Were the Top 3 Espada DISAPPOINTING? What Went WRONG with Aizen's STRONGEST Arrancar? | Discussion

[@MrTommo2304]

Did the Top 3 Espada fights live up to the hype? Which fight was best...and which was worst? And how do they compare to Yhwach's elite guard? Let me know!

[@fernandotredinnick7443]

Favorite fights were Barragan & Stark, but the 3 fights could have been better. Some parts felt rushed, I think the Shonen Jump should have a biweekly or monthly schedule. Also, Love should have died in battle against the wolf army and Hachi should have sacrificed himself against Barragan.

[@Psychoveliatonet]

Definitely didn't live up to the hype (aside from maybe Barragan). They had the same problem as the rest of the arc - there was no sense of danger whatsoever. I remember back in the day there were whole chat rooms of people complaining about that every chapter. TYBW arc changed that and people respected the antagonists much more for it. So, comparatively, Sternritter did a whole lot better than Espada. Certainly, they felt more effective.

[@Milkman740]

​@@Psychoveliatonet That is one of Kubo's flaws as a writer. You know that popular characters never die if they are the good guys. How many captains of the gotei 13 have actually died in battle against an enemy? I can think of only Yamamoto. Unohana died training Kempachi, Komamura turned into a wolf and Ukitake dies when mimihage gets absorbed. Then there is the zero division who technically kill themselves except Senjumaru. The bad guys in bleach have a terribly track record of killing captains. Only Yamamoto and Senjumaru die fighting bad guys. It is hard to create a sense of danger when characters keep comming back from near death. Even the "fodder" vizard keep comming back from being defeated and turned into zombies.

[@danielvilasboas6365]

The Halibel fight is even more sad when we remember that Hitsugaya was not even in his full strength if her scaped the ice prision and the fight lasted a lit bit more his true bankai (adult version) would wipe the floor with her.

[@qwirkt]

Barragan felt pretty hype. Starrk looked weak in his fight, could have been much better, maybe gotten a more threatening ressureccion. Halibel was doing well but got beaten by Hitsugaya in a way that looked too easy, and then done dirty by Aizen for no reason lol.

[@spiderdude2099]

The Stark fight has to earn points becuase it comprised 98% of everything Ukitake ever did in the whole series.

[@Myako]

Good point. A character that was (at best) charismatic. Otherwise, he was completely useless throughout the whole story.

[@vorpalinferno9711]

Oof.

[@overhaul.-.]

Sad but true

[@kyle013100]

In his defense wonderweiss took out two captains and a lieutenant lol

[@Myako]

@@kyle013100 true, but we never saw much of a battle.

[@Oblivion___]

When Halibel used Resurrección my reaction was: "She is winning, why did she use that form?" And my reaction afterwards was: "Why the hell did she get weaker after using Resurrección?"

[@tartopomme8946]

My exact reaction. This fight doesnt make any sense. I still remember reading the chapters, seeing bankai hitsugaya being destroyed by base Hallibel, then her one shoting Hitsugaya with her resureccion as she should, then waiting 1 week for Hitsugaya to tell "i survived because of this ability i can only use once", telling myself "yeah ok... then hallibel just need to OS him again, he said he cant survive anymore" and instead... witnessing Hitsugaya now fighting on par with her. This was so bad it still hurt me 10-15 years later

[@StupidButCunning]

I feel like a large part of Hitsugaya's initial performance being lacking was because of how he wasn't paying attention, too distracted by Momo being on the battlefield, as that point was especially labored on. Upon realizing he had to take this completely seriously when he would have otherwise been one-shot, we saw his full potential. The pacing of that battle and how that was conveyed leaves a lot to be desired but at least it somewhat makes sense.

[@matthasch847]

​@@StupidButCunningYes, and Hitsugaya always use Bankai first as his Shikai n Bankai have no difference other than producing more ice. So it makes sense to go Bankai immediately after a fight starts.

[@Teddy3230-u4d]

Halibel had strength hands down. If it wasn’t for his versatility Hitsugaya would have died. The top 3 Espada got fodder treatment which sucks because they were hella interesting. Part of the main reason people claim Ulquiorra was stronger in his second form is mainly because he was more important narratively despite that not being a closed and shut case.😔.

[@MidnightTimez17]

Barragan was also winning in his grandpa form

[@KaiserAfini]

I think Barragan was great, his abilities too. Stark's backstory was interesting but rushed, his abilities could have been used more creatively. Harribel felt like she deserved better, her backstory was handwaved and her abilities were underwhelming, which is sad for a character with such a cool design.

[@BushyBrowsHD]

I do think harribel could've had more to her abilities, but hitsugaya was also her antithesis with his zanpakuto ability

[@dumberdummer]

I rewatch Barragan and Starrk's fights relatively often. I pretty much never watch Harribel's

[@youtube-kit9450]

Barragan imo was handled perfectly. He was an unstoppable force of nature, just barely hurt by Jakuho Raikoben, a fucking ballistic missile, and the only way he was slowed down or defeated was by his infinite arrogance, be it dumbass Omaeda slowing him down for said shot, or the perfect end to his character with how he was defeated. Harribel just got shoved to the sideline, being just in eternal conflict with Hitsugaya even though she oneshot him without Resurrection and he only got saved by an ability he only could use once. And then she does nothing but clash with the person she allegedly curbstomped until Aizen offs her. Starrk in resurrection being beaten easily by a fucking Shikai was just absolute travesty. Especially after we saw that Kyoraku's Bankai was a bunch of barely understandable nonsense that would've been perfect to introduce against Starrk to defeat him only to finally be explained against Lille Barro (which then turned out to be not really explained at all in the fight and he got defeated by some dumb heirloom sword never really referred to). Kubo definitely mishandled the top arrancar badly, also count Yammy to that who apparently was stronger than Starrk but got easily beaten by two Captains not going serious at all.

[@Spartt204]

Barragan should’ve fought Yamamoto imo

[@deltalord6969]

Starrk definitely disappointed me by not living, like cmon man you were such a good character with a bright future ahead of you you just needed to fight a little harder.

[@Atticus-Catnipp]

It's his mindset. He always felt lonely and after witnessing the end of Barragan he didn't see a reason to still participate in this war anymore. Because the Shinigami would just kill all his comrads

[@sh4d0wfl4re]

Of all the Espada to later be revealed as still alive despite their on-screen demise Starke would have benefited most by this treatment. Someone that lonely and desiring of comrades would have benefited greatly by meeting and befriending those that could survive his presence outside of hollowdom. He, like Kenpachi, had long sought out that sort of comradery. Tis why Zaraki won’t be doomed to the lonely fate of Unohana

[@Maxjuliann]

He needed to fight someone else if he wanted to live . The fact that he was obsessed with seeing kyoraku bankai would have led to his demise too

[@Rhekon]

He was *never* going to win. Shunsui was his opponent. He fights dirty to win and can kill one shot starrk.

[@micah459]

Nice villains don't survive in Bleach. Only the messed up characters live 😂

[@nathanielduggan1684]

Crazy what a 180 Kubo did on powerscaling this arc. He started out making the 6th Espada's base form so strong he could solo Bankai Ichigo then almost immediately backtracked just so.... what, Aizen could solo the Gotei 13? Honestly makes me wonder why Aizen even went through the trouble of making a secret hollow army when he ended up doing everything himself in the end

[@Daniel-q9f8p]

Wonderweiss was the only Hollow that did anything

[@jrgenvellesen7800]

He just needed them to stall for time in order to subdue the Hogyoku. He even states plainly that he did not put any trust in any of them, and the story makes it clear that the only ones that was a real threat to him was Yama and the 0 Squad. Plus, Ichigo was in a really bad place mentally during the first Grimmjow fight, which is why he was beaten so soundly.

