We're Not So Special, Animals Can Talk Too with Dr. Arik Kershenbaum - 275

[@TheAdamConover]

Get 20% off DeleteMe US consumer plans when you go to joindeleteme.com/Adam and use promo code ADAM at checkout. DeleteMe International Plans: international.joindeleteme.com/ // Listen to The Puzzler with AJ Jacobs, where he gives fun, audio-friendly puzzles to celebrity guests like Dax Shepard, Ken Jennings, and Paula Poundstone: www.iheart.com/podcast/1119-the-puzzler-with-aj-jacob-114688861/ // Get started at joinmochi.com and use code FACTUALLY for $40 off

[@switchfoot19802000]

I swear, closing my eyes when listening to DR. Arik. I can see wakko animaniac, in my brain. While I absolutely love it! 😁

[@WhiteRavenCoatL]

I had a dog that named everyone. He had unique barks for each person that I learned to distinguish. I always knew who was at the door before I looked. He also lived to be an extraordinary 21 years old, not bad for an 36kilo (80-lb.) dog. Coincidentally, his name was Alex. I think the range variation in intelligence between dogs may be relatively wider than it is in humans, that is to say there are some really dumb dogs, and some dogs that seem to have primate-level intelligence.

[@IMeMineWho]

Wow. Isn't the average dog's lifespan about 12-14 years? That is extraordinary. Don't you mean his name was "I Licks😆 (humans)?

[@VariantNode]

I have a teacup chihuahua who asks to get up on my lap specifically to play video games with me when I am playing them on the big screen in the living room. He sits with me, faces the TV, and for some reason mimmicks my button tapping. He legitimately puts his own paw out, and begins tapping keys. I thought it coincidental the first couple of times, but he kept at it consistently. He even made me jump a couple times in DOOM Eternal! Dogs/animals are way smarter than we assume.

[@aprilk141]

I like when cats say, "i really need to attack that bird but the window is in my way and Im having anxiety about it'.

[@bobspldbckwrds]

I was going to ask why i knew the exact chirping growl you were talking about, but the video we watched kinda answers that question.

[@BlueScreenCorp]

Its wild to me that people think that animals aren't self aware, aren't able to think about themselves as individuals, don't have language etc. Those are all very complex things, and due to how evolution works its a near impossibility that humans are the only creatures that possess those traits instead of you know those traits being developed and honed over many many generations in many different species...

[@IMeMineWho]

They just don't have occipitals most of them. If you think of it, even this (humans dissecting the meanings of animals) is condescending to the animals.

[@donaldthompson7766]

Prove it

[@livthedream5885]

@@IMeMineWhooccipitals? Occipital region is your visual cortex. All visual animals have the region, to a lesser or greater extent. Obviously elephants will have greater regions dedicated to sensory input from hearing and scent, as they rely more on these inputs, etc…. But I agree this is a condescending conversation from a biased scientist.

[@catsandbats]

The more you learn about plants the more you learn even they are intelligent and likely self aware on some level.

[@Irene-euwtxgp]

I know what you mean exactly

[@zac6499]

'the mirror test, which my dog fails every day' implies adam does the mirror test with his dog every day. just picture him, standing in front of the mirror, holding up his dog, shouting "DO YOU RECOGNIZE YOURSELF YET ?"

[@Shiftarus]

as a mirror and animal owner, usually it manifests more like you are checking how you look before work then dog: THE EVIL CLONE IS BACK >:O ATTACK HIM

[@mekudesu]

i do this with my dogs sometimes lol

[@LoneLupine]

I've been saying this all my life and I'm 36. I'm glad y'all are finally catching up.

[@omegahaxors9-11]

[very far into the future] Animals: "Do humans have language?" Humans: "Skibidi rizzler Andy dabbed bro, pog!!" Animals: "It would appear not. It's completely incoherent."

[@sloanekuria3249]

Not the future, literally right now 🤣 Animals think we're idiots

[@yensid4294]

Funny you guys are mentioning talking dogs/communicating with us, I just watched a cool Netflix special about The Mind of Your Dog & people are training dogs with big buttons with symbols they can push with their nose or paw & it says a word. They can actually put nouns & adjectives together to form simple sentences & express ideas & feelings. An ex: the dog pushes Want & Stick, or even Alert/Scared, etc. It was pretty wild. I have heard of some breeds that can have vocabularies of hundreds of words that they recognize when given a command. If told to get the monkey from the toy box, they know which toy it is & every toy's name. I think the herding/working dogs are more successful with this training since they were bred for it. Retreivers make great service dogs which takes intelligence & the right kind of disposition to be sucessfully trained. Animal intelligence & communication is really fascinating.

[@davidmccarthy6061]

Still amazed when I find humans that aren't aware that they are animals too.

[@twistedtales9710]

Through the lens of natural selection we assume that An animal will only have a Trait if that trait is beneficial to its survival, What we fail to consider is whether or not a given trait or set of behaviors is an emergent property of another set of traits that are beneficial to the survival of the animal.

[@grumpyoldman6503]

underrated comment. eg- our sense of self (consciousness itself may in fact be just be an emergent property of how our brains function). another way to put it- we didn't 'evolve' a sense of self because it was directly useful for survival/reproduction, but rather it happened as a by-product of an evolved sensory aparatus (our brain) sophisticated enough to navigate our environment and social structures over time and justify the increased caloric support of such an organ (the liver and brain being the 2 largest individual organs in consumption of our total energy expenditures, roughly 20% each). useful in the balance and we got existential dread as part of the package. neat.

[@itsROMPERS...]

​@@grumpyoldman6503 yes, but existential dread is clearly a survival mechanism. It motivated us to do things that enhance our ability to survive. The thing people overlook is that we have many mutations that weren't significant enough either way so they basically just hung around. Not every trait is actually selected, some just came along and didn't get eliminated.

