We need to talk about the Gen 2 Apollo Interfaces...

[@chazdickerson4925]

As a loyal universal audio user I just cancelled my order I realized this is not the way. Yes I still need dsp so I’m not with everyone saying dsp isn’t needed anymore. But yes they should have definitely added more dsp or updated more powerful dsp for this price point. They have really let us down . Sonarworks is a huge gimmick being the fact they are charging us to use. I can’t believe this.

[@vincentkleinmusic]

I really like UA. Both their gear and plugins are top notch, but this release just isn’t it. I think DSP will always have a place in tracking, even if most systems these days are powerful enough to mix without it. Either way an update to the DSP capabilities would have been nice, and like I said if not, then the price difference is too much. The gen 1s are perfectly serviceable so they can certainly stick to their guns here, but then they should be upfront about it.

[@DDC-12]

FACTS‼️💯👍🏿👍🏿

[@Fernspersonalchannel-p8m]

I got the x16 gen 2 last week; I own an 8xp. It's totally worth the upgrade. More head room better sound quality. The sound quality is reason enough to upgrade. Just saying.

[@vincentkleinmusic]

I’m glad it works for you! As I stated in the video I’ve not been hands on with the unit but honestly I can’t see a technical reason for improved sound quality, sure converters are marginally improved but I’m dubious about audible improvements on account of that. That being said, I don’t want to dog on your purchase, they’re great interfaces just as the gen 1s were!

[@JoaoRelego]

I love UA. Focus on music, not specs. As an old UA user, I am NOT disappointed. Whether you have a 2012 Apollo silverface or the newest models, you can make records! If you're a spec guy, yeah go look around for whoever has the best specs, and make your "perfect" music...

[@chazdickerson4925]

@@JoaoRelego how can you love ua when they are clearly not loving you back lol

[@vincentkleinmusic]

I like UA products but that doesn’t mean I can’t criticize them when they aren’t living up to expectations. I agree you don’t need the new models to make great music and you may well not care about these new models but people that are in the market for an interface should check specs and decide on the best value for them, and currently to my mind that’s still gen 1

[@johanandre5338]

focus on music, not specs. but if you want a couple of plugins you need to buy a satellite expansion.

[@kitamimori]

I'm a long-time user of Twin X,and this update has greatly disappointed me. The previous generation is obviously a better choice, offering almost the same performance at a lower price. There is absolutely no need to pay for those gimmicks.

[@vincentkleinmusic]

My feelings exactly, it’s just a minor overhaul

[@flowmerlin]

when could we expect the next gen of apollo’s for windows

[@parfolomew]

i got to try one before release in my setup, i enjoyed it, being a first time apollo user it was fine

[@vincentkleinmusic]

Very cool to hear from someone that has used one! As I said in the video, I don’t think it’s necessarily a bad product, just badly marketed and too expensive for the improvements made. I personally think you might have been just as happy with a gen 1 given the minimal differences.

[@LuiCardenasphotography]

100 Agree! I’ve been looking to expand my Twin X Quad (Heritage) and was excited for the new releases… the excitement didn’t last long. So I’m now looking into an X8 or X8P model. Don’t think I’ll miss not having the “new” features

[@vincentkleinmusic]

Thing is you’ll have the more relevant ones anyway. I think if you want to get into the UAD ecosystem, now is a great time to do so, just with gen 1.

[@Seraph137]

Nice to see a honest opinion on their launch. So many other "influences" would make you think this is the great update, interface gear in the world. Sheesh.

[@vincentkleinmusic]

Thanks! Yeah I was a little disappointed that no one seemed to be covering this angle. Then again everyone is entitled to their opinions.

[@Seraph137]

@@vincentkleinmusic I have a feeling, the "big" people in audio are not going to say what you said in fear of angering UAD or possible other audio companies.

[@chazdickerson4925]

@@Seraph137 they should we should all tell the truth maybe they would pull this release because it was horrible idea they will def lose money on this

[@vincentkleinmusic]

I don’t have any insight to the working relationships between reviewers and manufacturers. I would hope they’d have editorial freedom but I can see how it might not be worth risking your ability to do reviews although then that kinda defeats the purpose. I’m too small to be seeded products anyway and even if I weren’t there really wouldn’t be any point to reviewing something without sharing my thoughts.