[@nathanielduggan1684]

​@@jrgenvellesen7800 3rd grimmjow fight bankai Ichigo (fast enough to outspeed Byakuya if not even faster since his power is more stable after hollow training) is still only just equal to base Grimmjow. And if Aizen needed to stall for hogyoku time, he could've just not started the war 2 months early 😂

[@jrgenvellesen7800]

@@nathanielduggan1684 Remember that a big reason why Ichigo did so well against Byakuya is because he was constantly surprised by what Ichigo could do, and that he was actually internally conflicted about the execution situation. In Bleach, being emotionally conflicted will literally make you weaker. And again in the Grimmjow fight, Ichigo was weaker because he was worried about Orihime. And with Aizen, again, the only one among the Gotei that was a real threat to him was Yama, which is why he created Wonderweiss. He was more invested in making Ichigo stronger so he could help push him into becoming a transcended being, then his Arrancar actually being a useful army.

[@Username-cs1bi]

@@jrgenvellesen7800 "And with Aizen, again, the only one among the Gotei that was a real threat to him was Yama, which is why he created Wonderweiss. He was more invested in making Ichigo stronger so he could help push him into becoming a transcended being, then his Arrancar actually being a useful army." and this made Aizen look like an idiot despite the series keep trying to promote him as 'I am 20 steps ahead of you'. What did Aizen ended up achieving honestly? He failed his primary objective, he didn't even get to see/fight Squad 0, nobody from the shinigami's side actually died (or at least those named character, let's not count the fodders whom Kubo clearly didn't give a 2 shit about).

[@samulityyska2269]

I totally agree. The fact that Ulquiorra gave the heroes a better run for their money than any of the "big three" is perhaps the most concrete example of this problem. Harribel and Starrk are my favourite Espadas from the "big three", and especially Harribel's fight felt like a big letdown. The buildup and backstory she got during the earlier arcs created an image of stoic, wise and powerful leader that could have easily decimated Hitsugaya. Same with Baraggan. I mean, he is basically Death itself, and you shouldn't be able to kill decay.

[@blackfrieza1912]

@samulityyzja2269, to be fair ulquiora only gave ichigo a hard time while the top 3 Espada's were giving the captains a hard time to the point that the vizards had to help them

[@thelastgalvanizer]

@@blackfrieza1912 so what you're saying is that you scale Ichigo below the likes of Hitsugaya and Soifon?

[@blackfrieza1912]

@thelastgalvanizer . You do realize that ichigo barely beat grimmjow who was ranked 6th right and was getting destroyed by nnoritora regardless of what shape and condition he was in

[@thelastgalvanizer]

@@blackfrieza1912 Wrong. We all know that Ichigo's power fluctuates greatly depending on his state of mind. He was struggling the majority of their fight with Grimmjow until Orihime's words put his mind in the right place, and from that point onward Ichigo gain the upper hand and won that fight convincingly. Nnoitra jumped Ichigo when he was already exhausted; considering that Ichigo gets much stronger after that fight (as evident in his subsequent performance against base Ulquiorra), I can guarantee that fully recovered Ichigo beats Nnoitra at that point in time, although not without struggle. Hitsugaya's fight against Harribel makes no sense, as pointed out by MrTommo, considering that he too was struggling with substitute #6 not that long ago. Ichigo is the main character ffs, and Hitsugaya (during this arc) and Soifon are middle tier captains (no offense to them or their fans).

[@blackfrieza1912]

@thelastgalvanizer . You do realize that histugya wasn't at his full power right also the top three Espada were all fighting captain level characters who they were struggling against them that needed help, ichigo literally died against ulquiora who completely destroyed him to the point that he needed a holow form to beat ulquiora and while we're on the subject no ulquiora is not stronger than the top three just because yall were disappointed in their fights

[@Atticus-Catnipp]

Barragan is a primordial entity. I'm surprised that he and Yamamoto didn't know each other in the original days of the world

[@jrgenvellesen7800]

Yama is old, but he is not THAT old. Barragan seems like he would be closer to Ichibe in terms of his age, but he let himself become complacent and too arrogant.

[@sabener6255]

@@jrgenvellesen7800 ichibei live since the primale realm ,huego mundo itself is younger than ichibei

[@almightygod2144]

Baraggan isnt that old, he's younger than Zanpakuto and the Seireitei. Ikko is the first Hollow.

[@sabener6255]

@@almightygod2144 ikko isn't the first hollow. He is rhe same age as barragan. The first hollow was killed by soul king and his corose became the sand of Huego mundo

[@larkilanders]

Iko straight up calls barragan the king in brave souls ​@@almightygod2144

[@jrgenvellesen7800]

I think it comes down to the fact that the Arrancar arc ended up being much bigger then originally planned and that it was the first arc with the Soul Reapers as good guys. It would be a bit weird if they went all out so quickly in the story, but since the threat Aizen posed seems so big, it also felt a bit strange that most of the villains under him went down so quick. In the end, I would say the Espada felt more fleshed out as characters overall, while the Sternritters felt like a bigger overall threat. Which again, makes sense for the villains of the final arc.

[@SaltedBonez]

It also makes abit more sense for the Espada to be more fleshed out due to the raw numbers. There were only 10 Espada with some throwaway Fracciones while the Sternritter had a grand total of 27 letters to fill

[@NevG27]

The biggest problem with this arc (and the series in general) is Kubo's unwillingness to kill characters

[@mystic1360]

I know right, there are a few examples like byakuya, soi fon, (Mayuri for story purposes) and kira

[@gremmythoumeaux2393]

@@mystic1360And especially Hinamori and Hiyori.

[@babytoshiro7014]

Wrong. Killing characters doesn't make a story anymore or less interesting. Some manga go overboard with kills and still can't achieve half the success of Bleach.

[@gabnel1000]

@@babytoshiro7014 yeah but you never feel like the villains can actually do anything meaningful and it becomes borinf

[@jielliel]

​@@mystic1360originally, byakuya was supposed to be dead on his fight against as nodt but his fangirls threatens kubo

[@lancerguy3667]

I do like how Starrk’s character really hammers home how tragic and empty the lives of hollows are. We see from every other hollow that they spend their entire existence fighting and eating, desperately trying to get stronger, hoping that once they ascend to Vasto Lorde they’ll finally be free. But then we see one of the strongest VL’s to ever exist… and his power has left him so isolated and lonely that it ‘literally’ broke him as a person.

[@Laidback718]

Man, if you don't get your b*tch ass of the field 😂😂

[@Myako]

Of course they were. Like most things Bleach, outside Ichigo and a few Captains in TYBW, they were super hyped-up to end up doing nothing. I do admit Barragan was great and Starrk's backstory was pretty good. I mean do you remember how fearsome the Menos Grande were at the beginning? And when they talked about Vasto Lordes it was in hushed tones, they were deemed stronger than a captain. Then we see how a lowly evolved Adjuchas could have killed Harribel. Therefore, evolved Vasto Lordes should have been at the very least near-Aizen (sans Hogyouku) level. And yet....they did nothing.

[@nialencapefet5154]

I always disliked how they handled Halibel. She should have downed Histugaya in base form to the point Komamura or someone else joins him, forcing her to activate her Ressurección to counter them. And after they broke her out of the ice, it is frustrating to see that BASE Lisa is casually sparring with her while Hitsugaya and Hiyori are screaming at each other. Based on the power scaling we saw, Lisa's unreleased sword should break on contact against Ressurección Halibel's weapon (and she should not be able to react to her speed, or match her physical strength in any way). Some shinigami should have died during the fight. Just compare it to what the top 3 Upper Moons did to their opponents in Demon Slayer, and we can see how it should have been handled.