[@grumpyoldman6503]

@itsROMPERS... I agree not every set of genes (or "trait") is selective nor necessarily beneficial for any organism, and further it is impossible to say to what degree that might NOT have been the case, nor how long ago in the evolutionary past it may have been more relevant to being a positive selection lever (and thus maybe why it is still represented in the genome). But the comment that existential dread is necessarily selective, and further that it is "useful", strikes me as a statement made without much to back it up except your own egotistical (in the Freudian sense) , human intuition. Why must that be the case, other than your own bias? How would it have occurred in the evolutionary past (to have a sense of self but no dread -> sense of self + dread), and that all presumes there is an "existential dread" gene which is operated on independently (which I'm also not aware can be pointed to). And that is the opposite of the OP comment I was agreeing with- that there doesn't need to be a gene involved for human behavior to manifest (eg the sense of "self" at all and our corresponding egotistical behavior as a consequence, both are emergent properties of the comolex organ which is our brain, the existential dread comment was flip).

[@tirsden]

If you haven't seen the word buttons people are using with cats (as well as some dogs), you should really check out videos from channels like Billi Speaks and Todd Talks. I've watched a lot of Todd lately and there are some videos where he uses words in new sentences with context that can actually be difficult for "Dad" to figure out until finally connecting the dots. Sometimes he doesn't even get it right, but commenters do! XD

[@lite1979]

"So long, and thanks for all the fish!" - [Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy] - Douglas Adams

[@lady_draguliana784]

also a banger of a showtune! 🎼🎶

[@funguy5624]

first sentence ; ''You know, Its hard to be a human out there.'' Yep. I agree

[@PazLeBon]

not with animal friends ;)

[@3nertia]

Only because capitalism makes it difficult heh

[@CynthiaMcG]

Adam, you're not entirely wrong about linguists. For my undergrad degree, I took a component that centered on linguistics. When I took two classes offered back to back, they were far enough away that if I left the earlier class on time, I would have been late to the second class. The second class's professor had a policy that the door was locked to prevent latecomers from arriving. I'm starting to realize that this was agreed upon by both professors just to mess with anyone cocky enough to attempt taking both classes in the same semester.

[@3nertia]

Wtf? Teachers shouldn't be so petty :/

[@davidhunternyc1]

Here's a story... I live in NYC, in a 3rd floor apartment with a fire escape. When we were isolating during Covid, I became friends with the squirrels. I kept my bedroom window open and, once I learned you can't get rabies from squirrels, I slowly became acquainted with these magnificent creatures. Over time, the squirrels became comfortable with me too. They climb up the fire escape, jump through my bedroom window, and onto my bed. I feed them all sorts of nuts, and a couple of them are so relaxed and comfortable with me that they'll rest on my belly or on top of my knee and let me pet them for long while. With a few of them, I give them kisses too. Not sure they like it but they let me torture them with love. Sometimes, my favorite, Vivian, will sleep under my bed at night. Squirrels are clean too. They smell like a stuffed plush animal you picked up from the dry cleaners. Sometimes they smell like maple syrup. I give them fresh water too and it's incredible to watch them examine the water bowl. They won't touch the water if it's dirty or they see debris of any kind. They're very picky, with their nuts and their water. This isn't simply a "feel good story." When befriending wild squirrels, they eventually disappear, no explanation given. Were they predated upon by a hawk? Hit by a car? Caught on barbed wire or ingested glass? Did they eat rat poisoning? The list of dangers are endless. I've been sorrowful lately. I haven't seen one of my favorite squirrels, Belvedere, for 3 weeks now. Belvedere's story is remarkable. He's an old squirrel. His hair is disheveled and ratty. His ears torn up by fights with other squirrels, or perhaps, from predators. I don't know how Belvedere manages to climb up my fire escape. He's slow. He can barely move. Upon the first time Belvedere came to me, he trusted me immediately, as if pleading for help. Belvedere shakes, like Parkinson's disease. Belvedere can't hold a nut in his two hands and he can not stand on his legs without falling over. I would use both my hands to cup his sides. He would lean on either hand while eating walnuts. He never once tried to bite. I pet him between his eyes and he closes them softly. Belvedere never panics and, as everyone knows, squirrels are skittish. Belvedere would come several times a day to eat. He prefers to eat nuts in their shell but his attempt to open them is feeble. I sensed his frustration. He would eventually give up and drop the nut. I had to give him shelled nuts only. 'When other squirrels are in my bedroom while I'm feeding Belvedere, they will relax and plank and watch calmly as I attend to Belvedere. They will wait their turn for food. It's remarkable to experience. I'm afraid, however, my poor Belvedere is gone. Then there's Emily. Another squirrel I only started seeing recently. She too trusted me immediately. She's blind in one eye. She's also old, moves slowly and deliberately but can run when chased by other squirrels. Because of her disability, she's bullied. I try to protect her when a healthy squirrel tries to chase her out of my bedroom. I feel like I'm blessed that both Belvedere and Emily trust me and that I'm able to make a difference in their lives. I'm astonished with what I've experienced. A couple of years ago, Vivian brought to me her new baby. She was so young and could barely walk. I can't believe that Vivian did this. Vivian left me with her baby while she went outside, for what? To build a nest? Forage for food? The baby trusted me immediately. The sad thing is that it only lasted for a day. Vivian came back after an hour or so and picked up her little muffin and left. I never saw Vivian's baby again. The next day I heard a loud cry outside my window. It was Vivian. She was on my fire escape wailing to the world. Her cries were so loud that people on the sidewalk below kept looking up wondering what the noise was. I opened my window and Vivian came in, not interested in food at all. She looked all over my apartment for her baby. I could see how visibly upset she was, as if asking me for help. I too wonder if somehow she blamed me for the disappearance of her baby. Vivian did, just one day before, entrust me with her. I was helpless too. I climbed out onto my fire escape and sat with her for an hour while she cried. I don't know if my presence helped or not. Vivian cried for 3 days. It was heartbreaking. The life of animals are remarkable. The community of squirrels that live next to my apartment have full lives. Their great themes of life are sex, death, and love, just like the rest of us. Squirrels bring me joy and heartbreak, love and pain. Happiness is not morally superior to sadness. Squirrels open my eyes to the big and beautiful and wondrous universe.

