Weakest Detachment So Far? The Assassins Detachment is a FAIL, but Fun!

[@vivian-alexandrarivers897]

Honestly, I am somewhat glad they got this. It's on theme for both being focused on the stuff that people enjoy from the army and being utter garbage!

[@HB2K-h8m]

They clearly don't want agents to be a competitive choice which I suppose is fair enough given the limited unit choices. Particularly now Deathwatch is back.

[@masterofthelag8414]

Given the focus on assassins here and the lack of power in general for this faction - I'm surprised this subfaction didn't also come with some way to remove the Epic Hero keyword from Assasins to at *least* allow you to bring a whole bunch of them, goofy as that might be in practice.

[@HB2K-h8m]

Strongly suspect these detachments got even less playtesting than usual and the designers were very wary of accidentally making a new assassins meta. Which they very successfully avoided...

[@tyrant-den884]

At the very least they could provide some weaker 1H "murder cult" squad units.

[@thebamboom2147]

Watching my opponent pull out three vindicares and slapping it all around the map with reserves would be terrifying. That said it would be interesting to see how they'd act if you could take multiple of the same

[@arn1345]

@@HB2K-h8m Could have at least added SOMETHING for the rank and file agents troops. Like bonuses for being near assassin characters or something.

[@vgtrevorable]

​@@tyrant-den884I like this thought a lot. A couple squads with variable sizes and a couple weapon options to fill the army a bit

[@BurnByMoonlight]

4 Assassins in a trench coat does not a detachment make.

[@SirMerlinux]

This is actually pretty lore-accurate. The Nemesis novel made abundantly clear that a group of highly trained assassins can't kill their intended target so... it somehow makes sense.

[@michaelburke1023]

@@SirMerlinux hah I guess I’ll have to give GW a pass on this one then 😂 I didn’t know that

[@NecroGoblin-yl2fx]

weakest Detachment for the weakest codex. Agents don't even have a real army rule and now a bad detachment

[@AaronFrederick843]

yeah, kindof a waste.

[@seanbolster7603]

Now 3/5 detatchments are bad. Lol. Only 2 decent ones are the imperial fleet and xenos hunters.

[@NecroGoblin-yl2fx]

@@seanbolster7603 and no one will play xenos hunters as we just got DW index.

[@Majere613]

It feels like someone in the GW design team is utterly convinced Agents are actually very strong and therefore insists on pushing their points into the stratosphere. I'd definitely call this one a near-miss. The Eversor strat should be 1CP, that's so obvious that it feels like a misprint, and his Enhancement should grant Fights First instead of the Counter-Attack, making him genuinely dangerous to charge near. Most of the others just need a bit of a points discount, especially the Culexus one. The Callidus Enhancement is potentially monstrous, bearing in mind you can do it at any point during your Movement phase, so you could move some Subductors up into charge range and then use it to set up the Callidus as well, for example. There's also the cheeky play of using it on a Rogue Trader entourage and potentially resurrecting the 'dead' model with their medic. Probably the funniest thing about this Detachment though is how it makes some big scary models like Magnus who have the misfortune to be Characters, Monsters and Psykers deeply nervous, because a well-timed combo of Vindicare and Culexus could potentially one-shot them. I stil really want to see Inquistors get a lot more dangerous, though, to give Agents some teeth. Some scary Xenotech weapons, forbidden psychic powers, apocalyptically potent Faith relics, etc. Get the gloves off them and make them the terrifying individuals they're supposed to be.

[@kevinmack5618]

I suspect whats really happend is the book was intended for being used to ally into other imperial forces first and as a stand alone army a very distant second.

[@loke5052]

would have been cool if those upgrades also just made their baseline better. Costing so much for so little value is hilarious

[@HB2K-h8m]

Of course the baseline cost for assassins within an agents army could drop in the balance dataslate, particularly for those that are the same as allies at the moment.

[@Trinine9]

I mean have you seen eldar guardians?

[@peters6345]

it's a fluffy detachment but pretty terrible.. they even made a +1T stratagem 2cp.. not sure why they are so careful with this codex. At the same time they make the super powerful necron detachment XD

[@thecactusman17]

It's because of how many different factions they can ally with.