[@musalediju8142]

Here’s my problem it’s the opponents they face Harribel: torshiro is more of a great potential character than an already badass one. Lisa and hiyori normally face her with their regular zanpakutos( they also made jokes which didn’t help her intimidation) Barragan: soi fon just fought a fraction and now facing the previous king of huco mundo. This fight feels like kubo mistake on paring each other. He doesn’t want Barragan to kill soi fon and omaeda because of their potential growth. So he made barragan and omaeda play around instead of a serious fight.( his death was a away to not to show come up with another move) Starrk: his just ok, he faced the 2 longest other captains other than Yamamoto. But the problem is that kubo doesn’t want to show bankai here. Personally the FKT arc is a mistake because kubo doesn’t want to sacrifice the good characters

[@vileluca]

nailed it. As we see with Byakuya later on, even in the TYBW, Kubo wasnt comfortable killing characters

[@hass512]

Don't forget unohana is before shunsui and juushiro

[@SaltedBonez]

You explained my issue with the Barragan fight perfectly. He was stuck in a never ending game of cat and mouse the whole time against characters who aren't seen as the most experienced or powerful and then his own power takes him out

[@rf7182]

trueee, Barragan want to end the fight soon with his resurrection but actually just game of cat and mouse the whole time while spamming respira.

[@mra3076]

It sounds simple but it’s true. Good guys never lost in Bleach until the First Invasion Arc. We never witnessed these three win a fight, let alone kill anyone. The fights were lacklustre too. Starrk’s opponents being four Captains makes sense. But Soi Fon and Hachi enough to kill the King? Hitsugaya enough to withstand Harribel himself?

[@wrightl.graves3080]

Too much hyperbole with this comment. "Good guys never lost in Bleach until the First Invasion Arc." Ichigo lost in the Substitute Shinigami arc to Byakuya; then to Aizen in the Soul Society arc; and oh boy, did he lose to Grimmjow, Ulquiorra, and Yammy, among other characters. And that is only, Ichigo. Chad, Hitsugaya, Rangiku, Ikkaku, Shunsui, etc. They all lost in battles in this arc. "But Soi Fon and Hachi enough to kill the King?" No, they were not. Hachi defeated Barragan with his own power. Still a lackluster fight, admittedly, but you're still wrong about that. "Hitsugaya enough to withstand Harribel himself?" Hitsugaya is not a weak character and had a helpful elemental chemistry with her. Like the reception to Hitsugaya's power is so bipolar. On one hand, people make fun of him for being "weak" when in reality, he only lost to Aizen in the Soul Society arc thus far; then when he proves he has the power it takes to be in his position, it's considered heresay when he wins and does well. Hitsugaya was never weak, he just has terrible matchups in, often times, harsh scenarios. Overall, I agree with your sentiment that these battles could have been composed better, but I disagree with the exaggeration.

[@chancho915]

Stark never stuck with me. Barrigan has lived in my mind as a villain for awhile. His power was so perfect, and look felt like a fitting final form for a hallow. Harribell seems like her entire thing begins and ends with... Hot.

[@SomniaNox]

Starrk had potential to have really good character development by joining the shinigami and finding comrades he would actually be willing to fight all out for. The primera espada learning to overcome his aspect of death without letting it define him anymore could have been a beautiful little arc in tybw imo.

[@gammafrost]

I can agree with that. It would have been cool to see shunsui and Starrk tag team against Lille.

[@Doug_Edwards99]

I think it would’ve been cool to see Starrk’s purified soul in the Soul Society. He was a hollow killed by a Zanpakto so his soul was purified, so he could’ve shown up again. It would’ve been cool if he became a shinigami with similar power, and Lilien could’ve been his Zanpakto spirit.

[@FenrirEX00]

I still am fully invested in my head canon that Starrk took the opportunity to dip from what was expected to be a killing blow. He’s just out there, running around and hiding out.

[@manuelacosta9463]

Harribel is my favorite because she ultimately cares about her Fracciones who are basically her family. And despite her power/skills she does not desire conflict or killing on a moral basis, refusing the kill or be killed environment of Hueco Mundo. I'm glad she and her companions have survived the horrors of the seemingly endless wars of the Spirit Worlds and have found peace. Apacci sure was a saving angel getting to Orihime after Fake Karakura.

[@demon2441]

The impressive thing about Harribel and Starrl is how they didn't conform to hollow norms while being so powerful. It's kinda why I dislike Grimmjow after the arrancar arc.

[@manuelacosta9463]

​@@demon2441Indeed. They are more human than Hollow. They would've been infinitely better off with Ichigo and his friends especially given their values and what they truly fight for.

[@BushyBrowsHD]

​@@demon2441when you think about it though, grimmjows original hollow form is a tiger, so he has both his hollow instincts and possibly predatorial animalistic instincts, he desires a hunt/fight

[@jrgenvellesen7800]

@@demon2441 I think that is one of the good things about Grimmjow, he is really the only traditional Hollow that is really strong in the current era. Without somone like him, the current Arrancar would seem too much like good guys, which would kind of undermind what the Hollws are supposed to be.

[@BigJohn303]

​​​​@demon2441 Kubo himself stated hueco mundo is still a place where survival of the fittest is law even under harribels rule. And it's stated by kubo that arrancars still have to eat souls. They live in a world of cannibalistic monsters dude. They are creatures of darkness by nature. Grimmjows way of thinking is understandable. On top of that he is the aspect of destruction. And its understandable why Neliel, harribel, and stark are considered weirdos in their way of thinking amongst their species. They are the odd ones. But still Neliel, harribel, and stark had to slaughter and devour thousands upon thousands to become what they are. How else did you think they became vasto lordes ? They can't lecture grimmjow on shit. If he still wants to hunt and eat to grow stronger he can.

[@km2460]

To this day I DO NOT understand why Ukitake or Love did not use their bankai against Starrk….I get Kubo wanted to safe Kyoraku’s but there’s no reason why we couldn’t have seen theirs. That would have made the fight more satisfying!!

[@gherreraj]

Because either Kubo had not figured out what he wanted them to be yet or he wanted to save them for the end. Probably a little bit of both.

[@jaioncebollero1168]

Definitely ukitake considering that was his last battle.

[@gremmythoumeaux2393]

That bothers me so much because a Bankai is all that Starrk was ever asking for and he never got it. It’s not hard to imagine why some people downplay Starrk because while it’s true that he never went all out, technically neither did any of his opponents.

[@Myako]

Ukitake's Bankai? The one we know nothing about yet?

[@km2460]

@@gremmythoumeaux2393 the fact that Kubo made Starrk ask to see a bankai just for him to be defeated by a shikai made him look even worse imo. Yes, Kyoraku’s shikai is stronger than some captains bankai but still.

[@TheArchfiendGuy]

The interesting thing is that we're lead to believe that the Espada are evil, and the Shinigami are good, but it's far more complex than that. At the end of the day, their way of life was disrupted when Aizen took over, and I guess, in a way, they are forced to engage against the Shinigami, when they probably wouldn't have if Barragan was still ruling. Wanting to fight or not aside, it's also not as if the Espada had any real training for these sorts of circumstances. They're just thrown into a war and expected to perform well

[@jeffdcgamer1077]

i mean to be fair at the end of the day they were all hollows that evolved

[@TheArchfiendGuy]

@@jeffdcgamer1077 yeah they got a pretty good deal out of it

[@Honest_Mids_Masher]

Lmao I didn't know you also liked Bleach

[@TheArchfiendGuy]

@@Honest_Mids_Masher such a small world! Bleach is up there as one of my favourites

[@Honest_Mids_Masher]

@@TheArchfiendGuy It really is, I'm watching TYBW right now for the first time and it's amazing

[@micah459]

How does the top 3 Espada do worse than a bunch of the lower numbers? Something tells me Kubo wanted to do more with them

[@herrscherofrule34]

Unfortunately this is what happens when you are bound by a time limit. Kubo even said he wanted to do more with the Espada but couldn't.