[@PazLeBon]

all great til that last paragraph lol

[@Strangedream]

Rude and unnecessary comment WTF ​@@PazLeBon

[@Strangedream]

I loved your story. I am very much like you when it comes to other living creatures. I have in the last two years had an adventure of discovery myself, but with chickens. Two summers ago I read an article about how 50 million chickens in the US alone had been culled due to bird flu. This article stated that these birds were being culled by suffocation with firemen's foam or placed in a building and the temperature turned up until they died off heatstroke. They were also using this method to cull pigs. I was horrified and had visions of breadlines and suspicious that this was going to lead to a ban on keeping chickens. I'll keep to myself why I feared this but the point is, I decided I was going to buy some chickens so I could have my own eggs in case eggs became a thing of the past or prohibitively expensive. I also wanted to rescue as many birds as I could from this horrible fate. I had never at this point ever even SEEN a real live chicken in person in my life. I was also under the ignorant assumption that eggs contained chicken embryos that we were eating (the reason I honestly was always a little icked by eggs). I learned that the eggs we buy at the store are unfertilized and that chickens can and do lay eggs even without a rooster around. I could write for days about my experience with chickens but I'll summarize so no one reading this goes to sleep: Chickens are as smart as dogs are. Chickens can learn their names. Chickens are pretty good at understanding what you want from them---not sure if it's the words I'm saying that they recognize or my gestures, facial expression or something else that they can interpret fairly accurately but I know they understand most of what I ask ask them to do or not do. Chickens have distinct personalities. I can identify them by their unique voices. They sometimes seek comfort and show affection. My chickens spend most hours of the day with me and sleep in the same room as I do and are mostly very quiet as long as I'm around. As soon as I leave, they start yelling their heads off. I'm not sure if it's like "she's gone, we can make noise!" Or if they are calling me to return. They only scream when I'm around if they want me to let them outside or if their water or food dishes are empty. But their cries aren't just making sounds--- they are communicating. With me, at least. I dont think they communicate with each other by sound except for in a very short list of circumstances. They make a certain sound when one of them finds a surprise bit of food. They make a certain sound when one of them spies what they interpret to be a possible threat to the flock. If someone other than me is in the room when an egg is laid, that chicken will sing the egg song (intended to throw off predators from the location of the recently laid egg). Chickens are NOT dirty and take a lot of care to stay clean and presentable. The only part of a chicken that tends to be dirty is their feet. They don't smell bad ever, don't intentionally eat poop or strep in it and never get food or water on their feathers. When I sit down, my favorite birds race over to hop on my lap. If I had a way to take them with me everywhere I go, I would do so. If there is a fire I will be getting my birds out along with my dog. I am confident that in that situation they would listen to me and follow me to safety. Keeping chickens has made me even more disapproving of factory farming than I already was. I hate that most people think chickens are stupid and thoughtless and dirty. The only reason store bought chicken is unsafe raw is the conditions the chicken in question was kept in before being killed. This is also the only reason to be concerned about touching chickens and getting diseases from them. None of my chickens has ever been sick or caught any of the gross diseases I see others on chicken forums online displaying and I think that is because they live inside with me and only go out to my own personal yard that I keep clean for them. Anyway I could go on and on. I loved your squirrel story and am delighted to read proof that there are other people in the world who are like me and look deeper at animals and develop love for them the same way I do. Thanks for sharing.

[@davidhunternyc1]

@@Strangedream Wow, your chicken story was great too! I've always had great respect for chickens. I didn't know that the eggs we buy in the store are unfertilized. Thank you for the education. It's amazing how much we can learn about animals, about ourselves, and about life by simply being calm, curious, and interested in the lives of animals. It's incredible too how 50 million chickens are destroyed with barely a raise of an eyebrow, lives as rich and complex and of value as our own. Every time I eat a hamburger or roast a chicken I think of my hypocrisy. I care for animals but I eat them too. I love the TV show, ALONE, where survivalists outlast each other in the wilderness with no help from the outside world. The show highlights the existential necessity of how much our own survival depends on the lives of animals. Without them, we'd cease to exist. We talked about squirrels and chickens. Not eagles. Not orcas. Not lions. We talked about animals that most people consider, "ordinary." What we've both learned is that the ordinary is extraordinary. We are blessed. Thank you.

[@PazLeBon]

@@Strangedream i actually have 2 chickens here in my living room haha One cockerel was getting picked on so is in a parrot cage a while til we sort him a space .. along with his girlfriend of course :)

[@qiae]

I think it is worth noting that our languages are, at least currently, not able to convey unlimited things, however that recognition is more of one of pedantry pairing with a lived experience of having to jerryrig language to actually express plenty of things about myself, and even then often being unable to make it work, and does not take away from my recognition and comprehension of the conceptual differentiation that he is attempting to express.

[@sloanekuria3249]

Every animal has its own voice, also true of most if not all bird calls, there are tiny personal variations that help animals recognize each other - that is, a sense of social community and a sense of self is ubiquitous in the animal kingdom. Also crows definitely have language, it's being actively studied, and hundreds of words identified. ETA: there are THREE ranges of vocalization, long range, local range, and intimate (whisper calls, coughs, subvocal pulsing, teeth chattering etc). Fascinating guest thanks you guys.

[@MysticMinis-ol3co]

Was writing essays on this topic 20 years ago in my high school vet science class. Animals are so much smarter than humans want to admit, because doing so shatters the illusion of our specialness. It’s all quite special and incredible and there’s no need for us modern (and of course very gentle apes) to cope so hard 🦧💞

[@catsandbats]

Even plants are intelligent. Look up recent botany research. It's exciting and fascinating!

