WE'LL LEAVE IF YOU DON'T DROP THIS RULE! The Story of the Proposed Formula One Breakaway Series

[@basher20]

I think the Ferrari veto was much like the Royal refusal of assent in the UK: They maintain the power only to the extent that they don't use it, but the threat means that they have to be taken seriously during deliberation.

[@MAL9000.]

In an alternate universe the F1 and FOCA split happened in 2010. And the Champcar, Indycar merge in 2008 didn't happen. Imagine at least 2-3 races every weekend from March until November. Circa 80 - 100 races of top level open wheel races per year.

[@tdyerwestfield]

Given the "loyalty payments" Ferrari received post 2009, I'd suggest the supposed breakaway was entirely about money.

[@eternal_trashero]

Ferrari could finish p4 and still have the most prize money.

[@CyanRooper]

Ferrari reportedly spent over $430 million dollars just to finish 2nd in 2019. Mercedes spent over $440 million dollars and they stopped development of their car mid season to focus on the 2020 car.

[@LethalJizzle]

Loyalty Payments is a good oxymoron

[@briankearn6991]

The World Championship was formed so teams could try to beat Ferrari. When they didn’t go to the first race the teams told the organizers to pay Ferrari more. They are the only team to race every season. Half the fans wouldn’t watch if Ferrari didn’t race.

[@Ohtechnik]

Ferrari Ferrari, the reds always bring politics into everything they do.

[@robdavies82]

The interesting thing about Helsinki is that the city council there knew nothing about this plan. The circuit would have needed to be different to the F3000 layout as the final sector was soon built over

[@wabba67]

Indeed. The proposed calendar seemed like pure fantasy, something just cobbled together with the mentality of "let's sort out the actual deals later".

[@eternal_trashero]

I've always felt like the teams have too much power. But I feel like that's slowly reducing as the popularity of f1 increases because of how much how much money the teams would lose and how easily they could be replaced. This makes the FIA a bit trigger happy.

[@bzilla-d4i]

Teams have always had the Power that's what F1 is, innovation, if we wanted to watch the same vehicles on a level playing ground we'd be watching Indy.

[@eternal_trashero]

@@bzilla-d4i You completely missed the point of my comment.

[@bzilla-d4i]

@@eternal_trashero I added a bit of my own emotion in there so I understand where you're coming from. I just expected more. As a Ferrari team in the vein as Sauber used to be that finished 4th I really expected more.. they started off well enough, I don't want to see the grid lose Haas honestly they've given us more feel good moments than Marussia and HTR. But they need to be charismatic. That's what I'm getting at.

[@eternal_trashero]

@@bzilla-d4iYou're making no sense right now.

[@bzilla-d4i]

@@eternal_trashero do you understand the ground works of F1? Innovation, remember the Williams FW14B...it is to this day the most advanced F1 car, F1 like LeMans has never been about the drivers really, you ask a kid who watches F1 now if they know who Fangio even is. This isn't oval track racing, if you want to make an impact you need to be charismatic, like Jordan, like Minardi, like Arrows. Haas doesn't display a single element of these, I hope this clears things up for you. F1 has always been a spectacle, Jordan with their pit girls, he'll Ralph Schumacher even dated the Adult actress called Jordan, who was on all of our wall at the time, Katie Price if you want to know her real name. Maybe it doesn't make sense to you and it sounds like the crazy ramblings of an old man, but yes I am an old man and yes F1 is at risk of becoming Indy. They aren't allowing F1 to be F1. I think I might be following the wrong thread though😂😂😂..so sorry if it might come off as confusing

[@chrisguardiano6143]

As an American in addition to open wheel racing, there has even been a threat of a split in NASCAR not once but twice & both took place in the early years of the series. The first was in 1961 when Bill France Sr banned Curtis Turner & Tim Flock for life for trying to form a union (the Professional Drivers Association or PDA) & recruiting other drivers to join them in the hope that they could form a breakaway series should Bill France not give into their demands for better purses & retirement benefits. Then 8 years later just before the first ever race at Talladega, the majority of the grid who were PDA members including Richard Petty walked out because they felt as though Talladega was too dangerous & because there wasn't a tire suitable for the speeds the cars were doing. The PDA offered to rerun the race at a later date when tires that were more suitable arrived but Bill France rejected that idea & told the drivers to go slower which angered one of them (LeeRoy Yarbrough) so much that he punched Bill France. Essentially the Talladega 500 in 1969 is the NASCAR version of the 2005 US GP & Bill France Sr is to NASCAR what Jean Marie Balestre was to F1 in the 80's in terms of being a jerk.

