We need to talk about Mean Girls...

[@WaitintheWings]

Get in loser, we're playing Bingo tonight on the Patreon: www.patreon.com/witw

[@gwynfromRARE]

day 1000000000000000000000000000000000000 of asking you to cover raggedy ann.... pretty pretty please???

[@emilyholasek63]

We're getting close to Beauty and the Beast's 30th anniversary on Broadway. Is that something you are going to cover this year?

[@grandlordSpencer]

“Nobody hates musicals. They just haven’t found theirs yet.” Is what I’ve been saying for YEARS

[@arex9000]

they need to go back to animated musicals. I would love hadestown to be animated.

[@thematiasmadness7010]

Mines beetle juice

[@take2369]

When I was a teenager I wasn’t really into the live action musicals, I mean grew with the Disney renaissance with their music, but hadn’t really discovered a musical that I like and get immersed in.

[@jecarlin]

Lol this sounds like something a musical theater person would say.

[@nutelasaur9453]

it's so profound, because I too thought that musicals just weren't my jam until I watched Starkid

[@solcarlosofficial]

Why did they change so much the song “stupid with love?” Like the song was so relatable! That’s how we all felt on our first crush and now it felt so lifeless. They said they made it that way to appeal to mainstream audience but this way the og fans of the movie are confused and the musicals fans are mad.

[@michelcomenta]

yes, that version sucks! it worked so well on Broadway with the jokes having time to land, the movie version is so rushed and although i liked the new instrumental (it reminded me of Warblers from Glee), the lyrics lost all their fun

[@codyraystrimple5659]

Likely regardless of Angourie being an excellent actress, she has a significantly smaller vocal range than the original score required. Presumably the same reason Apex Predator was reworked to be Damian and Janis, and why the ‘girl that doesn’t even go there’ ends up singing the finale.

[@12345678abracadabra]

Not that its more mainstream, that it fits the medium - film is different from stage and songs like Stupid with Love and It Roars does not fit the vibe at all. Both those songs sound too Disney.

[@thepinkelephant2520]

I remember I listened to “Stupid with Love” for SO LONG because it felt very relatable and it’s a banger but the new one is so lifeless 😭

[@JackieWarner13]

I liked this version of stupid with love it seemed more dreamy/having a daydream kinda feeling & how she was just feeling that as a vibe in it. It goes well with the visual in my opinion.

[@ByeByeDeadName]

It felt like the movie was embarrassed about the fact it was a musical. Felt like the movie just wanted to be a beat for beat remake of the original with some modern updates and then did the songs out of obligation

[@dannyfain3961]

Felt the same for The Color Purple.

[@FrNSICs]

really? i got the opposite vibe. the choreography was great, at least compared to something like dear even hansen. it wasnt afraid to be a movie adaptation of a musical adaptation of a movie

[@jecarlin]

In this version, Janice and Damien don't really come across as outcasts. The meanness was definitely toned down to cater to what adults think Gen Z sensitivities are.

[@MB-og3dw]

yeah, this phrases it pretty well. by minimizing the racism and homophobia of the students at the school, it kind of does a disservice to all the queer and poc kids watching now. of course removing things like nonsensical asian names is definitely a needed change, but i feel like pretending gen z is chill with everyone who's different doesn't reflect the reality (source- im a zoomer)

[@jecarlin]

Giving Janice and Damien romantic interests felt like box checking more than anything else. We don't know their names or anything about them or their relationships, just that they had a romantic interest. It felt very superficial. There were a lot of characters from the original that could have been developed as well. @@MB-og3dw

[@FinnyThePorg]

Meanwhile, Gen Z grew up on the original

[@ITSMETHESHEEP]

@@MB-og3dwdo you really want a bunch of white (primarily straight) writes to write a bunch of racist homophobic shit?

[@Danbo22987]

@@MB-og3dwso we’re just ignoring that the main point of Janice being an outcast because she was framed as a lesbian who was a predator to her straight friends? That’s a pretty big part of the narrative

[@citan108]

I’m wary of musical movies. I just want pro shots like Hamilton. Sometimes the movie just doesn’t capture the same magic that the stage does.

[@MK-gv1wd]

I really hoped when Hamilton proshot did so well that they'd continue down that line with other ones. But sadly that momentum seemed to have died too.

[@smithmarina970]

Tick tick boom was really good

[@crimsonmaverick8237]

But sometimes you get films like In the Heights. Where certain sequences take advantage of the film medium to create spectacle the stage could never hope to achieve. Case in point: 96,000.

[@catidearight]

I was just about to say, in the heights movie was absolutely phenomenal. When done right, and with the right material, by a crew who wants to honour the fact that it is a musical, they can def be good.

[@kassandraconk1763]

@@MK-gv1wd Not really! Since Hamilton we've got proshots from Come from away, Six, Waitress, Heathers, Everyone's talking about Jamie and Anything Goes (I think that's all, but they might be more)

[@muppetvision]

“nobody hates musicals, they just haven’t found theirs yet” is one of the truest, best statements i’ve ever heard. one of my best friends is the furthest thing from a musical theatre fan, but came to see me as drew in my college’s rock of ages production and adored it because of his love for eighties music. there’s a musical for everyone- they just have to explore !

[@thepinkelephant2520]

So true!! Like there’s Legally Blonde then there’s Chicago or Hamilton! There’s so many AMAZING musicals!!

[@NIGHTGUYRYAN]

this is hilariously inaccurate 😂

[@wonktonk185]

Honestly I think another problem is the fucking budgets of these movies are crazy. Movie musicals used to be so much cheaper so they could make back their budget even with a nicher audience. I can't even guess what some of these movies are even spending that money on.

[@WaitintheWings]

Absolutely!! The biggest lesson should be, don’t spend close to the budget of the first iron man movie for a movie musical 😅

[@crimsonmaverick8237]

The numbers are so unimaginative at times I swear I thought they were being UNDER-funded.

