Water Heater Buying Guide 2022 - Energy Star rating, price, fuel, rebates, etc.

[@Domme857]

I bought this water heater kzbin.infoUgkx8G49mV71sAzUl9shXyLW-r3XgHH9EVh1 for use in my bus conversion. I installed it under my kitchen sink and it is fed by a high efficiency on-demand LP water heater. It is both a backup hot water source as well as a water saving device since we have hot water on demand rather than having to wait for the gas on demand water heater to finish its ignition cycle. I decided on this water heater due to the fact that it only draws 1300watts when it's ON instead of the 1500 watts that most Water heaters this size draw. In an RV a couple hundred watts can be a big deal. With very low standby losses, I don't have to worry about excessive power consumption. When propane is not available for our gas water heater, in conjunction with our low flow shower head there is enough hot water available to shower, albeit we won't be taking "hotel showers." Also very happy with the recovery rate of this water heater. Granted, it is quite small, but it does exactly what we need it to do.

[@ZombieLinux]

I've got a walkout basement with a southern exposure outside of Atlanta. My 80 gal rheem has replaced the basement dehumidifier AND the window AC unit I had for the summers, while also replacing the electric hot water heater. I've replaced three pieces of equipment with one, and the unit has paid for itself in about 8 months. Without any rebates at all. Your video from 10 years ago was the inspiration to switch, which we did in 2020 (didn't hurt the old tank was 17 years old...)

[@treewright6610]

Any issues with noise from the water heater condenser?

[@ZombieLinux]

@@treewright6610 actually yea. It does vibrate pretty wildly. I don’t live in a seismically active area, but I cobbled together my own vibration dampening from the McMaster carr catalog. I’d have to look up what part number it was. After I did that, the fan is the worst offender. I haven’t figured out how to mechanically isolate that yet. It’s in such a compact spot and screwed directly into the sheet metal. Also, don’t hardline it into your plumbing. Use a flexible stainless hose to connect to your copper. It’s fundamental frequency seems to be around 190Hz, so without all that, a low hum permeates the house.

[@ETZepplin]

@@ZombieLinux FWIW the newer models of the Rheems don't move/vibrate at all - that sounds suspect... but the fan/compressor noise is noticeable. I'm an engineer so it's like music to my ears. My wife hasn't mentioned it... so... all good so far :)

[@ednksu]

Did you research it all ambient air temperatures in your application and heating efficiency? Mine would be in my garage which is a kind of dugout setup so the year-round temperature is 55 to 65°, but I would love the dehumidifier side of it. Thanks.

[@ZombieLinux]

@@ednksu I did. It does help that I have some tropical aquariums and a full server rack on the other side of the wall. Obviously, the more heat in the air, the easier time it will have heating water, but the specs I've seen show it working just fine deep into the 40s.

[@dryii]

The instant I installed my Rheem heat pump I noticed a _significant_ difference in my electric usage. I don't think you could make any other change to your home which would produce results like that. I highly recommend it to all my friends.

[@Cstegg]

Same. I installed mine in December and have a power monitor on my circuit It's tracking at 70$ a year for my wife and I compared to 550$ a year on our old no heat pump electric unit.(I run at 140F and my old unit was set to 130F) My garage sits around 72 instead of high 80s... I'm no longer running a dehumidifier either. Initially I didn't run a condensate line and I was filling up a home depot bucket every 2 days.

[@amschind]

Well they also make heat pump clothes dryers which have the added benefit of dehumidifying the incoming are out of proportion to the amount that they heat the air (the same air is warmed by the condenser, flows over the clothes and picks up moisture, flows over the evap coil which condenses the water out of the air and then flows back over the condenser coil to repeat the cycle. If you look at how much power a pure dehumidifier uses vs an AC, you get a sense for the "efficiency" gains that arise from recycling the sensible heat internally (i.e. its a Rankine cycle that doesn't move heat anywhere outside of the machine, so both coils have tiny temperature deltas to work against vs much larger deltas when you're trying to change the temperature of the air). Your overall improvement may not be as much since you're likely using the water heater more than the clothes dryer, but the efficiency gains for a heat pump dryer vs a resistance dryer are actually greater than a heat pump water heater vs a resistance water heater.

[@triaxe-mmb]

Wow, EPA as the sponsor...proof positive that this channel has moved up a into the real big leagues now. Great job @Matt and Team

[@miket5506]

EPA sponsored it with our tax money…so we’re all the sponsor of this one 😎

[@triaxe-mmb]

@@miket5506 lol, good point

[@bsm2001yt]

The EPA takes a good product and makes it worse! Dishwashers without heating elements, Washing machines with little water, and the list goes on. Some call it progress, I call it smoke and mirrors. Why does everything have to have a rebate if it's so great? And why must the taxpayer fund the rebates? Let a product stand on its own merits good or bad.

[@TrogdorBurnin8or]

@@bsm2001yt The version of your suggestion that helps us transition is "Just tax carbon heavily and let the cards fall where they may; The marketplace is smarter than Congress, and can figure out how best to mitigate emissions, once this incentive is in place". Which I'm all in favor of - it's a much more elegant, efficient way of doing things than trying to micromanage appliances. But the government is controlled by antitax fanatics in one party and collaborators with antitax fanatics in the other party, most of whom will die of old age with relatively little climate change in their face, and allowing the EPA to pretend to be a legislature and make tiny incremental changes to industry appears to be the best the collaborators have to offer for the future of the country.

[@Dirty_Dog_Ranch_TX]

Flush the EPA down the toilet... We will ALL be better off!

[@robbarchard]

Matt this is pretty great, but you've missed some absolutely crucial points. For example with your heat pump it matters dramatically whether you are heating or cooling your house. In your hot climate, the tankless actually outperforms what you're saying because it will decrease your cooling load on the house. Heat pumps are amazing. But in my cold climate, I need to heat the air in that space the water-heater is discharging to. So you might have a COP of 3-4, but your furnace for the house is what is actually heating your water and you need run it at the furnace's efficiency somewhere around 90% ( unless you heat your house with a heat pump too, or you had a heat pump water-heater with a evaporator outside of the house. ) Also, when you talked about a dollar of electric in or a dollar of gas in, you're missing that the BTUs a dollar of gas and a dollar of electric can provide are wildly different. In some areas they are comparable, but in my area where I know the rates, a dollar of gas will get you 4X the BTUs as a dollar of electric.

[@juzoli]

Electric heatpump will outperform electric tankless too, in any climate, other than the coldest ones.

[@briancelidonia8258]

Good comment. If I used a heat pump, I was wondering if I would merely be heating my water with my furnace up here in the north. I don't want my laundry area cold, and it seems like the heat pump will suck the hot air out of that area and blow in cold air. So I'm wondering what happens the the total house efficiency in the winter.

