Was Urdu imposed on Pakistan as a national language? - TPE Clips

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Manan Ahmed, Associate Professor, is a historian of South Asia and the littoral western Indian Ocean world from 1000-1800 CE. His areas of specialization include intellectual history in South and Southeast Asia; critical philosophy of history, colonial and anti-colonial thought. He is the author of 'The Loss of Hindustan: The Invention of India' and 'A Book of Conquest'.
Manan comes on The Pakistan Experience to discuss his latest book, 'The Loss of Hindustan', and we get into a deep dive discussion about history and the need for the decolonization process.
How many things we take be natural were actually constructed by Colonization? Till we do not reexamine our own history, we will continue struggling with the identity crises that face us.
On this podcast we discuss, the historical significance of the word 'Hindustan', the process by which Colonizers enslaved us, the Hindutva philosophy, the language debate and 1971.
The Pakistan Experience is an independently produced podcast looking to tell stories about Pakistan, and Pakistanis, through the lost art of conversation. We do deep dive long form podcasts to show you the many shades that encapsulate The Pakistan Experience.
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The podcast is hosted by comedian and writer, Shehzad Ghias Shaikh. Shehzad is a Fulbright scholar with a Masters in Theatre from Brooklyn College. He is also one of the foremost Stand-up comedians in Pakistan and frequently writes for numerous publications. He can be found on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter and Tinder.
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[@AkashS97]

In India according to Indian constitution we have 22 official languages. My native language is both hindi and bengali as my parents were from different parts of India. We Can't even think that one day hindi will be imposed on the whole country!!! I feel really sad for Pakistani Punjabis. They don't even know their own language!!!! Strange

[@paritoshdaurwal9484]

@@saanjanibaar8085 indus valley civilization and hindi 😂

[@saanjanibaar8085]

@@paritoshdaurwal9484 don't know what though process encouraged me to write that comment. So funny man 🤣

[@paritoshdaurwal9484]

@@saanjanibaar8085 it's ok we all make mistakes 👍

[@AkashS97]

@Aoun Muhammad That's why sindhi culture is still alive. I have met many pakistani Punjabis and most of them don't know Punjabi!!!!! Although I know Punjabi quite well

[@Lyallpuriya]

First of all, India doesn't have 22 official languages. That's a myth! India has only two official languages: English & Hindi. The other 21 languages (English is not among them) are scheduled languages, meaning that they can be used for official purposes but the primary official languages of the Union government will remain Hindi & English. Secondly, we don't need Indian lectures on how we, Pakistani Punjabis, don't even know our language. Pakistani Punjabis know Punjabi much better than Indians know their own native languages. You guys always talk about "22 official languages" which btw are scheduled languages of your country. India has 1,652 spoken languages. Why don't Indian government mentions all 1,652 languages of India in your constitution? Why only 22? Why don't your Indian government make Bhojpuri, Magadhi, Maithila, Angika and Sadri the official languages of Bihar? Aren't Bihari languages important in the eyes of Indian government? I've seen many Indians mocking Biharis and making fun of their accent & languages. Rajasthani languages are also very beautiful. Why don't your government make any provision to recognize Rajasthani languages?

[@daniyalshaiq795]

I, being a Punjabi, used to think about this language divide, but I couldn't find any better explanation than this. Thank you :)

[@emraanzia]

Why aren't regional languages not promoted in Pakistan?? Plz do more programs

[@aliansari709]

What do you mean?

[@greendro6410]

There's more Urdu speakers in India than Pakistan and majority of Pakistan speak Punjabi more than Urdu lmao 😆😂🤣 the irony. Now the Pashtuns of Pakistan, Balochis and Sindhis don't want to be apart of Pakistan no more. I'm glad Bangladesh got it's independent from Pakistan in 1971 we can embrace our language and our culture than have it be wiped out by this so called Urdu speaking identity.

[@zaheedakhatun6794]

Thanks for sharing your thoughts on Urdu imposition.

[@iyi4322]

Punjabi language spoken in Pakistan by majority but we doesn't read and write Punjabi in Punjab why?

