WC Knives AEB-L vs CPM 3V Edge Retention Comparison and My Thoughts

#wcknives #williamcollinsknives #knifetest
Demonstrate a edge retention test between AEB-L and CPM 3V steels and share my thoughts on the results. Both knives were heat and cryo treated by me in house.

[@harrisquicksilver6595]

Depends on the heat treatment dr. Larin Thomas explains the complex details on knife steel nerds, thanks for ur video, very useful & interesting info.

[@Meattrapper]

Very educational video. Amazing how much marketing hype there is in the knife world regarding the latest wundersteels. From my experience as a user blade geometry, heat treatment and design are more important than steel type. There seems to be a sweet spot in between 1095 and 3V, with O1, A2 and AEBL falling into that range. I've really become fond of AEBL after using it a while. I think it's probably the most under rated steel out there. I would love to hear your thoughts on A2 vs O1. My thought is that it's splitting hairs between the two as I've had good results with both and find it hard to tell a difference between them in real world use.

[@wcknives]

Thanks, A2 is a little more rust resistant but takes a bit more to sharpen so they are very comparable IMHO.

[@bobhabsolute4995]

3v is not supposed to have incredible edge retention but it’s supposed to be tougher. My opinion, if AEBL is not tough enough for you, check your techniques or get an axe. If you’re looking for a sharpened pry bar, WC knives are not for you. WC knives are cutting tools. AEBL being one of the best steel for cutting tasks (it was developed for razor blade, after all), it is a far better steel for the purpose intended for WC Knives. Steel should be chosen with adequacy to use and that’s what Mr. Collins has been doing for us. We should trust established knife makers, especially when they are also experienced users.

[@georgerector9252]

I suffer from DC-3/DC-4 fingertips. I inletted a small piece of wood to hold the stone that helps, a little. Box up that cut rope and sell as WC Wonder Fire starter.

[@harrisquicksilver6595]

Pete from cedric & ada channel said he tried so many times but he cant get the cecil rope to burn, idk this is just what he said, but i trust his word he is a very dedicated knife enthusiast and tester.

[@bobhabsolute4995]

3v is probably the steel that benefit the most of a coarse edge among those that I have tried. I am not the biggest fan of 3v. I have an hunter knife in S90v and a folder in k390 that are easier to sharpen (yes, I have diamond stones). I have a Puukko in 4v that hold a edge for ever and I have knives in 1095 and 14c28n that are so easy to maintain that they are a charm to work with. I also have tools in 52100 that can get so sharp that they their cuts leave a shine on the wood. The more I use knives, the more I pay attention to geometry and design and the less I care about the steel as long as it has a good heat treatment with a nice small grain.

[@attila2a746]

Thank you for the info on the different types of steel

[@lalli8152]

I dont personally care all that much what steel my knives are only that i get them sharp with just little touch up in the field. I would really like to try AEB-L since i have heard for stainless it sharpens very easy. I like typically carbon steels, but stainless for all around stuff including food use i think stainless makes lot of sense not to mention ease of maintenace. I have heard lot of companies dont heat treat that steel well, but your knives dont have that issue definetly. That Slim is still on my radar for my sort of EDC knife. Over here sadly i just cant legally walk in public with any knife so in town my knives stays home unless i have specific reason.

[@S.Vallieres]

Hi Mr. Collins, thank you very much for this edge retention test and video. You mentioned that 3V lab tested higher than AEBL for toughness. May I ask you what was the toughness test in particular? Were they both tested at same HRC and how much tougher was 3V (10%, 25%, ...)? Thanks a lot in advance for your help.

[@wcknives]

@@S.Vallieres I am going off of charts provided on the internet that show steel toughness a quick google search should get you started in the right direction.

[@S.Vallieres]

​@@wcknives Hi Mr. Collins, thanks a lot for replying. Well, I asked because it confused me when you said 3V tested higher than AEBL for toughness and I thought it was the result of lab testing you got done by an independent laboratory... The knife steels metallurgy source of information I consult and by far trust the most is Knife Steel Nerds run by Ph. D metallugist Larrin Thomas. In this article (Knife Steels Rated by a Metallurgist), Thomas gives a knife steels rating and for toughness he rates both 3V and AEBL at 9/10 in tables. From the Toughness-Hardness graphs, it looks like this: AEBL : 59 HRC ---> 40 ft-lbs (extrapolated) 60 HRC ---> 37 ft-lbs 61 HRC ---> 32 ft-lbs 3V : 59 HRC ---> 39 ft-lbs 60 HRC ---> 35 ft- lbs 61 HRC ---> 30 ft-lbs (extrapolated) So, they are basically the same as far as toughness goes from this source of information. This is why I was confused when you mentioned 3V lab tested higher than AEBL and would have liked to see the results you got.

[@wcknives]

@@S.Vallieres appreciate the information. Always learning.

