Why would you oppose Universal Basic Income?

[@squadalahhh]

Yang 2020. RIP Scarcity mindset, hello abundance mindset

[@fallennate]

naw, hello peace of mind

[@nevershoutgraham2297]

Hello inflation

[@fallennate]

​@@nevershoutgraham2297 that's not how inflation works. There's no money being created, it's being redirected at various stages. simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inflation www.avalara.com/vatlive/en/vat-news/vat-causes-inflation.html

[@nevershoutgraham2297]

RDSNate inflation is not strictly due to the Fed. It coincides with the prices consumers can pay for goods.

[@nevershoutgraham2297]

james votaw prices would rise as consumers would have more money to purchase goods, increasing demand and thus the price. If not that then the VAT may be passed to consumers. In both scenarios the real income of all individuals decreases causing inflation. I’m not sure how modifying ssi or ssdi would pan out as the base system is flawed and set up like a Ponzi scheme.

[@maxam2083]

Go yang! 👍

[@estebannemo1957]

Yang is da thang.

[@austinmenezes8074]

YANG GANG 2020

[@theartemisgland]

only if you explain to me how prices will not adjust to a new level of disposable income rendering UBi effect null without destroying economy in 2-5 years afterwards

[@austinmenezes8074]

@@theartemisgland Yangs explained this before, all businesses would have to make sure they all brought up the price of a certain item the same amount, otherwise they're just competing against each other like always, if a couple tire shops prices go up by 200% no one's gonna go to those places until they cut that bullshit because there are other shops that wont do that.

[@theartemisgland]

@@austinmenezes8074 sadly economy is not only tyre shops. Its multibillion dollar conglomerates that depend on investors who by their role in the economy loose wealth the more the currency is debased. Which means they will ask for more returns from companies they invest in. In return those companies will increase prices to cover for higher interest rates from banks and private investors. How will he deal with those buisinesses? Also how will he deal with companies that pass higher tax level onto consumer through price increase? Which any and all companies always do

[@austinmenezes8074]

@@theartemisgland could he break up these conglomerates?

[@theartemisgland]

@@austinmenezes8074 no, because if he tries they will either move out or counter-lobby his opponents into oblivion.

[@eternalzoom5039]

We Yang gang we Yang Gang we Yangin...2020

[@thedynamicpanda6830]

Why do I feel like that's a SpongeBob reference 😂?

[@Wuprrr]

@@thedynamicpanda6830 It's a reference to Chippass- Yang Gang

[@glenc5185]

7:53 "The emancipatory value of a basic income is greater than the money value."

[@eugeniebreida]

That is golden, there is nothing like freedom - if only freedom from fear of abject starvation/homelessness. We must start somewhere, everyone will start at a different spot, but with UBI of Yang, it would be $1000/month, 18 yrs til death. What a de-stresser.

[@3089280288]

@@eugeniebreida What??

[@tclmac1]

Well said... well said.

[@Minadarling119]

If you allow people to search for jobs they want to do, you increase production because now your country is made up of individuals who are passionate about doing a certain task

[@Tannkscape]

don't say this too loudly. It makes sense, and our government seems to do the exact opposite when it comes to logical solutions.

[@unknownx7252]

@@Tannkscape 😂😂😂

[@theartemisgland]

This makes no sense whatsoever. Hysteresis of unemployment rate cannot be solved by giving people some cash. It will make companies offer higher wages to currently employed rather than hiring outdated skills labour and the prices of goods and services will rise which will cause all the not so free cash have zero effect as it is taken through prices to pay for higher salaries of currently employed professionals.

[@theartemisgland]

@@Tannkscape talking logic with yang.... yeah rright

[@jeroentje58]

@@theartemisgland Wow! So I would get UBI and then my boss will start to pay me more too!? I would get rich :) Or am I missing your logic?

[@levelazn]

#yang2020

[@GodManCan]

It's information like this that makes me realize Andrew Yang is a genius.

[@OlJackBurton]

He should have been on the panel...

[@christinevr7698]

I like the idea of unconditionality. Taking a job JUST for the sake of having a job doesn’t make sense. I know it flies in the face of the pervasive Protestant work ethic, but giving people the total freedom to choose how they use the funds can make many choices open that don’t make money in the traditional way, even though lots of work is involved; taking care of children, taking care of the elderly, or sick... or for that matter doing creative work like painting or writing for example. Large segments of the population are NOT entrepreneurs. Many many people will still work or find better work. I find it interesting that the Portuguese politician raises concerns about political futures... I think taxing the corporations or tech people should pay into the system. I think Prof Standing has the clearest approach, based on actual pilot results.

[@mischa1880]

Your critical thinking must be on a level of a naive 5 year old child.

[@christinevr7698]

mischa1880 Spoken like someone that doesn’t care to read the current research because they have a closed mind.

[@bigfan1041]

You're only looking at potential positives. That makes absolutely no sense.

[@mikejohnson9606]

@@christinevr7698 how are you going to pay for it.

[@christinevr7698]

Chadwicked B if we could actually tax appropriately the top 1% and top corporations then, and close tax haven loopholes, in fact, programs like these would be fully funded.

[@israelking9835]

Yang 2020

[@Dannycky96]

Yang gang

[@TheTinminator]

Yang is the way to go. I believe it will do more good than Evil. Sho, I know I will stress less. I always worry about money

[@rongants6082]

Get a job. Works for me.

