We made mild steel pistons - how will the engine operate?

[@TheHumphrey367]

Heat up a pool with an engine. Like plumb the pool water through the block run the engine and see how cool the engine stays and how warm the pool water gets lol. Ive always wanted to see that

[@АлександрАлександров-и1з]

They already did this

[@TheHumphrey367]

@@АлександрАлександров-и1з i searched and couldn't find a video

[@heavyballs8458]

OMG. LADA HOT TUB!!!

[@heavyballs8458]

You my friend are a genius

[@Allanlbrr]

@@АлександрАлександров-и1з no they didn't

[@fwaynedavis]

Since Steel does not expand as much as Aluminum, your pistons didn't swell too much. BUT...the wrist pin slop did not account for the engine locking up or the initial very hard start. The piston weight would be insignificant at starting speed (i mean, the starter can move the whole car if in gear right? The rotating assembly of that engine is probably 25 kilos or more even with aluminum pistons, another 4 kilos isnt going to do much against the starter motor. I suspect the machining of the wrist pin bore is the culprit. Also the gravity theory is not valid, as when one piston goes up another is coming down on all 4 cylinder engines. I say a do-over is needed, use bronze bushings in the wrist pins. And do it in a pre-tuned well running motor first to eliminate all the other variables! Awesome content!

[@ASoftaaja]

The wrist pin bore was probably not drilled exactly at 90 degrees angle. This would cause the piston to bind up sideways when the connecting rod was tightened and would explain the friction. I was also puzzling why the engine was so hard to turn.

[@fwaynedavis]

@@ASoftaaja Agreed!

[@MF175mp]

The wrist pin isn't supposed to move in the bore in the piston anyway, the bearing is in the conrod and the piston has tighter hole so that it won't spin.

[@captaingoldbeered803]

That’s where I’m at. It would run fine if done correctly. Steel is ok for pistons, just not as good as aluminum from a thermodynamic standpoint. Still love the channel though lol.

[@99thpeanut59]

You’re all forgetting a fundamental engine design flaw. It’s none of that. All of that is fine. You’re reading way too far into it. It’s way more simple than that. The pistons they made were round. Pistons aren’t round. They’re oblong.

[@samuelfreeman9518]

I watched a late 30s Chevrolet dealership promo film here on youtube. They exclaimed that Chevrolet uses steel pistons instead of the competitors aluminum pistons which would "obviously wear out". Also, Chevrolet bragged about not needing a oil filter because oil filters are only needed for inferior designed engines. That didn't age well.

[@isaacsrandomvideos667]

lol I love those Chevy promo videos

[@herpnderpn2484]

Steel was pretty common early on. And to be fair, if the tolerances are terrible to begin with, all you really need to do is change the oil regularly. Filter won't do much.

[@oldleatherhandsfriends4053]

But in the 30's aluminum was still really expensive and you can make steel close to the same weight with proper disign and type/grade selection. The real issue is the heat retention and steel and iron wearing on each other.

[@andrewdunbar5335]

In the 1930s engine oil was so cheap and had such a short life it wasn't worth filtering. They just used a fine wire mesh strainer to remove any large particles. Even the engines used in fighter aircraft didn't use a filter.

[@descargaelbano]

From machining over the years, I have found a Pistons are not only tapered from bottom to the top they have a slight oval to them to prevent them from expanding and scoring the bore or locking up

[@naturafibre7905]

As my experience, I agree.

[@chippyjohn1]

Thats because Aluminium has a high expansion rate and the metal is not evenly distributed throughout the piston.

[@descargaelbano]

@@chippyjohn1 Yes.

[@martin09091989]

Yea, it´s a kind of art to make the shape of a piston right. It´s very importent to have that shape so the piston rides on a oil wedge and not binde while tilting and changing direction. If you make a piston just cylindrical it rides on very small surfaces on the ends, and gets no oil shoved under those.

[@martinda7446]

🤠 I know you likely didn't intend it to read this way, and I'm being a bit pedantic, but you can't 'prevent pistons from expanding'. The only way to minimise expansion is by choice of alloy, and cooling. They are shaped, in part, to be geometrically precise at working temperature.

[@backwoodsjunkie08]

My father owned a machine shop when I was a kid. I always loved dickin around an making all kinds of stuff. I made several pistons for O.S. and Saito engine for rc aircraft and had great success! I used aluminum though. I even had an O.S. 46 that had almost 20hrs on a home made piston

[@volvo09]

That's cool! Tight tolerances too, aren't those engines ringless? Been a while since I played with them.... But it was a little .12 or .15 so...

