Wavedash 2023 - Zain (Roy) Vs. S2J (Captain Falcon) Smash Melee - SSBM

[@StanleySophana]

Fellow Roy player here. That Double Edge Dance 3rd input up at 7:12 can be meteor cancelled. It's not likely anyone will meteor cancel it since a lot of people don't know what to do against Roy

[@LiquidenSSBM]

As a certified Roy Main🔥🗡️, the only players who consistently catch the meteor cancels are fox mains due to them spamming any and all buttons at all times always

[@SKITZ_MONEY]

​@@LiquidenSSBM yea

[@JoostArchives]

Funny enough they also say this at 4:30. Just about three minutes before it happens

[@gehteuchnichtsan7911]

I discovered it by accident while playing Roy and wished to see it anywhere. So funny I discovered this video by accident

[@CipherKnighto]

Just hearing the moves name be stated reminds me of what a beast in ultimate it is

[@EmissaryOfSmeagol]

I'm so confused, the title says Zain but the video says DontTestMe...

[@melomitchell8714]

Maybe one day we'll get the legendary mu between DontTestMe and Zain

[@Blove4592]

Lol

[@davidbehrens4760]

Zain trying to take credit for DontTestMe's success smh

[@OscarGeronimo]

Don't Test Me is playing, Zain is the one who is testing.

[@problemsnearyou8899]

Could be his name for playing Roy

[@joepho123]

Man could you imagine if this donttestme guy played marth?

[@surviv.iokids5783]

I’m pretty sure Zain is don’t test me so he does play Marth

[@FreezY492]

@@surviv.iokids5783 bro didn´t get the joke

[@wawatooki]

@@surviv.iokids5783 idiot

[@biflexx]

@@surviv.iokids5783 no way fr???!!

[@AL-lh2ht]

@@surviv.iokids5783it’s a joke

[@bwestbrook90]

The infamous “that covered everything.” Don’t tell M2K

[@voltingmaster5458]

You know Roy really has come a long way, from being an overshadowed clone in Melee To an absolute master in Ultimate.

[@Chiplinked]

Wow, am I the only one who felt gaslit for eternity in thinking that castor’s voice was the Crimson Blur?

[@Monkchelle_Kongbama]

turned out to be gaytrioc or at least what I imagine atrioc would look like if he cosplayed as duke devlon

[@appleormac]

i also thought it was blur

[@nl6526]

Lol no, I also always think that Slime is Vish when he is commentating a set.

[@inafridge8573]

​@@nl6526SAME

[@kalpek6913]

you're not 😭

[@Budb1357]

Zain is definitely gonna inspire people to play Roy and advance his meta. I can see him moving up the tier list eventually

[@JoshT4life]

He'll still be behind most top tiers because it takes forever to kill

[@LiquidenSSBM]

​@@JoshT4lifeZain takes so long to take stocks as roy because he plays Roy like it's Marth. He has a play style that is good for marth.

[@KolMan2000]

Just cause Yoshi got higher cause of aMSa doesn’t mean every character is lucky enough to have it happen for them. I really just don’t think Roy has anywhere near the tools or strengths that Yoshi has with stuff like Parrying and double jump armor.

[@archivelibrarian6818]

nah i doubt that. roy clearly is still complete trash and thats gonna stay that way

[@undertyped1]

Yeah, i can see Roy moving up from F rank to F-

[@deleteduser5312]

First game ended at 4:20

[@jeremykline6687]

He made Johnny fucking sweat for that. Zane is insane S2J should’ve had that in game 4

[@nahor88]

Roy/Falcon is actually more even than people think. Roy has some nice spacing/combo tools, and he's pretty fast himself. Unlike Marth, he's a fast-faller, so he doesn't really get comboed until certain percents. If he had some better properties to his aerials to set up forward smashes, he might actually beat Falcon.

[@dawgdawg8419]

Hugo looks like a fucking stud

[@妛槞]

Roy's dtilt into fsmash or neutral b is really satisfying

[@BlazeArceus777]

It’s especially satisfying against the spacies because they have enough hitstun you can get a partially charged f smash in time

[@666blaziken]

Zane's Roy is incredible, I don't know how he would do in p+ with the reverse mentality where everyone knows how to play against roy and he doesn't know how to play against any of the non melee characters, but I could see Zane making a top 8 tournament if he felt like it.

[@nahor88]

I was gonna say P+ Roy is pretty sick, but there are a number of quirky characters that you have to learn about. I still have no idea how to fight against Lucario.

