We Made Your Average Disc Golf Basket Better

[@imgnatkursld]

I think smaller baskets would really slow down the pace of play. it wouldn't be nearly as fun watching people lay up every C2 putt and spending forever chaining out

[@discgolfdetails9889]

The guys I play with already do that. I don't think your avg course should change anytime soon as the baskets are already in good shape. No need to waste the money. What I would like to see is a professional basket used on the DGPT to make putting interesting to watch. Guys are making 100% of putts for entire events. A two putt now and then wouldn't hurt. Plus shouldn't the guy who put his shot to 5 feet get a better score then the guy who put it to 35?

[@coachjordan1717]

@@discgolfdetails9889 So only the elite disc golf players get to play on the new baskets and the rest of us plebs get the old ones? That divides the player base and makes things exclusive for certain people while the rest of us get left out. Sounds like ball golf to me.

[@discgolfdetails9889]

@@coachjordan1717 Initially yes. Do you think it makes sense to ask you local parks department to pony up 7-8 Grand to buy new baskets when they may have done so in the last 5 years? Eventually yes I could see it becoming the norm over many years, but for sure not right away. Heck I play a course that has cones and it's from the 70's. Get out and throw.

[@discgolfdetails9889]

@David Fowler I'm not saying they don't deserve a birdie. But currently the odds of the top pro making the 35 footer is very high. If it was more like 50/50 or 60/40 then the guy who parks it makes up that stroke more often. Versus now a 35 footer is probably closer to 75/25, maybe even 80/20. I mean we have had multiple players go 4 rounds and not miss a single putt from inside of 33 feet. Top putters are 95% in C1 and have 100% perfect tournaments. We can stand to see a few more misses per round to make putting exciting, because it is already boring now. I'm talking about 33 feet on in. Guys simply make the putts too often to make it uninteresting to watch. If name your top pro has a 25 footer do you expect them to make it or miss? Obviously you expect them to make it because they do like 90 plus percent of the time.

[@coachjordan1717]

@@discgolfdetails9889 So all these baskets that the pdga have approved over the years would be worthless. The manufacturers that invested lots of money would not be happy, lawsuits would follow. The PDGA isn't going to risk it just to make it more challenging for Paul Mcbeth and less exciting for the fans. I want them to make all their C1 which is the most boring aspect of the game so we can move on to the next hole.

[@RettHill]

It’d be interesting to see the pro tour bring 18 of these to each event for the pros to use. Could be a good challenge. Maybe, it’d help bring distance of holes down since they can’t rely on 60 ft putts

[@RGMDG]

Or install these on easier par three courses to make the course more challenging for tournament play?

[@discgolfisbetter]

In case you’re interested, Dynamic Discs actually put a set of Marksman’s up for a tournament and did a vlog on it. kzbin.info/www/bejne/hXi9iY2Zqa2doKM If the pro tour ever changed the baskets, I don’t think they should go all the way to single chain, but shrinking it is definitely a good idea.

[@discgolfdetails9889]

@@RGMDG For me this season many holes have pushed players out to 60 feet. These 500 foot downhill par 3's. I feel like if we have to make holes 500 feet to challenge players why can't we just make putting harder instead?

[@RGMDG]

@@discgolfdetails9889 Agreed.

[@adroehm]

Or maybe as they play multiple rounds in a tournament, the baskets get switched to thin ones for 1 or 2 rounds. It becomes the challenging round, is interesting to watch, they know it's coming, and averages out some of the total scores.

[@ChrisNeff]

“2 discs wide” is logical and compelling, but I think the “putting is to easy” comment comes from watching lead card every weekend. The rest of the field is not making it look so easy. Long putts and aces are arguably the most exciting things in the sport, why rarify the excitement?

[@kalehorvath]

Good point. I'm really split on this issue. ( at the pro-level, of course. Not for us normal guys, haha)

[@connorpainter]

There's actually a good reason why a smaller basket might do the opposite of rarifying the excitement. A smaller basket would make aces, throw-ins, and long putts rarer, but it would make them proportionally more thrilling when they happen. The range in which a putt is considered "impressive" if it's cashed gets closer to the basket - maybe changing from 50 feet to circle's edge for the professionals. Everyone has more circle's edge putts than 50-foot putts during an average round, meaning more chances for excitement. In that sense, excitement is actually made more frequent.

[@martyjenkins3631]

The smaller baskets would make excellent practice putt baskets. Then the real baskets on the course would look easy.

[@johnr8645]

The basket cage feels almost too tall in comparison another small note although not sure but the new basket didnt seem to have the slight outward flare. 2 small factors that could make a huge difference on perception and feel. Love the work!