[@farmad100]

b/c we punjabis are not proud of our language. There are many lame excuses such as Urdu/Panjabi are actually same language OR panjabi bolnay say PANDO lagtay hain etc........99% educated punjabis in Pakistan impose urdu at their homes!!!!!! Even me a hardline punjabi, am unable to talk with my son/daughter in punjabi. I tried may times but failed to do so !!!!!!!

[@iyi4322]

@@farmad100 oh Sad Get well Soon Punjab 😢

[@professionalist5263]

@@iyi4322 because we are ruled by Urdu speaking Kashmiris

[@iyi4322]

@@professionalist5263 Means?

[@professionalist5263]

@@iyi4322 look at the top leadership of pmln they are all Kashmiris and they are in power for quite some time how will they care about Punjabi when they don't consider themselves as Punjabi Other than Zia ul haq no prominent Punjabi have lead Pakistan all Pathans bhuttos and Kashmiris How can they declare Punjabi as official language of Punjab (like other provinces have given importance to their language) and create problems for themselves by creating ethnic nationalism in Punjab as well like other provinces

[@bilalansarkhan3008]

congratulations on fixing your lighting (:

[@sheheryaraslam1816]

There was no such language named 'Urdu'. The same language had different names; hindi, hindui, rekhta etc. For more, Please read Shamsu Rehman Farooqi.

[@Lyallpuriya]

Then what language was called 'Zaban-e-Urdu-e-Mualla' in the 16th century?

[@paritoshdaurwal9484]

Rekhta is actually desi version of Urdu.

[@ashwinnair9862]

The only time you hear Pakistani Punjabi speaking in Punjabi is when they abuse or at home which is limited as well. Punjabi as a language and as a literature was killed on the behest of military and mullah for their own dubious project.

[@AshokGupta-oq6hs]

Sir,it was a simple decision on 2 counts. Mughals introduced it as a mixture of hindi,persian,Arabic and turkish(mughals were central Asian nomadic turks) Urdu's script is Arabic and therefore closest to the Arabic language of Arabic religion .

[@farmad100]

what to say about 1947, even today in many parts of KP and Balochistan , Urdu is neither spoken nor understood. Even the educated people in KP dont use urdu with their children at homes and there is no harm in it. It actually shows the pride in their culture. We Punjabis dont feel pride in our own culture, therefore we dont prefer, rather we impose urdu on our next generation.

[@syedqamberalikazmi1001]

Shah wali ullah didn't write any book in Urdu and second is that the portrait present in this video is not of Shah Wali ullah instead of Ahmed Shah Abdali.

[@mithsindia5150]

Beautiful discussion bro, languages are so beautiful Urdu, Bengali,Sindhi ,Punjabi,Tamil etc🙏. Hamari to entertainment industry zero ho jaayegi agar hum ek language Pai force dain. In my country we still speak Hindustani (Hindi+Urdu) ,pure Hindi only Political leaders use and pure Urdu only poets or people from Lucknow use, not current generation 😀 Anyhow lots of love and respect for your work,I know what you do needs lots of courage and research 🙏

[@salimalvi5178]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/b5rVppWmls2MetE

[@salimalvi5178]

@@AsifAli-yq2bv why do u care?

[@paulconstatine2995]

Thanks for speaking up for us punjabis punjab is the only province in which its national language is banned

[@Lyallpuriya]

Stop lying! Punjabi is not banned in Pakistani Punjab.

[@bijoydasudiya]

Then why doesn't Punjab Legislative Assembly function in Punjabi? Of course, there's a Punjabi department in the Punjab University, Lahore. You can do Masters in Punjabi.

[@watchofficial4519]

Urdu hindi controvery Q hue urdu to hamari language he nh the us waqt hamari language to arabic ya farsi the to ye urdu hindi Q hue

[@FaridUlIslam-co2ys]

You are talking against Urdu but in Urdu! Wow! What a duality!

