Weird Rules Interactions in Commander | EDHRECast 291

Some cards work in unintuitive ways. Heck, some even lie to you! Let's discuss some weird rules in EDH.
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[@Vangeltheunderdog]

I have one to add. Don't ever play your Urza's Saga if someone has a Blood Moon effect in play; what happens is Urza's Saga becomes a Mountain, but retains its Saga type, which means it is forcefully sacrificed due to it being at its new maximum lore count of 0.

[@lukevorwald7727]

We had something similar pop up the other night when I was playing my Arixmethes deck that also runs Dark Depths and one of my friends already had a Blood Moon on the field before I got DD and Arixmethes on the field. It was kind of fun pausing the game to figure out what happens in those cases.

[@GrizzneyGames]

Layers could be an entire episode 😂

[@Vangeltheunderdog]

@@GrizzneyGames Ogres are like onions, indeed.

[@KomradeKrisis1701]

Would that also mean that if someone played a blood moon/magus of the moon when you already have an urza's saga in play, it'll sacrifice itself?

[@lucaslopera8983]

@@KomradeKrisis1701yes - it goes to the GY immediately. there’s an episode of shuffle up and play where the professor plays Tide Shaper (at least that’s what i believe it is) with the kicker cost targeting Andrea Mengucci’s Urza’s Saga, and the Urza’s Saga immediately “dies” as it is both a Basic Land and a Saga with 0 counters

[@zoovisto9377]

Thank you Joey for putting my mind at ease with the damage stacking. That rule has bugged me forever but it finally makes sense with multiple players

[@crss29]

Me too

[@clausfussel2932]

But it is not the end of the confusion. I have a Mogis, god of slaughter deck, and if I have a Mogis in play and a Havoc Festival... I get to choose the order, because, they are upkeep triggers.

[@benjaminirving2593]

@@clausfussel2932The main difference is that Havoc Festival and Mogis are both triggered abilities, whereas effects like Torbran or Fiery Emancipation are both replacement effects. The former go on the stack and their order is chosen by their controller, while the latter don’t use the stack and are ordered by the affected player

[@sumdood6972]

another interesting interaction in general is that you can "respond" to a split second spell with a morph potentially causing you to counter a split second spell. as morphing is not an activated ability but a state-based interaction. so if someone tries to krosan grip one of your artifacts you can morph a stratus dancer and counter it.

[@WMDistraction]

This came up in a friendly draft awhile ago. It wasn’t split second - can’t quite remember what it was, but effectively priority wasn’t in my favor - and I morphed a guy to bounce all of his stuff. I had to explain what happened and he was still confused. Thankfully everyone knows me in the group as “the rules guy” so he trusted me 😂

[@dennisbradford7216]

You still need to have priority to turn a morph creature face-up. @@WMDistraction

[@dennisbradford7216]

Turning a morph creature face up is a special action, not a "state-based interaction" (there is no such thing by that name). State-based actions are a thing, but they're actions that the game does automatically, like destroying a creature that's taken lethal damage; not game actions taken by players.

[@Playingwithproxies]

@@dennisbradford7216 it’s a special action that a player can take anytime that they have priority. State biased actions are dying due to having 0 life or a creature dying due to taking damage. State based actions are checked every time a player would gain priority and cannot be responded to.

[@Red_Mag3]

Don't forget other triggered counters like Jin-Gitaxias, Progress Tyrant or Counterbalance

[@PSroka]

I love that the writers of this sitcom keep gradually adding dad jokes to Joey's lines because the character development has been amazing, great stuff

[@AxillaryPower2]

More on Angel's grace: that last line only says DAMAGE can't reduce your life to less than 1. Other life loss effects are uninhibited, in which case you'd go down to 0 or fewer life, but you'll still be alive until the current turn ends because of the first line. This is how I died for the first and only time to a Sign in Blood.

[@ekuude]

Commander bucket list: ✅

[@condemned70]

Interaction I wish you had mentioned about Goad and Propaganda especially, is if an opponent A goads you and opponent B has Propaganda effect, you're not forced to attack them and pay for it, even if you had enough open mana.

[@Playingwithproxies]

Wouldn’t they be forced to attack player C in that case 😅

[@tortle1055]

They get to choose a player other than you to attack, then they get to choose whether or not to pay for propaganda, then if they choose not to pay, the creature fails to attack and so is not tapped or anything

[@Red_Mag3]

​​@@tortle1055pretty sure the creature has to attack as part of goad, the second part is that it has to attack a player other than the one that goaded it "if able". So if the player doesn't pay for propaganda and can't attack that opponent, their creature still has to attack and has no other targets but the player who goaded it, the creature doesn't get to not attack.