[@juzoli]

@@briancelidonia8258 Overall, year-around efficiency matters, not the winter efficiency. The heat loss during the winter is offset by the extra cooling you need anyway during the summer.

[@briancelidonia8258]

@@juzoli I don't have AC. Pretty much l leave my house open all summer. So it would have some benefit in summer with being able to suck heat from the summer air. But also, natural gas prices are relatively low here compared to electricity. So it doesnt feel like the right solution for me.

[@juzoli]

@@briancelidonia8258 Natural gas is low only because you are not paying for the externalities, and other people are paying for it instead. So strictly speaking about your personal budget, gas might indeed be the cheapest option for you. But if you calculate overall long term total costs, then you are left with 2 choices. Use electricity to heat up water directly, which is more efficient if you wanted to heat up that room anyway. Or heat pump is better if it is unheated room, you wanted to cool the room, or you heat and cool it equally throughout the year. It is obviously the most efficient down south where you mostly need cooling, and you have lots of sunshine and solar power.

[@studegator]

We had a tankless water heater for almost 20 years before installing a new one because the original manufacturer sold out and I could not find a pilot light part I needed. Great water heater that always provided almost instant hot water for as long as you wanted. After watching youtube videos about servicing the water line due to calcium or mineral buildup, I actually cut apart the water coil inside the uninstalled unit during replacement and found the lines as clean as a whistle, very surprised as we had never cleaned it!! We have a cheap whole house sediment filter installed on the water line going into the house and I suppose this filtered out any of the mineral products. Due to our experience with the first unit, I purchased a new Navien tankless over a year ago and installed it myself. During the install I added valves to the water lines for easy cleaning if needed. We love our tankless water heater and highly recommend them due to our experience.

[@wmstone3914]

Great video. I have a 65 gallon Raheem hybrid which I mounted high in a garage. This thing is crazy efficient. I use only 3-4kWh per day for a fam of 4 in a 2500sqft house in MD. I run it in pure heat pump mode only. It cools and dehumidifies my garage which is a bonus too. One day I decided to switch to pure electric resistance mode all day to track usage and we used 12kWh vs 4 kWh. This blew my mind… I had no idea. These things crush and besides running a condensate line, it’s easy to set up

[@donaldlee6760]

You sound like a math nerd (a good thing). Did you calculate how many years to reach the break even point of paying more for a hybrid water heater vs a less expensive electric-only water heater?

[@victorvek5227]

@@donaldlee6760 The average price a residential customer in the United States pays for electricity is 13.31 cents per kWh. Applied to his metrics above, at 12kWh (electric mode), he’d spend approximately $583 annually to heat his water. In heat pump only mode, at 3kWh, he’s spending approximately $146 annually to heat his water. That’s a savings of ~ $437 per year by using heat pump only mode on the hybrid. In short, it obviously wouldn’t take long to recoup the extra $ that you’d invest up front.

[@wmstone3914]

@Donald Lee I just checked the app (which is awesome btw) and in the winter so far my average is 3.5 kWh per day. In the summer and fall my average was about 2.5kWh. The winter number increase is due to it becoming less efficient (lol) due to the ambient air being cooler in the winter. I am expecting an over all yearly bill of about $100 vs $480 at 11kWh per day. My electricity costs .12 per kWh. And I got a $800 from my utility company. Total cost of install was $1800 for the unit + $200 to build the 5 ft platform and I moved it from inside to the garage. So it will take me 3.1 years to break even.

[@wmstone3914]

I’d say the only down side is noise. The compressor makes noise. I wouldn’t be too happy if this was in my closet on my main living level. But if it’s in a basement, attic or garage then you are a-ok.

[@donaldlee6760]

@@wmstone3914 - A break even point of 3.1 years is effectively having an investment that returns 23% per year. Over long periods of time stocks tend to return ~10% per year, so that was an incredible deal on your part. If the break even point was 7 years then the effective rate of return would be ~10%, at which point buying the water heater or buying stocks would financially be equivalent from a pure return on investment mindset. Of course being kind to Mother Earth should be part of the purchase decision too. Your deal was even better than this because I didn't back out the cost of having to purchase a regular water heater.

[@pudellvr]

This is our first winter w a Rheem 50 gal Heat Pump Water Heater. Have been watching you for years and chose it because of your prior videos. We live in SC and the heater is in a closet off of garage where our IT equipment is. We leave the door to the garage open because the heater chills the room down to meat locker conditions! We love the amount of hot water! Previously had an 80 gallon standard electric and it couldn’t keep up with our use.

[@davidbraverman1]

I've got the smaller version of that exact unit and it's been great. It's in a small utility closet next to the garage and directly under the attic. I plummed the air intake directly into the attic, so it's pulling in air that is 120-130 degrees already. Then I plummed the cold air out into my garage and added a small fan. Helps to keep the garage cooler in the summer. Also, tracking energy usage and its coming in at 10% of the original electric resistance heater. Crazy energy savings!

[@wilsondavis1958]

OMG I never thought of pulling air from the attic. I have a small closet in the garage where a gas water heater is and I didn’t think it’d have enough ventilation to work! Thanks!!!

[@Austden]

Any ideas on how long the "run" for the intake could be? In a one story home could I run 15+ ft from the unconditioned attic to a basement water heater?

[@davidbraverman1]

I'm not 100% sure but I think so. You can look up the instruction manual and it shows you exactly how long the runs, both intake and exhaust, can be. It's very detailed.@@Austden

[@davidbraverman1]

Yeah, it works great! I actually removed the additional fan, it was unnecessary.@@wilsondavis1958

[@douggibson9084]

Excellent video Matt. Casey on the "Conscientious Builder" was talking about mini splits for heating. Electric heat or electric hot water is the only fuel source we as home owners can subsidize (solar/wind). Where oil or gas will keep increasing in cost. Thanks again Matt.

[@Theconsciousbuilder]

Thanks for the shout out, Doug! Appreciate it. And thanks for all the great content you put out, Matt.

[@jasonbroom7147]

My wife and I wound up replacing our water heater with a model that includes a heat pump, based largely on the information provided in this video. We have been very happy with our reduced energy costs and it's nice having a little A/C ducted out to our garage in the summer. After local and Federal rebates, the model we bought cost us no more than a normal electric water heater would have, but we're looking at saving over $200/yr on our electric bills. This means it will pay for itself in about 3 years and be a bonus every year after that. Complete no-brainer to install one of these, provided you can duct the output so that it's not competing with your heating in the winter.