[@feliciarussell2684]

The movie was filmed in my town!! and when I tell you, the craziness of seeing these people around doing everyday stuff lol. a lot of my friends were extras, one of my friends even went to the high school it was filmed at so in a way he went back to high school lol. Another friend of mine sold Renee Rapp a keyboard at the music store he works at. But the peak for me was seeing Tina Fey in my local target and thinking “that woman looks like Tina Fey” but it just was Tina Fey.

[@Jazzyjihyo]

Omgggg that's amazing! How long were they there filming for? Can you add more details that seems seriously cool!

[@licechrispies]

That’s so fetch 🩷

[@thepinkelephant2520]

Yo that is so cool!!

[@feliciarussell2684]

@@Jazzyjihyo I think it was about 2, 3 months? It was pretty short. But it was filmed at a catholic high school some friends of mine went to, that had just closed the previous year. There was a lot locally that was done. Friends of mine were even tasked with making fake art projects and took fake class photos that would go on to “dress up” the classroom sets. And heard from friends of mine that worked as extras, all the main actors were very kind and professional but apparently Angourie and Auli'i were the most socialble and talkative to everyone.

[@Rangi_WildDog]

That reminds me of when Janis and Damian saw Ms. Norbury at Janis’ job in the original movie 😂

[@MsClaudiaDuran]

I love musicals, but I don't think it's right to lie to or mislead audiences. Musical theater is better than that.

[@NIGHTGUYRYAN]

and youre not gonna trick people into liking musicals! 😂lmao, people who dont like them REALLY dont like them.

[@ria2335]

In The Heights was such a sad example. At the time it came out, I and many others didn't feel comfortable going to the cinemas yet. Couldn't risk my at-risk family. West Side Story I feel failed in the international marketing department, at least here I didn't hear ANYTHING about it until it was on its way out

[@tedownfallofusall]

Exactly! I don’t feel like the performance of movies released at that time can be properly judged. Nobody was going out yet. And ITH was released for streaming on the same day, that’s how I watched it 🤷🏼‍♀️

[@sketchycat6223]

The last big successful musicals were probably La La Land & Greatest Showman? And I’d argue it’s because they are very good introductions to the genre

[@Danbo22987]

In the Heights wasn’t even a success on HBO Max so I find it hard to blame Covid for it

[@Danbo22987]

@@sketchycat6223outside of Disney of course. Wonka is doing very well

[@egsauce2911]

@@sketchycat6223Yeah. Not to mention they were original works. They had nothing to compare themselves to; blank slate.

[@codyraystrimple5659]

THANK YOU!! My biggest issue was that there’s absolutely no chance in hell that Regina would ever wear anything made by elf cosmetics.

[@bluestar4408]

She probably wouldn’t put anything less than 80 dollars on her face.

[@MariAntawn]

I think this movie was made more modern but relatable. I notice instantly it was word for word. It felt weird but the way the music captures the emotion of the moments and how the transition were used I loved.

[@eliawillinger4329]

Same i was like regina is rich why is she using elf? Like she’s gonna use products no one else can get not affordable products

[@azv343]

Regina looks more like a cool mom than a popular highschool girl

[@MK-gv1wd]

The really tragic thing is that West Side Story and In The Heights were so good. And of course Tick Tick Boom was incredible (and rekindled my crush on Andrew Garfield) and I hope it did really well for Netflix. I hope the musicals movies continue.....

[@smithmarina970]

I loved tick tick boom❤

[@KristinaHuegelOnStage]

Agreed!!

[@lonellfletcher]

I hate that people lump The Color Purple in with Wonka and Mean Girls because every trailer and every ad not only had shots of people dancing but also featured the music that's actually in the film, with each trailer and each ad showing more and more of the characters actually singing, which Mean Girls and especially Wonka did not do at all.

[@PorgWitch]

When the trailers for Wonka first came out I remember multiple clips of singing and dancing. Not trying to be rude I just remember being suprised people didn’t know Wonka was going to be a musical

[@jumpingjoy20]

There was one (the first one I think) that did not. And the internet being what it is nowadays, I'll just bet that people more likely to like musicals got the one with singing and dancing in their social media feed, and the people who don't care about musicals did not.

[@guppy2816]

The first trailer I saw for it in front of Barbie had absolutely no indication it was a musical

[@phAntasyluvr_04]

In that regard, and I totally agree with you, The Color Purple was a lot less subtle, especially in correlation to obvious big group musical numbers.

[@gurosirevag2882]

I still think they should at least make the movies for people who like musicals, cause NONE of my friends liked this mean girls. Also I’m still convinced that in the heights would have smashed it if released pre pandemic

[@rachelhansen2417]

I feel quite confident that Wicked will break the trend and be a hit because it’s the right kind of musical to be brought to the movies and marketed as such. Cats never belonged anywhere that wasn’t the stage, and Dear Evan Hansen has some kinda creepy aspects that don’t fit with the realism of movies. Many of the other musicals were victims of bad timing, or didn’t have enough draw for one reason or another. But Wicked has the right blend of story and spectacle for the silver screen, and casting is spot on.

[@andieallison6792]

We'll see, I can't remember who is directing but hopefully it's not someone hyper-focused on "realism".

[@rachelhansen2417]

@@andieallison6792 I just looked, and it’s Jon M. Chu, who is known for Crazy Rich Asians and In The Heights. I’m feeling pretty good about this.

[@metarcee2483]

It's good that Tom Hooper isn't anywhere near this. Hopefully everyone has learned their lesson with him.

[@vanessaa7602]

Wicked looks & sounds terrible! I can't wait till it flops. Karma is coming for Ariana 😂

[@PhimbleG-d]

It still hurts me to realise that people don’t get that they’re all the villain… that’s the point. Mean Girl(s). Regina is a villain as much as she’s a victim - they all are.

[@venuslove-i1v]

They need to stop trying to excuse villains for being who they are or doing the things they do.

