The Meter Plugin That Changed My Mind - Sonible True Level & Balance

[@kelvinfunkner]

been watching the "smart" series of plugins from Sonible for awhile...totally missed these for some reason...but I'm very intrigued. I loved it when iZotope Ozone had a reference feature way back in like version 3 or 4 where you could reference multiple songs and use the match eq function to preview them...and then they changed it to only one which was a bummer....this feels more liberating having the ability to bring in several references all at once and compare them 🙂

[@WeissAdvice]

I agree. I think a few references are necessary within the genre to give any meaningful information.

[@J-DUB-F1]

I've been learning a lot from these Smart plugins. I've been using the Smart EQ to train my ears to recognize problems. I just started using Smart Balance a couple weeks ago. I don't have a well treated room so I still do a lot of car checks. I appreciate that you make the point of, "use as a point of reference". I'm working on a track right now, and True Balance is telling me the low end is around 1.5 to 2db too hot. In my room the bottom is where I want it. Checking in my car it's still where I want it. When I make the suggested corrections I'm not digging it as much. There's always a risk of taking what these things tell you as gospel. Being able to load in commercially finished tracks as reference, is very helpful. It's not the only plugin that does this, but it does it very well.

[@WeissAdvice]

This is a very good point. These things need to be taken as a REFERENCE, and not necessarily a goal post!

[@millionhertzbeats2352]

Thank you for your excellent taste and for showing the noobie that i am what to seek for and explaining why i should seek for that!!! Prior to your video i had never realized how distracting meters really were , and now that you demonstrate it i can understand why this is so hard of a task while mixing ... However this two new plugins come in handy with relevant informations that we can immediatlly take advantage of without beeing distracted !!! Thank you Matt , keep on the good job🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥

[@WeissAdvice]

I just had a coaching student yesterday and this is one of the things we talked about. LOOKING at things tells us information that we usually don't need, and it can be really hard to shake the instinctive need to depend on it. Even from lights turning on or an analyzer suddenly showing us an animation - it can make things "sound" better because we're getting visual stimulus. It can also inhibit how far we push things because we might make a 20db boost or cut that sounds amazing, but as soon as we read "20db" we instinctively want to back off.

[@millionhertzbeats2352]

@@WeissAdvice to be really honest i don t really feel the need of an analyzer,cause it s my personnality … I don t like to be led by any mean however it gets hard to trust only my own taste cause it s often to much power , to much transients, to much dynamic … So i would love to rely on my feelings/ emotions but again those are really hard to turn on , so i guess somthing still wrong with my approach to mixing It s kind of a black hole situation here!!! anyway thanks again Matt!!!

[@bayphoenix]

Definitely in the "new apartment and havent treated your room" category lol. I totally master with references for that exact reason. That balance between dynamics and loudness is what I normally spend the most time matching with my reference, i wasnt in the market for new plugins but that one seems like a worthy addition!!

[@WeissAdvice]

It's been super helpful over the last week as I've been getting the room together more and more. Now I gotta remove a ceiling fan and lighting fixture in order to put up a cloud absorber....

[@CamAirOnRECORDS]

This is all great-these reference plugins are super useful. However, I rarely see videos explaining how to actually fix the issues detected with the plugin and reference track in a practical way. If you’ve already made a video like this, or if anyone knows of one, please share the link in a reply! I’d love to see a tutorial focused on how to use these tools to improve our mix and bring it closer to the sound of the chosen reference mix, from a practical, problem-solving perspective. A hands-on guide on addressing these issues would be incredibly valuable!

[@davidasher22]

I use the Izotope tools in a similar way. Their tonal balance plugin is a very similar plugin to the Sonible spectrum snapshot thing you are using. I’ve tried the Sonible stuff like the limiter and compressor. Even though they sound good i was getting annoyed by those little warning messages that pop up saying, “Your song isn’t loud enough”or “it’s too dynamic”. While you get that info from Izotope, it feels more like suggestions and not like I’m doing it wrong. 😅lol. But I’m sure they are useful. I even think Izotope just dropped a new capture program for their tonal spectrum analysis tools. So you can just grab that’s spectrum file from any music playing on your computer and drop it into say, Ozone 10 or Neutron 4. Yeah, they seem similar enough though that using one or the other isn’t going to make a difference. Similars means to the same ends…. Thanks for the videos my friend!

