Watchmen by Alan Moore and Dave Gibbons

[@jerr3d]

The Watchmen run had finished before I started it. I decided to give it a try and bought the first issue only. The next day I was back at my comic book store and bought the next two issues. The next day I was back at my comic book store and bought the rest of them. I re-read it every few years. You have my sympathy having to wait a whole year to read it all! Thanks.

[@bizarrebraincomics7819]

I agree whole heartedly. The movie had the superior ending and when I eventually cover it on my channel I will say so as well. Good work.

[@stews9]

ROAR-shock.

[@michaelk.vaughan8617]

Thanks.

[@theramblingreviewer5150]

Awesome video! I look forward to Steve's review of this! This definitely needs a reread.

[@paulstrathdee]

Watchmen was a true landmark in comic book history.

[@genemcn3579]

I remember that after this, so many comics tried to get ''dark,'' with the Batman ''DEATH IN THE FAMILY'' being a good example.

[@laurels7892]

I've noticed that Roger isn't participating in this Comic Book Wednesday. I hope he's not out making random people disappear. BTW nice review!

[@MarshOakDojoTimPruitt]

thanks

[@scifibookery]

Roar-Shack haha Watchmen is amazing. Definitely a masterpiece.

[@OrangeGeemer]

Just read this for the first time a couple of months ago. I remember being confuse by the first appearance of the pirate novel; the newspaper guy was talking, the kid was reading, the novel text was showing, things happen around them... it was too much in too few panels and I didn't like it. But then... then Mr. Moore shows the sex scene with multiple versions of Dr. Manhattan and I really get Laurie's feelings, she was overwhelm, annoyed, mad, offended and so on, because it was too much. The previous page prepared me exactly the right way to empathize with Laurie, that's when I got the hype for this comic book, is not just the story, is the story telling that sets Watchmen apart.

[@snowysnowyriver]

I agree with everything you say about Watchmen....from the fact that it is a work of art to the odd ending. As you rightly say, it changed everything. It not only deconstructed the whole concept of what a superhero is, it did so through the lens of reality. I am always surprised when people don't know about Watchmen because of the movie! If it had remained a comic/graphic novel, I could understand that. But the movie was also a ground-breaker which won three Saturns. I must admit I approached the film with some trepidation but (for me personally) need not have worried. Zack Snyder did as good a job with Watchmen as he did with 300. 300 is an absolute masterpiece of graphic novel adaption in my very humble opinion.

[@d.r.martin6301]

I was reviewing science fiction and fantasy for the Minneapolis paper and this was the first graphic novel I covered. And this thing was a revelation; as deserving of adulation as the great literary SF writers (Dick, Vonnegut, Ballard, Lem, etc.). Still have my review copy. Admire the movie, as well. Just watched it again a few weeks ago. The recent series with Regina King was also brilliant; a riveting rebooting of that superheroic universe, rooted in the Tulsa race massacre.

[@sgtearache5303]

First, say the word "roar." Then, say the word "shack." Profit! 😃 Back when it first arrived, many comics fans (including myself) sort of latched onto Watchmen as proof that comics could be "SERIUS LITRA-CHEWER." Nowadays, I couldn't care less about that. Watchmen is a very interesting book no doubt, and pretty gorund-breaking in some ways...but I have a problem with the idea that a book could be the "greatest of it's form" while also having a completely derivative (and not even great) climax.

[@genemcn3579]

The art works for this the way the art did not work for From Hell.

[@MagusMarquillin]

I love Watchmen. First read it 2 years ago, I already really liked the movie but this "comic" art form really hit the themes and messages so much harder. It's really something we should read be able to pause and think and stare at those amazing panels, rather then be distracted by Snyder's pretty cinema. I thought the last issue was inspired though, I would not change anything. First I heard it was ripped off from an Outer Limits episode (I've actually never watched it 🤭) but I don't think knowing that would change anything for me, great art often steals and transcends - and it can't be _exactly_ the same the set up is already too unique. The TV show was really great writing IMO, unless you think writing a sequel to Moore is automatically blasphemy it's worth giving a shot. I'm also interested to try Identity Crisis, countdown, and however DC wrote it's way out of it's new 52 fiasco - I'll always regard Watchmen as it's own thing primarily (like I do with Kubrics 2001 even though I love Peter Hyams 2010).

