been averted if Elves gave a hand, and Men learned through effort they could be more then what they began as?

[@olivierst-martin5383]

I mean if the egg was destroyed and they made Zubeia watch it she would have been crushed so they did not use the spell historia viventum.

[@zubu2112]

I feel like sky elves (can't remember the actual name) had sth to do with them being blamed for it. Because you know, they are not the kindest and most trustworthy elves out there.

[@rainstriderstreamflower5645]

The elf's name was Hendyr.

[@mattbowden4996]

It's worth noting that six of the eight Dragon Guards DID run away - in the absence of evidence to the contrary, it wouldn't be unreasonable to assume that all eight fled and that at least two of them have not yet been caught up with. If any of the six Dragon Guard that fled have been caught, it's unlikely that they'd admit that two of their number did remain behind, but would more likely attempt to exculpate themselves by claiming that the res of the Dragon Guard had fled, so what were they supposed to do?

[@klee5213]

Moon mages are very rare just like sky elves having wings, which is why they didn’t use mages to kill the king

[@TheoryPop]

I’m sure a moon mage would have responded if the Queen of the Dragons has sent for one.

[@LeaderoftheFates]

I believe he did the same thing to them as he did with the elf in the dungeon put them in a pair of coins, it makes there bodies disappear and the xydians just believed everyone abandon there post.

[@TheoryPop]

I suspect you’re right! Viren says he will “repay” them, hinting at something money related. He also shows Rayla the bag of coins and tells her he wants to add more Moonshadow elves to his collection, so he certainly has more elf coins than just Runaan!

[@larrydavison8298]

@@TheoryPop Three more than Ruaan, and I suspected Rayla's parents were two of them when I saw the episode were Viren "coined" Ruaan.

[@gracekim1998]

Hmmm 🤔 what do you think Avarrvos did to Janai’s grandma?😅 do you think he’s got a bigger agenda going on with using Viren

[@TheoryPop]

That’s an excellent question. He either did something, or knows something, terrible happened to her. He’s definitely got bigger plans for Viren.

[@kasiakowalczyk5113]

Maybe He killed Aditi .? He burned her alive with the magic of the sun tainted with dark magic. Drowned in the ocean He strangled with the magic of the sky. He's not sitting in that mirror for nothing.

[@gracekim1998]

@@kasiakowalczyk5113 my guess is he may have killed her too😅

[@ouchanrrul1591]

Maybe they lost most of the knowledge to cast moon spells, or they're not as strong, since the Moon Nexus is on the human side of the border.

[@TheoryPop]

I would imagine a lot of the knowledge of spells and magic of the Moon Arcanum is held at the Moon Nexus

[@mermaidfinn]

what i'm wondering is how the other elves wouldn't think they're dead if raylas parents most likely used a binding spell for their task to protect the dragon egg. runaan ended up in a coin and his life force flower sunk halfway, making everyone think he died when really he's just trapped. moon shadow elves most likely always do the wrist bind ritual for important tasks, and if they did for this, then why doesn't everyone assume they died fighting to protect the egg?

[@mehmetcaneksi8388]

There was a sky elf who fled whom also tried to persuad raylas parents to fled. He must have lied to defend himself

[@inactive-u6j]

But there is one more problem, the flowers. We know that when runaan got trapped in the coin, his flower almost sunk to the bottom of the fountain, but no one checked, so he was presumed dead. So the same thing must have happened to Rayla’s parents when they got trapped in the coins, meaning their flowers sunk and everyone else’s stayed floating. So why were they blamed?

[@TheoryPop]

They didn’t have flowers. The flowers are specifically used for the assassination missions, which Runaan and his team went on. Rayla’s parents weren’t assassins, they were Dragon Guard, and so didn’t go through the flower ritual.

[@silvertongue.242_99]

Question: is callum easily using the wings magic kinda weird sense it takes years to learn? Or is he just that high magic user because of blood maybe cause most of the spells he use before doesn't need much training. Also I was thinking throughout season 3 callum should use his magic more to assist in combat before the final battle. Also later seasons should help him become more efficient and capable in combat since he might need to fight with or without rayla. He almost died in the battle because of that

[@TheoryPop]

Callum's come a long way in a short time in his use of magic. His Aspiro and Fulminis spells are just as powerful now as when he used the Primal Stone, which was an entire storm! I think it's a combination of his understanding of the Sky Arcanum, his photographic memory, and, in the case of the mage wing spell, having a pure motivation to learn: love. Alternatively, something less sappy, but I do think his good-aligned nature helps.

[@silvertongue.242_99]

@@TheoryPop very true make sense. The other spells I make sense and I forgot he had photographic memory just how he learned the wing spell was cheesy Thanks for the response

[@larrydavison8298]

Mage Wing is the first spell Callum couldn't execute successfully on his first attempt. Callum has not only photographic memory, but artistic talent, even if he's self trained. He's been drawing for years, as his sketch book shows, he's good at it.