[@smegmabutter3541]

insane to think s2j used to be a bracket demon for zain.

[@Ssethtzeentach_enjoyer]

*DontTestMe

[@michaelcarli]

As only a very casual Melee viewer, could someone explain why Zain’s playing Roy? Is God bored? (needs a lower tiered character to make it challenging for him)

[@janLilin]

According to Zain, people generally have less experience against Roy than they do against Marth.

[@isaacherrera4857]

I love that roy it is getting more recognition lately 😌😌😌

[@modobo]

Zain's fantastic but when Johnny gets going you better be ready to suplex a train.

[@zammyz1]

would love to see the matchup between DTM and Zain! Would love to see a marth vs roy matchup between an upcoming star and the marth king!!

[@theconiferoust9598]

ha ha

[@ItsBenbetter]

Can anyone tell me the model of tv they use?

[@InconsistentHandle]

Away from the melee scene for a few years and I come back to see that my boy Roy isn't a meme pick anymore? Is this real?

[@incidentlyaniguana2193]

He is a meme pick, Zain is just really, really good. Also johnny's a little washed.

[@woodenhouse8531]

Its still a mene pick. The thing is Zain is fucking insane, thats all

[@oughtopilot]

​@@incidentlyaniguana2193Johnny is probably still around top 15 give or take. Which, is probably closer to the average he's been his entire career. But ye Zain is something else and Johnny also didn't play that well haha.

[@incidentlyaniguana2193]

@@oughtopilot maybe it's just eye test but it feels like his edge guarding and fundamentals haven't improved while his explosivity and combo game has gotten less consistent. I know he is still one of the best in the world but he doesn't feel as dangerous as he once did.

[@busk0966]

Who is zain? Did they really get the legendary DontTestMe mixed up with that rando MDVA Marth #2451?

[@mandrakethemagician1727]

i was so convinced this was blur on commentary lol

[@alexblackburn2247]

this dont test me guy is really good. he should try Marth

[@timmasters1195]

Two takeaways: Sethlon is just bad, and if Jonny were a real man he'd go Ganon

[@Astar72439]

Hot take: Ganon has more in common with how sheik plays than falcon

[@FlittaLink]

Cant believe they would use Zain’s name in the title for clickbait. He doesn’t even appear in the video!

[@fuzbuzz00]

*Spoiler* I think Johnny went FoD for game 5 because his edgeguarding wasn't going so well. Zain's Roy was offstage so much but s2j couldn't close out the stocks, so he probably went for the stage with smaller blast zones because his better neutral and on-stage combos would make more impact there

[@UnderseaDock717]

Alguien sabe en aue plataforma lo juegan 🤔🤔🤔🤔

[@aaronchaska]

DTM needs to incorporate down smash into his toolkit, especially as an edgeguard. The sweetspot can kill off the top sooner than fsmash kills on the sides on some stages, and the sourspot swats away but still has some power, almost like a weak sheik fair. Would have got him some stocks much sooner. Also would like to see the third swing of double edge dance on shield angled down, multihit with a good chance of shield poking and some decent shield damage otherwise. At least safer than just throwing the first two swings.

[@bebehillz]

year later watching this and your super right. zain doesn't use down smash, ftilt, for the fire pokes in dancing blade nearly enough. I also think up b out of shield sometimes to keep opponents on their toes can be really useful.

[@OhSoSnake]

"Yesterday I went to the Korean restaurant"

[@HydroCronus]

I didn't know that was Hugs commentating! Nice dude

[@JoshT4life]

Johnny knew he would've lost for sure if it was Marth lol

[@astraea092]

yo that little ladder at 2:35 was sick

[@hazanko5875]

Commentary opens with complaints about crowd activity followed literally by "SO I WAS AT DINNER LAST NIGHT..." my fucking god man. it will never get better.

[@NeviTheLettyFan]

2023 looking wild

[@johndoe-rq1pu]

A waltz has three beats per measure. “What should we call a four hit dancing blade.” Infuriating.

[@akappaa]

the fourth hit is clearly the first beat of the second measure, duh.

[@LiveTwinReaction]

If that bothers you, Blade Waltz in League of Legends being 5 hits must be worse lol. It's just a cool sounding name for a dancing blade attack

[@johndoe-rq1pu]

@@LiveTwinReaction You're right that's much worse.