[@aliansari709]

We Pakistani knows our language. And that is Urdu. Everyone in Pakistan speak Urdu. People in Punjab and Lahore speak Punjabi. Not other parts of Pakistan. Punjabi language is not even in any Pakistan schools curriculum. Moreover, Indians never give importance to Urdu. Indians only focus on Hindi or English. But whenever they see Pakistani speaking Urdu or Pakistani adopted Urdu language, they cry about it. As we can see a lot of videos on you tube . Furthermore, There are many subjects in Urdu. For example, Islam studies, social studies and etc. Urdu is indeed taught in every schools in Pakistan. And it’s Mandatory not optional. In india they taught but as an optional subject. There in no mandatory introductory course in curricula of schools of UP. But one can opt for, if he / she wants. There are Madarsas too who offer Urdu as a subject and also as a medium of study. Mostly Muslim population focus on Urdu india not hind speakers.

[@emraanzia]

Need more programs on Punjabi identity

[@Lyallpuriya]

What "Punjabi identity"? I have seen this topic thrown upon Punjabis a lot of time by these illiberals and I can tell you these folks have no idea about what bullshit they are talking about. Punjabis don't need lectures about their identity and heritage from these f*cking leftists.

[@umerjavednisar]

Punjabi parhai nahin jaati punjab main to yeh punjabiyon ka masla hai. Kyun nahin parhatay. Sindh main sindhi parhai jaati hai kyunkay sindhiyon chahtay thay kay parhai jaye. koi rok thaam nahin hai is main

[@indious360]

Punjabis love identifying themselves with foreign legacy than their own native culture

[@umerjavednisar]

@@indious360 not true. Punjabis in Pakistan are very proud. Punjabis are just more unionist than some other people of Pakistan

[@AbdulKareem-cj1yv]

Bilkul shai farmaya AP na

[@NikhileshSurve]

1 nation 1 language is such a disgusting concept when applied to a multi lingual nation & its communities.

[@samiaarif3008]

My mother tongue is Hindko and 'Chinta' 'Ghundh' are words of my language, but are dying now due to imposed nationalism. My mother tongue is at verge of dying, sadly!

[@imcuteasduc]

The people who migrated from North West frontier to India refer hindko as banwali language ( I wonder if it's the same language or some dialect, thoughts?)

[@samiaarif3008]

@@imcuteasduc Unfortunately, no idea. Dilip Kumar and Kapoors spoke this language as their mother tongue.

[@imcuteasduc]

@@samiaarif3008 yeah, I think it's the same language in that case.

[@imcuteasduc]

@@samiaarif3008 also, unfortunately no attempts have been made in India to do anything for this language... But I don't blame the government ( present or past) on this matter... India already has so many languages and hindi has killed many languages although I would argue that it only killed some dialects and not any major language and no doubt India has done good job in preserving their language... Like Hindi is majority spoken in UP, MP...Bihar... This reminds me of this video.. Wait I'll send that one right now.

[@imcuteasduc]

@@samiaarif3008 kzbin.info/www/bejne/lYOpfJWgaZWMnNE Have you seen this video?

[@bijoydasudiya]

Hindustani in Nastaliq script should be the national language of India. Punjabi on the other hand should be standardised as regards to Shahmukhi script with technical glossary derived from Persian should be the national language of Pakistan. Localism should prevail.

[@memyself9959]

Punjabiyan appu apni Zuban di Tohee kitti te hun mazid jari aeee! Hun ye halat aee ne ke "Punjabi K'aaran chu vi Mukk gayi, Runn Khassam aapas vich Ballan nal ve Urdu vich galk krdeee!" Kise Obad (Stranger) nu vakh ke Gall Urdu vich krdeee, te je kise Maday Bande nal gall krni pay je, te faar Punjabi boldee!!! Main Punjabi aee, te Sharmindaa Vaan ke Sade Wadiyaa ve sanu Aoni Boli di izzay nai sihaaai!!! Sharminda Apni Punjab di mitti tuun 😞😞😞

[@basitawan5959]

Veer tusi kis district de ho Punjab wich daso

[@ManishSharma-ku7ij]

@@basitawan5959 Jhang di zubaan I think

[@justfelix30]

Bhai ab to log urdu bhi chorna shuru hogaye hai sab to angrez mai hi karahai hai baatai or guuftogo to ya mix urdu aur English wo hi haal hai jo punjabi or duusrai zaabano kai saat howa hai merai logo...

[@iyi4322]

I'm very happy to see that punjabi is also used in Pakistani dramas ost.