[@micah_lee]

The MVP he has has really short, flared out cages

[@RobbieCDiscgolf]

Neal’s “Oh my Gord!” Might just be my new text tone. 🤣🤣🤣

[@nealsphoto1]

*Gourd 🤘

[@MysticAce39]

I’ve never had an issue with the baskets personally. I feel like it creates a lot more hype moments on tour.

[@TrashPandaDiscGolf]

Like this comment if Neal needs to be in more videos 😂

[@johnr8645]

You guys are the next Jonathan and Johannes.

[@dakotawest4119]

Neal needs to be around more!!

[@philipshane768]

Just a thought but if you're adjusting the diameter by a certain % then wouldn't you address the distance between the chain assembly and the basket as well? Essential making a smaller scale version??

[@crunchy_dg1191]

Your link is broken if you click it directly, make sure you take of the last parentheses!

[@longway2pro]

I take a little bit of issue with the argument for smaller baskets as a whole, but you're forgetting that UltraStars remain PDGA-legal. In addition, Condors are also that much oversized, so the standard baskets, in my opinion, are still the perfect size, taking into consideration the largest discs that remain PDGA legal. Although those discs are still not used often, for many, regular "catch discs" are their entrance into disc golf, so not only would shrinking baskets effectively eliminate discs from being used in the sport, it would also make it harder for people to get into disc golf WITHOUT buying disc golf-specific discs, something which is both environmentally unfriendly AND an obstacle to people getting into the sport. I know it's trendy to talk about shrinking the basket, but the ripple effects would be wide-ranging. Yes, it would probably make the sport harder to shrink the basket, but why does that matter? Do we see amateurs tearing up the tour because it's easy to putt on the baskets currently in the ground? Do we see pros win by double-digits when their putt has looked shaky? The answer to both of these questions is of course, no. There's already an established basket size that is installed on tens of thousands (probably more, I haven't checked the actual numbers) of courses, so why would make those baskets effectively obsolete by changing specs for the sport?? Another thing, disc golf is not regular golf. Just because the golf hole is designed to be the diameter of two balls, that does not mean that disc golf needs to follow. It's time to let disc golf be its own sport, and to stop the comparison between hockey with soccer. There, I've said my peace. =D

[@fearrua8150]

My only issue with this was that I wish that the chain count was matched or at least some of the gaps in the smaller one was filled. I would imagine the higher the chain count between the outside to the pole would significantly reduce spit outs resulting in an even more skill based putting experience

[@parplusfour]

I feel like the new basket's cage should be slightly angled to help catch those falls a little better. I'd also like to see it with more chains and different chain designs to find the most optimal. I personally think that putting needs to be harder for pros, whether that's making smaller baskets or widening C1.

[@itsbrandonbush]

I don’t think they need to widen C1 they just need to make jump putting unavailable from C2. That way C1 and C2 stats are still there and unchanged because percentages made from either is cool to see.

[@parplusfour]

@@itsbrandonbush Your option is definitely easier to implement!

[@carlturgeon9224]

Don't forget about the super class approved discs like the Condor or Zephyr 😉

[@pbgamble]

This was my thought too, there's wider diameter mids n fairways too, like Stalkers and Cobras.

[@atom28z]

great video, but I feel you came to the wrong conclusion. Just watching those spit/chain outs was frustrating. I've been playing for about 13 years now and most players (new and old) already struggle and get most frustrated with putting. I don't think we need to make it any harder, and dislike the idea of bringing more luck into the sport (where two identical putts could receive different outcomes). Nowhere does it say we need to stick to ball golf tradition and make the hole two projectiles wide. The target is the perfect size right now IMO.

[@alexjuckett9987]

I’d wouldn’t mind seeing it put into play at some courses, and definitely being featured on the pro tour. But, just for the every day player, I think the average person just starting out, missing that many puts may detour them from playing. Having the bigger basket allows a great learning and development…but if the pros want it, let them have it. I’d drive to a course that has them, just to see a “true” score. Hehe

[@dylanteets921]

Making the chain width smaller demands more skill. Reducing basket size requires more "luck" as many have said in the comments. At the end of the day we want to grow the sport and I think many new or recreational throwers will feel disencouraged in their performance due to the spit out factor. Resulting in some to walk away from the sport possibly. Changes could be made. But not to this extent in my opinion. Great content as always Jesse!

[@Zielmann633]

Mach 3 baskets are still pretty common on courses that have been around a while, and those don't really discourage new/rec players at all. I don't think these types of players actually care all that much about their scores or an unlucky spit out here and there. Also, I could easily see something like this being a "Pro Tour" basket, where most existing courses would keep their current baskets. Similar to how a bowling alley might use lightweight pins and friendly oil patterns when not being used for league or tournament play.

