Webisode 27: What makes an album Classic or Trash? | Dead End Hip Hop Ft. The Needle Drop

Dead End Hip Hop and The Needle Drop. Together. Why not? In discussing albums, the adjective "classic" has been used to describe a few albums here and there. On the flipside, you've heard the term "trash" just as much. Probably a little more than "classic" but hey, it's not our fault. We decided to pair up with The Needle Drop to discuss the application of such said terms. What makes an album classic and why? In addition, what would make an album trash? Tune in. Sit back. Click play. Watch. The Needle Drop. Dead End Hip Hop. Let's. Go. See you in the comment section!
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[@upshawjohn94]

My 4 steps to qualify an Album as a Classic 1. Cohesiveness 2. Acclaim 3. Impact 4. Longevity Recent Albums released in the 2010s decade that have classic potential My Beautiful Dark Twisted Fantasy good kid mAAd city To Pimp A Butterfly The Money Store Run The Jewels 2 Take Care Here are some albums/mixtapes that I think personally have classic potential as well but may not be to everyone Goblin Control System Channel Orange EARL Section .80 1999 Piñata Cadillactica Cilvia Demo Hell Can Wait Summertime 06

[@emssasukeisunderrated7946]

+upshawjohn94 Here's some other classics (I wouldn't put Take Care in there unless if the criteria is Drake is creating a lane no one in hip hop has done, even if he is as an MC below average) from the 2010s: BTW: I'd put 1999 and Piñata up there already. Channel Orange isn't hip hop, so I can't say whether it is on the R&B side a classic Killer Mike - R.A.P. Music EL-P - Cancer 4 Cure ElZhi - Elmatic Open Mike Eagle - Dark Comedy Saigon - Greatest Story Never Told Thurz - L.A. Riot Big KRIT - KRIT Wuz Here I think those have possibilities as well. I doubt Summertime 06. I do like Hell Can Wait though but yeah give Summertime 06 some time to marinate. To Pimp a Butterfly is honestly a top 25 hip hop album for me (that's hard to be in) but it deserves that. It's the best album of this decade in hip hop right now.

[@upshawjohn94]

+Sam Alexander the impact of Take Care is that it sort did do something different tbh in my opinion. Killer Mike's album could also be classic worthy as well like you said. Big Krit has a few other projects that people can throw in the convo as well depending on which one they like. I've heard Open Mike Eagle's last project and I thought it was cool not a huge fan but I respect him and I know he has a few good projects as well so yeah he could have one . I would throw Earl Sweatshirt's Doris in the convo and Tyler the Creator Bastard . And yes I'm a Odd Future fan but I do think those two are great projects just as good as Goblin and Earl. Shabazz Palaces and Clipping can also be mentioned

[@upshawjohn94]

+Sam Alexander I agree with you and TheNeedledrop To Pimp A Butterfly is the best album of the 2010s so far ... It has a 96 rating on metacritic which is the highest rated hip hop album of all time . Kendrick is my favorite rapper I may be biased

[@emssasukeisunderrated7946]

***** Me personally, not huge on Odd Future except Earl. I don't think there albums other than Earl have been good.

[@lgsteelo2142]

"Wolf" has more classic potential than "Goblin".

[@TheDeathMonkeyShow]

4:25 "People are saying Section.80 is a classic already". lol that's great to hear, little did they know how people would react to Kendrick's next albums...

[@JMEG.WAP-IA]

The opening gets me every time

[@slunkzilla]

SAME.. i TrIpPeD oVeR th... dog.. MY BAD SHIT!!!!!!!

[@mykectown]

@troyisMAJOR Yeah. I think we're looking at the term "classic" from a wider standpoint than what we might personally think is a great album. Classic is something that, when 20 years pass, and we're discussing the genre we can't purposely leave these albums out. Not just because they sounded good. But because they really made a mark.

[@rubydubus]

Black On Both Sides- Mos Def was a classic

[@melo4087]

Love that album bro!

[@theneedledrop]

@spcw4 definitely stuff like raekwon's only built for cuban linx, minor threat's entire discography, and the beach boys pet sounds. this stuff changed the way people wanna make music

[@Xxxangel773]

Beezy about to drop the next ruff riders video in the beginning

[@musiclover01ization]

Here are some albums that I think are definite classics: Cannibal Ox: "The Cold Vein" Eminem: "The slim shady lp" Company flow: "Funcrusher Plus" Aesop rock: "Labor days" MF DOOM: Operation Doomsday Outkast: atliens Jedi mind tricks: Violent by design There are other albums I could think of but these albums ,in my opinion ,are classics.