[@TH3F4LC0Nx]

"Never compromise. Not even in the face of Armageddon." I know Rorschach is everything Alan Moore doesn't find heroic but dang did he give him some awesome lines. XD

[@michaelk.vaughan8617]

True.

[@ThisJustInBookTube]

Great overview of this classic work! That ending was really outta left field. The TV show is great though. If you haven’t seen it, check it out.

[@michaelk.vaughan8617]

I’ll see it one of these days.

[@DDB168]

Even I've read this ! I quite liked the movie but I saw it before I read the comic. And the HBO series was great too, very clever. Well worth your time.

[@vilstef6988]

Aside from that, Mrs Lincoln, did you enjoy the play?

[@DanSentinel]

I always assumed the giant squid finale was a revisionist take on Starro, the giant space starfish from the sixties JLA comics that Moore read as a kid.

[@Uppernorwood976]

I agree this absolutely deserves its reputation. The structure and artwork is very clever and the atmosphere throughout is great. The ending is flat and a bit stupid, but I also think the movie ending is equally implausible. The idea is good, but the execution isn’t believable.

[@DZIGIN]

I love the movie,respect graphic novel 🤩

[@sgriffin9960]

Doesn't everyone have this in their library? Kind of like that Peter Frampton album in the '70s. Everyone had it! 😂 It's been 14 years since I've read this, so if I can find my copy I think I'll give it a reread!

[@michaelk.vaughan8617]

Ha! Yes, that Frampton album!

[@thegkbc4510]

you two should read and review Asterious Polyp, a darn near perfect creation by David Mazzucchelli begging on bended knee

[@michaelk.vaughan8617]

Okay, I obviously need to read that.

[@HeyYallListenUp]

I recently reread this, and I largely agree with you. The art work is amazing in it. It is a flawed story, but well worth reading.

[@kulwinderkuls8560]

I kinda like the film and it's ending.

[@bigaldoesbooktube1097]

Hate to be boring but I agree. This is my favourite Comic book. A book that I think should be considered a literary classic. There I said it 🫢.

[@michaelk.vaughan8617]

Many agree with you.

[@BookBlather]

I have multiple versions of this 😊

[@michaelk.vaughan8617]

I only have this old trade paperback for some reason.

[@glockensig]

Didn't stick the landing, eh!?

[@michaelk.vaughan8617]

Definitely not.

[@charliedogg7683]

Michael, I don't use the word "masterpiece" lightly but I would apply it to Watchmen thanks to its intricate plot, varied but still recognisable characters, Moore's vision of this alternate Earth, Gibbons' art and Higgins' colours which match it so well, the political undertones, the little things like how smoking develops slightly differently to on our Earth..... I also read it as each issue was released and felt how it built in complexity and impact. By the way, Rorschach is pronounced "raw shark". The ending didn't bother me as much as it clearly bothers you but I did feel let down. However, after finishing #12 I thought back to all the elements of Watchmen that we're still floating around in my brain and realised that the successes far outweighed the failed aspects. I'd never made the connection with "Identity Crisis" before; that series disturbed me though because of the brutality visited on characters like Sue Dibney and Blue Beetle, who had always been written in a more humorous tone. It jarred so much that the storyline ultimately didn't work for me. A great wrap-up of Watchmen - may I suggest another Moore classic, The Killing Joke, for a future Comic Book Wednesday?

[@michaelk.vaughan8617]

We will definitely be getting to Killing Joke.

[@troytradup]

My vote for the best would be another graphic novel you introduced me to -- Saga! Or does that only count as comics?

[@michaelk.vaughan8617]

I think it definitely counts!

[@bigaldoesbooktube1097]

Alan Moore was not too far removed from the norm in UK comics at the time and this was less of a departure than it was in US comics. Tone wise UK comics like 2000AD (which he has worked on) were heading in this direction already and I think Moore just brought this to the fore. Also (I know I’m rambling) but the show was excellent and stayed with the ending in the comic.

[@michaelk.vaughan8617]

That’s true. The only UK comics I could get here as a kid were Judge Dredd reprints.

[@bigaldoesbooktube1097]

That’s a shame but I’m not knocking Dredd.

[@bookssongsandothermagic]

Great review and I love the book too. I agree that the ending isn’t as good as the rest of it. It’s inevitable that it would influence the mainstream, of course.

