we need to talk about joe alwyn and taylor swift. AGAIN.

ESSENTIAL VIEWING BEFORE THIS VIDEO.....
midnights album reaction:
• Taylor Swift - Midnigh...
so....after 6 years, taylor swift and joe alwyn broke up. let's talk:
• so....after 6 years, t...
midnights album reaction:
• Taylor Swift - Midnigh...
revisiting Midnights after THE breakup of joe alwyn + taylor swift 💔:
• revisiting Midnights a...
you're losing me is a REVEALING portrait of taylor swift & Joe alwyn:
• you're losing me is a ...
here's my joever playlist: open.spotify.c...
well here we are again in the middle of the night ... dancing round the stovetop as we cook the heirloom turkey !!! what do you guys make of these recent shenanigans ??
Don't be a stranger!
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[@theswiftologist]

just a heads up that my twitter which I usually keep on private will be open for 24 hours, so if you want to follow for updates ya better act fast: twitter.com/jesuiszachary ... once the gates are closed they stay closed for MONTHS and I don't accept requests xo

[@reginanewport-so3du]

Yay, I added you!

[@Hermionee-Jean-Granger]

i don't even use twitter but i had a mostly empty acc from long back (for viewing kpop posts and art😭) and logged in for you! commander in chief aha

[@reginanewport-so3du]

@@philjan23 I live near Kansas City and I'm going there tonight for a concert. And I'm absolutely not going to be looking for Taylor. I don't have time anyway. But I'll be wondering because I'm pretty sure she's there right now.

[@HollyHargreaves]

I love your videos so much.

[@carlalussini]

Glitch is exactly about that, YES!

[@elisabethmeyer9125]

Mastermind makes sense to me in the context that it’s a rebuttal of invisible string, she thought it was fate originally and then realized it was something she willed to happen. It was not fate or magic and that realization made it easier for her to let go of it.

[@Dani-lc9hq]

Great point!

[@nikolinamaksimovic925]

I can also see Mastermind as a song dedicated to fans, not necessarily to Joe or any partner, although it works nicely in comparison to invisible string, I do agree...:) it's just been a confusing one since the album came out lol

[@maciedixon3983]

Ooh

[@maeve-sv6wd]

I loveeee this take

[@sharikvashny8786]

She let go because she is unable to live without public adoration. Joe doesn't need that, but Taylor can't live without it.Taylor also cannot live without making enormous amounts of money. Joe is not as monetary focused or needy of public adoration.

[@islandrebelmakeup4653]

Lover is such an anxious album. So many of the songs she wrote about Joe felt like she thought he could be gone any moment, without warning.

[@bethanylewis7400]

Yah right, I noticed the same

[@angelamarie4137]

Jack is essentially Lady Whistledown right now and I'm here for it. ☕️

[@wa11ie]

say what you want about jack antonoff but he‘s keeping us on our toes (no pun intended)

[@Random-hahaha]

I love this comment 😭😭

[@theswiftologist]

crying at this

[@Lotus1111]

Love it 🍵 🫖

[@nilasds]

YAAAAAASSS

[@sonjabarfuss]

I just remembered that "Lover" was originally going to be called "Daylight" so "Midnights" being the breakup album for that relationship makes even more sense now

[@HelloBombshell21]

This this this this

[@tayluvofficial]

Holy crap. I always thought Lover was just her being in total love with Joe and living the best time of her life!

[@HelloBombshell21]

@@tayluvofficial Go listen to the lyrics

[@tayluvofficial]

@@HelloBombshell21 Nah but it sounds a very happy and upbeat album. It's just like she let go of all the seriousness and embraced her true self and happiness. I don't know how it's a sad album?

[@HelloBombshell21]

@@tayluvofficial Did you just not read what I said? Comprehension is 0/10, go pick up a book.

[@karolinastepien3291]

The ping-ponging between love and breakup songs makes absolute sense when you think about the lead up to a breakup...you decide to break up and then you kinda grieve the good moments by putting on rose-coloured glasses and idealizing the crap out of your mid relationship. You have these moments of "I love thrm, I'll stick it out" and "this is over, I'm out"

[@danielapardo9776]

"Mid relationship" I took that personally 😂😂.

[@danielapardo9776]

But it does make sense. For midnights at leaste, the "love" songs in Midgnights came from a place of grieve.

[@mariokarter13]

It's truly remarkable how in 15 years of failed relationships Taylor Swift has been in the wrong exactly once (Back to December).

[@nishthagupta1357]

Ikr

[@dopamineanddollars6772]

The first time I heard Midnights I thought it was a breakup album and it was/had been confirmed over the last year. Especially a breakup album in which the breakup is long and not clean, which is often what happens in longer relationships.

[@scrumpie]

"Do you think a mentally well person is eating raisins off of a kitchen island" is sending me

[@nishthagupta1357]

Ikr😂😂

[@katamine11]

It’s so oddly accurate 😂

[@alessiaaliagasaenz6831]

After Jack's "You are losing me" date post .... The "Taylor You'll be fine" in Anti-hero, feels like that best friend who reminds you of your worth after a break up. Like I got your back, we are rooting for you(the anti-hero) it will fine. :')

[@rimmka29]

That’s exactly what I thought

[@davisfinney7526]

I also wonder if the "Taylor You'll be fine" is supposed to be from Taylor or Jacks view of his actions; like dismissing her emotions. Dismissing emotions seems similar to this disconnection/lack of effort/apathy talked about in You're Losing Me

[@nishthagupta1357]

Ikr😂😂

[@bkirstie]

I wonder if he asked Taylor if he could post it or if Taylor wanted him to post it

[@bkirstie]

I wonder if he asked Taylor if he could post it or if Taylor wanted him to post it

[@andreaf8404]

labyrinth being about joe after a reconciliation makes so so so much sense, "i thought this plane was going down, how'd you turn it back around?". i always thought it was about her feeling like she may never be able to find love again, but the metaphor with the plane makes so much sense. for him to turn it around he would have to be in it. she is not the plane, her hopes are not the plane, THEIR RELATIONSHIP is the plane. some other lyrics that support this: "It only hurts this much right now Was what I was thinking the whole time Breathe in, breathe through Breathe deep, breathe out" --> she is trying to make it through their rough patch, reminding herself that this can pass "Break up, break free, break through, break down You would break your back to make me break a smile You know how much I hate that everybody just expects me to bounce back Just like that"

[@emogoesboom]

shut up that actually makes so much sense 😭

[@HelloBombshell21]

Until you go through it it doesn’t make sense

[@lkcullen1918]

Her referencing the plane in regards to their relationship also reminds me of Call It What You Want "My baby's *fly like a jet stream, high above the whole scene"*

[@Armaanthecat]

Joe doesn’t deserve the hate he is getting.. he is didn’t turn the plane around.

[@DianaLuis-p6o]

Omg yes! That song always had me a little thrown off as far as the timeline but after a reconciliation makes so much sense.

[@xxtaylorcheerjbhsxx]

I’ve thought about the start of Taylor’s relationship with Joe before. She found him in a period of hiding and being private to heal. Once she found her way out of that, although she recognized that he helped her get through that, Rep launched her back into the scene. I would imagine this caused resentment from Joe… like him wishing things would continue to be “like it was” before Rep. And then there’s the pandemic which kind of brought them back into that bubble. It’s like there were flickers of hope when things were private, but then when she was… shimmering, he couldn’t handle it.

[@xxtaylorcheerjbhsxx]

***wrote this mid listening to your video to realize you said this (but in better words) at the end of the video lol

[@musicfangirl7403]

I totally agree with this which is why I won’t jump on the Joe hate train. He was there for her in a way she needed, when she needed it. I think she was willing to try out a new way of being a public figure for the health of their relationship. She healed and didn’t need to be so private anymore, or she realized she never really wanted to. Joe being shy and quiet and not wanting his career to be eclipsed by her fame is not a bad thing. It doesn’t make him a horrible person and he’s not a bad actor. They might’ve stayed together too long but it clearly just didn’t work anymore.

[@sharikvashny8786]

I also believe that Taylor is unable accept Joe as being a proficient song writer. Her disrespect of him after their breakup irritates me.