[@theneedledrop]

@Alternate511 glad you dug it! :-)

[@mykectown]

@tehjizz Definitely agree. Something can be considered "trash" when it comes out and then end up "classic" down the road. A reason I try not to use trash in our videos. But I may be guilty of it once or twice.

[@abnormalisdope]

OMG the intro was priceless. I'm glad yall did this discussion.

[@Discord67]

To me a classic is something of the highest quality in the genre. I don’t really see why I shouldn’t call My Beautiful Dark Twisted Fantasy, Oneirology and Elmatic classic albums, there just as good as any other classic Hip Hop album.

[@martinijazz9]

But what exactly is quality?

[@crackswareg135]

They have to be innovative in a way. Look at Joey Bada$$, his newest album is great but it won't be classic to the majority because he isn't being innovative, his influences (Wu-Tang Clan, Biggie, etc) are very much present in his lyrics, flow, instrumentals, and topics

[@parkinsaw]

Yeah why I think "classic" rap albums hard to say because, some of them that people thought were just great on release, sometimes later become changed to, severally underrated. (Liquid Swords/Atliens). To me Classic, it doesn't have to just change the genre it has to be the pinnacle of the genre. Like E1999 eternal, to me is sooooo close to be classic but falls just short. Illmatic, Low End, Midnight Marauders, 36 Chamber, Liquid Swords, Cuban Linx, are just a few that are classic. Now where it becomes hard are the ones that are so close you can make an argument either way, like as I suggested E1999 Eternal, and Nas, The Lost Tapes. To me though if you have to make an argument sorry doesn't make the cut.

[@kennithbinge]

@baglepants Thanks for watching homie!! Glad you enjoy our shows.

[@encdee]

i think what are yall are talking about as far as "not being dated" is like what i was saying about inspiration. Genuine inspiration and creativity is what is timeless. The uniqueness of an artists work when they are inspired can always be appreciated.

[@GamingBender]

Oh wow, this is this great! I love both channels.

[@mykectown]

@MisanthropikOne We'd love to have you on, bruh! Anyone with MHz in their intro gets instant cred in my book. Talk about a classic album?! Anyway, thanks for the comment, homie.

[@PooWop360]

Ok MM FOOD is a Classic

[@emssasukeisunderrated7946]

+PooWop360 Along with Madvillain, DOOMsday

[@upshawjohn94]

Agree 👍🏾👍🏾

[@carnegiejones2049]

realshit DOOM the truth

[@crackswareg135]

I prefer Madvillany

[@JosukeHigashikata44]

There both classics though, at least underground classics. Operation Doomsday too

[@Tharman2108]

Great episode. I think more than any fans of music, hip hop fans get really obsessed on what is and what isn't classic to the point that the music doesn't even matter any more. I think a classic must be a game changer. It may be great musically but if no one pays attention then it isn't going to go down in the history books.

[@kennithbinge]

@mykectown I see where this guy is coming from. If I hear a discussion of Blu or people referring to albums of high regards, BTH comes up. Right now, I think it is stuck in "Great" gear and hasn't quite shifted to "Classic" yet. I can see it becoming a staple in discussion years from now. This is one that may truly take some time to manifest.

[@HipHop226]

Common album BE is a classic

[@reignisraw]

20:36 "So you're basically saying the west is dead then" LMAO

[@buhdahwee]

@mykectown okay I take that point but also consider, in the case of Brenda's Got A Baby, that message is not old or What's Going On? that message isn't old either because it still applies, now also consider that a lot of hip hop production these days are using old sounds from old drum machines and old synths etc... for me the lines are blurred and its not that clear cut when calling music dated. I understand that it isn't an insult but I feel the term misrepresents at times.

[@nateparker93]

Awesome. my two favorite music critic channels together!

[@navebucketdude]

lol ant looked so chill. I was waiting for this team up!

[@Call_Me_Jacob]

I can already feel this being a classic episode!

[@jakhayter]

Talking about social media this Shad lyric springs to mind "Maybe I'm not big 'cos I don't blog or Twitter... dog I'm bitter"

[@kennithbinge]

@fitzcannon We just started so we'll get there. Thanks for spreading the word! And thanks for watching!

[@1Grandsun]

In my opinion, I think a hip hop "Classic album" should consist of a few simple things unforgettable material, some substance, descriptive lyricism displayed through stories, and having little to no collabs, because the less collabs you have gives the listener a better in-depth and personal view of who the artist is and what he's saying, case in point; Illmatic, The Blueprint, The Untouchable, Me against the world, Ready to die, etc.