[@keithsanders3475]

Matt, long time follower, doing an addition in NC. I just installed a climate master geothermal QE series heat pump that has built in “dedicated” water heater. (Not to be confused with a desuperheater). I think a geothermal heat pump water heater beats all your options for efficiency. The water heating is almost free during summer when A/C is on. It has backup elements but I leave the breaker turned off so I only use the heat pump to heat the water.

[@steven7650]

I would love geo but the well cost is out of control. What was yours, I assume 10-30k just for drilling. It's what 500ft/ton of capacity right?

[@jonathanburr9798]

@@steven7650 Not the guy that's getting it put in, so I don't have the full breakdown of the price- and is a Canadian price from Alberta - 60K$ CAD for space and water heating for a bungalow. Yep. The drilling price adds a ton. I still see it as the best option for heating though. I just think maybe the current codes need to make it part of new build foundations, then at least it's an option for the future.

[@markhoffman]

How long does it take to pay back the $60,000?

[@meganwinters5163]

Just be cautious of legionnaires disease when it comes to hot water heaters. Most manufacturers program in a "minimum" duration of resistive heating to completely prevent the possibility of bacterial growth. Otherwise I'm very jealous of your geothermal unit!!! Congrats!

[@keithsanders3475]

@@meganwinters5163 The heat pump keeps my water at 125 degrees. I think I’m good.

[@mattbrew11]

My family owns the largest pool & hot water solar company in florida. We install a ton of roof top collectors now backed up by a heat pump water heater and the results have been phenomenal. If they have gas sometimes we back up with on demand gas

[@amyfroehler8971]

My 46 year old gas powered tank just quit. I was looking at tankless until I learned about hybrid heat pump technology, seems like a no brainer. Great video. Hello from North Austin.

[@tc9148]

Great session, Omer of your best ever. Would love to see you do lots more like this with hard data and comparisons.

[@bradkolb4228]

We love our Rheem heat pump water heater! Here in VA I put ours in a utility closet and it's ducted to pull the warm, moist air from above the kitchen and dump cool, dehumidified air on the back of the refrigerator via a wall vent in the utility room behind the refrigerator. I like to think that the fridge and the water heater are working together to save me money! :)

[@buckwilson4167]

Brilliant!

[@GregsWorkshopOregon]

We went with the Rheem heat pump water heater 2 1/2 years ago and don't regret it in the least. Keeps the basement cool in the summer too.

[@MrBleworchid]

Thank you so much for mentioning the tax credit!!!

[@tommcmillan3143]

Thanks for putting this information, analysis and comparison together.

[@SILENTIMACT74]

Ideally value these product analysis videos. They are how I ended with my Mitsubishi hvac system. Keep them coming

[@Salyers-Family-2004]

This is a great choice. I love my RHEEM HYBRID water heater.

[@Fignewton117]

Awesome informative video, one challenge i do have to electric heat is when the power goes out in the north due to snow storms or other nasty storms. Gas heat is reliable in these time. As people make the shift to more solar or wind power with back up batteries I could see this really taking off

[@TurdyMcTurdface]

Depends, if the power is out up north, the addition of electric appliances increases your back up power requirements. Meaning either a larger generator or more batteries in your solar example. Solar up north becomes debatable too with the lack of sun in the winter - at least in most of the mid west and east coast.

[@kennethmburke]

recently did this exact project. Older gas tank failed, replaced with a 50 gal. Richmond (Rheem off-brand) heat pump hybrid. It sits next to my furnaces, so has a ton of waste heat from them to pull from in the winter. One suggestion to Matt - when talking about heat pumps, use a sponge analogy to describe the movement of energy, not 'heat', in the refrigerant cycle. The compressor loop is moving an energy sponge (refrigerant) from a source (geo/air) and then squeezing that energy out into whatever your trying to heat. It runs the same for cooling, just backward where the sponge is soaking up energy from the house (or freezer, refrigerator) and squeezing that energy outside.

[@PlasmPlayer]

I wouldve liked to see the comparison with electric tankless as well

[@daviddalewilkerson496]

Also, what about geothermal heat pump hot water using a desuperheater.

[@PlasmPlayer]

@@daviddalewilkerson496 Id love for him to go more over geothermal heat pumps. I believe its the future of heating in winters after watching the video from technology connections.

[@atodaso1668]

@@PlasmPlayer better hope you have a big yard and a big cheque book

[@atodaso1668]

Most of the time you will have to upsize your electrical panel, they use A LOT of power.

[@graymannetwork3368]

Great channel Matt. I always look thru your videos before I start a project. After seeing a couple videos of yours discussing heat pump water heaters I decided my next unit would be of that design. So last fall my old electric water heater died and I went with a Rheem hybrid unit. Wasn’t cheap, but the $500 tax credit, it made sense. Plus it had a dent in it on the back when it was delivered(didn’t bother function) They knocked off $450 for that damage. So far I will say I’m impressed. The energy usage is significant compared to the old one. I have a solar home here in Nebraska so every little bit helps. Thanks for always having good content.

[@truckercop]

I went from a high efficiency power vent 50 gal gas water heater to a Rinnai 199000 btu tankless. I have a family of 5 and my monthly gas usage went from 15‐18 ccf to 8-11 ccf. I set the Rinnai to commercial mode to get 140° max temp. I was shocked how much the gas usage was reduced.

[@thehpw]

Heat pump is efficient because it’s not creating heat, it’s just moving heat from one place to another. Great video.

[@valkyriefrost5301]

All heat pumps create a small amount of heat in the pump and motor. In heating mode, this is helpful as you can put that heat to use. In cooling mode (i.e., AC in summer), this heat generation takes away from the system efficiency.

[@alwaysvacationing5341]

You missed a big additional cost for those in northern climates. When the heat pump removes heat from the ambient air in the room and transfers it to the water, it then expels the cool air as you mentioned into the room which cools the room. This room air then needs to be reheated to maintain the same air temperature. Thus an additional cost for your home heating system.

[@wademartin8822]

exactly

[@conradcoolerfiend]

Yeah it totaly negates that 3-4 dollar thing he was talking about .

[@benc1927]

There are multiple modes, if its that big of a deal when its -20 outside simply turn off the Heat-Pump only mode and it opperates like a regular water heater. Otherwise set up a valve on the exhaust to expel it outside during winter, and then switch the valve over in the spring. Simple.

[@Macgyver0013]

You put them in a utility room or the like that doesn't need heat. These hybrid water heaters don't turn the space into an icebox and are not designed for a tight space.

[@markstipulkoski1389]

There are also split system versions which pulls the heat from outside. Also, if you put a non-split system in your garage, it can cool it down, not your house. It depends on your climate and situation. I believe there are geothermal split systems also, but of coarse that will cost you. Matts video is a 50,000 foot overview of the subject. There are lots of other videos for more detailed coverage of the subject.

