We Uncovered EVERY Secret About Paradox Pokémon

[@BirdKeeperToby]

It's good to be back! Support amazing up-and-comers like Espy without whom I could not have mad this video: www.youtube.com/@EspyJuju

[@therubyminecart5291]

Where the heck did you get that Scarlet and Violet books?

[@tobyford76]

Wait this comment is 10 hours old but the video is only been put an hour? Toby please stop messing with time. Dialga would not be pleased.

[@konikonitrainerwill5969]

Do you think that Arven was always going to exist as part of Turo and Sada's timestreams? If so, would that mean that Mabosstiff was always going to get injured and healed by the Herba Mysticas, and the player always had to do all 3 storylines so they could go to Area Zero and see the AI version be sent back/forward in time so that the real professors could do whatever it is they're doing after the Paradise Protection Protocol gets beaten and the Paradox Dragon goes into its battle form for the second time in game (that the character sees)?

[@tristanmartinez9326]

Thanks can’t wait to what you’ve cooked up

[@poke_lore]

After everything you said about the start and never ending cycle of the paradox, does that context relate to the gaint symbol where iron valiant or roaring moon reside as a warning to this cycle. When I saw this I always thought that the pokemon themselves were following this path create the symbol. What are your thoughts

[@mechacasey]

I don't know if this has been realized yet, but AI Sada/Turo describes the paradox pokémon as major threats to the ecosystem. Zygarde's main schtick is that it's the ruler of the ecosystem and keeps it in check. The third paldean legendary being a Zygarde counterpart makes even more sense with this in mind

[@BBWahoo]

Sir, I'm going to have you arrested because you keep getting my mind blown without my consent 🤯

[@genndybyrd]

That was the line I read during my plythrough that had me go “waaaaaait a minutes I remember that from Zygardes flavor txt”

[@officersoulknight6321]

And Zygarde’s whole look is hexagons! And boy do we see a lot of those in reference to tera

[@dracosmith7781]

@@officersoulknight6321 paldean zygarde

[@_ZeroSum_]

Zygarde is the natural, earthly counterpart to the Disk pokémon, then. It's even ground type! It uses its powers solely to maintain what exists, while the disk pokémon uses its power to create imbalances. Zygarde doesn't have a direct power to alter pokémon like other legendaries, with mega evolutions coming about as a byproduct of the ultimate weapon exploiting the Kalos legendaries' power. Alternatively, the disk pokémon's terastalizing is explicitly altering pokémon in a way which is unnatural, completely made up

[@Xuphilo_CHSM]

9:25 Actually, Cyclizar has four toes, it just keeps its middle two held together. In the exact same way Koraidon does when running on all fours. So this is most likely the foot of a Koraidon, not some different ancient Cyclizar.

[@sarcasm-aplenty]

Webbing does show up in fossils so it could just be an unrelated creature

[@dallasjhaws]

@@sarcasm-aplenty yeah but the fossil was of a footprint impression, not the actual foot. If the toes were held together, it would look the same whether it was Cyclizar or Koraidon

[@Xuphilo_CHSM]

@@sarcasm-aplenty Koraidon only has webbing between its middle two toes, which would be held together on the fossil.

[@tamacullen]

^this

[@sarcasm-aplenty]

@@Xuphilo_CHSM 'held together?' still looks fake af to me, but idc either way

[@SMon42]

10:30 but delibird isn't version exclusive, and Violet has Iron Present. As another commenter mentioned, I think it's less "version exclusive pokemon don't exist in that world" and more "Version exclusive pokemon don't live in that version of the region" Also, both versions have Donphan and the Ralts line.

[@cheesepufss]

iron bundle. aslo, both versions have their own donphan paradox pokemon.

[@robertbreschard3493]

The Pokémon are so true

[@fencerderio9814]

Both versions also have the Volcarona line along with the respective Paradox variants.

[@MrMoom08]

Also migration is a thing, the scarlet paradoxes could’ve just moved away from paldea before they evolved into their modern counterparts and the violet paradoxes have their modern counterparts move to paldea before evolving

[@nightowl7261]

Pokemon Azurite has Iron Burrito

[@lumiosepost]

LOVED this! Felt like a movie-and y’all are definitely on top of it imo! Perhaps the circle/ring design on the third legend, and it being a disk (a circle) is a reference to its creations being a paradox-an endless and beginning-less loop or circle. Again, amazing video, you guys!

[@komi___]

If it's a serpent then could be an Ouroboros.

[@GaarasBFF0911]

Sounds like Area Zero is like a 'City of Gold'. An imaginary place that the conquistadors looked for in the 'New world'. A search for riches and treasures. I wonder if the DLC will expand on the lore 😁

[@skygoomysteatime3967]

It's giving Made in Abyss

[@wiseguy1512]

Just call it El Dorado we know what you’re talking about. Also wasn’t El Dorado theorized in South America.

[@jarkiplier]

I really don't mind what they do with DLC or area zero but I just desperately want a big blowout of what's been building up in pokemon lore over the last decade. Primal Energy has been developed through all of the gimmicks and inter dimensional/time travel has been developed by ultra beats and paradox pokemon, and also by the many 'fallers' like Annabelle or Ingo. A sort of culmination of all these events in generation 10 would be great. Seeing many characters like looker return in a big postgame that has the truth of primal energy finally revealed to us and maybe a sort of pokemon thats a manifestation of all of it, something beyond Arceus, would be a fantastic way to cap it off.

[@GustavoJua15]

I theorize there's something special about the core of PokéEarth. Given the primal energy overflowed when the meteor hit Hoenn. And then there's Zygarde with its Core Enforcer. It might be what's drawing the space Pokemon to Earth like how the primal energy in Hoenn drew Groudon and Kyogre to Sootopolis.

[@BBWahoo]

I like your imaginations, I know it's easy to be pessimistic and say it'll be another rainbow rocket, but a part of me sincerely hope something along those lines truly happens and its legitimately grandiose

[@rapidLupine7687]

I feel like they're building up towards gen 10, there is this theory about the 3rd dragon legendaries since Zygarde as being ingredients of the Arceus in alchemy and being part of a set of which the Disk pokemon would be the last, could lead to some kind of big story in GEN 10, especially since they don't have any backstory besides being a pokemon from somewhere else (Frequently from beyond the planet).

[@wills3210]

For real, all the build up in my last 10 years of obsessively playing Pokémon, I need for there to be something that just blows everything out of the water, because I have so many questions and I think we deserve to see how everything ties together

[@shdowsprytes]

I sure hope that's really what the build up is for, especially since generation 10 will be happening close to the 30 year mark :"D!

[@SJrad]

19:55 I personally would take this with a grain of salt. The game never specified how they left. They could simply just left like how a parent leaves their spouse and child irl. Yeah they could have left through the Time Machine but you would think that would have been mentioned. also it technically doesn’t say that arven’s other parent is turo/sada but my headcanon is that they are.

[@ericwilson8867]

I think it can be inferred that Sada and Turo are the parents since you see them in the other version. But it doesn't say how they left so I agree with that

[@drm726]

@@ericwilson8867 Where do we see that? Just curious if there is something I missed

[@ericwilson8867]

@@drm726 it’s in one of the journals in the labs. I think station 3 or 4?