[@discgolfdetails9889]

@@Zielmann633 I've been playing since the 80's. Putting has gotten much easier with these Mach X baskets and all these chains. I kind of like Prodigy baskets with the webbing inside. I wonder if you could just shrink that down 15% or whatever and get a desired result for the professionals of course. Your local park baskets for ams is fine and won't change. They are not going to shell out 5 grand just to put in new baskets.

[@ptomeo]

Great video, and concept! I think the only thing that should be adjusted is removing a link or two of the out chains so they aren't so saggy. Id love to see a them treat this as a Pro basket vs amateur basket, for tournament play.

[@lodgladiesonlydiscgolf1666]

The chains could be longer, actually protruding through the cage and place a weight at the gathering point. The weights could actually be easily changed to accommodate professional tournaments and easily switched back afterwards .

[@scottswearinger8186]

I think a smaller chain target over a larger/regular basket size would be the best combo. I putt on the junior size black hole (approx 25% smaller than current baskets), but I made a larger basket. Tougher to hit chains, but it catches well when you do.

[@discgolfdetails9889]

That is excellent. Plus it would still fit larger discs like a Condor. I think the tray has to still be a bit bigger but the chain area can shrink.

[@schmikey8]

I haven’t made the trek to Another Round yet. Tomorrow could be the day!

[@littlejerry8902]

Something underrated about baskets like a Mach X and yours here is the chain sag at the bottom, it's more suited for this newer style of putt a lot of players have going hard, straight, and flat at the center of the chains. Baskets where the chain connect at the bottom without looping up like the Discatcher are made for old school hyzer drop in putts like Climo, GG, or Barsby. When you putt straight at a Discatcher, the tension at the bottom of the chains fights the disc and wants to spit it out, kind of like a rubber band. Having chains sag at the bottom like a Mach X or your basket here relieves the tension that causes discs to spit out when you hit dead center and allows the chains to catch more like a net. If you don't believe me just try it, I'm an engineer but it's hard to explain in a KZbin comment.

[@perlDreamer]

The key to a good scientific experiment is to control the variables. If you'd tried putting on the original basket (unmodified) versus the modified basket, that would be well controlled. Your experiment is different though. The MVP Black Hole is a well designed basket with 24 chains in two layers, versus the other basket with a chain configuration I've never even seen before. There were too many spit-throughs on the old basket to make me think that would happen regardless of the basket width and chain spread. Criticism aside, this is a good video and I love seeing you take on the topic.

[@TrashPandaDiscGolf]

Great feedback - thanks Colin!

[@discgolfdetails9889]

I agree they certainly didn't build one from scratch and prototype a dozen. That would be ideal to get the best configuration.

[@joshuabrown1731]

Changing the radius of the basket by the difference in diameter of the discs makes the center of the smaller disc have to be closer to the pole in order to theoretically drop into the smaller cage, so it should be harder than using a frisbee on an original/current size basket. If the radius of the basket were changed by the difference in radii of the discs, then centers of the discs and therefore required accuracy for successful putts should be similar in both cases. It would still be harder though, as the smaller diameters of the disc and chain ring would meet at slightly more of a glancing angle than the frisbee on the original basket at the same center distance from the pole.

[@calebluvsvids]

I understand why this would be a conversation, but I think it would be a massive tragedy to change the basket now. First, disc golf is taking off in a major way, partly due to some amazing highlight clips that make their way into the mainstream. Any time a sport changes rules to increase difficulty, you lose some of those highlights and in turn some interest. Secondly, the sport is currently building an impressive resume of records, including course records, championships, putting percentages, and so many other things which would have to be either tossed or asterisked with a major change like a basket update. Unnecessary. I think the answer is what DD does with the marksman: make a separate, new competition or category of competition with the new basket, but don't eliminate the old one. If it's really better, everything will gravitate to the new system. I bet it doesn't, though.

[@TrashPandaDiscGolf]

Appreciate the thoughtful feedback Caleb!

[@micah_lee]

This is definitely the future thing and it is good to talk about it now. It may just continue to get harder to change it as the years pass though

[@juane.sotomagic8059]

Looks like you have to hit lower on the chains and also take up some of the slack on the chains towards the bottoms. The angle at which the chains come down can be tighter to open up more if the bottom tray.

[@chefdave28]

I remember even years ago Paul making the comment about the baskets. This now pushes the conversation even more to putting and less so on sheer distance. It also would change the design focus of courses more to the greens rather than to length of the hole. Thanks for sharing!