[@jacekatalakis8316]

And now you got a Split in dirt too with WooO and Kyle Larso's new series that has a charter system, and Brad Sweet jumping ship too. Which is like lewis Hamilton starting a breakaway series for context

[@paulvanderwoude4336]

Mate again another fantastic clip!!!! Very insightful

[@andreass2301]

At this point, I wouldn't blame Andretti for spending their $200million just starting their own racing series

[@AGB_HDV]

Another quality production ❤️🏁💪🏾

[@Ikcatcher]

F1 teams will forever threaten to “leave F1” but they all fully know they won’t because of sponsors

[@ZontarDow]

Except if all the teams did so and managed to get the largest GP's with them would.

[@kicapanmanis1060]

Under the current agreement they're much less likely to because it's very lucrative in the sense that cost is very tightly controlled.

[@stampede122]

‘*The love of* money is the root of all evil’

[@EmoDKTsuchiya]

People misquote this all the time. It makes a big difference

[@flyingphoenix113]

Exactly. Money is just a means of transaction. On a playground, it could be bottle caps or marbles. Greed (the love of money) is the problem here.

[@y_fam_goeglyd]

Having been a fan during the FISA/FOCA war (FISA was _despised_ by the average fan, from the way the stories got out. Had there been a split, the fans would have gone with the teams), as well as the later version, it's struck me that though money is definitely a part of the problem, it's mostly been a power struggle. It can be seen again today with the latest squabbles with the FIA. Each time it's the biggest teams (always including Ferrari of course) which want to throw their weight around the most. I'd _guess_ (because I don't know) that the majority of money that comes into the sport (currently), from the fans and external investors - mostly reacting to the fans - is because of Ferrari, Mercedes and Red Bull. Without them, it's possible F1 could be bankrupted. Sure, the other teams have dedicated fans, but do all 7 together have the financial pulling power of those 3? Possibly those three individually? That suggests to me, along with all of the other things they bicker about, that they use the money argument to give themselves more backroom power. What they'll use that for is for another video 😉

[@Exponaut_R-01]

I'd say that the top three teams definitely have the largest fan base compared to the other teams but by function the rest of the grid has a stronger fan base. Mercedes and Red Bull have had years of Nothing But Winning in the past decade to enjoy, and Ferrari is Ferrari. The rest of the grid's mostly had rare victories waiting for stars to align or, nothing.

[@Bilko367]

F1 cars at Surfers would've been a dream

[@F1wgp7]

I bet Mosely would have felt that dictator comment given who his Dad was.

[@olivialambert4124]

That and Max's love for dressing up as his father's German counterparts.

[@pedrohenriquecarneiro3386]

12:24 Not a bad calendar, I wonder how the cars would be, though.

[@eamonahern7495]

I would have liked all those circuits in the break away series except, perhaps, Yas Marina wouldn't have been missed if it wasn't there. Only one problem though. No Spa Francorchamps and no Suzuka.

[@Skreezilla]

wasn't Lausitz where Alboreto died? that place was pretty cursed i swear. :(

[@ethanstiles948]

I’m desperate for Duke Video to sponsor you. I found them recently as a treasure trove of vintage rally footage. They have a massive collection of FIA season review DVDs that I’ve started collecting because it’s so hard to find old rally footage online. Especially with English commentary

[@Lazbotable]

Surfers Paradise would have been a problem as the original layout is no longer usable, there is a tram line that runs right through the middle of it and this happened around the same time as the breakaway series was being discussed.

[@joeltyler3427]

Yeah, that would been a werid one. Since stage one of the G:link (light rail) would of been in late stages of planning and early build stages..

[@andrewdotmp4]

speaking as someone who's only been watching since 2017 (sorry i'm a poser), it's incredible that nobody seems to talk about this whole incident considering how close it came to actually happening

[@JaxKiBez]

Helsinki Thunder would have been cool to see how would they manage to suit track for F1, i was 1995 and 1996 at Helsinki Thunder watching DTM/ITC, good memories even if i was 6 years old back then.

[@mrkipling2201]

I don't watch modern F1. I haven't watched it properly since the late 1990's. The only reason that I know what's going on is due to this great channel. F1 now is too sterile and wishy-washy in my opinion. The safety car is deployed every 5 minutes for the smallest incident and the rules and regulations are baffling.