[@Nekoszowa]

Sada is Arven's mom in Scarlet, Turo is his dad in Violet, they are the same people who leave the marriage in each version. The reason to leave could be the professor's obsession with the respective books- Sada left in Violet because Turo was obsessed and most likely neglected family matters and personal life, Turo left in Scarlet for the same reason.

[@-libertyprimev1-902]

​@@Nekoszowa haven't made it that far in the video yet, but if they both are the parents then how would there be an Arven in both timelines/universes? Unless he himself is a Paradox and/or a creation of the machine?

[@Pokeferlax]

I can’t watch this yet because I haven’t completed the games and don’t want spoilers haha, but just wanted to show support here! Espy is one of the best dudes I know, so seeing him in this collab is so exciting! His content deserves so much attention, so please go and check him out! I’m looking forward to watching this video properly in the future! 😄

[@puppies3330]

omg you’re here!

[@lawznwdsc]

Wasn't expecting you here

[@EspyJuju]

Thank you so much Ferlax! You're too kind!

[@Vort3Xpool]

I watch you almost every day. Thanks so much for your videos there are great.

[@wobblsobble]

poke ferlax! ive been subbed to you for a while and ur anime vids are top tier!

[@ericwilson8867]

I think it's quite interesting what Paradox Pokemon are. I would've loved for them to to be actual ancestors/descandents allowing to speculate about the Pokemon evolution even more but I also like the idea of remaining a paradox, like you've said "they exist simply because they exist". They'd kinda be like the Disc Legend thinking them up, and then implanting these ideas into the minds of people for it to justify making them? Maybe paradoxes are like bait to make people look for it. Makes me wonder if it's just a Pokemon wanting to be freed or if it's got some malicous intent. I hope that there's some connection to Zygarde. It is the Pokemon supposed to maintain balance after all, maybe it's trying to stop the Disc Legendary from wreaking some havoc

[@azuroslazuli6948]

I'm dead convinced the Disk Legendary is evil. The professors were driven insane by it because it wanted them to "build paradise" and let it into the world. That's why when you fight the AI, they're like "I can't control it, please stop me." That's what happened to the REAL professors too. It's foreshadowing.

[@MrSasukeSusanoo]

well if you see the mini eyes in the tera crowns, they definitely look like, angry at least, or with a malicious look

[@blackJJseventeen]

Another potential mystery about Area Zero: Why are there so many moth down there? Venomoth, Frosmoth and Volcarona with a Paradox Version in both games. I bet Dustox would be there, but they didn't want to waste five Pokedex slots for it.

[@Nekoszowa]

Crystals are shiny, shiny means light, light means lamp, thus area zero = moths

[@TheCosmicJester01]

@Satanae002 this actually makes sense lol.

[@ProfessorMor]

With the burned tower incident, I think that it's not far fetched they know about the legendary beasts. Sure the burned tower incident was 150 years ago, but that was 25+ years ago meaning it happened closer to 180 years ago and it could easily be that the story only changes it's years every 50 years or so because "this happened 150 years ago" sounds better than "this happened 168 years ago". I don't think it's far fetched that the burned tower incident happened just before the expedition, and Heath and/or his artist saw the blurry photos of the beasts in the newspaper and the beasts were on their minds when creating their imaginary pokemon.

[@UnCasualConversation]

29:58 I can not believe you guys put this together so well. The Occulture Magazines existence has always been my main issue with the Paradox pokemon truly being descendants or ancestors to Present day pokemon and seeing that brought up here makes me so happy. But you guys pushed it so much farther and that's absolutely wonderful thank you for this, it's honestly great and I'm so happy to have you back.

[@dinogolfer]

That theory of the legendary being 'Reflective' is looking good right now. Reflecting the thoughts of people to create real Pokemon in this time loop.

[@konikonitrainerwill5969]

Scarlet and Violet are a slightly weirder than usual Doctor Who episode as a Pokemon game and it is brilliant.

[@evanminton8315]

Agreed.

[@lilpetz500]

I really need to watch the entirety of Dr Who. My Mum hated it growing up for some reason, so I never watched it, but with how much I enjoyed the SV plot line, I'd probably love it.

[@EspyJuju]

Thank you so much for having me on Toby! It was super great to get to work with you on this theory! 😁

[@BirdKeeperToby]

You're so welcome thanks for coming and hanging out :D

[@EspyJuju]

@@BirdKeeperToby anytime! Be back again! 😉

[@aaronolson6736]

Yeah that's a pretty neatly put together way for this to happen. Bringing up the fact that The Swords of Justice seem to have just appeared one day also brings this up, nothing has ever given so much as a time period as to when they first intervened. The same unknown origin can be seen with the Twin Wolves of Galar, in both instances we have protectors being born. Similarly we have The Legendary Beasts who having died protecting Pokemon were reborn as we now know them, its possibly all of these Legendary Pokemon were resurrected or at least transformed into their current forms.

[@kallyle6611]

29:49 So, in other words, this third legendary basically ruined Arven’s life in order to free itself? I really hope Arven tries to get revenge on it then instead of being entirely absent from the conflict. In fact, I can see Arven taking one of two paths after learning what the third legendary was trying to do *and* that it’s responsible for both of his parents being gone: 1. Arven tries to not only sabotage the the third legendary’s escape plans, but tries to bury it deeper down where it’s trapped out of sheer spite. 2. Arven doesn’t interfere with the third legendary coming back into reality, but *does* essentially force it to attempt at creating a more loving version of his parents and give him his ideal life. Of course, Arven would completely ignoring its own feelings and possibly uncomfortable limitations because Arven believes it owes him for messing up his life. In either scenario, we end up having to talk Arven out of his toxic and spiteful behavior against the third legendary. I just really want Arven to get emotional about the third legendary if this theory end up being accurate. I mean, it’s escape practically requires Arven’s suffering; I don’t think anyone in such a situation would be capable of neutrality towards such a fact. Heck, have Arven end up despising AZ as well. Poor kid has every right to be angry.

[@adammorin2955]

Imagine if az comes back and talks to arven trying to talk him out of getting revenge

[@v.v365]

I feel like Pokémon being “version exclusive” isn’t a good argument for lore based discussion because I think all Pokémon exist or have the capability of existing in every Pokémon game’s world, it’s just the limitations of coding so many characters into a game that prevents game freak from giving us all Pokémon in every game. So I believe Hydreigon exists within the world of Violet, just not anywhere within the Paldea region, and Hydreigon exists in the Paldea region in Scarlet because the games are parallel worlds with very similar mechanics governing them, just different events happening throughout.

[@ericwilson8867]

I don't think there's a lore reason to version exclusives, just that it was to encourage trading back in Red and Blue and it's just a remanent that's stuck around to today

[@Shinntoku]

I would go as far as to argue that Hydreigon does exist in Violet, you just don't run into them. They're still in the dex after all, and it's pretty common for trainers to have version exclusives even if you can't catch them

[@Bezaliel13]

@@ericwilson8867 Right? THEY WERE COMPARED TO THOSE POKEMON IN THE GAME.