[@mehmeh7701]

@@volvo09 i thought it was a single ring piston in those nitro engines

[@buildurtruckurway9118]

My friend did the same for his trike. He owns a small machine shop and he wanted a big bore that they don't produce for the 185/200. He took an aluminum block and machined it down to a 67.5mm piston. It had a huge dome And valve reliefs cut in and made like 12.5-1 compression. He ran it for 3 seasons before the bike started burning oil like crazy. he tore it down bored another cylinder and reused the piston with new rings and ended up selling the bike this year.

[@rocknraptor3195]

@@mehmeh7701 no, no rings! Aluminum piston, chrome lined brass sleeve.

[@rocknraptor3195]

Thats cool, i know the O.S. engines were good. If you could make the sleeves you would be set!

[@Smokey0210]

Take a front drive engine and mount it inside the car. Use the left half-shaft to power the front differential and the right to power the rear differential. It would be like 4wd without a second transfer case.

[@lustfulvengance]

That's been done before but you end up with so much gear reduction because you have the differential in the transaxle and then the axles are connected to that, the thing tops out at like 40 miles an hour lol

[@ce5243]

@@lustfulvengance you want 4wd for off-road and crawling anyways. Would work out well if it works out

[@jmferenermig]

Mastermilo did that years ago but i would love seeing garage54 do it

[@em3ls842]

They have done it, to an old rusted out samara

[@AxelP33]

They started onna samara but never finished.

[@anibalbabilonia1867]

The fact that they made their own fabricated pistons! I call that a success! And it ran!👌😂👍amazing!

[@VirtualR]

Should see their other videos with wooden and plastic pistons lol

[@carloscollomps1552]

The pin play was NOT caused by the weight of the pistons, but by the fact that you forgot to drill the pin lubricating holes in the pistons.

[@julianbrah5873]

You are correct.

[@OldCrowsClassicCars]

Another great catch! I noticed that as well

[@bradleyfreeman9010]

Yes man I noticed that when he was weighing them 🤦🏻‍♂️

[@brandonlaw2010]

Use a steam radiator as a muffler and see how quiet the engine is. Install it in the back of a lada as a heater as well as a muffler.

[@teebosaurusyou]

Some farmer has probably already done it. 🤪

[@andrewdunbar5335]

That is pretty much how the VW Beetle heater worked.

[@-A-Hybrid-Skunk-Productions-]

That was a very facinating experiment Garage 54. I was very intrigued. Thank to you all at garage 54 for putting this video together for us. Have an awesomely epic day in Mother Russia.

[@stefenheif]

Steel has a lower expansion coefficient than aluminium. The pin holding the head seemed to receive less heat than the head, then it came loose and rubbed against cylinder walls. The knocking would be all the play of the piston in the cylinder. I must say this was a good video in line with Garage 54's tradition

[@99thpeanut59]

Wrong. You are all over complicating it. It’s way simpler than that. They made circle pistons. Pistons aren’t circular. They’re oblong.

[@ottopartz1]

@@99thpeanut59 you are wrong. Lada pistons as well as just about every other piston is round from the bottom of the ring pack up. Some pistons might be oddly shaped or oblong from the ring pack down but that is a matter of choices for oil flow and clearances for the full stroke of the engine cycle. If you don't believe me, go look up the specifications for the Lada pistons and rings, they are round.

[@99thpeanut59]

Malay Maniac that’s not true lol. There’s more material where the wrist pin doesn’t reside. This means the piston expands wrong if it is made round. Pistons are made oblong so when they expand from heat they don’t score up the sides where it bulges (they become round when hot)

[@ottopartz1]

@@99thpeanut59#1 the wrist pin is below the rings #2 the rings are the only part of the piston assembly that actually make any contact with the cylinder walls #3 pistons are round hot or cold, metal can't be mass produced to have different expansion properties to change from oval to round. #4 pistons can and will be different shaped below the rings to save weight and other reasons but it doesn't matter because the rings are the only part that make any contact with the cylinder walls

[@mfree80286]

@@99thpeanut59 It's simpler than that, even. I never saw anyone drill any oil ports in those pistons.

[@1984xlx]

Fascinating experiment! And I am impressed with your teams machining skills. Those pistons turned out great. So even though it didn't run very long, I'd still call this a success.

[@kad_blazedgaming_991]

I think it would be fun to see y’all make all the parts of an engine starting with the rotating assembly like the conrods, crank, etc then the head and the block. I know it would be hard but it would be pretty cool long term project.

[@raven4k998]

mild steel failed that's why you need hardened steel pistons🤣🤣

[@watajob]

I gotta' tell ya': Your level of sophistication has increased many orders of magnitude since the beginning. Really cool. And, we appreciate all your projects... even the few that go south.

[@GoldenCroc]

Going south? Nah, all of their projects have a 107% success rate!