[@dementievatz]

For the target and “choose” interactions, it’s useful to be precise about how spells and abilities go on the stack and resolve. When you cast a spell or when an ability goes on the stack, there are normally three things you have to decide up front. 1. How you are paying any costs to cast. 2. Modal choices (like charms/commands/confluences) 3. Target choices. The ability goes on the stack, and then people can respond to it. Anything else will happen during the resolution, at which point no one can respond anymore. Examples of things you can’t respond to are “choose” (Council’s Judgment, Tragic Arrogance, etc.), “as cardname enters” (Clone, Meddling Mage), and anything else that doesn’t create a new item on the stack.

[@KyleHead]

I am thankful this holiday season that Joey got a segue.

[@Dev.L]

One interaction I always like to mention in case, is that auras only target when their on the stack (aka casting). So if it entered from anywhere else (ie. Exile from Brago, the Eternal King), "enchant 'object' " attaches it to something and you choose where it goes. Which means it gets around shroud and hexproof since you're choosing and not targeting. Also, YES, Pit of Offerings. I also reached my limit for my order or I would've bought more too.

[@danaroach29]

I wonder how many folks learned that aura thing from a game against a Bruna Light of Alabaster deck?

[@Dev.L]

@@danaroach29 It might not have been a pleasant experience, but if it's Bruna, I'm sure it was enLightening.

[@kandjar]

38:36 Imho, the most common mistake players make with the choosing effect is with clone spells; most clone spells *do not* target (there are few exceptions) and yet the majority of players says: "I'm going to cast this clone and copy this creature" -- This actually leaves you the possibility to respond because the casting player did NOT wait to see if that spell was going to resolve or if any player had some interaction while the spell is on the stack. The proper way to play clone spell is casting the spell and, as it resolves, chose the creature to copy.

[@Zumteifl]

Yeah or like.. just asking in general, there is no rule that stop's you from asking what they might choose. Sure they don't have to give you any information, but most people do it anyway. But yeah i can see newer player's defintely overlooking that part.

[@Calvimh10]

Woah, I didnt know the gaod interation! Ive been playing my Kardur deck wrong!

[@satansamael666]

The damage stacking things is similar to how cost modifiers work. Colloquially known as “apply Trinisphere last” it’s easier to just treat it as if you’re blocking the effects and you decide how the effects work like how combat damage works on blockers.

[@dominikbeckmann1042]

When Joey said „cause and effect“ I expected him to start a monologue like the Merovingian.

[@scottcampbell9515]

I also like telling dad jokes. He finds them funny.

[@JABarnes18]

These are the kinds of episodes I love, that as a viewer tickles that part of your brain that might help you solve the puzzlenot in your deckbuilding.

[@alexcurtis6180]

My favorite one that throws people off all the time happens with my Raffine, Scheming Seer deck. I have Adeline in there and I layer the triggers so that Adeline creates the tokens before the Raffine connive trigger goes off. Most people think that Raffine checks the amount of creatures you had when you attacked but she doesn't until the trigger resolves so Adeline will make me connive for three more creatures that I swung out with. In pods that haven't seen the interaction before, I usually have to explain what's happening

[@mn6334]

I've messed with a similar idea in my Kamiz deck. Kamiz needs a target for the first half of the ability but the second half doesn't target so you can put things like Whispersilk Cloak(Shroud) or Swords of X&Y(Protection) on a creature and still give it double strike with Kamiz, it just needs to have power less than the first creature.

[@hanschristopherson8056]

My mind was actually blown with setting your life total actually counting as life gain or life loss

[@robertauclair5536]

The rule and layers of Opalescence with Humility are legendary.

[@nicholashentges1121]

It's sad that Library of Leng isn't played much. I run it in a small handful of decks and love having that turn one play. It's a slightly better Spellbook with a niche feel.

[@irreleverent]

I have Reconnaissance in a commander cube of mine and I've literally shapied out the reminder text because I don't want players misunderstanding the card.

[@dylanvolckaert404]

Whoah, the Doubling Season one really caught me off guard; I'm pretty sure people in my pod consistently play it wrong.

[@Dragon_Fyre]

Doubling Season is probably one of the most frequently misunderstood interactions. People often do not understood “effect” very well.

[@mmmmmq]

We also can’t talk about doubling season without mentioning sagas! When a saga ETB with doubling season out, it would get two counters (so first two chapters both trigger), but next turn you only add one, not two lore counters.

