Welsh rugby in turmoil

BBC Wales commentator Gareth Rhys Owen gives us an insight into the contract situation convulsing Welsh rugby, with RTÉ panelists Bernard Jackman and Donal Lenihan offering their take afterwards
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[@DamienJoy93]

Amazing save by Donal at 5:18

[@Camcolito]

He's known as Deadeye Donal, you should see him catch flies with chopsticks.

[@janhbhugo5085]

The world needs the Welsh Rugby Players !

[@markc3258]

Like in football. Your last professional club has a duty of care to get you back to health if injury occurs during the contract . Same should apply here in rugby .

[@leemorgan6297]

Donal absolutely nailed it. As a Pontypridd supporter I still hold my head in disbelief as to what the WRU did to our well supported, competitive and beloved club game. We were never, ever, going to be successful with a regional set up. And never will.

[@robertedwards3551]

I couldn't agree more and was also a Ponty regular as a school boy playing in the 70's & 80's. It always seemed to me that Welsh Rugby did best when players were dispersed among many teams and we all seemed content that the most talented got jobs with no work from favourable & unofficial sponsors and boot money, so a more formalised version of this system would work best for Wales. The idea of large full-time squads in four regions appeared ambitious beyond achievement and I could never see how it might be financially sustainable. I was playing at St Peter's in 95 & 96 and even we got paid, which was ridiculous and the WRU foolishly thought that such sponsors as Heineken would last forever without having any understanding of what "professional" meant.

[@tomgreene1843]

A really sad story for the players who have no certainty of income .

[@celticlofts]

I agree.

[@woganjones2012]

Note: Wales is not a principality.

[@celticlofts]

I'd love to hear the views of the Welsh rugby supporters. Should the players take strike action?

[@yddraigoch]

wrth gwrs - mae'r undeb wedi bod yn warthus ers yr 80/90au / yes the WRU have been inept since the 1980's - absolute Cachu/shyyte

[@davet6079]

Looking on a forum I saw not many of the supporters are supportive of a strike. Their support is very conditional.

[@raytreherne26]

A strike now in the middle of The Six Nation, regarded as the best rugby competition in the world, would be a catastrophe for the game itself, the players and all the businesses that rely on this income to survive. That said, how have the WRU management allowed this situation to happen in the first place. The structure of the management and some of the managers need to be changed. I am supportive of the players going on strike to force the situation to a resolution, but not whilst the Six Nation is running. The players have, however, been a little foolish by giving the Union until Wednesday to sort out the problems. If the union does not resolve, the players will have to strike. Or never be taken seriously as a body in the future. As a welshman living in Ireland, to see this happening and have the comments thrown at you is not a happy place to be, but as a nation we have allowed it to happen and deserve the criticism that follows. It can only get better??

[@jamesstevenson3279]

100% yes, from a scarlets supporter. The game in Wales is rotten from grassroots clubs to the top. The whole game needs restructuring. A club in 5th division should have no say in how the pro game is funded re the wru constitution. Time to get rid of the old blazer boy network in wales

[@Poweroftouch]

I hink also all fans are behind them wat ever they decide .it's Wats best to get an outcome they need ?

[@patrickoleary2862]

Great discussion - no quick + easy fixes, that's for sure.

[@peteryoungpeteryoung965]

The Welsh regions were set up by a Kiwi, who had no idea about the passion in Welsh club rugby. It was like telling Liverpool and Everton that they had to merge.

[@ala-hc4rx]

From a kiwi, who set it up ??thanks

[@ryanmacdonnell8987]

@@ala-hc4rx David Moffett apparently

[@markc3258]

Time to start again then .. line in the sand . Long term gains

[@barrypower6822]

@@markc3258 well its no point if not funded properly from the outset

[@markc3258]

@@barrypower6822 very true Might have to lose a team .