[@richardhenry1969]

It’s been my experience (which is only with production knives in this steel) 3v is more marketing then reality. I read all these comments on the internet. They talk about toughness and edge holding. Yet every time someone I know pops up with a 3v blade it’s dull. Then it takes forever to sharpen. Yet my 5160 homemade from a 1974 car spring. Anyway my knife Easier to sharpen holds a edge an I bet tougher because mine has never chipped. Yet I’ve seen bark river 3v chipping. My second favorite is 14c28n I love that steel. I’ve never used AEBL . I just don’t trust internet experts because my experience is they follow whatever the fanboys say. Maybe I need to save up for one of your designs, they are very intriguing.

[@wcknives]

Have a complete playlist on my channel about the AEB-L and how it we tested it. Haven’t seen anything that can compare yet with it. Not even the so called super steels. All I can speak for though is my knives because they are all heat treated, cryo treated by me and RC tested in house.

[@DWMurry]

At Rockwell 60+ i have found the edges to be a little bit too "chippy" in use. Have you noticed or heard about less chipping in the 56-58 Rockwell ranges? For what i do to my blades it seems 58 is very durable and not so apt to chip. I have AEB-L, 80CrV2, S30V, D2,and the Victorinox Sandvik steels in my use rotations.

[@wcknives]

Nope, find it to be the opposite. For O1 and some of the other carbon steels then yes stay in the 55-58 range but for the higher end steels that I heat and cryo treat they perform better in the 60-63 RC range. Have many videos on field testing.

[@ElonaldTrusk]

If your edges are chipping, either convex them or sharpen more obtusely.

[@mikafoxx2717]

Rockwell doesn't influence chipping, toughness does. Highe toughness high hardness steels can hold a much finer edge without chipping(toughness) or bending/blunting(hardness)

[@1968gadgetyo]

I think AEBL was develop as a razor steel. It's sharper could be due to the smaller K2 carbides. Real lab test for 3V. Baton a red oak.😁😁. In a 'survival' situation, why do you risk breaking your knife? Want firewood, use an axe.

[@ZoneCrasher]

Silly, you most likely left with a knife in a survival situation than with an axe.

[@ruleroftheundersky570]

3V is not worth the asking price by some knife makers; sadly hype sales and they get away with it. I'm not saying 3V is bad steel, but it does need a good heat treat to perform very well - i.e. the Delta 3V Heat Treat used by Nathan Carothers which is his own. He's got 3V dialed in.

[@ravin747]

Very cool, great equipment

[@Squibknocket]

My stranded woodsman in 3V rolls an edge during simple carving tasks regardless of wood species. I think the 12.5* angle on the edge might be a little too thin.

[@bobhabsolute4995]

I do you like the Stranded Woodsman? I always been interested by it, but Great Northern knives never seem to have any.

[@wcknives]

@@bobhabsolute4995 there is a waiting list that you have to contact them to get on. I can not build enough to keep up with demand so you have to place an order and wait. Usually takes 5 months or so.

[@wcknives]

Shouldn’t happen with any knife even with a 12.5 degree edge. I have many in 3v and other steels and they go through lots of testing. There are dozens of videos on my channel showing the R&D on steels with a 12.5 degree edge. Sometimes during the final polish the very edge gets a little hot without me knowing so to reach the proper hardness you have to sharpen, with aggressive grit a few times to get back to the proper RC. I explain this in a video on my FAQ playlist. After you sharpen the edge a few times and the issue still persist then contact me through my website for warranty.

[@bobhabsolute4995]

@@wcknives Five months is not bad at all, I’ve been waiting for close to two years for two knives from another knife maker. I am not too worry since they are not paid, but it’s frustrating because I have to pass on other knives. Anyway, I will check if I can stretch my wallet for it or if I have to wait before jumping on the wagon. Thanks for the tip and for being a straight shooter.

[@Squibknocket]

​@@bobhabsolute4995 I got mine directly from William. It is the one from his video "The Updated WC Knives Stranded Woodsman" Nov.15, 2020. You may have to preorder through Great Northern. Now to answer your question: It's not perfect, but I love it. The combination of 5/32" stock, balance and handle contour are amazing. For a large knife, it is very light & nimble in hand. The scandi portion is a little short; fine for making simple notches on smaller sticks, but I found it difficult to make a square notch on a 2.25" stick. Not impossible, just took a little more time. And not a deal breaker either, I'm not trying to carve wood every time I go out into the woods. The long sweeping saber portion is great for slicing. The contour of the spine is great for rounding sticks or you can choke up on the knife and use it almost as an ulu. The spine is sharp enough to throw sparks and make shavings but not so much that grabbing the knife by the spine would cause discomfort. I do not baton knives so I can't speak to how it would hold up. I have used the Stranded Woodsman for everything; wood carving, game processing, food prep & fire prep. I even use the Nessmuk Hump portion as a spoon. I did find that the 3v edge would roll from time to time, but I'm not an expert and it could be my technique. A few passes with an old schrade hone realigned everything. I've since turned the saber to a convex edge and have not had an issue. I'm a knife nerd, with a small collection. But I have not purchased another knife, because I've not fallen out of love with this one. Hope you enjoyed the novel.

[@MADHIKER777]

Like all knife steels, desirable factors depend on the purpose. A steel for a lightweight pocket knife isn't best for a chopper.

[@wcknives]

Appreciate the comment and view. Do you have a steel in mind for comparison? What steel is preferred for lightweight pocket but not a good chopper?