[@mightyandray7260]

Yeah, because dreepy are a violet exclusive but you can see a trainer with dreepy in scarlet. But it is pretty notable that the pseudo legendary paradox Pokémon are version exclusives for the other game. Not for lore reasons just... notable.

[@UnCasualConversation]

@@ericwilson8867 Pokemon multiverse theory is the explanation to version exclusives, each individual copy of a pokemon game is it's own universe. That's why we have individual stories and so many different players becoming champion at the same times with different teams and the like.

[@zarynaryaz]

I LOVE this theory! Just a quick addition ... Khu teased we already have seen Paradox Pokemon, which leads me to believe that he was talking about AZ's Floette. Would also make sense, since Terra Crystals and Mega Evolution is all about infinity energy, which, we can now definetly say, ia all about changing the Pokemons DNA. Not to mention, that AZ's ultimate weapon itself is also crystalized, connecting it even further to the third mysterious legendary, who resides in Area Zero and sure was hit by the weapon (even though the crater may be older than the ultimate weapon, the energy blast could still have hit the inside of the crater). I would also add that Geeta may is part of the legendary third Pokemon, trying to get out of the said dimension by getting more people to use the Terraorbs (also not using her team to its full potential, against potential champions, to achieve the goal of getting more champions or, in her words, more capable trainers. Would also explain why Nemona got her hands on the Terraorb for the protag so quickly). Not to mention that her ace is only found in Area Zero (except for the pre-evo) which also seems to be part of this crystalized power. Just like a Pokemon, only created for Geeta, to get out of the crater and become the eyes of the legendary, to fulfill its goal. Well, can't wait for the DLC. Hope your theory comes true. It's the best and most logical I've heard so far~ 👍

[@radio_liminoid]

29:58 I love you, you make me happy. And thanks for introducing me to Espy Juju. I love how you support and boost up other creators. You rock

[@auciel9911]

29:58 your videos are such great companions to playing through these games and all your time and comprehensive research towards them is more than appreciated

[@SponsorNo1]

29:58 I haven't kept up with your content for a while, Toby. Personal life getting in the way of that. But I did have a bit of free time and caught this. You still got it man, you still got it! Brilliant video!

[@Greyshadow511]

We never got the full story behind x and y's lore and there were so many questions I still wanted to know the answer to by the end of that generation. Complete Zygarde being in Alola just brought even more questions. I'm so excited if we really do get some more info on the Kalos war. 29:58

[@evanminton8315]

The Zygarde thing seemed so out of place in Sun and Moon. I seriously think Pokémon Z was supposed to be a thing but was scrapped because Game Freak needed time to make ORAS and prepare for Gen 7. But yeah, X & Y felt rather incomplete as much as I love those games. It’d be great for this video’s fan theory to be 100% true to bring everything back full circle.

[@honeyvedant5732]

​@@evanminton8315 there was a reason for that ... Zygrade appears in Alola to prevent Necrozama From taking all of the light ... It's kinda bad that we never got A dlc in Sun and moon ... Instead a New game ... Which Made people hate sun and moon hate more 🙂... It's connected with manga

[@sergioricardosantosdoamara5452]

My personal theory is that Zygarde is the defender of the echosystem in the planet, not only in Kalos or Alola, then there are countless of cells all over the planet and maybe a few cores in each region to keep an eye in the echosystem and transform if needed.

[@DustyGogoat]

This was epic. A beautiful movie encapsulating all the theories that have been buzzing in our heads since November ✨

[@BirdKeeperToby]

Thanks mate :D I tell ya I've been sitting on this wahtincg all your videos like buzzing like "You're so So close"

[@DustyGogoat]

@@BirdKeeperToby you’ve connected all the puzzle pieces! And I’m reinvested in the Zygarde theory now! 😜

[@Confuzledish]

29:58 Honestly? This is insane. Drawing such deep lore from Pokemon is mind boggling because when I play, I just see a very simple story.

[@ceruledge7934]

I love that they are past and future forms but I like the theory that they are not real and a just person's imaginations

[@shootingstar175]

Same. I like to think they are actually Pokémon from the past and future, but I also like to think that they are created from someone's imagination.

[@adammorin2955]

Someones imagination theory has way to many holes. Like how does one person dream of the beasts they are expect roaring moon since its basically its mega.

[@vontegooden1689]

He said they are indeed both real and imagination.. and are created by the 3rd legendary of the indigo disk

[@schedar_cassiopeia]

then how do you make sense of walking wake? though i get this comment was made before it was released

[@kianthornton2856]

I beleive they are from imagination

[@raymiemiller1455]

(29:58) I wonder if the DLC will answer many of our Pokemon questions - Area Zero, the origins of the world, Ingo, ect. After all, the Archeus will be completed when the player finally captures the third legend. I really like this theory. I was interpreting the paradox as simply the Pokemon got to 200 years ago (perhaps the time machine isn't super accurate at "finding" the present) where Heath saw them, and then Heath inspired Sada/Turo to make the time machine to bring them to the present. In other words the are from the past/future, but them existing in modern day is a paradox. Your theory may have some merit, however.

[@jonathanflanagan1504]

That's an interesting way to think about it, and it would make them a bootstrap paradox, thus earning the classification of paradox pokemon.

[@lilpetz500]

Oh that ties together the Paradox title perfectly actually. Like, the inspiration to bring them here was a time where they were brought here. And in a way, something that exists entirely within Paradox loop doesn't exactly have the same sense of reality to it as something unaffected by time travel, perhaps due to the human involvement, the Pokemon get slightly distorted like how our memories do as we retread them. And we end up with time travelling creatures altered by human bias, essentially concepts exaggerated/added to them that particularly fascinated Heath, Sada, and Turo. Even the absence of one of the professors in each story, who are assumedly both Arven's parents in each timeline and both individually have the knowledge and capacity to invent AI and a time machine, implies there are at least two alternate realities, perhaps the realities split from each other at the point of time travel in each. Or maybe the realities split as one of the professors, who were both initially working on the project, makes the 50/50 decision to bail. I'm thinking the choice of the present professor in each story to isolate to Area Zero for the research may have been the deal breaker for the absent parent, as I can't imagine Sada actively carrying and birthing Arven and getting him to the surface to live his life easily while isolated there.

[@typemasters2871]

Here’s my opinion based on a theory I believe that the Time Machine is real but it was created/made possible from the disc Pokemon The past Pokemon are the ancestors of modern Pokemon (even if the time period isn’t the same as that shown in the dex) The future Pokemon do come from the future, but are robot recreations of said Pokemon with the “iron” in the name denoting the brand or company they belong to. (Like how most apple products begin with the letter i)

[@blastdragon1991]

If the mystery DLC legendary is indeed is family of/based on Zygarde we can probably guess that legendary is mainly green. Which would fit in with scarlet (red) and violet (blue). Red, blue and green, those colors sound familiar… If the DLC legendary's will follow the theme I expect if there is a fourth new legendary it will be a mainly yellow legendary. Extra edit; I thought a bit more about my color theory and noticed that the 4 character that join you at the Zero Gate all have one of the 4 colors in their design. Arven has a yellow jacket/backpack, Nemona has a green hair stripe, Penny has red/blue hair and Sada/Turo has red/blue. 29:58

[@jaernihiltheus7817]

The player's school outfit probably also fills the red/blue quota. In Scarlet, the player's default outfit is red themed, which makes Penny the blue rep. In Violet, the player's default outfit is violet (blue) themed, which makes Penny the red rep. Not exactly a perfect match, obviously. but it is interesting to think about.