[@G_handle]

Plus 1

[@zwsh89]

I see now that you mentioned that in your comment, that’s the “capture” plugin you referenced

[@davidasher22]

@@zwsh89 yeah, I couldn’t remember what they were calling it. Audiolense I believe. I spent like 40 mins last night setting up my computer to accept the “kernel program”? (Something like that). So that my Mac would let the Audiolense app listen to its internal audio and do the capture. I’m not super familiar yet with how a Mac setup screen works. I’m speaking of the internal menu you access by holding the power up button during boot up. But I had to follow some detailed instructions to get the whole thing set up. At one point it felt like I may have been breaking the computer. Lol 😂. But I powered through it and it’s safe to say… it’s working fine now! I did a bunch of captures for fun. Some of my favorite songs. I have used the reference option once recently with Ozone 10 and it worked pretty well. I used the single from the bands album that I had already mixed and mastered as a reference in Ozone 10 to see if some of the other songs (once’s I had mixed earlier that year for them) to sound closer to the single as far as it’s tonal balance and overall vibe. It actually did help. A lot. I still revisited a couple mixes but the process made it much easier to get all the songs sounding like a working album.

[@WeissAdvice]

honestly iZotope fell off my radar a little bit. I'll have to check it out.

[@zyxyuv1650]

Another indispensable meter is the OL / overload indicator on monitors you trust. I.e. the Mackie HR-824 Mk2 has a good OL. For EDM I mix bass toward 0.5 dB from OL. This is not possible to simulate with a plugin until you have a physics engine from the future. Also it requires a calibrated DAC output level for that OL to have any meaning. For Lynx Hilo it's just -13 or -12 dB monitor out. -13 dB for tracks which should be playable at -12 dB but I didn't fix the problems yet. If a track has to be played at -14 dB to prevent OL then it's got serious problems.

[@alfredgrupstra]

Loudness referencing? I wonder, depends on where you reference track is coming from, cd or Spotify? Both very different loudness because Spotify is turned down. I like to test this.

[@jeremiahmaryland]

Thanks for this video I'm impressed, by the way time try adding a clipper before your limiter to chop off those unnecessary transients so you're limiter only has to do around -2db of reduction but you still stay loud

[@WeissAdvice]

A tried and true technique! It's not clear in the video but I am using a some soft clipping with The Oven on just the instrumental bus. A touch of clipping usually does sound a little better than pushing the limiter further than it wants to go, 100%

[@fotpjusto457]

listening and watching this video was amazing! Those plugins were giving spot on advice!! The master went to another level!! Great job great song!

[@erictorres5935]

Dope Video , the level has a refresh button in the lower left corner .

[@Joey-rp5vg]

Great video Matt, lots of good info and handy tips. Thanks very much

[@WeissAdvice]

Thanks for checking out the video Joey!

[@TheGuitarNerdShow]

Man, that is one great sounding mix!

[@WeissAdvice]

Thank you!

[@kennymonsters]

Reggaetón, particularly percussion instruments, tend to be dynamic in nature. Maybe the best way to use this is to first reference your record dynamics against a track of a similar genre, and then match your target loudness to it as well. Or use a different loudness reference with the understanding that you may have to compromise loudness for dynamics. Either way, this will help you make quick decisions.

[@southernman2]

After every change you make with compressor and/or limiter you should probably reset the integrated lufs meter in order for the plugin to calculate from latest change.

[@WeissAdvice]

Right on! Thanks Southern Man!

[@gathobeevens2644]

Great video !! Be Blessed

[@alexandre7634]

Thanks for the knowledge !!!

[@WeissAdvice]

Thanks Alexandre!

[@alphaomega6062]

Will watch later but like to comment to boost channel.

[@WeissAdvice]

Thank you Alpha!

[@SixStringer09]

Nice. Thanks for vid. I noticed that you dont have to actually PLAY the reference material for it to LEARN the levels and dynamics? I have the Smart Comp2 in which you need to play a bar or 2 of the reference material. That being said, how do these plugs know what to reference? Thanks!

