Andrew Dabb - The Worst Thing About Supernatural?

[@wallmemaybe]

Y'all know why you're here.

[@fluffyhales]

pain

[@magiv4205]

Ouch

[@JeremyHannaford]

I just want to say, I love this comment. Also thank you to everyone who's watching this video again.

[@AerYdmyg]

For killing death off, making Billie the new death, making the shadow older than Amara, brought back Gabriel but didn’t bring back Bobby; And when they did he was a different universe version bs Andrew Dabb is to supernatural what aids did to Freddie Mercury

[@_gremlinboy]

@@AerYdmyg this is. Maybe not a metaphor you should just throw around lightly?

[@wolfgirlinfinity9412]

I will stand by my opinion that the worst thing they did in the show was bring Mary back. Mary's first death was the lasting scar on both of their lives, and was the catalyst for everything the boys went through growing up afterwards. Bringing her back meant that they'd need the balls to kill her again or have her invincible, and killing her again would just be a rehash of literally everything we already knew. Obviously we know what they chose, and literally nobody watching felt anything but annoyance.

[@JohnWinchester3567]

And how did bringing her back negate the effect of her death? She still died, they were still traumatized. John's trauma started it. The Sam girls latched onto Sam's John is out for revenge bs. It was a part of it but not the main. You're John asleep with your spouse. Kiddies tucked in. You get up cause you can't sleep. Wife murdered in sons nursery. What brought her to the nursery? baby fussing. Why was whoever in the nursery? Whatever their intentions they were willing to murder to stay hidden. Didn't care John knew they were there just didn't want Mary describing them Sam at the least John knew was in danger.

[@wolfgirlinfinity9412]

@@JohnWinchester3567 FIRST of all, cool it with the lecturing. Second, it didn't NEGATE the effects of her death TO THEM, my point was that a second death from her would never mean MORE than her first one TO US because it was the set up for the reason they grew up hunters in the first place, and it set up the dynamic the boys would have with their father. *There is no topping that* because her second death wouldn't, AND DIDN'T let us see anything we haven't already seen from EITHER of them that would be anything other than a rehash of things we've seen in previous seasons. Killing her a second time permanently when the first time was already SUPPOSED to be permanent was nothing more than a cheap shot easy way out for the writers to make Dean angry and make Sam MORE fucking depressed, and makes it really hard to care about her death *as an audience* seeing as she wasn't supposed to be alive in the first fucking place.

[@JohnWinchester3567]

@@wolfgirlinfinity9412 1 not lecturing. 2 a parent's death regardless affects you. 3 this is about the guys not your. Watching SN on TNT. Mary leaving to get her head straight. Dean upset and Sam explaining to Mary Dean's afraid of losing her again. Dean has always wanted his family together. He got it and it's more precious because he knows how it feels to lose it. Now his fears are reality. He lost him mom after only having her for a few years to lose her for me would hurt worse. Her death is ripping them apart regardless of her having died before. Pain isn't just pain. It has as many levels as love does.

[@wolfgirlinfinity9412]

@@JohnWinchester3567 *sigh* just forget it. Seriously.

[@caelyn2873]

It gives none of the deaths on this show meaning. I hope season 15 is the last of the Winchesters, although I would like to see their legacy last forever.

[@walkingcubkid]

10:00 I do NOT blame Mark Sheppard for leaving the show, if anything, he got out while the ship was still sinking to the deepest depths before they could make Crowley even more stupid than before.

[@nomadpurple6154]

He didn't leave, he was pushed. It was a bad breakup but definitely better than the endless descent of Crowley

[@walkingcubkid]

@@nomadpurple6154 that’s another way of putting it.

[@austinsavage]

@@nomadpurple6154 was it really a bad breakup? i love Crowley, def one of the best things about the show. why did they push him out?

[@ultravioletpisces3666]

@@austinsavage idk... but remember when they had him in chains licking the ground? Ugg. .

[@Amy-and-Ozzy]

Mark was told they couldn't afford to keep him on, he was merely asking for fair pay for being a regular. He was making more money as a guest star but was made to sign as a regular. He was also pissed about the way crowley was written for the last few seasons.

[@jessieblue9285]

I'm so agree Dabb kills Supernatural, he doesn't care the show and he hates Dean & Sam. The worst showrunner ever!

[@FilmFan-iv7sz]

Has he, said he hates Sam and dean or do you mean how he treats the characters

[@ultravioletpisces3666]

@@FilmFan-iv7sz he did say he hates Dean or Jensen once and there is a ton of debate as to whether or not he was kidding.

[@FlecheNoire07]

I approved. His resident evil netflix serie is more like a teen drama woke show than an action horror apocalypse serie. And what a stupid idea of adding Blade to the serie.

[@paradygmshift7826]

But guys c'mon he made Jack a power vaccum, how cool was that. They also were gonna make him a cosmic bomb, that's such an original ide...oh wait nevermind.

[@lsarvin]

Once death meant nothing anymore, how does a writer create tension? Once having a world destroyed may be undone, how does a writer create tension? I was already burned out by trying to follow too many main characters in comic hero movies in the theater. Oh, and once Bobby Singer died and agreed to fully die after being a ghost in the leviathan episodes, then the Winchesters somehow tagged him to break out of his "cell" in heaven to discover how to help them in something else? What does heaven even mean then? The entire fictional heaven/hell created in this series doesn't mean very much anymore. The worlds don't mean anything either. There is no permanence and nothing to cause real conflict anymore.

[@laltrasfaccettaturadelrubi6845]

honestly i wouldn't have even have him come back as a ghost.

[@thebadguychinli4011]

My thing is, angels can create human bodies so why do they need vessels? With demons it makes sense because they possess people but angels have always been able to make human-form vessels in biblical lore. Castiel could’ve seen Jimmy and just imitated his visage. Gabriel did it in Changing Channels when he disguised himself as Dr Sexy and in Mystery Spot as the guy in the diner with Sam. Ugh. Season 4, to me, was the beginning of the end.

[@michaelmorris589]

​@@thebadguychinli4011 Gabriel did that AFTER he had a vessel, not before. We still don't know if it was 'mind tricks', really good illusions, or genuine alteration of reality. Trickster, you know.

[@austinsavage]

@@michaelmorris589 the problem with the show is the lore consistency. if who we saw as angels on earth are just their human vessels, why do they take the same appearance in heaven and in the Empty? same goes for the demons, who all look like humans in hell. i chalk it up to budget constraints and im willing to overlook this logical lapse to enjoy the show

[@b.j.peterson7462]

I always thought Dan Loflin was the better writer in the pair. Dabb has a real problem crafting an arc for the season. His go-to seems to be the classic bait and switch. Like he thinks that's clever, to let us think something is gonna happen, then shift gears mid-season and go in a totally different direction. It's very clear when you rewatch a season. Unlike Kripke, where you can spot clues along the way, that you often don't notice til you're watching in retrospect, Dabb drops stories & really neglects his main characters, Sam & Dean. Eugenie seems to have a lot of power on the show & while I think her & Brad were great writers back in the day, they are old-fashioned in their storytelling & basically change things to make the ending they want happen. I remember great interviews with Kripke where he admitted how tough he was in the writers room, pushing his writers to deliver those amazing scripts we used to get. Now it seems like no one ever questions anything. No one asks why something is happening, no one demands excellence. Nothing is complex, it's pretty simple now, make the characters do whatever is needed to get to the final scene they've already written. Regarding Dean was the last truly great Dean episode. Chuck's ending commentary in Swan Song is one of my absolute favs & defines the character along with the nuanced writing of Robbie Thompson in Don't Call Me Shurley. Chuck can be complex, he can be petty & petulant, but to have him be so vindictive & mean as to burn the world down is not rooted in the reality of the God we've known on the show. Like so many other characters Dabb has brought back & killed, he's destroyed this amazing character. Consistency matters. Canon matters. When you have such a rich tapestry to work with, it's criminal to trash it as he has. I am quite fearful for this final season. I want the fans & the creative team to have an ending worthy of what Kripke created all those years back. A great writer could make it phenomenal, unfortunately we have Dabb. So I expect more regurgitations of past stories, focus on other characters, and no true explorations of who Sam & Dean are. It's a real pity. I'm hopeful I'm wrong, that somehow the gods shine on us & they pull out a good final season. That said, I've been here since the 1st ep & I will support Jensen & Jared & the team & be there til the end. They've earned our loyalty. I just wish they got the scripts they deserved.

[@nuthouse14]

Ditto

[@tyrellmcintyre1662]

The whole thing with the chuck storyline the way I perceive it is that it was all an act and that the real chuck wasn’t just writing the books but that he was writing the show himself just for his own entertainment and chuck decided to add himself to the story but the way he wanted to be perceived as a impartial god who believes in free will

[@ultravioletpisces3666]

I agree with you and, I think the whole time dabb has been show runner, hes run the show into the ground and then people wrote it off as just thst the show has run it's course.

