We Give Up! Things are not what they used to be!

[@SuperExige]

I’m over here in the UK, and although I couldn’t use your room engineering services, I took away lots of useful information over the years from your videos. One of the most valuable tips was not to go as big as I could for the screen. My wall can accommodate around a 122” screen with floorstanders either side, at a squeeze, being a bloke you want the biggest right!! After watching your video on screen size and how many ft/lamberts you need for a decent HDR image, not to mention one of the most crucial points you made about being too close to the side walls and having light reflected back on to the screen, I’ve dropped my needs and wants to a 115” screen. I’ve also gone a size smaller for my floorstanders. This makes for an aesthetically pleasing and well balanced front viewing area, now everything looks and sounds in harmony, and everything has room to breathe. I have the Sony VW760es laser projector, and because of the points you raised in the screen size video, I feel that the image output is near perfect without losing all its best attributes had I gone with a larger screen. I’m sat 11.5ft away from my screen, I also personally feel had I gone 120/122” on fast action Michael Bay style scenes and fast panning shots, my eyes couldn’t handle the image, causing fatigue and blurring of the image, for my eyesight. I am using Black Devore all around the screen and approx 4ft into the room on all sides and ceiling, this is a revelation in how much contrast I’ve gained. The rest of the room is painted in a neutral flat matt dark to mid grey. I have a 22ft x 11.5ft lounge, the fixed 16:9 framed screen is at one end of the room and I sit half way in the room away from the screen, utilising a 7.2.4 system. Behind my seating is the front half of the room which is used for general lounging and watching tv, where there is a bay window which is the only ambient light coming into the room. The room is near enough pitch black when curtains are drawn. The only thing I haven’t done is room treatment for acoustics…yet. It just remains to say I have a wife that was made in the Victoria Bitter factory😂. as I’ve not had to compromise anything in the lounge/cinema room. I married a fantastic woman. Regards this video, I hear you, and agree with so much of what you have said and value the honesty and transparency, so many KZbinrs have sold out and it is so apparent to see, they need to give some of us a little credit for having a brain to be able to read or “see” between the lines. Thanks for all your time and effort and wish you continued and greater success in 2024.

[@HomeTheatreEngineering]

Hi. Thanks so much for contributing. Actually unless there is another reason you could/can use our services we provide our services globally and have designed for clients and even built in many overseas countries. Ok on to your comment. Thank you so much for acknowledging that some of our info helped you. Great to hear about your screen. Wise decision, the rest of the room sounds well done too. If you like what that has done for image then wait until you get proper acoustic treatment done. If we can help let us know... We are very grateful for your feedback and wish you all the best too.

[@davidissko9796]

Happy 2024 to you A&A. WOW!!! This topic brings so many thoughts to mind. Potentially quite serious issues could arise because clients may be led to believe the mis and disinformation, rather than your expertise. Sadly, it's happening NOW. A great topic to discuss during our next Patreon meeting, if you're able to organise them for this year. Look forward to catching up when you're ready. Cheers. David Issko.

[@HomeTheatreEngineering]

Hi David, Great to hear from you too. Yes we agree we have seen a number of customers burned over a range of reasons but all stemming back to this kind of issue and it is pretty heartbreaking. Plus if they choose to fix issue it then costs them even more. Everyone is entitled to a profit but not at others expense ! (Hmm I think that's kind of clever...). The thing is be an expert in your field but know what that field is....and don't kid yourself.

[@sillygrandad]

Totally agree with you. I was lucky enough to have relatives who are sound and projection engineers. The thing I really learned from them is to scale the sound to the size of the room, something I wouldn’t have thought of and just gone for “biggest”

[@james_tiberius_kirk73]

Good to see you boys! Happy New Year. Looking good Enzo 😊. My Brother Simon and I have been in the hobby since around 1993. When my Brother sought advice he went straight to HTE. As Andrew knows we (My Brother and I) are not neophytes when it comes to HT. Further, having been in IT for 35 years people would consider me an “expert”, a word I actually detest. At no time in your life should you stop learning and always understand there will ALWAYS be someone more knowledgeable than you. Stay humble and listen is my advice. To that end, Simon and I listened to HTE and frankly, we’re glad we did. Finally, it’s ok to not know something and ask questions. That’s how we grow as people.