[@xxtaylorcheerjbhsxx]

@@musicfangirl7403 Which why it makes it so difficult, I believe. Right now, there’s valid hurt/pain (as with many relationships ending), but they’re both good people who want different things. It wasn’t meant to be. Finding strength to recognize that and walk away is admirable.

[@xxtaylorcheerjbhsxx]

@@sharikvashny8786 Ehhh, I find this kind of normal in most breakups. There’s stages of letting go, but I think ultimately she’ll send his babies presents down the road.

[@carolinemcgovern4488]

Zac: If you're mentally well, are you eating raisins? Me, eating raisins a minute ago: I feel attacked by the swiftologist.

[@alina5110]

I think if you didnt specifically eat them off of a kitchen countertop, you‘re fine 😂

[@danielapardo9776]

​@@alina5110 yeah wth 😅 it really seems the relationship was going south.

[@aaliyahfoster2705]

Headlines tomorrow: "SunMaid sales suddenly skyrocket after seeing superstar Swift's snack!"

[@elizabethskywalker0621]

I just finished a box of raisons

[@ongogablogian845]

Bought raisins yesterday and can confirm I am not well this week. 😂

[@TheGrandOFF]

Also, Cruel Summer. The beginning of their relationship. The guy there is portrayed as cold, blue, devilish, bad boy, cruel. It always clashed for me with the portrait of him she was painting with her best colors. Her first instincts were so clear.

[@busratz]

This comment.

[@rosanaconta3416]

@@busratzbetter than revenge and bad blood

[@gildanonofyabiznez6430]

​@rosanaconta3416 what?

[@HelloBombshell21]

He really said “killing me slow” lol She also painted him this way in “Ready For It?” killer, haunting women, ghost, thief, young, robber, etc.

[@MiniMeags]

He hid her so bad and the photos of them out together she looks o unhappy and now with Travis she’s absolutely glowing and my heart feels so warm when I look at them

[@juliapachecoguedes]

lavender haze always troubled me. as someone who is very melancholic, i always expect my partner to ask me what's wrong and yes actually read into it, help me figure it out. "you don't ever say too much" was definetely not a compliment to joe!

[@elizzybec]

yup. Also the line after that "you don't really read too much/into my melancholia" got me thinking, what are you saying Taylor? That he ignores when you're depressed? Not a good trait to me. She's being dismissive of herself to make his dismissiveness seem normal. It's not.

[@juliapachecoguedes]

@@elizzybec exactly!!!!! same thing she did with the idea of getting married. acting like she didn’t really care about it when in reality he just hadn’t asked.

[@imawakemymindisalive13]

me too, i always saw it as wanting to stay in the delusion that your partner loves you when really you know they’re gonna leave

[@macreepenny2426]

I agree I never agreed with the readings of lavender haze as like a love song or a celebration of the lavender haze, it’s definitely a read on Joe

[@aaliyahfoster2705]

The way Lavender Haze is my weightlifting motivation song is so awkward reading this omg. 💪🏽💀

[@katelynnrice4983]

Also gotta say I love jack. He seems like he really cares about Taylor and not just about the music they create together. He’s definitely like a brother to her and saw what she was going through with Joe. He was/is definitely a good support friend for her

[@Kertgaferg]

I still maintain that there's more to Champagne Problems than has been said and that was a year earlier. Taylor's learned to be a sly dog with how she answers things publicly but her songs have always been very personal.

[@leannewalker1422]

“She’s f*cked in the head… “ I agree with you!! I surmise that she was being somewhat autobiographical with Champagne Problems.

[@afiefswift5403]

But Joe get credited in the song.

[@TheGrandOFF]

I’m thinking about Champagne Problems as a sad song about taking her power back. She does that frequently. You don’t want to commit to me? I’m going to write a scathing song about rejecting a proposal. To your piano melody. She gave so many signs…

[@anchorofthenightsky]

@@afiefswift5403he got credited in exile too…some swifties including me think that the lines in exile were some things he had said in a fight so she credited him to be petty. i still don’t know though

[@clarem8784]

I've been discrediting the timeline because he was credited on the songs... But the idea that he was credited because words he said in fights were used is brilliant. It is kind of petty, but it's also technically correct, right? 😂 And if he ever asked she could say it was to say he helped and wasn't about him...

[@victoriacisneros17]

Jack wakes up and chooses chaos. Constantly. Here for it.

[@andrewt35]

There is a thing about Midnights that, as she said, revisits past parts of her life. However, there is something in every single song (minus Vigilante Shit) about Joe that is unflattering that can be extrapolated. It is almost as if, as she finished recording Fearless and Red, and started recording 1989 and Speak Now, she started to relate what was not so good about Joe to some past relationships.

[@richmaxmchalliwchester1984]

Exactly. I think while she was still unsure if it´s over she compared him to her ex-boyfriends and Midnights songs are result of that. They are mostly about Joe with influences of past lovers.

[@christianbosse_]

i felt that while listening. i kinda get a weird vibe about joe and when they broke up, i felt like it was far more nuanced and most likely actually happened far before we knew.

[@Sleepflowrr]

No, Vigilante shit is about the guy who sold Taylor's albums, about his divorce and how his ex-wife was behaving while Taylor was comparing her own behavior with his ex-wife. There is evidence online of how both were dressing and behaving during that time.

[@Sleepflowrr]

Just Question or Could've..Taylor was giving us more info about the past.

[@lkcullen1918]

omg this! If there's a line we don't talk about enough, it's "I trace the evidence, make it make some sense why the wound is still bleeding" from Hits Different. It really felt like she was tracing her past wounds and relationships to figure out why/how the hurt is still affecting her (and her relationships) and how it came to be. (& don't get me started on the ways it relates to "I fight with you in my sleep, *the wound won't close"* from WCS lol)

[@hanna3685]

the people were in shambles, the people needed a light in the darkness and the swiftologist knew what to do

[@nishthagupta1357]

Ikr😭

[@HolyGround777]

As a person who got out of a 8 y/o relationship with a man who was a certified turkey, think selling our TV so he can go on vacation to Costa Rica with a friend levels of turkey, I think Midnights really captures the ups and downs of trying to get out of a relationship were you entered in feeling inferior to the other person. I personally fluctuated between lucid and articulate moments when I thought ‘that’s it I’m leaving’ to doubling down on my sunken cost and hanging on for dear life, it makes it hard to know what you actually want. Thank God it is over now, it was a very lonely and demoralizing experience not ranking in the top five of someone who you consider number one.✨

[@elizzybec]

Going through the same thing after a 5 year relationship of basically me trying to hold the whole thing together. I had a lot invested, and that made me hang on, but it's over now, and I'm trying to cope, but it's hard. I hope you are doing ok.

[@HolyGround777]

@@elizzybec I know exactly what you mean, at a certain point I felt like all the pain I had gone through and all the bad treatment I had put up with had to mean something right? Alas that was just my mind playing tricks on me, that man didn’t respect me and he never did and I knew there was nothing but misery laying a head if I stayed. Happy to report that my self respect has only increased ever since leaving that man and I am doing much better! Walking away is definitely hard but one million times better than the alternative, I’m sending you a hug and wishing you the best!

[@РутаАсадаускайте]

Certified turkey made me laugh but congrats on getting out ✨✨ you deserve better

[@cassiegutenson9633]

This

[@johannaskagert5691]

I feel like many of the comments to this video are quite harsh. Yes we can see through the songs that Taylor was not happy in that relationship at the end. But there's no need making Joe the devil. He is not a bad person just as much as he is not entirely good. Same for Taylor. There are two sides of this story and we don't know what actually happened. I think we sometimes feel like we were there for the events because the songs are so well written and personal and we relate to Taylor as the narrator. But it's art, so it's interpretable and will always be angled from the artists point of view.

[@nancyfancy9825]

THANK YOU.

[@bruj4j4]

Ugh praying for y'all to STOP defending and making excuses for men. Nahh girl... Let us HATE

[@burgundy16]

the fact that she recorded this song 8 days, 8 DAYS BABES, before her 32nd birthday makes so mad and sad at the same time

[@iwilitu6591]

Why are you mad? (When you can be glaad)

[@kellyprang611]

And, Joe was NOT at her birthday party that year. She had a joint party with one of the Haim sisters- I think it was Alana.