[@cristaandioni6794]

I hate to break it to you but Dabb let us down with the whole season and made the final absolute trash. I actually don't even claim the final, get it the hell away from me.

[@aradamichaels927]

@@tyrellmcintyre1662 yeah but thats just a big cop out, you know? It's like all those it was just a dream kind of idea. I get that dabb decided to go with the God's a writer and writers lie but...man I dunno. Seems like lazy writing. Even carver kept chuck more of a good guy

[@Horrormaster13]

You should have called this Video *"The Rise and Fall of Supernatural"*

[@JeremyHannaford]

Whoa that's cold ...but not untrue

[@DrFyder]

Sounds lame. Everyone uses titels like that

[@lizmoss]

totally agree. the show has gone down tremendously since s5. s8-s11 had some really great moments and a few good story arcs, but the last few seasons have been so bad i can’t even tell you what has happened. i’m just that un-invested.

[@ke7031]

I'm going to be honest, i'm a big fan. However, I stopped watching after demon dean. It was just so antithetical to his character and was kind of cheap fanservice. I watch an episode here and there and youtube videos of scene to satisfy the need to revist and see what they've been up to - I also follow the cas/dean thing heavily. But it's so bad. I started getting my bf and best friend to watch it. I straight up told them that they should consider it ended at season 5. Like post s5 is a travesty of them trying to recapture that nostalgia. You know what made it nostalgic? A cohesive storyling in a world with consistent lore where the most unique thing about it were the initial idea and the character growth. That's it. Sometimes simpler is better.

[@hunterthewerewolf]

Thank Chuck! For the longest time I thought I was the only Supernatural fan that thought the villain turn for Chuck was completely and utterly out of nowhere. Of course there were other big problems, and I'm glad you addressed them, but for me I loved Chuck so much that it tore my heart to see his character butchered.

[@gabitormes8184]

I come from the future to tell you that YES, HE IS THE WORST AND THIS SHOW DESERVED SO MUCH MORE THEN THIS SHITTY ENDING I'M SOOOO MAD

[@angelaholmes8888]

I feel the same way

[@adoptdontshoppets]

Yeah, I think we have to put much of the blame on Dabb, though I am positive it is shared with Singer and wife Eugenie (if rumors are true, Eugenie is a major reason why Lucifer/Nick just wouldn’t go away. For me, final nail in the coffin on Dabb was that when his lead actor asked for guidance on the characterization to play Michael!Dean, Dabb just said do whatever you want. That doesn’t sound like a good, capable show runner to me and is likely indicative of how he operates in general, resulting in the last 3 seasons suffering from inconsistent quality in the writing from episode to episode. Where is the vision and the leadership? Horrible Fan service, Ret conning and other inconsistencies like you really cannot keep track of what powers Castiel has at the time and why, Dean is smart in one episode and dumb in the next, just leads at best to audience confusion; at worst to out of character actions and dialogue, making the stories clearly contrived. So while I think there has been some character development, it gets lost because the writers aren’t keeping a consistent narrative.

[@JeremyHannaford]

Very well said!

[@CoastDreamz]

I've thought all the same things!!

[@FilmFan-iv7sz]

Yikes that's not good

[@nomadpurple6154]

Given Singer is the senior showrunner I wonder if he isn't the MAIN problem, as once Kripe left, the show did head towards the Lois and Clark:Adventures of Superman direction

[@FilmFan-iv7sz]

@@nomadpurple6154 I still think s 6-11 are good to watch with handful of great episodes s12 to 15 not as fun once Jack introduced due to he bring so central to everything was still fun to watch though

[@celinenaville]

I hate Dabb so much. I think he is the reason it has slid downhill this badly. Everything is terrible now. The filming. The special effects. The acting. The story lines are non sensical. They retconned everything ever. Its like he went back and purposefully tried to dismantle everything kripke had established right down to Sam being the true vessel of Lucifer. I actually don't think you were harsh enough on him for taking something that was a masterpiece in the first 5 seasons and was finally almost firing on all four cylinders again gor part of 11 and then crapping all over it.

[@FilmFan-iv7sz]

The only retcon that I picked up on that bothered me was the reapers are a class of angels. But that was in carvers run. What did you think of the moriah twist Doesn't the twist make the 14 seasons pointless as the boys still had to deal with everything that happened but the reveal that all the plans that had to stop where not thought of by themsrlf I. E lucifers return, livithans, crowley etc it was, all just god seems off somehow or am I misreading it. When was the lucifers true vessel retconned

[@celinenaville]

@@FilmFan-iv7sz they retconned sam as the true vessel in season 12. They made it where somehow crowley brought back Nick-- who was rotted out from the inside (because no human but Sam was strong enough to contain Lucifer back in the day) and left as a corpse on the warehouse floor for 10 years. Nick had also been shot in the HEAD by the colt so how he was still in the vessel alive is moronic. If it was as easy as magicking up a spell to make Nick the perma vessel than ALL of 1-5 was pointless because they never needed Sam to say yes to Lucifer. They ruined crowley as king of hell... he wasnt handed the title. He seized power in the vaccuum created when azazel was killed and declared himself King of Hell. I can't even go into everything they ruined/retconned. It was literally everything. Established monster lore was just done away with entirely. Even the last episode, they were looking in Dad's journal about vamps. Except vamps were thought to be extinct when the boys first came upon them. There wasn't anything in the journal. There is also nothing that said vamps cut out tongues in the previous 15 seasons. And when Dean is dying he said he waited outside Sams Dorm. Except sam wasnt living in a dorm. It was an apt. And yes the reaper thing irked me too. But Dabb did that every week. Constantly.

[@FilmFan-iv7sz]

@@celinenaville for the retcon of the true vessel. I think it was meant to be Sam since Micheals was deans so it was to play out brother against Brother as the vessels were always brothers.

[@celinenaville]

@@FilmFan-iv7sz it was meant to be Sam and Dean but they were able to ressurrect Adam to play Dean's part. Sam was the linchpin. They needed Sam and it was said a hundred times that Sam was the only vessel that was supposed to be able to contain him for any length of time, or else they would have used Nick's vessel for the fight. It wasn't strong enough to last.

[@celinenaville]

Sam as the one and only vessel was literally the entire premise and point of the Kripke seasons.

[@jcksparrowfan]

On the topic of the brothers lack of character development, any they did have was completely erased to 0% in the finale.

[@aradamichaels927]

Just go with season 5 being the finale of the series. Thats what I'm doing. There are barely any rewatchable episodes from season 15.

[@jcksparrowfan]

@@aradamichaels927 I disagree, some really great characters are introduced later on: Metatron, Gadreel, more development for Cas, Casifer, Deanmon

[@aradamichaels927]

@@jcksparrowfan Some but not enough to really be worth. I guess I just have a lot of frustrations with some of the newer seasons. The newer writers really liked to bring some old characters back and just completely ruin them. They brought back Tessa and turned her into a wooden plank and was really OOC and decided to go with Metatron and commit suicide. They brought back Lucifer half a dozen times and wrote Crowley to keep him (also OOC for him since he was always a survivor character, it made no sense why Crowley would try and keep Lucifer when he knew the angel was a loose canon and hated demons and after he tried to keep Amara on a leash and that went so well...Crowley's a smart guy, he wouldn't make that same mistake, he couldn't even keep Dean when he was a demon on a leash), they brought Missouri back just to kill her within 10 minutes, they brought back Michael and completely erased his personality and his time spent with Adam and decided to have him want Chuck's love even after what everyone told him and showed him (I'd take AU Michael over him after what they did to him even though he was a typical villain with hardly any backstory). They ruined a lot more than they gave. I'll give you that there are some great episodes like the Scooby doo crossover but not much else for me. My main gripe is probably Jack though and having another character shoved down my throat and I'm supposed to sympathize with him after he's taken over the show in the last 2-3 seasons.

[@shehanzs2539]

That's what I was saying. made once a great show a fucking joke.

[@sprafa71]

A few weeks ago i started watching it all over again and i said "wait, this is good, why did i stop watching it?" then i got to the episode with the dragons in season six, where they are just normal people with wings and hot hands, and dean was a joke of himself and said to myself "ohhh, i thats why", and now i remembered leviathans, and well i have never gone any beyond season 7

[@angelaholmes8888]

The only season of supernatural that came close to the early seasons is season 11 to me the others not so much

[@shannonmiller1129]

Dabb has systematically ruined Supernatural. Season 14, in particular, was an incoherent mess too heavily focused on Jack, reducing Sam and Dean to bit players. It also culminated with the worst ending imaginable by retconning Chuck. No wonder the actors want the show to end.