[@mykectown]

@troyisMAJOR Yeah, I see your point. But not sure if Below The Heavens is really considered a classic. I, personally, LOVE that album, but not sure if made enough noise. But maybe I'm wrong. It was cool among me and my friends, but I didn't pay that much attention to it outside of my circle, you know.

[@kennithbinge]

@navebucketdude And you got it! Could be more lined up if you all want to see us do more combo shows.

[@mykectown]

@relapsin Wow. Nothing in the past 10 years has wowed you? El-P - Fantastic Damage, Atmosphere - God Loves Ugly, Busdriver - Fear of a Black Tangent, Brother Ali - Shadows On The Sun, Dead Prez - Let's Get Free, Immortal Tech - Revolutionary Vol 1. I could go on for days. I consider all of these classics.

[@kennithbinge]

@Alternate511 Uh, I kind of had a hand in it. Thanks for watching and glad you enjoyed it!

[@Naomi468]

shout out to Ken for the Kind of Blue and Love Supreme references....those are CLASSIC ASS ALBUMS!!!

[@NiZzSentineTv]

Wow you guys really managed to collab with The needle Drop. 2 of my fav Album Review Subscriptions in one Vid. I Fucks with dead End hip hop for real. Keep up the good work and yeah Like Anthony said Lil B isn't too good of a rapper but he is funny as hell SWAG.lol

[@tehjizz]

it is very hard to predict whether a current album is going to become a classic album or not. There are lots of classic albums that were misunderstood and hated when they were released, because they were so different and so original.

[@VertMade]

beezy's dog looks cool af

[@mykectown]

@troyisMAJOR Now, again, BTH may have done that. I didn't pay attention to critics enough to notice. But that album could be considered classic based on the sound. What really sounded like that? Exile's production combined with Blu's introspective lyrics. It could also be considered classic because it was really the world's official introduction to Blu. He had mixtapes, of course, but they didn't propel him like BTH did. So, yeah, I'm with you. It's definitely debatable.

[@mykectown]

@kingmathers15 Yeah, we discussed that earlier in the comments. I totally agree with that and I wish we'd said that in the video. An album can totally bring a genre back to relevance.

[@Threecreation]

Kickass intro. xD To me I think that for an album to be "classic" it should build on whatever has been built in a genre. Or it needs to be historical aka something that really changed the face of a genre. But everyones got their own definition for classics. Thats just mine. GREAT VIDEO AS ALWAYS!

[@Itscliffbooth]

To me, a classic has to be Iconic. It's album cover needs to be instantly recognisable, the sound of it too. An album can be 7/10 and still be classic, it doesn't need to be a masterpiece

[@TERRELLTURNER1999]

Austin McDonald eh

[@mykectown]

@soranaru One of my all time favorite bands. Going to see them next month. Pretty excited.

[@kennithbinge]

@Naomi468 Classic is personal on some level. For instance, some may not consider Nas's Illmatic as a classic album because they may not personally like it or understand it. Pink Floyd's Dark Side of the Moon is another one that people may not herald as a classic as well. Classic, however, becomes a staple over time is highly regarding for years to come so even if one is unable to connect with it personally, a high number of people from multiple generations all cosign it as classic.

[@kennithbinge]

@BlackStarKeepShining Haha. Thanks for watching! It was a dope intro. I loved it.

[@chrissmith-vc3ux]

Marshall mathers lp, illmatic , reasonable doubt, ready to die, all eyes on me, get rich or die tryin,

[@kennithbinge]

@kiethebailey Thanks for watching!

[@tehjizz]

there are some aspects of humanity that don't change over time. our emotions, our faults. that's why so many songs, books and films are still relevant today and still apply to modern times. that's will tupac's lyrics are still socially relevant.

[@mikesbruv]

Funcrusher Plus FTW, for me that album fulfills all the criteria of a classic, @Kinge music that crosses generations is definitely a must for an album to be defined as classic

[@HeruBeay]

To Me What Makes An Album A Classic Is 1. If The Lyrical Content Is Memorable 2. Good Storytelling Tracks (Not Predictable Words That I Can Come Up With) 3. Top Notch Production (It Feels Like A Million Dollar Project) 4. You Can Still Come Back To Album And It Still Gives You The 1st Feeling Of Buying The Album . 5. Humors Tracks That Leave You Reciting It "Bar For Bar" There's More Examples But Thats What I Look For In a Album. If You Giving Me MainStream/Commercial Crap, I Dont Wanna LISTEN

[@Warstub]

I love how all these guys just love sitting around and talking about this shit.