[@KP-sg9fm]

Thanks Matt, great info 👍

[@susanmitchell4820]

Did my research 5 years ago and was sold on this unit. It was not easy to find! Thanks for chart!

[@geok8610]

Unfortunately the Federal tax credit expired 12/31/2021. So add $400 to that side of the equation. Also, lots of Southern homes use the attic for the water heater storage and the temperature extremes fall outside of the effective range for Hybrids (+110F in the attic during summer in my area). I'd still like one, but something to consider.

[@vespaman101]

I jist looked at the energy star website and it advised you can get a 30% tax credit up to 2k until 2032. My county also does a 350 dollar rebate.

[@kenchow8213]

What I would like to know is how heat pump water heaters impact the cost of space heating for your house in northern climates. The heat that the heat pump water heater sucks out of the air has to be replaced by your HVAC system during the heating season (6 - 9 months in northern climates). I have yet to see this factored into the cost savings comparison for heat pump water heaters. With a 9 month heating season, the advertised cost savings could possibly be reduced by a factor of 4.

[@benc1927]

Same as your Fridge making heat in the summer to cool the inside of your fridge. Do you buy a fridge based on how much heat it creates and how much it will cost to run more air conditioning during summer? This isn't that complicated folks.

[@sbernhard83]

If installed in the basement, garage, or attic you won’t notice it. Also, it’s free air conditioning and dehumidification during non-heating months. The economics make sense for millions of households. Don’t dismiss it because it doesn’t work for 100% of climates.

[@davidhoover2446]

It only outputs 4,400 btu while running, which isn't a lot. You can calculate that. It wouldn't be more than several dollars a month and not a worry, but you'd want it out of the way from a living area I would think because of the noise anyways.

[@brianroe88]

The loss or gain I'm room temperature is basically only the amount of heat you pour down the drain. At rest, it keeps the water hot, which is close to a balance in heat from the tank, and cool from the evaporator. Similar to how a fridge doesn't add much heat to a room, since the entire fridge is cold, almost offsetting the the heat

[@brettirwin5430]

definitely agree with this, even if you push the "cold air" outside, makeup air will still then be pulled from outside. And if it's in a closet/basement, heat will still move from the living space towards those cold spaces. No matter how you look at it, the heat energy from the conditioned envelope is being put into the water, and then down the drain. These are probably still more efficient than the other types, but it's largely dependent (in winter) what type of HVAC you have to make up that energy loss

[@monicarust2383]

Wow, thanks for this info! As a total energy nerd, I am in the middle of doing these numbers for several products. Great video!

[@Zi.Zenior]

Incredible video. Exactly what I was looking for. I didn’t even know these heat pump heaters existed

[@everydreamai]

Great topic to cover. I'd be interested to get more understanding in how they work in colder climates, where they should be installed, performance differences with colder air sources, etc.

[@npjutras]

They work great down to 40-45 degrees, which is about as cold as most unfinished basements get in Maine/MN. Maine, despite its small population, has become one of the biggest markets for heat pump water heaters.

[@everydreamai]

@@npjutras Yeah I'm curious to see the actual graph of COP vs ambient temp, plus some estimates and models of how using the product itself will drive down the ambient temp of your crawl/garage. There should be a relation between more hot water usage and ambient temp going down, for instance, and dependent on how well insulated the space is, and how much thermal mass is present. I.e. a negative feedback cycle where efficiency goes down with higher use rates as ambient temperatures and COP go down. COP of 4 is probably ideal only (~70F), and by 40-45F I'm guessing you're losing at least a full point on COP, maybe more. I wouldn't want to do my ROI calculations based on assuming it is peak COP, especially in any climate with any heating season. For Matt in Texas I imagine its a no-brainer and the COP remains high year round, and the garage has enough leakage and thermal mass that the feedback cycle isn't a major concern. At the same time, I'm concerned about getting into my IECC climate zone bordering on 4/5.

[@caseywhiteley3728]

Coming from a Northern Climate I made the switch to Tankless from a Heat Pump. Biggest reason was BTU loss due to recirculation loop. The loss was too much and caused the Heat Pump to operate almost non-stop. I have since changed out the recirculation pump technology and moved from timer base to motion sense in the bathrooms and kitchen to trigger the pump. Seen a drastic drop in gas usage and would love to test the Heat Pump again.

[@tomallen7462]

I live in a community that is high elevation in Colorado. Water temp from the main can be in the mid 40 f. in the winter. I am aware of many houses that put in a tankless water heater only to replace it 3 years later because it would not perform well. The delta T was just too large.

[@OGCJ10]

How has it been ?

[@charliepeterson983]

Matt: WARNING - We purchased a hybrid water heater for our new house last year. It was by one of the manufacturers you reviewed. The problem is the noise. I researched the brand and two different people at the manufacturer stated it would be 49 decibel, similar to a refrigerator. I can state it is 75 decibel which is really loud, like vacuum cleaner load. Imagine having a vacuum cleaner start up at 3:00 am in the middle of your house!!! Currently the water heater is located in our utility in the center of our house next to the two bathrooms to minimize wasting water at the showers and faucets. However at 75 decibel I run the water heater in the electric mode only which is not a cost savings. It will be relocated to our unheated garage in the near future, about 45 feet away but at least I will be able to hear the TV without having to turn up the volume over the water heater. I would warn everyone considering a hybrid to research how loud they are before purchasing and installing one.

[@brandonbuilds5050]

I have the same issue. Its driving me crazy. 78db 1ft from top of unit. Its in a insulated room in my basement and I can hear it throughout my first floor. Im about to return it.

[@charliepeterson983]

@@brandonbuilds5050 The manufacturer sent out two different contractors to work on it. They changed the fan - no difference. Finally they said the water heater had to be changed out under warranty. Same issue, no difference. Loud as ever. It is hard to believe you can sell a product like this that is as loud as it is. I just run it as an electric water heater and bite the bullet on the cost for now. It is odd that Matt makes no mention of noise level in his videos.

[@meganwinters5163]

These are the "new" generation from this manufacturer as well... Worst part is they know of the problem and refuse to actually fix it (they'll kick the can & offer you a foam insert that does nothing)!! And sadly if you also have their new firmware update/patch it's now primarily using resistive heat! I track every kWh with my whole home inverter and watched this happen. I returned for a full refund due to manufacture falsified advertisement!

[@jameshale5684]

I assume ur talking about rheem gen 5. Are there other brands which may be quieter??? I was ready to get the rheem performance platinum 50 gal but saw the noise complaints pretty much everywhere in the reviews. It doesn’t sound like its an isolated case. Now I’m on the hunt for a quiet energy efficient solution.