[@O1OO1O1]

Humans have always dehumanized others to commit atrocities. I.e. the mass torture and slaughter of other species for food.

[@qiae]

Always nice to see a fellow fan of our local Gibbons, even when they are a tad Gutsick. And big agree, it took me years and years to wrap my head around why so many people are so dedicated to devaluing animals, and it has become one of the core drivers that led to my development of a special interest around human psychology and sociology.

[@wasabiwarabi]

I could not agree more with everything you said. We're also animals and humans need to stop being so arrogant about it.

[@3nertia]

We are unique - just not for the reasons we think heh

[@qynoi42]

I dunno. The world seems less lonely knowing we aren't unique. Being able to relate to other living beings gives a sense of connection and appreciation, even if the way they experience life isn't in a way that we can conceive of easily. Also, as others have pointed out, having a pet and really paying attention to their actions you realize that they are absolutely communicating with you. My cat has me well trained 😋

[@Aelcyx]

Pretty disappointing there isn't more discussion of farmed animals. They are remarkably clever. It's sad that this bias is so pervasive in the scientific community. I'm speaking as a scientist myself.

[@KrazyKaiser]

Dog's would speak if they could physically do it. I'm sure that *most* dogs are smart enough to understand language on at least a basic level, so if they were capable of making the noises we use for speech then they would.

[@PazLeBon]

Scooby doo spoke, and Spit

[@jasonsager4592]

Some huskies do, in a rudimentary and sing-songy sort of way, if you search for "huskies talking" or even better "huskies talking back" you will find tons of videos

[@montystar]

This has been proved in many studies. Dogs can understand way more words than most of think they do. Offcourse it depends how we teach them words and how much we talk to them etc. I think that it is us humans who dont understand how many words a single dog can understand and/or to connect a human language word to something. I think that dogs have more needs to trying to understand us than we humans have needs to understand dogs limited cabability to "say" e.g. a ball with using sounds. So many of them are also trying to use gestures and other ways to telling you the word ball. And if the owner of the dog learns to understand when dog wants to "say" ball, but many owners are clueless and starts to quessing if the dog wants to play with the ball or what about the ball. Or does the dog just want to play with you with any object etc. Maybe, if all the dogs were trained/schooled to give the same sounds and gestures to express the word ball to their owners. Now almost every single dog has to figure out their own way to express the "word" ball for their owner.

[@Shiftarus]

theres a difference between learning a language and speaking it, and associating sounds with certain situations. When you hear a car horn, you might have an idea that the person behind you is angry... but you would not think to yourself "I wonder how many honks means what, how long was that honk. I should honk back a message that I am sorry " A dog doesn't know what walking is, they just know that when that sound happens they get to go outside. The whole point of all of this.... is that they still are smart just because they communicate differently. Its OK to not use language the way we do, that doesnt mean dumb it means different.

[@KrazyKaiser]

@@Shiftarus "I should honk back an apology" I do think that though... I know it's wrong but I still think it automatically. Honking is a form of communication that we use, and there are different styles of honk to communicate different things sometimes. Usually, two short honks is considered a polite reminder, while a long loud honk is a "fuck you buddy".

[@themostselfishman]

Hyrax! I loved this discussion so much but I love them in particular.

[@heathermalone9091]

Humans getting to define language is to me like when educated white men developed the IQ test. Is it any wonder those early tests were more likely to favor other educated white men? It's an interesting challenge, to try and figure out a way to understand and quantify the language of another species when we make up the rulebook. It's very hard for us to step outside of that bias. Could we even do so, or is that a hard limit of our cognition? I like to think not but it's difficult for me to understand what a non-human linguistic framework could look like. I wouldn't be at all surprised though if there were nuanced layers of meaning beyond what we interpret. Every time we take a closer look at animals we are freshly amazed at what they can do, think and feel.

[@sloanekuria3249]

I wonder this too. I have been trying radical sympathetic somaticism, really embody and put myself inside an animal's sensory tools, food preferences, tones of voice, environment, relationships, etc. I think we're more limited by our need to think of ourselves as "better" than anything else. Animals have their own agendas and specialized tools. They touch on it in the summary around 1:06:30 we can't judge animals on how good they are at being humans, that's... well, dumb honestly.

[@Shiftarus]

I think the problem is that instead of trying to conceptualize language as we know it adapted to an animal... we should just accept the fact that animal communication is not dependent on language as we know it. I can communicate with my animals, but words and 'language' have nothing to do with it. Blinks, nods, sounds, and my actions inform us of each others feelings. I imagine that is the language of animals, but they are likely much much more proficient at it. To the point where peoples pets are convincing their owners they understand human language even.

[@RitaHakkinen]

Your videos are always full of ideas and creativity. Thank you for the inspiration!🐤🦞🟧

[@borynarzedywiec5945]

I really regret that Adam didn't ask about animals that live in huge groups, like bats and bisons. If humans developed language to navigate social relationships in big groups, would that mean that those animals could potentially come closer to language as we know it?

[@IMeMineWho]

My 🐇 is a genius. He understands relatively complex conversations such as "do you want pellets or to go out to play?" "Go eat your hay" and communicates by nose nudges, where he chooses to sit, binkies, begging, where he chooses to lay his cute little head. If he does want to be petted, he lies facing me...if he doesn't, he politely flops away from me! ❤🐇I disagree with this scientist. In motions I say "I ❤ you" and he tries to control himself until he jumps on the bed and licks me!

[@michaelzzaki]

Rabbits do so much body language! And a lot is very compatible with human communication. My favorite is how they will put their backs to us when they're insulted. It feels like projection of human feelings but I've read it really is the same meaning!

[@brandenplaisance6705]

If you think that's language then you didn't understand the concept the scientist was trying to convey. Most of what you said is you reading your rabbits body language. Animals tend to learn our body language as well and why it may seem they understand the complete sentence it's probably more key words like hay and outside that they understand due to you saying it all the time along with the body language like pointing or looking in a certain direction.