[@PhimbleG-d]

Someone can be a victim and a villain - that's the nature of human existence, duality is a part of wholeness. No one is able to be "good" all the time. Good is also a matter of perspective. Like you might think that you *know* what is right and what is wrong and that your enforced opinions of those moral perspectives make you a "good person" and I conversely might assume from those actions that you're a judgy, probably controlling person with a fragile ego who needs therapy. Perspectives are personal and enforcing yours doesn't matter to anyone but you.@@venuslove-i1v

[@venuslove-i1v]

@@PhimbleG-d Yeah, but being a victim does not excuse harming other people. This is the problem with most movies today. They are trying to soften the villains, as if what they did is not so bad even if it scars another for life. It leaves the idea that people should not be responsible for their own actions and should always use the victim card to cover up their crimes or wrongdoing. If your actions are directly harming someone else this is when there needs to be a more balanced mind. It's odd to expect others to give you a pass when you are treating others poorly and making others a victim. I'm not going to give a r*pist a pass just because he was abused a a child. He literally harmed someone else and made someone else a victim with him. Yet, stories today will try to normalize this, taking away the purpose and meaning behind why those stories mean something to humanity in the first place.

[@PhimbleG-d]

OMFG are you telling me SOME PEOPLE ARE BAD?! I CANNOT BELIEVE IT. I HAVE NEVER BEEN TREATED BADLY IN MY WHOLE LIFE... I HAD NO IDEA! HOW COULD YOU BURST MY BUBBLE (with your pseudo intellectual fad sociological victim branding)? THIS IS SARCASM ! ! ! TRY TO UNDERSTAND. Just because being a victim is fashionable right now doesn't make you or your cause worthy. Read some philosophy. I'm sorry bad things happen BUT YOU DO BAD THINGS TOO. We're all victims, we're all villains THAT'S HUMANITY. Get a clue - I don't care what you think - you might like to think if I'm arguing I do care but I just like arguing - and you like EVERYONE have done others damage. Intentionally or unintentionally. Wake up, you are a victim and a villain as much as anyone else and if you think you aren't try actually talking to people, no one goes through life easy, everyone suffers, you're not innocent - not least for judging others or pushing false moral narratives. If you ever bother to actually study morality you'll find it's a matter of opinion. Try Nietzsche - you won't like it (or likely understand it) but you need it. Your personal morality like your overblown opinions are your own. Stop pushing them on others. You might find some cluster of people to become your victim echo chamber but all that does is create social divides. You accomplish NOTHING by making yourself "morally superior" to others - other than division. Go live on your little victim island if that's what you SO DESPERATELY want. But don't think art or culture should care about you. Art is about expressing things that can't easily be said at it's best it's complex and whole - not a one-sided BOO HOO POOR ME narrative.@@venuslove-i1v

[@BleedingHeartLove219]

Based off the data you’ve shown, it seems more likely that that people prefer musicals made for the film medium rather than film musical adaptations. La La Land, The Greatest Showman, and Wonka were all written and produced for the screen. I’m not familiar with Rocketman, but I think it’s the only one that doesn’t follow those guidelines. Adapting to another medium can be really difficult, and measuring the success or the popularity between mediums can be even more so. I wonder if the way the success/popularity of a musical is measured is somehow negatively impacting what producers believe will make a successful film adaptation.

[@20maximilian03]

18:32 i think it's important to note that in the heights, dear evan hansen, and west side story all came out mid pandemic when most movies tanked unless they were spiderman. in the heights didn't even get a proper theatrical release in australia because we went into a lockdown. pre pandemic we had the greatest showman which was an absolute smash hit and unapologetically marketed itself as a musical

[@mrluvpups]

Ok do we think that if they re-released In The Heights in the summer, if it would do better?

[@C0DAFIED]

Cady saying the full product name of the Elf product, despite it being blatant product placement, felt very in character to me. like her not knowing how to shorten it felt right.

[@JuniperJadePR]

Thing about Wonka: it came out during a period where there was really no competition. The only thing really playing at my local theater at the time was Aquaman 2 & and buncha smaller productions (seriously did anybody know that The Beekeeper was coming out?)

[@smartie145]

Theaters slowly opening up after COVID in 2021 (plus audiences not quite ready yet to see movies again in public) definitely did not help In the Heights or West Side Story.

[@sophieknowles4876]

I mean, at the end of the day, audiences will quickly figure out what these companies are doing. Like, keep calling these secret musicals 'new twists' and audiences will stop going to see them because they will eventually figure out what's going on. Also, as a musical lover, I hate that companies can't just be honest and say "hey this new movie is a musical!", because that means that I won't go watch these movies because I don't know they are musicals! I didn't know Wonka was a musical, but I do now because of this video. The other two I know only through knowing of their original Broadway productions, but that's not knowledge that everyone will have going into these movies. >_>

[@Ranga3595]

you didnt know Wonka is a musical? the trailer shows scenes that are obvious musical numbers and the original movie was quite musical. Same with Mean Girls that showed some of the musical scenes in the trailer and also has a musical note in the title logo

[@LaurenLaass]

@@Ranga3595if there is no singing in the trailer, I think it’s pretty understandable to not think a movie is a musical. It could just be a grand scene from the movie, not a dance number. I didn’t know Wonka was a musical and I LOVE musicals. I just thought it was another pointless remake.

[@Ranga3595]

@@LaurenLaass it showed big dance numbers, some with characters mouths moving like singing or long notes, and the description mentions its "a mix of music and magic". also, the trailers and marketing show its a prequel to the original

[@NIGHTGUYRYAN]

on the reverse - i would have seen mean girls or wonka if they weren't musicals - but id be pissed if i went out of my way to see a movie and it turned out to be a musical. a musical is a very specific and very polarizing genre - people like to know what they are paying for. that being said, the entire discussion of this movie since the first trailer revolved around it being a musical - it is odd they didnt market it as a musical, but the fans of the broadway show made it very clear that this was not the mean girls for me, lol. (i appreciate the hustle, its just not for me).

[@laurahamilton8868]

I had no idea wonka was a musical until I saw it in theaters. I was definitely surprised when they started singing.

