We Chose The Wrong GOAT

[@GOATiology]

Download the Gametime app ( gametime.co/ ) and redeem code GOAT for $20 off your first purchase (terms apply).

[@Atomic_465]

1 second ago is crazy

[@HoopHighlights313]

Amazing video keep killing it

[@MushMunkey]

This better be worth it GOAT. I literally never use ads, but last year, seeing Wemby vs Steph for my first NBA game, I'm hooked. I hope I can find some good deals near me!

[@majmunOR]

It's impossible to pick just 1 GOAT. By we can agree on many.

[@sentokigames151]

LeBron never caved...? He's using PED's...

[@mr.t-rex3113]

The real goat is the friends we made along the way

[@omlggno8966]

Power of Friendship ahh GOAT

[@joegreen4501]

Great u win 2 participation trophy

[@tRodHC]

I thought you were the GOAT.

[@BobbyJackson-wi7kc]

🤯🤯🤯🤯

[@ThunderSlams]

Only the GOAT can recognize Greatness lol

[@MORONIC_official]

Genius comment

[@WickedlyChill]

No it’s me

[@Yungdarius]

He just humble

[@wakkawakkagaming3710]

I think we instinctually start thinking "GOAT" when a player feels unprecedented: only one Bron, one MJ, one Wilt, one Bill, one Curry, one KD, one Shaq, one Wemby. When we think "this guy might be the best ever" we're partly thinking "no one will ever do this again, no one else could ever or has ever been this."

[@onomatopoeia300]

Where did Wemby come from? 😂😂

[@Terror832]

True. A GOAT has to be unique.

[@headforcosby]

@@onomatopoeia300 Name a 7'5 center with dribble skills of a guard, great shooting, and defending, wemby wont ever be seen again in the nba fs

[@wakkawakkagaming3710]

@@onomatopoeia300 the end of the video? 😂

[@nwbutter]

lol, maybe go by what G.O.A.T. actually means and not this modern era zoomer bullshit where you start creating some other meaning to it. GREATEST OF ALL TIME can only be one

[@Wund3rKiin]

The thing about deciding who the goat is, is that the conversation is far more interesting than the answer. If you believe otherwise youve missed the point entirely. Its about disscussing what you value and why.

[@jamesloftin4078]

LBJ goat for me cause the video is missing a stat. The stat of how useful you are to your team : when MJ left, his team still was top1 of the conference. When LBJ left, cavs went from champions to last of their conf. LBJ goat that's it.

[@Phantazmay]

Very well said. I value longevity a lot, so it's hard not to pick LeBron, but I also grew up MJ was a God. Quite the dilemma.

[@ExiledGenes]

@@jamesloftin4078theres a big difference from best in your conference to best in the NBA without a question, which is what MJ made the bulls

[@ConnectFork]

@@jamesloftin4078 when you gut your team and leave via free agency, thats what makes you a narcissist. Kobe never left. Steph never left. Magic never left. Bird never left. TD never left. Before Bron started all this bs we never had ring chasing divas.

[@ConnectFork]

@@Phantazmay Brons only shining attribute is because he has abuse PEDs makes him the goat to you? Interesting lol

[@jjb33083]

"Stop it. Get some help."

[@SandSeven]

The goat's got quotes fo shizzle my dizzle.

[@joegreen4501]

Nailed it

[@geekgrem]

yea... put the Kol-Aid down it will be ok

[@9mezzo]

posing that ending question asking "or is he already here?" with wemby is so tuff.

[@thisdamnguyagain4450]

I grew up watching Jordan play and I love everything about how he played the game he is def the goat but I won’t hate keep the title. Le bum is a great player and a generational talent but goat he is not. I would love nothing better than to see wemby dethrone Jordan as the legit goat not some media narrative that would be awesome to see two great players acend in one lifetime

[@PabloAsu-MboroValencia]

@@thisdamnguyagain4450 Why you have to bash Lebron to give your opinion? 😂😂😂

[@step-p4j]

Man as a Spurs fan I subscribe just because of all the Wemby coverage he did this early in the season even tho we were losing. Then he expanded to the entire NBA

[@strang7739]

@@PabloAsu-MboroValenciacause he feels like lebron threatens jordan lol

[@LegendGamer-dj8om]

Why do people think wemby is gonna last more than 10 years in the league lmao

[@BrandonWhatTheF]

Everyone knows the real GOAT is the Career asterisk. Ain't no NBA player is good enough to stop that guy.

[@futurefox635]

He got stopped over and over and over again by the real Goat.

[@darnellmensah8340]

Goat comment really

[@Crimson-ev4vl]

​@@futurefox635the asterisk? Did it get stopped by the exclamation point or the at symbol?

[@lasttrackzz1331]

my goat isnt here so im out😅😅

[@ExiledGenes]

@@futurefox635then that means your real goat isnt jordan or lebron

[@korhashamo]

I’m 44 now and watching NBA since I can remember. What makes Michael the GOAT for almost our entire generation was his superhuman aura that came from being head and shoulders above all. He won 3 titles, retired, came back a year and a half later, and lost to Orlando. That really hurt his legacy and I remember sports debaters arguing over whether he ruined his legacy by coming back. Jordan’s response to that single failure? 72 wins, utter domination, and eventually 3 straight rings again before calling it quits again. The theater of it all, no doubt enhanced by being a kid, was incredible. It sets what now seems like an impossible standard to reach GOAT status: only 1 half-season blemish over a 10 year period and the response to that blemish was to morph into perhaps the greatest team of all time and absolutely shred the league and win 3 straight. How the eff is anybody gonna touch that ???

[@hichrisperry]

Nearly impossible to find anyone our age that thinks otherwise, tbh. And we've been watching Bron since before some of these Bronsexuals were even born.

[@Miles_305]

Agreed 👍🏾

[@beastyboy101bo]

Jordan played against a league where only 40% at best knew how to shoot if titles is the only argument then it’s laughable also the rules were different for Jordan because he couldn’t be double teamed like in todays NBA

[@Tode99]

@@beastyboy101bo lebron played against those guys too wtf are u talking about. Curry made guys shoot better, befoe curry 3 pointers were basically the same as Jordan era, did Bron dominate like Jordan in any of these 2 eras? i don't think so. Don't bring rules in this convo, cuz every set of rules has positives and negatives, imagine how many more fouls would jordan get in this era lol especially knowing that NBA really likes superstars like lebron and jordan

[@user-oy3ok5vr4q]

@@Tode99 arguably he did, Jordan never managed to take a team of bums to the finals

[@AChildOfGod2071]

Sun tzu said: “greatness isnt overcoming difficulties but having no difficulties to overcome” im paraphrasing but yeah

[@bnsz8704]

MJ and Bron are incomparable. They played 20 years apart. They played different styles. They didn’t even play the same position. Both are one of one and should just be appreciated for all they have done. Same with every other player. Cause they won’t be here for all too much longer. Could be any day that a career or even life altering injury rids us of one of the greats. But the sport is in good hands. Very very freakishly large French hands

[@KOHUNIT]

what if wemby doesnt win?

[@bnsz8704]

@@KOHUNIT you could say that about anyone.

[@ConnectFork]

They're not comparable because Bron is a glorified Karl Malone.

[@chadcas]

Perfectly stated.

[@TheDiesel408]

@@ConnectForkyour not wrong. Similar playstyles

[@ZER0713]

ESPN could never do content this good

[@style2930]

mentioning everyone but Duncan the whole video is criminal

[@JonezeeTG]

Is it though? I swear I never heard anyone actually adding Duncan in the GOAT conversation. Not hating, just I actually never heard that.

[@narrow3601]

​@@JonezeeTGnah you right, my man here just wants people to give Duncan some flowers.

[@pedrodutra4088]

Mentioning Messi instead of Pelé, by his own standards, is the real crime here.

[@JonezeeTG]

@@pedrodutra4088 do you actually watch football / soccer or have you just heard stuff? Because Messi by all means can be considered the real goat as he has not only crazy records, but has literally completed football / soccer. Like he has won everything there was to win at the top level.

[@pedrodutra4088]

@@JonezeeTG By the standars he set on the video there was absolutely no one that could top Pelé. There was absolutely no discussion regard who is the greatest ever. To this DAY Pele is regarded as the GOAT, and look how long his dominance has come to. He is regarded as the most complete player of all time and he too won everything not one but three times. By the standards he set on the video is Pelé and there's no discussion.

[@babysaleem1]

7:31 "...and edges LeBron" 🥵🥵

[@Imaf2020]

Your getting better at this. What a masterfully edited video!

[@illyastheprof]

"When people say that someone is the best in their sport, they say, that person is the Michael Jordan of that sport." - Derek Jeter

[@pedrovilasgomes9144]

That is only true to americans

[@niceboy3000]

@@pedrovilasgomes9144 more like over 40 years old

[@eemfunnyasf]

I prefer Michael Phelps .