[@kevinAuman1]

There is a reason for Catra testing lol because human error also it is very easy to manipulate these results by how much pressure is applied and how many actual back and forth sawing motion cuts were made...

[@wcknives]

I would agree. Did you see any biased or manipulation on my part? If it was it was certainly unintentional. As I said in the video, I make the same money no matter which steel I sell. Personally I can use any steel I want but I choose my heat treated AEB-L because I have found nothing that is noticeably better in day to day use. And yes I have used other manufacturers premium CPM steels as a comparison, there is a testing playlist on this channel if your really interested.

[@vaughnwesterby5162]

That was a great comparison William, most videos I’ve seen on 3v the Rockwell was 62-63 everybody has their process. The AEBL was impressive. A question on the touch up sharpening, how much pressure do you use in your strokes on the stone? Thanks

[@wcknives]

Thanks, that’s pretty high for 3v. Recommended is 58 so I stay 58-60. I don’t use much pressure. Let the stone do the work.

[@jusme8060]

Just get some carpet or carpet pad. No matter what steel you use it will dull It in 2 minutes tops. This is what broke the super steel spell for me. I can strop my simple steels but my k390 will take some work. I have noticed many makers seem to have a problem heat treating aebl and often have too much retained austenite. Boker in particular really has this issue. No matter what you do you just won't get it sharp because of poor heat treat. I do love me some 3v but honestly for general use any modern steel will do just fine. I made two identical knives, one in m390 and one in aebl and I had one heck of a time noticing any discernable differences between the two except m390 still had some bite after about two hours of moderate use and aebl could No longer cut rope while m390 had no issue. With any other material I wouldn't have noticed any difference. Both could cut wood fine, cardboard, paper, just didn't have that bite to get through the rope. A quick strop or hit on a stone quickly remedied this. Is it really that much of a benefit with some of these "super steels?" I don't think so personally and bet most people couldn't tell any difference if they won a reward. Also, most people aren't getting the full benefits anyways with these Chinese made knives. My kizer in cpm10v is worse than my esee in 1095 as far as edge retention goes. Production companies aren't going to give you a quality heat treat unless they are using simple steels or charging hundreds of dollars. There's no getting around it. Heat treating super steels right costs money and a 60 dollar knife ain't gonna give it to you.

[@wcknives]

Thanks for sharing your experience.

[@nevillesavage2012]

Ever tried out Roselli Knives Wootz steel? I know what true Wootz steel is and know that it is extremely difficult to replicate. Roselli's wootz steel has impressed me. I do alot of Hardwood carving and no steel I have used can compare to how long the edge lasts. Now that I think about it I dont think I have done anything other then minor stropping to the blade since I purchased it 2 years ago :) with A LOT of carving done

[@stuartdavenport2952]

Also, AEBL is about 10 ft/lbs tougher than 3V at 61HRC.

[@wcknives]

Thanks! I do prefer AEB-L to 3v.

[@hiramhaji7813]

Afternoon sir

[@stuartdavenport2952]

In actual CATRA cutting tests, at 61HRC, CPM 3V will make about 470 cuts into the silica medium while 61HRC AEBL will only do about 350. And this stands to reason, 3V has vanadium carbides, which are MUCH harder than the K2 chromium carbide. AEBL only has 6% chromium carbide, whereas 3V has 5% vanadium carbide, again which are much much harder than the chromium carbide. Looking at the composition, and in CATRA testing, 3V outperforms AEBL significantly in the wear resistance tests. As a maker myself, I would never even run AEBL or 3V at that low of a hardness for fine cutting knives, 63HRC on both steels gives much better results, but still with that said, the difference between the two is fairly linear on a graph hardness vs number of CATRA cuts. AEBL really does start to shine once it gets above 62HRC. But there is something to be said for ease of sharpening, and in that category, AEBL wins hands down. And also it's ability to get screaming sharp with using your more basic stones like India or Arkansas. Plus it is stainless, whereas 3V is not. Oh, by the way, there is no "molecular structure" in steel. It is a crystal structure, atoms arranged in a particular manner. There are no molecules in steel.

[@wcknives]

Thanks for sharing, I can only speak from experience as of each video and try to learn more every day. I do find with my limited test edge profile, angle hardness, and edge type (course or polished) dictate my cut test results so I can only go by my experience and results.

[@ravin747]

I’d say AEBL would be the best bang for your buck, but I guess there’s other factors to keep in mind.🔪🔪

[@JPHomeland]

Nice👍. Which steel ist tougher? AEB-L or 3V? What do you think?

[@wcknives]

Stated in the video several times lab test say 3V but is it shown in real world use? Depends on the user and what he is doing with it.

[@JPHomeland]

@@wcknives Thanks for your thoughts

[@MarkNewton-gk8ww]

I’d rather have 01 steel any day of the week

[@wcknives]

This playlist should change your mind. My AEB-L test for batter than O1. Can’t speak for other brands. kzbin.info/aero/PLlbS3ilO_URqQJVVdF0r8nXuMq7KO31X-&si=YiQUu8nBq9oScB4W