[@janmelantu7490]

@@mmmmmqUnless, of course, your Saga has Read Ahead. Skipped Chapters of Read Ahead Sagas don’t trigger.

[@KomradeKrisis1701]

​@@janmelantu7490oh, interesting! So even if you don't actually pay the cost for the Read Ahead ability, it'll still skip the first chapter if it gets additional counters as it ETBs?

[@janmelantu7490]

@@KomradeKrisis1701 Yes basically. When your Read Ahead saga resolves, you pick which chapter to “start on” aka how many Lore Counters you put on it. If you say 1, doubling season says “cool, actually it’ll be 2” and you only get chapter 2 because you (actually Doubling Season) “skipped” chapter 1. If you picked “Chapter 2”, doubling season puts 4 lore counters on it initially, and then it does nothing and is immediately sacrificed (unless your read ahead saga has 4 chapters). Vorinclex is even worse, because he also doubles each time you put counters on sagas.

[@Polemion]

the nethroi scourge interaction killed me

[@Dragon_Fyre]

It’s funny but given the nature of a Nethroi deck where everything is low power, I cannot see it being too relevant (I’m sure someone would do it “…just because”). There are just easier ways to break Nethroi.

[@unseeliedream42]

totally did me too

[@TheDude10]

I love my Nethroi deck so much. It’s my baby

[@ekuude]

A sub interaction of this is that if you exile the scourge in response to the nethroi trigger, the total power will no longer be 10 or less so ability will fizzle and no creatures will enter!

[@ty_sylicus]

And then brought you back from the graveyard to the battlefield!

[@MenaceLendil]

Some things about the choose vs target. You really need to look for the word "target" since sometimes cards will say "choose target creature" and in those cases you can respond to the targets. A different thing that came up yesterday in a game is Ancient Brass Dragon. With it's trigger you target creatures after the dice roll, which means it's after the abillity already started resolving. However i checked today and because of how things (something something Reflexive triggers) work you can actually respond to this after the targets are chosen. I'd say it's kinda unintiutive because you're responding while the abillity is already resolving, which you normally wouldn't be able to do.

[@jasperfuhs4988]

I can explain why this works. It's actually 2 triggers, not one. Notice how ancient brass dragon's ability says "Whenever ABD attacks, roll a d20...When you do...". It's not actually one trigger that's happening here. It's two triggers. The first trigger occurs when it attacks, and then the "reflexive triggered" ability that targets is put on the stack after the die roll is completed. When you put the second triggered ability on the stack, you select targets for it

[@mrorris88]

Btw, there's a fun interaction if you legend rule Reyhan, Last of the Abzan. Because it moves counters when it or another creature dies, they will all do so and you will get the moving counters trugger twice. If you legend rule multiple Reyhans at the same time, you can get a nuts amount of counters out of nowhere

[@TheGreaterThanTwo]

I built a whole deck about that "end of combat/still attacking creatures" tidbit, using garna the bloodflame. It was meant to be a straightforward aggro deck with some card draw and reach in the command zone, but it ended up being the most fun arostocrats deck I've ever piloted

[@theaamanable]

Do you have the list id love to take a look

[@KomradeKrisis1701]

Did you mean Garna, Bloodfist of Keld? Or is there an interaction with Garna, the Bloodflame I'm missing?

[@WiLDRAGE777]

Crawlspace is similar to Propaganda in that it only limits the number of creatures attacking the player; their planeswalkers are still fair game. Also, any creature that enters the battlefield attacking (such as Myriad token copies) gets around cannot attack restrictions are they were created after the declare attackers step.

[@sventhemouse95]

To add to the choose vs target part; when using an effect to put an aura into play or the battlefield you can select hexproof/shrouded creatures/players. An aura only targets when it is cast, so an effect like Light-Paws attaching an aura from your deck to it, goes around an existing shroud aspect on it.

[@zacburgess5318]

I don’t know if it’s telling of anything but my first two commander decks I ever built are relevant to this episode. Torbran, with a few red source or damage doublers in it and a Vito, thorn of the dusk rose deck with soul conduit in it that I’ve used to trade life totals with opponent A, to then eliminate opponent B by losing so much life and then swing out and eliminate opponent A

[@maxleveladventures]

This is a great episode because a VERY common answer when someone asks a question about how a card/interaction works is, "just read the card and do exactly what it says."