[@maboussou21]

Jeter retired when? 🤣

[@mk3tsi]

Derek who ? Some random jorbum fan quote

[@Tetrahedragon2]

I see GOAT I click. I'm a simple man.

[@uncletys]

I see JXMYhighroller & think hmm that’s better.. also v.simple He knows who the real GOAT is, not this chump

[@Tetrahedragon2]

@@uncletys Dunno man this was a pretty good video about the whole idea.

[@janezverbic2093]

Yes you are, stay goated.😁

[@js0uthh]

idc. youre goat is the goat of their respective era/generation is the only way to settle this. too many opinions and factors.

[@milliondollarart]

Yep, Curry is the goat of this generation, as he completely changed the game of basketball and won 4 rings. Anyway GOAT stands for Greatest of all time, which is why your sentence doesnt make sense xd

[@Nateolison]

Then you can't use the word GOAT. It's the greatest of All time, not the greatest of a particular generation.

[@Nateolison]

@@milliondollarart damn, I didn't read your comment. lol you got to it first 🤣

[@deeshotcha2250]

Mj more individuals achievement then any nba player EVER 💯🗣️

[@samuelsamano3777]

“Goat of a generation” is coping hard. We all know who the goat is. A two way player who was the best perimeter defender for 10 years straight while being the greatest offensive force ever seen. That 6-0 Is loud and clear

[@hungo7720]

Personally, MJ is unmatched and mesmerizing. Longevity and consistency might not dictate who is greater in terms of legacy and personality. What actually does is his performances in most decisive moments and championships.

[@Ytomany]

The thing about Mj is the guy had no concern fro longevity at all the dude played every game like it was his last his feet bled he had injuries he played through, I could never see Lebron doing that ever and it’s not a mark of disrespect he wouldn’t that’s a ridiculous notion. The one thing I put Mj above Lebron is consistently you really could always count on that dude to go out there and dominate and it was so bad teams just had to beat the hell out of him or focus him so hard to shut him down, like one constant thing I always say about Lebron his entire career is he has his moments where he plays at like peak levels and then randomly just stops like how he did in the Olympics the last 2 games and they had to have curry carry them, like Lebron has been doing this his entire career it’s why he doesn’t have more wins. Cause if Lebron stayed top level he probably could dominate the nba better than any player ever but he just doesn’t do that it’s why people call the dude lechoak I mean it didn’t come from the sky, it does undermine him a bit for all he has done but I think it is a big thing to acknowledge.

[@maboussou21]

@@Ytomanyso playing injured makes you the GOAT? 🤣

[@maboussou21]

@@Ytomanywhat if you prepare the right way EVERY SEASON from 17 to 39, and still be the best physically on the floor? No baseball, no poker, only love of basketball.

[@maddie690ify]

​@@maboussou21No, but it makes you a real man! I go to work hurt all the time while LeBron makes millions to sit on the bench because he has a head ache. I don't respect people like that. He will never be my Goat!

[@hido...]

Lebron is the GOAT in basketball. Jordan is the GOAT in winning basketball.

[@maximilianomarigo6726]

I come from soccer... I am an 28 old italian. Before following the nba, i have never Heard of the goat de ate and I was happier. I think it is nearly impossibile to state "who is the goat" due to lack of statistic' data and different eras Just appreciate each player individually

[@NuryPPanaligan]

Definitely. It's like comparing Maradona, Pele, Yashin, Messi, etc.

[@yfndayday470]

No, it's more than the title. It's a reflection of the game. Personally I believe Wilt is the goat but because of his respect for the game. MJ carried the same respect, however LeBron left his team plays half way and tries to be a manager/player and form his own teams. Yes his physicals and talent is undeniable but to be called the greatest basketball player of all time is a no for me. He may be the better athlete than the two but when it comes to our game he can't be called the goat 🐐

[@MORONIC_official]

16:08 LeBron is better at everything combined that any other player didn't have. LeBron James is the most complete basketball player of all time.

[@Vivaildi]

😂

[@raidiscool9144]

@@Vivaildi ​ @UnhandsomeJack mentality and competitiveness are bs. You can easily make the case for bron. being a better scorer. Jordans dopy season was with inflated statistics meanwhile LeBron was robbed of one and a unanimous map in the same season. LeBron is WAYYYYY More efficient than Jordan. in 2007 and 2018, LeBron had ZERO and I mean ZERO help against DYNASTIC teams. during his prime. When did the showtime Lakers peak? During Jordans young seasons. Not his prime. When did Jordan start winning chips? when the legendary teams of the 80s started to decline. When scottie pippin saved him from the hellhole of a situation he was in, that he couldn't escape because he was such a pathetic loser and couldn't weld his team to the finals like LeBron did in 07 or 18. In 2015, his (LeBrons) two best teammates got injured, while going up against a dynastic warriors team. (And they still took it to 6). In 2017, he faced a team you can EASILY, and I mean EASILY make the case for greatest team oat. Meanwhile, Jordans bulls are being compared to teams like LeBrons heat, whereas 90% of the people ive seen have always mentioned those warriors teams as having the undisputed best roster ever. (outside of olympics). As the video says, MANY, MANY MVP players played during LeBron's prime. There's Kawhi, who stopped Steph curry and KD from threepeating. There's Giannis, who had one of the greatest playoff runs in nba history. There's Jokic, who won 3 mvps and a championship, and is considered the next "Mr. Triple Double." Speaking of that, Russel Westbrook just so happened to have a top 10-5 MVP season ever, averaging a literal TRIPLE DOUBLE, in once again, the toughest era ever. There's James Harden, who had a t3-2 (maybe even 1) scoring peak ever, and who took the greatest team in nba history to 7 games, with less than half as much help. That's how good he was. There's Kevin Durant, who is EASILY a T3 scorer oat. There's Tim Duncan, who was a beast defender and literally has a winning record against every nba team (Only player to lead their team to that astonishing feat). There's Chris Paul, who is arguably a t3 if not t5 pg ever. There was Kobe Bryant, who was being compared to MJ during his prime. (This was before his passing too, so you can't say It was bias or anything). There's Steph Curry, who is by FAR the greatest shooter oat, insanely clutch, widely considered the GOAT pg by the general bball community, especially after the 2024 olympics. There's genuinely so much more I could say, but for now just take this and move on. If I wanted to, I could write another essay on while Jordans era was TRASH.

[@Vivaildi]

@@raidiscool9144 bro you really got on your nerves 😂 You gorgot that Lebron also added flopping to his bag, don't underrate him please.

[@korhashamo]

I think if people started saying GOML instead of GOAT, it’d make more sense and be more accurate. Greatest Of My Lifetime.

[@gregggames]

Some call it a cop out but to me, they both are GOATed at different things. I have a big appreciation of them both. Jordan and Bron both bonkers. I just wish people would stop trying to tear one down to build up the other.

[@iGucik]

My problem with the longevity claim is that kareem played until 42. And held the point scored rexord while having 4 years in colledge basketball. Undefeated but by 1 game. And 10 years with NO 3 POINT LINE AND NO DUNKING. take away lebrons dunks and 3 pters and its not even close. So his longevity claim falls flat on its back.

[@johnathanstanalonis8843]

@@iGucik your point might genuinely be the most unintelligent thing i have ever had the misfortune of reading. you do understand that you can't simply "take away' lebron's dunks and 3 pointers, right? that would be making the assumption that he simply WOULD NOT SHOOT. if lebron was in a league with no 3 point line and no dunking he would score in other ways, as would literally anyone.

[@Herosennin]

@@iGucikAlso, Kareem before Lebron was the player with 6 MVP's 6 titles and the all time scoring record and the greatest longevity. However when MJ came, MJ was regarded as the GOAT who only played 14 seasons and because of that doesnt come close to the scoring record even though he had a comparable pace to Wilt Chamberlain. Longevity is praiseworthy, but it doesnt make you the GOAT. Especially when players today take off time simply to rest when players used to play through injuries even vs the last seed in the league if they were capable. Like how does nobody even notice that KD, Curry, PG are also 36+ and performing greatly but also a Horford who might not be a star but is still a pivotal highly skilled two way player that can even guard the best guards quite well on the perimiter and he's 39. Seems to me, this longevity thing, is not just Lebron but others as well and nobody is making claims that 'Curry is better than Magic, bc longevity' or KD is better than Kobe, bc longevity' because it's just not a real argument for being greater. I mean Lebron has more total rebounds than Rodman. Does this mean he's a better rebounder than the best pound for pound rebounder of all time. It surely says something, but far and I mean far from what people make it out to be. That's why they never mention Lebron leads in turnovers and missed shots in the playoffs and will lead the NBA in missed shots when he's done. And clearly, this doesnt say anything about Lebron being a bad player when you look at context, just like him having more points than others, does not make him the greatest scorer let alone the greatest playerz

[@Nateolison]

@@Herosennin Of all the guys you named in regards to longevity, they're all still younger and they've all missed a ton of games compared to LBJ. That man's basically been available for 20 years straight. He is iron man fr and was putting NBA miles on his body as a teenager. He got it.