[@supernova1969]

Hello Michael Hello. Some critics think that MAUS is the greatest graphic novel. Some others regard Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow? It could be V for Vendetta.

[@michaelk.vaughan8617]

All good choices!

[@ellesse3862]

Yeah .. I wish it wasn't as popular too, should have remained forever in its own reality, no prequels, no sequels, and no crosspollunation with other universes. If there was meant to be more, the original creators would have made more, its a one off .. not a franchise. Everytime DC cant keep their fingers off Watchmen, it diminishes what was.. eventually we'll all loathe it from overexposure and lackluster hacks attempting to immortalise themselves through association. Watchmen is good but its legacy is toxic permeating what was once a cleaner more heroic industry, the age of fun comics is over, this genie will never go back in the bottle.

[@craigpartain]

I've ignored all of the comic sequels, but the HBO series has a lot going for it. It's more tonally faithful to the comic than the Snyder film was. Though it does double down on the squid ending.

[@stews9]

Gotta wonder if the Great Shaman Alan Moore wasn't subverting expectations on purpose to make a meta-point, disappointing everyone to shove it in your face. It's possible. He's canny.

[@michaelk.vaughan8617]

He is.

[@UsernameyMcUsernameFace]

For my money, MAUS is the greatest graphic novel ever created, though Watchmen does make a more interesting use of the medium I suppose.

[@adrianpetyt9167]

In the text itself, the detective mishears the name Rorschach as the phrase "raw shark", if that helps in the pronunciation.

[@michaelk.vaughan8617]

Thanks. I still can’t pronounce it.

[@my88110]

the decision to have dr manhattan kill Rorschach at the end was really where it fell apart for me. didnt seem like anyone would believe rorschach, didint even seem like something dr manhattan’s character would do seeing how indifferent to life he’d become; and if he was leaving earth anyway, why would he care if the entire plan came apart, seemed like something adrian himself would have foreseen, let alone the clairvoyant dr manhattan… the book is still a masterpiece among superhero comics though, and i still love the squid; the alien squid was a great drawing

[@michaelk.vaughan8617]

I have to admit, it was well drawn.

[@mathewguglielmi8451]

Michael, it would be interesting to see you review Squadron Supreme, written by Mark Grunewald as a 12 part miniseries, which pre dates Watchmen, as it depicts superheroes as if they exist in a realistic setting. The characters in Squadron Supreme are analogues for the Justice League. Alan Moore has now disavowed the comic book industry, superheroes especially, and now devotes himself to writing prose fiction. It's a shame how Watchmen influenced the comic book industry to publish 'grim and gritty' stories rather than advance the narrative form.

[@michaelk.vaughan8617]

I read Squadron Supreme decades ago and really liked it. I need to read that again.

[@freelivefree7221]

I don't really think the ending sucked, but it was probably not the strongest part. For me, it vies with Astro City as the best superhero comic. (Well, Will Eisner's The Spirit is also a contender, but I could make an argument that the Spirit isn't really a superhero.) Watchmen was the deconstruction of the superhero; Astro City was the reconstruction. It is idealistic but with more deep characterization and world building. Both series have their ups and downs, but both are unequal to any other superhero story. Frank Miller's Dark Knight Returns was great, but his sequels were awful. You can sort of see him just run out of talent on The Dark Knight Strikes Again.

[@michaelk.vaughan8617]

So sadly true.

[@davidadams6863]

Please review Judge Dredd America

[@michaelk.vaughan8617]

Good idea!

[@Yoko.Kurama]

In this book there a a bunch of actual book sections without picture. Are these skippable? I’d rather not read it

[@michaelk.vaughan8617]

Well, yeah, you can skip them f you want.

[@frankmorlock9134]

Slightly off topic. Pete Beard who probably knows more about the history of illustration in books and magazines than anyone on the planet has just published a video on Pulp Part which, knowing your interest, I've decided to share with you. Here's the site. kzbin.info/www/bejne/rInQnnl4m56UbKc

[@michaelk.vaughan8617]

Thanks Frank! I appreciate it!

[@Kikilang60]

I wrote an embarrassing comment, and I couldn't erase it until now. Ha, you will never know what I wrote.

[@MagusMarquillin]

Too late, I read it. Yeah it was a bit hard to decipher, though you seemed to be talking some interesting points. Maybe it just needed a good edit?