[@peters6345]

@thecactusman17 they don't get any detachment rules or strats when they ally

[@thecactusman17]

@@peters6345 If they ally in to someone else, yes. but when other forces ally to _them_ it's a different story. And again, Agents has the largest number of potential ally options in the game since they can ally in just about any other Imperial or Human faction.

[@peters6345]

@thecactusman17 don't they have a lower winrate than marines? And were pretty close to bottom XD

[@thecactusman17]

@@peters6345 Custodes Talons of the Emperor is one of the lowest performing detachments in the game and it won Worlds. Finding interactions that the rest of the meta isn't prepared for influences tournament results immensely.

[@joeblogs8049]

Imperial Agents just keep on winning.

[@chaosheaven23]

Agents fans eating good yesterday.xD

[@fabiusque4266]

The detachment would have been on the weak side even if the ability to use their special rule twice would be free instead of stupidly expensive. But, to be fair, anyone who expected a faction that in itself is a joke right now to get anything other than a joke doesnt know GW very well.

[@sbeaber]

Cullexus should get free grenades strat

[@thefloatingcontinent9897]

That wound on 2+

[@stripeybag6977]

Ya know with Deathwatch getting their own Army again I think they decided to be lazy with Agents; sorry person who bought too much Kill Team and half dead frog.

[@prestonjohnson1537]

Eh, I'd say it's pretty cool. I like the assassins anyway, so this is a pretty big win for me.

[@HB2K-h8m]

It is fluffy, but it's also a massive missed opportunity to give Imperial Agents an alternative to Imperial Fleet as a detachment that actually works. And still no army rule! 😭

[@DarthAzabrush]

Hereticus works too believe me I've seen it pull some really nasty surprises on the overconfident.

[@magikseagul]

This could be rather fun for Hero mode from Tabletop Tactics. Makes the assassins extra spicy for a character focused way to play

[@elispiller2686]

Really good shout. They should definitely give it a go

[@christerprestberg3973]

It's kinda fun, but yeah, a detachment that focuses on a maximum of 4 units in your army is not great... not to mention that the extra cost on the assassin's makes them sometimes worse. Would it really have broken the game if they just turbo boosted the assassins without the extra cost in this detachment since it's just 4 models.

[@stoneosborne9247]

Friendly reminder, there's a 5th Assassin available to run within the Rogue Trader Entourage.

[@Sayquidnidly]

Merry christmas

[@Ezrol1994]

Classic games workshop strategy of taking the army doing the worst and giving them the worst possible detatchment

[@chernobylcat1791]

I dont get why the agents are like this. The models are so cool, and the rules are just bad. I still think that Order Xenos could of been so cool if it worked like the deathwatch index. I want my deathwatch led by Inquisitors.

[@timothyspangler8678]

the army rule needs to add 'whenever a unit shoots or fights re-roll a hit and wound roll of 1' it would greatly empower assassins without making them OP and allowthe rest of the army to have at least SOME support.

[@firedrake110]

The Culexus should have got the "can target him for 0CP, even if you've already used the stratagem this turn" treatment for the Grenades ability

[@DHYohko]

I kinda like it but it does have big weakneses. letting the calidus swap with any infantry unit during movement is cool, anti vehicle and mosnter on vindicare shores u it's weakness, free intervene and interupt on eversore helps it move around, culexus is the only iffy one. I feel that letting you bring double the assasins would be stronger and more useful.

[@jeremiegartner464]

The could fix this next edition by changing the keywords and letting the deathwatch index be a detachment in this codex. Have the flavor detachments and allow the ally rule but the main army is deathwatch.

[@StarkMaximum]

This was probably the worst case scenario for these Grotmas detachments. A weak, mid detachment that's only fun if you're _really_ into the theme that only really benefits four very specific units, especially four very specific character units. It's way too niche for a codex that's already kind of niche. But it's free, it's not like it took development time from anything else, and there's no reason _not_ to at least have it in your back pocket. It's like getting a gift you really don't care about from someone you love; I appreciate more that they thought about what I'd want and took a swing than actually having the gift itself.