[@adammorin2955]

Because its red violet and i assume the legendary may be yellow due to them all being primary colors but if its green it would make a sense. I personally think it might be yellow due to the red blue yellow from the gba and the third primary color.

[@jaernihiltheus7817]

@@adammorin2955 keep in mind in japan yellow is the 4th game. The original trio of gen 1 games are Red, Blue, and Green - corresponding to both the starters and the RBG color spectrum digital light (ie consoles and phones) uses as a base.

[@royshaheer]

Now this is quality

[@shironeko1843]

Also, there is a recurrent joke in the games with "Manzana Academy", apple in English, every time you do a test.

[@ZerarioTime]

one more thing is that they couldn't have been around 1 billion years in the past because the gen 1 paradox pokemon are from around 500 million and they are from the cambrean age, just when everything started getting big.

[@thunderdrum325]

Walking Wake and Iron Leaves just came out and the dlc's got revealed, cant wait to see how this ages or if there's gonna be a revision video. All in all, 10/10 video and excited for more

[@tyredsauce]

29:58 I initially had no opinion towards either side of the theory - whether they were real or imagined - but after this video - let's just say I'm convinced.

[@chrisw7047]

I always wondered why the new Mons were called "paradox", when it's simply creatures from the past/future. This explains the odd naming, which I think is the biggest in-game hint we get for their origin.

[@zelosXIV]

30:26 of pure amazingness! So glad I found this channel! You’ve been playing in the background as I play Pokémon again for the first time in years!

[@Iuckie]

29:58 Really liked the theory. Really hoping for some tie in for Kalos in the DLC as that region definitely feels the least explored but has such high potential for world-building because of the war.

[@BirdKeeperToby]

Thnaks so much I tihnk we could see it :D

[@Bezaliel13]

@@BirdKeeperToby Could have been better. For example, 9:25 Looks like Cyclizar has four toes, but the middle two are just really close together.

[@MortisMedia]

This was a fantastic explanation, I really enjoyed this one, the drawing of the third legendary I previously believed to just be a fragment of the time machine that perhaps was transported with the AI

[@BirdKeeperToby]

Aw thabk you so so much mate ^_^

[@nathanmcclung3564]

Actually I came up with a theroy a bit ago that flutter mane and scream tail are not paradox forms of misdrevous and jigglypuff but are actually mismagius and wigglytuff for whom got their modern day forms most likely due to human intervention. This does make sense given how pokemon adapt to environments like with regional variants. Mismagius is what happens when a pokemon who did not need to change its form due to how it was perfect for the times changed to look more like people (given the hat and more human like body shape with it looking like it was wearing a dress) and wigglytuff now is bigger and sluggish as it no longer has to fight for its life. One could state that the future mons are what happens when human intervention goes to far.

[@Dylan25rbo]

This is more than likely spot on for the dlc or atleast the backstory of Paldea and the paradoxes. Excellent work to you both!

[@mysterycupofjoe2670]

How you guys connected so many Pokemon generations with this theory made me subscribe.

[@BirdKeeperToby]

Thank you I hope you enjoy your stay ^_^

[@Niall_Sene]

Oh my, what a well constructed and possibly accurate theory!, this was so entertaining to watch and I think you've figured it out, I can't wait for the DLC!

[@AdeptCharon]

"they all have the exact same ability" well, Ultra Beasts all have Beast Boost and they're not even from the same universes.

[@BirdKeeperToby]

True true

[@kidkrazy6100]

My theory is that they aren't actually ancestors/descendants of modern pokemon but the time machine actually uses ultra wormholes and they are pokemon from alternate words where they are the past/future form of a different universe

[@grantdaily9662]

It could be possible that both theories are at work. Some could be real and others imagined

[@Knight41b]

Iron Thorns/Jugulus/Treads seem more alive/less robotic that the other future paradoxes.

[@JulianCaesaro]

29:48 interesting, almost like a culmination of theories come together to make one big theory altogether

[@bakedpotatocassarole]

29:58 this was so interesting and makes sooo much sense. i just can’t wait for the DLC to come out so we can how how it plays out😭

[@tacobowler]

One theory that didn’t make this concept is that both games have an actual time machine, and both paradox mons are real. But the professors are wrong about the specifics of the time machine, and Neither goes where they think. Rather the time machine in both games goes back 200 years, to Heath’s time, and the ai is who Heath talks to both times. Admittedly, this theory is in my mind because I hope the dlc lets us travel back to that time, but I think it can fit.

[@Moon-Vixen]

29:58! I'm so glad you guys mentioned the movie, I've been saying forever that's exactly what I think it is. they've been taking ideas from the anime/movies and making them parts of the games for a while now, and "things from a book being made into reality through crystals" in the movie is too close to what we have in SV to NOT be the plot here, I'm sure of it! I just hope we're also right that the crater is also connected to AZ bc if it isn't, I'm gonna be so mad at the lost opportunity.

[@bekahchu4102]

29:58 this was so good I wasn't sure how much I believed in that theory before but the way you explained it made so much sense

[@animeegotists7527]

Even though I’ve never understood them, I’m always fascinated by theories and lore like this! It’s so awesome to see people passionate about that! Seriously though guys: give Espy some love! One of the coolest people I know!

[@EspyJuju]

You're one of the coolest people I know. 😁

[@animeegotists7527]

@@EspyJuju aw shucks😊

[@VarietyTelevision]

This is a really cool idea. It excellently squishes together all the individual little details and theories we've had/noticed, but didn't know what to do with.

[@SoulSloth147]

I really want the pokemon company to make a game (like legends Arkoos) but based in kalos and to be about the ultimate weapon.

[@nazeersadek6705]

30:26 I’m willing to bet that your theory will be better than the official dlc story when that drops

[@Bezaliel13]

No question on why they are unbreedable? 9:25 Looks like Cyclizar has four toes, but the middle two are just really close together. 10:25 Wait, what? Aren't they just uncatchable, not nonexistent? THEY WERE COMPARED TO THOSE POKEMON IN THE GAME.

[@cearlach32]

you could even say that the terastlizing prosses takes so much energy that the 3rd legendary faints because you can only terastiliz once per healing from a pokemon center/poke-stop

[@dwinters6291]

10:22 that argument is stupid af. In a union circle, you can get all exclusive mons from BOTH games to spawn.

[@marlonknockaert3233]

its crazy how in generation two you have the time capsule, and in generation five the character who wants to see in the future. And now we have walking wake (past gen 2 form) and iron leaves (future gen 5 form) also the two pokemon who both have a past AND future form are: Donphan (gen 2) Volcrona (Gen 5) To top it all off the two regions that have not been revisited for the longest time are gen 2 and gen 5

[@Moonsong227]

This would make paradox pokemon so much better! They were too caveman esque and too glowy tron esque for my liking to be considered natural progressions, even in pokemon. And it would tie into other regions well too. Nice job guys!