[@davetrost]

You need more math, Jesse! Those original pole holes were designed to have a 2 frisbee width AND a 2 frisbee HEIGHT (almost … I measured). Anyway the height of the basket still needs to be reduced by 1/3 because that’s how much smaller discs are compared to Frisbees. And I’ll bet this change helps more putts drop into the tray when they hit clean in the chains. Great video, nice welding work, and thanks for Including Brody’s comment about playing basketball into hula hoop baskets. Lol!

[@donmorgan4735]

THIS is the long-awaited separator between am and pro! No need to change course length/par. LOVE IT!

[@BodanzaDiscGolf]

Super interesting! I think this would be a good change overall, because over time with more parity in the field there will have to be either a bigger circle/ managed greens or a change in the basket to add some putting difficulty! Would love to try out that basket!

[@wisherb1]

You have to remember disc are also more dense than a Frisbee so you would need to add more chain to catch them better.

[@natecalhoun3605]

Aside from this debate... Yall should totally make a video with this dude making the cheapest or easiest basket to make out of used/found materials. I know tons of kids or even adults have tried(to varying levels of success) to create makeshift baskets. Great job trash panda!

[@Real_Nutella]

You can also see side by side that the top rim of the basket is pointed outwards making it even easier to get in. I think with the correct width at the bottom you can put the top rim out at an angle to make it a completely correct basket

[@renn6868]

So stoked to be able to putt on this basket every day Jesse! Thanks for dropping it off in denver man!!!

[@uvaionballer]

I practice on a customized basket at home with a smaller basket AND chains. I simply tied up the chains (I have a single outer set of chains for reference). I think with your modified basket you need to slightly narrow the chains so it does not reject a "good" throw.

[@Bigticket2510]

The focus should be more on if you hit the pole, rather than getting it in the basket. Tighter chains with a larger basket (when I say larger, I mean the same as it is now) kind of makes the most sense to me. It might look different at first but people would get over it.

[@spencerplunkett9920]

I really like what you did- would like to see the smaller basket with a bit thicker chains- absolutely love the idea just like would be so hard to alter all DG baskets around the world- but could be do-able for an entity like the DGPT

[@mech0p]

Yea if we wanted to do this theyd have to completely redesign because you can hit perfect and the disc will be chained out. I think it could work but it would need to be similar to the marksman

[@TheDrakmannen]

I think that there is a happy medium. Ive putted with ultimate frisbees on regular baskets and the amount of center hit spit outs that happen dont seem fair. I wouldnt mind seeing baskets smaller, but I would just rather see dead center hits rewarded more and off center (especially weak side) hits be punished. There are more ways than one to achieve that and a medium between yours and standard might be a good start.

[@diy_disc_golf]

Bring the chains in tighter like the marksman and shrink the height from band to cage and it will catch everything, looked like your outer ring of chains were almost wider than the basket.. love it tho I built a few smaller ones out here to super fun to experiment with. Personally I want to make them all different sizes haha

[@zachwoolard3260]

I think one problem is the bottom of the basket on the original is smaller than the top rim, the modified basket looked to be about the same between the rim and bottom. Also the original design has the rim being wider than the band with the chains. The modified appeared to have a band that’s either the same as or bigger than the rim. I think my problem with it is if it’s being shrunk, it should be to scale.

[@charlee1270]

I like the attempt to remake the standard for a new basket, although there are 2 differences i believe would improve on your design. 1) how high up the basket sits on the pole relative to the top where the chains hang should be shortened( this would also shorten the length of the chains hanging). the depth of attackable chains should be relative to the diameter of the basket. and 2) in golf, the flagpole sits in the middle of the bucket(which still allows the ball to enter the bucket from all sides) and can be removed when putting vs. discgolf where the center pole of the basket cant be removed, so there should be a half inch added to the (newly made)baskets diameter(equating to the size of a disc plus one half inch from pole to inside basket edge) to account for bouncing off the center pole. I hope these ideas help.

[@hendojr3296]

I could see basket diameter changing depending on divisions. Kind of how NBA vs WNBA has different heights, or AM vs Pro sports have different lengths/sizes for their equipment. This would help create a better difference between the 1000 rated local pros and the touring pros!

[@seymourglass26]

And it would make so many courses unplayable for half of the players or be completely untenable financially for most courses. Baskets are already expensive when you're trying to do 18, and there is no standard yet. Also, I don't hate seeing the best players around make C2 putts. Do you hate that?

[@hendojr3296]

@@seymourglass26 lots of pro level courses have short baskets and long baskets... and when you push the sport to be harder, players end up better! And how would that make half of them unplayable? You'd literally just be changing scores, not its playability.

[@donfite9269]

I first played dg in 1979 at Oak Grove Park in Springfield, Missouri. We had to putt very low, barely clearing the basket otherwise our "frisbee" could easily bounce off the chains. I think the pros would need to do the same thing on yours. I'd like to see it.