[@pokemastercube]

i think this one should have just been a alternate ally option, so instead of includeing the normal imperial agent allys table you can substitute for a execution force of all 4 assassins with a couple of special options just for them added (i know allies dont normally get their codex's strats and enhacnements but jsut something special for the assassins, drop the extermus ability bits and just 4 strats focused on each of them)

[@Swampert919]

I feel like it would have been better if this detachment removed the epic hero keyword from the assasins and had the upgrades as optional enhancements… helps the price issue and honestly could be a fun meme army with multiple of the same assassin.

[@captaincoolbreeze9429]

I feel that each of the assassin's extremis abilities is overcosted by at least 20 points. Each one is an interesting ability but not worth 40 points, especially given that the Callidus Assassin's one is more of a fluffy rule rather than a practical one.

[@DrHooble]

It feels like everything in here should just be how they are normally. Like all those enhancements, for free, would not substantially change the calculus of bringing them, even as allies.

[@isaacgraff8288]

I am not sure the detachment is bad. Its the Codex.

[@niccolomiglio6996]

If I didn't know any better, I'd think they are making this army bad on purpose to delete it later on

[@kunndit989]

Let’s be real it’s GW, if they were planning on deleting soon they would have made it OP so that everyone buys up the rest of the models they have in stock.

[@DamienJones77]

Surprised it's gone this long without Marines appearing in the calendar!

[@israeldelarosa5461]

Didn’t we just get Deathwatch?

[@chaosclg]

expecting a bad one for knights, can see it being allies related since the codex is around the corner, they arent going to give us a juicy one for free

[@patriarch7237]

As written, the Callidus one is potentially very good. 40 points to let you instantly kill any infantry model on the board. Autarch, Farseer, Custodes captain, named character, whatever. Not so good if you are fighting a horde army perhaps, but even those usually have leaders. Useless against Knights, but that's Assassins anyway. 40 points means she already succeeded in whatever mission she had before the battle started. The damage she does to the enemy after that is a bonus. It's a take on one of the older editions version s of polymorphine which let you replace a regular infantry model (not heavy weapon, not character) - this version doesn't have that restriction.

[@許睿哲-w1g]

Bro,this enhancement kill YOUR OWN MODEL and replace it with the assassin.

[@brandonjeffries3638]

​@@許睿哲-w1gcould you imagine killing your own 45pts custodes models with this 🤣🤣🤣

[@patriarch7237]

@@許睿哲-w1g Thank you! Considerably less good then. If anything, it should probably be free considering you are giving up a model you have already paid for...

[@stephenhumphreys9149]

I feel that they'd have done better with just making the detachment into a combat patrol - just an execution force sent up against a small, high value enemy force would have been a fun little idea.

[@ElGrompho666]

I mean, is anyone even slightly surprised? From the way the codex is written, it's pretty obvious GW didn't actually want Agents to be a real army but rather wanted to clear out their warehouse instead. I highly doubt that army will be back in 11th, so no wonder they get another crappy detachment now. Not worth the effort it seems.

[@naughtiusmaximus1231]

How is it possible that GW released an Inquisition army without Stormtroopers or Landraider, both are iconic Inquisition units. Seems like GW didn't even try with this one.

[@AllAboutParker]

I was really excited when they announced this would be featured today, but it really feels underwhelming. I'm going to still and try to play with it if only because I like silly lists.

[@chaosheaven23]

My only theory is that some of the Agents in the balance patch will lose Epic Hero, to make this even a little bit viable.

[@thelegendsmith3063]

We all knew they were gonna get the worst just had hope lol😂😂

[@aloser8703]

In the assassin army could assassins at least cost less not more?

[@kunndit989]

It does make some sense that they would cost more so that a higher % of the army is the assassins but they should have actually made them strong enough to make it worth it, or be able to have more of them :/

[@jkellyid]

So my math makes this the: field half as many viable units as any other army detachment

[@mattm9087]

I want to play the IA so bad. I really do. As someone who's new to the tabletop game, I eagerly awaited the chance to play as an inquisitor barking orders to a requisitioned force of the emperor's finest warriors from across the imperium. The inquisition's authority knows no bounds, right? Wrong. GW: Here fans of the inquisition play with some very limited models from the imperium and some overly constrained rules. You have the authority of the emperor's will but uh yeah take these handful of allies and some kill teams and go nuts. Oh, and the inquisitors themselves? Yeah, those larger-than-life characters that have some really cool lore? Yeahhhh those characters are going to be super bland in game. The ones with cool abilities - ooo those are going to be very specific to target one enemy type. I just want to play as an Inquisitor raining hell down onto a battlefield, he saw fit to destroy. Heretics? Burn them! Xenos? Slaughter them! Deamons? Exterminatus! Instead, we got a bunch of pea shooters and very expensive assassins. Oh, and a rogue trader. We at least got that...