[@HomeTheatreEngineering]

Likewise brother in arms :-) Always great to hear from you and your comments are much appreciated. Your feedback is what we really live for to be honest. If our clients aren't happy we know something is wrong and the fact that so many become friends means the world to us.

[@simonbrown8719]

What a great video and hits the nail on the head. It's been a incredible HT journey with it's ups and downs and I too have fallen for the misinformation online and not consulted a professional. I'm so glad I discoverered HTE and have not looked back or regretted my decision and you guys really go that extra mile and have always answered my questions. Who knows what 2024 will bring cough MadVR cough😆. Take it easy guys and I hope 2024 is a great year for you.

[@harbottleaudio]

Certifications, Journalism credentials with ethics code published. These are the mark of a professional, which also opens them up for public criticism and even legal action for the things they say.

[@HomeTheatreEngineering]

We totally agree and while it may not look like it..we agonise over what we say and especially when quoting facts. This is critical to us and if we ever misstep we fully expect to be called out and we would correct ourselves pretty damned quickly!

[@josephcamilleri8944]

the accustic panels you guys sell are on another level

[@bryanp4827]

Not a whinge Andrew, an education...a lot of us with vast experience know, that home theatre is a constant learning curve, and one size DOES NOT fit all...great vid boys!👍👍

[@HomeTheatreEngineering]

Thanks Bryan appreciate the comment. Glad you liked it, we did think a few times before posting it.

[@Darkcorestudio]

First of all have a great 2024 !! Second excellent video and i hope people will open their eyes and see that not everyone is as experienced with actual Home Theater building like you guys and that it pays off to get advice from trained professionals who did the extra mile and keep informed on as many topics they need to to give their customers the best experience possible. See you soon guys 👍

[@HomeTheatreEngineering]

Hey @darkcorestudio Always great to hear from you and as always we appreciate the comment

[@MrAtoulmin]

finally some honest in your face truth. I find it funny how some youtube channels review projectors or TV's but don't calibrate it first. How can you say how good it is if it's not even calibrated! Some youtube channels do calibrate as they should, but others are so misleading.

[@HomeTheatreEngineering]

Totally agree. Baselines are missing and applications are often not considered. "This is an amazing care!" except its a n F1 and you want to go four wheel driving !! As always mate great to get your feedback.

[@chevron916]

Great video. More power to you boys.

[@HomeTheatreEngineering]

Thanks @Chevron916 much appreciated have a great year.

[@dreamav8161]

I don't go to a heart surgeon and tell them what equipment to use or how to do the procedure. I also don't listen to Dr Nick either, or expect to go to him and get the same outcomes as the real pros. Problem is that there are "experts" and brands in our industry (even some that are award winning - its not necessarily what you know, but who or how big your spend is), that are very dubious. Its tough and hard gents, when you spend so much time trying to debunk what clients have been told and I feel for the clients as well. They may not feel the impact until the job is finished and by then, it's too late.

[@HomeTheatreEngineering]

Agreed. The hardest think for us is seeing the look of confusion and uncertainty on a clients face when they think they are getting conflicting advice and have to work out who to trust. I really feel for them. All we can do is stand or our track record and our experience and speak from knowledge. Our industry is definitely not the only one seeing this now...

[@bigjack79]

Im a big fan of erins audio corner. Klippel backed speaker data

[@HomeTheatreEngineering]

Agreed measurements are critical information. Would like to have a Klippel ourselves.

[@asiflatif7767]

guyz we love you and what you do keep on it.

[@HomeTheatreEngineering]

Thanks so much. Really great to have you comment here.

[@TerminatorJuice]

Hey fellas! Personally I'm sick of seeing these HT KZbinrs who started out as a hobby channel, then turn to reviewing a bunch of random A/V products(that were sent to them), just so they can make more content for their channel in order to make money. They don't use any professional equipment and don't have any professional training, so basically they are just giving an uneducated opinion and selling a product to people for money. Also, the other issue I see is that some guys tend to just push the brands of equipment that they personally bought, and talk it up like it's the greatest thing ever, even though they don't have any real experience with other brands and manufacturers... It's just weird to me.