[@EvertfromNederland]

I can't find the Rachel Weeks video you mentioned about the red damage ruling. Do you perhaps have a link or a title I can look up? EDit: 2 days later, I still don't get it and I wish I could find the video. I have scrolled through countless commandzone video's yet still can't find it. Can someone please provide a link or clarify some more because this rule is quite a doozy

[@crillsnort417]

It's titled "You're reading cards WRONG". In the section called "if/replacement effect" about twenty four minutes & thirty seconds into the video.

[@izaiahsundquist6877]

I'd like to add one which is that if a player uses Teferi's Protection and I swing at them with a Questing Beast, the damage from Questing Beast can't be prevented.

[@chrs-wltrs]

Nethroi's Paradox: Nethroi has a very expensive and desirably Mutate ability. One would think that you should play a bunch of Mutate cards to repeatedly trigger Nethroi's Mutate ability for cheap. *BUT* when a card with Mutate is reanimated, it is returned to the battlefield as a separate creature. You don't get to Mutate with it again, meaning you have a bunch of creatures spread out, which is _exactly_ the opposite of what Mutate wants. Nethroi is a Mutate commander where you don't want to play other Mutate effects.

[@bamit11]

In my OG Ephara deck, one thing that came up was how she interacts with Torpor Orb. My opponent figured it would stop the triggers, but because the creature didn't immediately trigger it on ETB, I still got to draw cards.

[@Nr4747]

Very interesting episode, thank you. I have another good one (that I also want to CHALLENGE THE STATS on): 20% of Pantlaza deck are currently running Curator of Sun's Creation, a card that doubles up a Discover-trigger once per turn. Unfortunately, this does not work with Pantlaza, because of Pantlaza's unique wording: Most limits on cards like these are worded "This ability triggers only once each turn", but Pantlaza explicitly forbids you from doing this Discovering more than once a turn ! That means that doubling up the Discover-trigger that Pantlaza provides does nothing.

[@kamakazi339]

That ozolith modular interaction is HUGE for my sydri modular deck

[@ceciliadowning8141]

I have a challenge the stats. It's running the land "spawning pool" in a Nethroi, Apex of Death deck. Nethroi has 5290 decks on edhrec, and a whopping 10 of them run spawning pool. It's a land that comes into play tapped, taps for a black mana, and also has an activated ability for 1 and a black "spawning pool becomes a 1/1 black skeleton creature with black: regenerate this creature into end of turn. It's still a land". I've run nethroi for years now, and i can't count how many times i had no creatures in play to mutate nethroi onto, and animating spawning pool for the body, that has a form of protection, has won me the game. Such a good utility land

[@ceciliadowning8141]

Also the fact that the skeleton can protect itself by just tapping for the black to regenerate. I know regenerate isn't amazing, but it still does deal with alot of spot removal used these days

[@2headedyeti]

I may have died to that exact Everybody Lives interaction recently XD

[@deeterful]

I knew most of these however, the ones I didn’t know, I really didn’t know.

[@ACertainGuy0]

Welp. Thanks for the heads up with horn of greed! I was about to buy an Archelos, Lagoon Mystic deck with that in it with the sole intention of bringing lands back from the GY to keep drawing value! Love you guys!

[@toastmaster6300]

Wanted to build a deck revolving around Notion Thief and Shared Fate. In theory, I could use cards like Forced Fruition to steal loads of cards from my opponents' decks each turn, milling them out while giving me loads of stuff to work with. Sadly, that theory ended as soon as I found out that the opponent chooses which replacement effect applies to them...

[@Dragon_Fyre]

When they mentioned Rachel Weeks in a video about weird interactions and cards not working intuitively, I thought it was about flashback and adventure spells.

[@througtonsheirs_doctorwhol5914]

@31:00 so you are telling me you taught me that THE OZOLiTH is an ALL STAR S-Rank caard for my deck : commander Kate Stewart = whenever a time counter is put on a permanent, create a White Soldier 1/1. And using the game-ender War Doctor : Whenever a time counter... effect ! On my pick list at the local store, hope they got it at the local one, or they could transfer it from another town

[@IneptCardCollector]

7:54 fun fact about his showcase card from IKO: it's the creature called Jotunn from Norse mythology.

[@mike44njdevils1]

Literally had this come up the other day. I'm playing Daretti artifacts. I had, amongst other things, Goblin Welder, Mirage Mirror, and Spine of Ish Sah. I welded away the spine for something, then with the spine's "return to your hand" trigger on the stack, I turned mirror into another goblin welder, and welded the spine back in. We were curious if the "return to hand" trigger still happens with the spine in the field. I was of the impression it still did.