[@vincentkleinmusic]

Don’t be under any illusions, no amount of backlash would ever have them pull this product and I think they’ll be making a lot of money on these. It‘s possible that enough backlash would have forced a plugin bundle free tier but even that is kinda doubtful. In the end (as you can clearly see throughout the comment section) I don’t even think the majority of UA customers agrees with me so it is what it is.

[@dandanthesoundman7607]

Great video, tbh I was considering the new unit to upgrade from my old MKII to a new DUO because of all the UADx plugs I have now. But also as I run a Mac & a PC setup I need a USB-3 unit and as far as I can tell the new lineup only has Thunderbolt units. So, as you’ve shown how similar they are you’ve convinced me that the only option I have is the Gen1 X:).

[@vincentkleinmusic]

I‘m glad to be of service. The great news about this release is that gen 1 is now discounted and just as good! And yes the new lineup is Thunderbolt only

[@dandanthesoundman7607]

@@vincentkleinmusic Update, I managed to nab an Apollo X Gen1 DUO USB for £717 pre-loved (with full warranty) through Thomann:).

[@vincentkleinmusic]

Perfect, congrats on your new gear day!

[@ProducedI]

You recommend upgrading my mk2 to the x?

[@ProducedI]

I like tracking

[@vincentkleinmusic]

Well it depends TBH. If there’s something you’re struggling with, you’re lacking channels or something of that sort, sure, although I’d personally try to get a gen 1. Otherwise a mk2 is still a really solid unit

[@Robert44444444]

Interesting take… I've never seen one of your vids prior to this one, and I've got to say the amount of emphasis you put into nearly every line you speak makes those hyper-energetic, talking heads who pitch products on late-night TV seem lethargic by comparison… might I suggest a switch to decaf?

[@vincentkleinmusic]

Honestly this one was very heat of the moment, I had to write the script, record and edit everything down between projects so that might have rubbed off. Thanks for the feedback! Always appreciated

[@Seraph137]

I really like UAD plugins (well, many of them). But I agree with you, disappointment. They did not address the weakness of the OLD gen, A/D conversion Pre-Amp quality, and updated DSP chips that would be more on par with Avid Carbon. ,

[@vincentkleinmusic]

I honestly think conversion is at a level now that any improvements will simply not matter much, which is why it being a major marketing point was so disingenuous to me. Pre amp quality to my mind is also not a big weakness on the old units, particularly with unison being such a big deal. I think new DSP and an interface class for the real world would have been nice, something with 24 inputs via 2 adat streams so you don’t need to dasychain two expensive interfaces. Then again even sticking with it the way they have could have been ok, just don’t make that big a fuzz about it.

[@Seraph137]

@@vincentkleinmusic To that regards, I think any big company that is coming out with a 1U unit should be thinking about Dante and Atmos future path, even if people don't have 15 speakers yet... lol... it seems the biggest "refresh" was the new color on the faceplate. Reminds me of old school 80's home audio.

[@vincentkleinmusic]

That’s very fair. Everything you’ve mentioned is available on the x16 only and I’m somewhat annoyed at them always kneecapping the rest of the rackmount lineup.

[@JimboJones99]

If the GEN2 converters are on par or superior to Lynx Aurora N, Apogee SE or Prism … then the update is definitely worth it. But I doubt the new converters would match

[@vincentkleinmusic]

Honestly I’m not sure converters are enough of a deal on their own these days. It’s not like the early days of digital

[@JimboJones99]

@@vincentkleinmusic if the converters are Apogee Symphony mkii SE quality or Lynx Hilo quality .. then I think this update is DEFINITELY worth it .. however I dont think the converters would be of this mastering grade quality as UAD haven't really made a big deal about the converters

[@TroubadourMusic]

I believe you are incorrect about the preamps being supported. You're talking about Luna, not Apollo. As far as I understand the Apollo unison takes the UAD preamps and always did.

[@vincentkleinmusic]

I believe you misunderstood. The new Auto Gain feature (only supported on Gen 2 interfaces) only supports Neve API and SSL unison preamps, that’s all I said and as far as I’m aware that’s the case

[@TroubadourMusic]

@@vincentkleinmusic ok gotcha. I'll add that at first I thought, wow, auto-gain. But then I thought, really, who needs that? Am I that lazy that I can't set my gain? That and better conversion no one will ever hear. Yeah, I'm good with the Apollo X4 that I have. I love it.