[@IMeMineWho]

@@brandenplaisance6705 Nope. I have actually asked him questions like "do you prefer this ____ or that _____ and he can tell the difference. And it is very arrogant of you to think I do not understand the gist of what the gentleman was trying to convey; I merely disagree with the level of intelligence as well as the type that he thinks animals possess. It has been scientifically proven (you can look it up) that bunnies have the intelligence level of a human 2 or 3 year old..who can obviously understand language at that level. I highly doubt that you ever owned a bunny and for that matter, I have also found intelligence in butterflies as well. Humans are so arrogant.

[@MaryamMaqdisi]

It's similar to how people think of cats too, just because they can be independent if you're not interacting with them it doesn't mean they aren't intelligent. When I did psychology in highschool and uni I couldn't believe we were taught cats are less intelligent because X, Y and Z, while I knew through experience raising cats that those were all false. It will take some time for everyone to find out how other pets are much smarter than what people give them credit for even if we've known for years lol.

[@IMeMineWho]

@@MaryamMaqdisi Amen Maryam!

[@johnjettfothergill4231]

Hello Adam! So glad to see you again after losing track of you after the disappearance of ARE, which I enjoyed watching very much. Would like to have seen that show go for another 2-3 seasons. Anyway, I picked this vid to say 'Hi' on because the other 3-4 I've watched so far all had comments numbering in the few to many thousands, so figured there was a low chance you'd see this vs here on one with only a couple hundred. Just subscribed and will continue 'catch-up' watching.

[@21700r]

Some really fascinating, and kind of alien to us, proto-language structure that exist that you didn't get into are chemical/pheromone communication & bioluminescent communication. Some deeply complex communication structures are entirely nonverbal, it's really cool

[@noam65]

Even he grossly underestimates animal communication with dogs. People are using language buttons with dogs, cats as well as other animals to communicate. We teach them to speak our language because we are too stupid to speak theirs. Saying such foolish things as their communication isn't very interesting is not the attitude that will lead to advancement in the field. I was hoping for better.

[@Strangedream]

I have to agree. I was pretty disappointed by this guy. He seems like an arrogant person that learned what he knows from reading books vs first hand experiences. Those who develop long term relationships with animals know better than what this dude is claiming. Seems his knowledge is rather surface level and cursory. I think that anyone who thinks this way isn't going to see what he doesn't want part of his personal beliefs about other species.

[@IMeMineWho]

@@Strangedream Agree with both of you.

[@Shiftarus]

all he is saying is that sound associations are not the same as human language their ability to learn language buttons is indeed a testament to their intelligence, but it just does not equate to using language in the same way as it "feels" to the humans who observe it. And thats fine, it doesnt mean they are less intelligence. You have missed the entire point

[@noam65]

@@Shiftarus I heard what he said. You're saying what you believe he meant. These are 2 different things.

[@Shiftarus]

@@noam65 I am more saying that a dog being able to communicate using buttons does not refute his claims. There have been animals trained to do this very same thing with buttons but the buttons had no sounds or words attached to them. Does this mean that those animals are communicating telepathically? Or are they intelligent and able to communicate using a system of actions -> responses. When they succeed at this action, they get the reward they had in mind. Words are secondary to this

[@aljosacebokli]

my cat has distinctly different sounds for greeting me when I let him in (he's an indoor/outdoor cat), for wanting cuddles, for wanting food and for wanting to be let out. Sometimes it seems he is having full blown conversations with me. And these are so different between each other I'm easily able to observe it from one encounter to the next without thinking I'm imagining things.

[@MelissaThompson432]

My cats did this, and they approximated English words. "Out" for "out," "now" for "feed me," "hand" for "pet me," "ma, mama" for me. And if "now" didn't work, they said "ung," for "hungry." They used other words, but I can't think of them right now. They definitely used those sounds because they knew what I used those sounds to mean.

[@mac23806]

I think i could listen to this guy for hours its so fascinating all this

[@Boredom_Incarnate]

"Just because something is complex doesn't mean there's a lot of information in it" Please, someone tell my manager this. Hour-long meetings could be an email.

[@PazLeBon]

Complex and Complicated might be mixe dup

[@3nertia]

The inverse is also true though ...

[@SuperLemonAdam]

I was lucky to see you in Denver a few years ago, had a great time! Would love to see you in Las Vegas now! Any plans? Knowing my luck I just missed you in LV but hoping you'll be back! Cheers!

[@twistedtales9710]

I'm pretty sure that definition of language excludes every language it exists. I'm pretty sure every language has limits on the concepts it can convey atleast effectively I'm pretty sure it's a limited infinity, though.

[@lowbudgetmic]

Human consciousness is the most dangerous tool in the solar system 🥷😎🌎

[@itsROMPERS...]

What people get wrong about dogs and other animals (IMHO), is that we assume that their inner experience is like ours. For instance, they obviously feel affinity for specific people, but is it like what we experience as "love"? There's no reason to really think so, except we like it that way. Consider food: humans crave variety, but do did even think of food that way? Many people are extremely focused on giving their dogs a good food experience in a human sense. But many dogs have been fed the exact same thing every day their whole lives and there's no indication they care If you give them different foods they like it, but they seem to like everything that they can possibly eat the same. I tried giving my dog different flavors of kibble and she didn't seem to care at all. So they are thinking about the world they encounter, and they have different reactions to different things, but is it like us? Otoh, many people seem to think their dogs don't feel bored of abandoned so they leave them alone all day while they go to work. I think this is cruel, and i don't think dogs attach to other dogs like they do to humans, so getting another dog doesn't necessarily help. Dogs can be seeing the world through a certain kind of consciousness, but assuming their experience is analogous to ours is without support.

Many human songs essentially say , "Come mate with me", too...