[@boowind4432]

I know I’m going to enjoy this video, but I have to say that The Lightning Thief was based on the book, the movie didn’t really have anything to do with it 😅

[@WaitintheWings]

This is a fair point hahaha it's mainly just a little teaser for what's to come next week :P

[@boowind4432]

@@WaitintheWings oh? 👀

[@joshdukie998]

I agree with most of your thoughts except the music. I don't mind that they rearranged the music to sound more like pop music but in doing so they stripped all the energy out of the songs. They feel very flat and one note now. The songs just aren't memorable enough to strip them down like they are in the movie.

[@___David__]

There's one issue with your analysis of the budgets and the losses of the films. You just accounted for the reported production budget. However, it's widely known in the industry that the actual cost of a film is close to 3 times the value given to the production budget. Marketing alone usually doubles the budget, then you have to add the theatre cuts, the interests for the bank loans, any reshoots that might happen, etc. So, for example, that abomination that was the "Cats" film, cost between 80-100 million when it comes to production budget. Let's say it was 90 million. Now let's be very VERY generous and, instead of tripling it to get the actual cost (270), we just double it. That's 180 million dollars that the film cost to produce. I grossed 75 million. That means that, IF we're VERY VERY generous, "Cats" lost 105 million dollars. But if we're more realistic, though, then it lost close to 200 million dollars. Not 20 million. 200 million. And it also means "Matilda" WAS a flop as well, 'cause it LOST at the very least 15 million dollars. Wonka has turned a profit, HOWEVER, so far it's sitting at a profit of only 125 million. When you apply the correct formula to all these films, yeah, it'll just make the argument even stronger for NOT promoting the films as musicals.

[@MnMsandOreos]

“Nobody hates musicals, they just haven’t found theirs yet” is so true and I’ve also been saying the same thing about history. Everybody likes learning about SOME KIND of history

[@egsauce2911]

I’d disagree with the sentiment that film studios might have it right. The data that needed to also be analyzed to make a concise study is most Disney films. With the exception of recent bombs, Disney’s animated musicals have kept the cultural movie musical alive. How the Broadway musical to film adaptation started falling apart is writers not understanding the core of what made the stage production work. In The Heights added so many things that took context away from the music. Dear Evan Hansen was a creepy nepobaby production that didn’t solidly focus the main story. There are other factors at play here.

[@phabiorules]

I do think that there are other factors at play, but I also think that it’s fair to ignore Disney’s animated films when looking at the data as an outlier. The truth is that general audiences treat animation differently than they do live action. There is still a mentality amongst general audiences that animation is “for kids”, and it’s why most animated projects are either 1. Produced on children’s networks, or 2. An adult comedy series Ala the Simpsons or family guy. While we are now seeing more dramatic animated series dedicated to adults, they usually are adjacent to communities that enjoy anime (invincible appealing to comic fans, and Castlevania appealing to gamers), so it’s not as much of a shift to them. To say that Disney musicals are treated equally to other musicals means to ignore the general audience’s attitudes towards animation, especially Disney. Heck, Disney even tried to make a live action musical with the film “Newsies”, which bombed hard at the box office but did very well when adapted to Broadway. Mary Poppins is probably Disney’s most highly profited musical, but that was also the 60’s when they were still popular. Times have changed amongst general consumers. While there is some truth that the studio executives aren’t entirely right, there is enough evidence to show that they know what they’re doing. In 2007, the film “Sweeney Todd” was heavily advertised as a horror film about a barber that kills people. It generated a decent profit, but shocked audiences when it became widely known it was a musical. While you could argue that it damaged the audiences trust, it at least managed to make a profit, which is better than many other musicals that advertised themselves as such. Like I said, I think you are partially right, but there is a clear pattern from the past 30 years. I disagree with your claim about in the heights, as general audiences didn’t know that, plus a lot of people in the comments are praising the film still. I think Covid is a bigger factor than that, as every film suffered, but you can’t ignore the history and how a majority of musicals not marketed as musicals tend to do better than those marketed as such.

[@egsauce2911]

⁠@@phabiorulesOf course Covid was a factor with In The Heights and other films released around the same time. But cutting out the odd writing choices made for the film adaptation also ignores what has been really swiftly cutting many movies down; word of mouth. With many things getting a straight to streaming ticket at the time, word of mouth hinges on if folks check something out. And ITH had terrible feedback. So did Dear Evan Hansen. And Cats. And West Side Story, which has *always* had so many issues that non-white audiences have historically panned. There are exterior factors. With how recently Encanto songs took over radio play, regardless if people see animation as a “mature” medium or not, Disney films have kept theatrical musicals kicking. That’s the litmus here. The only real difference between the “successful” musicals that did not boast their true genre is that a majority of them are original IP with nothing to compare them to.

[@norahammen1275]

The color purple being an outlier in that last comparison is so sus to me. i was trying to see that yesterday, it having been only a few weeks since it came out, and it was only playing in far away suburbs i can't reach! And I live in a major city. I wonder if it was hurt by coming out on christmas or if the marketing just wasn't there. I definitely saw more ads for wonka and mean girls

[@JuQui228]

It’s crazy that wonka is still out in theaters but I can’t watch The Color Purple anywhere after it was out for two weeks. I also can’t find it in any of my theaters. Oh well I guess I can buy it on Amazon video and just watch it at home. At least I was smart enough to invest in a nice set of speakers for my tv so it won’t be too bad. 😅

[@Tiphany_01]

I miss when the cast of movie musicals went on all the morning talk shows and actually sang. The cast of Rent was all over the place singing live because they could. Do movie musical casts still do this? I remember when live action Beauty and the Beast came out the cast did interviews but no one sang, presumably because Emma Watson wasn’t a strong live vocalist.