[@AudioTech0649]

WHAT😭 that’s so sad

[@imawakemymindisalive13]

it’s supposed to be fun turning 32

[@cc1526]

@@imawakemymindisalive13he made her blue, turning 32 lol

[@ghazalabedi7110]

Thank you for providing us a safe space to hate on the heirloom turkey bestie

[@theswiftologist]

ALWAYS

[@npats550]

"Safe space" and "to hate on", sounds a lot like an oxymoron to me.

[@meaganbastos]

Can someone explain the heirloom turkey saying to me? I’m a grandma

[@LostinTranslation479]

⁠@@meaganbastosZack refers to joe alwyn as the heirloom turkey in his podcast

[@theswiftologist]

its a joke, you bitches really need to lighten the fuck up....@@npats550

[@alwaysreading]

Joe could handle her at her worst but not at her best

[@candacetirado2514]

“Tolerate it” hits so differently now. Soooo not buying that Folklore/Evermore were mostly made up. I mean they obviously weren’t, but she was basically hemorrhaging lyrics in 2020-2021 trying to hold on to that year frozen, stale, pale , turkey

[@HolyGround777]

Candace you are out here cooking that turkey😆

[@npats550]

It was described as "semi fictional", not completely made up in the first place.

[@MermaidCore_]

Frozen, stale, pale… 😂😂

[@candacetirado2514]

@@HolyGround777 🤣

[@candacetirado2514]

@@npats550 no i understand that- i just think the most personal aspects of the albums get coated in a fictional story to keep distance. She always makes sure in her speeches about F&E to emphasize how she created a fantasy world but it seems more like a catharsis/coping world.

[@fluffytalguw5883]

What comes to mind is that High Infidelity lyric where she says there are many different ways to kill the one you love, the slowest way is never loving them enough…and her relationship with Alwyn was a slow burn and she suffered through his indifference about her. The more time goes on i too am realizing how different they are from each other.

[@GremlinsNGangsters]

High Infidelity always seemed to me to be about Calvin Harris. "Put on your headphones", "Put on your records" - him being a DJ April 29th - first time she met Joe, at Gigi's b-day party (right before the MET Gala that year) "You said I was freeloading" - her being credited for 'This Is What You Came For' "Many different ways to kill the one you love" - Calvin not giving her the credit she deserved

[@TaylorTaylor1989]

One thing has always confused me about the songs on the Lover and Reputation albums (Delicate, Cruel Summer, Dress etc). In a lot of the songs she's chasing him and he doesn't seem to care, he's always surrounded by a bunch of girls and she's trying to get his attention. She liked him immediately at first sight (Paper Rings). He was cold towards her. And she tried to get his attention... It is very concerning thing in any relationship… She was emotionally dependent on him and perhaps loved him more...

[@piriltorgut]

So kinda like Tolerate It? 😢

[@HelloBombshell21]

Relatable

[@FreyaFreyaWillow]

It is sad but this seems true

[@Hannah_jo25]

I think a potential addition the timeline playlist is The Alcott which flies under the radar since it’s a The National song. Lyrics like “I had to do something to break into your golden thinking” and the whole second verse where Taylor cuts in with things like “couldn’t it be easy this once” and “everything that’s mine is a land mine” feel very Joever coded. Berninger claims it’s about him and his wife but I feel like aspects of Taylor’s relationship crept into at least her parts of the song.

[@caitiedidit]

I agree, lyrics like “shred my evening gown” are definitely Taylor-penned, it doesn’t sound like The National at all. Maybe she felt like Joe was tearing her down and on some songs she resents it and others she is like maybe I am the problem.

[@Hannah_jo25]

@@caitiediditthat lyric also reminds me of Bejewled. Like she wants to go out in her evening gown and shimmer and he wants to keep her in.

[@hurricanecatrina9548]

“I love this curse on our house” is totally Joever coded , it’s like she knew they kept fighting and that they weren’t that compatible anymore but she STILL wanted to try with him and make it work

[@theswiftologist]

I feel its just renegade in a different font

[@Hannah_jo25]

@@theswiftologist that’s fair. Since The Alcott didn’t come out until April of this year almost 2 years after Renegade I’m curious when it was written and what that could add to the story even though the themes are similar. Thanks for responding!

[@lisard3767]

There’s a major difference between keeping your relationship private and not even claiming your partner of 6 years. Beyoncé and jay z were very private in the beginning but they spoke of each other respectfully. Same with Blake lively and Ryan reynolds (oddly enough) . There was never a sense of pride from Joe . Also I think Jack was ready to fight this man for years now 😂. We all hate watching our best friend be off and on with someone for years. It’s awful .

[@calliea3336]

I’m always so sad for my friends when they break up, but so relieved that I can stop pretending to like their ex for their sake 😂. I would never say “I told you so,” buuuut

[@brubs2556]

Maybe he thought he was doing the right thing by making sure no one thought he was using her to leverage his career. With couples like Beyonce and Jay-Z there isn't really this problem because they're both individually famous. So if Jay-Z brings up Beyonce, no one is gonna say he's just latching onto her fame to promote himself.

[@marieg3787]

So, I haven’t listened to much of Lover outside of Cruel Summer, but I think the bridge to Cruel Summer also shows some early cracks in the relationship. “I don’t wanna keep secrets just to keep you” to me really comes off as Joe wanted to keep their relationship private, and Taylor… to put it simply, did not. She’s got to sparkle and shine. But I will also say, I think the “you’re so much older and wiser” line from tolerate it isn’t necessarily supposed to be super literal, hell the next two lines are “use my best colors for your portrait/lay the table with the fancy shit” - which means roughly “I gave you the best of me’s” - so it’s possible it’s a reference to how mature Taylor could’ve thought Joe was (at least, in the beginning- after all, he gave no f’s about her reputation) and the “waiting by door like I’m just a kid” I think reinforces that she could’ve -felt- immature and like a kid next to someone like Joe.

[@emogoesboom]

how genius of you. I never really paid attention to that I DONT WANNA KEEP SECRETS JUST TO KEEP YOU lyric and damn it hurts😭

[@Venvaneless]

Tolerate it was about a book character, not any specific person.

[@mirandanils5114]

Honestly I'm so relieved to find this channel and see that not everyone feels the need to obsess over her relationships like they are legit your parents. She can date who she wants, it literally doesn't matter we dont know them lmaooo, can it just be about the music and interpretations from what she herself shows? love this content

[@lovebug1116]

This fandom experience is a wild goose chase and I live for it.

[@kiwibird4966]

To me, it's possible "You're Losing Me" was about the same thing as "The Great War", and that's why it was written so early, when she was in the thick of "wondering if it's time" and feeling like it was the end but they made it through that specific time even if secretly the relationship never recovered and they eventually broke up

[@RLC-tr1wn]

same! That's why that song depressed the crap out of me. I used to refer to it as a positive beat and seems healing thing like we survived this mess(like covid pandemic and isolation ) but no oh no ! now I'm thinking is so sad especially when she said ''I vow not to cry anymore, '' hell no girl. You can cry anytime!

[@aarshiyamazumdar9930]

To add to this, the line "how long could we be a sad song?" in YLM is so interesting to me because before YLM, there were literally no "sad" songs written about Joe (that we know of). Even songs like Afterglow, Peace, Labyrinth and Hits Different were bittersweet at best. In contrast, all her post rep "sad" songs were claimed to be "fictional" by Taylor herself. I'm talking Tolerate it, Champagne Problems, Hoax, The 1 etc. These songs in retrospect make so much sense from the angle of the Jaylor/Toe relationship at the time (if YLM is to be believed). I think Taylor was writing these songs by herself to have an outlet for all her repressed emotions about her failing relationship, and claiming that they were fictional bcz she still believed that there was hope to fix it. The aforementioned lyric in YLM most likely alludes to her feeling like she couldn't just keep channeling all her feelings into "fictional" songs since he wouldn't understand them (you say "I don't understand" I say "I know you don't"). I really think Joe didn't know that all those folklore/evermore songs had sprinkles of reality in them, just like we didn't. Even if he guessed, he intentionally ignored it or acted blind to it (My face was grey but you wouldn't admit that we were sick) and that level of indifference to her feelings would surely drive someone as impassioned as Taylor crazy. She also went along with it, getting used to letting the unspoken between them stay as it is. Atleast she did for a while. I think that's why YLM sounds like such an ultimatum because their relationship had been deteriorating for a WHILE and he didn't even acknowledge it. It's a lot of strings snapping, one at a time, which is why it's so complicated since there was no "big event" that tore them apart. For some reason this must've hurt more for Taylor.