[@dancingmathusalem5451]

When an object changes zones, it becomes a completely different object with no memory of the old one The return trigger would try to find the spine and not find it, fizzling

[@VisibleNinja5674]

Lol, I've explained the Torbran interaction due to brewing a Torbran deck, and they definitely wanted to look it up on their own

[@deadNdivine12]

I got robbed of a game, because the player who cast everybody lives says they wont die to commander damage on their next turn. Just because the card says that their life total can't change meaning damage is prevented.. darn liar.

[@Dragon_Fyre]

That would be like having a Platinum Angel in play and being reduced to 0 life, then arguing that if they destroy the Platinum Angel that you do not lose because you were already at 0 life. It just makes no sense. What was their argument ? Edit: There have to be dozens of Reddits, KZbin videos etc. explaining why Teferi’s Protection doesn’t protect against everything including when damage cannot be prevented.

[@EpicGamerz01]

A question about ninjutsu: if you have a creature with first strike that is unblocked, can you do first strike damage, ninjutsu a creature into play before normal damage and have it do damage as well?

[@jasperfuhs4988]

Yes! Ninjutsu has so many crazy interactions that I've learned from playing UR faeries in Pauper, to name another weird one: You can activate a single creature's ninjutsu ability multiple times in response to itself, so if you have a spellstutter sprite and a faerie seer on board, and a ninja with a 1 mana ninjutsu ability in hand, you can reveal it twice, and pay 2 mana to bounce both creatures to hand and put the ninja in play.

[@collinbeal]

Yes, with one exception: If the creature you Ninjutsu in also has First Strike, it is incapable of striking during the standard damage step. We're stacking niche scenarios rn though lol.

[@EpicGamerz01]

Thank you both for answering!

[@highlander7462]

I would highly recommend making a ninjutsu deck on arena since it pauses every time you can take an action and highlights what can use the ability. It probably won't be very competitive, but makes it a lot easier to learn the timing.

[@Oznej]

One that really bugs me is the reminder text on sagas: "...after your draw step, add a lore counter" is a complete lie! The actual rules text says "as a player’s precombat main phase begins...". This completely turned a game upside down for me recently, where I had a saga in play and my opponent had a Fatespinner. I expected that if I chose to skip my main phases, I would get to use my saga, just at the beginning of combat; but that if I chose to skip my draw step, I would not get to use my saga. Turned out it was the other way around!

[@crancpiti]

The replacement effects make the most sense for me if you imagine effects like rest in peace plus another replacement effect that affects cards dying. The player with the card gets to decide where and how it goes.

[@ThisIsACommanderChannel]

Oh snap! As someone with a video series called Tough Rules & Cool Interactions, I can tell this will be a good episode.

[@digitalworldsvr7881]

Oh wow, I just finished your latest episode and then watched this EDHREC one and saw your comment. Trippy!

[@Krunschy]

I'd advise to be somewhat careful with that Nethroi/Scourge of the Skyclave interaction though, because it allows people to fizzle the ability by damaging players to increase the Scourge's power.

[@DeWillpower]

hi, i'm happy to see 13th and yaz! unfortunately it's safe to think 75% of the decks in the database are just copies of the precon or slight upgrades i'm still very new to make a deck so currently my "deck" of them is a pile of 400 cards that somehow needs to go to 100 but about the other card, i saw very similar effects of stealing from the top of the deck of my opponent and i don't really want to have 2 or 5 "multiplayer ravagan effects" on my board...even if this card is better for the +1/+1 synergy

[@christophercombs7561]

The reconnaissance and maze of ith tricks are all great and i have been using them to get attack triggers amd saving kaalia and other weak attack trigger creatures from strong blockers

[@Atmatan_Kabbaher]

40:30 Pretty simple solution to handling cards with post interaction confusion: "Does my spell resolve?" Ask this before you start choosing and it should be enough of a delimeter to let people know now is their only chance to stop what's about to happen.

[@balloonduelist5640]

I had the goad and planeswalker rulling come up earlier today, I was playing kroxa titan of deaths hunger, I had a lilliana on board and cast kardur, (kroxa doesnt make a big board so I use goad to stop people from attacking me.) and someone tried to attack my planeswalker. so I told him he couldnt do that because I remembered from your guys podcasts you talked about how they just couldnt attack planeswalkers. they argued that several judges said that he could and therefor I am wrong. we called a judge over who looked up the official rules and told the guy he indeed couldnt attack the planeswalker. the guy got so mad that he packed all his belongings and stormed out of the shop. funniest part, the guy next to him during his turn chaos warped my lilliana.