[@CarstenDressler]

@@jameshale5684 Stiebel Eltron Accelera E. My parents have one and it’s quiet. I have a rheem gen 4 and it’s quiet as wel

[@JonathanNation]

I wish instead of showing Dollars, there was the amount of input (electricity and/or gas) because that is a more firm number than dollars. What if gas prices goes up, down, or sideways? Same with electricity.

[@prescottperez-fox5747]

Many governments are manipulating the markets to make fossil fuels more costly over time. The energy requirements might be the same - eg, a 10,000 BTU electric system replacing a 10,000 BTU gas system - but the costs would be lower. The question, of course, is how to get the job done with a smaller or more efficient unit.

[@Eric998765]

I'm only two minutes in the video so far so maybe you cover it at some point, but I have been using an electric tankless water heater for about five years now and absolutely love it. It obviously never runs out of hot water, my electric bill got reduced dramatically after ditching the old 30 gal electric tank, and the unit itself was only $300, far cheaper than any other style you have listed. It has never had scale built up on it even though I'm on well water, and I've only had two repair it twice, which were very minor; one blown fuse and one time the little spinny thing in the inlet pipe got stuck. Other than that I've done zero maintenance on it. My unit also has a lifetime warranty on the electronics, exchanger, and elements. The only downside is I had to hire an electrician to add some breakers to my electrical box as the water heater requires three, 40amp breakers. He didn't charge much though the even if you factor that labor into the cost, I still came out cheaper than the options you've listed TLDR Show some love for electric tankless Matt! Edit: I should have also mentioned I love the small footprint. My unit is smaller than a suitcase so it can fit easily in the back of a closet, I don't need a full size room like you do with a tank unit and since I don't have to worry about gas, it can go anywhere.

[@compugod91]

My biggest issue with the heat pump units is that i feel like you need to factor in the temperature loss around the unit. You are indirectly putting some of the heating cost of your water into your heating bill. I think they are probably more efficient than gas or resisistive heat but as a northerner where i spend money to heat my basement i would love to see something that takes that into account.

[@iamtheartster96]

He does mention placement at the end of the vid, plan it right and it'll work wonders.

[@Off-Grid]

Used a Rheem Boiler that heats the floors and does our hot water. Works great and doesn't seem to use much propane, which is good when you're Off-Grid.

[@bschauz]

Great review!

[@timboe1848]

Love the heat pump water heater for most of the year. I live in the north and normally in winter time before the heat pump water heater my basement was about 60 degrees in the winter. Since I put it in my basement is around 40 degrees and the heat pump struggles so I have to run it in electric mode which is costly

[@whatheish9]

Vent it out of your basement. Put a damper selector on it, so you can choose to vent into the basement in summer, and outside in winter.

[@valgov3001]

Great message! Heat pump dryers are also very cool and I hope they can cut out more of the market like heat pump water heaters are starting to do.

[@emmanuelgutierrez8616]

iThe cooling and dehumidifying effect of the heat pump water heater sounds perfectly made to be stored indoor to help the a.c. in our hot climate

[@alexsassoon]

Great highlight of heat pump water heaters. We’re thinking about putting the “outdoor” unit of a SANCO2 system inside an IT closet as it’s only form of cooling (or perhaps as supplemental cooling and raising the set point and design criteria of a dedicated fan coil, depending on room size). It’s important to match energy sources with energy sinks when approaching high-performance building design.

[@roberthothan227]

Hopefully in the future this will be a standard way of cooling server rooms, making HW !

[@dtla008]

Love this video thank you!!!

[@tjam4229]

I love the fact that you are underscoring the nation’s move away from fossil fuels…moving toward electric usage! As you stated, this trend will only increase in every venue of our lives…from housing to transportation! Good job Matt

[@brians8664]

Great concept, not a complete execution. In Michigan natural gas is cheap & the heat is on 8 months of the year. I would have loved seeing actual energy consumption, not just “costs”. Energy costs vary from area to area. In 2018 for a family of 7 we spent $23-35/mo over an entire year when the only natural gas appliance in the house was a tankless hot water heater. Our electric bill went down $85/mo when we removed the traditional electric hot water heater. My overall point is that for 8 months of the year we heat the house with natural gas. Adding and air conditioner in the basement (finished area for us) would cool the basement resulting in more heat input required, aka more natural gas usage heating the basement. Initial cost for a 60 gallon heat pump water heater around here is $2300 just for the unit. Installation is another $450 or so. Just doesn’t make sense in heat-primary areas yet.

[@jma89]

I'm also in Michigan, but on propane for heat. There is a model of a heat pump hot water heater that puts the condenser outside, leaving only a stainless steel tank inside the house. This may be a great fit. (Unfortunately it's one of the most expensive options, but can get to that 160° F mark.) All told: I'd love the cooling impact in my basement for June through September, but otherwise I'll be needing that split setup.

[@jayhawkmba]

@@jma89 that is what Matt did in his personal build 👍

[@marvinbernard2566]

I wonder if there are units that let you turn off the heat pump part seasonally.

[@taylorbespoke]

@@jma89 The newer SANCO2 lowered the temp to 145F or 150F. The big problem with the SANCO2 unit is the very high price and lack of technical support if you are unlucky enough to have a problem. I think I would go for a indoor heat pump water heater and use the price difference to add a few more solar panels.

[@tomb66]

@@marvinbernard2566 At least the Rheem Proterra lets you do that. Some of the heat pump water heaters (like the Proterra) are essentially conventional electric heaters with a heat pump added on top. Mine worked just fine on resistive heating only. I would advise researching the heater under consideration to find out what modes it offers. It does cut into the ROI of the heat pump versus conventional if you spend large parts of the year running it in conventional mode. Note, if you are heating your house with heat pumps, it still makes sense energy/cost wise to keep the water heater in heat pump mode. As long as the house heat pumps are maintaining a coefficient of performance (COP) above 2, you are still coming out ahead compared to a conventional electric water.

[@OCRbeast999]

You are a GOD

[@TRYtoHELPyou]

Pulling temperature out of freezing air actually can happen. As long as that evaporator is colder than the air outside so that the outside air can warm it up. Unintuitive at first, it may sound. You got this spot on Sir. Tesla stepped up their heat pump game in their cars too. That cybertruck is gonna be built in your neck of the woods in the next year or two. If you like heat pumps you would appreciate those cars HVAC systems. Great video!

[@sumoneskid]

Thanks for everything here! A lot of videos about heat pump water heaters fail to mention placement. I'm glad that you did. I do have one comment to add. If you set this unit in an heated area, drop that UE factor to one or below and there is no efficiency advantage over a standard electric water heater. If you have to spend energy and money on space heating for the water heater to cool that same space you won't see any efficiency gains. There are some comments about the benefit to the unit acting as a dehumidifier, so there could be benefit there. I'm in the north, with very dry air. As much as I love this tech, it's the wrong fit for my climate.