[@timdaines3020]

Great research ! Thanks

[@jaywalkking3896]

i was wondering that due to the ferrari movie that just came out could you do a video on that race as they didn't talk about the fact that that was the last one and the conseqences of the accident?

[@jakemoulder6479]

What’s the chances we get a deep dive on the Super GP debacle after A1 GP went under on the Surfers paradise circuit in 2009

[@Lukeywoodsey]

Bernie and Max were so corrupt and held too much power. The Brawn GP documentary does touch on it but the teams should get more of the pie.

[@Ramtamtama]

I'm still wondering which layouts they would've used at Indy and Lausitz

[@Y3ntiLS0uP]

I don't know what layouts would've been used, but I know the standard Indy Oval wouldn't have bee used lmao

[@mlgordita]

14:35 - Lotus photo has a Mouton credit

[@gordonwallin2368]

Cheers from the Pacific West Coast of Canada.

[@minibus9]

awesome video, fascinating moment in F1 history. Definaely agree that F1 needs more teams and fewer races

[@kicapanmanis1060]

20 cars on the grid is more than enough. We need closer competition, not even more backmarkers. And more races.

[@rexthewolf3149]

@@kicapanmanis1060 20 races is enough though I agree with everything else

[@mrkipling2201]

Back to 16 races, less silly rules and regulations, only deploy the safety car when it's actually needed and not for every time a car slightly goes off the track and a more competitive lineup from the top to the bottom of the grid would make F1 a lot better. I would consider watching it again.

[@geniferteal4178]

I didn't know all of this was going on. I just got involved when vettel 1 his first race in the rain. I knew of talks going on and different associations and stuff but I didn't realize it's impact and what was really going on at the time.

[@VonBlade]

15:15 - Like all sports issues this is a problem that can be solved simply. You can't have more races in a season than cars on the grid.

[@rexthewolf3149]

I mean we can infact we already have that.

[@tobihaifisch7558]

7:27 240 million over 3 years equates to 80 million per year, right?! 🤔

[@wswan81]

Wasnt the WorldGP once a thing too?

[@chrisdavidson911]

There've been breakaway threats a few times, this one was nothing new. I, for one, thought the split rules idea would've made it interesting, and not created a "fast cars vs slow cars" two-tier system that everyone assumes. Eventually the expensive teams realise they're wasting their money and change to the low budget regulations. Target lap time is 1 minute 30, if you get caught going faster you lose something,

[@jacekatalakis8316]

MotoGP did that in 09 with the CRT stuf and Honda drove their entire team through a loophole, everyone else was all ...why did you do that, rar rar rarrgh honor and integrity, and then hey we are gonna do this too. CRT and the two tier system saved MotoGP so IMO it could work for four wheels toogobnna

[@Ohtechnik]

If the target lap time is 1:30. What if there was a track where the lap time was like 2:00?

[@fuller9x]

Bernie always knew the best spots to whip Max over.

[@JohnSmithShields]

I see what you did there.

[@conors4430]

The old debate, do you want an actual competition, or do you want a competition between the only people with the money to be able to buy the competition.

[@mukulnag1578]

This was too complicated for me .... A simple man 😊😅😅

[@MARGATEorcMAULER]

You said it correctly right at the start, MONEY

[@GuzziHeroV50]

Ah yes that time when the F1 organisers allowed Ferrari's arrogance to wreck the sport. I already hated Ferrari, but this episode could have grown the sport in a positive way and it failed.

[@Hunter-ww9rd]

I'll be honest. I really wish this split went ahead

[@leonbrooke5587]

given how fickle manufacturers are, the FOTA series wouldn't have lasted any more than a couple of years before they all said "nah can't be bothered" and the actual race teams would have been left high and dry regretting their greed, had the FOTA bluff been called. but it was a bluff, they had no intention of breaking away

[@tobihaifisch7558]

Seriously, the Helsinki street circuit NEVER worked properly for anything bigger than F3 cars.

[@sheldoniusRex]

It's the love of money which is the root of all evil. Money itself is simply a medium of exchange.

[@joribremer5260]

What would have happened if a break up really happened..

[@willyum6397]

the cost cap different rules sounds to me a little like what happened in motogp in 2016 (i think???)

[@johannessamuelsson6578]

oh yeah, the dngine concessiions and the Open class.

[@AndyFromBeaverton]

13:06 Insert Mosley picture in his Nazi/BDSM uniform here.