[@considerthis7712]

If Wales regional rugby has no money then that they can’t pay their agreed share. End of story. Restructure administrations and sources of income. Australia had to get a loan from World Rugby to keep going, but that was based on knowing they had big earners coming up in future years: Lions tour and a WRC.

[@reubenwinter6096]

Take the pitch for the England game and then sit down. World Rugby will then have to step in.

[@oliver69cork46]

Not a rugby fan but it's sad to see rugby suffer in Wales-only wish it'll improve and sport thrives for all no matter what.

[@williamorchard3890]

Where has all the money gone? The WRU needs to be thoroughly audited, and so does Rugby Australia. Shiny arses dragging down 6 figure salaries for screwing everything up

[@donoman7243]

I always thought that scrapping the pro12/urc competition completely and allowing the players to go back to the domestic leagues where the unions could then pump the money into those clubs, e.g. the clubs in the Welsh premiership e.g would help improve attendances and local rivalries and the overall popularity of the sport

[@Dreyno]

And ensure that no Welsh, Irish or Scottish team could compete in European rugby and also be completely undercooked for test rugby? The same notion of 4 top flight teams has worked for Ireland. It’s a specifically Welsh issue. They created 2 bodge job teams and pretended Scarlets and Cardiff were regions. 4 teams within an hour of each other along the same road. Neither totally independent nor Union run.

[@Robynjanelawlor]

Just can’t get my head around Wales at the moment - I was brn in 1963 and brought up when Wales were bigger than rugby - people heard of JPR who didn’t know what rugby was’ - I just can’t believe what’s happening

[@_-.Everlast.-_]

Ahh yes, the good old days when men were men and only women could have babies, those days are gone bruh, long gone. 😐

[@iluvmusicqwe]

Did you miss the 90's and 2000's then??

[@nogamenolife705]

Ulster should try and sign some of them players. They deserve more than this for their loyalty.

[@stiofain88]

Most of them aren't good enough to play for Ulster.

[@nogamenolife705]

@@stiofain88 A few Wales forwards would help, and maybe Liam Williams?

[@celticlofts]

@@nogamenolife705 : They can't. The Irish system is centrally controlled by the IRFU which dictates that you can't have two non-Irish players playing the same position in any of the four provinces, you can only have one. Take Liam Williams for example. If Ulster wanted to bring him in to play at full back for their province the IRFU would first look to see if there's any other non-Irish player playing in that position in any of the other three provinces, if there is then the IRFU won't allow Ulster to bring in a non-Irish player to fill that position. The whole system is designed to promote the national side over that of the provinces. It gives the national coach more options, and indeed strength in depth, when it comes to selecting his team. It's a good system.

[@peterjones2834]

Jackman in charge of the Dragons was a joke he got the job cause he knew Gats. Booth at the Ospreys is the most negative coach in rugby. Peel Williams starting to get it right at the Scarlets and our young players coming through. If you give Dai the funds will make Cardiff better.

[@Dreyno]

In fairness, Dragons have never done much under any coach. Jackman isn’t unique.

[@peterjones2834]

@@Dreyno Jackman made them worse. He did a worse job than Dean Ryan.

[@Dreyno]

@@peterjones2834 Dragons got less points in Ryan’s last season than they did under Jackman.

[@Bkh0498]

@@peterjones2834 Jackman has done well out in France too

[@Rasperdan]

You can see the state in the game in Wales. When the national team play like a second devision club side...... pfff the passion has gone. To be a top rank side they need to totally focused on the job. I feel sorry for Gats... it breaks my heart.

[@Poweroftouch]

There not forced for a reason mate .keep up

[@Rasperdan]

@@Poweroftouch Forced ? um If you have a point please make it ?

[@Rasperdan]

@@Poweroftouch

[@lewiskx20]

The top brass should be so embarrassed of the way they have structured Welsh rugby. They should be the ones concerned of their wages, they may then have more determination to fix these problems. Put them in the position that the players are and I bet they would fix all the issues.