[@Theaddekalk]

also lighter chains with such a small basket makes it easier to put in disc, but also smaller in height, or liek the gap. BUT as paul said in his pod, there could be a pro basket that was only on the protour they took with them, that would be nice or atleast a good start to begin

[@raidernut24]

Another beautifully produced video. The evolution of the us great and I'm glad I found this channel and have been here for the ride. Yes putting is too easy. I would like to see a wider angle for the basket entry. But I like this idea and maybe chains to be organized in a way to grab for aces or maybe it isn't as bad if the cage let's some discs in?

[@Arrica101]

An ace should be a rare occurrence, not multiple times a tournament. An ace is no longer special if you are stepping up to a shot and thinking their is a reasonable chance of making it

[@coconutjive4359]

I think it is the natural progression of the sport. The "pro" basket could be used just for events or new courses. As the sport of disc golf grows more popular, the standard basket could keep giving the convenience building rounds for all ages. Great vid!

[@dustinsanford6045]

Best bang for your buck welder, on that Forney easyweld!

[@robtrot]

That looks like what needs to happen. the odga should look at this as a model for change going forward.

[@natebell4764]

The black hole had a noticeable angle going up from the base of the basket to the rim. When you compare the top rims diameter to the top bands diameter they seem almost on top of each other. It seems if a middle ground were to be found that top rim of the basket could be played with so its more bowl shaped and less bucket shaped. ( not to the degree that it is a bowl shape just adjusting in that direction.) Chain weight and design could also be metaled with.

[@discgolfdetails9889]

Putting is too easy and yes the baskets should change. Not for every course of course! Not yet until the current ones rust and become unusable. I would like to see a company come out with professional baskets for the DGPT and professionals first. Obviously extensive testing and prototyping would need to be done to make sure they still catch well on good putts. I don't even mind putting on Marksmans myself. I played in the Marksman putting league before and they are OK. But I think you are on the right track, something bigger then a Marksman but smaller then current.

[@Sylverflame]

That's about the size of a MVP Macro basket's cage. It's a doable putt, but you'd want to come in a little nose up to get the disc to pop vertical than fall. I'd be curious to see if different chain layouts (net vs curtain, say) affects the putts.

[@TheRealSquirre1]

I feel like the biggest issue of trying to compare a basket to a golf cup is the basic concept of how putting works. In golf other than pin strikes, which do happen but are rare and not really intended, the cup has gravity on its side to because the ball will just drop right in. To me anyway it makes sense for a disc golf basket to be larger given that hitting the chains is intended to stop the disc but that naturally wont have the disc drop dead straight down. What would be super fun would just be to throw that new small basket but without the chains or pole at all, just the bottom basket. Massive RIP to ace chances but at least you wouldn't be able to chain out lmao.

[@milespaints]

Exactly! Discs generally are meant to fly flat towards the target, more like an arrow from a bow than a ball rolling on the ground and having gravity drop it in the hole. Remove the chains AND the center pole and you basically have an elevated "hole" and discs are pretty much not going in that "hole" very often. Solution: Tone Poles, like were tried way back in the day. If your disc dings the pole, the putt is good. No chains, no tray, no top band rejections!

[@highrollerdiscs805]

So I have always wanted a band that was slanted. When I saw you slated the top in I was hoping to see the band hit. I believe that was the most important thing redesigned.

[@cside19]

I would love to see this basket go through its paces with some pros and see what they think. I do see what some people say about the pacing of the game getting slower, but at the same time, pros are getting better and better. And courses need to keep up with the skill level to a degree. Some tests with them would be interesting to see.

[@krispendleton4662]

Also, if your inclined jessie, the smaller TP basket could be a GREAT product for the TP brand. Take ALL my money!

[@Mochila03]

My biggest issue with this as a competitive basket is the chain outs due to the smaller catching area. I'd rather see pros challenged with the same size basket but the narrower chain width of a Marksman Lite. That way you're still challenging the left to right accuracy without unnecessarily hurting good putts that unluckily bounce out with the narrower basket.

[@trungnguyen-ji8hw]

I think the reason why they don't change the basket is because they still have a ton of disc that are approve to play dating back all the way from 1964. plus their are a few modern disc that are bigger in width than a regular disc golf disc.

[@gbiscuits]

the problem for small basket is the velocity that you typically putt at, its hard to get it to drop straight down and not get spit out.

[@crunchy_dg1191]

Give me the build quality of the other [especially chains, i appreciate you working with what you had] and I'm ALL for a smaller target. The most boring part of disc golf live is when pros are all 15 feet away and we get to watch them all tap in for 5 minutes. Let's get some more drama out there! Fyi, I'm 940 rated, but that's not because of my 875 rated putting 🤣

[@discgolfdetails9889]

Agreed, I can't watch live because 5 minutes of tap ins from 20 feet on in. Kind of really 30 feet almost now. Guys seem to never miss.