[@juditbalogh21]

Also “I’m the problem it’s me at tea time everybody agrees” is also about the heirloom turkey for me from now on

[@katelynnrice4983]

100%

[@valeriavv8158]

But why do they call him the heirloom turkey? Like what does that mean

[@KatieCarpenter2014]

I feel like Joe was a safe and soft spot for her to land when she was at the lowest point in her life and her career. I genuinely think they had a good relationship for some time… but I don’t think they were compatible. Had it not been for the pandemic, I don’t think they would have lasted as many years as they did.

[@musicfangirl7403]

Exactly this. I think if Loverfest had happened as scheduled this would’ve ended much sooner. Maybe it caused more pain but it also prompted Folklore/Evermore and the good times they probably had during that time.

[@KatieCarpenter2014]

@@musicfangirl7403 for sure. It seems like he was good for her at the time, and I think she really tried to make it work, but sometimes people just aren't meant to be.

[@reneesmith983]

He gaslit her into staying in a hobbit castle when all she needed was a summer in Rhode Island. Now I'm new over here but I do not like him.

[@heatherkingston1445]

Oh my gosh, I seriously thought I was the only one who felt this way. I have never felt like Joe matched Taylor's energy, but other fans were gaga over him so I thought maybe they knew something about him that I didn't. He's just so lackluster and Taylor is a multifaceted diamond you can see from a mile away.

[@KatieCarpenter2014]

@@heatherkingston1445 agreed - he's a very subdued person and she lights up a room. But I think that was what she needed at the time, because she was feeling so low and needed to retreat and collect herself. He was what she needed in the moment. Although, TTPD has been announced since I initially made this comment and I think things were probably a lot rockier behind the scenes than anyone really realized. I'm curious to see how my opinion changes once the album is out. lol

[@0min]

As someone who stayed waaaay too long in a relationship before because I thought I really loved that guy (I didn't): I feel seen. People tend to stay in relationship longer than needed if they are somewhat emotionally dependent on their partner. Since Joe was her "savior" during a very hard time in her life, it must have been extra hard. Plus when they met she probably wasn't her "real" self. They were never compatible. I don't blame her, I don't blame him. You can tell it took her quite a while to distance herself from him. Been there, done that. What is really important is that she is happy now.

[@leannewalker1422]

Thank you for your comment, oooft it resonates with me and is relevant to my life now 🫶

[@NicoleMJ1993]

Yes this. I was in a very unhealthy relationship for like 8 years and it was super codependent. And there was a lot of Trauma bonding. It really wasn’t either of our true selves. Sooooo painful when it ended. But slowly getting better.

[@courtneytimmer2013]

I actually think it really tracks that she would write an album with some songs reflecting on past relationships, and songs reflecting on “good” aspects like possibly Sweet Nothing, as the longest relationship of her life is fizzling. People don’t just decide to end a long term, committed relationship easily. There’s tons of reflecting and you may feel awful one week and better (more able to ignore your concerns) the next. It’s a hard decision. Midnights TOTALLY tracks with someone who is in that headspace!

[@junipers_castle]

I just imagine Taylor having a LOT of wine with Jack and rummaging for snacks and the raisins were just...there. Iconic.

[@nishthagupta1357]

Ikr😂

[@KK-pj1us]

The fact that she literally asked him at the beginning of the relationship "are you READY FOR IT?" Like.. No ma'am I guess he wasn't 😭

[@TheGrandOFF]

Tolerate It to me is her saddest track 5. The “older & wiser” line seems like a disguise and echoes the sentiment from Peace about his “moral superiority”. Same as the only other song she mentions “barbed wire” is Invisible String. What is heartbreaking here is that the character in Tolerate It doesn’t leave… just fantasizes about it. Similar to YLM.

[@elizzybec]

"where's that man who threw blankets over my barbed wire" is JOE

[@TheGrandOFF]

vs. in Invisible String he was the one who “wrapped my past mistakes in barbed wire”. Surprisingly also the whole first verse of Paper Rings is flipped: “Now I wake up in the night and watch you breathe” vs. “I wake and watch you breathin’ with your eyes closed”. Familiarity breeds contempt, what can I say.

[@carolejoly4244]

i was so convinced tolerate it was about jake gyllenhal y'all make me doubt lol

[@vilmavanninen6950]

@@carolejoly4244 Well it probably isn't about Joe either way because he's two years YOUNGER than Taylor.

[@alexnicole6806]

That booth photo told us everything we needed to know. In a world of boys, he’s an heirloom turkey

[@richaagrawal1420]

What photo?? Can you tell

[@tay_rizul]

I love that line lolol! “In a world of boys, he’s an heirloom turkey! Can’t stop laughinggg

[@andreap3147]

@@richaagrawal1420 it's a photo of the two of them at a restaurant. Joe took the booth seat while Taylor is on the chair lol

[@philjan23]

girlieeee I almost yelled at the library LoLoLoLoL

[@alexnicole6806]

@@andreap3147 @richaagrawal1420 and the body language is BAD. Taylor didn't get the "I glared at you with storms in my eyes" from out of the blue.

[@PoisonedApathy]

To be completely honest, Jack being startled at Taylor's revelations about the writing of Exhile in The Long Pond Sessions was the first time I thought there was something up. Like Jack simply could not believe he wrote so much of that song, and frankly I do not either. lol Who would have thought he would be our bravest soldier - under Taylor's supervision I'm sure. Truly, her entire output between 2020 and 2023 is turned on its head now. How much more fascinating this woman can get 😅

[@wa11ie]

jack and taylor‘s william bowery bit was honestly so bizzare and uncomfortable, my mom pointed out how she thought aaron looked like he‘d rather be anywhere but there in that moment and she is so right. it was so unserious.

[@CMarie2415]

I think they were heading to a breakup in 2020 and the pandemic kept them together a little longer.

[@emptylikebox]

He did not wrote the lyrics. Geez. It's most likely part of the melodies were from him that she heard or prolly the idea about the song. Stop trashing on the guy's ability.

[@Jes-m6p]

Joe's grandpa was a well-regarded composer.

[@wa11ie]

@@emptylikebox i don‘t think you understand how weird joe alwyn‘s involvement in folklore is. first of all, he used an alias, which is pretty normal and a lot of people do it, taylor did it on tiwychf to make it less obvious that she wrote the song with then boyfriend calvin harris. then taylor and jack do this bizzare bit about who william bowery is on long pond, which joe isn‘t present for dispite it being summer 2020, where nothing is happening and dispite playing piano and living with taylor. but fine, he‘s a private guy. then folklore gets nominated for album of the year and wins. after folklore wins the grammy, a producer by the name of joe alwyn is added to a third of the songs on the album, which is the amount of songs you need to be on to qualify for the grammy. i cannot stress how unheard of and bizzare it is to add a producer after your album won the grammy. why was he credited nowhere else before? there‘s a grace period between nominations going public and the awards happening where you can correct any crediting mistakes that might have happened on belhalf of the academy but taylor didn‘t do that. and instead of using joe‘s established pseudonym, william bowery, she just adds him as joe alwyn. it‘s weird, it always has been. i think it‘s more than valid to question joe‘s level of involvement. and maybe in wb songs, joe did write a melody or suggested a word or two but taylor has been getting on stage and talk about how betty is her teaching men how to apologize.

[@dessieangel1021]

She really does pick very pretentious men. I was just thinking about that when this came out on streaming. Many of the guys that dated her didn’t really think Taylor Swift, the biggest pop star, was cool enough to be with. She was hidden away and it’s like they were ashamed to be with her. That pretentiousness of being better than her. When she’s literally so fucking talented. She needs someone that knows how big of a star she is. That appreciates her. That knows that she is that talented. That is proud to be with her. And so far, Travis seems to be celebrating her

[@ncamara670]

Dating someone just because they are a pop star would be pretty shallow. If that is the main reason, then we are not talking about a relationship. Rather a self-serving, superficial affair. The guys she dated viewed her as a girlfriend. And, as a girlfriend she had her flaws. She may be talented that does not make her a perfect human.