[@jpachu16]

Yes the opening numbers of mean girls might be high, but half my theater walked out after the 2nd song. So when ppl who hate musicals learn it’s a musical, they won’t wanna go. And when ppl learn it’s not nearly as good as the original, they also won’t wanna go

[@agrv1999]

THIS. Honestly a musical movie can’t win over both “sides” so easily and this one definitely didn’t. Not marketing it as a musical will make people who don’t like musicals feel scammed and give it bad reviews while toning down the songs so much like they did just make liking it real hard for people who like musicals. They just wanted the money I guess.

[@lonellfletcher]

An asterisk should be put with In the Heights and West Side Story because of people's pandemic hangups.

[@Danbo22987]

In the Heights was on HBO Max and wasn’t even a success there

[@smaugthefiredrake7840]

@@Danbo22987but HBO Max is America only, isn’t it? You definitely can’t access it here at least. So in terms of global numbers which is what they’re looking at, it’s still going to be cinema numbers that matter the most I would think.

[@andieallison6792]

@@Danbo22987 that isn't indicative of anything.

[@justmario]

@@Danbo22987Such a niche platform. If it had been on Disney+ or Netflix, we might have a more representative result.

[@theoneandonlyphineas]

I think for me one of the biggest things with this film is how it felt like there was another breath of life in the musical. They took a musical that ultimately I wasn't a big fan of, and played with its score and made it into a movie that I ultimately really enjoyed. Great to see you upload this on a Wednesday... and you wore pink !

[@cbjgirl23]

as someone whose a bigger fan of the mean girls stage musical, it was kinda disappointing and sad to me to see what odd changes they did with the score for the movie (stupid with love is probably my biggest issue with the changes for me). but this is all just my opinion, i'm so glad other people have different opinions on this that differ from my own

[@dominman5176]

I think there may be a confounding variable here. 6 movies that you mentioned were based on existing people or properties that provided a way to pull in audiences that did not have to rely on the musical aspect (Matilda, Greatest Showman, Rocketman, Wonka, The Color Purple, and Mean Girls). All of these movies are profitable, save for the Color Purple which probably will be by the end of its theatrical run. The movies mentioned that were not based on existing properties or people were almost all not profitable (save for La La Land). I think the dilemma here is that original movie musicals are largely missing the two crowds that would keep them profitable, general audiences and movie connoisseurs. La la Land catered to the more intellectual movie audiences while the properties that are based on existing properties have the appeal of "Oh I've heard of that!" It is a similar phenomena with musicals based on movies on Broadway. The Lion King, Hamilton, Mean Girls, etc. can draw in general audiences that are not plugged into the musical theatre scene because the marketing makes them think "Oh I'm partially familiar with this property and I liked that thing this is based off of so this feels like a safer bet than something I know nothing about". Movie Musicals that are not based on something else can't hide behind established familiarity like these movies with established collective knowledge can. That's why they can say "Bold new take" because there IS and existing take. For all their other faults, Dear Evan Hansen, Cats, Tick Tick Boom, etc. cannot do that because their entire appeal is that they are really good musicals. So while I do see your point in the trend of marketing, I think it is a misguided trend that fails to see the real causation here.

[@maitaniyama]

Watching the new one, I realized just how effective the original’s “make Regina get fat” plot was. In the original, Regina was shamed at a clothing store for not fitting their largest size (which was like a size 0), told her to shop at K-Mart(?), making it all the more logical for her to go nuclear. The new version diminished the degree of cruelty of the payback, and that extra “teenagers are shitty” layer. The new one was her falling over in the talent show and running on the treadmill on a Friday night. Personally, the mental scaring can’t compare. And just a nitpick, this isn’t the early 2000s. You’d definitely be looking up the calorie bars online and immediately find its to gain weight. Especially since it’s available enough that her grandmother was given them

[@SodPassionGaming]

I can't talk about La La Land, but I'm pretty sure most people knew The Greatest Showman & Rocket Man were musicals, at least after the opening weekend. I feel the big difference is whether something goes viral in a positive way about a movie before release. With ad free streaming services & KZbin with Premium or Ad Blockers being the biggest ways people watch media, positive virility is the only way you can make sure people know about your film.

[@steviehills4256]

We saw Mean Girls on Broadway 4 times, it’s such a fun show! My musical theatre friends & I rented out a theatre for a private screening. We sang along like it’s Broadway Karaoke Night & used popcorn as confetti. We’ve done this for every other movie musical release, it’s become our tradition. (Yes, we clean up the popcorn ourselves.)

[@smithmarina970]

Can i join your friend list? You guys sound like fun😁

[@sketchycat6223]

I need friends like this

[@WhenNerdsAttack]

This sounds like a lot of fun, but throwing popcorn around so theater workers have to clean it up? Come on.

[@bex1107]

Do you clean up that popcorn confetti?

[@steviehills4256]

Yes, we do.@@bex1107

[@alisonheaney6341]

with the percy jackson show coming out i think it would be the perfect time to talk about the musical

[@sareizareads]

yes! i genuinely enjoyed the lightning thief musical, it showed that it cared about the source material and understood its audience (young kids and young adults who love the original series) implicitly. the musical has a lot of really good character work, too, even for characters like luke castellan who don’t get their motivation genuinely understood until the later books… the good kid reprise in last day of summer gives me CHILLS every time i listen to

[@isabellp.5730]

@@sareizareads me too! ugh james hayden rodriguez just SELLS it every time!

[@Kai-rc7fw]

He knew and he was cooking

[@alisonheaney6341]

@@Kai-rc7fw i must be the oracle of delphi with how i predicted it 2 weeks before it dropped

[@KatyListerX]

m so gutted over In The Heights and it’s loss… saw it in the cinema several times, actually bought the DVD in the era of streaming and bought it on Sky… absolutely love it so much, and desperate for it to come back out in the UK theatre scene ❤️

[@JuQui228]

“Nobody hates musicals, they just haven’t found theirs yet.” Is so true. Started dating my boyfriend and even though he’s a gay man he’s never really seen a musical or had much interest in musical theater. I on the other hand am a theatre gay so that had to change and change QUICKLY. I remember the first one that I took him to was a regional production of Sunday In the Park With George and telling him “oh you are going to love this. It will really speak to you. You are very much like George” and he says “I doubt it. Things rarely speak to me nowadays” well sufficed to say but that has now become his favorite show of all time. Every musical he watches he now compares to Sunday and so far according to him nothing has matched up. A Little Night Music though got very close for him. 😆

[@fergie42069]

when we asked for more musical films what we meant was more pro-shots a la Hamilfilm and we got DEH and this instead

[@devinvasilkioti]

I also think the difference between some of these movies is how some are adaptions of shows and others are it’s own thing

[@PianoDisneygal10]

“Gretchen and Kendra, respectively” Excuse me, sir? 🤣 Most Karen like moment ever there.