[@Cephalopopo]

Sad story. Failed game of commander..

[@jakecarlson3709]

Weird question, would the loyalty gain on cosmo stellar pup, grist the hunger tide or Chandra acolyte of flame be doubled by doubling season, because they are not costs, but rather part of the effects?

[@stephanmathys62]

The Ozolith interaction of "put counters" is from Rule 122.8. I had the same modular / Ozolith / Resourceful Defense question juat 2 weeks ago. Nobody at th LGS could answer, so Reddit was able to find the reference. 122.8. If a triggered ability instructs a player to put one object’s counters on another object and that ability’s trigger condition or effect checks that the object with those counters left the battlefield, the player doesn’t move counters from one object to the other. Rather, the player puts the same number of each kind of counter the first object had onto the second object.

[@Debatra.]

Gaea's Touch being Oracled into an activated ability means it can be copied. That might actually earn its way back into one of my mono-green decks to experiment with. Reconnaisance's flavor text is very on-point: "War favors the informed."

[@FlairanFire]

the secret sauce of my Abzan modular counters deck has been revealed! With Ozolith, Reyhan, Resourceful Defense on the battlefield, a modular creature dying and transferring its counters to another artifact creature actually quadruples the counters, and thats before any doubling season effects. Just a single doubling season would actually octuple the counters too!

[@casmiry]

Does "goad" also ignore Battles, just like the Planeswalkers?

[@darkesch9502]

Yes

[@ANitschkeProduction]

Battles aren't players, so yes.

[@DrukenReaps]

Kardur is by far one of the funnest commanders I've played. Love my walker deck led by him.

[@edhtypecast339]

Joey, speaking of weird interactions. How about the change to the “Commander Death Rule”, and its effect on Reyhan? Do you think/hope they will errata Reyhan to make it function as it did when it was printed? Exile is the only zone where this is affected, and errata-ing it could cause some blink synergies to emerge

[@RibusPQR]

Goad: protects you, your planeswalkers and battles, and your opponent's planeswalkers and battles. Propaganda: protects you but not your planeswalkers or battles.

[@LapsisEnkeli]

I use Reconnaissance in my Myrel, Shield of Argive deck great way to abuse her attack trigger

[@kennethhartman2502]

I was playing Henzie "Toolbox" Torre which can be a heavy graveyard synergy deck. I went to wipe the board where I had some fun and nasty creatures on board and in the graveyard while my opponents didn't have the same total power. Someone cast Everyone Lives! in response to my boardwipe and I chuckled because everyone would live, just not the currently living. I then cast Living Death.

[@pokedude583]

Yugioh actually managed to make targeting vs choosing a bit clearer. Cards will tell you to target before the colon, while choosing is never brought up until after the colon, so you know whether it's during activation or resolution.

[@brendans1983]

TEYSA DOESN'T DOUBLE TRIGGER MURKWOOD BATS!!!!!

[@diggerdog9205]

Great episode

[@ginobarone9505]

Brilliant episode. Any news of when will EDHREC resume updating?

[@isaiahwelch8066]

Joey, Dana, I want to thank you for this episode! Perhaps the biggest interaction for me is the Doubling Season interaction with planeswalkers. While I had always understood the ETB effect of doubling loyalty counters, I have gotten into arguments about planeswalker abilities that add counters as a cost. My position is actually yours, in that I have said to people that because adding the counters is part of the cost and not part of an effect, Doubling Season doesn't double the added counters. I will say, also, now that I know this, any effect of a planeswalker, such as Nissa That Shakes The World which puts counters on a land or other permanent, would actually get doubled by Doubling Season, simply because the effect of putting the counters on a land is the effect of a loyalty ability, not as part of a cost. That colon, i.e., "double dot," is more important than what people think. Thanks for the clarification!

[@shayneweyker]

If you do another one of these please cover all the weird things that get turned off by effects that make ban you from paying life as a cost (like attacking through a Norn's Annex?) or ban you from sacrificing creatures as a cost.

[@vwscottvw]

What a great episode, super relevent!

[@supraspintus1124]

With the damage triggers i always thought it went in turn order after the player thats dealing the damage. I would like to see how that would play out online on something like mtg arena but for commander.