[@GameMasterWLC]

Zain is so fkn good man

[@squirrelwithwi-fi7849]

Playing against Roy as a fastfaller is a bit like fighting quicksand. Any spacie that has fought a decent Roy that knows how to mix d-tilt, jab, grab, and dashback is going to know what I'm talking about. Once you're in Roy's threat range he's definitely got options. As long as you're not on ground level, you have an advantage against Roy. Of course he still has options. On ground level, he is almost as threatening as Marth, don't be fooled. So platform camping him is optimal, but this slows the pace of the game down tremendously, and you have to be familiar with the MU to know what mix-ups to go for when descending from a platform. Roy is not a *bad* character. He has some severe flaws but he is more than capable of taking stocks, and at the end of the day, that's all that matters. In fact, most mid-tiers have better MUs against spacies than people realize. Spacies (and falcon) have excellent movement that allow them to combo and pseudo-combo the entire cast, but the price they pay for this is that pretty much any character can 0-death them. Which is why a decent kirby can obliterate a fox that doesn't know the MU (it happened to me, to my shame). Sheik obliterates mid tiers precisely because she doesn't fall as fast as fox/ falco/ falcon, making the combo flowcharts for mids versus her much more linear and weak (also she generally has superior hitboxes in all cases, and the mids don't have the speedy movement to weave in and out of her threat zones like fast fallers). Zain is incredibly good but my Roy main friend has told me that Roy is, in fact, a solid mid-tier, and is not a low tier. Over time I've come to believe him. His grab leads into genuine KO setups against fastfallers, and his movement is absolutely S-tier, allowing him to play a defensive grab game that is straight out of Marth's playbook. So, TLDR, Zain would probably not have this success with a character like Bowser. Bowser is also much worse than Kirby, in spite of what people think. Kirby can wall people out, crouch under moves, and generally be annoying. Bowser is just a walking target, waiting to get 0-death'd.

[@squirrelwithwi-fi7849]

This in no way diminishes Zain's crackedness. But it's more comparable to Mango's "scorp" mario than Zain somehow bringing an F tier to the top.

[@woodenhouse8531]

Zain is sick.. he won 2 games vs S2j with a fucking Roy

[@fireflyhighh]

If zain can optimize roys plat game i think i could see roy being picked a lot more

[@FoulUnderworldCreature]

Roy is lower mid tier at best. He has a ton of issues killing and needs to get super close to his opponent.

[@cameroncorrado3935]

The Waltz should be 3 hits of Dancing Blade because waltzes are danced in counts of 3.

[@bluedistortions]

Really well played by both, but in that first match there were several times DontTestMe could have easily grabbed the edge to kill Roy, but chose to just let him back up for some reason. He was more confident game two and beyond, well played.

[@titustoast2879]

DontTestMe (aka Zain) is Roy

[@AK-fh1qz]

s2j getting checked out 19:48 lmfao

[@bluedistortions]

I never understood why Roy was considered bad. His swings are so hard to dodge and hes not exactly slow.

[@妛槞]

Marth outclasses Roy in almost everything, especially range The main argument as to Roy being shit is his sweetspot being in the middle of his sword and the sourspots doing terrible damage so his range is shorter despite being a Marth-like character

[@BeeBN]

zain really out here styling and disrespecting SJ2 with that ROY

[@Yvs8962]

Hugs really just looks like someones dad lmao

[@Kniightisa]

We all old AF now

[@heartnet40]

Call me crazy, and it IS tremendously impressive Zain can play Roy well at this level, but this just kind of makes me hate Roy more, like, damn. He *really* sucks despite how good Zain is playing.

[@callmekanda5662]

love your pfp very cute

[@ln8496]

Roys SH flare blade hits under the ledge and cant be teched at low %. Theres an easy true 50/50 between doing that and counter after throwing falcon off that makes the matchup like really hard to lose as roy lol

[@Killopotamus]

That is helpful to know, but also Roy has to get that opening against the fastest character in the game, that really should murder roy off any strong enough knockdown/aerial. No hate, MU knowledge is good ofc, it’s just also like “yeah lemme get Falcon offstage… oh he’s on top plat or flying from side plats, shield drop aerials, etc…. Hmmm” **AGGRESSIVELY DASH DANCES** haha

[@ahmadkazan5473]

How do win neutral as roy if your opponent is holding his controller though.

[@francesco3588]

ZAMN zain

[@Bravenwolf22]

I dont play melee, I play pm/p+ but whenever I see zain play roy I feel like I should be taking notes

[@ChiefyIndian]

I thought crimson blur was commentating the whole time...