[@mortystraphouse5077]

nobody tears down MJ 😅

[@katanaXgaara1]

It took lebron 16 seasons to score what Jordan scored in 15 seasons. This video is not mentioning that fact. Jordan played 15 seasons. Lebron has played 21 going on his 22nd. Take his stats just up to 15 seasons and make a video about that

[@punyemas9783]

Then you'd also have to mention the 2 seasons where MJ only played 18 and 17 games. MJ's insane

[@marquanmr]

Mention it took 1,000 less shots

[@jamesescondo708]

Mention the amount of assists and rebounds in 15 seasons too. Not just the total score in 15 seasons lol

[@WookieChewie13]

@@marquanmrexactly! 1200 less shot attempts and way more assist!!!

[@scottb3034]

@@WookieChewie13 Irrelevant since Jordan played in the framework of the triangle offense after his 6th season. That means his opportunities for assists were neutered. We saw what he was capable of with full seasons as the main ballhandler (averaging 8 apg over a season) and in stretches as PG (a triple double in like 11 of 12 games). Basically that means if he wanted to play Bron Ball to get his stats he could have but he played a team offense and that's why he won and didn't need to cycle through 50 coaches and teammates. But if we are going to go that route, they should also mention the steals and blocks and maybe the free throw percentage and turnovers. I wonder who that favors....

[@enjoyedjourneys8363]

Great video reflected by great comments. Different ERAs, different GOATs, we will never know for sure. Watching both MJ and Lebron throughout their careers, there are a few certainties: by the time Lebron is done, he will definitely finish with the most prolific career in NBA history, undisputed. The numbers and testimony also portray what the players say: nobody was more dominant than MJ. How dominant? ‘91-98 MJ/Bulls: Never lost 3 in a row; 25-1 in playoffs(series), w only 2 gm7s (2-0); Record when up by 10 in 4q: reg season: 210-5; in playoffs(games): 42-0; Only guy ever to win Scoring title, All-D 1st team, MVP, and Finals MVP in same year - Jordan... and he did it 4 times. And while the (bad boys)Pistons get props, nobody talks about the 80s Celtics, 84 Olympics, or MJs stint in ‘89 playing PG(averaging a triple double); In 1984, before winning Olympic gold, Jordan led a bunch of fellow college players to an 8-0 series sweep against an NBA all star team that included 7 HoFs; Then, when Jordan set the alltime playoff scoring record (63pts) against the Celtics in 86 at 23yrs old, in the Garden, against the NBAs best D that year... the Celtics swept the Bulls, won the title with one of the best teams ever, led by Bird, who'd just won his 2nd str8 MVP and was the NBAs undisputed best player (and trash talker)... And what did Bird have to say about Jordan after the game?!? (on national television!): "I didn't think anyone was capable of doing what Michael has done to us," Larry Bird marveled. "He is the most exciting, awesome player in the game today. I think it's just God disguised as Michael Jordan." Listen to the guys who played and coached in each era, enjoy the banter, and appreciate this gift we’ve received…

[@drewlavay]

Kawhi is the difference between MJ & Bron when it comes to the TOTALS, in favor of Bron. KD is the difference in total ACCOMPLISHMENTS, in favor of MJ. In 500 less games. It blows my mind that this is even debatable. LeBron has the longevity. MJ has quite literally, everything else.

[@GreenTaurosGuy]

MJ is the greatest of all time Lebron is the best of all time

[@skrujani1665]

1:15 yeah LeBron is my GOAT 🐐

[@conduitofthegospeldarrellb9154]

THE TOP 30 ALL TIME: 1. Michael Jordan - the greatest player and the greatest career in NBA history. Most dominant offensive force and one of the games best defenders. 6x Champ 6x FMVP 5x MVP 2. Bill Russell - the greatest winner and greatest defensive force in NBA and sports history. A legend on/off court. The key to NBA first dynasty. 11x Champ 5x FMVP 5x MVP 3. Magic Johnson - the great PG ever (so far…). REVOLUTIONIZED his position and saved the NBA. 5x Champ 3x FMVP 3xMVP 4. LeBron James - the greatest longevity in sports history. One of the most dominant forces ever and top5 all round player. Still.. counting. 4x Champ 4x FMVP 4x MVP 5. Tim Duncan - best PF ever. One of the most fundamentally sound players ever. Played both ends at the highest level for 15 seasons. 5x Champ 3x FMVP 2x MVP 6. Kareem Abdul Jabar - owner of the most dominant go-to move on offense. The HOOK. The previous scoring leader and lead all points for 4 decades. The greatest BASKETBALL career ever. Prep to Pro. 6x Champ 2x FMVP 6x MVP 7. Kobe Bryant - see number 1 and dilute the athleticism and physical intangibles and that’s what you got. Arguably the greatest warrior in NBA history. 5x Champ 2x FMVP 1x MVP 8. Shaquille O’Neal - the most dominant ever. The immovable object/unstoppable force. Shaq was the definition of dominance. 4x Champ 3x FMVP 1x MVP 9. Larry Bird - maybe the most legendary on the list. Precursor to Jokic but better. One of the most skilled & clutch players ever. In any sport. 3x Champ 2x FMVP 3x MVP 10. Hakeem Olajuwon - back to back. The best of the mid90’s and second best player in the era. Hakeem is like Russell but with AllNBA offensive ability. 2x Champ 2x FMVP 1x MVP 11. Wilt Chamberlain - the games most prolific scorers. Arguably it’s greatest defender as well. The man could do it all. Even lead the league in assist at 7”2. Wilt IS unparalleled. GOAT athlete. 2x Champ 2x FMVP 3x MVP 12. Steph Curry - the games most prolific shooter and one of its greatest scorers. REVOLUTIONIZED the game forever. STILL GOING. 4x Champ 1x FMVP 2x MVP 13. Isaiah Thomas - ZEKE. CP3 before CP3 but nastier and meaner. A warrior and one of the games greatest strategist and generals. Quietly a top5 passer. 2x Champ 2x FMVP 14. Oscar Robertson - the greatest all around basketball player ever. Could do everything at a AllNBA level. Changed the way players were interpreted and influenced generations. 1x Champ 2x MVP 15. Kevin Durant - the Slim Reaper is likely the most ideal offensive weapon ever. Can hit from anywhere, anytime over anyone. Hard to beat and impossible to match that level of offensive dominance. 2x Champ 2x FMVP 1x MVP 16. Julius Erving - The good Dr., the FIRST MJ (before Magic & Jordan), The icon and face of BOTH leagues that saved the game in the 70’s. Kareem was the best but Doc was a close 2nd. Underrated statistical brilliance. Was like a 6’7-6’8 Giannis but with a better jump shot. 3x Champ (1 NBA) 2x FMVP 4x MVP (1 NBA) 17.. Moses Malone - CHAIRMAN OF DA BOARDS. Arguably the best board getter… ever. Only Wilt, Russell, Rodman and Thurmond belong in the same discussion. Moses lead his people to the promise land more than once but was able to claim immortality in the early 80’s. His team lead by the dynamic duo of he and Doc dominated the league. Before Lakers v. Celtics it was 76ers v. Celtics-Lakers. 1x Champ 1x FMVP 3xMVP 17. John Havlicek - the GREAT one. MJ is 6-0. Ole Johnny is 8-0. The offensive force off the bench or starting that lead the dynastic Celtics to all 8. Early in his career he was akin to Jordan Poole role on Warriors 22’ team but better at everything but the 3 ball. Then in the late 60’s-70’s he sat in captains seat. His career is a unique mix. Played like Pippen with elite perimeter shooting/scoring, early career was early Kobe-esque, late career MJ/Kobe-esque. John’s game rose in the playoffs. 8x Champ 1x FMVP (likely 4x) 18. Giannis Antetokounmpo - it’s getting freaky… GreekMan is literally on the ride to potentially threatening Tim’s best PF title. If he can add a couple more rings to his already HOF profile he will likely be the new PF or TOP 5 player. Yea. THAT GOOD. 1x Champ 1x FMVP 2x MVP 1x DPOY 19. Jerry West - The LOGO. Steph Curry before Steph. The man that built the LA franchise along Baylor post Mikan era. Jerry West was the blueprint skill base for players like Kobe, MJ, TMac, etc At 6’2-6’3 he torched his opponents his entire career and dropped plenty of dimes. The ORIGINAL combo guard. So damn great he LOST and still won FMVP… case closed. 1x Champ 1x FMVP 20. Nikola Jokic - the Joker is no damn joke. Genuinely a candidate for potential GOAT if his career pans out in the extreme positive like that of the top 10. Jokic is in a unique place being the greatest passing big statically NBA history (excluding Magic). If Jokic finds a way to fit more jewelry in his fingers, we might have to have a real discussion about that greatest Center of all time discussion. Yes. Potentially a top 5 player alert. 1x MVP 1x FMVP 3x MVP (should’ve been 3 consecutive but you know 21. Rick Barry - The ACTUAL “White Mamba”. Just predated the black one… Barry was the answer up until 85’ when you asked who the best SF ever. His game was similar to West but 6’7 and a better FT%. Controversial, cerebral and iconic. Had so much game he had to share what was left with his sons… 1x Champ 1x FMVP 22. Kevin Garnett - The Big Ticket. The 00’ Giannis. In every way but he had a better jumper midrange and beyond. KG was a monstrosity on OFF/DEF in his prime much like his modern comparison. Led the TWolves to relevance and led the 08’ Celtics to a chip. Truly the BIG TICKET. 1x Champ 1x FMVP 1x MVP 23. Dirk Nowitzki - DIGGLER. The one and only. The German Bird. THE Maverick. Dirk is one of the most beloved, iconic and acclaimed players ever. The 00’s stretch big supreme. Dirk was able to take the Mavs to immortality over 11’ Heat in arguably the most surprising run ever. Only Dirk. Forever the DIGGLER. Arguably, the GOAT Euro player. 1x Champ 1x FMVP 1x MVP 24. Bob Pettit - Big Blue was the first stretch 4 in the games history. That’s for starters. Pettit was a tenacious rebounder and highly skilled scorer. He was much akin to K. Love of his era but in better shape and played defense. Think a smaller Dirk who grabbed boards like Love but in the 50’s-60’s era. Not only that, much like Dirk, Pettit lead a historic upset over Russell’s Celtics. A true champ. 1x Champ 1x FMVP 2x MVP 25. Dwayne Wade - The Flash. Wade County. The greatest Heat in NBA history. Wade is arguably the best defensive player at his position and easily too3 (MJ, Kobe). Led the Heat to a title in 06’ in historic fashion against Dirks Mavs. Then winning a couple more as LBJ’s Pippen. His career was like Kobe’s… in reverse. Wade’s early injuries reduced his maximum career output but yet here he is… says a ton. 3x Champ 1x FMVP 26. Elgin Baylor - The PROTOTYPE. Before West, Julius, Thompson, Wilkins, MJ, Hardaway, Kobe, Carter, TMac, Wade, Ant etc There was Elgin Baylor. The first Air, the first Mamba, the first Half Man/Amazing, Flash etc Baylor spearheaded an era that hardly wanted his talents there but had no other choice but to be in awe of it. Think Harden, in shape but not as good of a playmaker, twice the rebounder and a better defender. That’s Elgin. *left a season before historic LAL title win 27. David Robinson - The Admiral. The USA’s biggest weapon in the 90’s was also one of the greatest ever. Made the spurs relevant pre-Duncan and post. Has some of the greatest seasons statistically. Think Giannis but 7’2 with a lefty and 15 footer plus an even better defender. 2x Champ 1x MVP 28. Karl Malone - the Mailman was LBJ minus the handles and vision. King of the pick n roll. 1x MVP 29. Charles Barkley - The Round Mound of Rebound was the Tasmanian devil in a basketball jersey. Prime 25 5 13 guy. Impact everywhere he went. OG DREAMTEAM member by the way… 1x MVP 30. Clyde Drexler - The Glide. One of the most useful all around talents in nba history. One of the greatest two way players ever. Helped every squad he went to become a contender. 1x Champ * HONORABLE MENTION: McHale, Nash, Malone, Harden, Parker, CP3, Stockton, Walton, Payton, Westbrook, ^GIVE HONEST FEEDBACK CRITIQUE ATTEMPTING A PERFECT TOP30 list