[@Moonsong227]

Plus considering 1 bil years ago would be prior to basically anything more rigid than a jellyfish

[@evanminton8315]

When I took the future Paradox Pokémon as real, I theorized that the environment in the distant future is so terrible, maybe something like out of Wall-E or worse, that scientists had to manipulate themselves and the bodies of Pokemon just to survive. Basically make all life into cyborgs. Either that, or the environment basically killed all Pokémon and so humans made robot replacements.

[@GustavoJua15]

@@evanminton8315 That has some credence to it in the TCG. The Violet packs have Miraidon in what looks like barren land (trees are dried up or dormant).

[@gabriellockwood2780]

I agree with some of this video, but then you got into the Paradox explanation lol The existing Sada/Turo in the opposite game-Turo in Scarlet/Sada in Violet, is living in an area where they could harbor/help the Version Exclusive Pokémon in the opposite game//universes. Salamence is cared for under Turo's watch in the World where Sada eventually dies. (On the flip): Hydreigon is cared for by Sada in the World where Turo dies.

[@xx_squirtle8621]

The ideas supporting paradoxes are quite flawed in and of themselves. Such as Mega Aerodactyl not being the original form. Even in recent appearance such as let’s go, Aerodactyl’s skeleton doesn’t possess any traits of the mega. The AI and Professors are a biased source. Them saying it’s a Time Machine isn’t really getting us anywhere. That’s simply what they believe is happening. Also the fact that none of the fossil Pokémon and Prehistoric evolutions share ANY aspects of Paradox Pokémon, despite the former having the perfect excuse to have those aspects. And how all these supposed “ancestors”(Paradox Pokémon) look EXACTLY like their descendants with superfluous primal features super-glued onto them. Also considering the future paradoxes are explained to be robots based on their living counterparts with wildly different origins according to the Pokedex/Violet book. The point is, even what’s supporting their validity can be called into question. At this point the only thing we truly can say about paradoxes for sure is they exist in game.

[@dmv99]

How can you be 100% sure that you’re 90% right? So then you’re not very sure if you’re leaving room for error? Also, just because roaring moon looks like mega Salamanca does not mean that’s true for other Pokémon. In fact, the connection could literally be just the similarity of the looks and nothing else.

[@SparkkiiTV]

29:54 This was beautifully put together. I cant wait to see this unfold as we get the DLC

[@geg708]

_I think that Paradox Pokémon aren't really Pokémon from the past or the future, it was already pointed out in the Occulture Magazine that there's no proof that an ancient Volcarona existed + magnets and ghosts fusing with dinosaurs seems pretty dumb to me, I doubt that something like Sandy Shocks or Flutter Man actually existed in ancient past._ _I think that Heath and his team wanted fantastic Pokémon to exist because if Area Zero was just a crater with completely normal Pokémon and items then all of the people who died while trying to explore Area Zero for a whole millennium would have died in vain._ _Paradox Pokémon being fantasies brought to reaility by the third legendary would also explain why the Pokémon that live in the first layer of Area Zero are normal Pokémon, because Heath and his squad saw them and were like "This isn't possible! Area Zero MUST have Pokémon never seen before and magic herbs, right? That's what our ancestors thought" and started wanting fantastic things like the Paradox Pokémon._

[@GoldSayaProductions]

It's a fantasy world. How is anything hard to accept?

[@clay240874]

Another thing is tarapagose has the power to travel through time so he could’ve just brought them from the past or future and then they just started roaming around area zero so if they were from the professors imagination, how would they exist before anyone went into area zero?

[@silksong6019]

I think we’re all forgetting that the professors go inside of the time-machine. It’s very much real, otherwise they’d just be going into nothingness. Also with the abilities, the same thing happens with the ultra-beasts. They all have the same ability despite being from different worlds. They’re not fake.

[@evagarcia865]

Um…they could be going to what they *imagine* the past/future looks like

[@BBWahoo]

They're not real either, but they're not fake They're paradoxes. 🤯 Get it?

[@AdeptCharon]

Espy: "resurrection machine adds Rock type" This is the biggest and oldest case of "source pls"/"citation needed" in the entire series.

[@varenemerald]

"Disc pokemon" i hate that term for it despite the fact that's what it's canonically called. It's clearly a lil dude thing on a massive ball. Where's the disc?

[@torterratortellini6641]

Maybe iron valiant is foreshadowing a fusion gimmick considering the Pokémon is from the future. Like how roaring moon is a past Pokémon and is based on mega evolution.

[@Belugakuga6549]

What if the first dlc is about going to a little bit of kalos and learning about the third legendary, and then the second dlc is about the third legendary escaping the crater and us trying to stop it from taking revenge on kalos

[@ericwilson8867]

Maybe you can also catch Zygarde in Kalos and make it help in defeating the disc legend

[@nox1910]

So, three counterpoints to the imagination argument: 1: Miraidon/Koraidon could just be evolutions of Cyclizar. Legends Arceus shows us that Pokémon can lose the ability to evolve into certain Pokémon over time, and it's possible that Miraidon isn't a natural evolution, like with Porygon, or a newfound evolution due to the situation in the future. 2. You know what other group of Pokémon all share the same unique ability? Ultra Beasts, and they all live in different worlds, possibly even different universes. 3. It's not that the version exclusives don't exist in the other world, they just aren't found in Paldea at that time. Several trainers have version exclusives in-game, so either they are found in that world or they were brought in through trading and could've been bred or released into the wild (which itself would be an environmental catastrophe, but that's neither here nor there). There may just be a factor there that isn't present for modern Pokémon. The fact that the pokedex entries are the same as from the magazines is interesting, though. That said, that would make it one of those weird things where a Pokémon hasn't been seen before or didn't exist before, so why does it even have a dex entry?

[@Don_LUSH]

While I may not be convinced it is an interesting theory overall, for one using Hisui as reference for pokemon wild behavior may not be the best idea since the Galaxy expedition comes from outside Hisui and many of their members seem to think Hisui is behind the times with the rest of the world. I think with hisuian culture being so religious due their closeness to Arceus they were the exception more than the rule after all animals learn to fear humans when they are hunted or harmed but with people being constantly afraid of course Hisui pokemon will be more aggressive

[@stephcannon5208]

wasn't the hisui game also set 1,300-2,300 years before Gen IV, not 200 years ago?

[@professorkauri]

Awesome theory, great job to you both! Paradoxes are certainly complicated, I look forward to seeing how this all unfolds in the dlc! 29:58

[@WhiteRaven696]

While AZ did have a brother (Lysandre’s ancestor), I don’t recall him being mentioned as the one who went to war with AZ. Also, it’s possible for both Area Zero to be 1 million years old, and for it to be the Ultimate Weapon’s impact zone. One thing to note is that AZ’s Floette is also known as the Eternal Flower. Using a Paradox Pokémon naming scheme. It also cannot evolve or breed and has a BST similar to that of the Paradoxes.