[@FaridUlIslam-co2ys]

This is to promote punjabi language through the shoulders of urdu which is absolutely an excercise in futility!

[@ronniep9272]

You can have Urdu as a lingua franca which allows all of the different ethnicities to communicate with each but still keep the local language as the official language in each state. That's how it is in India.

[@asmasiddiqi1]

The Indian constitution, in 1950, declared Hindi in Devanagari script to be the official language. Different states use their own languages internally but also use Hindi when the need arises.

[@Anonymous-lw4nq]

Both Hindi and English are official language.

[@lindyswing4368]

We have 22 official languages !

[@anonymouslyopinionated656]

nope... hindi is NOT the official language of the indian nation... it is the language of the central government. there is a distinciton.

[@imcuteasduc]

@@anonymouslyopinionated656 Damn right.

[@ilyprnc]

Southerns states protested and demanded to recognise both Hindi and English as official language,not only Hindi. Coz they don't want to use Hindi as they see it as majority language So they uses English as communication through different states within India And their regional language for affairs within state... That's the reason most of the Indians are forced to study everything in English as it's only language by use of which we can keep india together ...

[@rifatzubair490]

Hmm sab subject english ma hai aur national language urdu hai

[@anwarshahid1]

جو آصف نے بات کہی وہی محمد علی جناح نے نے بھی کہا تھی کہ کسی قوم کی ایک زبان ہوتی ہے اس لئے اردو کو بطور قومی زبان اپنایا گیا ۔ساتھ ہی 1948 میں ٹھیک اسی وقت انہوں نے یہ بھی کہا تھا کہ بنگا لی مشرقی بنگال میں اپنے لئے جو بھی زبان اپنانا چاہیں وہ ان کا حق ہے۔۔۔لہزا یہ کہنا کہ بنگالی کے خلاف کاروائ کی گئ درست موم۔نہیں ہوتا۔۔۔اور نہ ہی یہ بیان کہ علاقائ زبانوں کو نظر انداز کیا گیا۔۔۔۔ہاں یہ ضرور کہا جا سکتا ہے کہ قائد اعظم کی وفات کے بعد یہ حق سندھیوں کو نہیں دیا گیا حالانکہ وہ قیام۔پاکستان سے قبل جب سندھ بمبئی پریزیڈنسی کا حصہ تھا حکومت کی اس تجویز کو رد کر کے کہ اردو کو بطور ذریعہ تعلیم اپنایا جائے سندھی زبان کو ذریعہ تعلیم اور صوبائی زبان کے طور پر اختیار کر چکے تھے ۔انہوں نے اردو کو ذریعہ تعلیم بنانے سے اس لئے اتفاق نہیں کیا تھا کہ اس سے ( بمبئ پریزیڈنسیی) میں ہندوؤں کو مسلمانوں پر فو قیت حاصل ہو جائے گی۔۔۔۔پنجاب سرحد اور بلوچستان کا یہ مسئلہ نہیں تھا اس لئے انہوں نے اردو کو بطور ذریعہ تعلیم اختیار کر لیا تھا۔۔۔اگر میرے اس بیان میں تصحیح کی ضرورت ہو تو اس آگاہ فرمائیں ورنہ اپنے بیان میں تصحیح کریں اور اسے بار بار نشر فرمائیں

[@salimalvi5178]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/b5rVppWmls2MetE

[@salimalvi5178]

@ExMuslim Pakistani Whatever little progress Bangla MohMaddens are making is because of keeping few native roots intact, eg, Bangali language, Bangali ancestral history. But Islamic Al Kida might start doing lot of khujli in their MohMads which might destroy them by little effort by ISI & or Anglos. Pushing 4 -5 crore MohMaddens in India is also helping Bangladesh. For peace & progress Islam has to be driven out of subcontinent

[@abhinav5534]

"What does being a Pakistani mean? .....Not being an Indian." - Destruction came your way with this mentality. This is something you said during the podcast. Blew my mind! For not being an Indian - you'd have to disown Indian culture, script & language. Everything that is related to this subcontinent. Steadily disowned. Baba Bulley Shah, Baba Farid, Shahbaz Qalandar, and many others were indigenous to our subcontinent. Preached about tolerance, civility, and kindness - Sindhi & Punjabi Sufi/Muslim Saints whom I highly admire. I don't read much but whatever songs I listen to - are all renditions of their poetry. It's beautiful.