[@Fraudkuna9]

Wake Up Auspex! I need the breakdown on knights pls.

[@emdeo]

a detachment with a bigger downside than the Death Guard one? at least the Chaos Knights detach is fun.

[@jarrakul]

... having the detachment make its buffed units cost more is an interesting design decision, but when the buffs are fairly modest and could only affect four units from your army max, I'm not sure what the point is.

[@StarkMaximum]

Well, on average, the point is about +40 of them per model.

[@notsure8550]

Love the theme, hate the execution

[@samuraiscimitar]

I wouldn’t say hate, but I think it’s a miss in terms of hitting the fantasy. Free grenades strat on Culexus, Fights First on the Eversor, reduce that 2 CP strat to 1 and something for the vindicare and it’s pretty close

[@thesephist8973]

Would orbital oversight stop the attacks? It is after the unit has already been selected to be shot, so as I read this it doesn't stop the current unit shooting your unit, only other units from being able to select them now. It doesn't say anything about negating the selection already made. Or is there some rule elsewhere that gives reason to think it would force the unit to re-select targets?

[@jcmsaucey6555]

The CSM index had a similar stratagem for Nurgle units, once you use the strat they can pick another target right away or forgo shooting

[@thesephist8973]

Okay, did a search through the rules commentary and found where it states that changing eligibility does cause a unit to reselect. "Eligible Target (no longer eligible): If a unit that was an eligible target of an attack or charge when it was selected stops being an eligible target for that attack or charge (for example, because a rule enables it to make an out-of-phase move that takes it out of range), the attacking or charging unit can select new targets for those attacks or that charge."

[@OniGanon]

Really disappointing with focus on only 4 models in the army, with forced enhancements of dubious utility and seemingly lame stratagems.

[@prestonjohnson1537]

For the decoy targets, could you use it after using another unit's 3" deep dtrike ability? Like the inceptors?

[@prestonjohnson1537]

Also, micromelta rounds. The rifle gets devastating wounds with the shieldbreaker rounds ability. The 4+ would just deal flat damage to a knight or tank without them getting a save.

[@RiffSilverthe1andonly]

At least they added flash bangs to 40k

[@willywatch10]

Wait so this is ALL Agents get??

[@StrikerFox808]

IT WAS ME, DIO!!

[@brandonjeffries3638]

The vindicare presence on the board is almost enough for 155pts. Lol i really believe people forget hes designed to take out valuable targets with 1-2 shots across the map. Taking out 1-3 characters is worth it, especially against necrons and other character heavy armies... Also can you just take only the vindicare assassin for a 195pts and gain the buffs and strats as a ally? Or do you have to take all 4 assassins for the buffs? Edit: before I'm crucified lol I'm talking about casual game play not competitive.

[@seanbolster7603]

The points are just way too high for the detatchment. And not being able to double down on an assassin flavor in a detatchment that kinda only really helps assassins is disappointing.

[@thefloridaman41]

The detachment is fine the army is the issue. If it had just like Guard Tank access it would be playable. Also this detachment > Dark Angels detachment. That detachment is built like whoever made it didn’t know what the data sheets look like.

[@BaeBunni]

I'll be honest, yea it's not good but it atleast made me interested in playing imp agents which I think is a goal. Like yea the custodes one is objectively good but then it's just waiting for the pin to drop when they decide to nerf around the new detachment.

[@Cadllmn123]

Would it really have been so broken if they just made this wargear free in this detachment?