[@maikeru01]

I saw this video on a different channel a few weeks ago about a one wheel motorcycle that was kind of eye opening for me in terms of the way engines work. We take for granted that the wheels turn on a car or a bike when you give it gas but on the one wheeler, after all the work they did, the grip from the tires kept the wheel in place, and swung the rest of the thing around until it hit the ground, then once the tank or the seat or fender hits the ground, only then it's there enough resistance that the wheel could actually turn and move the bike forward. That's what these heavy pistons are reminding me of. If it isn't precisely engineered, it isn't going to act how you think it should. It almost ceases to be an engine.

[@mikeznel6048]

What's this "we" take for granted stuff?

[@scootergem]

It is very gratefully appreciated that you tried this. It failed, but that is when we really learn. Thank you for all your efforts. Kudos my friends!

[@MathieuTechMoto]

Best mecanic channel i've ever known, i'm surprised that they are not even 1M subs yet !

[@televisionandcheese]

Тhey're at 3.75 million subs + this channels subs

[@sheiladawg1664]

25:15 is that a power outlet next to a power washer wand? PERFECT!

[@sungear]

This kind of stuff does way more for international diplomatic relations than any politician. I love the Ukranian attitude.

[@steve0680657]

Ukraine.

[@sungear]

@@steve0680657 thanks, i wasn't sure. I'm a somewhat ignorant westerner regarding Ukraine vs Russia, etc. I'll update the post.

[@SwapBlogRU]

@@sungear as a Russian myself with some Ukrainian blood in me (who has relatives/friends living there) - I feel like we're a common ethnos. But the influence of certain powerful groups of people acting in the name of their own interests (which I'm not going to pretend that I fully comprehend) has driven us apart, unfortunately. Commonfolk get along, always have and always will, but the powers that be are on their own wavelength, they have their own motivation, and as far as they're concerned we're all expendable.

[@SwapBlogRU]

Honestly, to me (and I feel like that's how any healthy human being will feel) there does not exist a single nationality or race that I'd be prejudiced against by default "just because". In this day and age a bunch of us have become "worldly", and we all know that every nation has its jackasses, but also has its amazing and cool people. Yes, different peoples/races have their peculiarities and quirks associated with such, but as a general rule that is not what determines whether they're fundamentally good or bad people. I mean, speaking for myself - when I meet someone from, say, Nigeria, Vietnam, Hungary, Argentina or some other far away country, I'm intrigued and curious, first and foremost, certainly not negatively charged because of some BS stereotypes. But then if we discuss cars - then it's going to be a different story) I can be a major dickhead when it comes to the subject, I enjoy taking jabs at BMW's and their owners on account of them not using their turn signals and topping off their motor oil each time before going for a drive))

[@Adam-im4hm]

@@SwapBlogRU yes for sure, a lot of us have terrible governments. Mine is no different.

[@Gabja]

I must say, the editing and music on your videos is always top notch. 👌

[@thatguyalex2835]

I love both also. The electronic music is pretty cool, like electro and trap. While I don't typically like the latter, it goes well on this mechanical fooling around channel. :)

[@dodgydruid]

They used steel before alloy so they should have worked. My guess is, a steel piston would have had its inner area scoured out to give a very light mass so when heat was accumulated, the piston itself didn't excessively swell but done in such a way to give strength still to the gudgeon pin support. If you look at how an alloy piston is designed, every ounce of excess material is removed above and below the pin except for the two shoulder supports and a reasonable thickness to give the crown strength and also to allow oil to splatter up from the rod to the inner crown face to give some cooling there too which is supposed to aid anti fouling on the exterior crown face. I reckon you should knock off externally another thou or so to cope with expansion, measure the piston body when cold then measure after heating it to glowing and you will be seriously surprised how much bigger it is. So with some engineering maths you can work out how much to shave off the exterior diameter and have a perfectly fitting piston.

[@99thpeanut59]

It’s a lot simpler than that. He cut the pistons round. Pistons aren’t round. They’re oblong. So they failed.

[@nerd1000ify]

@@99thpeanut59 For many years before cam grinding equipment became available pistons were turned round on a lathe. Round pistons work. Of course the uneven expansion means that the piston to bore clearance must be larger, and the contact between the piston skirt and the cylinder liner is less optimal, meaning more friction and a need for a longer, heavier piston to withstand the side forces without excessive wear. Some engines were still made this way up to the 1950s, especially those that had cast iron pistons which don't expand as much as aluminium ones.

[@Numer1Polak]

Just look up a Detroit Diesel 60 EGR piston. Diesels have been doing it for over 20 years. The top is round and tapers to the center as a transfer point to the pin which saves weight and allows the top to expand evenly then only thin skirts are left as guides.

[@Trumplican]

lots of old engines had cast iron pistons so this should work too. the heat transfer sucks but it should work. you have to get the piston to cylinder wall clearance right though.