[@abhinav5534]

And Baccha Khan, A solid Pashtoon. My god! Someone who I admire more than Gandhi.

[@mohdbilalabbasi]

Being an Indian also meant believing in caste system and the practice of sati and idolatry. This had the most profound effect on Pakistani psyche that religion emerged as such a strong force that people are ready even to disown all this culture and stuff... Bulleh Shah, Bhittai and other Sufis are highly revered in Pakistan so we don't disown them but we certainly disown Sanskrit which is regarded as a Hindu and pagan language.

[@abhinav5534]

@@mohdbilalabbasi This is exactly what I am talking about. What does the culture, language, or script have anything to do with religion? Faith doesn't adhere to such things. It is just shocking to see that words like 'Pagan' or 'Idolatry' are still in use. - they're absolutely derogatory in nature. Caste System & Sati - were undoubtedly inhumane practices. Sati is abolished. Unfortunately, Dalits still face horrible prejudice in present-day India. But please don't tell me that the Islamic world is spotless. Sunni-Shia/Wahabi-Berelvi-Deobandi - these conflicts were extremely violent too. My point being, disowning culture & language does not really help it at all. It just doesn't make sense.

[@mohdbilalabbasi]

@@abhinav5534 When religion becomes a dominant factor in shaping identity than all other things take a backseat. I don't say Islam is perfect or anything as I also criticize many of its practices but on the outside Islam is an egalitarian religion while Hinduism is strictly varna based. Please explain what do you even mean by culture which we have lost? We haven't disowned any language, as we love our language Urdu which has been around for quite a long time and regional languages such as Pashto, Punjabi and Sindhi etc are also loved and spoken here in Pakistan. Of course for monetary purposes we have to learn English as it is the language of science, technology and Internet.

[@abhinav5534]

@@mohdbilalabbasi Varna Based? Let me educate you a bit about Sanatan Dharma. Yes, the Caste system exists and was ruthlessly used to gain political and social dominance by the brahmins at some point in time. I condemn it! The govt. has given several benefits to the Dalit communities as an effort to uplift them. BUT that does not define our religion. After this episode of castism, it leads to the advent of many (pre-existing & new) other religions that followed Vedas but did not involve in castism. Like Jains, Ligayats, Buddhists Etc. There are more versions of Sanatan Dharma than one could simply imagine. Faith is personal. 7 billion people, 7 billion religions. Simple. If you're still stuck on the language problem of Pakistan, I don't know what you understood from this entire podcast and the clip above especially. Quoting Shehzad - should hopefully answer your question - "If we existed happily with each other, communicated freely, language evolved from region to region, if you go from Karachi to Lahore, you will see Sindhi evolve into Saraiki which would evolve into Punjabi with people understanding each other quite perfectly. The idea that we needed a language other than our own (atleast for locals in Punjab, Sindh, KPK and Baloch) to communicate with each other is foolish. India has no national language." I'd like to thank you for being patient with me. Highly appreciated.

[@ZulqarnaynAwan]

اس ساری لا حاصل بحث کو سننے کے بعد میں بھارت کے ایک مشہور شاعر و گیت نگار سمپورن سنگھ کالرا عرف گلزار صاحب کا ایک جملہ پیش کرنا چاہوں گا۔ اردو کسی کی مادری زبان نہیں مگر آج اردو کے پاس ایک پورا ملک ہے۔۔۔۔ میرا خیال ہے کہ گلزار صاحب یہ جملہ تمام اردو مخالفین کا منہ بند کرنے کے لیے کافی ہے

[@PriyankaSharma-cw2jb]

Lol ,urdu is spoken by minorities in india

[@arizakram6517]

It's actually propaganda video

[@diplomaticdiary9230]

@@arizakram6517 Whose propaganda? Of those poor ppl unable to speak Urdu?

[@culinarytales21]

Same thing is now happening in lndia. Hindi is being imposed on the South lndia

[@gollum7005]

How

[@Mr.-AJ]

​@@gollum7005Only Hindi is promoted by Union Gov.