[@peterjones2834]

The WRU had money to build a brand new hotel. Problems are more than just the regions the academy need do better do many players come through with holes in there game. Media don't push the WRU. Gareth Rhys Owen is poor man verison of Gareth Charles. Jiffy not allowed to be on scrum v cause he speaks the truth.

[@garethdavies2145]

True Scrum V has become very tame, really ever since the explosive episode between Gareth Thomas and Eddie Butler back in 2006 after Mike Ruddocks departure. Jiffy kept his head down that day, barely uttered a word, so I'd challenge the notion he speaks the truth. Opinionated yes, insightful no.

[@ryanbonner25]

sad to hear, wales love the game! look after the boys across all levels...

[@paulpeters2756]

The rugby game was ruined when it all turned professional and players depend on a wage. Back in the 70's etc , all rugby players, worked and had daytime employment. The players played their club rugby, did training in the evening after work and were selected to play for Wales. These players came from all backgrounds, doctors, steel workers, miners , builders etc etc . They trained a few evenings a week and yet we're still capable of playing an 80 min match , even at international level . As soon as money gets a grip everything turns to shite , whatever the sport . If players are paid x amount of thousands a year salary and all they do is attend training sessions and keep fit , how come they can't even last 80 mins of a match . Replacements were for injuries only , not too change half the team in a game. The WRU have trashed the game in Wales, stupid contract rules, 60 cap rule and greasing their own pockets instead of funding rugby at all levels. If the players do decide to strike, then they have my backing because drastic changes are needed as Welsh rugby is going backwards not forwards . To be honest the way we are playing now I wouldn't even bother too send a team for the World Cup, save the money, start from scratch and prepare for the 6 Nations in 2024. All the best guys whatever you decide.

[@robertedwards3551]

The inevitable end of professional rugby union in Wales

[@_-.Everlast.-_]

Not yet, just wait till they force a women's league on you that want equal pay because reasons. 😂👍

[@1477wales4]

They will sorted it out

[@colejones6312]

Not even close.

[@robertedwards3551]

@@colejones6312 Of course it is, or at least in any meaningful way. Professional rugby in Wales was always unsustainable because Wales is poor and can't afford professional sport.

[@colejones6312]

@@robertedwards3551 Been a while since I've read a comment as nonsensical as this. Wales are so amateur that they are ranked 28th in Football and 9th in Rugby. Go figure.

[@daviddavies4535]

scrap the 60 cap rule you can play where you want and if you good enough you will be picked for internationals thats the simplest you cannot expect a garanteed wage for 15 years because by the time you have 100 caps you are on the down hill and you should not play internationals, and for me if you strike next week you should never be allowed to put on a welsh shirt again

[@reddragon1572]

The problem with that is a lot of the top players will leave Wales to get close to double the salary. You then have regions with no top players, who cannot compete. We kind of see it already as a lot of the top players hardly ever play for their regions. They were either encouraged by the WRU to do this, to keep them fit for selection or they thought they were above them. A bit of both imo. The result is no real competitive top region in years. Scrapping the cap rule would only exaggerate this unfortunately.

[@johnmitchell2269]

@@reddragon1572 If the ridiculous 60 cap rule was binned, then it wouldn't matter where the Welsh players play their club rugby.

[@reddragon1572]

@@johnmitchell2269 of course it would. They would likely go to France or England for the big contracts. This would leave the regions with only a few international players. Go and face Leinster ect with no top players and you are guaranteed a tuning. Great for the supporters that, hence the low attendance because the standard is not good enough. Also the other issue of the regions and clubs losing their identity. A real shit show and it is getting worse.

[@johnmitchell2269]

@@reddragon1572 But those Welsh Internationals who now play in stronger leagues, would all improve due to playing against better opposition in more competitive leagues. They would also be happier too (due to being on better contracts). All good things for the national team.