[@antwarior]

@@rongants6082 jobs alone dont work if u havent heard , basic income will help with getting him a job or anything he wants to do, jobs are actually dieing if you havent noticed that also, in the next 15 years, your comment will look more silly and stupid than it does now

[@nickraoyj]

@@rongants6082 the point of this panel (if you even watched it), is that even if you already have a job, you would still benefit from the emacipatory value of a UBI on top of what you already earn, thus freeing you up financially to make more value-creative spending decisions and be able to afford any unexpected bills (e.g. healthcare costs) which you would otherwise not have been able to if you were living literally paycheck to paycheck.

[@briandbeaudin9166]

@@rongants6082 a flippant and rather unhelpful statement. If you've been listening, many people are unable to make it on the incomes from their jobs- if they can get one. Other people for various reasons may be unable to work. Many jobs have no benefits, no retirement packages and low wages. I had an employer, years ago, who stiffed me for all my overtime for one summers work (20+ hours per week). If I had known I wasn't going to get paid for all the overtime I would have worked that extra time at another job! That was a crushing loss. A UBI program would have really taken the sting out of that situation

[@Journey-nb6ur]

This is required viewing for all YangGang members.

[@yeezynapkins2970]

UBI is the great unifier of society. It's beyond free market dogma, it's beyond communism. UBI must be larger than just subsistence payments. What we don't want is to keep everyone on borderline welfare just so the neoliberal class can continue an endless shuffling of funds right back into their own hands. UBI must be a leveling program. Money is power and power has to be reined in. If there is any condition that UBI has to be based on, it is civic duty: voting.

[@loanauditscal]

Exactly. UBI as stated to be implemented by Yang is just a way to placate the mobs so that they won't torch the rich. Listen to how he downplays Big Tech abuses and how he focuses or truck rebellions. He's not telling you about a lot of other data, including more limits to copyright and patents which would rein in runaway 1% of 1% income aggregation.

[@xemy1010]

Well said. UBI doesn't cater to any ideology, it directly addresses the issue.

[@xemy1010]

@@loanauditscal Yang's UBI amount is bigger than any other proposal being floated anywhere else in the world as of 2019.

[@dewaynethomas3122]

@@loanauditscal This is exactly why it didn't pass congress twice in the 70's. Democrats complained that the money wasn't enough and they forgot about it. Don't fuck this up again. He's planning on raising it to 2000 as automation starts to boost the economy more.

[@yamaha6501982]

@mr niceguy ...with zero criminality and welfare and shooting etc ...

[@AzureRook]

They should’ve invited Rutger Bregman and Andrew Yang 😆

[@markschmidty]

Yang 2020! #YangGang #FreedomDividend

[@ALEXFVHS]

Yang2020!!!

[@rainieresguerra7486]

Yang 2020. A 21st century POTUS with a 21st century mindset. He clearlr understands both old problems and 21st century challenges we all face and offers sensible solutions to those problems and challenges.

[@Carmilaish]

I am Portuguese and I want to apologize for the representation of my country in this debate (the bald individual); But as a matter of understanding, I want to remind you that Portugal came out of a dictatorial regime not too long ago (40 years ago we lived under a dictatorial regime). hence the Portuguese position with regard to UBI is explained by a essentially psychological factor: in short, we are still afraid of being happy and the notion of freedom is still new to us. Grow up mr Augusto Santos Silva.

[@bones007able]

Would it do away with people begging on the streets? Homelessness? then it is a good thing ...

[@jacobe1942]

well for one thing, people begging would have a harder time convincing people to give knowing they are getting a basic income. thus the reward for begging would go down and hopefully people would find a more meaningful purpose, and have the resources and time to do so.

[@kitgames1174]

There are homeless people that are homeless because they don't have the capability to manage paying bills and all the other things "normal" people manage, and I mean Manage, even if they had the money they still could not keep their head straight enough to keep track. I imagine homeless people with major mental health issues will still be homeless, unless people help them manage the things they can't. But even then, people also become comfortable with their living conditions, and they may not feel comfortable living within walls. But it should reduce begging and homelessness, by a lot.

[@chatryna]

@@kitgames1174 Yeah I manage the life of a homeless man and it frees him up to be more homeless. I agree.

[@glenc5185]

#Yang2020 yang2020.com

[@suebowman7258]

I love this Economist! He makes sense!!! Damn. he has common sense!

[@terrafirma2837]

I just hope this can be taken on by the rest of the world. This will stop this vast economic migration. I hope US will take a lead on this for the rest of the world to follow

[@WestCoastPA]

I think one of the best things about UBI that is not mentioned as much as it should be is the extremely large wave of positive effects it would have on our society. So many problems that we face, crime, substance abuse, marital issues, etc. are caused in large by economic stress. Can you imagine how much a UBI would improve the mental health of this country? It's obviously not a cure-all policy, but it is the biggest step we can take forward at this time.

[@kamra99a]

From long experience with money and happiness I can confidently assert that the opposite of happiness is anxiety, and the most common source of anxiety is income insecurity.

[@Brian-dg3gh]

That is also the easiest source of anxiety to fix. Get a better job or work more. Make better decisions.

[@SHPNGGUY736]

We cant trust the rich! LOL!

[@carjaune6793]

Why is that guy playing with his phone the whole time? Anyway. Yang 2020.