[@armaanandalia7338]

Pakistani punjabio ki psychology utni develop nahi hui hai ki vo samajh sake ki... Punjabi un ke liye kaya honi chaiye..... Jab samjh jayege... Phir vo use pareh ge bhi or pyar bhi kare ge..... 🌺🙏

[@Lyallpuriya]

So if you know so much about Punjabis and their "psychology" then why don't you are speaking in Punjabi yourself?

[@armaanandalia7338]

@@Lyallpuriya o asi tan india ch bolde parde likhde punjabi vich aa tuhnu tan punjabi likni parni vi nahi andi 🤣🤣

[@Lyallpuriya]

@@armaanandalia7338 Who told you that I can't read and write in Punjabi? If I spoke with you in my native Punjabi then you will barely understand a single word. For you guys, Punjabi only means 'Chak De Phatte', 'Balle Balle', 'Shawa Shawa'. Punjabi is a vast language and you guys won't understand our Pakistani Punjabi dialects which are literally in hundreds if not in thousands.

[@armaanandalia7338]

@@Lyallpuriya tuhade kol balle vi nahi hundi..... Punjabi language sirf india ne hi promote kiti hai tusi Urdustan banaya punjabi nu 😆😆😆

[@Lyallpuriya]

@@armaanandalia7338Just random baseless claims and nothing more. You can claim whatever you want. India didn't promote Punjabi language! If you loved Punjabi language so much and cared about Punjabiyat then you shouldn't have divided East Punjab into three states based on religion. You guys were the one who started claiming that Punjabi is a Sikh language and the Hindus living in Himachal and Haryana are not real Punjabis. Your government even classified them as mere dialects of Hindi. Secondly, we choose Urdu as a bridge language to communicate with diverse populations of our country. Urdu serves the role of _lingua franca_ for our multiethnic and multilingual country. It's our choice, we did that in our country. Why is this a big issue for your people? Did we ever objected that why India made Hindi their official language? No, then you guys should also mind your own business.

[@__Man__]

Pakistan should have 3 languages program: regional, national and global. Regional is in standardised language in every region, national is for inter-ethnic communication and domestic business purpose, global is for international relation purpose. So like in Punjab, the people will have Punjabi as regional, Urdu as national and English as global. In KPK, people will have Pashto as regional, Urdu as national and English as global. In Sindh, people will have Sindhi as regional, Urdu as national and English as global and so on. But the problem is like in Balochistan, in Balochistan there are 3 local languages, Baloch, Brahui and Dehwari Persian, may be it can be reconfigured next time. So with that, the regional languages do not die

[@nfazal4065]

ھم بھی ہیں تیرے دیوانوں مین

[@shashankethane]

Make a different channel Shehzad

[@shashankethane]

@@ThePakistanExperience ok then I'll watch the playlist :D

[@Lyallpuriya]

Is this the level of intellectualism among you "leftists"?

[@armaanandalia7338]

Punjabi lingu Franco ban sakti thi Pakistan main

[@Lyallpuriya]

So you want to impose Punjabi on Pashtuns, Sindhis and Baloch? That's fascism!

[@armaanandalia7338]

@@Lyallpuriya urdu ko sar pe bitha sakte ho... Punjabi se nafrat

[@Lyallpuriya]

@@armaanandalia7338 Did I say that I hate Punjabi? I am Punjabi myself and I am proud of my Punjabi heritage. I don't need to prove it to anyone. My question was that 47% of Pakistanis are not Punjabis and they don't speak Punjabi so why should we impose it on other non-Punjabi Pakistani citizens. I don't know why you said that Punjabi could become _lingua franca_ of Pakistan when Urdu and English are already doing that job.

[@PriyankaSharma-cw2jb]

@@Lyallpuriya gadha , Punjabi sindhi almost shimilar,Punjabi was mother tongue of more than 50%pakistani so instead of urdu ,it should be official language

[@Lyallpuriya]

@@PriyankaSharma-cw2jb Stfu Pajeet! You are an Indian so have no idea about these languages. Punjabi and Sindhi are not "almost" similar. Both languages are part of the northwestern branch of the Indo-Aryan languages and both of them are descended from the Shauraseni Prakrit. But that doesn't mean both languages are similar. English and German are both basically part of the Germanic language family. That doesn't make them similar in any way.