[@lorenzo689]

Isn't he??!¡

[@ChiefyIndian]

@@lorenzo689 peep the end of the video and have your mind blown

[@Chiplinked]

Yeah same. Like, how is that not Blur’s voice I feel like I’m going insane

[@imnotnarcian]

roy is definitely not as low as everyone says he is on the tierlist. He's way better than Yoshi that's for sure

[@FeelinGood21]

Someone tell Zain to hax dash with Roy

[@3three3three3three]

wtf are those tvs?

[@J0J0Jetz]

I almost hate how good zain is with Roy… lmao

[@Icemario87]

Zain took too long to learn how to beat Falcon. But Johnny still had the matchup advantage and maintained a lead. Had Zain picked FD on his first counterpick, maybe Game 5 would have been Zain's pick. And then Zain could have won.

[@lordz_legend3532]

barely even knew zain before but he gets massive respect for this

[@TheFenrirVII]

Nerd moment here, but it bothers me more than it probably should to hear a 4 hit move called a "waltz" (a 3 beat dance)

[@khronbear8451]

Wild how we still got people lugging around CRT"s in 2023.

[@TheTELproductions]

sick

[@geesixnine]

Aint no way boi lol

[@Typachisan]

Umm this video is very low audio

[@127marq]

Dancing blade ≠ Doubke edge dance

[@AntoninoBoniniMancini]

Good, Zain Good Zain

[@Eleechee]

Roy’s our boy

[@dylanrutherford4425]

Roy is our boy!

[@cxgx9054]

Sethlon > Zain

[@zaneberry]

theyre out of rice!

[@kca698]

one commentator is better than the other edit: throughout the entire set. by a large margin.

[@LiquidenSSBM]

Zain takes so long to take stocks as roy because he plays Roy like it's Marth. He has a play style that is good for marth. But he is still a great Roy player!

[@LiquidenSSBM]

@@itsbmeGaming in my experience roy has decent options that lead into either an f-smash or dancing blade. Combo starters are usually d-tilt and fair With combo extenders being things like up air, dair, fair, side b meteor, and d-tilt also Ik its basic but just combo into fsmash most the time. Or latter combo into down smash. Im not trying to advertise my videos but watching the awakened or roywave video would showcase options. Not tryna be patronizing or anything tho

[@KRizmaTV]

If your opponent has a brain, it should be hard for Roy to kill. Idk what kinda bots you are playing against, my boy

[@LiquidenSSBM]

@@KRizmaTV imo thats similar to saying people with brains dont get grabbed by marth or people with brains dont get pillar combo'd.

[@KRizmaTV]

@@LiquidenSSBM Not at all, because Marths grab is actually busted, so you can easily get grabbed, but Roy actually killing doesn't happen that much or as easy, because he has limited kill options which are sluggish and often telegraphed

[@LiquidenSSBM]

@@KRizmaTV yea roy only has a few solid kill options, but his fmash has monstrous knockback And there are several options that lead into his fsmash swiftly. Combo the opponent and end the combo with a back part of a falling dair into fsmash or falling up air into fmsash are nasty. I personally think people sell roys options short.

[@sivartnospmis9101]

i know hugz will never see this, and also i know you dont care about some randos opinion online. But bruh, you gotta do better on the desk, so negative, so much shutting down the continuing of caster banter, so much borderline racial comments [even if it is true]. like you gotta "yes and" everything like its improv, be more positive, even if its something you hate. atleast try to not come off as harsh towards it. completely shutting down conversation around it. iam in no way saying i would or couldve done better. im just saying you are an OG of this scene and imo dont get the props youve gained. im just trying to give me outlook.

[@yixi8570]

っぱDXよ

[@glazedept4458]

Zain lost all respect having that pillow for his arms hahahaha

[@nbdpropurple6151]

bob zeck did it better

[@yoinksp8972]

Thank you for listing pronouns. I was worried people would start taking esports seriously 🤡

[@alexblackburn2247]

Hugs is literally the worst commentator

[@quoang]

Kinda annoying how you all buckle to leftist ideology

[@shavingrabbid]

go away

[@coolguy02536]

@@shavingrabbid nah

[@zogbogbean2464]

S2j is one of the greatest melee players of all time, easily top 3 falcon all time. Don’t disrespect the man with this roy bs, Johnny cleaned house like he should.. yet this comment section is nothin but zain fanboys coping.

[@jamesfern14]

cleaned house? bro it went to five games. whats there to cope about

[@the_epic_gamr_boi]

Is that Ryan's worlds dad?

[@Faradars1]

I no understand why popple use roy if you have a better version marth, its like ppl want to use pichu when you have pikachu