[@josefina1483]

@@ncamara670 thank you!! I love Taylor but everyone always acts like she’s the perfect girlfriend and everyone else is the problem. She has major communication problems in her relationships, she says it herself in her lyrics and doesn’t seem to even want to change that

[@shelleygoodwin6371]

​@ncamara670 you're not even replying to the comment though. Taylor isn't perfect just like the rest of us, but she does seem to have picked men that she viewed as above her and the men seemed to share that view also, and I mean nobody should feel that way or be treated that way in a relationship but it makes it even more ridiculous when it's literally the shining star, our mother and Queen of the music industry Taylor Swift 😅

[@dessieangel1021]

@@ncamara670I’m not saying that she’s perfect. But she’s picked men that have an aura of being too good for her. Almost embarrassed to have been dating her

[@CrystalDuan95]

Comes from her high school days of feeling so uncool that stay w you ..

[@m.p.b.]

You captured all this so well. The longer the relationship, I think, the longer it takes to really decide whether or not there’s much to save. Not to mention the savior complex of the whole thing. Like yes props to him for being there when she needed privacy and someone to be with. I’ve seen so many people defend him endlessly, though, just because of that and like he can’t get any criticism because of it. To me, her holding the song back from the album seems more like she held it back because what if they DID work out? But so many people seem incredulous that she has moved on so fast after being with someone for so long. It’s like saying, no, it’s not that fast. The ending started much longer than when it was announced this year.

[@Sitting_on_a_perch]

Exactly. There’s a grieving and mourning period that happens before long term relationships end. I’ve heard a saying along the lines of ‘women mourn the end of their relationships before the breakup, men mourn the relationship after the breakup’. Which makes her moving on “so quickly” make a lot of sense. Personally I know I mourned my own relationship before pulling the plug on my marriage, I pulled that plug bc I was done and ready to move forward and my ex only then woke up to the fact that our relationship was beyond repair.

[@Virgonc13]

guys if Glitch is about Ratty then "But it's been two thousand one hundred and 90 days of our love blackout // The system's breaking down (the system's breaking down)" is about the Joe relationship failing and when she says "A brief interruption, a slight malfunction // I'd go back to wanting dudes who give nothing" that's actually Joe I'm speechless my life just turned on it's head

[@rachelflora8511]

dude what the fuck. I never realized she says "dudes who give nothing" !!!!!! I always heard "do to giving nothing." Dude wtf. The alarm bells are going off!!! But how does the 2,190 days thing make sense though? I never understood that. Someone mathed it that 2,190 was when they met before the Met Gala or something to the day that Midnights came out. But why would she say "our love is blacking out" if it was still going well. I never got this song, but I love it.

[@Virgonc13]

@@rachelflora8511 2190 is symbolic!! Because the mathematical (not the actual) length of a year is 365 days, and 2190/365 is 6, as they have been together for roughly 6 years. That line means "actually, it's been 6 years now and i think there's a glitch because there are glorious happenstances on someone else's playground (ahem, ratty) and this 6 year love, this system that I'm used to, is actually failing and the relationship is falling apart right now because i really like this other dude and he looks a whole lotta better right now than dudes who give me nothing (ahem, joever)" (Obviously this is just an interpretation there's no objective truth!! Words mean different things to everyone)

[@Virgonc13]

@@saratemp790 maybe! though personally i don't really see how the 6 years could've interrupted ratty and her, but each to their own, that's why lyrics are so fun ahahah

[@rachelflora8511]

@@Virgonc13 this concept is blowing my mind. Much to consider 🤔🤔🤔

[@andreaf8404]

i've listening to hoax lately and now im thinking if thats about this relationship too. in the folklore studio sessions she said that this was about many different things, and at first i believed her, but listening to it now it feels like a more cryptic sister to tolerate it, and to me it has become clear over time that hoax has such a clear and distinct feeling about it, i don't think its fictional at all

[@allijohnson1228]

I think this too!

[@artfolly]

I've always felt like that was about her and Joe

[@musicfangirl7403]

I’ve always thought it was about Joe and her. But just in a way that relationships and complicated and there are always ups and downs.

[@TheGrandOFF]

Especially that she added The One and Hoax as the last 2 tracks on Folklore out of the blue. Aaron talks about that… she explained the album was missing book ends.

[@elizzybec]

the line "your faithless love is the only Hoax I believe in"

[@typical.bellaa]

I think it’s interesting to hear the polar differences in Joe and Taylor and their views on the relationship as well as just personal differences. Taylor, being the superstar she is and has been for 17 years, has always appeared to be very extroverted and bubbly. She’s always been seen in a positive light up until the reputation era. In the rep era, she was hated on and kind of hid in her shell, which is obviously when Joe found her. What he found was barely a fragment of the real Taylor. He found the version of her that didn’t want to be seen because she was so hated, and thinking back to that point in time, I’m seeing it in a new light. Maybe it isn’t all that happy, lovely, gushy stuff that we’ve always seen it as. Joe, like you said, has always shut down conversations about Taylor and everything to do with her before they can even start, whereas Taylor released two whole love-song albums about him. Just thinking about tracks like Gorgeous, CIWYW, Dress, and the song Lover itself gives you a perspective of how Taylor viewed their relationship, whereas Joe’s radio silence signified his dislike of her popularity. She seemed so perfectly in love with all versions of him, but he seemed to like her better in her private eras (reputation, folklore, and evermore).

[@speeeee35]

I think the most important thing to remember about Taylor and joe… and it comes up a lot in Sweet Nothing… is that, for Taylor, joe represented the first person in probably a decade that she could be pretty much certain liked her for who she was, and not because of what she was, which must have been a great feeling at a terrible time (in delicate, which goes over the start of their relationship, she sings “my reputation’s never been worse, so you *must* like me for me”… and that slight air of wonder… where she’s still not 100% sure, shows it’s something she often doubts… understandably so)… He met her when everyone was hating on her and making fun of her and all that. Which, of course she was still Taylor Swift to us, but to her she probably felt like her career was over and that was it. Especially in the first months after she went into hiding. So when he was still willing to start a relationship with her at that time, I think she felt with near certainty that he was dating her because he was into her and not for any gain, and didn’t want to let go of that, or him. I think that belief at first deepened when she went back into the mainstream and he still liked to remain private. That only reinforced her belief that he wasn’t trying to gain anything from her. But I think, after a few years… enough time… went by, that she would know him using her obviously wasn’t the case (even if it HAD started differently) I think she started to feel the exact opposite. Like that he thought he was too cool for her or that he was jealous or something and only liked her when, as you said, they were at home in their own private little world, and she wasn’t Taylor Swift the superstar. Which again, as you said is ridiculous, especially once you get to the point where you’re considering marriage and things like that. Not to mention if someone only likes half of you then they don’t truly like you for who you are because obviously all parts of your make up who you are.

[@AMoniqueOcampo]

What really gets me about the whole Joe/Taylor situation is that I can't believe how low her self-esteem plummeted from it all. From what I can tell, she really wanted to make this work. I do agree that she saw Joe as a savior and why she sunk so much time into it, even wanting to marry him. I hate that Joe didn't give anything in return aside from maybe contributing to a handful of songs and doesn't appreciate the work that goes into something that Taylor is passionate about. It really hurts!

[@EmilyGroceJ]

This also puts into perspective for me the almost absolute silence on social media after Red's re-record release. Like she was posting pretty regularly on Tiktok/Instagram and then all the sudden... Nothing in December. No happy birthday to Evermore like she had Folklore, one post to reign in '22 with a filter (so probably a contractually obligated post) and then nothing again until May. I think in her people pleasing way, she was trying to isolate herself and fit into his private life and found it wasn't working and it wasn't what she wanted. I think there is a reason May 22 was the last time she liked a post from Joe...

[@gouriiiz]

When I first heard you’re losing me. I felt like it was about something that a person was holding onto for their dear life because if this ended what will be? but being so trapped that you can’t wait to open the door and run.

[@nishthagupta1357]

Ikr

[@SierahtheDaring]

I don’t usually click on the famous person relationship breakdown. Im here for the music. But Im so glad I did. Zach’s perspectives on relationships have been really valuable to me. I feel like I’ve learned more about boundaries and connection from you than so many others. All of that contrasted and woven into the music is really inspired me. Appreciate you!!