[@vincentkleinmusic]

Yeah I mean I can definitely see some situations where it might be useful, like for example when I’m recording videos by myself but then again it’s not that big a deal to set gain, particularly as it isn’t a physical knob on the interface anyway…

[@yael_valle]

what u failed to acknowledge is that the $2799 price tag on the Gen1 x8p is a discounted price from the original which is $3399, the features may not be a wow factor, but you can only do so much with improving DSP, the only other DSP box on the market is McDSP and they haven't don't anything new with their units except maybe make a unit with more channels, and to the guy who said Sonarworks is a gimmick, its much cheaper than paying to get your room acoustically treated and having it built in to the unit actually ends up saving you money from having to buy a crossover for your subwoofer or and monitor controller for your LFE setup. So while at face value it doesn't seem that good, there are a lot of QoL improvements, and the price is more so the same from the original, but the tech market is reaching a evolutionary plateau so expecting to have all these crazy improvements is unreasonable, especially if you aren't someone who actually knows that it takes to build these units.

[@vincentkleinmusic]

Well ACTUALLY I did acknowledge that the 2799€ price was discounted which is why I only put it in writing and said 2999€. The reason I chose that price is that it’s been pretty consistently what they’ve gone with for the last several years. Otherwise I agree with most of what you are saying and I think said as much in the video. DSP is in an ok place, they could have done more but it was ok before and there are some quality of life improvements. But once again like I said the marketing combined with the price increase which is 779, as like you said the unit has only been marginally improved (plus it’s a forced plugin bundle) is why I do not think UAD did well here, not because the product isn’t good. (To be clear I don’t have one and can therefore not make any judgement on that) As for sonarworks. I think what he meant is that having to pay 50-80 bucks on top of your sonarworks price is kinda steep which is why it’s a gimmick. Also the bass management is separate and does not cost money.

[@yael_valle]

@@vincentkleinmusic In terms of Sonicworks they're 2 separate pieces of software, and like i said regardless if you're trying to do any sort of compensation you're going to have to spend money, and hardware solution is going to cost more than using a software like sonar works or even IK's Arc, and when u call something gimmicky your insinuating its a something that's cool to have but doesn't have any practical use, which i can guarantee thousands of studios/producers are using sonarworks to curb the expense of paying hundreds or thousands to treat a room. In terms of the cost of the Gen2 Apollo x8p, there's a $100 price difference not a $799, you cannot compare a discounted price to MSRP because its disingenuous to the actual fact that the Gen1 is $3399 and the Gen2 is $3499, the discount shown is likely so that distributors can clear out stock of the old to make room for the new. Mind you also this going to be a unit aimed at new users, and users who have not yet upgraded, most people are going to be fine not getting an Gen2, I just bought my Gen x4 this year, but I am in need of a multi-channel rack unit so I will be getting the gen2 in the near future, and I feel as though many people will also be making that consideration once Gen1 ends up becoming discontinued.

[@vincentkleinmusic]

To be clear, I was not saying sonarworks is a gimmick, but the difference isn’t that huge vs running it on your PC. There are advantages though and I’ve acknowledged as much in the video, I don’t think I criticized that feature one bit. As for the cost, there may be a Europe vs US thing going on. The 3499$ version Sweetwater is offering is 3779€ over here, meanwhile the old interfaces are at price parity (2799$ and 2799€ respectively right now). Yet I’m actually basing the price increase on the pre discount price of around 3000€ (it was up to 3100 and as low as 2900 for the last few years, so clearly there was enough margin there to sell it like that). MSRP from 6 years ago shouldn’t have much bearing on this as so much has changed. Everyone is entitled to making their own purchasing decisions but if it were my money I’d probably get the discounted gen 1 models right now as that would save me nearly 1000€ on an x8p right now.