[@G_handle]

Great video once again! A couple of questions though.... A) You mentioned having beef with Meters, pretty much president of the "Mix with your Ears!" club. I assume you didn't feel the same way about Reference Tracks that you do about visual aids. If that's true, then was your advice to USE references, but "listen" for the differences, training your ears if you will, and that the meters will only distract you? B) Long before plugins brought all these things together, there's always been slightly-advanced ways to setup your DAW's routing to play back references through your monitoring, and level match that mastered ref with your mix without going through your 2-bus processing chain etc., in order to A/B somewhat apples to apples. I assume you were on board with this to see how your mix stacked up again the competition. (You probably have amazing videos explaining it much better than I just did.). Can I also assume that you'd advise not 'copying' the reference, just 'referencing' the reference? Your mix is your mix? C) Ages ago, adding visualization to the reference process came in the form of Voxengo SPAN, for free. And there's a ton of videos out there for how to set it up, not only to "see" what you "hear" in your Own mix, but also to Sidechain in your References and actually See the differences that you may not have even heard, or if you had, maybe couldn't pinpoint. Have you not been doing this, or felt like it wasn't helpful, or worse...distracting? D) It seems to me that this current generation of plugins are essentially automating processes and techniques that we've been doing manually for years, and I'm not always convinced that the automated version is actually better. The logic of consolidating a bunch of things into an all-in-one solution sometimes is great and sometimes involves too many compromises. Consolidating a Console Master-Section complete with monitor-controller, a way to hear references, metering, analyzers etc into one plugin is tricky business. Metric AB would be my top recommendation in that category (for the usual $29 Plugin-Alliance sale price). But it can't do what SPAN or Span Plus can do. (okay so what's the question?). I guess All-in-One vs Build-your-Own? E) I know this video is about a product, but I LOVE your channel because it focuses on fundamental techniques rather than just the latest products or "tips & tricks". With this particular video, and the reason I wrote this long-ass comment, it seems that you are 1) using a New Product that is doing something many of us already do...better 2) learning or maybe just embracing a New Technique yourself, when we usually come to you to find those things. So how Would you have referenced your mix Before this plugin? Both for Tonal Balance and for Loudness? F) Sonible are Amazing, I agree with you there. But in your demonstration, there seems to be one gigantic thing missing... Actually PLAYING BACK the REFERENCES! Maybe you just chose not to for copyright reasons, but I didn't see anywhere in your demo where it was easy to Play Back the refs. So does it not Let me mix with my ears? Am I supposed to trust that little line Entirely? They know better than I do what my mix should look like on their graphs? I'm being a bit facetious, but this does seem like at best an Incomplete solution. You still need to reference on your Reference Monitors. It seems to handle the level matching and analysis for you, but that doesn't buy me much if I still have to set something up to Hear the references. Am I missing something here? If it doesn't consolidate what is already a major part of the workflow, then is it just another Add-On? That again I can already get with a Free download of SPAN? G) ....No that's it, my name is G. Im just signing off now! G. (I hope this is taken in good faith. I know I'm clownin' a bit, but somewhere in there are real questions and concerns.)

[@WeissAdvice]

whew - ok, lot to get through here. A. I think references are helpful for getting a general sense of things and inspiring some ideas. But I'm very much an advocate of "every song is it's own thing." Making something sound too much like a reference is a trap. B. Setting that up without plugins isn't tough, you just route it out another set of outputs playing back from pretty much any source. Maybe requires a software "console" to do in a computer, but most interfaces have that. Definitely reference the reference, not copy. C. I PERSONALLY don't do a lot of referencing. Most of the time I just make my mix. That doesn't mean other people should do it how I do it. I think most people benefit from referencing. I've just found in my experience it influences me in negative ways more than positive ways, except maybe in the sense of like - general loudness. D. I think it's up to each person individually. If an automated process gets you close to what you want efficiently I don't think it's wrong. I like Metric A/B. I like True Level and True Balance. I don't personally like the Ozone automated mastering, but I like Ozone modules. Ultimately I like my own decision making process the best. E. Maybe I'm just discovering metering in a way that's palatable to me personally. I haven't looked at an RMS/LUFS meter maybe a handful of times in the last ten years, at most. My referencing has always been with the song itself since about 2010. I turn my monitoring to a certain level, and I know that if it sounds loud and proud on playback then I'm good. The actual tone curve of a record, I don't really. need a reference for that: EXCEPT THE PRODUCER REFERENCE. That one is important. And I usually import that into the session and send out a separate set of outs so I can go back to it. F. It doesn't playback the reference. That's not personally important to me. But if that's the way you like to work I definitely recommend Metric A/B. I'm not familiar with SPAN, but if that does what True Level is doing but better - yea, use that! Thanks G!