[@theswiftologist]

so honoured!!

[@katelynnrice4983]

Thank you!! You always take the words right out of my mouth. People love to attack me when I said previously that afterglow is concerning! A few songs on lover definitely hint towards an unhealthy balance in the relationship and tbh even rep does a little bit. You saying the victim savior complex is so right. Since folklore and evermore came out I never fully believed her “this is all made up” story.

[@apml1992]

I never quite get why some people are concerned w the lyrics to afterglow. It shows maturity to be able to say 'hey, it's on me, it's not what I meant but sorry that I hurt you' - being able to fully apologize and take accountability was part of her character growth during the lover era imo

[@sarahandah9045]

My favorite thing about your videos, Zach, is the combination of sass and actual thoughtful analysis. At 16:44 - “because A DIAMOND’S GOTTA SHINE YOU RATS! something I find really interesting to look at in hindsight…” made me laugh out loud

[@nayslayer2563]

I don't understand how a so-called "introverted" "private" person willingly chose acting as a profession. That's the part that makes Joe's weirdness around praising Taylor publicly so particularly strange to me. It isn't as if he's an office worker! EDIT: My point here is not that acting and being introverted and private never align. Rather, I believe that being an actor appearing in large, wide-release movies should have given him a little insight into how to handle the fame side of things. There's a good discussion in the replies (for the most part).

[@dariaivaniuk9858]

With how little work he does he might as well be lmao

[@nayslayer2563]

@@dariaivaniuk9858 Touché! lol

[@Hannah_jo25]

A lot of people who enjoy performing are quite shy/private and feel more confident or bold performing a character rather than as themselves. That makes a lot of sense to me. It just doesn’t make sense to also be dating the biggest pop start in the world without adjusting that expectation.

[@nayslayer2563]

​@@Hannah_jo25 I hear what you're saying. It just never made sense that he was also in a profession in which he knew he would have to deal with the side effects of fame... he was acting in wide-release films, after all... but then also had this hangup around Taylor's fame. I realize that the level of fame of someone like Taylor Swift is pretty unique, but still.

[@sharikvashny8786]

People on the autism spectrum are generally great actors. I'm not saying he is, but think Dan Ackroyd. Don't discount those that do not live for public adoration. I think that Joe was also on guard due to Taylor's controlling nature (i.e., Hiddleston etc).

[@saima.nijhum]

I said it before I will say it again, Taylor loved Joe more than Joe ever loved her.

[@nishthagupta1357]

Yesssssss! He put him on a pedestal & always blamed herself. To hell with him & his "golden thinking"

[@annlynnalison]

Watch out for the Joe defenders 😅

[@saima.nijhum]

Ya let’s do this. There WAS love and there WAS imbalance of the love shared too. Taylor loved more.

[@anushkachoudhury6186]

I think they had an on again off again relationship for a while where they tried to salvage it a few times and it didn't work out.

[@sarahgirl9150]

My take on the Joe hate is, how is it fair to get one perspective of a situation and draw outlandish conclusions about a relationship we weren’t involved in? Breakups happen and that shouldn’t specifically make someone the bad guy. The world isn’t black and white. They probably just wanted different things which, in time, is normal.

[@poindexterorozco]

It's common for songs to be about more than one thing/person, blurring the lines of being literal. Do you think that is ever the case for Taylor's writing?

[@arieeelj]

idk if he’ll reply but he has said yes he thinks this is the case of course at times in some songs! in another video

[@aaliyahfoster2705]

Yes. We've known in Folklore she has said to also be inspired by movies she's watched with Joe like L.A. Confidential and Jane Eyre (Elle Magazine interview). No Body, No Crime I would hope is a result of being inspired, lol, by a source of media she's watched while listening to Haim.

[@davisfinney7526]

He Kind of said that was the case in this video.

[@Sherlocked.Loki-Swift]

It's kinda funny that i never liked Joe and i feel oddly vindicated each time someone hates on him. It always rubbed me the wrong way that Taylor wrote him as some kind of mythic hero good guy and she was some bad woman that was "wasting his honor". It was very concerning. A few songs like that I understand but almost all of them were like that

[@MermaidCore_]

She was gaslit so much, she was gaslighting herself in the end

[@Sherlocked.Loki-Swift]

​​@@MermaidCore_I love that Zach just mentioned the same thing! 😍😉

[@angelamarie4137]

I was never convinced that she and Joe were this epic love story. That narrative felt more like fan fiction. If you really examine their relationship, you can see so many red flags. Some of us saw them from the beginning, and now others are starting to see them. I think she was infatuated with his "man of mystery" aura, and she ended up kissing another frog.

[@drishtibajaj]

the victim savior complex always pisses me off😭

[@Sherlocked.Loki-Swift]

​@@angelamarie4137 100%!! Not going to lie I never liked him because I did like her with Tom Hiddleston so it already rubbed me the wrong way how the Tom stuff ended and because of that I saw all the red flags right away with Joe because i was skeptical lol. Joe was so not supportive of her it made me sick.

[@purplequeen5974]

Maroon is 100% about Joe. It literally says, “looked up the sky and it was maroon”. Cause Taylor thought it was golden like daylight but now she looks back, she sees that it was just a less vibrant shade of red. Also there are different parallels with ‘You’re Losing Me’. Like “You were standin' hollow-eyed in the hallway” and “Now you’re running down the hallway.” Also she literally says “And I chose you” and “And I lost you” in the beginings. Like “Lose something babe, risk something, choose something babe”. Since he does neither of those things, she does both.

[@spameranne]

re Mastermind coming out of the same session as this, Bejeweled, YOYOK, Midnight Rain, Maroon, Dear Reader (!) etc.: it's a pretty dark song, but it feels very high level processing, after the pain and feelings have been worked through a bit, and one can see patterns emerge. "Wind in our sails/ liquor in our cocktails" -- I make us happen, and you don't match the effort I put in. "you knew that I'm a mastermind" -- you knew how much work i was doing to make this work and you just let me bust my butt for you. there's also something kind of bleak in assessing how a situation has been self-directed. it's not just "i did all this (behold my brilliance)," it's also "I DID all this (I am the architect of my own unhappiness).

[@leathehatless]

Thank you for your feedback, I feel that Jack Antonoff gave me clarity. I never understood why the visual for Midnights is so sad, now I see it was an album of indecision. She was holding the lighter (representing Joe) not sure where things were going. She was looking for clarity in the midst of pain. As someone that has also been in a relationship like this, it clicks with me and I understand why it's so hard to end it because you seem to be the problem, no one really understands why you are sad. I'm glad I'm out, and I'm glad Taylor also choose herself and her happiness, even if it paints her in a bad light. Sorry for the TMI

[@РутаАсадаускайте]

Interesting and funny how Taylor is slowly rewriting Joe out of her narrative. She removed Invisible String from the setlist; she rededicated Endgame (and lowkey Labyrinth) to Travis; she tied Cardigan to Matty; she changed the lyrics in Karma; she liked the tweet about Sweet Nothing being a Paul/Linda fanfic (I don't think it is but she clearly wants this idea out there lol); now Tree slams DM for the Joe engagement rumours. What's next, taking away his Grammy 💀💀

[@NewFish07]

my head has been so messed up by a single story I CANT WAIT TO SEE UR OPINION

[@bammmitsrachel]

my guesses for the timeline: 2016: they met and he was a private person, that worked for that time in her life. he "didn't need to save her but ran away with her". she probably put him on a pedestal for that. 2017 - 2019: they were private in the sense of going to their work things alone & avoiding paparazzi. i'm not sure if Afterglow was after a fight or a break period. also Paper Rings & I Think He Knows.....she probably wanted to marry him THEN. 2020: pandemic, back in the bubble. i think at this point, she wanted to go back out there and shimmer once life resumed. he didn't want that. with songs like Champagne Problems, Tolerate It, Peace, Hoax, Evermore, Coney Island....i'm convinced they were "on the rocks". they probably couldn't compromise on a public life and marriage. 2021: because of Jack, we now know that You're Losing Me was written Dec 5th. this leads me to believe they were about to breakup and she was processing the fact that it could be over soon. 2022: Sept (VMA's) there was a video of Taylor running to car with Joe. i wonder if they actually got back together early 2022 and broke up again and she led us to believe it was 2023 so they both had time to process a decent amount of months without each other to make sure. 2023: when we all found out it was over, she used Matty as a distraction so it would'nt hurt as much for both parties. i wonder if she wanted Jack to release that date of You're Losing Me so we know she didn't jump too fast into a relationship with Travis. i noticed a lot of fans made that comment. in Lavender Haze when she says "1950's shit they want from me", I think was her actually gaslighting herself into believing she doesn't need to marry Joe. (i think they broke up or took breaks MULTIPLE times throughout their relationship and Folklore/Evermore was more personal than we thought.)