[@JeremyHannaford]

It was an absolute mess. I couldn't believe just how much shit was started and dropped in less than 20 damn episodes.

[@FilmFan-iv7sz]

With retconning chuck are you referring to the twist Doesn't the twist make the 14 seasons pointless as the boys still had to deal with everything that happened but the reveal that all the plans that had to stop where not thought of by themsrlf I. E lucifers return, livithans, crowley etc it was, all just god seems off somehow or am I misreading it

[@shannonmiller1129]

@@FilmFan-iv7sz Yes, it does make everything they ever did pointless. It means they can't be praised or accept responsibility for any mistakes they made. The twist(retcon) of Chuck destroyed who Sam and Dean were. I'm assuming it was done to take the spotlight off of Sam and Dean, in order to place it on Jack, as well as the showrunner exacting revenge for not getting his spinoffs picked up.

[@FilmFan-iv7sz]

@@shannonmiller1129 I felt the side of the boys what they did mistakes and all were own doing. I just felt the twist of everything they went up against was gods work not the villains own schemes. Why he would pit thrm against amara though

[@lijastojkovic7516]

Amen to that sister.

[@aDm219]

I liked the antichrist story. I wondered where did he go and was he never brought up ever again. Now I see...

[@robanah]

Same reason they won't bring Adam back either.... Because Jesse and Adam were Lofflin's characters and not Dabb's... So we most likely will not see either character come back

[@ericthomas5963]

aDm Ugh...I know, right? And what the fuck is going to happen to the brother they left in the fucking Cage?!?!

[@Marco.91]

@Scarlet Rose17 for fan service

[@angelaholmes8888]

Yeah I'm still furious that Jesse never returned to the series or was even mentioned plus the actor who played him said that he would had love to return to the show but he was never asked to do it

[@suzygarrison2110]

Dabb's writing failures can be seen in the dialogue that went from brilliant to mundane. He had to get rid of Crowley because he is apparently incapable of writing dialogue for him. It was the same for Rowena. Dabb brought Supernatural down to the level of other CW shows. He has always been a second tier writer. The loss of all the first tier writers doomed the show. There were so many lost storylines during the last three seasons. One of the best examples was the way that Mary's decision not to make a deal caused what happened in Apocalypse world. When it was revealed there was no reaction on the part of Mary. This should have and could have been a stunning moment, but it was over in the blink of an eye. Andrew Dabb needed the support he never got. Robert Singer was tired and it showed. The show stopped growing completely after Season 12. I can't help but wonder what Ben Edlund and the other original writers would have done differently.

[@cynthiaholmes5124]

God I really hate season 12 I hated mary I didn't like the fact that crowley was killed off in such a ridiculous way and all of the retconning storylines that dabb did and continuing to mistreat female characters in the series like the storyline of Lucifer impregnate Kelly Kline that's straight up rape I especially hated that one just total garbage plus the character of Jack is most definitely a retcon character of Jesse Turner from season 5 😠😡🤬🤢🤮🤪🤯🥶

[@jimthecat1060]

Omg Chucks quote from Swan Song almost made my cry again xD Great video! I have to agree with what you said about the fanbase eaiting everything what the writers give them. I saw so many people saying the Season 14 finale was as good as Swan Song - or even better. Like wtf, can you believe this? They ruined Chuck and the whole lore of the show for a last "epic" bad guy, and the fans love it. I just don't understand. Like I said before, for me the show ended with the fantastic Season 11.

[@william_snakespeares]

Chuck could have been an awesome bad guy but they just didn't write him well as that.

[@michaelmorris589]

@@william_snakespeares Sorry, I disagree. He was never going to be a 'good' bad guy, because when God is the bad guy, there's no tension, you're just waiting to see how he decides to end it all. Nothing the characters do should matter, as their foe (should be) omnipotent.

[@kanwaljeetkaur984]

Dude thanks I needed this.. I was talking this whole finale way to seriously..lol.. I was crying until now.. Bt cry no more😅 .. I was looking up for a reason this all ended horribly.. Guess I found it. Now I am at peace ✌

[@misti-step]

once the show ends, im literally so excited for the tell all books and interviews that explain all the behind the scenes goings on

[@ultravioletpisces3666]

Same

[@AmineSamus]

I'm on season 12 and after watching season 11 i kept telling myself that if they ended the show here, i could forgive all the dumb writing decisions and retcons they made so far and still think it's one of the best shows i've seen. Because seriously, season 11 finale made it seem like the grand story was coming to an end with Dean's funeral speech and all these characters making cameos and coming back, with the literal God himself, and Amara (a being stronger than God) being the villain (and a good one at that, in my opinion). But then I saw this random British chick at the last episode and I just knew that they're going to drag this out even more. And then I saw Mary and I rolled my eyes. If these next four seasons are that bad, my head canon will just be that the show ended after season 5, and seasons 6-11 were 'bonus' seasons while 12-15 didn't exist.

[@nomadpurple6154]

By now I guess you have watched the last 4 seasons. I extended much sympathy to you. I totally agree with your final sentence. I'm now rewatching 1-5, it's heaven :)

[@angelaholmes8888]

I'm rewatching season 5 the later seasons of supernatural don't even compare to the golden age of the show

[@MasonGrant0704]

I just finished the show and season 11 would've been the right time to wrap it up. Seasons 12-15 have some good episodes in the mix but too many bad ones to ignore.

[@dawn_bestofj2]

I wish someone would write a tell all book about "Supernatural" the post-Kripke years. I'm sure there are many interesting stories to tell. I agree Dabb was a terrible show runner. I heard the writer's room under is reign was heavily divided which could explain why his years are such a mess. I wasn't a fan of the AU and all of the returning characters. I thought they should just stay dead. Hated Luifer sticking around for so long. Cass had long out worn his story arch. They didn't know what to do with him - one week he has power and the next he didn't. The retconning and disregard of the lore was horrible. Buckner & Ross-Lemming were guilty of this quite often. I hated Chuck/God as the final big bad. It just didn't work. I did like the finale. I thought the barn scene was epic but then Jared and Jensen improvised the dialogue.

[@gemqueen1866]

Castiel, an angel of the lord, a soldier. Yet he ended up being an entity who naively made mistake after mistake. Easily taken in by his own kind. The power he had came and went really without explanation. His introduction was epic, after that he seemed to spend his time mooning over Dean.....I mean wtf!

[@angelaholmes8888]

Yeah making god the final big bad of the series was so stupid chuck to me is one of the worst villains in the show's history right next the British men of letters and the leviathans

[@maxb8847]

do you think with jared and jensen being more involved with season 15 will make that season 15 better than the past seasons?. i want eric kripke and some of the writers from the past to come back and be involved for the finale season.

[@tzswei]

well they're professional actor I'm sure they will live up to it. They might hide disappointment. To be honest, there's constraint timeline getting people back, but it doesn't mean scriptwriter stop writing best, they only need Dean be written well rounded character as his character had put off some fan dramatically from watching SPN anymore. Sam and Cas are fine, writers need to be fair to Dean be empathic stop writing typical Dean's line but really writing Dean's cool trait and his complexity.

[@gemqueen1866]

@@tzswei Yes there was more to Dean in the earlier seasons, then bizarrely they turned him into a dick who was forever stuffing food into his mouth and who watched porn all day....for goodness sake!

[@dash4800]

From what I've seen Jensen did t like it but I guess they had no real power and just had to deal with it.

[@GeekyNerdTheatre]

I just came across this video, and have to say that you've taken the words right out of my mouth at almost every point. The lack of leadership in the writer's room is clear. There are a few ideas that I think were risky, but could have worked if they had committed to them. But, often those ideas are almost immediately dropped or pulled back on. It's evident that either Dabb or Singer (most likely Singer) cares way more about pleasing the fanbase and keeping up the ratings as opposed to telling a good story. I recognize not everything is Dabb's fault. From hire ups, the boys needing more time off, and obvious budget cuts, it's clear he was doomed from the start, but he certainly didn't go out of his way to help himself either. I was hoping, given it's the final season, there would therefore be less pressure on the ratings and they could be a little more creative. But, it only seems like they've doubled down on a lot of their choices. I'm curious to see how Dabb does as a showrunner when he's not under Singer. I wasn't a big fan of Carver either, but he's currently writing my favorite show on television with Doom Patrol, so I guess if he can surprise me, I can give Dabb a second chance. Just wish he hadn't drained all of the energy out of my favorite show.