[@DeathInTheSnow]

I feel that a lot of these internal balance issues could be solved with some sort of, I don't know, inventory system that had independent points per item. Like, say, making individual guns in a unit cost different prices. Or maybe giving special characters access to some sort of _armoury_ that lets them be fine tuned for both gameplay and points balancing. But what do I know? I'm not a FTSE 100 company trying to please shareholders.

[@PhillipOnTakos]

Lower the price of each of the forced enhancements by like 20 points and I think it wouldn't be a good detachment but with this entire codex being such a flop this at least has potential to be fun.

[@Tank_Evans42]

I genuinely do not understand the hate for Imperial Agents. I have played with and against the faction a few times. Each game was far and away more enjoyable than most mainline meta lists out there. The army isn't powerful, I would even agree it is not a full faction, but IA units and detachments have fun abilities that make for an enjoyable change up. I would argue GW did a better job embracing the flavor of the faction more than most others in 10th.

[@OmegaLittleBob]

Super Strong? Probably Not, but it looks fun and that's all that matters. I don't think it was intended to be balanced for tournament level play

[@CarnageCoon]

i'd like to return this detachment, it's still sealed, yes a voucher for an army rule does fine what do you mean you don't sell army rules?

[@dominikfittschen2955]

The callidus in the Video has an once per Game ability and the Aura is gone. Is this an editing Error?

[@gideonkimbrel7181]

I don’t think every army/ detachment should be good for comp. Armies like this are fun and interesting, I would much rather these weird rules to something basic and powerful

[@martinnikolov38]

Shoulda just made the enhancements free, and slightly better

[@oliverp3545]

Unfortunately Agents just don't work as an army given how eclectic they are.

[@thefloridaman41]

They need Arbite vehicles badly. Give them like a Vindicator style siege tank and a Heavy tank and we might be able to cook as an army but right now they feel like bad Guard.

[@MattTrussell]

@@thefloridaman41 Just give them an Old World style rule where they can add in 25% of their points from any ally list. Having an Inquisitor NOT just take a tank or whatever he needs feels MORE lore breaking than souping does. "I am here to save your planet for the Emperor. I will be using your Baneblade, of course."

[@jimmicuss2667]

If it's fun then it isn't a fail

[@Vahkitauti]

A lack of power is after all much easier to fix than a lack of fun, and considering it was assassins, it could have been very unfunny indeed

[@michaelburke1023]

Not fun

[@plagueofjoe]

No one is having fun paying a thousand dollars for an army that can’t compete.

[@jimmicuss2667]

In my last tournament one of my friends brought an imperial agents list for poops and giggles. He lost every game, barely scored any points and had an absolute blast the whole day. So yeah, he was having great fun and i imagine he'll be looking at this detachment with glee.

[@Klierowski]

I mean this is bullshit compared to what nacrons got. But Assassins don't have the game designer playing their faction like nacron have.

[@gideonkimbrel7181]

I kinda like it

[@TheProteanGeek]

I think it sounds like a fun idea for a detachyand and the over focus on competition has made 40k less fun.

[@rantymcrant-pants9536]

Es-o-tear-rick

[@samrose9775]

Yay!!!

[@Damnedlegion40k]

Add a comment...😅

[@stevethegeckotv]

You need to stop looking at everything from a competitive point of view. A lot of these detachments look like fun for narrative play.

[@d-rex7043]

What's the narrative? Agents lose every time? ... that story gets boring, pretty quickly.

[@plagueofjoe]

No one has fun paying GW prices for a whole army and then finding it’s not competitive at all on the table.

[@ysbrann3059]

Of it s fun is that a fail ? Does every detzchement has to be competitive ? Even more in Imperial agent that seem to fit naratove play beter

[@calronkeltaran493]

depends how much fun you have, if you can never win thx to horrible rules. the idea of this is cool but if 1/3 of your points go into those assasins, they need to be extra amazing powerhouses. I want to feel how badass they suddenly become. the Idea is here but the execution is lacking

[@Trinine9]

It’s fine but a fail? Isn’t fun the point?

[@jordanvaldes628]

Wow i early 😁✌️✌️

[@shadowkynn]

Does he actually ever form his own opinion or is it just what he reads on reddit? Literally read this entire video a couple hours ago.

[@sheevpalpatine9532]

eww imagine going on reddit