[@thirstfast1025]

Don't get me wrong, I enjoyed this thoroughly, but 3 things I was a little surprised I didn't hear about during this were; corvids, the correlation between us cooking our food, growing our brains and developing languages, and Zipf.

[@joshs3916]

Great guest

[@stevensiwinski]

Love the shows! Thanks Adam!

[@BenDjinn]

Spitting viper evolved to communicate with humans. And it has the same message as the only stone to have an aura, uranium.

[@anthonydelfino6171]

I couldn't help but think as listening to him, the way various animals communicate is a lot like how we produce music. And possibly both primitive music may have predated language? And also might be why we are so hardwired to enjoy music...?

[@sevensongs]

I'm curious about the difference between spoken language and the whistling languages humans have. The whistles have surprisingly complex meanings in whistling languages. It seems likely to me that there is more possibility for complexity than discussed here.

[@Ewr42]

Etymology nerd made a bird language and even a creole with his dolphin language, but for actual languages there's Daniel Everett that studied amazon peoples that whistle to communicate covertly whilst hunting in the forest, there's also silbo But etymologynerd might be the source of info you'd be most interested in, we could definitely make a whistled language that can convey more stuff than vocalized sounds could

[@Ewr42]

There's probably a way to whistle ithkul and it'd probably be more intuitive than trying to speak it, but if i were to learn a whistled language I'd probably go for whistled toki pona lol

[@RedAngelSophia]

Even with human languages, it can be messy (and sometimes arbitrary) to determine when two things are deemed separate words versus separate parts of the same word. For example, I honestly cannot tell you why it is “cannot” and not “can not”.

[@TacticalPew]

Animals be like, "why use many words when few meow meow do trick?"

[@bobspldbckwrds]

Loved the hyrax howl

[@PazLeBon]

Hey even my box fish shows that communication I own ducks, chickens, a pig, goats,, turkeys etc and feel the same about most. a few not quite so much, the less domesticated guinea fowl for example. :)

[@rafavi01]

What makes human language language ? generative procedure for discrete infinity - do any other animals exhibit it? No. Why? Because their biology doesn't have this faculty. This could be false but this assertion is what makes us the most like animals - if it turns out all animals have a language capacity but we are just the only ones to do what we do with it then we would be some kind of supernatural creature - birds either fly because they have an innate physiology for flight or because they are angels. Why we believe otherwise for humans is so strange.

[@kearstinnekenerson6676]

MAs have also been known to have cultural differences like the mountain macaque in Japan, like to hit up the Hot Springs

[@kated3165]

Dolphins each have their own very specific vocal signature which they exchange the moment they encounter a stranger, and they use each other's vocal signatures when talking amongst themselves to address a specific individual... This guy REALLY needs to spend a whole lot more time talking to marine biologists who study cetaceans and reading their studies!

[@rgonzalez7807]

I’m a linguist and normally don’t insert myself in this topic because people get really emotional about animals, but due to the nature of this show, I’m going to here. There’s an important distinction between communication and language. Based on the definition of language (Hockett’s being the one that is widely accepted), animals do not have language. They do have communication. This isn’t to say that certain animals aren’t smart as fuck. Octopuses very well might be sapient, but we’ll never know because they don’t have language to communicate abstract concepts such as that. Only humans are shown to have language as far as we know. Communication and language are not interchangeable terms. They are, unfortunately, used that way in this video.

[@ggoddkkiller1342]

My cocker often comes to my door and says things like 'I'm hungry, isn't it food time?', when i refuse she sometimes insists like 'It is food time, i'm sure of it.' and wouldn't go. If somebody is eating in kitchen and not giving her any she comes to my room and says 'They are eating something, come!' simply because she knows i would give her. When they scold her she again comes to my room and complains about it like 'They scolded me for nothing!', the funny part if she is really guilty she doesn't do it perhaps because she knows i would scold her too. And ofc she does same for walking out that she comes to my room and starts making 'meaningful looks' and runs to the door if i follow her. That's it she has 4 different sentences, food, walk and more food and ofc getting spoiled between them. I can tell which one instantly as she acts differently, if scolded she acts like physically hurt. If it is food she is aggressive like 'Common, i'm starving here.' If somebody else eating she is hectic like 'Hurry, they are eating up everything!', if it is walk she sits at walk way well-behaving and wouldn't enter the room as her target is front door anyway. Sure, their understanding of world is much smaller than ours but they can still communicate easily. However they don't do it to everybody, for example she only does this to me in my family perhaps because i'm the only one understanding it..

[@Shiftarus]

Body language, actions,emotions let you two communicate perfectly so words and language are not needed for that kind of connection. If words did not exist you two would still be in perfect sync! The only reason you needed language was to explain to other people. Animals are amazing (Humans too!)

[@ggoddkkiller1342]

@@Shiftarus It is really amazing and beautiful, i wish everybody could experienced it. One day i came home and she began hugging and telling like 'They scolded me while you were away' while making hurt expression. Ofc i questioned my family about what happened. They were quite surprised asking how did i know before they said anything about it. I was like she told me haha.

[@MelissaThompson432]

Interesting that the title says "animals can talk," but the whole video is "it's not REALLY talking...." The thing is, if someone uses a specific vocalization consistently to refer to one thing and it's always that thing, that's communication. To me, that's talking. It may not be English, but it is a word, because it's a vocalization with a specific, assigned meaning.

[@meercatt]

Had to leave to go listen to animal I have never even heard of 😂❤

[@nyarparablepsis872]

I am totally playing into the complaints about linguists being upset, but yeah... Maybe some light background reading on language and, more importantly, zoosemiotics, may be useful for the good zoologist in the future. Maybe Henrich on WEIRD as well.

[@scribslayer]

I like the Mediterranean people who whistle. They live on steep hills far apart and whistling is a lot easier than yelling

[@tirsden]

I used to live in Australia, where in the outback and semi-outback regions it was common to hear someone call "Coooooeeee!" across the landscape. Travels well and hard to miss.