[@cccarlossr]

I was about to make a comment about that when I read yours lol 😁. How rude. I think. Yang 2020

[@victorakandu9419]

BEYOND ALL YOU ARE SAYING.... THINK ABOUT THE ORDINARY PEOPLE THAT HAVE NOTHING! IT ENHANCES FREEDOM! THE FIRST SPEAKER IS THE REAL DEAL HERE... HE HAS THE BEST CONTRIBUTIONS TO THE DISCUSSIONS.

[@lasserbream]

Yangs version is better...

[@Heinz-Friedrich]

Yes minimun wages doenst work. Its not realistic and difficult to reach someone in need. The boss just pay less than the minimun wage per hour. How can the goverment control that. UBI is the right key. Wish you luck from germany. Please bring it to to world soon

[@gloriafarmer6826]

According to experts, UBI works!

[@tubularap]

It's October 26, 2019 - Yang2020 !!!

[@stormwatcher59]

Now it is 10-30-19 and still YANG 2020!!!!! ;)

[@tvdeth]

23:30 HEAR HEAR this is so ... onderbelicht in dutch imho this is one of the most revolutionairy benefits of a UUBI (as in : creating change)

[@NaNa-nu9sf]

Hardcore Absolute Fact: All human beings ( living soul beings ) are 100% sovereign, 100% free ( not obligated to serve any man/woman ), 100% free to live on The land, sea, air of God!!!! God made everything free! Therefore; you have the right to live free and live life with absolute dignity!!!!!

[@foundseeker4161]

The only way UBI would make sense is if it completely replaces the welfare system we have already. And I do not believe it makes sense to be paying people who earn lots of money a payment. Basic Income should be regressive, meaning the more you earn the less you get. Why would you give a millionaire a $1000 check a month? It's stupid and wasteful

[@Brian-dg3gh]

The millionaire would be paying way more in taxes than they are receiving so calm down you’re still screwing rich people.

[@robertleece7962]

To the lady speaking about work I ask when AI takes my job will I be able to find a job?

[@gbat2479]

With UBI there will be less hostility against minorities and the poor who are currently receiving benefits. If we all receive some kind of income from the government we will all be receiving something so we don't feel a sense of things being extremely unfair. Some people receive more benefits tax free than I make working full time. That upsets me if the size of their benefits are that big such as Section 8 $2,400 per month tax free and food stamps of $300 per month tax free per person because it makes me feel stupid for working. Why are the poor with kids benefit so much more than everyone else? They are being disincentivised from improving their lives because they will lose a substantial amount of free money if they do.

[@starsforsupper]

g bat the yang plan is to either choose your current benefits or the dividend but not both so someone cannnot take out the system

[@gbat2479]

@@starsforsupper Yes that's why people will like it. They can't complain if others get welfare or section 8 because they are also getting assistance. We will all be benefitting not just a few people.

[@Sky-ce5hn]

YANG 2020 UBl basic income Humanity first

[@robstumpf]

It’s a completely insane idea.

[@ChristineCircelli]

The only reason someone would oppose UBI is because they're selfish.

[@daurenasrymbetov2382]

Hello Yanggang

[@billing3609]

The whole idea under yang policy is that the jobs for retail sales, trucking, call centers, etcetera will be gone with the automation. UBI or freedom dividends will be used for that matter. How the money is funded which is from VAT and others. It is modern era robinhood.

[@ruthgl2650]

Every study shows the same thing the money spent on these programs saves money in healthcare,mental stability,drug and alcohol abuse because the stress and health of bad food,having a safe place to live changes for the people that get it.They are not stuck in a part time bad job ,they earn the right to choose a profession or going to school.There is no longer a fear to hold people back.

[@mrzack888]

Federal Annuity for ALL!! Decrease it if you are convicted of crimes. You get a bonus at the end of the year for safe driving and helping out the community.

[@gjingodjango]

Should have just let Proff Standing talk.

[@yongchenseng4739]

If your rich and u are trying to stop those who are not of getting a help you have a wrong mind set ... UBI is the way ...

[@rohitrai6187]

Was looking for this Real debate rather than shadow boxing Would have liked it to be a more challenging one though

[@michaelzapien9117]

?????? Yang is a blessing.

[@maybeapacifist]

1st question Woman: Why don't the men go first? Men: Okay! Haven't watched it yet, just the first question, but lmao on that

[@ladybird1645]

In U.S.A., public welfare recipients are encourage to go find a job. But recepients said that we don't have the proper wardrobe for the job interview. So the government allocated funds to the government welfare programs who were given the funds to help welfare recipients purchase new clothing for the job interview. But the government employees used that money to buy clothes at a Thrift Stores. And several of these government employees who were suppose to buy new wardrobes for welfare recipients asked people to donate their old office wardrobes including shoes, purses, but majority of the size collected were either too big or or too small of the size and smell like dirty armpits and the shoes were too old and even have spiders in them. Needless to say it didn't work. The government spent that money to help welfare recipients to have proper clothing for job interview did not materialize.. It was apparent that whoever the government employees who were assigned to do their job squandered the money for their own benefit. If the money was given directly to each would-be job interviewee and went to the mall or other big clothing stores and let them buy the size that fits them would be more realistic. They're not that expensive. Of course have to buy not the popular labels are way more cheaper than clothing that are advertised with the pictures of the models wearing them. The popular clothing manufacturers therefore have to 90% times' increase the prices of their clothing so that they can afford to hire the people modeling their clothing. No wonder models makes millions in income. That is why UNIVERSAL BASIC INCOME is very important so the welfare recepients can buy their own clothes that fits well for the job interview.