[@hibiismeal300]

one thing i have always felt from their relationship is that joe has given me the vides that he is a british snob who made her feel like a stupid american. Like jake, she was made to feel that she is not sophisticated and your reference to the cringe comment alludes to that feeling. i could be wrong but those are my thoughts.

[@marym6184]

as someone whos been in a very messy, up and down, beating a dead horse type relationship for the past 6 years, i’ve felt for a long time that some of folklore, evermore and midnights has been about their relationship. many of those songs ring true to what i’ve been through, especially bejeweled, tolerate it, you’re losing me, evermore, renegade

[@caseyw.6550]

Ugh the way SO many men act like Joe. A LOT of men have a deep-seated need to take their woman down just a peg. It's SO heartbreaking. The way they get intimidated and jealous of women shining. Again...ugh.

[@felixtownn]

It's called "negging" I believe

[@jaycee8334]

I just heard the Antihero remix featuring Bleachers (aka Jack A) and the stanza sung by Jack goes as- Sometimes, I feel like everybody is an art bro lately And I just judge them on the hill Too hurt to hang out, talking shit about your famous baby Pierced through the heart of '90s guilt Maybe I'm the problem, it's me.. And it came out one year ago .. this is the remix that says “Taylor you will be fine” .. it was all on the wall .. we just didn’t pay attention. I am so glad that Taylor unlike John Lennon was able to free herself of her Yoko aka Joe. I credit her freedom to the fact that 1) they were not married 2) Taylor was absolutely financially independent and Joe could not manipulate her on that account unlike Yoko. 3) although Joe was able to isolate her from rest of the world he unlike yoko could not isolate Taylor from her art and thus her collaborative friends like Jack. Here i should mention that it is extremely extremely energetically difficult to leave a covert narcissist

[@ayomidedareabel5525]

From the interviews I saw Taylor crediting Joe on folklore it's obvious Jack clearly didn't like joe🤣🤣

[@jaycee8334]

@@saratemp790 John was widely clean after yoko snatched him back from May Pang , and turned him into a house husband. During that period Yoko herself was on drugs while John was mostly clean other than smoking cigarettes.

[@jaycee8334]

@@ayomidedareabel5525 joe also received a belated grammy for his work on folklore. He was on Kelly Clarkson show after that where she congratulated him , and unlike Taylor he took complete credit without even once mentioning Taylor

[@ayomidedareabel5525]

@@jaycee8334 I haven't seen that interview yet. I'm a recent swiftie. I should go and look for it

[@lunawolf6288]

Now Taylor youlll be fine is in the eras tour 😂

[@alliedylanxx]

Thinking about Midnights being a reckoning on staying with Joe or not while the album cover is literally her about to blow out the vintage lighter (Joe collects vintage lighters !!!)

[@gailmontierth9364]

You need to watch Joe’s first movie and interviews. He was joyful. He was exuberant. He was not guarded. He was a complete newbie. Then Taylor picked him up. He didn’t want his career to be guided by her fame. He suddenly had no opportunity to talk to any journalists about his work. EVERYthing was only about Taylor. He wasn’t jealous. He was just steamrolled.

[@Kpup]

This part at 27:18 is so spot on, ESPECIALLY for Taylor (or any super famous person, really - not Joe). It's not particularly easy for her to find somebody who she can date, who gets her, who can be in her world. Joe was uncomfortable with it, but at least they had already done the work and were in it. Like you said, it's a lot easier said than done to figure out if that's something that can be worked through or needs to just end and probably harder for somebody who can't leave the house without being swarmed.

[@tesselate8nowait262]

This was everything I needed. The timeline is still a bit hazy, but the picture is becoming more clear with each revelation. It’s funny…maybe it’s because I’ve stayed in relationships were already dead, and felt that quiet misery, but I was always thinking about Midnights from that perspective. Especially Lavender Haze and Sweet Nothing. Sweet Nothing wouldn’t raise any alarms for Joe, and that’s the problem. He wasn’t seeing her. He was too comfortable coasting. All he wanted from her was nothing. They’re bringing up her history and he doesn’t care…at all. To him she could admit that she was too soft for all of it? NO. Taylor is a fighter, and if he really cared to KNOW her, and heard her say she was too soft, he would have told her that wasn’t true. He would have encouraged her to be herself. Instead he wanted her to be like him, disaffected and beaten down. Hardly inspiring. It’s kind of like Lana’s Video Games. People think it’s a pretty love song. It’s not. Lana wrote that song at a time where she was exhausted from trying to break into the music business, and just gave into a monotonous relationship that was safe, because after all, the world is built for two. It’s so easy and comfy to put his favorite sundress on and watch this uninspired clod play video games and drink beer. That’s the story of bored housewives the whole world over. Sacrificing their inner fire and talent for security, propping up some mediocre man so he feels like a king, hoping that if you make him feel strong enough, he’ll surprise you one day.

[@tesselate8nowait262]

Also in Sweet Nothing: I wrote a poem, you said what a mind, this happens all the time. Low effort, rote compliment tossed out as a conciliatory gesture, instead of engaging with the art on a deeper level🫤

[@Moxanne4ever]

I love the descriptive wording of this post. I’m thinking it would make a great song in itself. I probably won’t get to writing it, but I’d like to try. What do you think the title would be if I did? Half- serious here

[@AllyHalloween]

I was thinking about her NYC speech, and how the "cringe" part reminded me of that line on peace "i talk sh*t with my friends, i'ts like i'm wasting your honor" and how it makes more sense if we think about that line in tolerate it, where she pictures Joe as more mature than her, and herself as a "child". Excelent job, Zack! 🤓

[@hollybeck605]

Renegade is a top tier song for me. Thanks for spinning the meaning on its head. I kept visualizing him singing those words to her. Not the reverse. Love this take.

[@Eric_The_Eccentric]

When I heard Peace for the first time, I felt a certain way. When Midnights came out, some of the songs scratched that certain part of my brain once again. The rest is history. BTW, the lavender haze MV was also so strange to me. She just went poof! in the clouds without her love interest towards the end. 😂

[@Rosie-rx5ry]

I totally agree their relationship was built on this victim /savior complex. I think they were mismatched from the start. But I just think Joe is shy and British. He actually always seemed down to earth to me. The cracks were always there : Dancing with our Hands Tied, New Years Day, Afterglow, False God. It's actually pretty normal she may have been feeling different emotions when she wrote these songs. Maybe she wanted out one day, but then the next wanted to make it work. I think Sweet Nothing is a beautiful love song she wrote with Joe but maybe it's not about their relationship.

[@Lavender_rain7]

Bruh word on the street sweet nothing ain't about Joe.... it's about Paul McCartney and Linda fanfic😂😂😂 Taylor liked a post that says that so that proves everything 🤷🏾

[@hannahj8990]

What a feast this video was, thank you Zack!! Jack’s post literally altered the course of my afternoon so I knew it was only a matter of time before we got the official swiftologist report on it!