[@G_handle]

Yeah...that was a Lot! Thanks for the reply though. I mostly agree with and follow everything you just said. But basically, you don't put the same kind of stock in References that others do. Which would logically lead to NOT digging into better ways to do something you're not that interested in. Makes sense. As for this plugin though, out of curiosity, without being able to actually Hear the references, why does seeing them impress you? Anyhow, Yes each song is its own, not a clone. Thanks again.

[@davelordy]

I knew I had serious phase issues when I mono'd the mix and my washing machine stopped.

[@WeissAdvice]

LOL - that's a very serious serious phase issue.

[@PatrickObiang]

Very interesting! Thanx!

[@WeissAdvice]

Thank you!

[@9fruitstudios276]

Does true level and balance work with Windows 8. Asking all. Thanks.

[@vancenichols9490]

I will piggy-back on what has been said already by others in this forum about how this product suite is very similar in purpose as Izotope Ozone. However, I'd be curious to know if you would consider conducting a "shoot-out" between the two to suggest which would be "best". I'm very appreciative of your presentation! Thanks!!! 🙂

[@WeissAdvice]

Hmmmm.... Sonible vs iZotope. That's a tough one. I have Ozone and don't use it much. I have Sonible plugins and I use Smart Comp and now True Level pretty often. So... that's where I'm at with it. BUT, Ozone is great. So maybe I just got bored with it LOL

[@promiseayeni8222]

Hey weiss, can you do a mix tutorial on pyschedelic vocals or mix?

[@WeissAdvice]

I don't have a lot in the way of psychedelic stuff tbh. So I'd have to think about how best to demonstrate the concepts.

[@promiseayeni8222]

@@WeissAdvice mainly on vocals by the way, I have been working endlessly to get those psychedelic(if that’s it) vocal effect used on Travis Scott’s “Astrothunder” and “Skeletons”

[@promiseayeni8222]

Just to add another option, 070shake psychedelic and experimental vocals is just another perfect example.

[@THEFUTURESOUNDBEAT]

🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥 i like that low end dam

[@WeissAdvice]

Jon Leone did the production. He does a lot of the Becky G, May & Ricky, Camillo stuff. And many other great artists.

[@THEFUTURESOUNDBEAT]

@@WeissAdvice

[@housegeek3511]

The problem whit this plugin is that you can not choose the loudest part of the reference song. I did a simple test checking the balance of the same track I put in the reference and the result is unreliable. You can check in my channel the video I made. The plugin is saying that the track has too much low end compared to the reference (which is the same track) probably because is referencing a part without low end (maybe the intro? I don't know). The only way is editing (whit and audio editor) the reference track export just the drop and using is as ref, but this is not comfortable I think. They should add the possibility to choose the reference part and loop it.

[@WeissAdvice]

That's a good point.

[@MusicChannel-rf5zz]

Maybe just cut the loudest portion & paste? Thanks for pointing it out.Hope they add the feature .

[@housegeek3511]

Yeah I did it but not very handy. Yeah I hope too@@MusicChannel-rf5zz

[@lilrealondatrack]

Interested in The true balance if I'm not mistaken the true level seems to be already apart of the smart limiter

[@WeissAdvice]

Maybe. I don't actually have any affiliation with them so I don't really get any kind of brief on the plugins or the release. I get an NFR and then I do whut I waaaaaant.

[@alfredgrupstra]

Partially yes, but when you work with true level you'll see it's more detailed and has more info. And it also works with other limiter.

[@joebadgley3630]

Where do I find it once the trial is downloaded??

[@WeissAdvice]

should be on the Sonible website.

[@TheMonkBeatsOne]

thanks Matt, the dynamic meter is very interesting, to test for sure. did you try the smart limiter?

[@WeissAdvice]

So... generally if something doesn't really work for me for whatever reason I'm a bit hesitant to talk about it. I think Smart Limiter is solid, but ultimately I still personally prefer Fabfilter Pro-L2. That doesn't mean you or anyone else might not get better results with Smart Limiter, that was just my take on it. If I don't intend to use something, even if I think it's good, I don't show it on my channel.

[@TheMonkBeatsOne]

@@WeissAdvice yeah I know your policy, not only I respect it but I agree 100%. I never tried the smart limiter, neither the Fab Filter. I use DMG Limitless, Weiss MM1 and Waves L2. The Fab Filter limiter is in my try list since ages, hope to test it soon. Thanks for sharing thoughts.

[@ashokflash]

Hey give more

[@alite502]

🔥🔥🔥

[@WeissAdvice]

Thanks Tony!