[@cleverlilvixen]

I have to say I disagree with the notion that misleading advertising campaigns are ever a good thing. On top of the immediate backlash from a betrayed audience, that tactic risks alienating your potential “cult” following in the future. Studios need to embrace musicals for what they are, immediate niche projects that payoff in the long term. A winning formula seems to be keeping production costs as low as possible early on. The big budget musical is probably going to become a really hard sell in Hollywood. It will be telling to track Wicked part 1 and 2…

[@thaisgregorio2734]

Cady is not a senior, she is a junior. Aaron is a senior

[@CareBearCub]

The thing with the record button is, we're not meant to be watching a video that they recorded, we're watching the video *as* they record it, kind of from their perspective so it makes sense that we see the record button.

[@baixiaolang]

The elf product placement was like, the least offensive thing about this movie. The most being that they seemed to forget that comedies are supposed to have lots of jokes in them

[@RawbeardX]

the whole movie budget thing has one problem. a movie has to do at LEAST twice its budget before it has recouped its costs. it is better to assume 2.5 times its budget to pick the point where it makes a profit. Wonka is basically... profitable, but not profitable enough for the kind of money spend on it.

[@luvlyerdj93]

Fun fact about it switching from streaming to theatrical. They only had to hire 25 union bg actors instead of 85. I'm sure it saved them tons of money considering they wrapped 2 weeks behind schedule and there were several days when shooting went over 16 hours (look up golden time)

[@crimsonmaverick8237]

“Nobody hates musicals, they just haven’t found theirs yet.” It’s just like with anime, I swear!

[@wonieism]

i for some reason CAN NOT get why people dislike musicals. but you worded it fantastically, "they just havent found theirs yet." im now gonna live by that

[@edits_by_juna]

1:01 that was based on… a book. (Queen bees and Wannabes)

[@klu5301]

Seeing that Mean Girls 2024 has made $100+ million dollars in theaters on a $36 million dollar in just about a month is such a great achievement for everyone involved! I am also in the majority of people that enjoyed the film so I am celebrating for them!

[@GamingSaturnMoonManBoy]

This is why Gen Z should be using IMDb more often

[@hannasolotowizki4579]

When you said - nobody doesnt like musical, i immediately remembered about "the guy who didnt like musicals" from starkids 😂 Great video, btw ❤

[@nir0bateman]

Cats actually lost about 100M, a film's production budget doesn't account for marketing, and that's why it's considered a massive flop (Same with West Side Story). Mathilda didn't make a profit, it just lost less than the previous ones because it wasn't as expensive.

[@justinshawmedy]

I hear you about the red dot! How I interpret the red dot/phone fiasco is that it's meant to convey present action - ie: it's being recorded in 'real time' by the character. I find it effective when used to convey that the character is presently recording, but when it's used to show something previously recorded it makes no sense! Great video, love. the channel!

[@Lindsay-Makes-Videos]

I'm so glad you exist, I just don't see this kind of content about musicals enough. If anyone out there wants to respond to this comment with recommendations so I can get my algorithm on board with this, feel free!

[@WaitintheWings]

*How to make me tear up in a Panera part 1*

[@Lindsay-Makes-Videos]

@@WaitintheWings 😂😂💖💖💖

[@reelirish7]

MickeyJoTheater is the only other consistent theater channel I have found so far

[@chadmeredith1198]

Great video! I love the love for Starkid, as well. Long live Starkid!

[@timrob12]

16:10 - Kinda true on that as I went to see the movie with my parents and my mom was like: "Oh? It's a musical." And honestly, I didn't know that either. (Or at least that there would be more than one song) Not that it didn't ruin our enjoyment of the movie, it's just a confirmation that it wasn't marketed as such.

[@j.j2998]

For Wicked, I'm actually hoping this would be successful, considering how very popular Wicked is and since their splitting into 2 parts, I hope somehow it would suppress the budget

[@JuQui228]

Heathers the Musical would have been a much better movie adaptation. It has that edge and that bite but the songs still speak to a younger audience. They released this movie way too soon. The musical just came out on Broadway and I don’t think has had a chance to even develop a more larger and loyal following that you get after years of community theatre productions and national tours.

[@maddybraps100]

as a gen z who just finished high school, 2004 mean girls is infinitely more relatable than the new one. tiktok just isnt that big a part of high school gossip and drama

[@Sam-tk6dq]

The choreography in this movie is so killer, I wasn't expecting how much fun I was going to have while watching the chero

[@laurastall4419]

how well a movie depends on a lot of other factors too, I think. Wonka stars Timothee Chalamet who is like, America's favorite heartthrob, and The Greatest Showman had Hugh Jackman, Zendaya, and Zac Efron. In The Heights had really talented actors, but they weren't the *huge* mainstream names that people knew (aside from the fact that it was released during a pandemic). Anthony Ramos is a broadway star. It's different. Advertising it as a musical v. not doing it feels like kind of a small factor, tbh.

[@lauriesmith4575]

Part of the reason why a movie musical like RENT was so successful, in my opinion, is the fact that they used SIX of the EIGHT ORIGINAL Broadway cast in the film, who can ACTUALLY sing. Renee was the only reason I sat through this dumpster fire.