[@Ewr42]

There's the spanish silbo language and Daniel Everett has studied amazon peoples that whistle their language too, it's also useful for covert communication whilst hunting in the forest

[@reynata8088]

Hmm... Dr. Arik seem to say that bird songs are simple things and that the notes themselves mean nothing. But lets isolate that for a second. Music like classical or jazz definitely do communicate complex concepts. A piece can be titled "Summer" and those that enjoy it would talk about how the melodies convey a certain feeling and time, yet a layperson may just hear them as "pretty sounds". Musicians can read where their band mates are going by what they are playing spontaneously.... because they share a "vocabulary". I also think about tribal music. In this perspective, I don't think Dr. Arik has explored his interpretation deeply enough in the dialogue.

[@grindstoneii]

Fun fact!! Hyraxes are the closest living relative to elephants!

[@azoriusherald]

The video title: Humans aren’t that special. The guest: “words are a strange thing about humans. The way we use words is very very very unique.” Kidding aside though, very interesting discussion.

[@kearstinnekenerson6676]

Honestly I don’t know why we are so determined to feel special why can’t things just be special because they exist

[@ethandarcy5940]

I like to think that extra-complex human language evolved out of cooking. But maybe toolmaking. You have to explain how to do something, it may take a lot of words with some tricky connections.

[@Ewr42]

There's many books and lectures about how cooking made us humans by PhD neuroscientist Suzana Herculano-Houzel, which besides being an amazing science communicator also discovered a zero budget way to count neural cells with dish soap and a blender so she could debunk the 100bi neurons myth, figuring out that the actual number of neurons in the human brain is around 86bi (and many more glyal/white matter cells). But both toolmaking and cooking came way before proto languages, BUT evidence is scarce for the early development of languages and other human species such as Neanderthals had the brain structures associated with complex calls/language capabilities. Toolmaking helped a bit, but cooking was THE thing that made our brain sizes increase exponentially, allowing for the development of complex, energy demanding brain structures that we couldn't have afforded otherwise. You'll fall in love with her work, truly one of the most underrated neuroscientist/science communicator out there

[@trenomas1]

Not a single mention of corvids. Odin is displeased. 😔

[@tonyritter4919]

Pee, scat, and glad excretions are language left behind, on to of scratching and scraping. On top of posturing and vocalization. animal language IS more complex. In the Alex instance, it's not that parrots don't speak in the wild, but that a child that is adopted, interculture, will adopt their adoptive cultures language when isolated from their native language. Dr. Pepperbergs research was revolutionary, don't get me wrong, but it wasn't so far off from Dr. Temple Grandons. I don't think we need to humanize animals, but rather animism humans. We can take a lot of simplifying social and political lessons from them.

[@keeshy]

Curious if he knows about the UCSD study on dogs using buttons to communicate with us?

[@madwrz]

"I've gotten many a good massage to whale conversation" lmao

[@stella4936]

Animals really said “why waste time say lot word when few do trick”

[@mikhaelbartocci2153]

Its kinda confusing using the word “animals” to refer to the “set of all animals except humans”. Also referring to humans as monkeys in the beginning, humans are great apes.

[@Shiftarus]

in 99.99% of situations where the word animals is used.... that is the connotation.

[@solarkiri]

apes are a subset of monkeys.

[@chabnormal]

I've always said Cetaceans are the most intelligent species. Mammals' predators are on the land.

[@jackalope839]

In fairness we were domesticated by grasses. So we are a bit special.

[@ericarichardson2983]

So the key difference to language is gatekeeping? Are humans gatekeeping the designation of “language” to communication that allows for gatekeeping?😂

[@Shiftarus]

Well... yes. The entire point is that indeed these animals are all capable of communication and intelligence, but we should avoid trying to assign our own specific human version onto them. If we truly want to communicate as effectively as possible with the animals... that matters. It seems many people here are just defensive and angry that someone would claim their communication is different. Why does it being different mean worse to you?

[@priyanshugoel3030]

One of the guys in this comment section has verbatim same comment on two different videos of yours. The topic is relevant to the videos, but something feels off about it. Found out about it when i saw, a long story type comment on this video.

[@deansmits006]

With all due respect, i need this guy voicing animated features. He's got a perfect voice specific characters.

[@kossnfx]

This guy says animals don't have words, yet I just saw another expert discuss how elephants have names for each other, so this sounds like a bit more of a semantic issue than a practical one.

[@Shiftarus]

You are absolutely right. Be semantics are relevant when we are talking about words and communication... right? The distinction still exists and its something that is worth understanding if we want to truly communicate with and understand animals as best as we can. This is not a takedown of animals abilities it is meant to bridge a gap between us and them.

[@Ewr42]

Nouns don't need to be words Words as a unit of language is a human thing to do, and defining a symbol for names as a word is a human centric linguistic take For some animals it's chemicals, smells, faces, feces, dances.. Even if it's vocalized sounds it isn't a word, it's a name There's a much more elaborate underpinning behind the concept of a word, whilst names are just any symbols used to reference someone Most symbols humans use, not just for names but all communication, are words, so we think of communication symbols as being intrinsically a word, but that's not a fundamental truth, just an statistical one when observed through a human centric lens.

[@MintyFarts]

@15:00 and that's how I evolved to exist in a constant state of social anxiety

[@grandork180]

Those whales need to copyright that banger.

[@ruthray3899]

How do we know how much information is contained in a language we don't speak or understand? We are such jerks.

[@IMeMineWho]

Amen. He is hypothesizing. How could he possibly know? If you think on it, he is being illogical.