[@foreverfamily3775]

Theirs always that possibility that these ubi experiments have false results but I don’t see the harm of my mom my dad getting 1,000$ a month to take care of those bills of unforeseen bills like for example car repairs damages to a house that’s been around for 30 plus years might need work and the kids getting a sum amount of money just for going to school what kid wouldn’t do that positives I just don’t see any negatives thats not already around without it

[@dewaynethomas3122]

The only UBI test that was considered a failure was the Finland experiment. And that was solely based on giving unemployed people roughly 500 US dollars a month. It didn't include also giving it to employed. And the entire experiment was based on how it effected employment numbers, which it didn't effect negatively or positively. So was it even a failure? Not the way I see it. The citizens were reported to be a hell of a lot happier and healthier. Every positive statistic went up besides the one they were looking at.

[@aatt3209]

I love the idea of trusting people to increase their resilience facing the stress associated with daily life, so what happened in North Carolina where a pilot plan was tried? does un-conditional UBI include tolerance of violence, hatred, threats, bigotry, etc? can someone discuss the outcome and lessons learns by trying this pilot plan in greater details?

[@annie7381]

It would act how things already do. We have freedom of speech. Take it away from someone, and suddenly no one is allowed to have an opinion or state facts that could potentially offend/trigger others. The only thing freedom of speech does not cover is inciting violence, because that isn't simply speech, that is a call to action. And people incarcerated wouldn't receive a UBI, so that'll help keep some out of prison, as well as give people freshly out of prison a chance to make it in this world and not just end right back up in prison.

[@velara314]

16:04 “The stigma point is such a critical point. Here are two stories about that...”

[@tamy815]

I think the experiments done in countries like in Finland is not accurate at all. Because it was performed for a specific period of time, and the people in the experiment knew that. And that is crucial imo. It is psichologically different to receive umi for a known, specific period of time or for all life.

[@searose6192]

In the US mandating children be placed in public school would not only be entirely implausible politically, but also deeply problematic as our schools are positively dreadful and the few children whose parents are capable of offering them an alternative superior education should be free to do so without additional financial burden.

[@cashmeoutsidehowbowdat6452]

The _ONLY_ thing wrong with "public school" is the incredibly *STUPID* people who you are forced to have to interact with and sit in a classroom with!

[@savannah6728]

Checking in from Yang Gang

[@searose6192]

It is absolutely necessary that it be both purely universal and you must have at least a 1/2 portion for each child as well otherwise you are once again generating disparity by easing the burden of people who are single or in couples, and still leaving families with children under substantial strain especially when they will be forced into the vastly different labor market to survive where as single people and couples will be free to take the jobs that please them. This would be devastating to the health and well-being of families.

[@Buckzoo2030]

Is free money fish or fishing rod?

[@Kipperbob]

I've read quite a lot about this topic and have yet to hear anything that goes to the proper capitalist nature of our democratic western societies, I think that we need to take a proper approach here, my idea is to consider our governance as the board of management in a company that we all own, we are the owners and shareholders of our country, the land and seas within the borders are in the possession of this company, I'm inclined to consider it as our property management company and our government as the board of management that we the shareholders elected. The government should be taking rent for the commercial use of our land and seas and this money paid as dividend to we shareholders, This would be perfectly compatible with free market capitalism, we own the company that sets out the rules under which all other companies must operate, Welfare is a socialist idea which will always create significant issues in the stupidity of the left right division we have suffered for far too long, this division only seems to serve as a tool to split the governing bodies of our countries into opposing political factions, No company can serve its shareholders with a split governing body.

[@jazzymom1211]

Guy Standing has it so much right, we need to fix the mental health of our people. UBI would significantly change the direction that our country has been taking. I know from my current situation who struggles pay check to pay check and has experience with the current welfare program. The current welfare program that should help people only burden them more. The company I work for offers medical insurance, but it is a cost I cannot afford to pay. If I chose healthcare, we don't eat, buy clothes, or have anything for my children. Therefore, I do without healthcare, and my children receive medicaid. What are the other options? Getting a second job. Yes, I could do this. My children would loose their healthcare because I would not be able to work enough extra offers to cover buying into my current jobs health insurance. My children would not have a parent present to care for them and listen to them, to spend time with them, all of which is very important to the mental state of a child. I think that a lot of the problems with today's young children is that they are all not getting this attention from their parents. Recently, a storm caused my good vehicle's windshield to be broken. Because I can only afford liability insurance, it does not cover such acts of nature. I am left with a vehicle unable to be driven because I do not have the money to fix it. Thankfully, I did not get rid of my old rusty '91 Buick that still does run and can get me back and forth to work. Where I live there is no public transportation. Anyway, trying to get ahead at my age of 53 with age discrimination in jobs is nearly impossible. I was doing better 20 years ago. I made more money then, I paid for my health insurance, and I owned my own home. So what changed? A lot, but yet not much. I am still the same person, yet older. But the same opportunities I had then are unavailable to me now. A UBI would help so much. My own anxiety and stress I feel now would be significantly reduced. I could fix my windshield, pay for healthcare for my kids and myself. I could buy more nutritious food for us to eat. I might even be able to go back to college and finish my degree. Making the UBI conditional of having to work at any job you can get or working as a government employee just over burdens people from doing other things like going back to school to learn new skills to get a better job they would enjoy. Conditional make it just another welfare program that people would hate. I could continue on and on, but people really need to think about this. Why would it be no good? As a human being, why would it be wrong? Because except for the very rich, this could help everyone. If you had more and didn't really need it, could you not then donate it to a cause that is important to you? Ok, I am stopping now. Andrew Yang is getting my support, and not just for the UBI but because his insight and caring about our children's and country's future is what is needed.