[@plkracer]

I bet the steel was partially stress relieved when it heated up, the drawn rod they were made from has a ton of residual stress. Would be interesting to measure them after the fact. Your wrist pin was likely bending inside the bores due to the extra weight as well, which would destroy the tolerances in short order.

[@OldCrowsClassicCars]

I think with a few key modifications, it could be made practical...Cast iron pistons were used in the 40s. Correct clearance, drill holes for wrist pin lubrication, correct counterweights on crankshaft, correct hole angle for wrist pin and it would be a useable piston.

[@prinzeugenvansovoyen732]

steel pistons when used in tractors have a piston ring at the bottom that keeps them centered so no direct steel on steel contact can occur

[@peglor]

Aren't piston rings usually made from steel?

[@prinzeugenvansovoyen732]

@@peglor hard chrome plated spring steel its a spring so it gives a bit and doesnt shave off material or create much friction

[@OldCrowsClassicCars]

Interesting.I had never heard of that

[@ardennielsen3761]

the piston to cylinder wall clearance on a air cooled 1983 Yamaha XJ650 that rev's to 11'000rpm is around 2mm to 3mm. ring gap 36 thousandths of an inch. has holes under the oil scrapers that pressurize oil onto the wrist pin as the piston moves down.

[@6628guitarhero]

How light can you make a stock rotating assembly? Shave what you can from the piston, rods, and crank. Like the episode when you guys cut off the crank counter weights

[@ThisisForTheTV]

17:38 Black 4th Gen Honda Prelude.

[@darcymcrae3619]

I’d love to see you try that again but harden the pistons first to hopefully prevent that from happening!

[@OldCrowsClassicCars]

great idea!

[@mungmungie]

I have to admit, Vlad is even more entertaining after a couple of vodka & irish creams. At 13:14--there's a sound I remember. Back in the early 1980s, a "friend" installed some aircraft spark plugs and advanced the ignition in my Lada. Eventually, it burned holes right through the pistons. I drove over the Rocky Mountains on one cylindar, pulling a trailer. Ladas are almost unstoppable.

[@micinum]

Drill out the pistons from the inside to lower the weight and make them the same weight. Fabricate new pins. Weld weights on the crankshaft cunterweights (how much? your piston - the stock piston = your cunterweight). It will work like a new engine, everything was out of balance how do you expect it to run?!

[@anythingrc4715]

I think you spelled counterweight wrong 💀

[@Conservator.]

Exactly. This engine was bound to vibrate itself out of existence in no time. They’d also have to put extra weight on the balancing axis (if there are any).

[@OldCrowsClassicCars]

great point!

[@3dartstudio007]

Great episode. Super interesting. This is the kind of stuff I wonder about all the time. On to different alloys of pistons? Love these "what if" scenarios!

[@operator8014]

Make a hydraulic brake setup where you can pump each tires brakes individually, like how new vehicle stability systems work. Test it to see if it's as good as a locking differential, and if it can help you when sliding around on ice.

[@peglor]

These are known as fiddle brakes and are used in some classes of off road vehicle where the driver does the steering/gears and the co-driver operates 4 levers, one for the brake on each wheel. Here's an example - they use locked differentials too, but a switch on the brake levers disengages the diff lock when they're using the fiddle brakes: kzbin.info/www/bejne/lZvOpXWthst1gKc&ab_channel=OffroadAddictionTV

[@winnaingtun2744]

In dynamic action, we think about one of many things. It's that weight of piston(s) is more and than flyweight (weight of flywheel) is more to continue spin running. Any way I like this experimentation, and thank you all.

[@thehulkamaniabrother2.089]

I'm really impressed with all the precision machining that you guys have done on this channel. You guys are excellent machinists

[@TheAsheybabe89]

Lol nah. Those pistons wouldn't have had that much variance in weight if that were true

[@Eva-augustin]

I guess you impressed by a pile of horse 💩 too huh…that was horrendous

[@seekingtko3146]

Its more ingenuity than anything else

[@thehulkamaniabrother2.089]

@@seekingtko3146 I just want that manual lathe that they have lol. I have a Bridgeport milling machine in my shop but no lathe😥

[@mrmatt2525able]

@@Eva-augustin can you do better?

[@robertwest3093]

I love plan B (or P)! These guys go all out making sure engines start and run if just for a few minutes.

[@MF175mp]

You should try silicon bronze pistons for less friction, will it consume less fuel?

[@dustinandtarynwolfe5540]

That's actually a really solid idea dude. I'd like to see how that works as well.

[@Jonas_Aa]

VW made in the recent years a low friction piston by making low friction rings. All that did was to make the engine eat more oil. VW says it is ok for 1 liter (~1 quart) for every 2000 km (1240 miles).

[@MF175mp]

@@Jonas_Aa the rings probably were similar than previously but had just less preload to them.