[@mattiemarx8344]

Retarded top 10 😂

[@Sasha-mdib]

You know your stuff sir, kudos.

[@mattiemarx8344]

@@Sasha-mdib no

[@ConnectFork]

your biggest compliment to Bron is his longevity which is from obvious PED abuse. Take that away, and the fact that he stack the deck on every team he's ever been on and what does he have?

[@conduitofthegospeldarrellb9154]

@@ConnectFork IF those rumors end up bearing truth then idk where you put him because it’ll depend on WHEN he started “doping”. If not he’s the greatest SF so far so he has to be Top5 minimum.

[@uchiha_gakami999]

As a new basketball fan this really opened my eyes towards the old ,current and future players on what standards they should be held to at when talking about the “GOAT” or “Greats of the game”. Loved the videos story building and visuals. Keep it up man. Could you do many next a video related to the uprise of Luka or the mavericks next? 😀

[@ODrane]

"Greatness is a deviation from average" is one of the more profound things I've heard in my life. Thanks for that gift brother!

[@ikea1890]

a GOAT video about the GOAT

[@RAW_Reality]

Goatception? 🤔😅

[@olihb9594]

18 minutes and 0 new information... these videos are getting good

[@PhenomRom]

I liked it lol id watch another 18 minutes

[@vqrp661]

it was all bs and trying to keep up Mj''s greatness, didnt change the fact that an nba journalist caught jordan being a fraud in dpoy 😭😭😭😭

[@TheMikero]

@@vqrp661 Jonny Arnett YT channel has a good video analyzing the actual footage of the six games that Tom Haberstroh (the journalist/analyst) referenced from Jordan's 1988 DPOY season to write that article since Haberstroh didn't provide any footage himself. He also has a follow up video analyzing every 80's DPOY race.

[@inefekt]

@@vqrp661 pro tip: try and _not_ show the world how stupid you are....

[@christianrodriguez9663]

I like how the only argument against Jordan is hypothetical things 😭😭😭

[@RafaelR1]

After all, my GOAT doesn't change shit. What I value the most may not be what you value the most. If I could change careers with whoever I wanted, I would change with my GOAT. He is really 1/1. And right now, I don't know if it even exists a debate that could change my mind.

[@AcencialAMV]

I love this video, I am even more confused on what I think about the GOAT debate after it. Good vid.

[@mydogsnameislucy768]

Most of us picked the right one unless you’re round my age (29) or younger then you might be wrong and go with Lebron. It’s MJ easily.

[@vqrp661]

you guys picked an favorite, not the Goat because the amount of times lebron has been unlucky and the fact that jordan's dpoy was an fraud makes it wonder that lebron has been chasing a ghost 🤔🤔

[@mydogsnameislucy768]

@@vqrp661 it was not a fraud. That’s a false narrative put out by a clutch employee. lol that’s also FAR from the only thing separating MJ from Bron. You’re also wrong in calling him my “favorite” he’s not. My favorite players are Hakeem and Kobe. MJ is just objectively the goat. Sorry.

[@scottb3034]

@@vqrp661 they picked the handful of most egregious games and most times steals were credited to him instead of blocks. So maybe he doesn't get 3.2 blocks per game he instead averages over 2 blocks to go with his 2 steals....as a 6'6 shooting guard. BTW everyone gets stat pad help for home games even the likes of Lebron. Ben Wallace for instance got some of the most help on his DPOY campaigns. You look like a clown.

[@kawaranai9743]

​@@mydogsnameislucy768and can you give me an objective measurement that gives Jordan the edge over Bron? Can you defend it against everyone who challenges that measuring scale? Ridiculous claim

[@mydogsnameislucy768]

@@kawaranai9743 yeah I can but after dozens and probably even hundreds of times it gets tiring especially if you’re talking to a brick wall that has an excuse for every fact . The information is right there. MJ wins pretty easily.

[@evilkep7390]

There's only guy who has his number retired by every team and 11 rings, 12-1 finals.

[@scottb3034]

And who also played with 8 other HOF on his team at the same time at one point.

[@RafaelUnplugged]

9:44 this is the argument no one wants to acknowledge. Talent in this generation is insane

[@ryckless1]

Is it? Or is it more a lot less defense being played now.

[@raidiscool9144]

@@ryckless1 kawhi

[@theconservativechristian]

Did you watch until the end 😂

[@theconservativechristian]

Guessing you posted this before watching till the end 😂 the talent in the 90s was insanely good you had multiple players averaging almost 30 a game but Jordan was averaging well over 30 for his career in the Bulls he averaged 32 6 and 6 played 2 seasons on the wizards after not playing professionally for 3 years and still came back and averaged 23 anyway LeBron fans will jump on anything because they need everything anyway the video ends with Jordan is the goat 🐐

[@neezduts_]

Literally everyone says this bruh

[@lewlootpack4459]

After arguing w/my son the last 3 yrs, I came up w/the best term for this: the GOHT. Pronounced the same, but the change is Greatest of His Time. Not gonna keep going back n forth w/ a teenager who hasn't watched more than 5 yrs of NBA.

[@whenisdinner2137]

I do agree with the premise of the video that greatness is measured by how much better they were than their peers. Because we cannot control who they play against and it's always the best players in the world in the NBA regardless of era.