[@youtube-kit9450]

Kubo really just wasted way too much time in the beginning with random arrancars and lower espadas so he had to rush or sideline the main 3 to the point that imo only Barragan came off looking good because his ability is so absolute that it'd make sense that he only could be slowed down/defeated by the arrogance he embodied, otherwise barely flinching from even having a ballistic missile like Jakuho Raikoben shot in his face. Like seriously, Starrk got beaten by a fucking shikai?@@herrscherofrule34

[@Spartt204]

@@herrscherofrule34even ichigo vs aizen felt mid and underwhelmingly short for a battle that was built up for so long 😅 Ichigo just pulled out two back to back bs power ups and boom aizen is down and gets sealed

[@BlackAnt27]

Aizen failed them that’s why they were a disappointment. Unlike the Gotei 13, the Espadas/Arrancar had no academy, no qualifications to join (except be strong), and no sense of team work. The Gotei did everything that the Espadas refused to do: accepted assistance from comrades, took the fight seriously instead of toying with their opponents, and most of all were motivated to be there because they had a good leader instead of a boss who can throw their weight around. Had Aizen cared about their development beyond the surface level of just wanting power, then the outcome would be different. Strength wasn’t why they lost. Keep in mind, each of the top 3 Espadas faced numerous opponents. If they could hold their own against multiple opponents, then they could have gotten the job done against one if they were truly motivated.

[@babytoshiro7014]

All of this . Dream work makes the team work. Until these villains start to learn teamwork and training they will lose.

[@Gidi66]

For me the 3 and my opinions of them are as follows. 1 - was pretty good until stark took it seriously and started killing himself, like this is supposed to be the "strongest" espada but ends up doing nothing but killing themselves, while poetic, it sucks as a battle theme. 2 - was pretty ok, did seem he liked to preech about himself. Untimely quite liked omeada and his "fight", soifon was only really interesting with her bankai, other part was just her arm had me worried the first time I saw it (I am a soifon fan) 3 - her fight with toshiro was pretty decent, that back and forth of their water and ice, seemed quite strategic, using the other person's attack as your own weapon. However that ended when lisa and hiyori got involved and the seemingly strategic fight just turned into a sword clashing fight where most of the time was hiyori and toshiro going at it before Aizen interrupted the fight.

[@micah459]

Tbh, there needed to be some casualties on the heroes side in this arc but I think Kubo was too scared to kill someone off

[@SatoshiSosuke]

This would have been better because then the Quincy invading would have had more impact. Kicking the Gotei while it was down.

[@SaltedBonez]

This definitely could've worked out. As it stands it kinda feels like the Shinigami absolutely wiped the floor with the Espada up until the top 3

[@gabnel1000]

good point, it's the weakest aspect of bleach, the villains get hyped up but always end up being somewhat pathetic and disappointing.

[@Trex10100]

I suggest soi fon, momo, ikaku, and rose.

[@protectedsouls415]

@@Trex10100 Toushirou, Rose, Hiyori & Rangiku too

[@avatar_of_battle4735]

Why did the top 3 espada fail? 1) Ulquiorra. More specifically making him seem far stronger than any other Espada by miles...because he was Ichigo's main obstacle. Had the top 3 had segunda they would've been more popular. 2) The top 3 fell in unspectacular ways. Barragan required out of the box...in the box?...thinking. Still he fell to Soi Fon and a character we didn't see much of. Stark required 2 top tier captains but they didn't need bankai and he still just didn't have the menacing presence others did for being Number 1. Harribel got handled by a mid tier captain tbh and imo had the weakest presence. 3) They simply didn't do anything. Nobody important died. Everyone knew that Aizen was the next step and after knowing he subjugated them all meant that they just weren't going to be as good as what was coming. They got sandwiched between point number 1 and one of the best villains steamrolling through the cast. They just did not have the enthralling presence required of people of their rank. 4) You made an Espada 0 and had him off screened by the 2 most popular captains which just soured everyone towards the already lackluster showdown between the top 3 and the captains lol.

[@Raver-1601]

Coz they were facing at least 3 enemies each, and none of the Espadas even significantly incapacitated one of their enemies (you could bring the argument that Starrk trashed Love and Rose, but they can still stand after and Aizen still has to clean them up)

[@BoBnfishy]

It would have actually been kind of cool if harribel had realized that her power was working against her, and reverted to base form to give herself an advantage. We really never see that happen so it would have been neat

[@gremmythoumeaux2393]

There’s a good reason why people think that Ulquiorra is more powerful than his ranking claims despite what he said to Ichigo in their 1st fight. I think his Segunda Etapa at least puts him above Harribel. Harribel felt pretty underwhelming as a 3rd Espada. While it’s true that Toshiro had a counter to her abilities, I thought she would’ve had something else up her sleeve. Toshiro himself claimed that Vasto Lordes were stronger than Captains. And she is a Vasto Lorde Arrancar meaning she should’ve been even way stronger than that considering Toshiro was talking about regular Vasto Lordes when he made that statement. Toshiro wasn’t even among the strongest of Caprains during that time in the story. After her first battle, she was still struggling against 2 lieutenants. Even Aizen cut her down because he deemed her too weak to fight for him. Given Segunda Etapa Ulquiorra’s insane speed, regeneration, and overall power, I cannot imagine him having much trouble if he had the same opponents that Harribel did.

[@Jjop017]

In fairness when the fight started she easi!y overwhelmed Hitsugaya and it felt like he stood no chance. Suddenly out of nowhere Hitsugaya went from being overwhelmed to fighting as her equal. This is the same Hitsugaya who had problems fighting unreleased Yammy and Luppi who were both weaker than Harribel. He went from being able to fight lower Espada to somehow fighting the Top 3. Harribel realistically should have mopped the flower with Hitsugaya the same way Grimmjow did to Ichigo the first time they fought. Hitsugaya going from getting his ass handed to him to suddenly fighting an Espada that is stronger than Ulquiorra (barring his second released form) as an equal was jarring.

[@QGUU]

⁠@@Jjop017Tbf Toshiro didn’t use bankai at all against yammy and idk if the anime added more but in the manga their “fight” was really short (nonexistent pretty much). And didn’t he 1 shot Luppi? He got hit by luppi’s attack then instead of getting up he prepped an attack and 1 shot em lol.

[@alispeed5095]

Ulquirrah was relative to vasto lorde ichigo who is stronger than stark and barragan its not even a comparison. ulquirrahs durability is also noteworthy what with him eating a cero from ichigo point blank and living to say his last words. Then there is his lanza spears. They make soifons nuke look like a spark lol Ulquirra was 100% stronger than starke and barragan. If he came with Aizen, some captains would have died imo before he is stopped

[@Blackmustache870]

​@@alispeed5095ulquiorra wasnt relative to vasto lorde ichigo. He got stomped and tossed around

[@alispeed5095]

@@Blackmustache870 Being relative means that he was in the same ballpark of power. This is seen with him being able to harm ichigo (he cut his horn off) And the fact that he ate a point blank cero and lived. Also his cero was able to clash favourably with ichigos cero. And finally, the bleach movie which shows another version of Ulquirra vs ichigo hollow fight has them fighting competitively and Kubo later comments this is what he had in mind originally. These are the facts

[@pieoverlord]

The Baraggan fight is still unironically one of my favourite fights in the series with Hachi's final line being one of the most iconic lines in Bleach (for me personally).