[@erickvoshel1]

Hello Mr. Hannaford, I agree that the season finale was horrible & that turning God into the main villain was the biggest mistake the show has ever made, so I'll be tuning season 15 out. I think the real trouble started when the CW passed on doing the "Wayward Sisters" spin-off in which Dabb could have incorporated some of these abruptly dropped story-lines into that show & would have made tem work. "Wayward Sisters" was the perfect way of attracting new viewers to the "Supernatural" brand, while also enticing the fans that had been with the franchise (like me) since day one that wanted to see a group of butt-kicking women take on the mantle of fighting the darkness, but the CW chose not to move forward with it. Strange, since they were willing to move forward with "Legacies" which is the second spin-off of "The Vampire Diaries" franchise. ( Love "Legacies" by the way) & are willing to have another "Riverdale" spin-off called "Katy Keane" about a girl that hopes to make it big in The Fashion World." The first "Riverdale" spin-off is "The Chilling Adventures of Sabrina" which airs on Netflix. Not to mention the "Batwoman" spin-off that they have green-lit despite the character appearing in one episode in their endless "Arrowverse. My point is that all these spin-offs are different. They are not rehashes of the same thing the way that "Supernatural" is. The CW has to share the blame in this in the fact that they have willingly sabotaged any attempt to do a spin-off of "Supernatural". Then they come up with some lame excuse why they couldn't move forward with it. The CW claims to have faith in the "Supernatural" franchise, but clearly don't have enough faith in the property to let it grow & expand beyond the two boys. The CW, it seems is determined to keep "Supernatural" in a bubble, which in my opinion has contributed to the show being the trainwreck it is now. What is your view?

[@juliefruscella3102]

Well said. I thought something was wrong with me for not enjoying the last 3 seasons as much as the previous seasons. I really don't like what they did to God and a lot of what they (Dabb) did to the show is one big giant lie and an FU to the show, including to the boys and to the fans. Making God the final seasons big villain and bringing back things they've killed is like a greatest hits, but isn't that super lazy? We cant think of anything else, so lets make God a dick and bring creatures/ghosts back to keep the boys busy. I also noticed how the show has been shot, much like the crap that is now (has been for many seasons) Criminal Minds.

[@JeremyHannaford]

It's pure fan service now. It's easy to do and requires little effort. I feel that the boys have noticed this are going to make some administrative decisions to prevent this kind of horrible writing.

[@juliefruscella3102]

@@JeremyHannaford Sadly, I know about the fan service, why I cringe at CW's promos for their shows. I just hope season 15 is done right, like season 5...if we can get that lucky. Bring back the creator and some writers and make it right, but I cant put that much "faith" in Dabb. Hopefully, the boys can help with that.

[@lorenzdizon1912]

For me, the worst thing that happened is the writers killing death. Come on! As old as God, maybe older. He was locked up deep in the underground and the last time they hauled them up, Noah was building a boat for the great flood, and he was killed with a single swing of his scythe? A single sudden swing. They killed every monster boss with numbers of episodes until they finallh get the kill. And they just killed a powerful being just like that? And the next reaper to die becomes the new death? What a joke. Lol

[@selin6749]

and the fact that there was literally no reason for dean to kill death? like, what was the reason? he could've just said "nope, i changed my mind and i'm not sacrificing my brother," and death would be like "okay." that and bringing mary winchester back pissed me off.

[@michaelmorris589]

@@selin6749 Death did say he'd kill Sam if Dean didn't. But I agree, the whole bit seemed unnecessary.

[@SteezWeisez]

I understand why Carver killed Death, even if it seems really dumb. Death is the most powerful character in Supernatural and when you introduce Darkness in the writers room - you think of characters who can kill her, they killed Death so that there would be an opportunity to develop their antagonist in season 11 and it's a perfectly valid idea, even if some people don't like it.

[@purdyculliz]

Why would Death hand the one thing that can kill him to Dean, stand within range and order him to kill Sam or he'd do it. He had to know Dean wouldn't do it... plus it should have just destroyed his vessel, not "killed" him. It was just lame. Supposedly it was a project conflict/salary issue with the actor playing Death so they had to kill him off

[@Ravenzita]

Don't forget a portion of the fandom call him the Destiel prophet....*epic facepalm* yeah right, he is mostly a puppeteer of those ambitions.

[@JeremyHannaford]

Omg that's just ridiculous

[@moribundtoot8183]

I have to agree with everything that you have said. Every season they would introduce so many storylines that just went nowhere and were dropped with no explanation. The first 5 seasons I really enjoyed but have struggled from 6 - 14. Far too much focus on angels and demons to the point where both factions were reduced from something incredibly powerful to a really bad punchline.

[@blinkfilms1]

i have not seen enough spn video essays so thank you for this in advance

[@mariemite.4935]

i am woooooooooooondering what you guys all think now about THE ending of supernatural. :D

[@j.mirare]

Thank you for this! Now I feel a little bit better knowing many people feel the same way about later seasons of the show. Like I remember I was 13 or 14 and loved it sm, loved characters, loved the story, but then I just stopped at season 9 and didn't touch it for many years. Now I'm 22 and decided to rewatch and finally finish the series...but oh god. I fully understand why I stopped watching it many years ago. I started to dislike the plot since demon dean and mark of cain so it was hard to keep watching. Of course there were some great filler episodes but in general it was not that supernatural and characters that I fell in love with. I can't make myself watch sth after season 11, because they returned Mary and I hate this, also main characters seems off and not like themselves, a continuous lie, hypocrisy(especially Dean, and he was my fave character but again I can't make myself like him when he behaves in a such way), buІІshіt they do and say, how they treat Cass.. I hate this. I will not watch the last seasons cuz you know I just wanna pretend nothing of this happened. I know all the spoilers, know how it ends but I'm not bying what they're selling

[@horsesrunwild1]

A few qualms. The "Oscar" worthy acting wasn't because it was a great scene or we hadn't seen it a million times. It was just nicely well acted. The "fandom" didn't eat everything up. Like you most of us just wanted closure. So we kept watching. Also some people came in via reruns or Netflix and weren't burned out. I think that's why the numbers remained steady.

[@distudio13]

For me it's the personal stuff. The one thing I loved about season 12, despite the BMOL being skipable, is the sense of stability in the family. However the minute we got comfortable with that thought, suddenly Crowley deserves to die, Cas deserves to die, and Mary gets thrown to another world. There was no respect for what each extended character stood for anymore. And the more people removed, the more issues with Sam and Dean's characters. And you're right that's not even covering the blatant ignorance to continuity details (your Mark Sheppard clips). The only save and grace was every other creator holding on as long as possible to trying to maintain the extended family unit, and the series finale had to ruin that as well?! All in all, I think a lot of this is more likely 100% Network involvement than anything else. The network loved the fact that this series made history as "longest running fantasy show," loved that people to this day still find the show anew and binge it, and want to keep making money off of these incredibly talented actors. If I'm being honest with myself, the only reason I didn't walk away after season 12 is because of how much I care about the actors themselves. And Just as an aside, the general public audience does not think about writing that much, so when people throw out the words Oscar worthy, they mean the amount of great emotion coming from the actor. In the heat of the moment I loved that moment too, but that was all because of Jared and Jensen bringing their A+ acting as always.

[@LifeAfterNeverland]

I completely agree with you! Thanks for giving me some background info on this. Over the years I have had very up and down feelings about my favorite show and certain storyline choices. Still love it, but couldn't agree with u more.

[@AlexCorporations]

It hurts more now, after it all ended, but s15 had a few good episodes, I believe each season had a few good or interesting episodes but they completely destroyed Cas’ character in the sense that he became a joke or scape goat. My favorite character is Cas but the past few seasons hurt me to see how far they made him go, he’s not even respected by the brothers anymore. S14 should have had Cas smiting rooms of monsters that couldn’t give him the location of Dean, not being a damsel in distress, they killed his powers more and more for budget. The brothers were reduced back to their season 1 selves and it destroyed the show. Screw Andrew Dabb

[@JeremyHannaford]

I had always voiced that Cas had become a useless side kick near the end. I just started reviewing Season 4 and it's incredible to see how much of a badass important character he was in the beginning. If you are interested, I've already reviewed the first two episodes and will be doing so every Thursday until I finish the season 🙂

[@AlexCorporations]

@@JeremyHannaford I’ll keep that in mind. I just wish they could mix the good they had from the beginning with the few good concepts they had later on. And to me, fan service isn’t always bad, a little bit or occasional episode can do a lot or renew a lot of fun in the show (Scoobynatural to me is a great example of fan service done right.) The only thing I wish if they were ever to redo the series is to give Cas and the other beloved major side characters a better chance at being important or not a joke.