[@mykectown]

@blashthumm Not sure I agree with that. There are lots of classic records that don't really typify the genre. Especially the more esoteric releases. I can't really see an Aesop Rock, Antipop Consortium or El-P record really representing the genre enough for a newbie to decide if hip hop is cool. Or for a Minor Threat or Operation Ivy album to represent punk enough for a newbie to know if he/she wants to be a punk. I think it's a little deeper than that.

[@mykectown]

@baidawi I think you're getting confused the same way Feefo was. Dated: unfashionable; outmoded; Old-fashioned; out-of-date. It has nothing to do with relevance. Saying music is dated simply means it's old. The sound is old, the message is old...it's overall...old. It doesn't mean it's not good. Disco is dated because it uses sounds typical of that time period. It doesn't mean that YMCA can't be put on today and enjoyed. Something being dated isn't an insult. It's a description.

[@theneedledrop]

@avarshay you know you know you know...derp

[@mykectown]

@baidawi Totally agree with you. But you're still thinking the same way that Feefo was. We weren't saying that ALL of Pac's music is dated. That would be super ignorant coming from a Pac fan. Of course, the message of Brenda's Got A Baby isn't dated. The sound is. Or listen to Picture Me Rollin. I LOVE that song...but it's dated, bro.

[@Naomi468]

the intro is absolutely hilarious!!

[@remix16ification]

You sound like a new fan of Hip-Hop. What about Tha Carter III, The Eminem Show, Get Rich Or Die Tryin, Speakerboxx/The Love Below, The Black Album, The College Dropout, Madvillainy, Food & Liquor, & Graduation? And that's only about half. I agree that GKMC & MBDTF were classics, but those are not the only two.

[@mykectown]

@coolnesss16 You're right about Pac. But I hear people mention his albums, too.

[@ChewyNature]

This is a solid group of reviewers.

[@chrisshavard]

"We can bang on shit and it can be music." Quote of the day

[@JunkyardGod89]

Agreed, two of my favourite channels! This is awesome!

[@Rawk4Life]

I would love to hear a commentary by Ed Lover and Doctor Dre on what they think qualifies a hip hop album as a classic. They hosted Yo! MTV Raps for many years, so why not?

[@mambo4dude]

my two favourite youtube channels combined!

[@JS121]

808's is a classic

[@emssasukeisunderrated7946]

+Jonathan Serrano Disagree. Kanye's classics are College Dropout, Late Registration, Graduation and MBDTF.

[@crackswareg135]

Not really, good singles tho

[@donttouchtheac8651]

Great album but not a classic imo

[@emssasukeisunderrated7946]

***** Late Registration he perfected the style that he was going for on College Dropout imo. I think that's his best overall project also.

[@emssasukeisunderrated7946]

***** Well, that's a good thing they sound different. Late Registration is to me the perfection of what he was getting at on Late Registration and Graduation wasn't as good though I enjoy that album. Game changer is one thing but just comparing albums on overall projects (not impact, since 808s has a good argument in impact) I would say Late Registration is his best. College Dropout and MBDTF next. Hey, I think we can all agree 808s is a very strong project and WAY BETTER than that trash called Yeezus (and Watch the Throne).

[@sojirokaidoh2]

Popularity doesn't matter in this case. If someone's putting together some music, even if it's underground, if someone hears it and enjoys it, it may very well influence that person's own music, thus in some small ways changing the game. That underground artist or album could go on to greatly influence particular circles of fans, potentially creating a new sub-category within hip-hop.

[@tmriddle]

Pink Floyd - The Dark Side Of The Moon. That's an objective classic, regardless of personal opinion, it is timeless and perfect.

[@glenn8612]

So when I thought about it and filtered everything you guys said, I realized i learned something. I was right about a classic album being timeless but I learned that you guys were right about it being a game changer. I hate to say it @beezy430 but Soulja Boy first album is a classic. He set the standard for a new sound in hiphop. Help me out?

[@FreshHeat]

@mykectown Thanks man, I'm glad you guys are real people

[@buddy1v]

its funny how alot of the conversations go back to lil b lol thank you basedgod.......keep up the good convos guys i watch all your stuff

[@martinijazz9]

The Eminem Show is a classic. The versatility required to make such a record is very high.

[@parmar__12]

Definitely classic,such versatility, lyricism, production,flow , Content Just great

[@VarsityAthlete04]

Eminem's last classic

[@kennithbinge]

@tmriddle Man. One of the best albums I ever found in my Dad's collection. I was mad he never told me to listen to it!