[@ericwilson8867]

I guess it can also work as a paradox since is it really the same Pokemon? Kinda like that thought about the boat being replaced by parts until none of the original remain, is that still the same boat or not?

[@WhiteRaven696]

@@ericwilson8867 The Ship of Theseus

[@Shinntoku]

AZ's Floette is known as Eternal Flower Floette, Eternal Flower is the name of the flower it holds, not the Pokémon itself.

[@mightyandray7260]

Eternal flower floette could be like an old floette, but as those flowers died out they evolved to hold other flowers.

[@devin42492]

Did you also notice that all of the paradox pokemon have a similar cry? The ones in scarlet all have a howling sound behind their cry, the ones from Violet have a digital blurbing thing behind their cry. I anticipate that when the third legendary is released, it will have a cry that is a combination of the backgrounds of these cries.

[@lilpetz500]

I can't wait to see something like this, particularly of the rideable lizards. One looks very ancient, one looks very futuristic, and one is incredibly regular and plain. Now imagine a wild biomachine beast combination of the two ends of the scale, and a true opposite to cyclizar. It would probably have to be a pink/plum colour perhaps, as that is the midpoint between scarlet and violet and the opposite of green. So a wildly powerful looking pink biomachine beast

[@thebliboshow4279]

Wait wait wait final year??

[@WolfDragonTamer]

I'm still confused about that too

[@whisperingwooper1763]

I am also confused too

[@markzman2970]

I actually love watching your videos when it comes to Pokémon lures and theories, and this video was no exception! That work to the pair of you!!

[@gabriellockwood2780]

It's strange to me that there are only ever 2 of the Koraidon//Miraidon. Before the games released, there were hidden Items found that look SIMILAR to Evolutionary Stones-being both an orange stone and a purple stone. Could that be how we see how Koraidon/Miraidon came to Evolve???

[@arshu_parshu1999]

There are way more in the past\future

[@ShiningJudgment666]

@@arshu_parshu1999 More than likely commonplace in their respective time periods as past/future Cyclizar variants and equivalents. They're also dual-typed like Cyclizar so it's not too farfetched.

[@morijinsbrother]

I have a thought that I noticed yesterday. The team star cyclizar bare an uncanny resemblance to Miraidon that they don't share with Koraidon. The shape the saddle give them makes them nearly a one to one with Miraidon. I believe that in one timeline, the gang lost to professor Sada and the Primal Pokémon started to escape into Paldea and Penny and team star create the paradox Pokémon. Penny based Miraidon off of Koraidon, but only had the regular Cyclizar to work off. However AI turo would appear in the world after being beaten by us. With his help, Penny sends the iron Paradox Pokémon into the past, because the time machine was the one from Scarlet that sends pokemon into the past. Not knowing that this would spark the events in Pokémon violet. Where again a version of events happen where they reconfigure the time machine to go to the past and send the primal paradox Pokémon into the future. I think it's actually the main cast that set the events of Pokémon into action using the time machines rather than it being set up by the disk tortoise

[@mally60]

This made me think of a mini theory... Kinda. Just a thought really. Do you think the gen 5 remakes (or sequels is what I'm hoping for) will be set in the future, similar to how legends arceus was set in the past. It would wrap up the whole past and future "arc" in the games, it's an idea that hasn't been explored yet in the franchise, and i think it works ONLY with gen 5 because they're the only games that have numbers sequels.

[@ericwilson8867]

I like how that idea works since it feels weird having PLA and SV both dealing with time travel in some way being released right next to each other and the same year too

[@mightyandray7260]

Also, legends arceus told us the secondary types for the gen 9 starters (dark, ghost, fighting) legends unova could use the secondary starter types for the gen 10 starters

[@peyow1]

Maybe the drawing of the 3rd legendary isnt one single pokemon, but a mix of all the forms. Like the different Zygard forms.

[@notsoAceTrainer]

Loved the video! Editing and content are top notch as always! And it does offer a more... sane explanation for the Paradox category! There are 2 things that I think are not correct, though - Ho-Oh's lore doesn't state it created their first Raikou, Entei or Suicune, only that it revived 3 Pokémon as those 3 specific beasts that we see in Johto, so people could know about them already. And I think Raifort says the Emperor explorers returned, they simply didn't reach the depths of Area Zero. Still, I think you are pretty much on the money. I disagree with a few things (I do think that, through radiometric dating methods, they could easily have dated the crater as 1M years old, they've been there many times, but I also couldn't resist the AZ connection in the past - love me some Kalos), though I have a few theories for future videos and the fact that they line up with some points you talked about here (Unown and the Disk Pokémon always being on the watch to get something from us - though I think it is in our dimension) means that we are most likely circling around the right answer. Also - Dudunsparce and Farigiraf spawning only in the crater when we've been wanting that evolutions for years means that our obsession might have also turned real! I'd like to state that my theory on imagination comes not from leaks, but from Portuguese legends! Sebastian of Portugal and bit of Adamastor! I stand firmly against the culture of leaks that has formed on YT. Oh, and also - 29:58 !

[@BirdKeeperToby]

Mate thank you I was super curious to know what you might think baout this specificly because I’ve been watching your videos and been desperate to chime in! For the last month hahahah. And all that is totally fair ^_^ let’s work on a theory together sometime btw ^_^

[@notsoAceTrainer]

@@BirdKeeperToby I would love that! Let's see what ScaVi brings in the future and how it puts our minds at work!

[@ArctiVax]

First of all, welcome back Toby! Its a pretty solid theory tying in the most popular theories regarding the origin of paradox pokemon. But the problem with it is that it appears when the ultimate weapon launched, it came back down where it started (so Geosensge) and not someplace else. Sure the validity of the claim that the Paldea crater being 1 millions years old is definetly up to questioning (since it doesn't even look like an impact crater at all). While i have been consuming pokemon theory content for years now, gen 9 is the first time i have actively engaged in debates regarding them so the tie in with ultimate weapon doesn't feel that strong for me. There is also the fact that one region's legendary pokemon rarely affect the legendary pokemon of another region. Hisui and Sinnoh have had one of the most dangerous levels of threat but there has never been mention of them in any other region. Sinnoh/Hisui is literally (and canonically) connected to johto (and by proxy Kanto as well) and yet we don't see any mention of any reality bending world destroying stuff that happened there being mention in Johto or Sinnoh (world ending? who cares! But a gyarados ramapaging in a lake? now thats international new worthy -_-). What i am trying to get at is that trying to base the origins, characteristics and motvies of the Disc pokemon in area zero off of legendary pokemon or events from other regions (however close their proximity might be) is not going to pan out well. There will certainly be loose connections but gamefreak for the most part loves to expand the lore with every new generation and only a few years to decades later connect the lore of a previous region to that of the a new one. Not that even in gen 6, they changed the lore of Hoenn to match with the lore introduced in XY, not the other way around. So if there is any connection to firing of ultimate weapon with paldea, i believe the event in Kalos will be changed or altered to connect with lore of disk pokemon and not the other way around. And in case of kalos its not that difficult to alter story of war, since war history is based on the perspective of the winner, not necesarrily based on the truth.