[@salikmuhammad3946]

The most oppressive towards the Bengalis was BHUTTO. So I guess the blame falls on the Sindhi party as well

[@MoizMalik]

That was a political issue NOT an ethnic issue. Was Sindhi imposed on Bengalis?? No Sindhi Nathionalist wanted this to happen. But what about the Nawabs of UP/Bihar? They wanted to impose urdu on everyone including Bengalis. Stop with sugarcoating Urdu's enforcement.

[@FaridUlIslam-co2ys]

How could bangla be madeh national language when it was not understood at all in west pakistan while urdu was understood and also was spoken by bengalis too now look even after fifty years of Bangladesh where Urdu ceases to exist anymore is still being understood and spoken why? Because this language has a very simple easy and understandable sounds of its vocabulary and its composition in the form of words and sentences that despite being declared as the most unwanted most disliked still has inroads amongst Bangladeshis through pakistani drama industry and indian films! Keep lamenting for the languages those are absolutely incapable of attaining this status what urdu enjoyes in the entire subcontinent!

[@muhammadaliclay8976]

Urdu became the language of muslims when it became the language in which shah waliullah started writing in it..and then DAR AL ULOOM DEOBAND STARTED...this is the cause that faiz wrote his poetry in urdu and not punjabi and also many other poets.. iqbal also wrote in urdu and farsi and not punjabi.

[@osamaanees8406]

People don't care what few random people wrote in what language. A random Muslim guy writing in Urdu doesn't make that language Islamic.

[@teetamalangi635]

Shehzad just cant stop strawmanning. I studied Pak studies for 10 years (soShaL SciEnce)---and literally never once we were taught that Urdu became national language of Pakistan because it was "lingua franca"....Urdu became national language precisely because it wasn't the lingua franca. It was associated with Muslim identity and was chose as a neutral language of Pakistan (a state based on Muslim identity). If not Urdu, then what? Punjab? Sindhi? It would have created resentment since language of one province would have been imposed onto the rest. This would have been unfair. Hence, a neutral language (Urdu) was chose for all of Pakistan---whether Punjab, Sindh, Pashto etc. The regional languages are still thriving in Pakistan with tens of millions of Sindhi, Punjabi, Pashto speakers etc. A modern nation-state needs a common language so diverse groups of people can communicate with each other. Urdu was the best language for Pakistan at that time for reasons explained above.

[@abhinav5534]

You're trying to imply that these states didn't inter-communicate at all before introducing Urdu in Pakistan. Ridiculous. Just quoting him again so that you read it again. "If we existed happily with each other, communicated freely, language evolved from region to region, if you go from Karachi to Lahore, you will see Sindhi evolve into Saraiki which would evolve into Punjabi with people understanding each other quite perfectly. In 2021, with 74 years of promoting Urdu, I would argue that still most Pakistanis do not speak or understand it. People in androon Lahore struggle with Urdu, let alone interior Punjab. The idea that we needed a language other than our own (atleast for locals in Punjab, Sindh, KPK and Baloch) to communicate with each other is foolish. India has no national language."

[@teetamalangi635]

@@abhinav5534 Lol, unlike Shehzad....I CAN speak Sairaiki and Punjabi fluently. And no, bar few words---if I spoke Sairaiki fluently with a Punjabi person from North Punjab (My couins from Sialkot fluent in Punjabi for example)---they would not understand even 3 sentences. And yes, the people of these regions (Sindh, Punjab, KPK etc) did NOT inter-communicate with each other at the level and scale that happens in a modern post-WWII state. Are you seriously gonna tell me that English being the 'global language' did not have any impact on trade, culture, and global integration of ideas? Afterall---China, Europe, Arabia, and India also 'inter-communicated' with each other prior to the rise of English, no? :) See, this argument doesn't work. A modern state *REQUIRES* a unifying language....especially a state like Pakistan or Germany or Turkey etc. We arent a behemoth like india where states are SO large within themselves that they almost create a self-sustaining culture+economic+political sphere. For us, having a national language was essential and Urdu was the most appropriate/neutral choice for that....hence it was chosen. And no, Shehzad is again wrong. People in Pakistan understand and communicate in Urdu easily....its ubiquitous. The idea that "most Pakistanis do not understand Urdu" is laughably wrong. They might not speak it regularly, sure, but they do understand it. I doubt Shehzad even speaks or understands any other language bar Urdu (and English). I doubt he has lived across small cities in interior Sindh or Punjab or KPK. I have (thanks to my dad's service job that required him to move every three years or so). I doubt he really knows much about Pakistan outside his very small Karachi-Hyderbad urbanite bubble, with due respect ofc.