[@UBERradLLAMA]

I would LOVE to sit around and talk hip-hop with you guys.

[@MisanthropikOne]

@mykectown No doubt.

[@MrReman23]

I think the reason we like Section.80 is because it's like a jewel. It was an indie release and not many people in the mainstream knew about it. It was gold, it was rare But if good kid was released this same way I think we'd love it even more.

[@mykectown]

@lemonlimelukey Gotta say...it was a fun conversation. Hopefully more to come.

[@kennithbinge]

@Cobhammar Appreciate it homie!

[@mykectown]

@thatguyseb Wow. And overseas dap comin your way!

[@buhdahwee]

I dont think you can say something is dated if it is still relevant. To say something is dated I think implies a sense of it no longer being relevant and of course, old. Something can be old and not dated.

[@unknownmulatto]

snap... glad to hear C-Town bring up Swans... but they weren't just banging on pots man...

[@IntuitiveMindsMusic]

needle drop is incredibly smart

[@YusefOtesh8880]

You guys should do an episode on foreign/UKrap. Trust me, UK has some good artists.

[@mykectown]

@HomesliceSym Why I gotta be Martian Manhunter? That's cold. I'm not strict and stern. I just appear that way on camera. Plus, I've been on alcohol restriction for almost 2 weeks.

[@kennithbinge]

@Threecreation Good point man.

[@Call_Me_Jacob]

Is there any album/project that has come out in the last five years or so, you guys would consider classic by now? I could personally think a few albums that I personally feel that way about, maybe those specific projects didn't change anything on their own, but I feel like they've been the major project coming from a new style. I'm a youngin' though, so I might not have the perspective whether those projects are on that level, cuz I haven't experienced that many in my time listening to music.

[@kennithbinge]

@GamingBender Thanks man!

[@navebucketdude]

@Kingemedia I would seriously like that. I always wanted the music reviewer to kind of team up.

[@kennithbinge]

@momowii No. That makes it a trend. It's a different. His was more of a sound added to the music. Think Disco or Funk.

[@NJ609B]

For me, a classic album doesnt have to be timeless with its message. When I put on Doggystyle or The Chronic, I am really taken back to that 90's westcoast rap but both of those albums contain many disses towards Eazy-E so the message dosen't carry the same weight in 2011. But both those albums are classic to me because they captured the heart and soul of that time period.

[@filipr700]

EPIC! This is what the internet was made for.

[@GreatestOfAllTime5]

@corcon5 And the sound of that song will always be popular, especially now. I believe if dre and pac released that song in 2011 as the first single to Detox it would be a top 5 hit.

[@kennithbinge]

@relapsin There have been some classic albums dropped since then. That's a big statement.

[@GeorgeOscarBluthII]

So, a classic album changes the genre in someway, even if it sounds like garbage. What about that album that masters the initial change? Is that considered a classic too then?

[@encdee]

classic for me means first of all, an artists must be mining real inspiration. An artist giving vent to their inherent creativity which they have refined to their best ability FIRST & FOREMOST out of their own love for it, is a fundamental necessity for anything reach or deserve "classic" status. When this is so rich that the very extent of peoples appreciation for the very genre itself is changed - CLASSIC. inspiration and imitation are two polar opposites. asfa trash goes, dont get me started

[@mykectown]

@relapsin Yeah, I don't agree with #3. An album doesn't have to be relevant to the mainstream in order to be considered a classic.

[@bandicoot2ps1]

@Makkiakelli Based off what they're saying Hip Hop is Dead is a Classic,So far Gone is a Classic and the Blueprint 3 is a classic.Hip Hop is dead made dudes step up lyrically and socially(now everyone says it's not dead and they're keeping it alive),SFG made mixtapes sound like albums and not just tracks,and BP3 changed radio because there's damn there no more autotune if Myke C is right

[@kennithbinge]

@baidawi Wouldn't that old sound automatically infer a certain time period?

[@reignisraw]

Rod used to be a maniac with the camera with them close ups hahaha

[@LiLWindex69]

Once he called lil b trash I closed the tab.

[@Officialicy]

DeadEndHipHop for life!

[@JACKDULUOZ11]

Swans weren't the first band to bang on shit and release it as an album. The Red Krayola, Captain Beefheart, Art Ensemble of Chicago and a bunch of other artists were doing it in the sixties.

[@coc0be4n77]

What do you guys feel about the term instant classic? is it applicable to a section.80 or a Goblin?

[@ADAJ3KINGANGEL]

Quality has to be apart of the criteria or Chief Keef has already made classics because of the impact he's made, whether his music was quality or not.