[@nitrorcmaster1]

@@Jonas_Aa yep. ‘And not to mention VW will not permit you adding engine oil if it’s a lease, you cannot change or add oil on your own, so the guy at the dealership I know is seeing these motors come in all the time with little or no oil. Junk design

[@Jonas_Aa]

@@MF175mp probably. Makes a mess though.

[@Texassince1836]

Need to drill oil holes through the piston on the lower piston ring like the stock pistons

[@JOHNKESSLER88]

A vintage John deere "D" tractor has factory cast iron pistons the size of paint buckets.

[@thatguyalex2835]

Nice. :) Cast iron is almost black, and as we know, black pistons are better in every way. Ok, I'll step out.

[@daviedood2503]

8:00 piston weights You have to find the heaviest one and place it on 1 end of the engine, and find the second heaviest and place it on the opposite end to try and counter balance it. If you place the heaviest 1 and the 2nd heaviest next to each other, one side will weight too much and can vibrate way more. I suggest placing the 3rd heaviest one next to the 2nd heaviest and the 4th one next to the 1st heaviest. This will, try to balance it out as best it can without having to try and remove more metal, or adding a tiny Counter weight to add to the lighter ones.

[@steve0680657]

Not quite. Pistons 1 and 4 moved together. You want 1= heaviest 2 = 4thheaviest 3= 2nd heaviest 4= 3rd heaviest

[@daviedood2503]

@@steve0680657 I was thinking the heaviest on piston 1 and the next heaviest on piston 4 Then the next heaviest on 3rd piston and next heaviest on piston 2 I don't know if that's the same thing that you're saying, but that's what I was trying to convey up there. It made sense in my head but I have a hard time explaining things at times. My thought was to try to counter balance the weight on opposite ends of the motor. Then use the others to try and offset as much as possible to reduce shaking.

[@steve0680657]

@@daviedood2503 I think your method is better than mine. It makes sense to have the 2 heaviest "fighting" each other in positions 1&2. The crank is less likely to snap then. 👍

[@MVRocinanteGold]

Because 1 & 4 move together, and 2 & 3 move together, I would try to make each pair as close in weight to the other pair as possible, so pair "A" would have the heaviest and the lightest pistons, pair "B" would have the two middles. Then, I would put pair A in pistons 2 & 3, with the heaviest of them in 2. Pair B goes in 1 & 4, with the heaviest of that pair in 1. So, the order from 1 to 4 would be: 1- second heaviest.. 2- heaviest.. 3- lightest.. 4- second lightest. This would be the best I could do to minimize gross imbalance between a heavy pair and a light pair, and also to reduce secondary imbalances and twisting moments (the torque couple between 1 & 2 would be offset by the couple between 2 & 4.. even though 4 is lighter than 1, 4 has twice the lateral distance to 2)

[@danielclifton6140]

How about seeing how long you can make a inlet and exhaust manifold and how it performs

[@DarkLinkAD]

zoomies

[@1992heavychevy]

Cummins and cat have been doing this for years. Piston top is steel and skirt is aluminum to help wear. They are a 2 piece design with wrist pin connecting the 2

[@Universal.G]

Hey Vlad, you know what would really be EPIC, if Garage 54 made their own engine from scratch!! That would kick ass!!!

[@MrBanaanipommi]

it would require stuff that costs a lot and takes time to plan the engine

[@realrickharrison3103]

@@MrBanaanipommi Nothing will stop garage 54

[@BruceCarbonLakeriver]

@@MrBanaanipommi welders grinders and steel. That's enough for Garage54 to get it done LOL

[@MrBanaanipommi]

@@BruceCarbonLakeriver loool...

[@Universal.G]

@@BruceCarbonLakeriver 😂👏

[@superbmediacontentcreator]

I love these guys and the International nature of this content! Everything is done at the harry edge all the time in such privative conditions. The translation is sometimes hilarious too!

[@Turboy65]

The steel pistons would expand LESS from heat than the aluminum ones. Aluminum has a higher coefficent of thermal expansion than iron or steel.

[@TowerCrisis]

I think part of the issue is the center of mass is way above the pin on the piston. When the rod swings around, it pushes the piston to the side. When the piston gets pushed to the side, it rotates in the bore and the piston skirt kits the opposing wall first. Then on the upstroke, since the piston is already rotated, it pushes the top against the other side of the cylinder just because the center of mass is so far above the pin. Standard OEM pistons actually have a very carefully offset pin to try and counteract this and reduce piston rattle.

[@mikeznel6048]

I love all the comments about how they should have done this or that to do it right. The whole point of this was to make heavy and unbalance pistons to see what happens. What fun would it be if they made them perfect and as they should be made? Might as well just buy new pistons and swap swap out if they were to do that. The whole point of doing it like this was for entertainment. They know everything there is to know about engine anatomy.