[@Ridghost]

For me, in any area of comparison there can be a greatest. A greatest athlete, leader, scientist, artist, musician, employee, model, tyrant, entrepreneur, etc... We are pattern recognition creatures that live in and through competition. To identify the greatest in any competition, you need to establish your own objective criteria. Based on that criteria you should come up with a base line in which the top 1% of the elite 1% fall into. Once you've reduced the sample size down to something workable (say... a top 10) based on your criteria, subjectivity really comes into play. Objectivity is where you can be dispassionate in your assessment, but in fields of extreme competition and a massive sample size, when reduced to say... 10 samples, your own emotions ultimately decide it for you. Whose style do you prefer to watch? Who had the greater impact on your view of the field? When you say 'greatest'... whose face appears in your mind? This is how I figure out who the greatest is for me. Base on all that, I don't put down 'the greatest of all time' for players I've not witnessed play myself. I don't pretend to know they are the greatest just because I heard it from second hand sources. Examples of the greatest for me vs. who might be the greatest for others would be: Messi for me, Pele might be the greatest but I never watched his games. Ferderer for me, Serena Williams might be the greatest, but I barely watched her games. Hamilton for me, Senna might be the greatest but I never watched his races. Tyson for me, Ali might be the greatest but I never watched his fights. It's fun hearing others talk about their GOATS because you can kind of appreciate what they love about the game based on who they pick, as well as the era they watched. The only time the picks become uninteresting is when someone tries to argue a GOAT conversation for a player / team they never watched themselves. Stats start the conversation, they should never finish them. Without witnessing the games themselves, the context for those stats goes out the window. If you don't watch the games, you can't tell what those stats really refer to. Did they players look sick or at the top of their game? Was there controversy surrounding the game at the time? Was a player obviously limping? etc... There's so much stats can't tell you, which is why it's frustrating to see people say 'Well Lebron has more points' or 'MJ has more championships' and end the conversation there. How were those points scored? Was it dominant or just a symptom of playing for ages? How were those championships won? Were they dominant shutouts by 1 player, or was he tapping them in whilst others did all the work for him? You can't answer these questions without watching your so-called GOAT. TL;DR If you're going to argue for GOAT in any field, actually watch the players you're defending, and if you're going to argue against someone else's pick of GOAT rather than just respecting a difference of opinion... then actually watch their pick play as well.

[@Quince477]

Great comment. I also wished that ppl stopped bashing one player to prop up another. It's just ignorant. I personally have LeBron as my GOAT mainly bc I just never seen Jordan play. Now ofc I've watched a ton of highlights of him and his game is absolutely beautiful to watch, but my main criteria is longevity and consistency. I did not watch Kareem, but if someone says that's their GOAT then I respect that. If someone says Jordan is their GOAT I respect that. Or Wilt, Kobe, Russell, Shaq... etc... I believe we should change it to GOTE (Greatest of This Era), but that will not draw much attention and views as the answers become more clearer.

[@Nateolison]

I like where you're head is at but there's so many competitions we don't have footage of. Like Wilt's 100pt game for instance. They're disqualified?

[@Ridghost]

@@Nateolison Not disqualified, but if you want to add it to your argument you need to watch the 100pt game. Otherwise, it's just a fun fact rather than a solid argument because you wouldn't be able to answer many questions about said game. I don't take the GOAT question that seriously, and I think most people don't either. My comment is more about the pundits, professionals, and fans who do take this subject really seriously. If you want to take it seriously you need to treat it seriously and watch the games which others and yourself use as arguments. In doing so you'll become an expert in your own right I imagine with the amount of footage you'd need to watch to have the most solid argument.

[@AllStarKydd]

@@Quince477so from what you’ve stated here, would it be correct for me to infer that you’re GOAT would change if another player, played for as long and as consistent as Bron has?

[@Quince477]

@@AllStarKydd longevity and consistency are my main criteria, but championships, stats, MVPs, etc. also play a role. You can be consistent, but not be one of the go to players on the team

[@Assen87]

I have several goats . They give the best milk.

[@defenestration5955]

Havent watched the video but this commemt section will be a warzone

[@MadChickenz42]

Nope, we can all agree that GOAT is the GOAT.

[@thengyang5537]

Lebron has all the stats records because he's been in the league 21 plus years...Mike only played 15 seasons..Doesn't matter who Lebron played..He had a super team every year..He only won 4 out of 10..Give mike prime wade..Irving..davis..bosh.. Mike will win more than 6 rings...I don't care who's the opponents.

[@smprr888]

the goat is the friends we made along the way

[@thatsbawal]

The only question is if only LeBron played before MJ, will there be a question?

[@linusnanor1531]

Right???

[@Tode99]

that's a no for sure, noone would even consider lebron, like noone considered anyone before jordan when jordan was in his last years

[@thatsbawal]

@@Tode99 you mean they considered MJ as the goat when he’s playing for the wizards?? Or you mean people appreciate someone when their playing days are over?

[@broderickbrownbrown4082]

It will still be the same if Jordan played today he will be the greatest that everyone ever seen LeBron will be the same no game no bag just overhyped

[@stevanchez1122]

LeBron has NOTHING "over Jordan" that Kareem didn't have "over Jordan" when Jordan "past him" in the GOAT debate....So, yeah, Jordan would still be the GOAT if LeBron's career was first.

[@cashbyrd781]

One stay you didn't mention is LeBron played for 50 more years than Jordan 😂

[@JesusRodriguez-56]

Exactly and accomplished less

[@70bugs]

@@JesusRodriguez-56 He made it to 10 finals when mj made it to only 6. Sure, mj dominated in the finals, but thats only when he MADE the finals.

[@scottb3034]

@@70bugs jordan could have made the finals all those years if his competition was the Al Horford Hawks, Derozan Raptors and Paul George Pacers.

[@70bugs]

@@scottb3034 And mj wouldnt have won in the finals if he was facing the dynasty warriors. Point is, lebron faced the good teams in the finals, while mj faced the good teams in the conference finals, which makes mj's finals record a lot better.

[@scottb3034]

@@70bugs that's a mighty big presumption of fact. Defense > Offense any day. Size > lack of size any day. Taking it to the basket and putting the other team in foul trouble > Jump shooters any day (just ask the 2016 Warriors about jump shooting). And the Bulls have more top 75 players on their 2nd threepeat than the warriors did on a team that went 3 of 5 in the Finals. The Bulls won 69 games in a season that had dennis rodman miss 25 games, toni kukoc miss 25, luc longley miss 20 games, robert parish play 43 games at 43 years old and Brian Williams didn't join the team until the last 9 games of the season.. That's a team if healthy that wins 76 games in a season AND goes on to win the title unlike the 2016 warriors. Oh and the 96 sonics and 97 jazz are two of the top 9 teams in nba history to not win the title. In fact I believe by record they are still top 20 teams in history. Before you ask, Lebron has beaten ONE team better than them by record the others lost earlier in the playoffs or before he played. So it wasn't just conference finals that were tough opponents, it was the finals. In fact Jordan never played a team under 57 wins in the finals, Lebron did it 2 times to put that in the picture. Heck not a single finals opponent whether Finals or Conference was below 50 wins. But sure it was easier in the finals for jordan. LOL

[@therealhim808]

You'd have to be born at least before 1980 to have truly experienced Jordan's career and its nuances. It wasn't perfect. Yes, he's 6-0 in the Finals, but he only got there six times in a 14-year career. Isiah Thomas and the Pistons, Penny and Shaq, and a few other teams beat Jordan quite well in the playoffs. His playoff struggles are rarely discussed, likely because it would change the narrative. Meanwhile, every play LeBron makes is scrutinized. Jordan didn't have to deal with the constant, daily scrutiny that LeBron does. The modern media landscape puts players like LeBron under a microscope in ways that Jordan never experienced. Social media, 24/7 sports coverage, and constant analysis have created an environment where every misstep is amplified. Back then, people simply watched commercials, movies, and read magazines where Jordan was constantly promoted. Anyone who thought differently was never heard because there were no platforms for it-just corporate machines like the NBA, Hanes, McDonald's, Wheaties, Nike, and Sports Illustrated, all of which sponsored Jordan. So, who do you think would look amazing when there's no space for honest discussion? Dražen Petrović used to give Jordan real problems, but he tragically died in a car accident before entering his prime. Also, if we consider the Warriors and Heat teams with three Hall of Famers as super teams, why aren't we discussing how Jordan had five Hall of Fame teammates during his run? LeBron has faced significant injuries to key teammates during crucial playoff runs-like Kevin Love and Kyrie Irving in 2015 and Anthony Davis in 2021-which impacted his chances for more titles. I'm not here to preach LeBron; I'm here to ask why we can never discuss Jordan's shortcomings, but we always have to examine the shortcomings of LeBron, KD, and any other great player. Jordan was an incredible scorer and defender, but LeBron’s all-around game-his ability to score, rebound, facilitate, and defend multiple positions-is arguably more comprehensive. LeBron’s adaptability across different teams and coaches, and his ability to maintain a high level of performance over a longer period, are often underappreciated. Finally, we can’t overlook LeBron’s off-court contributions. His activism and community work have set a new standard for what it means to be a global sports icon. Jordan's impact off the court was substantial, but it was more commercially driven and less focused on social issues. So, why are we not allowed to discuss these aspects openly?