[@ericencina209]

very excellent, GUY STANDING. GRACIAS! The man I know is not going to compromise the necessity of the UBI.

[@PinkSummer1017]

PLeeeease Andrew Yang for President 2020!!!!

[@minationissapientiae9411]

get out and actually vote this time people!!!!

[@gbat2479]

Its like getting a gift card or a gift instead of cash. This is why a gift is a waste of money in economic terms because only the person themselves knows what is most important to to them and what will give them the most happiness. Many gifts get regifted or returned or thrown to the side. Why not just give cash?

[@efortune357]

23:30 “The psychologists have taught that the people who have more insecurity their mental bandwidth shrinks, their IQ shrinks, and their ability to take strategic long-term decisions shrinks. And their sense of citizenship and altruism shrink. And if you give people basic security the opposite happens. You should study the pilots that have been done in industrialized countries.” ~Prof Guy Standing

[@cheesesandwich1479]

Andrew Yang for President!

[@dystoniaify]

The only problem with UBI is that technocrats can take it from you if you don't stay in line with what they want you to believe.

[@AtheistEve]

No to mid-roll ads.

[@briandbeaudin9166]

What was he saying? He said, "Social Security was an unconditional cash transfer." Social Security is not an unconditional cash transfer. You have to have worked a certain amount in order to receive Social Security. And the idea that UBI is going to give rise to extremist groups is completely ridiculous! How does he imagine that would come about? They're going to be pissed off somehow that they received $1,000 a month? Or they're going to try to revolt against a government that's giving them money? I don't get it!

[@shaunmc013]

Why is this better than investing in more Industry wide Apprenticeships (like the UK & Germany)? If most Americans are financially illiterate, doesn't understand anything about budgeting, investing, the Markets, Economics and Personal Finance. How will a Basic Income solve anything? Once again we're proposing throwing money at the problem. I thought we learned from the Stimulus....

[@shaunmc013]

@Ja L oh it happened it just had a short term affect as far as helping people financially. And again that's because we were trying to throw money at the problem. www.thebalance.com/what-was-obama-s-stimulus-package-3305625

[@victorakandu9419]

It helps you to relax and think properly and your health is enhanced. That third speaker is an oppressor! His thinking is oppressive!

[@jonnijames]

Hes a dog, his greed will never be satisfied

[@matthewbittenbender9191]

Listening to Guy Standing talk I can safely say that his vision of UBI by far makes the most sense. It’s interesting he is approaching UBI NOT as a progressive or social democrat, but as a moderate conservative. He not only uses economics but sheds light on community and individual mindsets based on studies already performed. In the IS we know there are a few Democrat candidates now getting ready for 2020 who are either pushing UBI or open to it for their campaign platform. Anyone one of them would do well to use Dr. Standing as an advisor to implement it if elected. 1) it should be unconditional. Single mothers would benefit the most. Motherhood (or stay at home fathers) are not considered work, yet child care is a viable career path. Children do better with a parent in the house at least part of the time and UBI would promote that. 2) Stigma is gone. Welfare offices and jobs are cut which saves money that can be put into UBI. This is like Social Security for all. There is $3.5 Billion between welfare and SS to seed UBI funding. 3) It should not be taxed and the upper class, large corporations and users of automation and AI should pay and increased marginal tax rate. Presidential candidate Andrew Yang, for instance, wants to institute a VAT to pay for it. This is a regressive tax affecting the lower classes adversely. It leads to inflation and reduction of the benefit. So for every $1000/mo received, perhaps 50% will be lost to inflation and taxes undermining the concept. 4) The overall psychology of people when they are not struggling changes. Crime goes down. Charity goes up. Communities come together as economic insecurity decreased. Standing mentions this and this benefit is so important. This of how you can bring conservative and liberals in the US back together and close the Civil gap that has grown and threatens to boil over into violence or at least a “cold civil war.” @AndrewYangVFA if you’re watching, get in contact with Guy Standing. If you want UBI and have it give maximum benefit to the public, he has the best position and 30 years experience studying it.

[@ib1ray]

These are good points, especially #4 about the mindset of the poor. However, i think it is also a combination of not having a productive way of spending one's time. The saying "idle hands are the devil's playground." Comes to mind. Poverty definitely promotes crime and poor choices because of the limit to resources, ie. New tires for their vehicle, etc., but poor people that work don't have time to commit crime. It's the poor that aren't working and doing something productive that are committing the most crime imho. These type of people like the excitement of committing crimes, ie. Selling drugs and that is going to be hard to change unless those people are given something productive to replace those previous criminal activities. I think the real problem is going to be the loss of so many jobs due to ai that there is going to be a transition period when people will have to figure out what to do with all this free time... i, personally, would train jujitsu and workout several times a week, and travel around the country. Eventually go back to school to learn other skills. People need a purpose though... i also really like the idea for keeping a parent at home, but those in power would never allow that because it would take away their ability to indoctrinate today's future. Thoughts?