[@cynthiaholmes5124]

Yes you are right that's one of my biggest problems with the final four seasons was also because of the way castiel was treated I really didn't like it even though he was the one who had the most compelling story arcs I hated the way sam and dean treated him and to not have him in the finale was just so wrong dabb had castiel erased because of the confession scene he didn't allow any closure between him and dean 🤯😠😡🤬

[@katyburch6593]

I'm honestly surprised that Dabb hasn't gone all Destiel by now. And as bad as he is, he doesn't hold a handle to Scott Gimple, who may have single-handedly ruined The Walking Dead. Look, SPN has had a good run. One problem with episodic TV is that the writers are stuck not knowing when they are going to get the word that the show is ending and they have to try to cobble together something cohesive. Another problem is that the plot lines dictate the show ends at a certain point and the writers are stuck with having to go beyond that point because the ratings are good and the show is staying on way past where the ending of the show should have been. (An example of this is The Mentalist. Not only was the discovery of the identity of Red John a huge letdown, the show went on for two more seasons of just dreck afterwards.) In all honesty, it is time for SPN to end and I hope they do right by it. If it's all just a book by Chuck, I think it will be a real middle finger to the fans -- like the ends of St. Elsewhere or Lost. But the season 14 finale with the souls coming back from hell to....wtf? Motorhead? was fantastic. To use that song was a departure and I thought it was a good thing and one of the only hopeful moments in Season 14. Seasons 1-6 were fantastic as well as season 11, so how much can we complain that there were 7 great seasons of a show to watch? Your points are very well made, Jeremy.

[@ultravioletpisces3666]

Homestly... I think dabb probably thinks he's a genius because he keeps us all debating and fighting about destiel because they always give us just enough for bait and not enough for confirmation.

[@caelyn2873]

I agree. Is it bad I miss the ghost facers? They add such comedy without trying so hard. I would like the see a ghost facers episode even though they are in a apocalypse world

[@GeorgeLucas_TaintedLegacy]

Clicked on this video 3 years after it was released, and it couldn't be more relevant. I've recently been rewatching Supernatural and was instantly reminded of why I stopped watching it 3 episodes into S12. The show should have ended at the end of S5, but if they were going to continue it, then S11 gave it a perfect opportunity to end it in spectacular fashion.....aside from Mary being revived.

[@tokyochatelaine7295]

still rings true to this day

[@markwilmot216]

I’m really glad I gave up after 7... I own 1-7 on DVD but that season sucked so hard... I know there’s good moments later but I’d have to watch it all if I got back into it and I just don’t have the desire to deal with the garbage. I hope S15 is good for everyone who has stuck with this show.

[@JACK27909]

As Both Jensen and Jared have said they want to come back to Supernatural in the future. I wish Jensen can some how convince Kripke to come back as well and that maybe HBO Max would foot the bill for the show. They could do 8-10 episode and 5 seasons and with the budget retell the og story of the the brothers. I wish! I thought the show should have ended after 5 seasons. The last couple of seasons were really hard to watch. A lot of rehashing of same ideas. Basically everything your saying here. It was hard to see the show ended but the ending was not that great. S15E19 should have been the last episode.

[@inugami78]

I think something is happening in 2025. I just think it will be a movie or limited add on series.

[@blinkfilms1]

Ugh yeah speaking as someone who was a rabid fangirl in 2015-16 i quickly dropped off after season 12. though they aren't my least favorite seasons, i'd say 12-14 are the worst seasons of the show. not only because of production value, but even the episode to episode writing and directing fell so flat. it felt like i was watching any other show on the cw, not supernatural. there are episodes in there that i love, but those are the exceptions, not the rule. the thing you said about fanservice kinda rubbed me the wrong way, but i think i agree with what you're getting at. it felt like he was just throwing things at the wall to see what stuck, instead of picking a storyline and developing it. speaking as someone who loved pretty much everyone killed off originally, i h a t e d the apocalypse world storyline. it was boring, uninspired, and spat in the face of the characters we and the boys had mourned for so long. apocalypse bobby makes me want to claw my eyes out. a pale imitation of a great thing. the thing about seasons 12 and 13 at least is they have emotional narratives they're trying to tell. i like what jack adds to the tfw dynamic. i like sam learning to become a leader. i don't like basically any of the actual plotlines though, which, i think, could have just as much to do with singer's meddling as it does anything else. i've heard a lot of stories about emotional beats and whole character arcs getting cut by execs because they thought it wouldn't sell well. i honestly think that's how we ended up with three seasons of a soap opera. three seasons of sam and dean doing motw style hunts and coping with their trauma accrued over the past decade could have been really compelling television. sure, throw in a baddie or two, but make it center around the boys and how they have and haven't changed since the beginning. with execs breathing down your necks telling you to make everything bigger and more engaging, i can understand how you'd end up with things like lucifer the yo-yo and gabriel as last ditch efforts to keep things 'exciting'.

[@CoastDreamz]

I agree with a lot of what you've said, and have said some of the same things over the years. I've often complained that Dabb has never cared as much about respecting canon or character history as I'd like him to. He actually said as much during a panel many years ago. During the first 5 seasons. I'm paraphrasing him in saying that fans don't really care that much about the little things. He seemed to think that as long as you gave fans what they wanted, the rest was basically set dressing. Well, not this fan. I care a lot about respecting what's come before in a show, and NOT retconning. And if you did do something counter to what should be possible, that there was a really good explanation. I also don't think it's all Dabb. There is Singer, like you said. Who I think should have stepped back and taken a smaller role. The fact that the season 13 finale happened like it did is all on him. That flying fiasco part of the final fight should never have made it to air. It was clearly off and he should have done something. Budget be damned. Fix it. Editing could have done a lot. That kind of treatment makes him seem careless, or just lazy. Not respecting us. Then there is the lead writing team, who also has some bad habits, and doesn't seem to respect things like they should. They all have talent, but maybe have been doing this too long? That said, I've still continued to love the show. I complain a lot, but that's just because I know it can do better. The problems were not insurmountable. Someone needed to take the rein and say "we need to fix this". But it's like they were all on cruise control or something. And I'm not fully upset at S14 finale. Surprisingly. I did like some of the things you called fan service. Yes, character developed is important. I do see character development shown in this season, though. For Sam and Dean. Some flubs, where it was using old gimmicks, but overall decent. There's also just needing to acknowledge that a person can only change so much. They'll fall back on old habits at times. Especially at times of stress. It was pretty obvious that the finale was pretty meta. I guess a lot could be read in all of that. Perspective is really key with that, though. Which direction you're coming from. I at first hated what I saw with Chuck. Totally agreed with you. Now, I can see how it could have been that way from the beginning. Because he was lying. Playing everyone. He put himself into the story. It wasn't cleanly done, and there were holes in how they did the final episode with Chuck. That was pititful. Unless it was done on purpose. I guess the final season will give the answer. Knowing that Jensen and Jared will be involved gives me mixed feelings. I'm happy on one hand, but worried on another, because of potential difficulties in adding new people to a team that's been coasting along together for years. Should be interesting. Would love the be a fly on the wall.

[@adoptdontshoppets]

Michele I so agree with you on the “flying fiasco” in the season 13 finale. I’m now scared anytime Singer is listed as director. He should have known they didn’t have enough usable footage and kept going or switched to film the fight on the ground. It is still so sad to me that after the magnificent entrance of Michael!Dean unfurling his wings to trumpets singing, we are left laughing at a cartoonish aerial fight that was supposed to impress. Ugh.

[@katiebird6929]

I’m currently making my way through the show and am currently on Season 7. I thought Seasons 1-5 are fantastic and Season 6 was a decent epilogue, in a way. Season 7 is weird to me as it started out great (the first episode is one of my favourites of all time), but it’s definitely going through the motions, so much so that I just take the piss out of it now. I told the ending of the show to a friend and she laughed and said it sounded awful.

[@angelaholmes8888]

Yes the finale was so awful and boring

[@plaguedoctor4519]

I'm glad I'm not the only one who noticed the aesthetic change to the show!! I miss the more "dark and shadowy" filter to the show from the first 3 or 4 seasons. I remember when I started watching the show, I was like 6 or 7, I remember some episodes scaring me. Some Supernatural fans hate the monster of the week episodes but I always loved them. That's always been at the roots of the show and the brothers taking down a spirit or monster and them trying to figure out what it is and how it works always intrigued me because they are fighting a spirit or monster they don't know much about or sometimes they think they do and it actually doesn't work that way. Just the unknown of what they are fighting and having that creepy vibe to it all was always something about the show I loved in the first few seasons, especially the first 3 when they had that dark filter over it

[@plaguedoctor4519]

@FlyingMonkies325 yea that's understandable why they decided to change it, and maybe it's just me but I would have loved 5 more seasons of that aesthetic and monster of the week format 😅 just because the mystery of a new monster or ghost and finding out what it is and how to take it out is always intriguing to me. Especially the more scary they can make it. I love the show as a whole regardless and the many directions it went and I love the characters so much too so I'm not disappointed or anything, just something as I rewatch it I started to miss a lot lol

[@JoshuaL0]

I don't think it's entirely Andrew dabb's fault as to why this show is not great anymore. It probably is a collective effort from Robert singer, some writing from dabb, and no point of this show really happening anymore because where do you go from season 11. They should of end it there or all the way back to season 5 but CW is like nope. You also mention seasons 8,9,and 10 which I thought we're good but is pretty much forgettable like Sam's relationship with the woman in the first half of 8 or their grandfather Henry timetraveling to their present. Hopefully season 15 is a solid season that ends with a satisfying and good note. It can't top season 5's ending

[@JohnWinchester3567]

Nope Carver trashed it. Singer been there season 1 and Dabb season 5. Show started to suck season 8

[@JAke-dk8pw]

Well this aged well

[@nomadpurple6154]

@@JohnWinchester3567 You didn't see season 7 !!???