[@theothertonydutch]

Fun? We wouldn't want fun on our internet now would we? Why, we might be entertained and enjoy our time here, even!

[@ohm1945]

@Mike Znel Yep, these guys really do know the guts of an engine. They’re creative fellows and an awesome source of our entertainment and education.

[@FragTheFirst]

Really interesting one this video. Unexpected result for sure. An idea : how light can you machine regular pistons before they become too weak? As in drilling small, shallow holes in the bottom of them, removing wall thickness, etc? What would a lightened piston do to engine performance - higher max RPM? Faster revving up? Rougher idle?

[@illdeletethismusic]

if you lighten all pistons the same amount you could get faster revving and higher max RPM, if you only test them one by one you will get vibrations

[@K-Effect]

Make an engine block out of wood but use steel piston sleeves and install metallic bearings wherever necessary and use the original cylinder head, manifold accessories etc. but build a block out of wood. If not wood use epoxy, concrete anything you can think of

[@corywoodrow3802]

3D printed

[@aneshramsaroop8436]

Wood won't handle the torque to mount the head bolts

[@Texassince1836]

Cars used to use steel pistons. You can mill out alot more metal to get the weight down to ~650g and make the pistons tighter to the bore than you would aluminum. Steel expands less than aluminum

[@jeffp5730]

The pistons dont rub the wall. Thats what the rings are for. So the coating should have no bearing in how it turns over

[@notavailable9919]

isn't it the cylinder wall that should be coated?

[@mikeznel6048]

Pistons certainly do rub the cylinder wall. The pistons rings are to seal it for compression and oil control. The skirt of the piston will rub the cylinder wall. The coating of oil between the piston and cylinder wall is what prevents excessive wear.

[@mikeznel6048]

@@notavailable9919 No, its coated pistons. The cylinder walls are coated with oil.

[@alirezaeskandari2287]

You never clickbait that's why i love your channel.

[@got2kittys]

I've seen this done on a motorcycle and it ran perfectly. There's some other issue. Rings for an aluminum piston may need more end gap, in a steel piston. Just a theory, hehehe!

[@KrisisVal]

Back in the early days of the combustion engine, pistons were made out of steel, they would glow a dim red color during operation. But then Jaguar decided to make pistons out of aluminum and when they fixed all the problems, it revolutionized combustion engines. Diesel engines however still use steel pistons sometimes.

[@oldfarmertrucker1996]

Try to make wooden intake valves see how well that works

[@KvngCotto]

those would easily break

[@mikeznel6048]

@@KvngCotto Breaking wouldn't be the issue. Burning would destroy them. The hot combustion gases leaving the cylinder on the exhaust stroke would burn the exhaust valve first likely before they would burn from combustion. There are some incredibly hard and tough tight grain hard woods. You would would surprised how tough they are. You couldn't break a piece the size of a pencil with your hands.

[@volvo09]

That was an impressive amount of work for an experiment, good work! At also failed in a different manner than I expected, cool!

[@sacr3]

Steel expands differently than aluminum, you would probably have to change the dimensions to allow for more clearance. Still also holds on to heat a lot longer than aluminum due to its density There is a thrust side to all Pistons, the side that pushes up against the cylinder wall as it rises due to the angle of the piston arm, when this giant chunk of steel expands from the heat it'll make more contact on the thrust side leaving gouges That's my assumption at this point. Piston rings are known to destroy engines after people end up throwing superchargers or turbos on their engine without rebuilding it. Due to the increase to heat and pressure the piston ring expands a little further than it should and makes contact with itself which forces it to warp, this warping action damages cylinder walls and the piston. Pistons have blown apart because of this before.

[@emilschw8924]

Love this channel, gives me answers to some of my questions... Thank you for taking your time to do experiments on cars and show us the results of said experiments.

[@MF175mp]

You need hard chrome liners for steel pistons.

[@MF175mp]

Even then the pistons are usually cast iron as well as the piston rings.

[@AmritGrewal31]

@@MF175mp why chrome specifically?

[@MF175mp]

@@AmritGrewal31 Nikasil or anything hard and slippery will do fine as well. But the factory made engines used in the old days that had cast iron pistons had usually chrome liners

[@AmritGrewal31]

@@MF175mp hard and slippery strokes better, huhn?

[@MF175mp]

@@AmritGrewal31 if the piston and liner are basically of the same material (both iron based) and relatively close in hardness, you maximise the risk of galling them together. You could probably also go softer like bearing bronze liners but it would wear much faster then

[@fullboostturbo1]

The reason these pistons all had same wear marks was due to them drilling the wrist pin holes OFF CENTER. Also if they actually made all the pistons weigh the same this motor would have ran perfectly until such revs that the Connecting rods or Crankshaft broke from too much weight/force.

[@Jonas_Aa]

Piston seemed to be missing oil holes for the axel that goes through the rod.