[@matthewbittenbender9191]

ib1ray I tend to think that people who want to commit crime will do so if they poor and unemployed of employed and rich. How many time have we seen execs or other rich folk getting busted for fraud, tax evasion or some other white collar chicanery. So by the same token if people who’s have “enough” are looking to get ahead either through extra work or criminal enterprise will continue to do so. Getting $12k a year free and clear doesn’t even get us over the poverty line. So someone who is barely making it on $24k/ye as a Walmart employee now is has $36k. Do we think that they’ll suddenly see that as an opportunity to quit and settle for half their original salary? Or as an opportunity to get ahead and maybe take their kids on a vacation, use it for a semester of community college or trade school, or maybe as a start up for a Jujitsu school? And what of the middle and upper classes who get it? It someone is making $60k/yr they too could have similar aspirations as the working class. They could also invest in retirement, use it as seed money to start a business, invest, or make some luxury purchase. There are always going to be a few people that are idle and looking to skate by without contributing to society. It’s hard to do on $12k a year. And there are those that are unfairly lumped in with the dregs like house wives, the aged or the disabled. However, some economists are looking to change the definition of societal contribution from GDP to overall societal well being as some of these people’s contributions are scalable on the current model. Volunteering, philanthropy, raising productive children, and other activities not directly linked to GDP still have societal value. It is a better measure as a whole and not just a snapshot of the financial aspect.

[@sonjataylorsaeed6067]

New jobs will come into existence much like when the Industrial Revolution displaced workers in the past. In our Constitution, we have the word amend which means" change" in order for democracy to proceed it move with the times. The founding fathers such as Thomas Jefferson and Benjamin Franklin who were businessmen and inventors. They left the Constitution overt for interpretation (knowing that the document will continue to evolve through the amendments).

[@ancientkid1635]

#ANDREWYANG

[@StarStrife100]

I'm extremely skeptical of UBI. I just don't know if it would jive with human nature. There is a certain dignity to hard work and the feeling of being needed by others. No amount of money can replace this human need. Maybe UBI would work, maybe it wouldn't. But I don't think the answer is as self evident as the proponents of UBI would have us believe.

[@schloops8473]

UBI is a big change and anybody that tells you it knows it's precise effects is a joker, but big changes are coming with or without UBI and those big changes need to be dealt with. Most current jobs will be lost in the coming 20 years... if our societies don't adapt, they will burn from the inside. And UBI is not just a bandage as it's a real change in efficience usage of taxes (money goes directly to the targets (all)) but also in mindset. People can actually rely on that safety net as the current safety nets are mostly beneficial to people good at filling papers. Since you can rely on UBI, you can aim for longer term results and take risks knowing that your children will be fed, educated, etc. UBI also means people don't fall into the poverty trap.

[@StarStrife100]

@@schloops8473 I hear you. I think Charles Murray makes an interesting argument about how UBI would give people a greater sense of moral agency (i.e. you choose how to use the money). I am also a bit concerned that UBI would provide an excuse for employers to maintain whatever status quo advantages them the most. Uber would be a great example of this. You should read the book, "Winners Take All: The Elite Charade of Changing the World" www.amazon.com/dp/0451493249/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_i_KBUBCbS9C4H84

[@joshpeck9266]

Brenden Palmer I wonder who came up with dignity and Hardwork first I couldn’t have been the corporations parentheses sarcasm - - people can find meaning in other things they can exercise they can look at entertainment they can write books they can do creative things they can do paintings they can start a business or they can volunteer they could fight for causes they believe them they could learn stuff and educate others about important issues.ect

[@schloops8473]

@@StarStrife100 UBI would definitively provide an excuse for employers to maintain status quo in advantages but it would also allow workers to be more picky which would push employers in the other direction. While it is commendable to point to a book about our subject at hand, I'm afraid I'm not going to buy it and read it so maybe you want to tell me the part that interests us here? Not dismissing your answer in any way here as others might read it.

[@mayvue5044]

OMG he sounds just like Andrew

[@mosicnflowmuasyaj9748]

Don't be stupid Americans! Let's vote for the right President, Yang 2020!

[@escoofimpakt]

The problem with testing UBI is that it takes time to see change your not going to see much of a difference in a year or two also UBI should only be a supplemental income it should be just below the poverty line so people still have to work but still have a safety net if they work low wage jobs.

[@schloops8473]

I don't think so because we simply won't be producing enough jobs for people with medium/low qualifications so I see no point in punishing people. 1000 bucks a month seems good to me as you have a ton to gain by working but at the same time, there's enough money there to not end up in a destructive circle due to poverty>>not eating enough or well enough>>not exercising enough>>reduced social life>>becoming less and less employable and taking your children down with you. A good half of the current high school jobs will be gone in 10-20 years... our societies have to adapt or they will burn from inside.

[@ivercingetorix1367]

You ever notice that people who preach socialism/UBI/redistribution are often people who don't contribute much to begin with?

[@Khymeira]

Are you referring to the plutocrats?

[@grb1969]

Milton Friedman and Richard Nixon advocated for UBI specifically because they understood that is was a wealth preservation methodology for the 1%. Andrew Yang Is a sycophant to Wall Street and their neoliberal utopian ideological delusions.

[@ib1ray]

@@grb1969 would you be so kind as to expand on your opinion and explain how it's a wealth preservation tool for the 1%?