[@NoQualmsTheArtist]

Since you're referencing mastered songs to your mix, won't they always be less dynamic and isn't that taken care of in the mastering process not the mix?

[@WeissAdvice]

I use the reference as I'm printing my REF Master, which I do with every mix. Clients aren't really interested in hearing misprints 9/10 times.

[@NoQualmsTheArtist]

@@WeissAdvice so this isn't for the mix that goes to the mastering engineer, it's the mix (reference master) that gets sent to the client for approval? Or do you send this version to mastering because it is the one that is approved, or do you send both?

[@zwsh89]

All I have to say about these is “ma beep beep” (ma beep beep, ma beep beep, ma beep beep). Damn if that little mini-hook ain’t catchy AF

[@WeissAdvice]

Akon x Becky G x Beaker from The Muppets.

[@zwsh89]

@@WeissAdvice hahahah next you gotta put a sample of the Swedish chef under the chorus of your next pop track! I’m ready for some “schmorgen-blorgen” delay throws!

[@Overxpossed]

nice vid. Ozone 💀

[@WeissAdvice]

Thanks Overxpossed!

[@9thaudioBeats]

He didn't actually run a check at the end, hence why he didn't agree with the reading lol

[@WeissAdvice]

I just used the plugin wrong? LOL... that makes sense.

[@9thaudioBeats]

@@WeissAdvice video served it's purpose though. I've been using the new Sonible bundle like crazy. Thank you for the review/demo

[@RedSpark_]

I'm not sure how I feel about these kinds of plugins. It feels like it's too easy for it to become a goal at the expense of the song. Imagine if a super dark record like Mobb Deep's The Infamous had the tonal balance of a modern up beat club rap track. 😂

[@ReeseWitherknife]

Well in that case you'd be using a modern up beat club rap track as a reference to mix something super dark, like Mobb Deep's The Infamous - which you wouldn't, because clearly you know how silly that would be. This plugin lets you choose your own references, which seems to be the entire point.

[@cbrooks0905]

I use Tonal Balance Control, and after many experiments with using my ears as opposed to making things match the meter I have to say you’re right. Sometimes songs don’t match whatsoever and trying to make them conform makes them sound like shit. The meters are a good tool, but like he says, they’re not going to mix for you.

[@RedSpark_]

@@ReeseWitherknife yeah but you need lots of songs to create an average. if you're using only one or two songs and one has 16th note hihats or some high pitch synth earcandy hook and the other hasn't you're going to completely throw off your high end chasing it. Songs fundamentally have tonal differences due to having different instruments, arrangement and tuning. It also isn't the way that it will be used by 90%+ of people given that most people stream their music and the plugin behaves like it works fine without it. It's not like the UI starts with a big "PUT YOUR SONGS HERE" prompt.

[@commonsense5188]

@@RedSpark_ I agree with you overall. When I see plugin reviews like this, or for instance Ozone's Tonal or whatever it's called etc etc, I admit I do get intrigued. However, near the end of the video, I always end up on the fence about it more or less. I can appreciate the attempt at innovation, and for those who are new to mixing etc, this could be the ticket they are looking for. But besides basic levels, I don't really use references to get "my sound" so to speak. I will check references to get a quick overall picture, but anything beyond that I want to have my fingerprint. When I mix my own material, I know what I want it to sound like, and that's usually not like anything currently out. I want to differentiate my productions and mixing. Matching levels in terms of loudness is fine, but other than that, I will guide this train wherever I want it, and I don't really want a program telling me what to do. Smart EQ 3 however is interesting in terms of getting masking under control though when mixing stems etc.

[@WeissAdvice]

That's actually a REALLY important point. I like the idea of being able to load in your own references - especially if you are making a mix trying to improve on a producer's reference mix. Because it gives you RELATIVE information. But in general, yea, most metering can't really account for stylistic choices

[@OJAHBEAT]

WEISS YOUR MIXING WITH EMOTIONS COURSE DOES IT INCLUDE A TEMPLATE TO PRACTICE WITH....

[@WeissAdvice]

IT INCLUDES TRACKOUTS TO ONE OF THE RECORDS FEATURED IN THE VIDEO THAT YOU CAN USE FOR PRACTICE AND FOR YOUR MIX REEL!

[@eranddroory9987]

Sponsored video?

[@WeissAdvice]

Nope.

[@andreaslorunser4112]

aber, die integrationszeiten...