[@austinmaxi]

I think some of it is down to the design of the piston, the gudgeon pin being an interference fit in the rod, and not in the piston instead, I think made a BIG deal on why the pin holes ovaled out in the piston. If the little end would have been a floating type with the interference fit in the piston, the contact point of the pin in the piston would have been much larger to spread the load..and that there's no wear potential too, it would have worked for a lot longer..

[@jreererer8490]

You should bore out the engine cylinders to get higher displacement and make custom pistons for them and see the HP gain

[@MrDerbee]

Very interesting and informative experiment; proof that the type of materials used in engines is critical to proper running. The engine may start and run, but only for a very short time!

[@willierule3744]

I think the Pistons since their steel they swell too much in heat so once they cool they will shrink and it'll run again

[@wowzzing5571]

Steel expands less with heat then aluminum.

[@willierule3744]

@@wowzzing5571 I did not know that I thought it was the other way around but I guess that's what you get when you assume things I just assumed that steel would expand more thanks for the information I know better now have a good night

[@andystewart5864]

Pistons are not round but oval... thinner where the gudgeon pin is. This needs to be thinner as there is more mass there and it expands more, without extra clearance the motor will seize. This extra load on the top end pin will deform the hole and cause knocking and deform the pin hole even more. I learnt this when I had custom alloy pistons made for a 2 stroke motor, same thing happened, not enough clearance. Nice video, great work

[@charlieandersson4069]

forged metal expands more then cast does, but if you try to heat the pistonsuntil they glowe and fast cool them in oil it might reinforce them enough to not bend the pistons from the crank pin housing under load.

[@timw6596]

As the cylinder fired it caused the piston to slam down on the pin and being soft steal it did not take more then a few hundred slams down to cause the steal to deform ! The pins, rods and crank was stronger then the mild steal pistons ! Good fun all the same !

[@Quebecer_Powerstroke]

Newer Ford Super Duty with the 6.7 Powerstroke diesel use forged steel pistons and it work really well ! (Third gen 6.7 2020+)

[@teebosaurusyou]

Piston skirts are oval because their load capacity is different on an axis the same as the wrist pin versus perpendicular to the axis of the wrist pin. Load capacity depends on clearance. Friction loss is also dependent on clearance. Therefore, the lower load capacity axis of the piston skirt has a larger clearance which saves friction and fuel.

[@JH-oh1in]

I think utilizing the aluminum skirt and just made the crown billet as some diesels do. Other wise a slipper skirt design may be good? And always make sure the hole is round and on size.

[@bradlys4978]

Its not the effects of gravity because they balance each other out. rather it would be more resistance due to centrifugal force and inertia due to the extra mass. Great video. good entertainment. The scratches are due to the casting of the motor being of a softer material than the steel pistons. Also at one point in the past cast iron pistons were the only type of pistons available.

[@animalfarm7467]

May I suggest you research Cam-Ground Pistons. Pistons skirts are not circular but are elliptical, with the minor axis parallel to the wrist pin. And given the linear coefficient of thermal expansion for steel is less than that of aluminum, it is unlikely the material selection is the reason for seizure. But using the factory cam-ground clearances for non-Cam-Ground pistons may be the reason for piston seizure. Also, with that much discrepancy in mass (e.g. 300g - 1300g), the second harmonic from the piston would have attempted to hammer the con-rod bearings flat at high engine RPM. Remember, the 300g you measured for the mass of the factory piston is offset by the counterweights on the crankshaft. The additional 1000g difference is pure unbalanced mass and would have resulted in large forces outside of the design parameters of the engine. These forces would be roughly proportional to that unbalanced mass and the square of the engine RPM.

[@godfreypoon5148]

MrCrispin has a video you should watch - "Choose the Right Material!" Some materials do not play well together. When they slide against each other, they pick up and gall and make a heck of a mess. You may have found such a pair.

[@ardennielsen3761]

oil passages under the oil scrapping rings, that force oil into the wrist pin holes as the piston moves down the cylinder... fixing could be as simple as a drilling a 4-6mm slot under the oil scraping rings that goes to a 3mm hole that ends where the wrist pin is? minimum of two per piston "each side of the wrist pin"! but if its running 11'000rpm, there are slots under the oil scraping ring that also direct the oil onto the center of the piston as well as the piston wrist pin oil galleries.

[@benjurqunov]

Nice guys ! Draining oil right into the floor sewer.

[@altonrowell613]

Interesting information. I always use lead for my pistons.

[@Jin88866]

When having problems tow starting the engine, try putting it in 3rd gear and increasing the speed before releasing the clutch.

[@sjaakvanengelen4072]

we had big dredger with steel pistons.Stork 6500 horse each.4 engines were installed

[@samleen]

Could you make your own opposed piston engine by bolting another engine block on top?