[@scottfortune9016]

My hot water heater is aging and had been repaired once already, so when it goes, I'm going to really consider a heat pump. Thanks for the information!

[@mlanger2163]

Matt, Good video. I waiting for you to review a Heat Pump Dryer and a combination all-in-one washer/dryer.

[@tsengp7115]

My input on annual fuel cost: I replaced two of the gas tanked water heaters with one tankless unit. My gas bill went down by more than 1/2 (electric stove & dryer).

[@intertan]

same result. one complaint when talking to others is the distance from the tankless to the main use as in showers and waiting for hot water to show up. In my house case all 3 of my showers are within 5-8 ft of actual water pipe.

[@chrisarnone7896]

I Bought that same HP unit you have in the video. I would love to say I love it, but I can't. I just built a new home and took your advice on using a HP Water heater, and thought that it would do the same job as my old house's Gas water heater. Both are 50 gallon and in the past 7 years I never ran out of hot water on the gas unit. Maybe due to the fast recovery time on gas. But since I have been living in my new house, within the first week I have ran out of water and my wife has complained about the water issue. Maybe I need to turn up the temp to get more first hour usage. I went from the recommended 120 deg to 130. After watching this video , maybe I should go even Hotter. what do you think? Also something you didn't mention is the sound that these units make. I happen to have my unit in the conditioned attic above my living room and it has the low hum of the compressor every time someone takes a shower. If I would have known this I would have placed it somewhere else. Just something to think about when purchasing one of these. I haven't had it too long (moved in in Dec 2021) to say that it is saving much or not, but from what I read, the average electric Water Heater uses ~380-500kw per month (400/30=13.3 per day). So far I'm averaging ~3.11 Kw per day. (Only a family 3) if the average of 13 Kw for electric is true, this savings is as much as advertised. so that s 4x the usage. So keep that in mind. I may add an addition electric unit downstream of the HP unit as a storage unit. I would have liked to add a Gas unit but the install is much more difficult (venting) to add then an electric. Any suggestions on making this experience better would be helpful. I like the idea of saving money but the constant worry about if there is enough water may not be worth it.

[@woohunter1]

Couple things to consider: the Navien NPE 240A can reach temps up to 182 degrees F if running in commercial mode (once you use this mode, it limits your residential warranty) and most tankless water heaters don’t have an anode rod (no more rotten egg smell coming from hot water if you have well water). I would not use a heat pump if you live in colder climates, it lower temp of room it’s in and makes your HVAC work harder.

[@dreednlb]

As Matt said, basement is a good place for these. Or garage, etc. Anywhere you're not paying to heat. I've had one of these for probably close to a decade myself.

[@demammoet]

@@dreednlb most of us in the cold (PA), heat from the basement. It's still the most sensible thing in most homes. Matt is so knowledgeable but tends to display a Texas mindset that influences the hell out of his thinking.

[@dreednlb]

@@demammoet Agreed, and I see what you're saying. Basement might not be a good option but there are other places you could put it. Or if it needs to stay in the basement (who wants to move or pay to move all those pipes, electrical outlets, etc) you also have the option of changing the mode of a heat pump water heater. It could be run in electric only mode in the winter and heat pump mode in spring/summer/fall. I'm just saying, there are options other than "you can't use this in the north"

[@user-vp1sc7tt4m]

I recently moved into a tightly sealed condo unit. Humidity tends to be on the high side during the winter months. I'm thinking of replacing the electric resistance water heater with a heat pump water heater. It's located near the kitchen and I like to cook. Lot's of excess heat and humidity generated nearby. Someone in another comment mentioned the heat pump water heater installed in their basement dehumidified enough that they no longer need to run a dehumidifier! This solution sounds perfect for my place.

[@9496TULL]

My 23 year old water heater is going out. Looking to purchase a more efficient water heater. This was very helpful Thanks Just checked for rebate’s in my area. Zero. That figures.

[@dorisatkinson7259]

Very very helpful. Would love to see you add comparison to indirect hot water heat. My hot water tank just failed completely. I’d like to convert to heat pump, but the two costs not included in your analysis are the costs for getting electric outlet installed, about $1,000 estimated to put in 221 volt outlet, and the costs to get through an exterior wall for the condensate line. Even with great energy rebates, I don’t think the financials work. My summer time natural gas use for hot water is only about 10 therms per month or $12.70.

[@aaronlangworthy3047]

Great info. Coming from electric heaters to gas in the north, I like that I still have hot water in a power outage.

[@mnorma12]

Thanks Matt! I thought for sure you'd finally be talking about your ECO2 (formerly Sanden) unit - been waiting for that. I see a lot of comments about northern climates and how this won't work - mostly people hypothesizing. As someone living in the north (central WA state) who switched from a NG furnace, dryer, and water heater to heat-pump-based alternatives, I can tell you, it works just fine. My solar panels supply every watt (net metered not off-grid) and I pay a whopping $8 a month (just a grid-connection fee) for all my utilities and most of my vehicle fuel (2 EVs/ 1 ICE). In my case, I built a small insulated (for sound) mechanical room in my basement that houses the washer/dryer, water heater and central air handler. The washer and dryer supply some heat to the mech room, which gets circulated to the water heater and a portion of the supply air for the air handler comes from the mech room so it all gets circulated through the house, reducing cold spots. Overall, I haven't noticed a significant change in my electricity consumption, and I track it all pretty closely. No more NG bill (formerly $20-$80/ mo depending on season). For comparison sake, basic household details - 5 person household, 1960's 1500 ft^2 house with some basic insulation retrofits.

[@wyominghome4857]

I'm building a home at 7,000 ft. in Wyoming this summer. The water heater will be installed next to the gas furnace in a utility room next to the kitchen and dining areas. Winters here regularly dip to minus 10 degrees (and sometimes minus 30 degrees), winter well water is icy, and winter interior conditions are super dry (we have to use humidifiers). As much as HP water heaters save in warmer regions, I wonder if I can even use it under conditions in this area, and that's not even considering the noise the HP unit would make so close to the kitchen and dining room. I wish Risinger had said more about noise, incoming water temperature, etc.

[@snowballeffect7812]

You should watch reviews for any units you're considering regarding noise levels. If they're properly isolated, and well-designed, they shouldn't be noticeable, esp in their own boiler room. Your situation is similar to mine, where the waste heat from the furnace will be trapped in that boiler room with the HP unit, so it should work just fine in colder climate zones, too.