[@grb1969]

@@ib1ray Good catch! Most of my comment was simply reactive rhetoric, but just as the accumulation of wealth requires economic growth, the preservation of wealth requires maintaining a perception of legitimacy for the established political, social, and economic orders... at least until such time when we can envision a viable/alternative institutional system of control. The current belief of the economic elite is that " there is no alternative" and this becomes socially unstable as our existing systems fail to maintain a distribution of income and wealth that is considered fair or equitable for the general population. UBI is an attempt to ameliorate the symptoms of economic dislocation, political illegitimacy, and institutional ethical distortions of the marketplace as we transition from a growth economy to an austerity economy. The problem is that by treating the symptoms of systemic failure rather than the cause, we buy a little time to figure things out, but ultimately compound problem and accelerate civilization collapse. {By now, you have noticed that I haven't addressed "wealth preservation methodologies". And, I've also implied that there are mysterious causalities that may be necessary to understand before any substantive change can be systemically efficacious. Although the constituent parts of our political-economy are relatively overly simplistic, their interactions are not... so I'm hesitant to go further but I will write up an unbiased analysis of UBI and send you a link (in a few months).} As an offering of hope, I will say that adjustments of income and wealth distributions are necessary and that symptomatic relief is an ethical responsibility of a humane society; to this extent, I would support such a program (even in the regressive form that Yang proposes). I just think that there are more progressive ways that it could be funded and implemented so as to distribute legitimate social and political power along with the illegitimate economic bribe that is UBI.

[@kenfischerjr5219]

Who did the audio for this, Helen Keller?

[@eugeniebreida]

Lol

[@phillysupra]

For all the people who oppose this (at least) idea with your conspiracy theories, I'll be the first to raise my hand and take your portion you are willing to forfeit with this... Be real here, the benefits with this idea outweigh the negatives even if you don't need the extra money... I don't need it at all but I'll tell you what, I'll surely spend it (but more likely save it)

[@Mitzi73]

phillysupra Who pays this income to people?

[@phillysupra]

@@Mitzi73 I highly recommend you research Andrew yang and his run for 2020 president. Also research the Richard Nixon policy that almost passed. These ideas are nothing new and there are factual records of this policy working in modern day

[@Mitzi73]

phillysupra Can you even answer my question? Who pays for UBI?

[@phillysupra]

@@Mitzi73 stop being lazy my man... We are both in the same video. Maybe watch it, do some research then do some more research. No need to ask an obvious blanket question we both know the answer to with an I'll effort attempt at trying to make a point. If you believe jobs are not being displaced then ask ford or gm then ask yourself if those same displaced individuals don't need help and if that help came in the form of ubi would they not still spend it and pay bills. Ask the EU about vat as well

[@Mitzi73]

phillysupra No I genuinely don’t know the answer and apparently neither do you. If you cannot answer a simple question as to who or what will pay UBI then do not respond. No shame in not knowing.

[@gcingia]

Extraordinary discussion. All points are valid. We will get there. Milton Friedman already talked about a "Negative Income Tax" decades ago. Sadly, that negative income tax is conditioned by having a job where tax is paid (or given) based on your income. The Social Democratic model is based on economic actors paying the Social Security of the Nation. If, as we see, corporate tax is being minimised as we speak, and salaries are at historical lows, the available amount of money will also come to very low amounts. That situation is already leading to huge inequalities and the rise of rightist populism...

[@MindandQiR1]

Andrew Yang 2020

[@ScottAcy]

UBI is an awesome idea but we will need to figure out what happens to our military when UBI is implemented. Many people join the military for money and benefits. If you are already getting money and benefits you likely wouldn't join.

[@spiritualopportunism4585]

It's only $1000 a month. That's about $4.50 an hour, lol.

[@Brian-dg3gh]

Now that covid happened and we essentially saw UBI in practice we can stop wondering if it will work since we know the result is massive inflation and increased drug overdoses.

[@keepcreationprocess]

andrew yang and high taxes for people with high income

[@cruven9993]

Contrary to what was Stated here Welfare Programs in the U.S. Are NEVER Link to getting a Job Most Welfare Programs in the U.S. are Link to Avoiding a Job because You WILL Lose Benefits if You take a Job to make Ends Meet. On the other Hand U.B.I. Is Strongly Link to Getting a Job to make Ends Meet because You Do Not Lose U.B.I. or Freedom Dividend No Matter Your Income from a Job, Business or Any other Source.

[@whytho9891]

Who is going to fund it?

[@ras-negusbloomfield8145]

Notice no one is gonna answer that stupid question. We the people already understand how it will get funded. So to answer your question....I will not!!!! Do some more research and read Andrew Yangs book.

[@whytho9891]

You wont answer because you cant

[@xemy1010]

@@whytho9891 _Who is going to fund it?"_ About half of the UBI is funded upfront by a 10% VAT in Yang's proposal. Everyone pays into it as consumers, but it is weighted towards the wealthy: 10% of the biggest spenders account for over 50% of all consumer spending. In other words, those paying more in VAT are those who spend more, and those who spend more tend to be richer. A person would have to spend over $120,000 a year to pay more in VAT (assuming a vanilla 10% tax rate) than they receive in UBI. That's a decently high threshold, as I'm sure you'd agree. The rest of the costs are covered by the consolidation of current welfare programs (as people move over to UBI over time), a reduction in the military spending by moving to a non-interventionist stance, and the new revenue from the increased economic growth and activity that a UBI would result in.

[@whytho9891]

@@xemy1010 thanks for explaining it. I think it should first be tested on a smaller scale before used rationally

[@johnjohnston265]

@@whytho9891 its been small scale tested for the last 35 years. Might be time to shit or get off the pot man.

[@lordofevil3731]

The man who offers everything can take everything away

[@SHPNGGUY736]

Guy you won this whole debate hands down!