[@ashscraps]

I always have had the feeling that her “so much older and wiser” line was very tongue in cheek. As someone who dated someone my age who was a college professor, I felt like he believed he was wiser and therefore, in a sense older (more mature) than I. Not that this is what Taylor meant, but it could be another interpretation that could make that song more about Joe and less fantasy world

[@tararay5697]

I agree with what you said about a kernel of truth being in every folkevermore song. I would LOVE to see a video from you going through the track lists of those albums and hypothesizing on what every song’s kernel is

[@Lime1958]

"i dont know why he would be hesitant to embrace Taylor like that" Its because swifties do nothing but look for easter eggs even when it isnt even there. taylor is Machiavellan, Joe obviously isnt. He frankly stated he didnt want ro feed in the fanfic yall are writing about HIS RELATIONSHIP. As a swiftie i will state again to other swifties. We only know Taylor's side. We would never know Joe's side until he's ready to share it. You all basically say that when Taylor's complimenting Joe he's a pretentious artsy type and Taylor got blinded yet again. And when Taylor shows frustration its yet again Joes fault. LET TAYLOR GROW UP. LET HER BE ACCOUNTABLE. stop making villains in her songs. I will quote her yet again. "No one tells you what to do when a good man hurts you and you hurt him too" two people invested in a serious relationship HURT EACH OTHER. That is normal adult thing. Let Taylor be accountable. Accept her for her flaws. STOP MAKING HER THE VICTIM. We all know shes better than that. Jesus, leave Joe alone. He's out of the swift realm. Give the man his peace.

[@theswiftologist]

No

[@Lime1958]

@@theswiftologist of course. Cause you make money by romanticising about Taylor's exes. Funny how you're more exploitative of Taylor than Joe ever was. swifties like you are the reason Taylor would never find a decent person to stay. The lack of respect for boundaries you all have would drive any decent person insane.

[@theswiftologist]

okay so don't watch it then!@@Lime1958

[@elizzybec]

@@Lime1958 why are you here then, troll?

[@Lime1958]

@@elizzybec cause I actually love the album reviews as a swiftie of other swifties. This is why we swifties get a bad rep, some of us don't know when to draw the line.

[@katlero28]

I stayed in a rebound relationship for a year. It was toxic and smothering, but safe. I knew it was over for months before I finally said/did something about it. And we were long distance! I had a huge amount of individual freedom in between visits. I can’t imagine being in that relationship during the pandemic when there was no where to go or nothing to shake you about how not ok your situation is.

[@hankah5836]

Not Jack spilling the hottest tea. 😅☕🫖

[@BigBoy-cr8eq]

I genuinely aspire to be at your level of emotional awareness. This was such a fascinating 'review' of their relationship and I feel like I've lived the past 6 years all over again lol

[@РутаАсадаускайте]

Taylor seems to be drawn to these pick me men who kinda find Taylor Swift The Star cringe (indie record thats much cooler than mine), and Joe with his walking with his head down, high above the whole scene vibe was exactly that. But its only fun and refreshing at first 😅 At some point it just becomes "dude do you, like, actually care at all".

[@optimalrefundable]

Joe felt embarrassed by Taylor somehow, you can't convince me otherwise.

[@anushkakulkarni112]

he was definitely one of those ppl who said she only writes about exes and is overrated before they started dating

[@philjan23]

29:37: I don't think it's confusing at all! She is a VERY introspective person, and I think the imminence of endind a relationship made her revisit all her past experiences with her updated point of view of here and now. It's not just about random midnights throughout her life, but it's about the ones she had been awake at lately in 2021/2022 as well...

[@paugyg]

I've also been a long subscriber to the theory that Midnights is a break-up album, not just one break-up, though, but many. In a way, it reminds me of the book/film "High Fidelity" (which may have inspired the track "High Infidelity", come to to think about it...) - amidst a relationship crumbling down, a lover ponders on the break-ups that came before it and the reasons why they happened, confronting past lovers and hashing out the issues that led to the relationships' demise. That's why there are so many traces of Taylor's past partners in so many of the songs. This is what triggers the "sleepless nights", in my opinion, the dwelling on past mistakes and experiences and how they relate to the deterioration of her present relationship, the one she'd thought would be forevermore. While I do feel sometimes Taylor draws primarily from one relationship in particular in her songwriting, other times she seems to conflate feelings evoked from different partners and times into a single song - that's why I feel there are so many arguments among fans about whom many songs are about (e.g. Midnight Rain - I know I'm in the minority here but I feel it's about Taylor Lautner, but I can see why others may feel differently) I truly loved your insights into Labyrinth now that we know You're Losing Me was written so far back. Thinking that "I'm falling in love AGAIN" refers to the rekindling of her love for her partner after a break/fight, the lines: "I thought the plane was going down / How'd you turn it right around" make so much sense! She believed the relationship was doomed and then her partner somehow managed to win her back when she was virtually out the door. In this light, it seems the song is about someone getting ready to face the hurt of a break-up only for her to unexpectedly fall in love again with the same person. I do think reading Midnights in this way - a person revisiting past relationships and mistakes when faced with a potential break-up - makes the album so much more cohesive in terms of its storytelling. I feel that's the common thread in all the songs, rather than the idea of "sleepless nights", but that's just my two cents. The only part that doesn't make much sense to me is how they continued writing together if the relationship was so on-again, off-again, like it now appears to be...

[@Ada-fz9ug]

Mastermind is not about Joe, it’s about everyone. It’s mirrorball 2.0 but it can also be interpreted as a love song. I’m only a few minutes in but I’m so glad you made this

[@abbieelliott9850]

In almost all songs in Lover, she mentions the cracks in their relationship. Including maybe ones you wouldn't think. ME!, Lover, Cruel Summer, False God. Makes sense, all relationships have troubling times... but most of the time she is blaming herself, saying she caused these arguments because she essentially feels its too good to be true, that shes this crazy emotional person compared to this cool collected guy, and it is only after she accepts that she is the problem that they are able to find resolution and become closer than ever. She mentions times when maybe he acted like he didn't care, so she called his bluff and it turned out he did care. Then you get into later albums where you can see her start to question, am I the problem, or is he making me think i am? You can really see her go back and forth with herself over the years. Really sad.

[@sstewart907]

“Because a diamond’s gotta shine, you rats!” What a phrase 🤣

[@lins_z2]

Reputation was clearly the true love album for Joe, but even there you could read through the lyrics, between the lines, a fragile relationship that needs to be hidden, a guy that embraced her at her worse, and how the eye of the public could break this that she wanted so bad. In Lover we could see how there was already so much anxiety about losing the relationship, even though she wanted to marry him and stay with him forever, a part of her didn’t want to keep him and the relationship as a secret, hidden from the world. It seems that this was just a pattern that kept repeating through all the years they were together. And the ons and offs that were shown on midnights are like a drug addict coming back to her favorite drug. “For you, I would cross the line, I would waste my time, I would lose my mind” Kind of like either don’t blame me, and other of her songs were either telling us what was happening or they eventually became a self prophecy. I was listening to songs like exile, when she says she gave so many signs… then other songs like tolerate it. I think all albums from Lover to Midnights contain glimpses of what she was feeling. It’s shocking to me that Joe helped with some of those songs, and stayed oblivious to all her pain.

[@jonseymouse]

When you look at Taylor's calculated easter eggs and other things that go into her career, I'm pretty sure she absolutely puts a great deal of thought into which tracks open and close an album.

[@rochelbudman3671]

I felt for a while they were over, back and forth, I felt it through folklore and evermore. I think for public and professional reasons they kept their relationship “going”. Also “the Alcott” gave me that give too and Taylor was a major writer on that one.

[@swapnitan.4186]

Good to see you in Indian attires and enjoying the Bollywood music as well and thank you for being the best Swiftologist ever❤

[@ds06927]

Yes!!!❤

[@tristanneal9552]

Hot take: Sweet Nothing was cowritten by Joe and trying to convey that it's not about Joe is historical revisionism from Ms. Swift.

[@KetlinCarramanhos]

I think (just a theory, not to be taken too seriously. Just how the songs make me feel) that 'Tis The Damn Season and Midnight Rain is about the same person. Someone she rarely thinks about from when she was reeeeeally young, before she became famous but when she goes back to her parents house, or when her fame is too much she thinks about him and the life not lived. But he is a non famous guy from the past.

[@nilay_nur]

I always thought that midnight rain is about the person she mentions in fithteen: "Back then I swore I was gonna marry him someday but I realized some bigger dreams of mine"

[@KetlinCarramanhos]

@@nilay_nur it makes sense too, maybe they could be all about the same guy. Idk. Just a thought. 🥰

[@jayjasperjp]

Taylor and Joe’s breakup reminds me so much of my aunt and her partner’s breakup. Both were Pisces/Sagittarius relationships. Nothing “went wrong” they just slowly drifted apart and when the breakup became official no one could believe it was true

[@clara6621]

Thank you for the constant supply of quality journalism, bestie!!!! ❤❤