[@lianaverwood9810]

I am fairly certain that Hisui/Sinnoh was indeed physically connected to Johto - the operative word being *'was'.* When Arceus had _Regigigas tow the Continents_ into place, for some reason *the Sinnoh Region was broken off* of the Kanto/Johto Mainland, which is why it's currently situated _much further North_ from Johto. This is why we can only access the Ruins of a _Temple dedicated to Arceus_ - the *Sinjoh Ruins* - by tapping into the power of *Arceus itself,* through the conduit of the _Ruins of Alph,_ and *the Unown...* Also, *AZ's Ultimate Weapon* was likely able to be Aimed, but _to dissuade others from Abusing its power,_ AZ probably locked it back to *its original coordinates* before burying it. This simple explanation keeps the potential of the Ultimate Weapon being the cause of *Area Zero* - if his Brother was indeed the Paldean Emperor at the time, AZ would know _how destructive the Third Legendary he commanded could be_ if it was brought to the front lines. To End the War, this would equate to _Nuking the Pokémon from Orbit_ - and even then, the Pokémon *survived!* I don't think the Third Legendary was sent to another realm - only *its conciousness.* The Physical Form of the Pokémon is likely _in a Dormant State,_ within its own Cocoon - just like *Xerneus and Yveltal do* when they use up all their power - _"in the form of a Brilliant Disk."_ The *Disk Pokémon* is using the energy from *the Terastal Phenomenon* to regather its strength, and is influencing people through their Dreams and Imagination to _set the stage for its Return._ This includes getting *Heath* to publish the *Scarlet/Violet Book* with the Data it gave him, to later be used by _someone inspired by them enough_ to make it down to its Dormant form - so it can get that person (which turned out to be *Sada/Turo)* to create the *'Time Machine'* and the *Tera Orbs.* The Tera Orbs give the Disk Pokémon vision to _the World outside of the Crater,_ while gathering Infinity Energy from Trainers and their Pokémon whenever they *Terastalize.* Whereas the 'Time Machine' was designed to bring these *Theoretical Past/Future Pokémon* to life, in order to create _an Imbalance within the Ecosystem_ - to attract the attention of *its Kalosian Counterpart, Zygarde!*

[@madnessarcade7447]

The future forms are cyborgs not robots similar to armored mewtwo but the enhancements became permanent part of their physiology cuz if they were robots they’d all be pure electric and/or steel or dual typed but they don’t they all retain at least one of their original types meaning that it’s lineage/biology is still part of it deep down either they did it to themselves or humans did it as a way to either act inhumanely or as a way to preserve them I think they all just overtime just became cyborgs down the line without going extinct maybe endangered or a way to keep them from being endangered Or just a way to advance evolution in a selfish way The reason the lore calls them robots is because they don’t know much about them so all the modern day people are doing is assuming

[@GoinGreninja]

They sleep, they eat and many other things, they're most definitely cyborgs.

[@4wheal]

Dosent the Pokedex outright call the future pokemon objects insted of living creatures?

[@madnessarcade7447]

@@GoinGreninja exactly

[@madnessarcade7447]

@@4wheal I literally just said that’s because they don’t understand them or know much about them also the information was from shady sources

[@madnessarcade7447]

@@4wheal read the last sentence

[@CasualTheEvil]

Maybe the legendary beast is just what the jotho legendry trio used to look like, but somehow it died and ho-oh revived it, but split it into three, making Suicune, Entei and raikou

[@Kahadi]

Seriously, what is with the quality of Pokemon theories these days. It seems like the release of this generation of Pokemon has theorists forgetting how to properly research stuff... Gonna need to split this replying to myself because its too long otherwise. First and biggest issue with this theory is the age of the Great Crater. It is not speculated to be 1,000,000 years old, it is not stated in a hyperbolic manner. It is stated as fact, with science backing it up. Quoting Raifort in History 1 "[...] research of its geological strata and material composition has shown that the crater is in fact over one million years old." They know for a fact how old the crater is, and it is not a mere 3,000 years old. It existed long before the war mentioned in Kalos. Why is this taken as exaggeration and theory, but the information on the Paradox Pokemon taken as fact when this is stated as fact and all information on Paradox Pokemon comes from Occulture except their looks? Which brings up problem two, the entries for the Paradox Pokemon. You're right that, depending on the game, the entries for the Paradox Pokemon are either from Occulture or the Scarlet/Violet Book. But look at what those entries are exactly. The ones that aren't from Occulture all quite literally say the same thing, "this Pokemon looks like a creature/object described by an expedition journal," and nothing else, unless you count a few saying either "there's been a sighting" or "nothing is known about it" but even that's not much. All of the information like Iron Jugulis being the offspring of a Hydreigon and a robot or Iron Valiant being created by a mad scientist or Scream Tail being a billion year old Jigglypuff or Sandy Shocks being 10,000 years old, all of that comes from Occulture. And Occulture is a paranormal magazine that parodies real world ones, like the stuff that says Bigfoot is the "missing link" or the Loch Ness Monster is a plesiosaur that survived until now or that aliens helped build the pyramids. Following up on that comes the origins of Occulture's articles. Just like real world paranormal magazines, they come from eyewitness reports and testimony. Someone training their Brambleghast at 2 am in the Asado Desert saw a massive creature that looked like a giant Donphan. A drunk man stumbling home in the dark sees what he swears looked like a Jigglypuff with a tail. Two kids that got lost in the forest insist a metallic Pokemon with disconnected hands saved them from a falling tree. A man wakes up in the hospital covered in cuts, doctors think he fell down a mountain and was lucky to survive but he insists he was attacked by something that looked like a cross between a Gardevoir and a Gallade. Paradox Pokemon are quite literally Pokemon cryptids, and you prove their existence but can't tell anyone. And before people try saying "but they're only in the Great Crater where nobody is allowed," it is stated when you meet AI Sada/Turo that the Paradox Pokemon are starting to escape, and even the Pokedex entries and Occulture articles mention sightings of them. Just because the Quaking Earth Titan is the only one we can find outside of the Great Crater, doesn't mean it's the only one that's escaped. There's a lot we don't see ourselves in Pokemon games, doesn't mean they aren't there, such as all of the other legendaries. And regarding version exclusives, it's even implied that even the other Paradox Pokemon are there, they just aren't available for us to find. I mean, their Pokedex entries when you trade them mention Occulture's articles on them. And in the Occulture articles, it even says the names come from the Scarlet/Violet Book, as the eyewitness reports match the descriptions of things there, just like the Pokedex entries for the ones in that version. All in all, people have seen them, but almost nobody believes them. We can also see similar talking to NPCs around, though mostly with the Titans and not the Paradox Pokemon, with them claiming they saw something and trying to describe it but people not believing them. Now, with that out of the way, let's move on from glaring mistakes like that to less obvious things. For one, while we can assume the man/woman mentioned in the Zero Lab journals is Turo/Sada in the other game (though it's not actually confirmed, it makes more sense than claiming Arven's other parent is some random person in that universe and not the other parent we see in the other game), there's nothing saying they went through time. It says they walked out. Not that they disappeared or that they were never seen again or anything like that, and being Sada/Turo's personal journal entries, there's no reason for them to hide it if they went through the time machine, and not even a meta reason like "they wanted to hide time travel being a thing from the player until the big reveal" works as that reveal came in Lab 3's journal entries, talking about them getting Koraidon/Miraidon and other ancient/future Pokemon, working towards their goal of a paradise where they can live with such Pokemon, then in Lab 4 is where they mention the other person leaving. So there is no evidence they went through time, it's quite possible they just didn't want Arven, or for a happier reason, they disagreed with Sada/Turo's paradise and didn't want to raise a child in what they saw as a dangerous landscape. Next, Heath's journal and expedition. Your explanations here aren't even a paradox, they're nonsense. The Disk Pokemon created the Paradox Pokemon for Heath, the world dismissed them as fake, as stories, Sada/Turo believed in them enough to go to the Great Crater and research them, the Disk Pokemon made their imaginations real, they built a time machine, the other one went to the past/future, then AI Sada/Turo went to the other time, communicated through time to coordinate the creation of the time machine and to send a Paradox Pokemon to Heath to fulfill the loop? So the Disk Pokemon makes imagination real, but just invented the Paradox Pokemon itself to put the idea into the thoughts of Sada/Turo and the collective subconscious so it could make them real? So which is it? Did it create the Paradox Pokemon itself to show to Heath, or did it make Sada/Turo's imagination reality? And if it made these past/future Pokemon real in the past/future where Sada/Turo or their AI counterparts were... Wouldn't that make them real anyway, with the ancient ones thus being the origins of those Pokemon? And if it transformed Heath's Cyclizar into a Koraidon/Miraidon, wouldn't he have known that's what happened? And wouldn't he then have had proof of his expedition? Again, that's not a paradox, that's nonsense. You "explained" the paradox behind Paradox Pokemon with nonsense and a new paradox. The paradox is already there, spotlighted by Arven. The time machine brought ancient/future Pokemon into the present, but the idea for it was inspired by an expedition journal that reported seeing these ancient/future Pokemon. I don't get the need to explain that with a complicated mess that gives the Disk Pokemon conflicting abilities, gives conflicting origins for the original Paradox Pokemon, one of which is a Paradox and one of which isn't, gives an answer for everything, then ignores it all to shove in the paradox. The whole point of the bootstrap paradox is that there is no origin for the idea, in this case the Paradox Pokemon. But you gave it an origin, the Disk Pokemon, then ignored that and gave it a new origin by saying it made Sada/Turo's imagination real, then ignored that and gave it a third origin by saying they sent the Pokemon to Heath's time and shoved in the bootstrap paradox of the creation of the time machine. That makes the Paradox Pokemon's origins not a paradox, but rewritten history. Just look at the Song of Storms paradox from the Legend of Zelda series. Link learns the Song of Storms from the windmill guy, whom learned the Song of Storms from Link. There is no origin for it, not a rewritten origin.