[@Bleesotron]

Something similar to swapping life totals that trips people up is doubling power/toughness. I've seen multiple times where people consider it to be a "times 2" in the "what's my P/T" layers. As a WRONG example, if you double the power of a Grizzly Bear through something like Unnatural Growth, now it has 2x2=4 power. Then you cast Giant Growth for 3 more power, so now it's (2+3)x2=10 power. THAT WAS A WRONG EXAMPLE, DON'T FOLLOW IT. Doubling power is the same as "this creatures gets +X/+0, where X is the creature's power". So the Grizzly Bear in the example would be getting +2 from Unnatural Growth, and +3 from Giant Growth, for a total of 7 power. If the player had smartly Giant Growth'd first before Unnatural Instinct, then it would be 5 power first, then +5 from doubling. Always double last if possible.

[@DrSneelex]

TIL library of leng gives you no max hand size. Have always had the white border version

[@MrMalorian]

Damn it, Matt! This is why you need to be here!!! :D

[@simoncss1]

Good man, Joey! Gotcha Challenge back

[@isaachaahr8691]

My Fynn deck has one interactions that people get befuddled by. First is a creature with death touch any amount of damage is considered lethal damage. So if the creature has trample from rancor I am only required to assign 1 damage per blocker and can assign any remaining damage to the player. This effect does not care if that 1 point of damage actually kills the creature so even if it has protection from green or is indestructible I can still trample over because I assigned lethal damage.

[@marknicklason]

To further the Ozolith thing. If you were to say...give your acrbound ravager modular a second time, say with blaster combat dj, the modular abilities do both trigger, so if you have 3 counters on the ravager, you can put 3 1/1 counters on an artifact creature you control, twice. I was wondering why people were playing the bad arcbound creatures with blaster....turns out that is why. Yes people do look at me rather unbelievingly.

[@RubrDuky1]

Everybody lives also doesn't stop the game from ending in a draw. Normally choosing is done during the resolution of an effect. However, this is not true if the card says "Choose target. . ." like Arcbond or on modal cards since you choose the modes on cast.

[@Atmatan_Kabbaher]

Everybody lives just gave me a great idea: self inflicted poison + lich's mirror. Every single time state interactions happen, you die, and every time you die,.you immediately have 20 live and cycle your cards.

[@andrewwhite2123]

My Nethroi deck on arena (read: that doesn’t exist) runs as many power zero creatures as I can find like Shanna, legacy and Ambitious Dragonborn

[@joshdawkins1237]

I could actually use a little more explanation on the Reconnaissance one. Not only does that sound like it would completely negate the intention of the card by watering it down to just psuedo-vigilance (still useful, but missing the point of the card), what I've looked at in the rules seems to say that, as long as you used the ability before the combat damage step, the creature shouldn't take any combat damage since it is explicitly removed from combat by the ability, not just untapped. The rules say that a creature removed from combat is no longer attacking, blocking, blocked, or unblocked, and that combat damage is only dealt by attacking creatures to their target or a blocking creature, and by blocking creatures to the creature they block. It's not *prevented* true, but it just never has the chance to happen as far as I can tell. Is there something I'm missing?

[@EDHRECast]

Reconnaissance can be activated before damage to save a creature *or* it can be used after damage in the end of combat step.

[@Zumteifl]

Once it start's resolving you can't counter council's judgement, that's right, but what you could do with it on the stack.. just ask the other player's what they're most likely to choose. They won't have to give you any information but most people will do it anyway.

[@arkb0t379]

My friend was so let down to figure out how Propaganda worked in his Superfriends deck (as in, that it didn't)

[@zwolf4118]

does anybody have the link to that episode with Rachel weeks

[@EDHRECast]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/qaPTd6eeeNCZhtEsi=pYlEcU5xc4XwX63t 👍

[@MutantBamHammer]

Geae's Touch is even worse than they're presenting it here. As written now, the oracle text has a Zero mana activation, that lets you put a basic forest from your hand into play (sorcery speed activation only, and once per turn). Presumably, because Wotc was too chicken-shit to leave it as an additional land to play, but with restrictions on the type of land you could play. Masters Edition pictures show it as an ability granting an additional land drop, and the text on the card (because of course they haven't reprinted it) words it as an additional land drop, but its not, it's an activated ability.

[@Julio1jpg]

27:00 I also use that End of Combat Step for my benefit, bt I don't get why that step exists. Can anybody explain it? Great video, once again!