[@MrBizteck]

100 caps and your over the hill? Richie McCaw Brian O'Driscoll Johnny Sexton Alun Wyn Jones All well over the ton and was/is breaking balls on a weekly basis. I hate to see a strike but at this stage its time for Wales to do somthing for their players instead of players sacrificing their health for Wales. Are you going to pay the mans mortgage if he cracks his spine ? Thought not.

[@Gilboy63]

We are NOT a principality ffs. Just as Ireland has never been a kingdom!

[@paulwilson2651]

Sadly Wales and Scotland are English colonies.

[@Gilboy63]

@@paulwilson2651 you are so right sir! Sadly, only about 250000 of us Welsh are willing to die for our freedom from the yolk of English rule. 600000 of the population here are English or other foreign birth, and the rest of the Welsh are Brits. So at the moment at least we are fucked.

[@johnmitchell2269]

@@Gilboy63 There is no money in Wales. If Wales was fully independent and no longer part of Britain or the UK, then where would the money come from? The only way such a small country with a population of 2 million could function (independently) would be to have 60% income taxation. Money doesn't grow on a tree. Most of the money Wales gets comes from Westminster and the English tax payers.

[@Gilboy63]

@@johnmitchell2269 I received a doctorate in Economics from Cambridge explaining the exact opposite to your thesis. But I guess you know better than me and the Economics professors at Cambridge?

[@johnmitchell2269]

@@Gilboy63 Population of England: 57 million (that's a lot of tax payers generating an enormous amount of money) Population of Wales: 2 million (hardly any tax payers and a country that generates sod all money) You don't need a degree to figure out where Wales is getting it's money from, just a small amount of common sense.

[@sand9374]

What a mess. How they got into this is inconceivable. Such a proud rugby tradition in Wales and I fear based on a lost generation they will be in the wilderness for some time. Probably make a WC semi though🤣

[@deaddropholiday]

And I thought Rugby League was in a bad state lol

[@chrisr5499]

Some solid crowds for both Super league and Championship this weekend gone.

[@deaddropholiday]

@@chrisr5499 Wish I'd been one of the 900 watching Saints beat Penrith in the WCC. Just came at the wrong time for me or I would have gone (and likely returned divorced!)

[@chesterdonnelly1212]

I see a parallel between the Super League and the Welsh Premiership. Both are important to their communities. Rugby league is important to Lancashire and Yorkshire. The Welsh Premiership is important to Wales. Unfortunately the WRU messed it up and prioritised the Wales national team above all else. The Welsh Premiership should not have been so undervalued. It was, and still is, Wales's number one league in any sport. It should be cherished like the GAA in Ireland.

[@deaddropholiday]

@@chesterdonnelly1212 True. But all of these leagues (league and union) are corrupt to the core. Tinpot empires run by men with tiny brains and fat wallets who exploit the fans for every last penny.

[@chrisr5499]

​@@chesterdonnelly1212 ​ Well said but the damage has been done mind you the premiership Welsh teams could always hope over to Rugby League pro/semi pro system ;)

[@curlywirly1945]

talks of strikes make me think that unions and politics have there grubby hands in it....comrade Drakeford comes to mind...

[@waverunner3911]

Cardiff Arms Park no the millennium stadium no sorry the princapalty if Wales RFC are skint just resale the stadium name to the highest bidder again,

[@phillipfairbrass3575]

Be in more trouble when these players sue for neglect, the game is going woke, rugby used to be played hard, no players are going ohh i hit my head, time to sue

[@tim.jenkins75]

Pull the 4 teams out the RUC and watch world rugby fold 🙄 Ireland need our clubs to function too ✌️

[@jamestooher7066]

It's PSNI now.

[@mrheck5311]

Ireland has Scotland, SA and Italy. SA have more sides like the Cheetahs who are looking to join.

[@888young2]

Isn't rugby the only thing the welsh have going for them?

[@chesterdonnelly1212]

They're also good at singing.