[@HomeTheatreEngineering]

Hey TJ! Thanks for the comment as always. We truly appreciate it. Look we get it, it's fun and then that fun is driven by the sudden attention possibly the revenue , the adoration (?) of fans and being gifted nice toys but when they start saying "this is great, or this is bad" what are the criteria? How was it tested, who is it great for and why.... Often it is also enhanced by not knowing what they dont know!

[@Outback_Truckie]

Have to agree. I don't watch any channel that reviews equipment sent to them as 99% won't be objective. especially when one in particular get's stuff to review off a dealer who is a mate.

[@dreamav8161]

Or products they were given for free or massive discounts...buying the opinion...

[@cwhitchblu]

Maybe a better title for the video would be ‘you will respect my authoritah!’

[@HomeTheatreEngineering]

True :-) but we thought that might be a bit self aggrandising !

[@chebrubin]

Joe Kane from ISF is intended for dim old CRT displays

[@HomeTheatreEngineering]

Ok Joe Kane is not from ISF. Joel Silver is. Second of all CRT displays are calibrated to REC709 which is still the standard today for SD and a standard many if not most studios still use. and is the foundation for calibration you see at most cinemas. Would you care to explain your comment in more detail?

[@chebrubin]

@@HomeTheatreEngineering Um you must have been a kid when Joe Kane produced the first reference disc in the industry A Video Standard followed by the Digital Video Essentials (DVE). The same material you got your gray scale gradients and color bars. He resigned from the Image Science Foundation (ISF) in 1999. For all I know there could have been a dispute between the Joel and Joe. My biggest issue with ISF calibration over the last 2 decades is that the projectors and CRT(s) were just too dim for the reference gray scale "director" intent now called filmmaker mode. I actually think the new Sony 2024 XR 4K NITs Mini LED the ISF dialed back calibration might work for the first time. It just did not look good with the Sony Bravia 4k 900 class from 2016 to 2023. I just think people crave the Samsung pop even if it is the furthest thing from the directors intent and I get that. Sony 4 to 5 K NITs Mini LED could be a game changer and usher back in the ISF calibrator into our living rooms again.

[@HomeTheatreEngineering]

@@chebrubinI am a bit baffled about your comments. So I am 62 and know of Joe Kane very well and have discussed several issues with him over the years and have used his DVE tools a great deal. I have been a full time calibrator for well over 20 years now and have not seen a drop off in work in act the opposite. I am not sure you can say "your main problem with ISF is the low light output of CRT or (older) projectors. That's not exactly their fault and again REC709 which as mentioned is still the foundation today worked perfectly well on these. I also disagree with your comments on TV's and have successfully calibrated multiple modes at varying luminance levels to suit the ambient light for clients. Reference greyscale has not changed, and this is not the nuts and bolts of filmmaker mode (which in SDR recommends a max NIT level of 100 - twice that of a commercial cinema btw) it still uses REC709 for SDR. Filmaker mode is more focussed on frame rate aspect ratio (turning of motion smoothing) but yes is does impact max light output/contrast as well and ideally should be viewed in a dark room. I have successfully calibrated many flat panels at levels less than this to comply with REC709 and would match the light output of a CRT which were capable of 14.7 Ft lamberts plus... In dark room with good content they could look amazing. Maybe I am misunderstanding what you are trying to say but overall, I have found most displays can be calibrated to produced great REC709 images. HDR is a different ballgame, but the high light output capability does not mean that images are always brighter. This was developed to introduce specular highlights and to increase dynamic range, but much content can look "duller: than REC709 but just with more detail due to that dynamic range (game of thrones notorious last episode springs to mind). Anyhow I am not sure this is the best forum for long winded debates, but I am glad that you are commenting, it would be great to meet and chat about this more in detail someday so I can better understand.

[@chebrubin]

@@HomeTheatreEngineering Thank you for sharing with me. I just think in the era of the HDR video game and peoples perceptual and cognitive mindset people want that HDR pop and many times we walk away from a REC709 ISF standard calibration feeling the Sony just does not look as bright or colorful as it did with the out of the box settings. Scary but true I think we are addicted to that HDR pop now.