[@funkyreapercat5280]

I agree that Dabb was the worst showrunner and i dislike Seasons 12, 13 and 15. But i do like Season 14, having Michael as the big bad and having Jensen as Michael was cool. I think it's a fine season.

[@gemini72aust43]

THANK YOU! I pretty much agree with everything you said regarding the last three seasons, and as a fan who's been watching since 2005, the last 3 years have been frustrating, and I have zero excitement for season 15 (and from the looks of it season 15 won't be airing in Australia).

[@JeremyHannaford]

What? Why won't it be airing in Australia?

[@gemini72aust43]

@@JeremyHannaford I was trying to find out when season 15 would air, and couldn't find a date (we're usually less than a week behind). I eventually came across a reddit thread where someone was asking how they could watch season 15 legally because channel 10 wasn't going to air it. Even though my excitement level is low, I wanted to watch this last season without spoilers (which is really hard to do when youtubers post episode clips straight away and post spoilers in the video title, which would then be sent to me as recommendations.... I'm looking at you Wayward Winchester).

[@herrdiy4714]

the show has obviously gotten a lot worse since andrew dabb took over but honestly it's been going downhill since the last scene of season 5. there were some good episodes and ideas after that but if it had just ended with chuck vanishing, dean going back to lisa & ben and sam in hell it would have easily been one of the greatest shows of all time but since they wanted to keep going it was obvious that supernatural was gonna get milked till it's death just like the simpsons or spongebob squarepants

[@fantasynerd3695]

The carver era was very solid. Season 8 to 11 was great!

[@cynthiaholmes5124]

@@fantasynerd3695 yeah Jeremy Carver was definitely a great successor to Eric kripke season 8 and 10 and 11 are in my top 5 best seasons 😚😇🥳🤠🌟

[@robanah]

Someone posted this on twitter, so I'm just posting this for fun: "Andrew Dabb has one year to decide whether he wants to go down as the worst showrunner in SPN history who single-handedly destroyed a legendary show & J2's life work or as the showrunner who pulled the best plot twist in SPN history Please Dabb don't choose the first" I honestly don't think it's Dabb though, I think it is Singer and his wife Eugenie who are ruining the show, looking at some of the clips from the comic con from last year, and from Paley Fest... The way she talks it's pretty obvious!

[@JeremyHannaford]

Can you link some?

[@robanah]

@@JeremyHannaford These are the full panels, I can't find clips though kzbin.info/www/bejne/gmSvqXeimNR_gbM kzbin.info/www/bejne/pYKQoWlua7GWfZI

[@JeremyHannaford]

Thanks yoh! Can I get a link to the twitter post too?

[@JeremyHannaford]

Oh my god, the amount of ear splitting squeeing in the Paley Fest video, is a perfect assumption of my view of the current majority fanbase. They are literally screaming in between every other major statement so far. It's like a god damn Beatles concert. They will eat up any fucking garbage Dabb will write.

[@robanah]

@@JeremyHannaford I think this is her/his twitter page... I don't know how to post just the tweet on here twitter.com/DeanSamFreak

[@ColeTrainWayne]

I agree with everything but I kinda liked Rick Springfield as Lucifer, felt he brought some menace back to Luci, when I felt they turned Marks Lucifer into a walking gag.

[@MasonGrant0704]

I agree with you, I got sick of how Mark was playing Lucifer, he was just getting more annoying and childish. Rick actually played the character in a serious way and made him scary again.

[@evanrodrigues9444]

season 5 is the cannon ending

[@sdl1ishappy]

Late to the party, but I really enjoyed this rundown. As you say so eloquently, the show painted itself into a corner, and Dabb was just not capable of taking the risks necessary to get himself out of it. Fan Service can be fun when it's done delicately and sparingly but this show always had a complex relationship with its fans and its loudest fangirls, especially. I mean, they weren't shy about mocking them weren't they? And don't get me started on the queerbaiting with Dean and Cas. The show teased those fans so much they felt like they had to do something, despite the fact that it was never realistically going to happen, and that was botched. Dabb, after all, had written a few gags about it where it was clear he thought the idea was funny and so, again, wrong person to paint the show out of a corner. Mary coming back to somehow be what John was in the early seasons, also botched. Crowley, horribly botched. And trying to recreate Swan Song but reversing the brothers' roles and dropping a bridge on Dean was...well a choice. Dabb's seasons really feel like a campy parody of the show's earlier seasons. It's like watching Tim Burton's Batman become Joel Schumacher's Batman. Or Nolan's Batman because Batman V. Superman.

[@KevinRyman1000]

Thank you, CW shows are trash or turned into trash fast, Supernatural was my only reason to watch the network and seasons 13, 14, and 15 were horrible

[@marydodge9844]

I normally don't pay a lot of mind to reviews of shows/movies/books just because they're kind of irrelevant if the person doing the review doesn't have tastes at least somewhat similar to mine to begin with. It's still a valid opinion, of course, I just don't let them guide my choices of what to watch/read/listen to. But all of your videos that I've watched so far tell me your perspective very closely matches my own, so I'm happy to find a voice I can actually pay attention to!

[@evawoods324]

the only good thing that come out of this show for last ... hell knows, how many years, is the panels and gag reels, and stuff. i watch show only because of Cas, i love him. but must admit it's bad, and logic is dead here. also, fun service is not all that good... like bringing back few characters is not good enough. you have to do interesting things with them.. which they didnt....

[@gemqueen1866]

For me its Dean, but the character was way wasted in terms of his abilities in the early seasons, to now when he is portrayed as an unreconstructed, cave-dwelling idiot! With all the tools and knowledge at their disposal, the boys seemed to be easily out-smarted and out maneuvered each time.

[@noamdsi123]

I think the main problem with Dabb is that he doesn't make good on his promises. Like he'll set up something that may even have some potential, but then he doesn't deliver. It's really frustrating to watch. I think a lot of the ideas he introduced could have worked if he actually sat down and thought them through, but because he didn't it all turned into fan service.

[@JeremyHannaford]

He has constantly dropped storylines or plot elements over the years and it's infuriating

[@noamdsi123]

@@JeremyHannaford It really is. There are so many issues with his writing, and some of them I can sympathise with - like the next big bad problem of being stuck having to up the stakes with an even badder villain, but what I truly can't forgive him for is the way he handles the characters. He'll have the brothers say heroic shit, but then have Dean be an absolute dick to Castiel for no reason just so that destiel shippers can fanfic about them making up. They'll have Jack lose his soul but still have him obviously showing emotions. They'll have characters talking about how Jack is their son but then show us nothing to even hint at that - unless you count that one time they thought he was going to die and Dean took him fishing. He legitimately made me hate Dean, and I used to absolutely love him. He was funny and serious when he needed to be and you knew what he was all about, but he's so dark and brooding now that I can't stand watching him anymore. If it was introduced as character development then it would at least have an excuse, but it's just lazy writing. But that's his problem. He sets things up and then forgets about them completely, both plotlines and characters. God this pisses me off! Ok rant over.

[@JeremyHannaford]

Yeah I definitely will agree with you on Dean. He has made him a cranky ass. I kind of think that's Jensen as well though. Whenever he dips back into humour or funny, it makes no sense to his current character now because he's always either the violent or go out dying or pissing on Cass for something type. Cass has caused several world ending events so I can kind of blame him for some aggression but the fact that Dean was sour at him for the longest time, because he covered up Jack's murder of Mary, baffles me because it was such a HORRIBLE storyline

[@noamdsi123]

@@JeremyHannaford I think I understood his anger to a certain point, but then if I'm not getting this wrong I think he legit told him something like "You're dead to me" and I just thought it was the most melodramatic thing ever. It was so over the top. The only realistic thing that came out of it was Cas taking off on his own because hs realized that there was no talking to him, even if it didn't last for very long. It was a good direction. They had that one episode where he was on his own and I suddenly remembered that I used to like his character. When he's with the brothers his personality is almost non-existent. Also yeah, the Mary storyline was awful. Especially when they framed it with Dean being given the thing he needs most. Mary left them after basically five minutes. Pretty sure he didn't need to feel abandoned.