[@Ewr42]

Imagine analysing ithkul when you only speak toki pona We don't even grasp the abstract concepts behind their communication rules and yet keep trying to enforce our logical axioms as if they were objective truths instead of just the best model for what we need it for

[@madestmadhatter]

I think you're wrong about everyone wanting their dogs to talk, and not in the old "ha ha, people don't want their dogs talking about the freaky stuff they do in bed" way. People seem to actively resent the idea that animals can think, and actively rebel against the idea that animals can be sentient. When I was a kid, tool use was the sign of true intelligence, it's what seperates us from the animals, then it was the mirror test, then it was the ability to comprehend language, not abstract, just comprehend water is water, and now we demand they meet us in our language and abstract upon those ideas to construct something new, and if they can't use our language jn that way they aren't truly intelligent. Every time animals have met our definition of intelligence, has dared to tread on our holy ground, we furiously redefined it and pushed them back down. Humans want to be special, we don't want to share the lime light, and it's not just "oh we need this justification so we can keep treating these lesser beigns the way we have", they want us to be better than them so they can flaunt how morally superior they are. People want animals as blank slates to project their beliefs on, something seperate that they can be superior to, so when that status is threatened they raise the bar. And I know I'm being very judgey, but I've watched so many documentaries, and read so many papers, where the scientists involved wore their biases in their sleeves, and you can tell that they're starting from "animals can't be as smart as people" and then went about trying to prove that prwmise, rather than disprove the premise that animals are sentient. I know it sounds the same, but it's not

[@eduardobinks]

So animals have ascents? That explain why in portuguese dogs bark like "au au" and in english it is "woof woof"

[@Ewr42]

Etymology nerd 100% has a video on that, but it's not accents I think it's about how hispanic chickens say kikiriki instead of cock-a-doodle-do (or cocoricó)

[@patrickr9416]

Has this doctor not heard of “How Stella Learned to Talk” ? Look it up. This dog not only learned words but was able to eventually create short, novel sentences, paralleling how young children develop basic language skills.

[@pirahna]

Maybe humans developed complex, verbal language for the same reason that most other animal species evolve extravagant characteristics; good ol' sexual selection.

[@shaunsmith9013]

One. How dare no one talk about crows and possible generational knowledge. Two. I am sure all other animals think we never shut the F up 😅

[@kimadams8757]

Humans howl by yodelling. Does the same thing

[@andybond5002]

Animals talk too, but they are not using language...if I define stupid as genius then you are a genius, it's just a matter of definition

[@deecook7437]

Do animals have like different accents. Like British, Australian, American South, the Bonx, Jerry. Lol😂😂. For real though

[@isaacnewton9021]

Corvids like crows show evidence of regional dialects iirc? At least in terms of what types of calls they make and under what context differing based on region. So for all we know those regional modifications to calls are somewhere in that grey area between 'different accent' and 'different language' that exists in humans too, yeah.

[@ryanpowell8354]

I don't agree that our brains evolved for manipulative purposes that would seem incidental. Everything we have done over the course of human history is to make things easier and more time efficient. Where that stems from. Unless he means manipulation if matter or body parts maybe.

[@0x_Proxxy]

i couldnt find a slowed down recording of a dolphin that sounded like a wolf...

[@livthedream5885]

Humans don’t really have a lot to say, either. Just like to say a whole lot of it, with enormous self importance. I’d like to see you interview Dr.Marc Bekoff on animal sentience and language. Language is just a symbol system, it need not be “limitless” to qualify.

[@Shiftarus]

I agree, which is why I find it odd that so many people are offended at the notion animals dont use language the same way as humans. Expecting them too and considering it the "superior" way to communicate is really just inflating our own importance and intelligence.

[@livthedream5885]

@@Shiftarus people are offended, I think, by the implication that other animals can “only” use their language in the most reductive, instinctual service. It’s my contention that other animals use language in a manner quite similar to ours, as a symbol system and tool to communicate not only matters crucial to survival, but to share emotions. Norris and Cacciopo have articles on social cognition in other animals, especially primates, and how they map onto cortical structures previously dedicated to more primitive tasks, such as in humans. Frank de Waal, Marc Bekoff, and Dr. Panskepp are some other biologists in animal cognition you may find refreshing to read.

[@UltimaEnigma]

💚

[@andreav2175]

❤

[@justinsoutherland9721]

I'M SORRY FOR YOUR LOSS!!!😂

[@spacebees86]

"What colour am I?"

[@stunningkruger]

man gave a name to all the a name alls

[@3nertia]

Yes but animals likely can't think about thinking ...

[@Kazman2007]

Yes, but can animals have crippling anxiety and clinical depression at the same time? I think not.

[@catsandbats]

Yes they can. Mice are specifically bred for it for lab resesrch.

[@skellymom]

Oh yes they do! Working in veterinary shelter med and ER med I've see it ALL the time! They also become depressed when their humans are as well. This is why training is so crucial at puppyhood to help develop good listening and communication skills between pets and owners. And, enrichment in animal study labs, zoos, shelters, rescues with the rate of animals being able to acclimate to be adopted from shelters higher when not just their physical health and mental health is addressed. Finally, working animals certainly show anxiety/depression: police dogs, bomb sniffing animals, and ESPECIALLY search and rescue dogs...most notably the dogs studied during the search for survivors weeks/months after 9/11 at Ground Zero.

[@fabiannomada2724]

But can they,gamble away their hard earned money?

[@NoWay1969]

I want a Neuralink for dogs. I don't expect much beyond "hungry," "poop," "walk," and "I'm angry you cut my balls off," but I'm good with that. People anthropomorphize their dogs now, just imagine if they had a brain implant and an AI doggy voice.

[@arestelle]

who needs brain implants - have you heard of fluent pet buttons? kzbin.info/www/bejne/qZDVlXmPfMyajtk

[@James-bv2co]

F those other planets!

[@kearstinnekenerson6676]

Honestly want to know if they looked into rats elephants corvids specifically New Caledonian corvids who have been shown making and using their own tools and working in groups to get something and have show self and other awareness

[@AtypicalPaul]

Language is just a way to lie. body language and actions will tell the truth more often.

[@Shiftarus]

You can lie with body language too, its a very usefull thing to be able to do as an animal. We really have just perfected it with language and taken it to the maximum