[@ryanschwartz4959]

You know, as much as I enjoyed the 2024 movie, I have to admit the new orchestrations for "Sexy" and "Apex Predator" will take some getting used to. Also, I have a feeling the $95M budget for Cats mostly came from the A-list celebrities in the cast and the VFX work needed to make them look like cats. Doesn't help that director Tom Hooper wouldn't let the cast wear motion capture suits on the grounds that their performances would be restricted (tell that to Andy Serkis).

[@19BeccaJo90]

Look into how Sweeney Todd was marketed vs how much it made. That is the original "Hide that it's a musical" movie

[@Kunstner1004]

I think an issue with the Musical "flops" is that they relied on their position as well known musicals (except the Hights which mostly relied on Hamilton). I don't think people mind going to watch musicals, but they need some other reason beyond "it's a musical" to want to go. I think people forget to sell the story in many of these cases. "Modern remake of the classic" isn't enough of a sell when there's a bunch of people who have no relation to the classic in the first place.

[@Justin-vw6sv]

One thing you have to remember when looking at budgets for movies is that you have to double the listed amount to account for all the money that goes towards advertising. So the box office bombs like Cats and Dear Evan Hansen are even WORSE that you thought.

[@whitneymouse]

20:55 idk about including Greatest Showman and Rocketman. They’re both biopics. And the Greatest Showman soundtrack went SUPER viral. I’ll also add Color Purple has smaller theater reach than Wonka and Mean Girls. My local theaters are only playing Color Purple in 3 of them and one is in a city an hour away. Also doesn’t have pleasant nostalgia the way the other two do.

[@Lawrence89MUSICman]

I don't think the numbers say much but rather what was going on those years. I wonder if those three films came out today or before covid, we would be saying something different. I don't think the studios are on to something. I can see them trying to use these numbers as an argument and leave out what hit the world in 2020-2022.

[@camdenpark3302]

The red button is supposed to show they are filming the video on their phone not watching it back.

[@rachellobo5569]

I truly think Tick Tick Boom is the BEST movie musical that's been made in the last two decades at least. And I think the difference is that Lin directed it, it's was made by a theatre kid FOR theatre kids.

[@rosie5046]

my dad, who hates musicals and would never take me and my sisters to musicals if he could help it, was SOOOO excited when into the woods came out in movie theaters. Halfway through the opening number he leaned over to me, a big musical fan, and whispered "I didn't realize it was going to have singing..." I then got the delight of telling him the entire thing was going to be sung... So yeah not marketing things as musicals works really well to get people to buy tickets....

[@kro3047]

My issue with this movie was not that it was a musical. My issue was that it was not ENOUGH of a musical. I was expecting a true recreation of the Broadway musical adapted to film but with the lack of so many songs the movie seemed to be having an identity crisis and made it feel so disjointed. Especially since many musical fans missed their chance to see it on stage it would have been a great opportunity for them to have their chance if this movie committed to actually being a full musical, especially since the original is not even that old. I get that the majority of movie goers dislike musicals, but they should have either committed to it and advertise it as one or have just made a non musical remake instead of inaccurate marketing and an indecisive half musical half not jumble that annoys the musical haters and leaves the musical lovers wanting more.

[@MalachiXulu]

4:02 Actually, the Mean Girls characters are juniors, not seniors

[@Bellanaya2315]

The most unrealistic thing for me was The Regina George using elf cosmetics 😂

[@jenjenbeingbored]

as someone who loves mean girls, and is also a fan of the musical (even tho it isn't the greatest musical ever) i was so disappointed with this. it felt like a shallow retelling of both the movie and the musical, without the heart of either. it didn't have as much wit or narrative progression+character development as the movie, and changing the production and placement of the musical numbers totally threw off the pacing. The whole point of a musical is that the music carries the story, but cutting where do you belong doesn’t showcase the new school environment Cady is in or develop her friendship w Janice and Damien, and cutting meet the plastics didn’t properly introduce the plastics or build up to a big regina introduction. It just felt like they were saying quotes from mean girls because it's a line from the '04 movie, not because the characters are actually feeling it. Most of the musical numbers also felt like a renee rapp music video and I'm sure the girlies that love her loved it but it didn’t add anything to the story and if anything slowed down the pace just so we can see more shots of regina. Having so few songs so randomly interspersed throughout the story made it feel so choppy and not have the consistent energy of a musical. Then even in the end when regina gets hit by the bus, it becomes a background gag behind Janice singing, instead of the narrative climax. Super disappointed but I'm glad I'm not the only one! I’m sure if anyone walked into the theatre not liking/ not knowing it was a musical, I can’t imagine they would have their opinions on musicals changed for the better.

[@trinaq]

The blatant product placement was a little distracting for me, though didn't hamper my enjoyment. The ELF and Spotify plugs were the most obvious, but then they had Lindsay Lohan cameo to literally plug Seatgeek! 😅

[@lustforlimerence]

this line change was frustrating cus the original line was just “sponsored by….no one” which i personally think is a better joke, but no, they had to squeeze in one more sponsorship i guess. all the love for lindsay lohan tho, we were hyped when she showed up

[@jecarlin]

I can't believe more people from the original didn't make the time to do cameos. Seeing Lindsay Lohan host the math competition was sweet! @@lustforlimerence

[@jollyrogervf103]

I think that a lot of the box office revenue for musicals, especially when you look at Wonka, The Color Purple, and Mean Girls, somewhat shows that even if people don't like musicals and aren't expecting it, they'll still buy that product for name recognition alone. I saw all 3 of these movies within the first week of release and The Color Purple had 4 people (including myself) in the theater meanwhile the other two were really full and I ended up in less-than-desirable seating in the very front. This theory regarding name recognition also holds up somewhat with live theatre. I live near a touring theatre and this past year they hosted the casts of Aladdin, Hamilton, Hadestown, The Lion King, Dear Evan Hansen, and Fiddler on the Roof. Of all these, Hadestown and Fiddler had the least attendance (from what I saw) while Hamilton and Lion King had the most. When you compare these 4 examples, the first two are not widely known (in my experience) outside of the theatre community. At the same time, the latter two have had huge fanbases and recognizability outside of just the theatre community (especially with the "recent" pro-shot and live-action). I don't know, it's just my take on why some of these movie musicals are doing better than others despite a pushback against musicals.