[@mohammadshermansauffiwilli7997]

Thank you for this..... we all gonna missed this show....

[@frogman656]

I also think a big problem with the show is the limitations of its structure. It becomes very derivative when the monster of the week episodes seem very similar and start to blend together and many become forgettable. I felt the same way about The X-files. The structure of that show was very similar and as that series went on, each episode became more generic. Both shows I think could have benefited from a change in their story structures to keep things fresh. When the people in charge of a show keep doing the same thing year after year it eventually leads to complacency and stagnation which is what I think has happened to the show. They've gotten into a comfortable routine which has hurt their ability to be creative and write interesting stories. This is evident in the fact that Dabb would keep dropping main characters and story lines to have the lame monster of the week episodes because that's the structure of the show they're most familiar and comfortable with. No room to take chances and develop compelling stories.

[@erickvoshel1]

Those are my thoughts as well. The key to maintaining a franchise is to take risks & evolve, but "Supernatural" hasn't done that. Now it could have with abandoned spin-off "Wayward Sisters." Now both "Vampire Diaries" & "Doctor Who" have shaken up their established formulas with great success over the years & are prime examples of how to maintain a franchises' success while taking chances & developing new characters & compelling story-lines. The "Vampire Diaries" franchise has found success in the form of two spin-offs: "Legacies" & "Originals" by going beyond it's original premise, while "Doctor Who" the longest running Sci-Fi Program in history credits it's success to changing it's lead actor every three or four years, sometimes there is even a creative overhaul behind the scenes with the show-runner, the writers & everything else. Even though "Legacies" was created by the same team that gave us "Vampire Diaries" & "The Originals", "Legacies" felt like a complete overhaul of the entire "Vampire Diaries" franchise that made it feel new & fresh while staying true to what made the franchise so great in the first place. It introduced us to new characters & situations while opening up new possibilities for the franchise.

[@frogman656]

@@erickvoshel1 You bring up a good point about Doctor Who. Maybe Supernatural needed a brief hiatus and then come back stronger under new and better leadership and revamp the show to be more cutting edge. To me Supernatural feels like a stale relic from the early 2000's that never updated or adapted to the changing times. The new seasons of X-files the last couple of years felt the same way, it was like the show was trying to imitate a modern show like Black Mirror, but was still stuck in the 90's structure and formula of the original series.

[@erickvoshel1]

That's why I feel that "Wayward Sisters" would have served as a complete revamp of the franchise or at least, would have proven that the "Supernatural" brand could go beyond Sam & Dean & explore new possibilities for the franchise, but the CW seemed determined to keep "Supernatural" in a bubble unwilling to take risks with it, so it chose not to move forward with it. Which has hurt the franchise. The boys are to blame too because they have gone along with it. I'm surprised that Jensen Ackles & Jared P. (can't pronounce his last name) have been on the show for as long as they have, but on further reflection I don't blame them really since the show has been their sercurity blanket & their bread & butter. Shows like "Doctor Who" & "The Vampire Diaries" franchises have seen main actors come & go, their formats get shaken up, & yet they're still here, still successful because they have the guts to try different things. "Supernatural" can be great again, but only if it is willing to go beyond Sam & Dean & shake up the formula. It needs to create new characters & situations for us to care about. This is the only way the "Supernatural" franchise can move forward. Unfortunately the CW seems unwilling to do that & the franchise is suffering for it.

[@CleverlyCoCo]

The end of the show is season 11 for me. I just hated how Dean felt one note once Dabb took over; Jensen could only do so much when the writing was lackluster.🤦‍♀️

[@bingewatcherfanatic996]

100% agree with you

[@DeeMon]

Great video!

[@The_Jupiter2_Mission]

Dabb had no grand vision for anything. He was small potatoes thinking 4 episodes ahead at most. Your hate for Dabb is near equal to my hate for Joe Malozzi who killed Stargate.

[@ONIFCstu123]

Wow great video, the time and effort is there

[@TanjaTHEAwesome]

I totally noticed the lighting and camera work and I get it. Like solid cinematography is going to take a talented team and for that you can't pay them cheap. Takes a lot to do moody noir-esque lighting and having each episode look movie quality. It's easy to slap on some flat as hell lighting and get your basic camera coverage saving on time and money which I guess they were running out of is shows in the writing and everything else and that really sucks. I watched the show when it first came out and then stopped around Season 7 tried to pick it up again but then completely left after the last episode of Season 10 because WTF was that. In general there were more and more moments of introducing something new, then abandoning it or completely re-writing something from the past or just killing off solid characters. Just felt like folks in the writer's room were never in agreement with anything.

[@angeloliver7613]

I'm actually glad they brought Mary back. They also should have bring Jess back in some kind of way. Both characters were fridged and it's way to normal to fridge female characters brutally. 🥺 I also like her character development. Just the way they killed characters in the latest seasons were just stupid. Crowley, Charlie, Mary...pointless deaths.

[@sarahzentexas]

Bravo. Couldn’t have said it better. You’re actually more generous than I am. Are you aware that Robert Singer’s wife is the co-writer of the absolute worst episodes in show history? Since season 1. Eugenie Ross-Leming. Utter nonsense, like 15.02. I think when a creator starts to write FOR any group of people, the product will be crap. Andrew Dabb proves that. Or, as I call him, PANDrew. Truly an all-time great panderer. Please make a video like this every week!

[@JeremyHannaford]

I've heard alot of stories about Singer's wife. I used to appreciate the guys work but now I can see they are just coasting on little effort

[@GhostwalkerSparrow]

Supernatural ended after season 5. The perfect ending imo where it left it open ended. Sam and Dean riding off into the distance in the Impala.

[@JeremyHannaford]

If you're interested, I would suggest the Swan Song review I just made. I'm always amazed at how Swan Song hits me the same way, even after all these years.

[@danceteacherrlb]

What im learning is doing put someone who writes one off episodes in charge of a show ala supernatural or dr who

[@melody053]

The show would need Kripke to fix the damage done and make season 15 worthwhile in its entirety and as “the end” finale. It’s def been dragging the last few years; sometimes when I watch I feel like...did they even know where they were going with this? One of my biggest peeves about the show is that they have disregarded the lore. Like you said this was probably done out of fan base and lack of creativity.

[@gemqueen1866]

The fans were more concerned with 'shipping' Cas and Dean which I found bizarre to say the least. Once they essentially stopped using lore as the basis for the stories, Supernatural lost its way!

[@rawstmv]

Too many shows do this, they go onto twitter and pander the fan base ships. No integrity.

[@gemqueen1866]

That and the lazy writing ruined the show, when you consider what the small minority of rabid fans wanted was not what the majority tuned in for. You could then see the writing (excuse the pun) was on the wall. A good show stands alone and if the script/story-line and directing is solid, and if they could've taken some stories over several episodes to see how it would play out. It would've been great. As it was some episodes with monster of the week was ok, but others needed time to 'slow burn' for a better effect. But instead......!

[@ultravioletpisces3666]

Do you have a video about Singer?

[@cristaandioni6794]

Andrew Dabb 🤝 trashing supernatural

[@ultravioletpisces3666]

Also, I HATED Rick Springfield as Lucifer, but then on rewatch I was more ok with it, for some reason. But im actuality, it did suck and the show is a lot different...

[@aDm219]

I liked the wedding episode.

[@chexlex1316]

I like it too just because its so nuts. But theres literally no point to it. Its just a fun episode it doesn't bring to the rest of the story.

[@nomadpurple6154]

I think what many object to is the portrayal of fans in that episode.

[@Sean0526a]

I thought it went to hell starting with season 12. I gave up in season 13. it became a caraciture of itself after that.

[@lisaseverance6785]

I can think of only one way that the Chuck line could be saved but it is weak at best. I seriously disliked how interesting characters would be introduced then killed off two episodes later or even in the same episode they were introduced! A total waste! And I am very concerned as to how it will end. Hopefully something good but likely something corny.

[@adoptdontshoppets]

Lisa Severance Yes! I was so sad when they immediately had Nick kill Abraxis instead of the other way around. It oils have been great to have a fun new terrifying demon on the show. Instead we were stuck with Nick all season.

[@ultravioletpisces3666]

Extremely corny.

[@altinaykor364]

completely agree

[@josephrush3166]

I quit after the revival of marry but check in from time to time. this show may have been a real gem if they stopped after season 5

[@FilmFan-iv7sz]

Wasn't he Co show runner with singer, so why dabb get all the blame??

[@tarny11]

The last 6 or so seasons have been bit disappointing . You could tell they was running out of storylines . Chuck, men of letters, bunker crowded just let it down . The darkness gave it a boost and it was like the original style of the show . Some of the best scenes I have ever seen is between the brothers .