[@pauljthacker]

I can imagine waiting a long time for a series to complete, and then the ending is terrible. I watched Game of Thrones.

[@michaelk.vaughan8617]

Yes! Exactly!

[@luciferfernandez7094]

Little confession: I don’t get Moby Dick. I know what it is about since I saw several film and tv adaptations, maybe a Classic Illustrated and everybody knows about Ahab’s dark obsession with that whale. The plot is great, I may say that. Got the book some 15 years ago and I couldn’t pass the writing style - never went beyond the first 20 pages. The writing style is part of the thing, of whatever was in Melville’s head, so - no, I didn’t get Moby Dick and I don’t discuss Moby Dick. Watchmen, the comic book usually sold as a graphic novel, is a masterpiece and I hate to talk about it because pedantic me usually will say to people who like the movie, or the prequels, or the series, or who think it’s only a deconstruction of superheroes, or Alan Moore this or that that they don’t get it ( I really, really hate to say that). Nowadays is worse talking about Watchmen, because most people find the nine panel grid boring and they really don’t read it, they go for the movie, and the movie didn’t get it. The comic is on par with Dr. Strangelove: it’s about how the human species has developed it’s own means of destruction and nominally speaking, humankind is destructive and sucks - but, individual human beings, with their pain, emotions, experiences and specially the capacity to love are little miracles worth saving. It has other layers of meaning that, unfortunately most comic book readers miss because it’s “superhero deconstruction” and its “realistic” (which is as realistic as any decent science fiction story). In a way, the story has character stereotypes who aren’t mature enough to understand what actual power is about, like, they don’t get it (until the end). I disagree about the ending, in a way Watchmen is also about the experience of reading comic books (hence there’s no point to the film) so the ending it’s all a deux ex machina going wrong for the characters and the “realistic” heroes have to deal with either grey or black and white while the reader has to deal with “oh, this is not real”. I think the ending of the movie rendered the whole story meaningless - Doc Manhattan was American, it doesn’t matter if he destroyed New York, in a couple of weeks after lots of finger pointing you’d still get to a nuclear lockdown, again. In the comic it’s up to you if the world will find and believe the truth. About it’s influence on superhero stuff Gibbons and Moore have said ad nauseam “that’s what not what we meant” and also regret the grittiness it gave to the genre. The influence also affected Marvel comics since Wolverine, Cable, The Punisher became their flagship characters because, well, they are dark and gritty. Editors and creators also didn’t get it. Good call about authorship: the authors are Alan Moore, Dave Gibbons and John Higgins. If you go behind the scenes., the colorist had also some input, both Gibbons and Moore choose him specifically for a reason. You change one of those names, well, you don’t get Watchmen.

[@michaelk.vaughan8617]

I should not have left the colorist out. I seldom think of them because I can’t see colors.

[@tonygriego6382]

Never was a big fan of this one either, though I'll admit, Rorschach stole the show for me. "But doctor the man said, I am the great clown Pagliacci."

[@jamesholder13]

I've never liked Watchmen.

[@konstantinos-6-6-6-8]

Me neither, couldn’t get through it. Don’t know why.

[@jamesl4857]

WATCHMEN, while a decent comic, is rife with problems. The ending stunk and ripped off THE OUTER LIMITS, as Michael pointed out. That ruined the entire series for me. I'm one of those that read it when it first came out. I didn't really like the movie or TV show, either. Yet, I still love Alan Moore. I prefer his SWAMP THING, SUPERMAN, and V FOR VENDETTA, though. Sincerely, James Heath Lantz Freelance Writer Staff Writer for BACK ISSUE magazine 2021 Eisner Award nominee, 2019 winner, "Best Comics-Related Periodical/Journalism"

[@michaelk.vaughan8617]

Thanks!

[@jamesl4857]

@@michaelk.vaughan8617 You're welcome. Dave Gibbons' art is amazing in WATCHMEN. I had the pleasure of interviewing him for an article on BATMAN VERSUS PREDATOR comic Gibbons wrote. He was one of the nicest people to ever interview. Sincerely, James Heath Lantz Freelance Writer Staff Writer for BACK ISSUE magazine 2021 Eisner Award nominee, 2019 winner, "Best Comics-Related Periodical/Journalism"