[@blessed_by_welfare5922]

Mcdsp Apb has no dsp its analog that’s digitally controlled like Bettermaker or wesaudio

[@pedroboschibrasil]

Totally agree! Not even 32 bit, ridiculous! Look at the new interfaces in the market better dynamic range, some can record up to 768khz. UA is not well

[@vincentkleinmusic]

I’ll be honest imho anything above 192/24 is just extraneous data collection for music (in fact even that’s kinda overkill). I think it’s genuinely hard to innovate in the sector right now which is why I’m not even blaming UAD for releasing this product, it’s the how that really bugs me. Yeah better/more DSP would have been good and as you’ve said other manufacturers have stepped up their game in terms of resolution, but if they had come out and said: „look we made our great product a little better“ it would have been ok. Instead they made a huge fuss about absolutely nothing to write home about

[@blessed_by_welfare5922]

If you have auto gain does 32 bit still have its advantages?

[@prospectnyc]

I just got the Apollo 8x Gen 2 two days ago and I'm returning it! The build quality is worse than my original Apollo 8x (the power switch is loose, the knobs are wobbly, and it randomly shut off twice). Also, despite the higher price tag, they only offered ONE free plugin out of a selection they pick out - and I already had all the ones I wanted from their list (which is a small list) and they won't extend the offer to any other plug ins. The person answering the support emails at UA was also rude and condescending. FFFF that! $3k to feel gipped. NOPE.

[@vincentkleinmusic]

Thanks for sharing your experience! So how did the plugin thing work? Because their offer has a full list of plugins included, I’m guessing you owned those?

[@prospectnyc]

@@vincentkleinmusic When you pick out the one free plug in, it’s from a limited list. It’s not their entire catalog.

[@vincentkleinmusic]

Ok very interesting and weird. As I understood it you got a whole package of plugins and if you had those already you were sol, this is even worse then…

[@berdeauxlaveau6515]

The reason why UA didnt add more dsp is because they are using native plugins and luna extensions as a way to combat dsp usage. The point of an Apollo is to use the entire ecosystem. I started using LUNA, and my cpu usage, dsp management has been no issue. I have a Twin MKII QUAD. I have no complaints. I am actually excited to upgrade and get a GEN 2 X4. It is damn near identical in specs as a rackcmount if i get an OCTO satellite i will have triple my dsp for the same price as a rack mounted apollo. I am happy with UAD. They are also making all their plugins more affordable so i do believe its the best bang for your buck out there. My mixes have also gotten better since swithing to LUNA and using their extensions.

[@vincentkleinmusic]

I’m not suggesting anything else in the video, at least it wasn’t the intention. The conclusion at the end says as much. I’m fine with the refresh they’ve done (although a little disappointed) but marketing it the way they did is the problem, particularly the price hike and the forced plugin bundles. I’ve been using LUNA as my main DAW and I’ve got one video already out on it, I’ve also got another one coming. That said I do not like walled garden approaches, while I am a Mac user and like I said use LUNA I do think UAD should consider each of their products as standalone first as even using all of them combined is not always viable

[@bobbyarthur-yf3yf]

Here’s a decent real life review …

[@berdeauxlaveau6515]

@@bobbyarthur-yf3yf wym?

[@doetube9746]

How about latency? That is what we paid for when we got the overpriced Apollo dongles, but today we cannot run the most recent native-only plugins because DSP is not powerful enough to run them. We expected Gen 2 to allow this, but it has been a let down. They have got balls to call their freshly painted Apollos Gen 2. At best, they are Gen 1.1.

[@berdeauxlaveau6515]

@@doetube9746 I don't understand what your question is. Native plugins run on your computer cpu not dsp. You dont even own an apollo you're just talking

[@blasegangbeats1865]

I know they didn’t update the A to D but I thought it was great especially owning a lynx aura (don’t like how recording sounds on them) because like you the gear was so old dint want to spend the money on old tech I have an x8 I’ll use that for recording in and the Linux for monitoring. Instead of upgrading and with this news I got a Trinnov because being of owner of sonarworks it’s not worth the money. It’s a bunch of gimmicks and this release was far too late. If they upgraded or added more dsp chips maybe but no they just want our money or just trying to please new clientele and don’t care for the old anymore.

[@dandanthesoundman7607]

Quite true

[@vincentkleinmusic]

Yeah the release was overall too gimmicky for my taste. I think I’ll be going with an RME Fireface UFX as my reason for upgrading is needing a whole bunch of inputs.