[@jimadams8795]

Feel like u just discussed the hell out of it 😂 ik this: MJ wouldn't have given two s*it's what the Internet had to say about him

[@jasonvargas4798]

What does activism have to fo with basketball? It's not who you like it's who is the best player. And everyone discusses Jordan's shortcomings. But if we cop out bron for not having help everytime he loses then there is no argument against Jordan's early years since he was putting up great numbers

[@aubro4514]

@@jimadams8795yeah but Nike and all his sponsors would

[@jimadams8795]

@@aubro4514 and Jordan made Nike so kinda doubt it. imo anyway

[@SonnyDlicious]

What a great documentary. One of the best I've seen on KZbin 👍🏻

[@OctaneStreet]

As soon as you started making the outro statement I was just WAITING for the highlight of Wemby haha, was not disappointed!

[@ishhodcollins5220]

Btw We don’t emphasize enough that Jordan’s and Pippen’s Bulls won SIX rings not in 10 years…..they did that in EIGHT years! please recognize that specific arithmetic.

[@DKtrek21]

It's actually 9. You shouldn't count out when Orlando Shaq eliminated MJ and the Bulls. Still impressive. 66.6% is nothing short of amazing

[@thetruthinwonderland]

@@DKtrek21no, that came during the two year intermission between three-peats.

[@Fabulos1]

ppl forget that they stayed on top, they also say jordan didn't play anyone completely disrespecting ewing, GP, malone, barkley, they were the team to beat, also they gloss over all the damn hall of famers lebum has played with.

[@Flyhr]

@@thetruthinwonderland Jordan still came back and played that 1995 playoff series vs the Magic and lost to Shaq. He was there. Also lets not say Jordan wasn't 100% coming back, he literally averaged 31pts-6reb-4ast-2blks-2stls per game that series.

[@jonthomson9262]

Actually Jordan lead the bulls to 6 rings in a span of 7 seasons in which jordan actually played.

[@HayabusaRyu]

My GOAT is Steph Curry. As a Warrior fan growing up, watching 20 win seasons; Steph elevated the Warriors to one of the best franchises in history and he became one of the greatest players of all time. When I was a teenager; I never thought a player like that would've ever played for my favorite team.

[@landonsillyman3996]

I concur with this

[@ConnectFork]

MJ will never be topped imo. But Steph is definitely top 3 now.

[@inefekt]

there is no such thing as _my_ GOAT or _your_ GOAT there is only _the_ GOAT. And that, my friend, is absolutely and positively _not_ Stephen Curry. Sorry...

[@landonsillyman3996]

@@inefekt it’s subjective my friend lol and there is definitely an argument to be made

[@inefekt]

@@landonsillyman3996 For Steph? Only if you have absolutely no idea about basketball history. He is borderline top ten, that's about as highly as anyone could realistically talk about him. Putting him in the GOAT conversation is just complete and utter delusion....and probably a sign that you are a Warriors fan 😆

[@RafaelR1]

Great video, but LeBron is still my GOAT. I won't argue bc it doesn't matter.

[@PhenomRom]

Scottie pippen is the true goat of the 90s bulls.

[@whenisdinner2137]

It is laughably easy to make a debate for Michael Jordan without talking about rings at all. It is impossible to talk about lebron's case without gassing the fuck out of longevity 😂😂😂 Jordan is better at literally everything other than assists. Relative to his position per game which is actually an apple to apple's comparison. He has the most accolades of any player ever and by far the best physical measurables for his position the league has ever seen. I could argue jordan is the best simply based on mentality if I wanted to. Just off the fact that he got better when he was mad when literally everyone else gets worse and players were terrified to do anything that could make him mad.

[@mynameis......23]

15:52

[@jamiebelle9609]

“Jordan wouldn’t have gone down 3-1” acting like he mover lost a playoff series. Man’s didn’t only play in the nba 6 seasons

[@richh4230]

I'll leave this here: Michael Jordan was swept in a playoff series early in his career. The Chicago Bulls, led by Jordan, were swept twice in the first round of the NBA playoffs: 1. 1986: The Bulls were swept by the Boston Celtics (3-0) in the first round. This series is particularly famous for Jordan's 63-point game in Game 2, even though the Bulls lost that game. 2. 1987: The Bulls were swept again by the Boston Celtics (3-0) in the first round. LeBron James has been swept in the playoffs twice during his career: 1. 2007 NBA Finals: The Cleveland Cavaliers, led by LeBron James, were swept by the San Antonio Spurs (4-0). This was LeBron's first appearance in the NBA Finals. 2. 2018 NBA Finals: The Cleveland Cavaliers were swept by the Golden State Warriors (4-0). This was LeBron's last Finals appearance with the Cavaliers before moving to the Los Angeles Lakers.

[@universe-ie2mk]

Lebron got swept in the confrence finals to denver​@@richh4230

[@montalirecords]

@@richh4230 Don't forget in 2023 swept by Denver

[@cocouncil777]

Jordan got swept by Boston Celtics 2yrs straight.... He 0-8 against Larry Bird all time in the playoffs

[@realjordantrs]

@@richh4230notice that Lebron was swept in the Finals, something that never happened to MJ

[@dwindows1976]

Jordan will forever be my 🐐 👑 if Bron played in MJ’s era his body wouldn’t allow him to be playing as many seasons as he has done.

[@gold6813]

🧢 the league were lucky that LeBron , Wilt and Shaq were nice guys. If they wanted to do damage. Not many all time could stop them. LeBron is basically a guard version of Karl Malone. Imagine if LeBron grabbed Clyde Drexler out of the air and slammed him into the ground instead of Jordan. Clyde would be out of the game injured.

[@ZubairKhan-ls8du]

Wrong

[@schmidtytime]

So why haven’t we seen other players before Bron after MJ play like this in their 20th season? Such a stupid argument.

[@iGucik]

My problem with the longevity claim is that kareem played until 42. And held the point scored rexord while having 4 years in colledge basketball. Undefeated but by 1 game. And 10 years with NO 3 POINT LINE AND NO DUNKING. take away lebrons dunks and 3 pters and its not even close. So his longevity claim falls flat on its back.

[@samuelsmith5064]

Lmfao your crazy bro lebron is literally know for being an Ironman😭😭that’s a terrible argument

[@gradog2095]

I don't know how you could bring up points like "would Jordan do as well today with a faster, bigger, and more athletic league?" And "Lebron wasn't able to play at a time that best fit his play style" and then go "it doesn't matter" at the end of the video. Because it all boils down to that, every 2 or 3 decades the players get exponentially better, the game evolves, and that's the biggest factor here. The players today are better, have more skillful moves, brand new moves in general, the coaching dynamics & strategies have gotten better. They're better at shooting, they're more athletic, they have better training, they have better nutrition and medical treatments bettering and prolonging their game. The simple truth is this, the game and players have evolved too much to call Jordan the goat if he were playing in this time he would be top 15 sure but no he would not be no 6-0 in the finals. The goat is Lebron there is no logical way you could argue against that by what I just said, it doesn't make sense. Theres a goat for every generation and that is the best basketball player to ever walk the earth at the time, the best of the newest generation will always be better than who came before by the nature of the ever evolving human race and advancement in making us bigger, faster, stronger, smarter. Currently that's Lebron James.

[@A4bcreative]

I love/ agree with your explanation.

[@gradog2095]

@@A4bcreative thank you bro

[@Bedrews]

100% you hit it

[@paratame105]

I would even extend your point and say: If you argue against this, the only other alternative to pick as your goat is Wilt.

[@al-garo-gm4zs]

You are totally wrong in everything you say! What evolves are the rules, not the players! There are still skilled people and slow people today! Who is the best player today? JOKER! Is he athletic? can he jump? can he run? And what about LUKA, can he run? can he jump? NO, don't talk to me about evolution, it's nonsense! Here the issue is how you play the game, what is the mentality to appreciate winning instead of looking good. All this syndrome that affects the league today is seen in the all-star game, there is nothing more horrible than watching a damn all-star game from now. Before we played to compete and be the best, today to show off and appear on TIK-TOK or Instagram and the best also want to play on the same team, it's pathetic bro!

[@olololo4807]

wemby clips just make me crack up. how he just lays it in gently at the end. this is so insane.

[@webstergadison4995]

That block was nothing but desire and effort

[@rollandcurtisfromVermont]

We can finally move on to the future GOAT Debates of: Michael Jordan vs Victor Wembanyama, Michael Jordan vs Anthony Edwards, Michael Jordan vs Luka Doncic, Michael Jordan vs Nikola Jokic, Michael Jordan vs Jalen Brunson, Michael Jordan vs Shai Gilgeous-Alexander, Michael Jordan vs Ja Morant, Michael Jordan vs Donovan Mitchell, Michael Jordan vs Jason Tatum, Michael Jordan vs Jaylen Brown, et cetera, et cetera. Desperate 40-YEAR-OLD senior citizen-LeBron James is REFUSING TO RETIRE BECAUSE, after 21 years, an ancient 40-YEAR-OLD LeBron James is still pathetically chasing the “ghost in Chicago” aka The GOAT - Michael Jordan. 🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥

[@LessSaltyPeanuts]

Men See Goat, Men Happy

[@Lmwst]

MJ never encountered The Juggernaut because he’s the JUGGERNAUT!