[@knightpunk6248]

Hard agree.

[@Doug_Edwards99]

It’s a truly great moment and it’s also basically the only major win that any of the Vizards ever get in the story. The only other possible example is Shinji utterly curbstomping Grimmjow, but he was lacking an arm at the time and was taken back to Hueco Mundo before he could’ve used his resurrecion. Granted I do think Shinji between his Hollow powers and his absurdly busted shikai could take on fully released Grimmjow, but still.

[@HyuchaKyrie]

thing is i believe top 3 could do more but Starkk doesnt want to fight Barragan hates aizen Tia just wants to protect her fracciones None of them were trying to fight for aizen

[@ArtsyAllAround]

Disappointing and underwhelming seem to be great words to describe a lot of Bleach characters. Espada 1-3, the entire Vizards, Chad, Squad 0 (manga).

[@joselitof.romualdojr8151]

I think I should included these in terms of my disappointing moments in bleach the fact that BG9 and Cang Du didn't really got that treatment too not to mention until now tho TYBW arc was animated we still didn't get BG9 and ROBERT'S SCHRIFT But still the top three ESPADAS should get that treatment just like how Kubo made Quincies threatful villains especially the Royal Guards

[@lolsnez7542]

Are you stupid?

[@san6984]

honestly tho this is true, so many characters in bleach are wasted potential and underwhelming as hell. its sad cause many of them have the potential to be great

[@Serger989]

I would have liked for Starrk to be the oldest Espada with regeneration superior to Ulquiorra's second release, emphasizing his loneliness that he will outlast all those around him.

[@Xjesus14X]

What went wrong to me was Ulquiorra being as strong as he was so because the other 3 being stronger than them meant the Gotei in Fake Karakura stood no chance against the 3. When Halibel released and cut Toshiro in half i was like omg its over for them if just 3 is this strong. Then next chapter you find out it was a ice clone and all the espada were nerfed to me at that point. I feel Kubo thought damn they cant be this strong i gotta change it so they can have a chance. Edit: The top 3 were robbed. If they were given the same treatment as the quincy you’d possibly see someone like Starrk erasing shinigami by being in the vicinity. I just wouldve loved to see the espada in the seritei unrestrained.

[@3slicessenpai]

The Espada definitely felt more threatening at the beginning of the arc. Yes, weaker Arrancars faced weaker Shinigami than the Top Three Espada vs the Captains/Vizards, but this slow progression felt a little bit wonky. You had Vice-Captains and Hitsugaya struggling to defeat Grimmjow's Fraccion and Luppi, but then you get to Fake Karakura Town and Kira and Hisagi are out there low-diffing Fraccions and the Captains lethargically fighting the Top Three Espada. Yes, there were major upsets like Ayon, but the threat level never felt the same as when Yami completely wrecked Chad, Orihime and (unbalanced) Ichigo, had Yoruichi injure herself on his Hierro and then Ulquiorra backhanding Kisuke's blood wave.

[@StareachValcin]

Personally, Starrk, Barragan, and Harribel weren't disappointments as characters or threats, but they had disappointing ends. Starrk was hyped up as the strongest of the Espada and fought well against one of strongest captains, but Starrk wasn't strong enough to force him to use his bankai. Not to mention the disappointment of Starrk dying. Barragan definitely had such impressive abilities that the solution to beat him was overcomplicated. Along with him being yet another arrogant member of the Espada. Tier Harribel, my personal favorite, was set up to be strong, smart, and skilled, yet she wasn't able to defeat Toshiro, despite forcing him to use his bankai despite not using her resurrecion form yet. Plus, Aizen took her out because he deemed her too weak. Not to mention that despite becoming the ruler of hueco mundo, Tier Harribel was taken out early, even if it was by Yhwach, and had to spend the entirety of the thousand year blood war as a prisoner before being rescued. Ultimately, these Espada had good starts, but disappointing finishes.

[@francoblu9498]

I remember thinking that Zaraki against Noi was the perfect opportunity to see that he had learned his Zanpakuto's name. A shikai for him to win made a lot of sense to me. And they could still reserve his bankai for TYBW. Instead they rushed both in the end. Rushing what could have been done in an amazing way feels like the theme of bleach. A theme that we see with the last 3 espada as well. I didn't have a problem with Ulquiorra's fight seeming grander than the others. I took the second release to mean he was actually stronger than them, but chose to conceal it. But, besides #2, the top 3 fights really did feel like over hype and let downs. Not just with the espadas, mind you. The vaizards felt like a waste as well. More wasted opportunities to show all sides working together to take down greater powers.

[@GhostiwiththeMosti]

I think one of the big issues is Kubos reluctance to kill off any of the soul reapers made it difficult to show the threat of the Arrancar. After all if all they do is injure their opponents not even to a critical state then there really isn’t any lasting effect to the story

[@sacredgear]

It always felt a case of editors telling Kubo to “wrap it up “.

[@devasprime6700]

The top Espada are the equivalent of hired help while the Gotei 13 and Schutstaffel have actual reasons to fight. Thus, the top Espada half ass their efforts and ultimately pay for it

[@TyranusRex721]

The ultimate problem was Kubo's writing. None of the Soul Society members really suffered in this arc because, like a lot of issues in Shonnen, people got so attached to these characters that I guess he was too afraid to kill them off, or let them lose. So all of them had to keep pulling new powers out of their ass so they could win their fights. The moment Harribel transformed, other captains should have stepped in to help. THAT would have shown that not a single captain could 1v1 one of the top 3. Star should have been soloing half the fighters by the end. Even if you want the captains to come out on top, SHOW how much of a threat the top 3 are! It was honestly this point that I stopped reading Bleach because I was so disappointed with how this arc resolved. And the fact that Stark died annoyed the hell out of me. He should have lived along with Harribel. Hell, I would have loved to see Barrigan survive too. Imagine a Hace Mundo where the 3 of them rule in a sort of triumvirate. Ultimately, the blame falls on Kubo. He seemed to have a very hard time creating satisfying endings to the final arcs of the manga.

[@cbyt8759]

Well done video! I appreciate the balance and depth you give to all your videos

[@Prushinthespirit]

Harribel vs Hitsugaya was the fight that broke an established power scaling. It was underwhelming in the manga and anime didn't make it better. Before that, Hitsugaya was humiliated by fracciones at 1/5 of his full power, while admitting that he might not have won if he didn't catch him by surprise. He was easily overwhelmed and knocked down by Espada 6 resurreccion only surviving because Luppy was a dum-dum who doesn't finish off his opponents. And now we have Hitsugaya, managing to win a round against Espada 3, to the point of her needing Wonderweiss to break herself free. Her speed, her physical strength of a hollow, her spiritual energy - she should have been able to easily overwhelm him with just that, no matter if he can freeze her waters or not. Blocked her sword - got his arm fractured, froze first water wave - got crushed ubder the pressure of tsunami that follows. Harribel was admittedly stronger than number 4 Ulquiorra, so why in the hell would she even try to strategize against one of the weakes Gotei 13 captains? I can't get away from the idea that Hitsugaya was stuffed into this fight just because he's a popular character. Her fight should've been against Ukitake. That wouldn't raise eyebrows regarding power levels, since it was already stated that Ukitake is exceptionally strong without his disease holding him back. But it would also explain him struggling against her due to disease. Moreover, could be a great chance to explore his abilities and mastery of other techniques. And finally, that would explain why Harribel needed to come up with a plan - Ukitake can redirect her attacks and is too experienced to fall for a direct strike so she'd need time to gather her powers.