[@davidfernandez7173]

The Finland study is so unsettling due to the fact it WILL carry stigma into their economy. There’s no way in hell “universal” should be used as a case study when you’re only paying the unemployed , plus it’s not even 100% a $1,000, it is only 56% of that distribution. Also, I’m pretty sure the unemployed aren’t gonna make a baffling statement with $7,000 a year according to my calculations a huge difference in the economy will only benefit the poor if their needs at poverty line are met because now the building process begins, until then Finland will continue its spiral downwards with its unemployed.

[@zhinan888]

Yang2020!

[@bogartchichi]

So nice when they support the argument , I tend to hate people who oppose the UBI. Gives many people hope , I doubt that Ronald Frump would support this idea so we must vote Andrew Yang 2020!

[@TheBandit7613]

You want even more of my money, so surprise there...

[@bogartchichi]

It’s our money your just making too much off the poor who can’t make ends meet.

[@oneman5753]

Conditional on overing the law is dangerous. What crime get it revoked? For how long? Who has the say so to restore it? No. unless you're a murderer, nevermind what that person does.

[@hkshane]

Yangs ideas make sense to me. I have concerns like inflation in prices for durable and nondurable goods. Would healthcare costs be more expensive along with insurance for example? The companies know people have $12,000 more a year. One thing I witnessed living in Hong Kong was the $6,000(HK dollars) handout from the government one year and most of my coworkers bought iPhones. So Apple made out well in product sales. Truth is some people will use the money well. Others may be frivolous. I know it would help me currently and I could improve my economic situation where in a few years I would be able to say 'no thank you' to the UBI from then on. Or maybe I would keep it and help others out.

[@subzoronltd7779]

Shane Early why would prices rise though? Rich people also buy consumer goods. The money supply isn't increasing, its redistribution.

[@hkshane]

@@subzoronltd7779 my thinking is businesses and landlords know people will have access to more money. Example. College books stores know students borrow money to buy books. The prices are super high but they know students need them and have access to loan money so will pay the higher prices. Will insurance companies think, well they have more money so lets continue to charge high prices in the US market? My overall concern is price gouging in necessities. Landlords know you have $1,000 more a month so your rent goes from $1,000/month to $1,100/month just because.

[@subzoronltd7779]

Shane Early well textbooks are a unique case because in a lot of countries, there is no competition. You are forced to buy one particular textbook, and only one publisher is allowed to publish it. Therefore it is a monopoly, which inevitably means that there is no pressure on them to lower prices. This is not the case with rent for example, because there is more competition. If someone doesn't like the price of their apartment, they have the option to move somewhere else, so therefore the incentive is there for landlords to make the product more affordable.

[@Larimerst]

Prices for goods and services are determined by supply and demand; no amount of scheming about potential customers' ability or inability to pay will change that. An increase in relative wealth could increase the demand for certain goods and services (and increase prices in the short term) until supply is likewise increased by the market to meet demand and achieve price equilibrium. This is how economies grow.

[@joshuab464]

Capitalism as an economic system has led to unparalleled innovation and improvement in the human condition. Many consider it to have “won” the war of ideas against socialism, but that simplistic view ignores that there is no such thing as a pure Capitalist system. And our current version of institutional capitalism and corporatism is a relatively recent development. Our current emphasis on corporate profits isn’t working for the vast majority of Americans. This will only be made worse by the development of automation technology and AI. We need to move to a new form of capitalism - Human Capitalism - that’s geared towards maximizing human well-being and fulfillment. The central tenets of Human Capitalism are: Humans are more important than money The unit of a Human Capitalism economy is each person, not each dollar Markets exist to serve our common goals and values The focus of our economy should be to maximize human welfare. Sometimes this aligns with a purely capitalist approach, where different entities compete for the best ideas. But there are plenty of times when a capitalist system leads to suboptimal outcomes. Think of an airline refusing to honor your ticket because they can get more money from a customer who purchases last-minute, or a pharmaceutical company charging extortionate rates for a life-saving drug because the customers are desperate

[@vtcarols3148]

If everybody decides to go onto the Universal basic Income, who is supposed to pay for it?

[@colto2312]

The printer that prints the money; same place we get it from today.

[@salmoneso392]

Our money does not just come from the printer since if they came from the printer it would cause insane amounts of inflation just look at what happened to Venezuela and zimbabwe. UBI will not work.

[@colto2312]

@@salmoneso392 research fiat currency lol

[@salmoneso392]

Well it would still not work

[@colto2312]

@@salmoneso392 Because you say so?

[@chubbyninja842]

One quick correction right there at the start. It, by definition, CAN NOT be a right. It would have to be an entitlement. A right is something that you still have in the absence of government (You have the right to speak (1st), the right to self-defense (2nd), the right to determine who can and can't come onto your property (3rd), etc.). You don't have the right to free money. The government may entitle you to free money, but if that government goes away, who's just going to decide to pay you because you have a "right" to that money? Nobody. A government can't grant or create rights. They only have to power to defend the ones you are born with. Everything else is an entitlement. As an anarchist, to me the only good government program is no government program. However, I'm also a realist and a pragmatist. I know that there's no way our statist society is just going to agree to stop robbing the people for taxes so they can spend it on things to make themselves look good. That said, I favor a UBI system over our current welfare model. Why? Because it requires much less government to implement, and it would ultimately cost less. It's not as good as no welfare state, but it's MUCH better than our current welfare state. It's a step in the right direction, and I'll always go for a good step in the right direction.

[@alexanderxie3909]

"Why would you oppose Universal Basic Income?" I don't know, you have to ask the 1%.