[@DerekInTheFront]

Wonder if there was some way to may the chain part of the basket a little more “grippy”. Not overly grabby so you just have to hit the chain to make it, but enough to balance the fact that more chain outs will happen bc of the smaller basket

[@Rustoleum9542]

I personally would like to see the PDGA use a smaller diameter chain setup with a basket size larger than this. That would mean shots/putts would have to be more precise but less luck involved in the actual catching of the disc

[@DannyStillOutside]

I think the first time y’all resized it was ideal. The basket isn’t huge anymore but also not two small where there’s gonna be a ton of spit outs from outer circle. Aces for sure will be way harder considering the speed the disc will be coming to the hole at. And just a couple chains added to slow down the spin more so that they have more of a chance to fall in the basket than to spit out.

[@Willidude]

This is an interesting discussion. I do think that if these baskets were made regulation then the traditional frisbees would have to be made illegal to use. As of currently they are still legal and I see a lot of families who only play here and there still use traditional frisbees on the courses around me.

[@BergNerd]

Great video. Love the concept w/ this sized basket.

[@jamlab13]

What about the distance between the band and the rim of the basket - was vertical distance x2 frisbees too? Wouldn't the basket need to be raised closer to the band?

[@Zaekyr]

I myself feel the idea of the basket design was to hit the target and the target was meant to be the pole. The chains and basket were only to make retrieving the disc easier. Ideally, the basket should stay the same size, but the chains should only extend from the post the width of the largest legal diameter (30 cm) of a disc. In other words, the chains should not be so wide, but the basket can be since hitting the target is really about hitting the post.

[@wheres_waldo_lookalike]

Would attaching loose chains to the outside basket bowl encourage the disc to snag or spit out?

[@ianfgranger]

Did you consider a shorter distance between the top of the cage and the bottom of the chain rack?

[@RAHZirk]

MVP Macro basket is that size. Shoulda just bought one of those, lol.

[@dasbuj]

I think sort of philosophically based on the comparison between disc golf and traditional stick golf, this makes total sense. However, this begs the question, do we want disc golf to always be paralleled by stick golf? I think for me the answer is no, we don't need to define disc golf in terms of stick golf. It isn't the same sport and the inherent differences between the two should be embraced rather than fixed or solved. A really fun thought experiment though, and it really shows how much harder putting could (or maybe to some should) be in our sport! Putting in stick golf is so difficult, anything beyond 5 feet becomes a challenge that could not go in if you aren't careful. But pros in our sport are putting up 100% C1 putting for entire tournaments, and perhaps highers up would want to see those numbers go down instead of up. Again at the end of the day, I think we should hold ourselves to comparison with stick golf, and who doesn't love to see clutch putts from distance barely hang in the chains!

[@bestbladerevah]

I think this is a good discussion to have at Disc Golf's foundation, especially since a lot of the people that play, play it recreationally. but the pros want a more challenging game. I personally don't want a more narrow basket because basket shots are amazing and cool cause they almost never happen and they also save a lot of my poor shots. Every community faces this, do we cater to the minute amount of Pros who have the biggest voices but represent a small portion of the field or the Masses of people or have 1 or 2 disc and use the game as an excuse to go out and have fun with family and friends. I can see it being used on a more professional level where they are able to make 60ft putts consistently but i don't think we need to go around to every park in the world and change the baskets to new or even new courses use these styles of baskets, maybe set them up so that they can be changed out if the course is good enough for the pro tour.

[@uniteentierly2773]

Paul has a good point... Proportion is much tighter for golf. It's more fun with general size though. ❤️

[@crusher26638]

I’m for it. They wouldn’t have to change the baskets everywhere. The pro tour could travel with these new smaller standardized baskets. I’m sure they could make them catch a little better than yours. Not to catch shots that are off-line but make sure that ace runs or throw ins are caught as well as they can be. Eventually the top amateur tournaments and top new courses would purchase these baskets. Over time courses will all shift to follow the pros.

[@brendan3081]

I think the modded one needs more, lighter chains. The standard just has so many to help decelerate the disc and i think thats missing on the new one. I also think that if this were implemented in pro play that some courses might need their par looked at and changed

[@Bugkill9]

Imagine listening to people complain about the spitouts now and then making just the basket smaller so you get more spitouts it would just be constant. I think you would need to also lower the basket pole so that the basket is more squared up and it might catch better with less "spitouts". Interesting video though keep up the good work.