[@teetamalangi635]

@@ThePakistanExperience Dude, you havent uncovered some secret about how colonization solidified previously fluid identities in the subcontinent into rigid political identities. Anyone with basic reading on history knows that. But its irrelevant whether Urdu-Hindi split had colonial history---the point is, by 1947, it was SOLIDIFIED into a political identity of sorts---and vast majority of Muslims AND Hindus saw Urdu with Persian script as a language 'of Muslims' (losely speaking). Nobody is arguing whether it was natural or pushed up by colocalization. So it made absolutely perfect sense to choose a *neutral* language (Urdu) that was also seen as the language of Muslims when it came to choosing the national language of a newly formed Muslim state. Choosing any other language as the national language of Pakistan would be way more colonial in a sense---since you'd be imposing language of one major group onto all other major groups in Pakistan. It was way more just to have a neutal 'Muslim' language for all major linguistic groups alike. Its literally common sense. Cant do much if you refuse to see it

[@teetamalangi635]

@@ThePakistanExperience Google ko choro, phlay thora less emotional ho k parh to lo bhai k baat kya ho rahi hai lol. My point about straw-manning was you saying "humain parhatay hain Urdu was made national language bc it was Lingua Franca"....THIS is a strawman. Literally nobody makes this argument. No govt book ever made this lingua franca argument in Punjab+KPK where I attended various schools for over a decade. You are literally 'straw-manning' the actual argument made for Urdu in our books (books which I'm sure you haven't really read beyond the trite one-liner attacks on SoShal ScieNce and Mutaliya-e-Pakistan lmao). Urdu was chosen national language for the reasons I mentioned above in my comments (and rightfully so. Urdu was the best possible choice for a national language of Pakistan). And example of india is a particularly bad one. I already dealt with it above. Pakistan is not india---in terms of organization, size, and demographics---Pakistan is more like Germany or Turkey--a large state sure but not a behemoth like india where states can act independently functioning mini-countries on their own. Overwhelming majority of states like Pakistan in terms of size and demographics have a national language. Not because of some colonial baggage but because its literally a necessity of modern states to have a unifying language.

[@sahyl3327]

@@ThePakistanExperience Let me jump into this conversation as a Maldivian. We in our country don't have different ethnicities, cultures or different languages that's our strength which unite Maldivians as a peaceful Muslim country. All Maldivians speak "Dhivehi" as a language, from South to North Maldives there's slightly difference in dialect. Our national language which is same like urdu mix of Persian, Arabic words and writing alphabets are also similar to Arabic alphabet. But the best thing about having a national language is it unite us all. Doesn't mean native to particular dialects shouldn't speak their dialects. They do speak. Aslo In Pakistan province language should be spoken. But once you prioritise particular group or native dialect as the national language, rest will start to clash as nobody wants to be inferior to other. The jealously is so strong that it starts to divide people. In my opinion Urdu will be the best option as a national language for Pakistan. As it doesn't represent any province but Muslims. Pakistan is the only country have created in the name of Islam. "United we stand, divided we fall" learn from your own experience. East Pakistan now is Bangladesh.

[@AbdulKareem-cj1yv]

Urdu he ke waja sa hum sab apas ma batchet karty hen ager urdu sa nafrat karo gay to yad rkhna ya mulak dosry din 4 hason ma tot jay ga

[@FaridUlIslam-co2ys]

This discussion is nothing but having a hidden jealousy for urdu language this is a psychological problem of all non urdu speakings!