[@blasegangbeats1865]

@@vincentkleinmusic yeah it’s unfortunate

[@seanriley9045]

No DSP updates what so ever. Plus a price increase. So disappointing. This is THEE single thing I had hoped for for years. I LOVE rock solid DSP workflows.

[@vincentkleinmusic]

Absolutely valid, I think a DSP upgrade would have been great. I was hoping for a single unit to accommodate more than 16 channels, I need at least 24 and it’s impractical/too expensive to link 2 units plus various adat expansions or DB25 breakout etc.

[@artprojectsnz]

Sounds like not a good deal at all…..will wait for something else - like maybe the new Apogee? Whats the skinny on that?

[@vincentkleinmusic]

I mean honestly it depends on what you’re looking for, I am a UA user after all, Apogee come with their own issues so there’s that. The question is always what you need, I think if you’re interested in UA simply get a discounted Gen 1 unit, they got all the relevant updates anyway. Apogee has only updated their USB lineup as far as I’m aware and expandablity on those units is pretty poor. Otherwise there’s really no need to upgrade if your current setup works for you.

[@loweroctaves]

Such a vague release basically just a software update. The real offense here is no extra inputs or better preamps. The neumann mt48 gives you high gain preamps and much more for cheaper than a lower specd x4? This is what people should be mad about. Crazy you have to spend almost 4grand just to get 8 mic inputs on the 8xp. I have most ua plugins too so don’t need that either.

[@vincentkleinmusic]

Yeah they’re rivaling Apple for vagueness. The thing is I’d probably get an Apollo in a heartbeat if they offered a 24-30 channel interface, give me something RME Fireface style, 4 mic pres in the front and 24 more line/adat inputs, it’s not like there’s 2 adat inputs in the back of the rackmounts…

[@elijahmant2855]

Money them looking. Any audio products that gets upgraded to often, too soon is a total turn off for me. Some people have plenty money and like to follow the : Buy the latest and so called Greatest. Next thing you know. Your usual product becomes discontinued. This is expensive business for real.

[@vincentkleinmusic]

I mean to be fair it’s been 6 years and they haven’t exactly rocked the boat with this new version. I do think you should always stick with what works for as long as possible, upgrades really aren’t necessary particularly with current interfaces, but they shouldn’t have marketed these ones as revolutionary.

[@elijahmant2855]

@@vincentkleinmusic I respect your point, Vincent. Six years isn't too soon I suppose with these types of products. Thanks for reminding me. My apology. My comment was cause I done a whole heap of research before I bought my current audio interface. As I had and used an Motu for about 13 years, never any trouble. But upgraded for better and more modern conversion, sound-wise. I chose RME fireface ufx III. Expensive, but re- known for reliability and supporting their products for very long times.

[@REMRODFILMS]

scam new paint job! lmao!

[@mxvidstosee]

Annoyingly too much Dynamic range in your voice is peaking out my eyes...😖

[@bobbyarthur-yf3yf]

Show us around your studio .. UAD gets the job done

[@vincentkleinmusic]

I‘m not saying it doesn’t, just that gen 1 is the better value to my mind.

[@Allious131]

It's not worth it

[@djcode6983]

The auto gain is not software based 😂. All the internal board have been updated. Conversion has been updated on both the A/D and D/A and that’s directly from Drew at UA. Customer service will also allow you to swap plugins if you already own them. I’ve already done so. Stop being so dramatic, it’s either for you or not. After trying these at Vintage King I’m leaning towards doing a full upgrade in my studios. I also think they will drop DSP eventually all together so I’ll enjoy these until then

[@vincentkleinmusic]

I had read all of Drew‘s responses as of recording the video, but as I’ve stated in the video UA has to be upfront about these things, not burry everything in forum posts. Also even Drew acknowledges „same preamps“ but other reports suggest updates there too, it’s a very confused product launch. Official marketing only mentions D/A and I’ve not found any official numbers for A/D or anything else. As for swapping the plugins, that’s the first I’ve heard of this, what exactly does that mean, do you get a refund on the plugins? Because otherwise it’s still not the same as offering a version of the unit without plugins. I’m also not saying they are a bad product, I just don’t see the value as opposed to gen 1 interfaces, but that’s for everyone to decide for themselves.

[@maxheadroom1073]

stop trying so hard to do KZbin voice