[@byroneidem5944]

loved this show we are going to be changing our water heater and now I am going with a heat pump water heater

[@jolyonwelsh9834]

Plus on a heat pump water heater, you can collect the condensate water in buckets and do your laundry with it.

[@VenomGT87]

I can attest to that exact same water heater’s performance. When I installed my Tesla solar I switched from a propane water heater that was running me roughly $800+ a year (anybody with that lives with women understands), after rebates, it would have paid for itself within the first 6 months (I say would have because being solar I hardly pay for electricity) I am glad I had the forethought to plan my solar system around converting to an all electric household (including transport; biggest saver). The only thing left is my propane furnace which being a 95% unit is hard to get an ROI on a geothermal system within my lifetime.

[@MakeMeThinkAgain]

I'm surprised you didn't talk about utility hookups. As I understand it, in many cases switching to tankless means boosting your gas service which can be expensive. I'm wondering if we could switch from gas to electric heat-pump with our current electrical service. I will have to explore that when it's time to replace our tank.

[@danslickers8166]

Appreciate the video Matt . Don’t care for how it was skewed. You put it in the writing below but didn’t bother to say it to speak the full truth. IF you get rebates they can be a little better but when comparing apples to apples (paying the full price which is the only way to be true) the gas tank still win’s and that is what should have been said. Grace and peace Slick

[@markzemlak1544]

This might be the single most useful video you and your team have put out Matt. There is absolutely zero reason for standard electric heaters to be installed on new home construction.

[@explorenaked]

Not sure if someone already commented on this but one thing that must be considered is electrical requirements. Our previous home was in the mountains of Colorado. NG was not served to our home so when built it had two 50 gallon electric water heaters which ran off 240v. I replaced them with one GE heat pump water heater. Huge savings on our electrical bill and no electrical changes required. Great investment. Our current home however uses a NG water heater. Therefore, if I wanted to replace it with a heat pump water heater I would have to have an electrician come in and run 240v to the location which in my case would involve a sub panel as well. I live in the PNW and in my area this would probably cost upwards of $2000 which really puts a dent in the ROI. IMHO heat pump WH are the way to go if you are replacing an existing electric WH but if it is NG it probably isn't cost affective (unless you already have unused 240v at the location).

[@janking2762]

We had this same issue when we needed to replace a propane hw tank. Upgrading the gas lines to support a tankless gas heater or having the electrician run new electric for an electric hybrid tank cost lots more than just a same old propane heater over the device life of the heater. I’m hoping this will change next time…

[@mjj1014]

Thanks for mentioning Sacramento! Very helpful video. We are debating tanked gas, tankless gas, and heat pump electric. I believe the SMUD rebates have increased a lot since the video.

[@corb0046]

Exactly the video I was looking for thnx

[@danr6823]

Great video Matt. I had a few issues when researching a heat pump unit for my house. Very few plumbing companies want to install heat pump units because of the nature of the pump itself, where it's more of an HVAC unit and less of a plumbing issue. I'm right down the road from you outside of San Antonio and can't get much luck with installers.

[@densalwach4698]

Thanks, Matt. Great tip, as I am prepping for solar and also a basement remodel. Current gas tank WH is in tough location for my proposed layout. (based on location of flue) Going to check out heat pump options and relocation potential. Cheers!

[@jeremyj.]

For 3 years I tried to buy a Heat Pump water heater in British Columbia, Canada. After watching your videos (and others) it was a no brainer to pick this tank when replacing my 12 year old builder quality 50g tank. 50% of my electricity bill was from water heating ($150/2 month billing). I received so much, SO MUCH rudeness from local suppliers and installers when trying to find stock. All of them stating that they’ve never heard of this tank type, that it’s not as good as natural gas, that they personally wouldn’t install it because of some obscure “insider” trade knowledge alleging they’re garbage products while trying to sell me what they do have in stock, etc. I gave up swimming up stream and bought a Rinnai NG tankless. It was a more than disgusting experience TRYING to go green when the companies want you to buy wasteful crap.

[@liberona29]

Hi Matt, what are you comments on the heat pump water heater if it is inside the building envelope. Did you consider the extra heating required inside your building envelope to provide energy for the water heater, especially in colder climates. I would be interested to see how this affects to overall cost of ownership. Great video as always!

[@iamtheartster96]

at the end of the video he mentions placement, even in cold temps the heat pumps will find heat.

[@ericmgodfrey]

Most cold climates in the continental US are only actually cold for 3 or 4 months of the year. The rest of the year, this will actually help cool your house and lower your AC costs. Some very northern and high elevation locations might be exceptions, but for 95% of Americans, this is a net win.

[@michaelfisher556]

Thanks Matt for all your videos I’ve learned so much in the In the research of building my future home. I wish I had someone like you in my neck of the woods up here in Michigan. I feel like I’m going to have to educate all my subs on the products they need to use.

[@jaychandra3727]

We are looking into hybrid water heaters. One drawback seems to be owner complaints about noise (see Green Building Advisor and big box website reviews). In some cases 70db or like a vacuum cleaner. For units where that's a problem, you could use mineral wool batts or blown cellulose to attenuate sound from your mechanical room. Easier to do in new builds or remodels. Where it's just a tank being replaced, owners may have less space to add sound dampening and it's an extra expense in any case. As for Mr. Risinger's new hot water heater, it's an ECO2 System's SANCO2 unit (saw it in his water softener post--Jake Bruton has the same appliance in his home) and the compressor is outside the home, so there won't be a noise issue. But they are significantly more expensive.

[@jeffsmith7840]

Loved the video still we started shelling solar. Solar is a bad investment to save on a 150-250 utility bill. Currently electrical grid can’t handle everyone going electric anyway. Come to Philly and I’ll show you what heat pumps do to the power line. It’s called they melt outta the air in the winter

[@dmorga1]

Buying a HP water heater was the smartest thing I've done on the mechanical side of the house. No regrets!

[@IanSeabrook]

Just did a DIY replacement of a 38 gal electric WH with a 40 gal Rheem heat pump.

[@jeepster1016]

Good stuff here Matt. Extremely helpful to someone (me) looking to go from a tank gas in my attic to another option or maybe even stay the same now.

[@bigredwag]

Last year my 50 gal Rheem hp cost for 2 people was only $52.38!!!! In AZ 582 kWh @$0.09 per

[@Azathoth43]

Nice!

[@MichaelNatrin]

I'm in the market for a replacement water heater, so this is extremely helpful!

[@fakename85]

Good shit!

[@averbeck1979]

Great video Matt, I am not sure if I missed it, but when it comes to placement, I didn't hear anything about a size requirement of the space that the water heater is going in. If the space is too small a heat pump water heater may not be able to function properly

[@tomallen7462]

This is a great video. As an BPI energy analysist, I always recommend replacing water heaters with a heat pump model.