[@smoovejl]

Against plumbers and janitors. He wouldn’t be who he is in this era.

[@larrysark733]

Based on your logic wilt is definitely the goat .. nobody stood above his competition more then he did.. "Jordan wouldn't allow himself to go 3-1 down" I'm sorry but did he only play 6 years in the league? .. drexler was part of his biggest competition ffs, Drexler is not even touching Paul George

[@adamullmann626]

Drexler was a much better player and a better leader than Paul George. you can't even compare them...

[@averageYTviewer]

I grew up watching LeBron, so he is my GOAT. It doesn't matter what MJ or anyone else did, but I respect their game. I wasn't alive when MJ was dominating the game for me to say that he is the GOAT. If you old folks think that MJ is the GOAT, then so be it. I respect it. He is your GOAT, but not mine.

[@montyforbes]

according to this video (excluding the ending) the goat list would be 1. wilt chamberlain 2. kareem abdul jabbar 3. michael jordan 4. bill russell 5. larry bird 6. lebron james 7. kobe bryant 8. george mikan 9. james harden 10. shaq

[@chillalex7]

I expected this to be a video about the greatest of all time, not the greatest compared to the competition of the ’80s and ’90s.

[@chillalex7]

Regardless good video

[@Midnight.Scythe]

4:24 iconic clip

[@mytruthismoreuseful]

This honestly may be the best goat debate video I’ve seen & that’s what it always comes down to

[@Alex_Faux]

Bro really said "if you take away 3 of Bron's championships he would only have 1." People like to point at MJ's 6-0 record, but he lost plenty in the playoffs. Including 3 first round flameouts when he was an absolute ballhog on the Bulls in his early years. I've watched them both play. Lebron has everything in his favor except 2 rings. And rings are ultimately meaningless, otherwise Bill Russell and the other Celtics players from that time with a million rings would be in the conversation instead of just being a footnote. Championships are a team accolade. Lebron has been an MVP level player for 20 seasons. That's a GOAT.

[@aaronkirkland5211]

Well said brotha!

[@TheDragontiger123]

he ran into some of the best nba teams ever while his teammates were dog water. Lebron had multiple playoff series where he actually sucked

[@dominick8011]

Bill Russell played when there were 9 teams in the NBA! 😂

[@AbdulDean448]

Lebron choked to Jason Terry 😂

[@joshhurst7648]

Yeah the losing finals aspect is overblown. Making it to the finals 10 times? MJ could never.

[@leonhardable]

idk, if you really define greatness as standing out from the average, then wilt becomes the GOAT with jordan and bron not even being close. but interesting take.

[@zzthedon4k]

the man won a single ring in 13 years against a guy who stole ALL of them and continually spearheaded his team to victory. I'm guessing you meant Bill? Either way, both of these GOATs get slept on due to their era and without our bias, both should easily be top 5. The problem is one ate from the other; Bill with winning, and Wilt with literally unprecedented freakiness (to this day he's the greatest straight NBA athlete without a doubt). Same with Magic and Bird and Lebron and Kobe/Steph. Jordan had nobody next to him, or even close to him.

[@LegendGamer-dj8om]

not trye

[@deeshotcha2250]

Mj got the most achievements as a player

[@BeerAndJointsAllDay]

@@deeshotcha2250 is he beating Wilt 1v1?

[@BeerAndJointsAllDay]

@@zzthedon4k do you have any idea how many hall of famers played on those Celtics? Literally the Greatest dynasty not in the NBA, but in sports history in general

[@Shaggy_Steve]

MJ made basketball what it is today Stats aside Drama aside Competition aside He was the GOAT then and will forever be the GOAT An absolute maniac that expected nothing but perfection from his team mates and never let anyone stand above him We will NEVER see another player like it, the closest was Kobe and he was still 10-20 levels below MJ

[@logansigmund101]

But would MJ have had a league to play in if it weren’t for bird and magic and bill russel and wilt and how different is the game if we never have a steph curry you’re talking about impact not greatness

[@alexrojas3749]

That trash ass league he played in😂, we will never see another lebron we’ve seen another Jordan

[@yaraflor4457]

Who is it? ​@@alexrojas3749

[@Ijustwantedafrosti]

My guy , your narration is on point 🔥 keep it up

[@JGallis]

Jordan for the win🙌

[@ayosgsauce]

Or is he already here? 17:18 . YES HE IS. That would've been a good time to play the commentary clip when Wemby faced the Warriors in the pre-season "Is he just toying with them?"

[@LikeWhyTF]

There is no GOAT just a bunch of GOGs Greatest of Generation

[@KOHUNIT]

Steph Curry

[@underdoggy101]

​@@KOHUNITLebron James

[@LikeWhyTF]

@@underdoggy101 imagine Steph curry’s skill set with lebrons build sheeesh

[@LikeWhyTF]

@@underdoggy101 LeSteroid

[@puiafanai3471]

Numbers favors LBJ only because he played alot of games compared to MJ...that why he have more points, rebounds and assists, so, we can't use longevity to define a goat

[@Shhhhhh12345]

he averaged 3 less points on far less shot attempts and ft averages while averaging far more rebounds and assists. If we’re looking at averages, LeBron is just a more efficient MJ mixed with pippen and magic johnson. It’s not just longevity, it’s versatility, its effectiveness

[@hoodhokage707]

Basically reached 95% of Jordan’s accolades on LESS games and LESS shots but go off lol

[@drin1218]

But kobe also played 20 years and has less assist mvps rebounds points and only 1 more championship then lebron

[@Gotti24]

i think this is the best video comparation( dont know if i wrote corectly) ever !!! no other man or person has ever compared this 2 goats like this.. no bro, YOU are the goat in my eyes with this video.

[@frogeggsyeah5138]

My boy finally getting those sponsors! Gratz!

[@paolodumpit921]

This goat debate ended when Jason Terry outplayed LBJ in the finals. MJ would never.

[@vqrp661]

mj got swept back to back on the first round, while lebron was carrying a team to the finals with an 19-63 team 🤦‍♂

[@rta23cerberus]

Lmfao 6-0 clown

[@gengen4082]

Playing basketball against LeBrons isn't as terrifying as playing basketball against MJ. That's why MJ is the GOAT. LeBron is the next MJ, but still not MJ.

[@michaelmcphee2006]

Contrary to what the majority of the old-heads will say, players in the league today are much, much better than they were in the 90s, so Lebron definitely faced better competition. But Jordan won 3 in a row, retired, came back and won another 3 in a row. That kind of dominance, in an era where the league had come into its own (those 6 so much more than Russel's 11), is unfathomable. Lebron may actually be a better basketball player, but MJ is the greatest ever.

[@zzthedon4k]

there's been plenty of essay type videos on this topic. The undeniable truth; superstar power has NOT fluctuated much across every era, but the standard for an NBA has ballooned in talent since the 90s. A.K.A; Any legend would dominate in any era, but the average NBA player would obliterate an average NBA player from 20-30 years back. That goes for LBJ too, his opponents' ALONGSIDE his own teammates were better. What matters most then is superstar talent SPECIFICALLY, not general talent and that's ultimately defined by who wins.

[@michaelmcphee2006]

I don't buy the 'past superstars are just as good' theorem. The highlight stuff MJ did that set him apart has become pedestrian today. These kids grow up working with the best trainers, and go to elite schools where they can focus exclusively on basketball. Plus were drawing from a pool a 7 billion instead maybe 1 billion. If the old stars got to grow up in the current system, I'm sure they could be competitive, but stars are much, much better now. Jordan may have been the one exception, given that he was so much better than everyone else.

[@raidiscool9144]

respectable. Pretty much saying their equals but bron has a slight edge is fair asf

[@jrbudoybudoy]

@@michaelmcphee2006 that is why we compare them to their peers, rather than compare it directly. You are as good as the people you compete with, people say.

[@Damackism]

The proof thaf old NBA super stars of the 80's and 90's could hang and beat modern players was in this olympics. Players from the 80 and 90's were stronger. And played physical defense night in night out. Team USA almost lost to South Sudan a team of nobodies pretty much. Serbia and France. 92 Dream Team would and cpuld beat 2024 Olympic team. 2024 Team USA only had 3 outstanding players of this era. While 92 Dream Team had like 4 or 5. Only trouble the old 80 and 90's nba players would have is going around double screen offensive sets to get shooters open. Which was not common back in the day. And just how quick the modern players are. As well as how prone they are to chuck 3 point shots and make them. Modern NBA players would have trouble dealing with the old players physicality and strength in the post game. As well as tough on the ball perimenter and interior defense. Not to mention old school players are used to playing in half court set offenses. Because at the end day in NBA its the rules that dictate how the game is played in any era.