[@NonFlyiingDutchman]

no such picture exists

[@AidanMillward]

Wasn’t it the girls who were dressed up rather than him?

[@AndyFromBeaverton]

@@AidanMillward I don't think all the videos were ever made public. I assumed he had his dad Oswald's uniform on.

[@steckelton717]

​@@AidanMillwarddepends, Mosley Junior or sr, cause one very definitely wore Nazi uniforms. (But yeah, Mosley jr. in that case wasn't doing that.) Hitler joined his Dads wedding at Goebbels house though, so that's a thing I guess.

[@sheldoniusRex]

​@@AndyFromBeaverton no. Max is nowhere near that based. He'd be a lot cooler if he was.

[@jacekatalakis8316]

To be fair, 1996 was just 1979 but this time Penske and Pat Patrick were on the other side of it. Gurney's White Paper highlights a ton of issues that haven't ever, really, been solved though. Also as a rugby (league and union) fan, the founding of rugby, aka, some twat at a posh school picked up a ball and ran aroun with it, and we got a new sport, and then the two coes, league and union. Or the STCC split in the late 2010s which was own to, I dunno, he version I got told by a drunk Swede was car owners got bored, they fucked off to start their own series

[@leonbrooke5587]

it always felt to me like when Bernie proposed medals for finishing on the podium and the champion was the driver with the most golds - they didn't want to break away but they didn't think normal negotiation would get them what they wanted, so they propose something extreme and then compromise on what they actually wanted all along

[@irvhh143]

Recent ruling against FIFA prevents the sanctioning body from penalizing players who compete in non-sanctioned events. This takes away a major weapon in the war against breakaway series.

[@andygreener3130]

Power play 100% Not one of the current team members within F1 has what it takes to organise the sport and duck and dive politically the same way Bernie did. They all owe the man everything they have but seldom remember that. His fortune is built on the fact that he initially offered out an equal share to all teams (of the tv rights) and none of them accepted because it was money better spent testing in their views.

[@dylanangel2870]

we could have has something fun but no everyone stuck with boremula1

[@rexthewolf3149]

Because just because something is exciting doesn’t mean it will succeed, just look at Indy right now.

[@landiahillfarm6590]

Getting dizzy... 🤢

[@thomasdickinson9093]

"The love of money" 1 Timothy 6 :10

[@T_Mo271]

F1 breakaways are always strategic ploys.

[@Bigmancorb]

Never knew Tommy Robinson was involved in indy car

[@kevinprior3549]

What a load of nonsense that was!

[@mrterp04]

Dual class F1? Like NWO Hollywood & NWO Wolfpac

[@bzilla-d4i]

For me i feel these rules should be loosened because thats what F1, innovation, if we wanted to watch the same cars racing we'd be watching Indy. Also look at Toyota, they outspent everyone in the paddock and still couldn't get a win. Innovation is and always was the driving force behind F1 and killing that is killing the sport.

[@kicapanmanis1060]

Yea more revenues and popularity than ever is "killing" the sport......

[@Willie_Pete_Was_Here]

@@kicapanmanis1060that popularity isn’t sustainable

[@PorscheWilliamsformulaone2026]

What was the internet back then when formula one announced their own super league in 2009???

[@LoganHunter82]

Less races and more teams! It's that effin' simple.The people in the ruling position begin to be as out of touch of the sport as Bernie was in his final years. But expected, since most of them were already running things in F1 when Bernie was the head of F1. No wonder something rubbed off of him to them.

[@kicapanmanis1060]

They were less races and more teams in the past. Still not as popular or as much revenue generating as today. ITS SIMPLE!!!!

[@LowFatCurrantBun]

Yep, . . . if you want to make anything less fun, do it for money 💵😓. If you want to make it a lot less fun, do it for a lot of money 💰😖. Even after you blow the doors off all expectations, people will still get nervous real quick in the very next iteration 🫤. But to be fair, _"give me your money and shut up"_ doesn't sound like an attractive proposition either 😟. Probably sounds more like a mugging 🥷🔪. Even if you do get that, . . . with the existence of circumstances outside your control, the outcome won't always be perfect 📊. In that case, it's good to have someone volunteering to share the blame 😛.

[@demonicsquid7217]

F1 is losing what made it special, like football, too many grand prixs, too saturated with content, pointless 'sprint races', and cars that aren't interesting.

[@kicapanmanis1060]

I find the F1 cars today way more interesting than those in the past 30 years.