[@billseto7920]

Well done Matt but I was wondering if you would add an electric tankless water heater to compare all these types of water heaters. Because it would be interesting what the costs of operating it annually compared to the gas tankless unit. Thanks for your great insights

[@nicholastempleton2468]

electric tankless are waste of money and is the least efficient

[@WakeUpAmerican000s]

Electric tankless heaters are terribly inefficient. Only good for the tiny tanks you'd put under a sink to provide "instant" hot water.

[@edc1569]

In a hot climate they seem such a good idea!

[@jeffs2102]

One of the best videos of Matt's I have seen in a long time. Educating us on pro/cons and tradeoffs and even giving the climate change shout out at the end. Thank you Matt for all that you do.

[@JeffPorter4316]

To change from gas to HP water heater would probably entail a new power source which you would need to include in your estimate of to replace gas if electric. I am just about to replace my two year old electric AO Smith with the Rheem 50 gal HP water heater. When we built our home two years ago our builder (Tilson Homes) said the plumber couldn’t install it because they didn’t know how to! I’m a master plumber and said I would after moving in. What I’m trying to say is our industry has a mental block on most “new” things. Thanks for making these water heaters main stream.

[@bjosch4365]

I have a tankless gas unit (Noritz) … it takes 1 minute for warm water to reach my bathroom faucet (1:20minutes “hot” water) over a 22 ft distance. Unless your tankless is placed right behind the wall of your faucet, you WILL waste a LOT of water per year with tankless systems.

[@prescottperez-fox5747]

Same with a tank, though. The distance seems to be the main factor, especially if the lines aren't well-insulated in the attics, basement, or walls. Anyone without a circulating pump is gonna be pouring water down the draining waiting.

[@bjosch4365]

@@prescottperez-fox5747 … true, but the tankless industry fool customers (homeowners) into believing the water is instantly hot … negating to advertise the time it takes reg distance, insulation of pipes, etc. Distance obviously important.

[@crissi5607]

That would be true to any water heater tankless or not.... the distance is still the same

[@yehudagoldberg6400]

I have the same issue with a gas tanked water heater. Not sure it has to do with the type of water heater, probably due to plumbing.

[@foundryman1985]

@@bjosch4365 stupid customers believe stupid claims. It's the main concept behind all retail marketing in the USA unfortunately.

[@Philadelphia19147]

I have a 40 gallon gas tank water heater from 1985 still going strong. Can't beat them for reliability.

[@erickessler6094]

Amen my Brother! Perfect timing for me! Brilliantly informative study! I love your 80gal Rheem. Based on its size, WHAT would you say is the smallest reasonable closet size I could fit that "big boy" into when considering the install crew needs and plumbing needs. Maybe... Just maybe we could live with a 60gal, but I'd like to squeeze your 80gal model in. Ha-ha, I'm also stealing your powered attic stair idea on my home that Steve is designing. 😀 Cheers Mate! Eric

[@ZombieLinux]

Look at Rheem's manual. If you have a louvered door, you can put it in a VERY tight space. Otherwise, you'd have to have a gap below the door. Note that it WILL make some noise.

[@erickessler6094]

@@ZombieLinux thx !

[@Matt-dc8lp]

Honest question: if you live in a northern climate, how much additional home heating cost will be incurred to offset the cooling of the heat pump option? Perhaps it is offset by summer cooling costs but it's something to think about.

[@baxt1412]

I’m wondering the same. My basement is unconditioned and already perfectly cool in the summers but pretty chilly in the winters here in Nebraska

[@s9josh778]

If your home is heat with propane in the winter, then cost wise, it becomes more like a propane water heater. But it's not a 100% thief. If it's in your basement or garage, your were leaking that heat anyway, so why not stash it in your water heater? :)

[@mattbrew11]

If youre in the north the best dollar spend is tankless gas if you have it

[@nellermann]

you can get models like Matt has in his house where the heat pump is actually outside and not in your house...

[@Matt-dc8lp]

@@nellermann fair, but you're not going to put a water heater in an external building in a northern climate.

[@drsg9124]

Thanks for the video. I currently have a 75 Gas Hot water heater and am considering moving to a Gas Tankless or a Heat pump electric. One of the factors i think you need to talk about is the fact that the tanked water heater will need to be replaced every 10 years or less. It seems like the consensus is that tankless water heaters last longer than that with proper maintenance. I don't think there would be enough servicable space to allow for me to replace the sacrificial anode, and I have a water softener so it's pretty harsh on water tanks. You have to factor that into your calculations as well. I would be installing my water heater in a finished basement with conditioned air. I live in the northeast and we get cold winters and hot summers. In the cold winters the heat pump would be drawing conditioned air and pumping cold air back into my basement which is where my home office is.

[@dmare]

Works perfect if you have it in the garage in the south. But in a cold climate during the winter months if you have that heat pump inside your conditioned space you can double that energy cost estimate b/c it is stealing BTUs \ heat from the air in your house to put into that water tank. In a cold climate a better place might be an insulated / conditioned attic b/c then you are basically recovering waste heat, but then you have the added cost of running 220v & plumbing to your attic, which almost certainly eliminates your energy savings.

[@gluuuuue]

My ng tankless cost $1900 for the unit itself (highest end Rinnai I could find) but $4750 with the installation (SFBA). I should probably sit down and actually do the calculations but our gas bill used to be crazy. Utility's energy report of "the average home" of our size used a fraction of gas we did, and now our gas usage is a fraction of what that "average home" uses, and is so low it might as well be a fixed base cost each month. And the hot water as long as we need it. Probably could've made it cheaper had I gone about it much more strategically, but our well over 13yr-old tank leaked and it was dead winter. From all I could see, really depends on your usage pattern and total amount. For my household, we were just 3 people but spending a ton on heating water we weren't using for most of the 24 hours in a day, then it would still run out if a 2nd person took a shower after a 1st or someone simply took a long shower. Now we can take baths again without fear.

[@electricbikeparts5202]

I just installed the Rheem and there is mind numbing hum/whine you can hear practically through my 2 floor house. BEWARE I spent all weekend with my BIL installing the thing, hundreds in parts, only now to realize this thing is a harmonic sound monster 👹

[@steven7650]

Rebate NY national grid (central NY region) is $700. I snagged one for 1299, less 10% for military at Home Depot 1169- 700 = $469!! Running at 120 in heap pump mode now since installed at .21c/Kw total cost is around $190/yr. Add 210 for the inlet and outlet adapters, and $135 for the automatic shut off. And about $150 in pipe and accouchement's. Note this is one of the few upgrades a home owner is allowed to do. No contractor required! I piped the cold air into the living space in the summer and basement in the winter.