[@Ker002]

I love Halibel but I hated her fight with Hitsugaya. Thank you for pointing out that Hitsugaya just miraculously had a brand new counter move to everything she threw at him. In every situation he just HAPPENED to have the PERFECT counter move that he pulled from nowhere. This is the fight that really cemented my dislike of the tiny ice boy

[@blackAngelProductions]

One of my biggest frustrations with this particular Arc even though it is my favorite I wish the espada could have been allowed to have a bit of a body count you know kill off at least a couple of important characters. Until the Thousand-Year blood war Arc that was a big frustration mine with bleach and one of my only problems with the series was that the body count on the hero side was often very low meanwhile villains will get killed left and right effortlessly.

[@tedculbertson6320]

You brought up how the Ulquiorra fight made for some crazy expectations, and I think what everyone has to remember is that Ichigo kind of sucked for most of the Arrancar arc. That really created some strange impressions of how powerful various characters were, especially since we don't get a proper explanation for why Ichigo sucked so much until the TYBW arc.

[@ghgjghbhghghgghb]

The fights themselves being mediocre rlly made people forget about the plot points, so I think it's more of an issue with the narrative

[@stealthmonkeydc2869]

I think the top 3 suffered from Kubo's burnout and time constraints more than others. Halibel is a weird one for sure, and it certainly feels in hindsight that the whole ice clone thing was Kubo changing his mind on the fly. Barrigans arrogance is core to his character and that tracks all the way up to his death so I think it made sense for that to hold him back, I just wish we had a more backstory at that stage. Looking at his relationship with Aizen it's fair to suggest that he may have actually been the no.1 Espada but got stuck at 2 because Aizen thought he would hate it. Even his sealed state looking human must be humiliating for him. Starrk I think did a great job and not many others could have walked away from that fight. I think the issue with this fight is that you come away from it thinking Starrk looked weak when in reality, Kyoraku is just crazy powerful and it's only looking back from TYBW that you see thay clearly.

[@williamgiusti7146]

We are forgetting the King Kong in the room, Yammy being revealed as the Cero Espada right before the established top 3 fought was a big screw up for them as all power progression got thrown out of the window.

[@Psychoveliatonet]

I think half the community unironically memory holed that revelation because it was so insanely stupid the story flowed better with Yammy being forgotten.

[@typeouetco1626]

I think the katakura battle matchups were just absurd. You can feel that some stuff happened just because they needed to, like wonderweiss randomly breaking hallibel out of the ice because it needed to mirror the barragan fight, or really the starkk fight as a whole

[@wrightl.graves3080]

Better matchups would have been. 1. Harribel vs Soifon The symbolism of sacrifice could be so good here and it could have shown Soifon's colder, more pragmatic view of sacrifice and Harribel's more passionate and despaired view of it. It could even feature Soifon mocking Harribel for losing her fracciones and having Soifon sacrifice Omaeda who could die for her - offers his character a good final hoorah and perhaps develop Soifon into realizing she abandoned her loyal subordinate the same way Yoruichi abandoned her. The guilt could move her to protecting Omaeda's family and little sister during the Thousand Year Blood War arc. 2. Stark vs Hitsugaya Controversial take. While the similar personalities between Shunsui and Stark will be missed, it does more for Stark and Hitsugaya's characters to be paired together - genius through diligence vs power through birth; and more importantly, how both characters respond to being born into greatness. Hitsugaya chose to work hard to live up to that, because he was lucky enough to have Rangiku in his life; Stark chose to give into his loneliness and desire to live for others, rather than himself. More than that, Stark won't go all out on Hitsugaya and even if Hitsugaya pulls out a win, it will only be sealing Stark in case and not killing him, like Shunsui did. 3. Barragan vs Shunsui and Ukitake Ukitake redirecting Respira and Shunsui's children games games against unsuspecting the Espada. More importantly, the symbolism of the Old Rule of Hueco Mundo vs the later on, New Age of the Society. Also, when Harribel and Stark are taken down, it should only be Barragan left to fight against the other Vizards, alongside Shunsui and Ukitake. Ultimately, just make Barragan this absolute monster and the Hollow version of Yamamoto that takes everyone - except Yamamoto, the lieutenants, Hitsugaya and Soifon, and maybe Shinji (save him for Gin and Aizen) and Kensei and Mashiro (save them for a battle for Tousen) - to take down. Make it a huge spectacle!

[@saucerbaby6556]

@@wrightl.graves3080 but Stark vs Hitsugaya is too unfair match

[@wrightl.graves3080]

@@saucerbaby6556 Stark will take it easy on Hitsugaya and from there, Hitsugaya can use his finishing move on an unreleased Stark to seal him. From there, Wonderweiss could arrive to break him out of the ice. Stark, watching Harribel fall to Soifon, could be inspired to take things seriously. He releases and absolutely dominates Hitsugaya. But before the finishing blow can land, we could have some Vizards enter to save Hitsugaya and the battle can continue. - Lisa could be a great canditate for her fast zanjutsu prowess and perhaps give her a bankai to foreshadow her future rise to captaincy. Something that helps her close into Stark. - Rose with his music based abilities to handle the wolves would be great too. He can provide long range support and show off more of his musical abilities. Finally, Hitsugaya could provide defense by using his ice to freeze the wolves until finally, he can freeze Stark - maybe even spare Lillinette, if we're going by anime canon. That's roughly, three captain level opponents and offers the Vizards some use. Thoughts?

[@SanguineQuest]

The biggest irony about the Espada in general is that Kubo had this overwhelming instinct to restrain himself regarding their effectiveness so he could preserve Shinigami characters and abilities, especially Bankais, for future storylines, but he had no such consideration for the Hollow characters themselves. They way he expended their lives and powers almost carelessly, making more than half of them look terrible and disappointing in the process, almost beggars belief by comparison to how he treated the Shinigami and later the Quincy. People were really engaged with the idea of Hollows being on the same level as Shinigami, enemies that could act as legitimate rivals rather than disposable monsters and potentially become allies and friends later. He basically tossed that in the trash without a care in the world. Then again, I suppose you could argue he treated the human cast and the Vaizards with similar carelessness. Despite that fact that almost ever character he ever made was instantly compelling on some level, the man clearly has a group he's more invested in than the rest.

[@protectedsouls415]

concerning your last sentence here, yeah I couldn't have said it any better to sum Kubo up

[@AnonTDegenerate]

Rose and Love should have both used Bankai instesd of Ukitake. Rose's bankai would have been a good way to reveal his wolves as well

[@MaxIronsThird]

I think the reason the top 3 Espadas didn't amount tô anything is bc Kubo wanted Aizen to take down the Gotei 13 almost entirely on his own.

[@san6984]

thats just bad writing tbh then bc why write it the way he did

[@MaxIronsThird]

@@san6984 It is bad, i never said it wasn't, i was just trying to find a reason that could have accentuaded/brought forth that "failure", to make it bad.

[@augiechiavuzzi4907]

The espada were held back but great for the teen audience that bleach had at that time. Now the audience is older and matured the tybw is what we want and we look back at what could have been and lament even though thats not what we wanted

[@christopherg2347]

All the Epsada were held back by a simple fact - they did not kill a single character. In fact, Yamamoto loosing his arm was the _only lasting consequence_ of the entire Soul Society and Fake Karakura town arcs. And that was a disability he _choose_ to keep.