[@vaporofdeath37]

I made baskets out of 55-gallon metal drums & they're about that size too... I really like the smaller baskets!!!

[@p3nguin11]

With golf you're mainly aiming left right. Sure there are hills and dips but you aim left right for putts. In disc golf you have to add the up down angle to things and that's what makes it different and requires a bigger basket imo Not to mention that you are usually going to get a bounce from the chains that is another aspect that golf doesn't have to deal with. Pro tours could maybe use the smaller baskets if pros feel like it's too easy but even they miss easy putts in the current baskets sometimes.

[@martinteece8983]

Due to size being reduce I the circle. Wouldn't you need to reduce size of chains grade, and tech the length of them to be exact

[@derrickjohnson6162]

I like the concept and even the fact that you used midranges, but that isn’t the widest diameter according to PDGA rules. Although most discs are that size, Condors and Jaguars still exist and are PDGA legal.

[@nickstroke]

When you fellas are done with your month of testing, can we please borrow it in CA (La Mirada perhaps?) for a month too?

[@bigwooly8014]

For all the decades disc golf has been a sport it has been on the current size basket. At this point changing the basket size would be nothing more than a money grab for basket companies and a giant cost for all courses. How many places are just lucky to have a course? But because of a tiny minority of folks all of a sudden one of the largest costs of a course would need to be repurchased to stay current. Isn't a standard frisbee still a legal disc to use? Anyone who thinks the baskets are to small can just go back to throwing a frisbee. Problem solved, and the rest of the sport wouldn't be out thousands per course cause new folks want things to change. What is the largest pdga legal disc? That is what the basket should be modeld after. Weather is used often or not. If disc golf wants to mirror golf so bad let's start with an official on each card first. At least the top 5 cards. It's amazing and wonderful how many new players have come into the sport in the last few years. It's slightly irritating when people new to the sport want to change what it is. If it means that much to you start a new disc association that only plays with marksman baskets, on perfectly wooded courses, with no man made obstacles, and zero obstructions in the circle, with no artificial OB and call it "the better than disc golf cause we're the experts who've been playing for less than 5 years and we know better than the founders of the sport association". That last part is a little over the top but makes the point.

[@calebdyer6332]

This would definitely make putting harder but also would seem to make it “luckier” because of all the chain outs. Maybe a happy medium could be achieved

[@Arrica101]

If you are getting chain outs it means you aren't accurate enough, it's not a luck thing, it's a skill thing

[@adambaldwin3911]

I see where you're coming from about luckier, but I also think skill/technique; watching Jesse's putts, it seemed that the clean hit required more nose-down angle. So, perhaps the touch involves is higher. I'd also expect any manufacturer would probably add a third row of chains.

[@easy3discgolf144]

The first and easiest step is eliminate the jump and step putt. Many of them are questionable anyway. You have some players intentionally not using markers when at circle's edge because they can turn a 33' putt into a 29-30' putt.

[@paintballnut0812]

I feel for beginners/ public courses, the standard basket should remain. But for tournament rounds/ pdga sanctioned events the smaller one should be used. As a new player (just started month two) my already low putts made, would discourage me and others if the basket was made even harder for us new folks. But for tournaments/ more experienced players I believe it would add a whole new challenge that would be well received.

[@johnmarttila1081]

I don't think the ball golf comparison is useful because because balls are rolling on the ground and they only need to drop, unless they are going way too fast, but disks are flying through the air, so they need to be stopped by the chains and then drop into the bucket. Also, the spirit of disc golf should be more about hitting the target than dropping in the bucket, so, if anything, I'd use the smaller chains with the current bucket size. It may also be worth keeping in mind that have having that much more difficulty sinking a shot would detract a lot from how much fun it is to watch pros throw in from great distances and it could prove to be difficult enough for amateurs that they get more easily frustrated and have less fun playing, which would be bad for the sport overall. Last, it's just never gonna happen because there's such a huge investment around the world with the current standard of baskets. If you changed that we would have a muddled field of regulation baskets and big baskets, and I think it would make the sport look ridiculous.

[@dyounger3021]

Kinda looks like the top of the basket to the band is also two frisbee tall? Possibly shorten the height down two disc not frisbees. Has to be a metal or another material out there we could use make the inside pole smaller as well.

[@baertheblader9402]

What I don’t like is the likelihood that a theoretically perfect putt will bounce off the center pole or spit out. With the current design, you can aim off center expecting that the basket will still catch the disc. A smaller basket asks players to aim smaller, and that is less likely to stay in. In other words, I support the concept of requiring more accuracy in putting, but that can’t come at the expense of reliably catching good putts. Can you keep this project going and solve the spit out or bounce out problem?