[@jezza4338]

Love what you guys get up to!

[@brianhaygood183]

13:45 Neighbors thinking, "that's the most normal thing that has ever come out of that shop."

[@dennisford2000]

Pistons are not round but have taper in cases . Further aluminum expansion is 2+ times steel . Cast iron. Trying to cast and machine them . The graphite in cast should help lube .

[@leowuli8381]

I've done a little reserch: Steel pistons are used in some modern diesel engines, even race engines. This is a very new technology, it reduces weight and friction. 3% Fuel saving has been accieved. Main problem is cooling issues due to bad heat transport capability.

[@aussiebloke4601]

A lot of weed wacker / line trimmer engines have aluminium cylinders and steel pistons.

[@leowuli8381]

@@aussiebloke4601 Are you sure that they are steel and not cast iron? I have some engines with steel/cast iron piston myself, e.g. a 1940 2 stroke petrol engine. It has a cast iron cylinder, but I wasn't sure if the piston is steel or cast iron. Heavy it is anyway...

[@aussiebloke4601]

@@leowuli8381 True they are a bit like cast iron but harder to break, they seem to bend a lot before they crack.

[@jamest.5001]

You guys check piston to valve 'skrew yew' I think it revs fast and de-revs fast because of high compression! It is likely spark knocking, detonating!

[@ardennielsen3761]

3mm holes under the oil scraping rings, that goes to the wrist pin. racing engines have them

[@austinkreller4336]

its 9:08 in the video and im curious to know if they have machined proper tolerance between piston and cylinder so when the piston is warm it dosent sieze in the cylinder

[@carbineZDH1]

Just a thought, and if i missed it in the video i apologize but were the pins milled in center of the piston? Incase there was supposed to be a piston offset and make all the pistons directional and if reversed accidentally then they will wear heavy parallel to the pin then destroy the pin bearing in combination with the weight of the pistons themselves.

[@homelessEh]

dual 208 cc motors indipendant rear wheel drive. a motor for each drive wheel hooked up and throttled in unicen . or tiller throttle steer

[@carolineverner9773]

Remember watching the one where u made pistons out off wood I've been hooked ever since

[@goranmiskulin5903]

Great video like always...I think hole in oil scraper ring is not enough for lubrication, it should be more of them

[@ДжонПартлов]

The thing about the expansion of steel and aluminum veil is that still does not expand nearly as much as aluminum does I believe so if the Pistons have the same tolerances as other aluminum counterparts then there really should’ve been no way they would’ve heat seized. Another thing to consider about pistons aluminum pistons that is is that the thin area of the skirt underneath the connecting rod, Not the long part of the skirt but the short part of the skirt, is actually narrower than the rest of the piston due to the heat expansion of that aluminum being thicker and it will grow more. In other words the Pistons are actually elliptical not round

[@MyFabian94]

Steel Piston were normal up to the 1920s. Mercedes were the first one to Mass Produce Aircraft Engines with Aluminum Pistons in 1918. They allowed for far more Power and solved a lot of Problems because Steel Pistons simply don't discipate Heat very well and need very large Tolerances.

[@cliffcampbell8827]

The weight of the pistons might be a bit of a problem in a high speed reciprocating motion. I'm only a few minutes in and I am eager to see how this ends up. I was expecting the pistons to either go through the cylinder head or the connecting rods to snap or the crankshaft would break. I wasn't expecting the engine to seize.

[@pum882]

The head gasket rings are deformed, this means that the engine suffered from detonation. The most probable cause is the too high compression ratio, which is probably due to a non precise wrist pin vertical location. The worn wrist pin hole could have been caued by the said detonation

[@French20cent]

I think those head gasket rings have this shape from factory. When the rings are deformed because of detonation, you can see burn marks everywhere, here the gasket is still brand new. Also, with the amount of rpm and throttle he gave for only 500 meters at best, even at 13 to 1 there is no risk of detonating. Finally, the compression ratio must be low since they did not make grooves for the valves, and there has been no contact between the valves and the piston, it must be around 8.5 to 1.

[@michailokeefeMooMoo]

Theses guys are genies’s what will they think of next. You just gotta love them

[@sb350allday]

With the added weight in the piston couldn’t you add a couple flywheels to carry the momentum better it should have smoother rpm fluctuations

[@kylereese4822]

Needs an electric motor running on the crank pully to add torque to compensate for the heavy pitons thus keeping the revs up to around 800-900rpm on tick over and between gear changes...

[@lilsammywasapunkrock]

Or you could just bump up the idle

[@stancefraternity2641]

I like your mindset, trying everything. Try big speaker magnets as piston heads.

[@the_kombinator]

The footage from the drive shows like 75% old Japanese cars. It's about what I saw in Vladivostok myself.