[@if3359]

I think another thing about the current movie musicals is, they're all adaptations of previous material. That might have also led to bigger audiences. This "formula" seems to be working, otherwise we wouldn't be seeing so many live action Disney adaptations. For West Side Story it didn't work (maybe because that was already a musical so less 'newness'?), but with DEH and ITH - they weren't based on something wildly familiar. They were, to many, just new movies that were musicals, and that might've had more trouble attracting musical-skeptics.

[@VentureOrder101]

It hard to say how much more money in the heights would have gotten that movie was also released on hbo max same time as in theater

[@AceTheQuoka]

Just so people know, and I dislike when people say “it wasn’t marketed as a musical.” Because It was. There was singing, and dancing in the trailers, there is a music note in the A. People need to pay more attention. Don’t blame the marketing because your upset you don’t want singing and dancing in your classic movie. I love all three, the movie, the musical and the musical movie. Just like wonka! There was singing and dancing in the trailers.

[@cooperwolfe5478]

I agree. The only thing I’ll say is that in the trailer that I watched the main song that plays is an Olivia Rodrigo song so I could understand how people could watch that trailer and think that characters are going to dance to pop songs in the film. But the note in the A in the logo should’ve given it away.

[@caribousproductions]

11:20 I'm not seeing their in the middle of recording not watching a video so technically it would be there

[@bethchills]

I don’t mind movies not being marketed as musicals. Like you said, at least we’re getting musicals. I thought Mean Girls was… fine. Several of the cast did a great job (mainly Renee Rapp who I’d let stomp on my head with her Louboutin heel) That being said… I did not love Ms Rice as Cady. She was fine, but you could tell she didn’t have the experience, ESPECIALLY when her counter part is Ms Rapp. An example of this was having to pull back Regina’s solos as to not overpower the other cast. Booooo, let my girl sing. As a theatre gay, I get so sad when they put out a musical and it’s ass or not something I’d watch twice. Ultimately, I don’t think the movie adaptation has to be high camp like the original musical is, but at least don’t dumb it down for an audience that wouldn’t have bought a ticket if they HAD been told it was a musical.

[@thebugthatruinsyourpicnic]

Love your shirt, given that it is, in fact, wednesday

[@seakhajiit]

This is the first i'm hearing of The Colour Purple movie! Also I wasn't interested in Wonka until my Aunt went with her daughter and told me it was a musical, it just seemed like Hugo with less mystery or Greatest Showman without the music XD

[@gayhomosexuallll]

Absolutely recommend you see TCP in theaters!!!!

[@genevieveleblanc9205]

I think you're missing out a massive data point - Wonka was marketed as a PREQUEL to the original stories that we already know. The Colour Purple and Mean Girls are both just being marketed as REMAKES. I saw a lot of audience confusion over why they should go see the new Mean Girls or Colour Purple when they've already seen the originals, which is not a problem that Wonka had. Even though it heavily de-emphasized the fact that it is a musical in its marketing, its prequel status to the Gene Wilder movie (which is also a musical!) can't be ignored.

[@luigi3duran]

PREACH! Someone finally said what I have been saying to everyone complaining about these marketings! If you did not go to see any of the doomed yet WONDERFUL musicals of 2021, you don't get to complain!

[@MouseRants]

Honestly I think cutting the songs from Act II just kinda made the movie devolve back into a more watered down version of the original, with many lines coming DIRECTLY from the 2004 version. I loved it, don't get me wrong, but it made no sense to do this when they're not going to differentiate between the perfectly good and still relevant original.

[@TheWizardGamez]

There’s some great questions like “why” “who asked for this” “who cares” “the original was already good”. But I think the better question is… why didn’t they go in? Why didn’t they show the bitchiness and pettiness of some female-female interactions. Also, euphoria has done it.

[@ajmalaika1287]

I am interested to see where this pop-skewed compositions will lead because I feel like the choice was made less to suit the context of the movie and more to be able to get streams and radio play. I am very curious what will happen to Wicked’s soundtrack and Once on this island

[@bigchad9255]

My flex is that Ben wang (the guy who played the mathleete named Jacob) came to my school to help direct out production of 12 angry jurors. I played juror #7 and he was so nice to us, like he learned all our names and gave us really good advice. Literally the only reason I went to see the new mean girls in theaters was because I wanted to see him.

[@NIGHTGUYRYAN]

ive got to be honest - i really appreciate the hard work and talent required to make a musical. genuinely! its why im subscribed to this channel! the bts stories are so fascinating! - that being said, im one of those people that doesnt find a musical as an engaging narrative structure (for me!) i generally have a hard time understanding lyrics when im hearing songs for the first time - so for that to be a major part of the storytelling...i cant get into it. i also get worn out by song after song after song. a jukebox musical like moulin rouge is a little easier to digest, but even then i find myself skipping half the scenes. im glad the musical fans were so vocal in warning me this was a musical. 😂

[@NIGHTGUYRYAN]

i'll just add - the musical number in addams family values and the movie waiting for guffman really crack me up - but i feel like they're making fun of musicals? does that count? i guess i like them when they're trying to be bad lol.

[@mb323]

mama this was horrible. misunderstood their audience so bad that they didn’t commit to either idea (modern version OR musical) and ended up doing a bad version of both.

[@Kai-rc7fw]

I wonder how this compares to things like the limited release of waitress

[@nataliacruz6354]

They just didn't lean into the musical aspects enough and half the people couldn't even sing ...

[@thedistorychannel]

Hopefully The Color Purple will do well in it's released in Europe next week 😀

[@lacy.x0]

Okay, unrelated but, it was so random for mean girls to get a musical, when there is a good chance that old regina would 100% bully theatre kid regina, lol.