[@katiebentz5333]

My thoughts and may be completely wrong but it would perhaps be an opportunity to respond to the results of combat damage if the results of combat damage does not cause an ability to trigger as combat damage does not use the stack as well as life change or only vanilla creatures dying as in this case with the stack empty it immediately becomes main 2 after combat damage and emptying of mana. where this becomes Specifically relevant is the ability for players to use any mana up before the phase would end. Such as turn player a attacks player b with a Myriad creature and you player c chump block with a creature but then sack your creature to phyrexian Altar and generate mana after declaring it as a blocker. Now let's say you have a two mana instant kill spell that you want to use to kill the Myriad creature, before the of End of combat phase was added you would not be able to kill that creature without also stopping it from hurting your opponent. Now combat damage becomes more relevant. And in addition a player can hold spells that can only be cast during combat phase until after the after the damage is done regardless of combat damage needing to cause a triggered ability

[@sethmassacre]

One that I've always wondered is what happens when you mutate Snapdax on top of a face down fortune thief and morph it face up. It's a human so it can't be mutated and does the Snapdax stay face up?

[@GrizonII]

27:25 The original card does at least warn you that "War favors the informed"-now it seems "the informed" are those aware of the peculiarities of what counts as attacking.

[@riptornsideways]

My absolute favorite interaction most people don’t know is the life change one. I’ve been using tainted remedy+beacon of immortality in my zur pillow fort deck to insta-kill people since the day tainted remedy came out.

[@overmused]

I know frequently we've had issues with a player in our group with things that sacrifice to get an effect, things that trigger on something dying, and things that have their own sacrifice trigger. For example, Syr Ginger, Solemn Simulacrum, and some sac outlet. Those timing rules of which goes on the stack first, counting up the stack, and then back down can be a big confusing. He loves intricate aristocrat style decks but absolutely HATES having to do the math for them. He just wants to shortcut it all to "this happens".

[@breloopharos1919]

Ugh As much as i like the style of play, im glad we're getting wayyy less planeswalkers. Theres like 2 ways to interact with one let alone multiple planewalkers.

[@okgut2033]

Sometimes also if a player looses the game things can get complicated. Like what happens to the stack? What happen to stolen creatures? What about emblems (esp chandras upkeep emblem)? What hapen in extra turns? And maybe even more.

[@azazelmorningstar5631]

So in short these are the answers to your questions: 1-Any spells or abilities controlled by the player who left the game are exiled and do not resolve 2-If the creature was put into play by its owner it returns to its owners control, if they were stolen through effects like Etali's trigger they leave with their controller. 3-To my knowledge Chandra is the only case were a player would leave an emblem behind, and that's because Chandra specifies that the other players gets an emblem, Chandra's controller never got an emblem itself 4-If a player taking an extra turn dies the turn will move through all its steps and phases normally, but no player will be the active player, if there's anything in the stack the spells and abilities will resolve, players may take actions before the extra turn of the absent player ends, if the player had any pending extra turns those never happen Hope this clarifies things a bit

[@okgut2033]

@@azazelmorningstar5631 thanks another tricky one: what happens if a player controlling another player dies in that turn?

[@rylegrimrick]

Concerning ‘everybody lives!’ what I find interesting about this card is, it can turn a game-winning scenario into a draw extremely fast… the best example I can think of would be ‘all will be one’ and ‘the red terror’ once you have demonstrated the loop play everybody lives the loop never ends because no one can die edit: nope im wrong about that instance ignore me

[@mn6334]

I don't think that makes a draw. Once Everybody Lives is played all creatures and players will have hexproof so All Will Be One will no longer have any legal targets (unless there's any Planeswalkers) and the loop stops.

[@rylegrimrick]

your right i mis read the 'everybody lives' and 'all will be one' i did not see the all creatures gain hexproof portion of the card 'everybody lives' and did not see that ' all will be one targets... my bad@@mn6334

[@1notdeadfred]

Reconnaissance is a weird one. I refuse to use it in the way mentioned here because the place I use it is my Winota, Joiner of Forces deck... the fact that I am able to get the attack triggers without risking creatures is already stupidly powerful. If I can also do damage with them, that's just a bit much. It feels a bit like the fact that Grave Titan has deathtouch. It's already super powerful without that. We can do without.

[@supraspintus1124]

How does scourge work in that way? Doesnt nethroi just make it so you can return it from the graveyard to the battlefield because it has less than 0 power? it is just a free card to put on the field that would immediately die and have no effect unless you already have your board set up for death triggers.

[@jordansams6240]

Its ok dana, i also just bought 10 copies of pit of offerings 😂

[@kwagmeijer26]

The Gaea's Touch oracle text just seems like poor errata to change the functionality that much.

[@collinbeal]

So I looked it up due to it being the same effect, but on a creature that can be recurred, and Liliana's Standard Bearer is in less than 5% of Teysa, Orzhov Scion decks. There's no reason why Body Count should have a higher amount than LSB.