[@silvertongue.242_99]

@@larrydavison8298 so artistic talent help with magic? I am just saying the story says it takes years if training to do this for elf mages which magic comes natural to. Callum did it with the power of love, I wanna see him train man so he could be better in combat

[@weirdreportt]

Moonshadow elves are really weird creatures. They would value facing death rather than running away no matter what the consequences are. It's not efficient sometimes clinging to your emotions solely without having no concrete logical foundations to a certain problem. They also like to jump on conclusions without further investigation. Just like how Viren said before he trap Runaan into a coin, he recalls that moonshadow elves took honor in death seriously, so instead of just killing them, Viren traps their souls into a coin.

[@ehe.2961]

One thing though: when veren 'killed' the first moon shadow elves, we see that theyre been placed in couns and their life lillies sunk. Lets assume that since all missions are treated like this. Then, wont veren have most likely placed them in coins? For his collection because truly (i could be wrong cause im just typing qnd trying to remember) he seemed to have more coins than just those first eleves. He could have rayla's parents. It would line up, wont it? Unless theyre in exile?

[@TheoryPop]

We didn’t see Viren put the other assassin’s from Runaan’s team into coins, and we didn’t actually see the coins themselves to know who is trapped in them. Runaan was put into a coin, and his lily is only half-sunk, but the other lilies are all completely sunk, so those elves were likely killed during the battle at the castle. I think it’s heavily implied Rayla’s parents are inside the coins, and it’s them that Runaan saw.

[@josebuenrostro1430]

Wait but there was another plot hole, when at her home Rayla said that they made one of those flower things for each of her parents like they did for the assassins. When Rayla's uncle was put into a coin the flower sunk but is still flashing showing he is still alive in some form. If they did the flowers for Rayla's parents it would appear to everyone that they had died and not run away. Maybe I miss heard what was said in the episode so feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

[@TheoryPop]

The flowers are a specific tradition for assassins that are sent out on missions. I don't think Rayla's parents would have had them, as they were Dragonguard.

[@elisiumlol]

this has 420 views. _nice_

[@TheoryPop]

Nice

[@Scalesthelizardwizard]

Me: don't worry my queen I know someone who may be able to help. *dials a number* Me: Hey Senku I need you asap we got a stoned arch dragon.

[@TheoryPop]

Oh no, but his arm and a wing fell off!

[@Scalesthelizardwizard]

@@TheoryPop notting super glue won't fix

[@rystlnix2682]

@@Scalesthelizardwizard Thought Senku said once a body was shattered it couldn't be brought back?

[@Scalesthelizardwizard]

@@rystlnix2682 It's mostly a joke but I think he'll find a way to fix them but who knows

[@TheoryPop]

There once was a dragon called Thunder Whose body was all torn asunder The elves knew not what to do So used superglue And assassins went in undercover Soren is my muse.

[@brianburke4756]

For all we know, time may have been a factor in this matter. Lejunna's event might have been hundreds or possibly a thousand years in the past at the Moon Nexus. The event involving Rayla's parents may have been months or possibly only weeks old, and thus, maybe there was more detail involved. Who would know? The creators. Ask them.

[@TheoryPop]

The event with Rayla’s parents was around 4 months before the beginning of the show, so much more recent than the ritual shown at the Moonhenge.

[@dennisseuferling815]

I have another theory. The elves didn't care about other possibilities. My reason has to do with the circumstances of Rayla's banishment. We saw in the show that her flower was still floating, but Runa'an didn't fall until several days after everyone else. The elves, instead of assuming Rayla and Runa'an were captured and runa'an eventually killed chose to assume Rayla abandoned the team. I don't believe the elves would have stopped to do consider other possibilities.

[@robertfinley3715]

I want Claudia to use the spell to find out that her father DID tell him to kill the princes

[@maxs9062]

Robert Finley Claudia can’t use primal magic without a pre-established connection to a primal source. Something like her primal stone, that Callum stole and then smashed, or the sun staff she used during the battle for the storm spire, or, in the case of casting Historia Vivintum, a crushed moon ople which she doesn’t have.

[@mistyharbeck9402]

But It must of been dangerous and we also learned the Moon shadow elves have enchanted flowers so when one dies the flower sinks and we know that when Viran puts elves in coins their on the verge of life and death as is showed when Renan’s flower is floating but is below the water surface so they must have seen that it sank and wonder if they fled why would it sink?

[@TheoryPop]

We know that only Moonshadow assassins have the flower. Rayla’s parents weren’t assassins, so wouldn’t have had them.

[@nickwierenga987]

I wanna see them use the spell in the thrown room where the king "died" something tells me he is trapped in the staff or in the gem in it....

[@synderthmc]

2:35 Hey just like a... I dont know something, something, technology

[@5lea]

I will tell you a plot hole. Viren and his army arriving from Lux Aurea to Storm Spire for half the time compared to Rayla and friends on a giant giraffe thing. And if you know what the speed of an army whos traveled by foot is you will understand why it's impossible to be faster. Not to mention that Soren did it in a few hours without knowing the path (but let's say that the Storm Spire is tall and you can see it from 2 days of straight walking which I don't think you can). -bad English here I know.

[@lee.as.in.l.e.e.7394]

Dear God, the death of an unborn dragon sounds horrific

[@TheoryPop]

I can’t imagine it would be particularly pleasant to witness.

[@levio-sunny]

I love the design of Rayla's parents; they look so cool!