[@Ian4k4]

I like click bait! A calibrator with training and a good name is worth the expense. My biggest problem was not knowing what good sounds like. (I still don't) Good becomes bad when you hear something better. People are happy when they're getting the best out of what they've got. (or not listening to anything else and not asking for other peoples opinions) Playing around can be fun, but too much, and you find yourself analysing speakers instead of watching a movie. Ceiling surrounds aren't the best? hmm! Maybe I can attach them to pull down retractable cable and lower them when in use.

[@HomeTheatreEngineering]

Wow. Probably one of the best replies we have ever had that also explains my concept of “The Dynamic Range of Human Experience” fantastic comment thanks so much

[@chebrubin]

Free the hostages

[@paulcarroll627]

Doesn’t help when some of these reviewers also make unhelpful comments, I nearly fell off my chair when a certain reviewer stated that just because someone is ISF certified (or PVA) doesn’t make them a good calibrator. Not many of the reviewers come from a technical background and most are just paid shrills. No real qualifications or training. Sadly they get sent calman and calibration equipment for gratis, where as we have to pay a fortune. Cheers

[@HomeTheatreEngineering]

Hi Thanks for your comment. To some degree I would have to say I have seen Calibrators who are certified or done a course that are not very good. As you probably know it takes time practice effort and study to become proficient after the course. But sweeping statements like that are not helpful and these people are going to be better than someone who hasn't done a course. Saying one thing does not make the opposite true! I bought the worlds first commercial license for Calman from the original author Bill Blackwell and yes I have now been paying through the nose for it ever since. And it is still buggy, slow and flawed! (I have now mostly switched to colourspace) It sounds like you are a pro calibrator and if so then we both know how hard you work to stay good and relevant at this. Thanks again.

[@paulcarroll627]

@@HomeTheatreEngineering cheers and I look forward to your future content. Been following your progress from Day 1.

[@HomeTheatreEngineering]

@@paulcarroll627 appreciate that thank you

[@Quetzalcoatl0]

Oh boy. I may sound like a keyboard warrior but man, many of the channels i used to watch, now have 100 000 subs and up. They went pure marketing. With all the knowlage i have gathered in the last 4-5 years, i started asking the important questions or to pinpoint mistakes in the room designs. Everytime i ask a question, or point a mistake, i don't get any answers. I think i might actually be shalow banned on those channels. There are very few channels that actually serve good information. The rest of them are pure marketing or for content only. "Look at this room" -which is rubish. "Look at all this equipment" - but the room is just, and speaker placement is .... "How can a 6 inch coaxcial paper coned driver, produce 117 db/1m with 200 watts ?" i don't remember exactly but It was something ridiculas. I never got an answer. No measurment, no data, nothing, jsut marketing and content to have views.

[@HomeTheatreEngineering]

Yep we feel that. Most of all we feel for the enthusiast starting out who looks to these “big” channels spewing info with no supporting evidence or foundation. Even more of a concern is the growing AI content. There are people teaching people to generate income by creating AI generated content. These videos look so realistic now they are hard to tell apart except for perhaps some vocal give aways. This is bad news and soul-less. They should be tagged with “Warning AI generated content” and all of them so far that I have seen are factually dubious.

[@richmoore-u5c]

Viewers of this video, please listen to this.... No matter where you are in the world, LISTEN to these two guys!!! My collage major was audio engineering, speaker design & physics of hi fidelity sound... I know a lot about this topic! Andrew is the first and ONLY person I have seen on KZbin that I trust! (I also have met him here in the US and I believe in what he preaches) I currently live in the US, but am moving to south east Asia in the next couple of months. I am more than willing to pay for these guys to set up my new system.. you should too! I must assume that all of the miss information I hear here is repeated everywhere! For a few hundred dollars for their consulting fee, you can get an un-biased review of what you need to reach your dreams! I started my search for good video and audio in the late 80"s and have heard more than my fare share of garbage.. Who do you trust? Even if you don't use these guys in the end, at least give them a chance! :)

[@HomeTheatreEngineering]

Wow, ok thank you. A bit overwhelmed by that but I appreciate it. Its nice to know the hard work we have put in has some value.