[@timquakenbush9416]

A-Tier and above should be using the Marksman baskets it would improve play so much

[@Marissa0823]

What would be your thoughts on Course Edition ChampCaps by PuttConfidently on baskets? Making those super easy (kinda boring) birdie holes a little more challenging. Much more efficient and way less costly than changing out baskets. Forcing putting accuracy with width and height, but all 4 holes at a fair 13” diameter. I’m genuinely curious what you’d think about that idea. I figure if we can elevate baskets, have swinging baskets, put “mozzarella sticks” on baskets or surround them on 3 sides with natural barriers, why not put the challenge directly on the basket?

[@Marissa0823]

Mozzarella sticks *around, not on

[@Theaddekalk]

do one more but try to decrease the height, si there is a smaller gap, would be nice to see what that would effect

[@andyendicott3870]

Personally I'd love to see the rules change along with the basket size. I think your first attempt by cutting it down just a bit in addition to extending Circle 1 to 15 meters would be a great way to keep the game fun for beginners but more difficult for the pro's. I just feel like the different design to a disc needs to be taken into account, not just the size. The extra mass on the rim of the disc means it's going to be even more likely to slide out vs. a frisbee which seems to be more evenly distributed and coming in at a much slower pace.

[@JacobPorterLadder]

Are these Trash Panda mass produced putters you're using ?!?! But yeah, the chains in the modified one need to be a little heavier and doesn't look like it has a second layer

[@TrashPandaDiscGolf]

Not yet! They are from our “This Disc Planted a Tree” collab with AGL 👌

[@martinteece8983]

Hiw about raised baskets eg of suspended structures or trees to make putting harder.

[@Nolast12503]

As someone newer who struggles to hit 20ft putts consistently I don't find a need for things to be harder. At the very least I would like to see the conversation tabled until after I get my first ace. I've already had many chain out aces on the current bigger baskets and that skinny one can't catch to save its life.

[@RaiderWarpath]

Why not both? Make two legal classifications of baskets. Course designers can alternate as they feel to add new flavor to a hole. Precision basket to force smaller landing zones. Leave the legacy basket when you want big puts or ace runs, or simply to make up for shenanigans in the fairway. Lizotte once said "sad part of Disc is that amazing drives aren't rewarded as well as in ball golf because all the pros can drain it from edge of C2"

[@michealdibenedetto6234]

I’m not necessarily against a change, but I do question if the loss in potentially exciting moments would be worth making putting tougher. I fairly certain James Conrad doesn’t throw in at worlds with the smaller basket. And that’s the most iconic moment in disc golf.

[@imdadirtydan]

Outside of all the logistical reasons it’s a bad idea, it’s kind of silly to me that we think we need to adhere to the standard of a normal golf hole. The big difference people don’t realize I think is that golf holes are on the ground, and the golf ball can be going at the absolute minimum speed, whereas in disc golf it’s well above the ground, sometimes elevated even further. To go in most of the time, you have to throw it at a speed so it maintains air long enough to go in, which you don’t have to take into account for golf. Also worth noting the pole is in the middle, so really diameter is cut in half at any point, unless you throw in on the edges, which is risky, as well as shorter still. No need to change the standard, and I genuinely believe the sport would be worse if you did. I don’t find spit outs particularly endearing or engaging.

[@austinmitchell7224]

I think if you are going to modify the diameter of the band and the tray, then you also need to modify the length of the chains to match. The chains are too long on your modified basket and probably contributed to the likelihood of the splash outs and spill overs. I like the idea of matching the size of the target to the size of the object, but as an AM player I feel like consistent putting is already the hardest part of the game.

[@thaatsriight]

To make it really designed for new smaller discs you should have decreased the distance between the top of the cage and the bottom of the band to also only fit two discs end to end in.

[@seymourglass26]

But we're not just the little brother of traditional golf. We don't have to copy everything they do, because we do things they can't. We play in the woods. We also use things like elevated baskets or baskets next to OB or water. If you were a golf groundskeeper and put a hole at the top of an extreme hill or next to the water, you'd get fired after enough players complained about unfair greens. In short, I love the experiment, but our baskets are fine. The game has changed so that course designers get to decide the putting difficulty in a lot of ways that are unique to disc golf. That's cool.

[@drewbailey5231]

I'd love to see the small one with more chains.

[@cosmognome]

I think that the ratio of top diameter to bottom diameter might be a bigger factor here. Looking at the two baskets side by side, it seems to me that you have a very similar top to bottom diameter ratio on the new basket where the original seems to have a much smaller top. That might be why it pushes discs out easier.

[@fernandoacosta8237]

If you've ever played golf you know how ridiculously hard putting can be. Inside the circle is often too easy for the elite, and for the future of the sport this change makes complete sense. (930 rated pdga)