[@MGI605]

After what we saw from the 6th espada and 4th one my expectations were so high till I saw the top 3 and yeah they were disappointing compared to Uliquiorra

[@TopFusboll]

Yeah espadas 6,5,4 were so much more entertaining to watch, espadas 1 and 3 were disappointing. The only one solid was espada 2

[@Spooky_Spookerson]

The top 3 Espada were disappointing simply because their fights went after Ulqiorra's I honestly think that the numbering system was just a gimmick Aizen introduced to confuse the opponents and the real number one was always Ulquiorra. He is the only one that had two stages to his Resurrection, and he is the only one that actually kills his opponent, and the protagonist of the series at that. That being said, the top 3 also far less motivated compared to Ulquiorra, he is the only one that is devoted to Aizen to a fault. It makes sense that the Sternritter would be a bigger threat, they had a personal grudge against the Shinigami. One could argue that Hollows would be in the same boat but I think Las Noches shows that Hollows just live and hunt in their own realm with no real care for Shinigami. Overall, I think Kubo rushed the fights after blowing his load on Ulqiorra's fight. And just wanted to wrap it up and get to showcase Aizen more.

[@TopFusboll]

It’s not only that. I think overall those charachters were handled very poorly. Honestly the fight between ichigo and Espada 4, ichigo vs espada 6 and Kempachi vs Espada 5 were way better fights. Those three Espadas were my favorite. I remember being hyped to see what these three can do but they were really disappointing

[@kamikazehound3243]

No it's just Ulquiorra fought the main character. Grimmjow displayed a better fight than the top 3. The fact is if Grimmjow nearly killed ichigo each time with plot being what saves him why wouldn't the number 4 espada not be able to pack up Ichigo. That said if you looked what little we got from Starrk you can see he only lost because he wasn't focused in the fight nor even wanted to fight but if you look at the level of speed he displayed and his reaction time in a fight vs Ulquiorra he could easily blitz him like Vasto Lorde Ichigo. Starrk can also bombard Ulquiorra with cero to overcome his healing. Realistically in that point of the story ichigo was not strong enough o pack up two captains with one being the future headcaptian as well as two vizards right after also even after starrk was finally hit by a big attack he wasn't even hurt, it wasn't until kyrokau snuck that he was truly injured. Point is logically speaking Starrk losing a fight against Ulquiorra doesn't make any sense and to say Ulquiorrais the strongest due to his fight agaisnt ichigo also doesnt make much sense considering how much ichigo struggled against Grimmjow so if Ulquiorrais the true number 1 then Grimmjow would be number 2 with the top three actually being 7 through 6. Hell in a q&a Kubo confirm the other espadas would also be able to achieve a second form.

[@saucerbaby6556]

I always thought that Stark was the strongest Espada, I can understand why people think Ulquiorra is the strongest because he went all out and had the best showing of all the Espada, Stark at no point of his fight wanted it, when he was fighting against Love and Rose he was just standing still, tanking hits from Love because he doesn't care. There was for sure a lot of he could show, he didn't even used strongest Espada attacks like Gran Ray Cero, Oscuras Cero, just Usual Cero. I feel like people would have different opinion on the top 3 Espada if they had more screentime. P.S. - Shunsui vs Stark, still probably my favorite fight in the series

[@sephikong8323]

I still think that Ulqiorra > Harribel though, even if he isn't the strongest, I definitely think he would humble her if they ever were to fight. The top 3 all needed better showing, but I think Harribel is still the weakest of the top 4 Espada

[@_-Bane-_Main]

Shunsui seems to agree with Jushiro that captains teaming up is an acceptable substitute for Bankai, but it makes the Espada seem unimpressive if getting jumped is enough to do them in. At least Halibel and Barragan had the dignity of see an opponent use Bankai.

[@saucerbaby6556]

@@_-Bane-_Main well, is that really that impressive? Toshiro uses Bankai on literally everybody, Toshiro and Soi Fon not on the level of Ukitake and Shunsui

[@saucerbaby6556]

@@sephikong8323 I agree, in Segunda Etapa Ulqiuorra 100% surpassed Haribell

[@sephikong8323]

@@saucerbaby6556 Hitsugaya : *sees a fodder character* Hitsugaya: "Is this the moment to activate Bankai ?" *gets folded*

[@meatkirbo]

What I firmly believe when comparing the espada to the Quincy is that everything Kubo did “wrong” or that the fans didn’t like with the former, he used in perfecting the following villains. Everything Aizen and his minions were missing came in full force with Yhwach and his Sternritter. And they do quite well, though of course they do have their own unique issues that would inevitably arise from that method of writing

[@mystic1360]

Even with their own flaws I still think the sternritter did a better job than the espada

[@Sasori2105]

I feel like Kubo once again chickened out by not having Toshiro rightfully lose when Harribel split him in two. Its as you say in the video, there is nothing that suggests he can take her 1v1 prior to that point then all of a sudden he dog-walks her. Even in the TYBW, he claims that the difference between his Shikai and Bankai is negligible, but he goes from getting tossed around by Bazz-B and Cang Don't in Shikai, to getting disrespected by Mayuri in Bankai, to then all of a sudden his 'mature' Bankai (which came out of nowhere) turning the tides against Gerard (even if only momentarily). Nothing prior even hinted that he was anywhere near that powerful. There's just too much inconsistency with him. It feels like Kubo wants to have a realistic depiction of him but cant because of his popularity. And Harribel's depiction got lost in the waves of that friction.

[@herpderp5727]

BeCaUsE hE's A cHiLd PrOdIgY Yeah but in all seriousness, I agree. The Espada in general got absolutely shafted in favor of the Gotei 13.

[@DarknessTemplar6]

Honestly I think the Espadas should have defeated some of the shinigami, there were so many characters standing even before the arrival of the vizards, I always though the tres bestias are kinda underrated in this aspect they managed to take down most vicecaptains

[@augiechiavuzzi4907]

The top three espada were an after thought it seems like and the whole arc seemed like it. Was to child friendly like there was fights and deaths but all classical TV style the good guys all survive and all the bad guys die and then it's only the aizen fight that seems to have any sort of impact on anything and then he still loses

[@mrmegalovania]

Also have to look at for Barragan specifically he loathed Aizen why would he fight Aizens fights with everything he had. He was arrogant (hence his release command arrogante) and saw all the captains as lesser than him so why fight at full power. He although was caught in his hubris and killed but you have to remember his final living act was throwing his battle axe at Aizen in hopes he'd be killed (Again he did not like Aizen what so ever so why be his loyal lapdog and doing what Aizen wanted)

[@6extaEspada]

I feel like Barragan and Starrk could have defeated many of the captains if it wasn't for their personality, Barragan being TOO Arrogant and Starrk not having any motivation to fight after Lilinette's death.

[@Hell2Kaiser]

Even worse with the battle with Harribel, Toshiro initially goes back to just shikai when Lisa and Hiyori join him. He does go back into bankai, but Kubo’s consistency here was pretty negligible.

[@CaptainKotetsu]

To be honest, Starrk is the only one of the three that I remembered pretty much nothing about after my first reading of the manga. He’s just the guy with the guns who’s there until he isn’t.

[@zacharywilson419]

I think the only problem is that unlike the big four of the quincy the top 3 Espada are harmed for not having set chapters of their own for their fights like if stark had a 7 chapter fight I total believe he would have been even more loved.

[@Blad3sofWaR]

The problem with the top 3 Espadas is they failed to do any REAL damage. Haribel - What damage did she actually do? Baragan - He took a few arms but nothing major Starkk - Took on 4 Captains and beat 2 of them but was merciful to not kill them. He showed Mercy but Shunsui didn’t reciprocate that to him. Meanwhile, Nemu gets killed, Shunsui was taken to the brink but got help from B.S., Grimmjow/Yourichi/Neliel/Urahara almost got crushed, and Kenpachi, Toshiro, and Byakura would EVENTUALLY lose to Gerard because he keeps getting stronger.