[@justanothergabs4710]

I don't dislike Mary being brought back, honestly the worst stuff that happened to the show was the slow weakening of the angels, but up to season 11 it still made sense, since they fell in season 8, and got weakened, however the archangels, easily the worst problem seasons 12-15, the absolute fuc*ing worst problems, because they have absolute no reason to be such a joke, the fucking DBZ blasts that they shoot every now and then is so distracting to look at, it's such a different take at the nearly Lovecraftian nature of their being and power, it's horrible and the nerve to misuse what was established of their characters, Lucifer going over to god' side, Michael deceiving the two brothers, being an actual plain and simple liar, Gabriel being brought back and dying in like two or three episodes when he was not only a vital character to the downfall of Lucifer in season 5 he had a presence in the show since seasons 1 or 2 as the prankster joker guy, building up to a mystery, that was the worst the show did, EASILY, nothing came close to that, no British men of letters or alternate worlds or whatever else the show did was as bad as that Now, everything else, I thought that even at their worst, it was still okay, the British men of letters were good enemies, having a human enemy for once was interesting and the fact that they wouldn't simply be wiped out and instead be an actual seasonal enemy was cool, the way they also manipulate and lie, Mic was a great character, even with his death being so quick right at the moment he turns around, Crowley keeping Lucifer alive to torment him ended up making his character a bit more interesting, building up to his death where he finally decides to accept who he has become, not dancing around between being evil or good and just going with his flow and dealing with the consequences of his actions, also the fact that Crowley became the king of hell so unceremoniously helped this bit, since his childishness made more sense since the only bit of respect he got as a king of hell either came from fear or those far from him like the boys. I thought that Mary punching Lucifer wasn't that forced, it was clear already that they didn't give a flying fuck to Lucifer's character so to me having a Winchester punching an archangel is cool, also I could argue that Lucifer being punched and caught off guard was just him messing around with the idea of behaving human, since he was clearly enjoying himself while joining in on the whole human fighting thing, again, I hate it, but it's not impossible to try and see some good side to it Season 13 followed up by giving us Jack, the whole season 12 thing about Lucifer's kid led up to the fact that it was up to the kid's influence, what his powers would be used for, so it was nice for the boys to have to deal with this in their own way, Ketch's development was interesting, a little forced but interesting, when not about archangels, it was good, alternate Michael was forgettable, he existed, nothing good about him, nothing bad, he had no presence whatsoever and was nearly completely forgettable, Lucifer had a whole development this season only to end up in the most anticlimactic way possible, slowly turning around as a character but giving up on Jack completely was stupid, instead it would have been nice if they just had Jack kill Michael somehow, then have the same thing about Lucifer enjoying killing and the falling out, and have Lucifer kill everyone in the base and leaving, conflicted on his emotions about Jack, not the best finale but still, way better than what we got, the ugliest, the absolute disrespect of season 5 that was that final battle between Michael and Lucifer, it was, offensive, season 5 was all about avoiding that battle and just avoiding that we had casualties like, cities being wiped out, plagues, entire coasts being powered out, so much crazy crap only for it to end up being like, average London street fight, fuck off with season 13's ending there is nothing to salvage that except dichael, oh yeah, Gabriel, another archangel, yep, he was as important here as he was in season 7 of breaking bad, nothing else to say about that Like I said, if not for the archangels, the show is mostly okay after season 11, it's 99% the writing on the archangels that fu*ks everything up, although I'll say, death after season 10 is also a little janky, acceptable until season 15, where most of it is just bad overall

[@Chocobear555]

Honestly? I don't feel all that bad for Dabb. He *allowed* himself to become a product of the fan base. I think that both he and Singer could have fought for the integrity of the show, but they *both* chose to cave in to the demands of the more shallow members of the fan base. So why, exactly, should I feel sorry for either one of them? They allowed it to happen, and I think it's because they were too lazy to fight for the show's integrity!

[@fitryadesryana2047]

OMG... You are so right...

[@FilmFan-iv7sz]

In moriah the twist Doesn't the twist make the 14 seasons pointless as the boys still had to deal with everything that happened but the reveal that all the plans that had to stop where not thought of by themsrlf I. E lucifers return, livithans, crowley etc it was, all just god seems off somehow or am I misreading it

[@angelaholmes8888]

are you planning on making a video about the gamble era of supernatural once you're done watching season 6 and 7 🤔📺

[@JeremyHannaford]

Hmmmm that's not a bad idea ...

[@cynthiaholmes5124]

I totally agree with you I stopped watching this show twice once in the middle of season 7 and halfway through season 9 they should have brought back the half human half demon child at least or that boy whose mom was killed by dean or lisa and ben for the final season

[@rejuvinatez347]

jack worst character ever

[@DocKrazy]

Sam and Dean's characterizations swap back and forth with no rhyme or reason. Samantha Smith was obviously not into the whole "being a main part of the show all of a sudden" thing. Why are they allowing Misha Collins to do all these nonesensical accents a the time? Jared and Jensen seem exhausted. The scene that was praised despite being a rehash of the entirity of spn was mostly due to Jared being in a very bad place mentally and emotionally (allegedly I must add). Why do they keep bringing back Nick? What have they done to Gabriel? (my favourite character. Hated that stupid plot so much. And even then they couldn't get shit straight. It's been 8 years, not 7, and even then I have to be generous with that one year between s5 and s6) Billy. Just Billy. The show has lost all its heart over the years and I refuse to ackowledge the later seasons as canon. I'd rather write my own version of the spn fan fiction.

[@walkingcubkid]

11:38 not to mention season 6’s stupid “vampire cure” too...

[@hollykm]

I thought season 13 was pretty decent, actually. 12, 14, and 15 were shit. Also 13:48 I would disagree, i think their development stopped after season 11 ended.

[@cynthiaholmes5124]

You're right about season 11

[@ultravioletpisces3666]

Yes

[@walkingcubkid]

I hate that they made god into a villain, especially despite season 11 being bad still had that good episode with god and that ending song that made me hate the newer seasons even more than before

[@jonthenamelessproject99]

To be honest, my biggest issue with Supernatural is that every season, Either Sam, Or Dean, is lying to the other and then the other finds out and then an argument happens between the two, and this lasts literally the first half of every season, it got very boring for me after a while

[@amyfoss2492]

Hmm. I commented about this on JH's last review about the finale. However since watching this video I am even MORE #teamjeremy. The one thing I CANNOT stand is when shows don't use their own history. JH points this out several times. I don't know if it is Dabb's ego or Singer's puppet mastering but leaving several characters dangling (Anti Christ kid, Adam etc) for multiple seasons weakened the show. Having the same monsters (rugaroos, vamps and werewolves but ESPECIALLY rugaroos) making appearances and then suddenly finding a cure for lycanthropy seems unlikely. Why isn't there a cure for vampirism or rugarooism (is that even a word?). Why not start spreading the cures to these common played out monsters instead of hunting. Perhaps I should stop typing now before Dabb uses THAT as an idea for the final season and the show is re titled "Drs Winchester: Monster Curers, featuring Specialist Castiel" I freely admit I was one of the ppl (perhaps the only one but I can't find the screenshot) that thought it would be cool if Mary came back. Did Dabb take my suggestion because I am a fan? Who knows? But if he DID he went about it the WRONG WAY with writing. How stupid of her to get involved with Ketch (another dangling character)? I think that is part of the reason many fans hated her and NOT the PTSD she experienced that resulted in many fans calling her "cold" and lead to her being extraneous. That idea is based on the fact that Dabb was solely listening to fans and NOT thinking about character development. I didn't mind the Gabriel ret con since it meant a fan favourite was NOT left dangling. But the Kentucky Fried Demon (moniker credit to JH) was a joke. I thought he was going to be the new Crowley, can you say EPIC FAIL. Then I had some hope about Rowena being a new Crowley and I think they TRIED to spin it that way but if she is powerful enough to cage Luci, come back from the dead TWICE, once after being burned alive BY Luci then why can't they give her more to DO besides help the Ws once in a GREAT while. All I can say is the last season better be PHENOMENAL and have a great finale and Dabb and company better get on their game.

[@JeremyHannaford]

Sorry for the late response but I never thought I would ever see a #teamjeremy hashtag. Now I feel like I am the incredibly discounted bald hideous triple love triangle character from Twilight haha. Thank you for your comment though and I'm glad you enjoyed my points and the video

[@wiezyczkowata]

glad I'm not the only one who think that

[@mimimurlough]

Sure, Dabb is a terrible writer, but you're bring way to hard on the fans. The storylines in Supernatural haven’t been decent since Kripke era (and even that is a copy of Good omens). Most people wouldn't watch the show for the plot, it's the characters and their interactions that matter.

[@mimimurlough]

... which have also gone downhill, I noticed now. Holy hell, the last few seasons are bad