[@JohnnyMaiaaa]

best video ever! i’ve been saying the goat discussion is subjective. We have our own way to view things and decide who we think is the best! but at the end of all, we love basketball!! cheers from brasil! 🇧🇷

[@onetootsie5460]

so a player plays 10 games and scores a total of 100 points total and another player only played 5 and only scored 80 so 100 is greater than 80, got it

[@tmcmiz1005]

exactly 😂

[@No-Hassle]

Your ratio is off tho. Player 1: 30pts for 15yrs Player A: 27pts for 27yrs.

[@tmcmiz1005]

@@No-Hassle Yeah and still hasnt won as many championships 😂💀

[@No-Hassle]

@@tmcmiz1005 not the point but obviously true

[@jaybanzia]

The reason Jordan is the GOAT is because Jordan is always the other side of the question.

[@Jeffyeh0711]

So, should Bill Russell be the GOAT? Since the Celtics literally DESTROYED their opponents NBA started awarding FMVP after the 1968-1969 season He’s got 5 MVPs and 11 rings Imagine how many FMVP he could win What? 50s 60s NBA sucks? It’s fine As long as the goat dominates their opponents Cmon what are you talking about? Bad ending.

[@ClaytonLee-j8c]

That's just what I was thinking

[@omlggno8966]

Wilt was literally better than him in that same era. He just didn't win.

[@soccerbeast8271]

Video starts at 2:35

[@JJ23B-vy6ct]

Very nice take. You can also take in how he was received in the 75 greatest players. When he came, all the players themselves knew he was the goat.

[@dbrav727]

2011 finals choke is such a blemish

[@Braydenshelton-m8d]

Jordan didn’t win till he had the second greatest team of all time

[@aries7355]

I hate this debate... There's GOATs at every position. In every sport.

[@paratame105]

@@KiloPage777 kindly explain what tennis, sprint, track, and f1 have to do with OPs comment about positions

[@Andre000Lucas]

​@@KiloPage777 How can you compare Messi to Pelé, LeBron to MJ, theres so many diferent variables for each, i think its unfair to compare players who competed in diferent eras

[@NoGrrlLikeMe]

“We” Didn’t Choose Anything because “You” made the Video.

[@wej4life]

People love to conveniently forget that Jordan's career didnt start in 1991 and end in 1998. Go see what happened to him and his teams outside of those years, who they lost to, who he couldn't elevate, etc... Going by the dumbass criteria in this video, Kareem is 🐐. No one was at his level throughout the majority of two decades. His offense was borderline unstoppable, he led multiple franchises to championships and if defensive stats were recorded as they are now, he likely would be thought of as the best two way player ever.

[@No-Hassle]

100%. I actually thought this vid was going to talk more about Kareem, then it turned bias out of the blue.

[@jasonvargas4798]

Kareem is a good argument but only some people who think they understand the goat argument claim that's what jordan fans say. You can only elevate those who want to be motivated and it was clear in the beginning Jordan wasn't playing with players who wanted to win. They were more interested in partying. But jordan was doing his thing from.tje beginning. Claiming jordan didn't elevate his teammates is a terrible.argument. also Kareem only won 1 with out magic

[@wej4life]

@@jasonvargas4798 yeah I'm not feeding into any of the bs that was in Jordan's self serving tribute of a documentary. Save the narratives for someone else re: unmotivated teammates. He and his Bulls teams didn't get it done against the available competition in the 80s; that's facts and all there is to it. Also saying that Kareem only won 1 without Magic...that's still more than Jordan won without Pippen if that's now where the goalposts are. And yes, I'm definitely counting his Wizards era because he built that team and wanted to show them how to win. Not only could the "goat" not elevate his team as a veteran champion, turns out he's a lousy executive too as none of his Wizards teams even made the playoffs let alone sniffed a championship. I'm only playing by the rules of the video criteria and now also the moving goalposts. If people want to argue that Jordan had the greatest peak, then we can have an honest discussion. But if we're talking about greatest career start to end, then everything has to count. The video penalizes LeBron for his numbers eventually falling during the twilight of his career while in the same breath only wants to count 10 years out of Jordan's run? Nope, doesn't work that way.

[@scottb3034]

Yeah it's his fault that somebody went 9 FOR 27!!!!!! in a playoff game next to his 22 for 41.... And the funny thing is that 33% from the field wasn't the worst shooting performance by a teammate in that game. He also had a guy go 2 for 8.

[@scottb3034]

@@wej4life Actually jordan was doing a pretty good job his first year on the wizards until he got injured and their defensive proficiency tanked and thus their win loss tanked. They were on pace to have the 4th seed, then went 7 and 13 in the games he missed and 3 & 4 in games he was trying to come back while injured. His teammates were absolutely unmotivated by anything but their own addictions...addictions that ended their lives prematurely. Just ask Quintin Dailey and Orlando Woolridge.... oh wait you can't because their lives ended prematurely from side effects of their heavy drug use for which they were suspended for..... also good that you penalize Jordan for losing early in his career when said woolridge shot 9 for 27 in a playoff game the bulls lost by 4. Kareem by the way sat out a game 7 that magic won as a rookie going 42 15 and 7 and winning Finals MVP.... that's why he gets discredited so easily.

[@harvoc94]

Scrabbing 3 Rings to have a argument is wild

[@paratame105]

Loved the video, but honestly, when you started that sentence at the end "If we can agree that greatness is defined as how far above the average you stand, and the greatest player of all time is in fact the player who stood higher above his competition than anyone else, then the answer is simple" I was kinda expecting you to say Wilt ngl

[@idelevitch]

To requote Clarkson: Lebron was spectacular on a number of occasions, Jordan was spectacular every time he stepped on the court.

[@JeramieGutierrez]

as a lebron fan this guy has the most valid argument for MJ that ive ever seen most people are just like "6-0 in the finals"

[@kauffamn1016]

4-6 isn’t goated . Mj looked better , dunked better , shot better , more efficient . More dominant . No debate

[@agumonplayzz2490]

​@@kauffamn1016 Oh then you haven't watched Lebron, go back and watch some tape.

[@BeerAndJointsAllDay]

@@agumonplayzz2490 ahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

[@bgdgdgdf4488]

​​@@kauffamn1016 different league, different competition. If you think jordan would go 6-0 today, you're actually insane

[@Alalpog]

@@agumonplayzz2490 I have watched Bron, Wade looked good there in miami. Kyrie looked good there in cleaveland. AD looked good there in LA, Steph looked good there in Team USA.

[@mortystraphouse5077]

lebron lost to dirk on a super team in the nba finals and played like tatum

[@prince-bm4xt]

Kobe was just coming off a championship and he got swept

[@JustN0tMe]

If that takes Lebron out of the GOAT convo. What did he do to the Warriors make him what? Let me remind you that many superteams had upsets or got swept...but only 1 came back from a 3-1 game

[@mortystraphouse5077]

@@JustN0tMe would MJ ever play like Tatum in the nba finals? hey lebron has #2 on lock and thats a great achievement

[@mortystraphouse5077]

@@JustN0tMe refs and draymond green helped lebron comeback from 3-1 more than anything

[@davis2k1234]

@@JustN0tMe2016 Cavs were a super team and the pre season favorites to win the title he did what was expected of him that season

[@Trevdawg48]

We have to stop saying 6-0. Jordan was 6-9 for chips. How does Lebron not get credit for making it to the Finals TEN times, eight in a row? Jordan was getting swept in the first round without Pippen. Failing to qualify for the Olympics is more impressive than a Silver medal? I don't think so. Winning the Finals is more impressive than losing, no doubt. But there has to be some credit for getting there 4 more times. Lebron's playoff record without Wade, Kyrie, or AD is 54-39 (58%). Jordan's playoff record without Pippen is 1-9 (10%). Pippen's without Jordan is 21-22. When Jordan left the Bulls, they only won 2 fewer games. Pippen led the team in all five statistical categories in the playoffs, and they were one bad ref call from going to the Eastern conference finals. Jordan is nothing without Pippen. He was a ball hog with tremendous defense. Who is an even better scorer with even better defense? And did more with lesser teams than Jordan did? Who only lost multiple times in the finals to the strongest team in history, with a higher percentage of first ballot HoFers than any other team in history? Wilt. Lebron vs. Jordan is close, and Kareem is right there. But there is only one GOAT: Wilton Norman Chamberlain!

[@Trevdawg48]

Also, only two players since 1980 are on the list of highest missed FGs per game: Allen Iverson at #4, and Jordan at #9. The rest of the top 10 is all 60s players. But Wilt isn't in the top 25. Neither is Lebron. Neither is Kareem. Jordan has by far the worst shooting percentage of the GOAT candidates. There are only the four that I mentioned in this comment who are reasonably in the running for that title.

[@mystablak]

​@@Trevdawg48Hate to say it but this 6-9 for chips is the most stupid thing I've seen in the comments. Basically you're saying LeBron is 4-17 for chips.

[@adonismcgregord615]

This video is perfection. Great analysis.