[@jeanduresau]

Great response my friend, is just that XY fanatics are so obsessed with shoving the Kalos War into anything in Pokémon.

[@vincentcastellano8935]

29:58 Great stuff. I hope the people creating these games watch and appreciate content like this as much as the fans do, it adds such a rich and compelling lore to the franchise and fills in gaps where development time or brand management might not allow for it. It really all starts to jumble in my head though as to what really exists in these games and what has been crafted and speculated by fans like yourselves, but I guess that's what makes the franchise continually exciting to me after all these years. Thanks for the great work!

[@ItsDangerX]

I think Raifort is part of some sort of group. In some of her dialogue when you talk with her throughout and after the lessons she refers to us i think the line was “this could be of use to us”? Anyway when she mentioned something like that I thought it was odd

[@BirdKeeperToby]

Espy actually did a video on this topic recnetly :D

[@adars20]

The AZ and Area Zero did it for me :D Brilliant stuff! Love it

[@jeddy936]

The dates are too far off for area zero to be the site of the great weapon.

[@BirdKeeperToby]

I disagree, actually it makes sense as to why Paldea has no recoreded history pre 2000 years ago and has only had it's school in the last 800

[@jeddy936]

@@BirdKeeperToby​You are correct on that but I think your overlooking the geological studies on the minerals found in area place the formation at “over one million years” as stated in the first history class. Edit: ight I had to re watch y’all did bring it up but personally I’m of the opinion that creating a portal in the middle of a crater making that crater now exist for thousands of years.…………… the more I think of the paradox this would creat the naming makes sense…………… well have to wait and see I guess

[@shibumi8]

I like this theory. It makes a lot of sense and puts the paradox in paradox Pokemon. My theory was that Area Zero was some kind of temporal anomaly that drew in things from all kinds of alternate timelines and realities. Though I do like the idea that it’s just one massive hole leading into the unoun dimension. 😊 30:09

[@amandah.3630]

One thing I didn't note you discussing was that Khu seems to be Chinese, and was most likely leaking a Chinese version of the game. As I understand it, time travel is illegal in China (seriously) and is not allowed to appear in Chinese media- therefore, any references to time travel in the games had to be rewritten- in the case of SV, it was rewritten for them to be taken from the professor's imaginations (therefore not time travel, therefore legal under current Chinese media laws)

[@professor_chestnut]

This theory makes so much sense.

[@isaacschoney5118]

29:58 I really think this whole idea makes sense. If GameFreak doesn't do anything like this, I'm starting a riot.

[@BirdKeeperToby]

TY TY :D

[@joshfrith3140]

I’m betting dlc will let you access opposing sides in each version you originally couldn’t

[@senatorarmstrong1233]

Future Pokemon are cyborgs, not actual robots.

[@m0tm0t2]

Some are some aren’t - iron hands is a cyborg - iron valiant is literally called a robot

[@bradleymcdonald1242]

Such a great video ,keep it up Toby , you were the first poketuber i ever watched and its so nice to see you still churning out amazing content!

[@AlanomalyOfficial]

From what I understand, the "imagination" thing primarily has to deal with the Chinese release of the game. China doesn't allow media with time travel, and thusly the story had to be changed for that release. Now, it's definitely possible that it still has a factor in the main story of every other release, but I do believe this is the primary reason that the imagined aspect is involved is because they had to take into account the Chinese release wouldn't be allowed to have the time travel aspect.

[@4wheal]

Dosent the idea also come from the fact the game mentions there are no fossil records surporting the existence of the past pokemon. As for the future pokemon, it makes no sense for them to have been in Area Zero well before the creation of the time machine as they wouldn't have existed yet.

[@Victoreatsfood.]

29:58 holy cow Toby and Juju. Awesome job!!

[@Dabuddah]

Personally I don't take what you can catch in the game as canon in a sense. All Pokemon exist in the Pokemon world and just because it's in the Pokedex/Regional dex doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

[@sb6196]

The only exceptions would be possiblity ultra beasts and paradox pokemon.

[@samuel.thornton]

29:58 THANK YOU. This is the most holistic and reasonable explanation of what seemed to be clear in the game: these Pokemon are Paradoxes and a paradox is not just something from the past or future.