[@kevintanza6968]

I would argue that Stark showing mercy fits his character. I do agree with the rest.

[@AlexESR71]

tbf I've always thaught, just like with squad 0 manga fight, it's not that they're dissapointing themselves, it's just that the way their fights were written were dissapointing as a whole. For a smuch as I love bleach and hold it as the anime of my life, I was never content with how it was treated.

[@elbandito2990]

I just realized how many villains in Bleach that decide to transform despite winning. Kubo can write, but tbh he does alot of the villains that arent THE BIG BAD dirty.

[@rmeddy]

Yeah kinda, all had Kubo had to do was have them do more damage, I really felt Kubo should've killed off a few good guys in this arc because there wasn't much tension there overall imo Like when Ayon came in and started to wreck shop I felt some tension there and the Barragan fight had some solid moments but that was about it. Halibel and Stark mostly fell flat to me. Also at the time I thought he could've leaned into the whole Ten Vasto Lorde thing

[@ericrobinson1513]

I do not understand why Toshiro was able to use an ice clone technique he never uses agin even with more threatening opponents! Hallibell was curved heavily!

[@jonsnow2963]

I think the power scaling was off. We went from Hitsugaya struggling against non espadas or weak espadas, stating that if this was the strength of one then they are in trouble, to end up fighting Haribel with ease. Also i think noone ever felt like they were in danger unlike tybw.

[@clorinde69]

Harribel still to this day is my fav hollow design she’s just too unbelievably hot

[@TbxB95]

The top3 Espadas for me weren't disappointing, or only partially, because, like it or not, it's always all down to plot needings. They served as middle antagonists and Kubo wasn't there to reveal all missing powers during Aizen arc, while in TYBW, the final arc, he had no more limits, and extremized (too much) the Schutzstaffels as final antagonists. That said, even if the struggle was on another level, the Sternritters too failed to kill anyone, just for the plot. A point I always have with the Espadas is: they were strong, more than people give them credit for. It's just that Kubo proposed in the arc more favorable matchups for the shinigamis, since it was their moment to shine, while he crushed them during the first invasion as hype tool, but then did a similar thing, the Sternritters in the second invasion didn't have the same impact anymore (except one). That said, maybe it was because of Ulquiorra, as number 4, that expectations rised up and a sense of disappointment was left. Personally, I think it was simple the top3 Espadas just needed to defeat (not kill because of the plot) some captain. In a sense this happened, but not done well, and not definitive, since there were few of them in FKT, to be saved to face Aizen group to face later. The context itself was a "problem". Harribel fought having a natural disadvantage but was putting Toshiro in his place, but then the sky technique, frozen, and after that, the fight went literally nowhere. Barragan was fearsome, make them shit their pants, tanked 2 atomic bombs and crushed even dope Kido spells, being killed only by his own power. That said, he played arrogant and slowly, wasted time with Omaeda too, not all good. Starrk problems were two, he was a good guy, very emotional, not willing of fight, and he ended against some top tier captains. That said, he fought 4 captains, some times in 2vs1, acting not seriously, this was crazy, but the other side of the coin, none of them used bankai against him. Then Ukitake took down that way, Shunsui too, the Vizards used as jobbers as usual, and Kyoraku ended it quickly by cheats and emotional strike. So, they weren't weak, they were impressive, but yeah, a lack of impact in the performance was there. Someone needed to be "sacrificed" to hype them up, or at least have the shinigami struggle more. I still think too that, for the levels of that arc, if the matchups were different, even for the rest of the Espadas, it would have ended in a worse war for the Gotei (tough still winning).

[@Blackmustache870]

It was moreso the impact of the top 3 espadas moves that didn't leave as much of an impression as espadas 6-4. Even disregarding starrk nor trying, all of hallibels moves never looked that strong aside from the AMOUNT of water she could create. Yes she could control the temp of that water, but the impact just wasn't there seeing as how many times toshiro tanked it. Even the exacta guy shuhei fought with high pressure water seemed more impressive than that.

[@Blackmustache870]

Kubo not having anyone from the gotei lose was also a problem

[@jasonau6866]

Barragan didn't disappoint. He lost only via hax. If he wasn't against someone with OP Kido his respira abilities could've beat a good majority of captain's.

[@marionarda2790]

You actually had the answer at the beginning : a weak character like rukia was able to defeat an espada . So it was easy for captains to fight them .

[@matthasch847]

To be fair, Aaroniero was only a Gillian so he is very weak. Rukia only won by a fluke because he was too arrogant.

[@Prushinthespirit]

Rukia winning against Aaroniero is the same thing as if he gave her a gun right after defeating her, then dropped his own weapon, put the gun right in her hand, told her to hold it tightly, then shower her a weak point on his head, then leaned said weak point against the muzzle of a gun and commanded to shoot him. Rukia herself didn't do much. The same can be said about other fights she "won". Be it infected Kaien who threw himself at her sword or As Nodt who just ran towards her despite just witnessing what her true shikai can do.

[@RGA301092]

Aaroniero lost to Rukia in the same way that Tosen lost to Hisagi. Aaroniero and Tosen didn't lose cos they were weaker than Rukia and Hisagi, but rather because they got stabbed in the head (a vital spot) when their guard was down. Let's not get it twisted. Aaroniero would whoop Rukia all day every day. He didn't have to use Resurreccion. He had no reason to use it.

[@juvetb1]

This is also exactly what happened to Tousen. In just masked form he was owning Hisagi and Komamura. Then for no reason whatsoever, he decides to resurrect and succumbs to a simple backstab. In earlier fights with the Espadas, we see major characters Ichigo, Ishida, Chad, Renji, and Rukia almost dying. then against the big 3, everyone is more or less fine. At no point was there any build-up to one of the Shinigami dying, and the tempo was incredibly slow and repetitive. It felt like the author just wanted to get to each of the Espadas and Tousen resurrecting to show off a different form, and then quickly killing them off so we can get on to Aizen. it felt like the author needed everyone to be alive and well so that Aizen can kick more ass. The supposed comic relief of Omaeda getting chased by Barragan had been repeated in Omaeda's earlier fight with the Fraccion. Yammy suffered a similarly underwhelming fate. He was just big and talked a lot. That's it. It was such a disappointment to see how they were cast aside after building them up. It's somewhat reflective of Bleach - some big hits and some low points.

[@zurakuraworks]

I think the problem with the top 3 Espada fights (heck, even the Yammy fight) boils down to 2 things: 1. Mr. Kubo (as much as I hate using this term) ‘wrote himself into a corner’ the moment he decided to finish the Ulquiorra fight before any of the top 3 Espada even released their Resurreccion, thus setting the bar for an Espada fight too high to top (I mean really, what can the top 3 Espadas do to possibly top a Segunda Etapa transformation?). As such, I feel like the top 3 Espadas’ fight ended up feeling like an afterthought. The only one among the top 3 Espadas who I think got any care & attention at all was the Stark fight, you can feel that Mr. Kubo wanted to do so many stuff with him, but was most likely unable to do so to the fullest due to his condition at the time, which bring me to my next point; 2. Correct me if I’m wrong but from what I heard, Mr. Kubo during the top 3 Espada fights portion of the Arrancar Saga was suffering from serious illness in the same way he did near the end of TYBW arc, which could (kinda) explain some of the last-minute writing choices he made nearing the end of Arrancar Saga

[@dangeloenglish4284]

Idk I think the insane grim reaper dying by his own hand makes sense. He is definitely the strongest Espada, but his own personality keeps himself from being number 1. I do think some people could have died fighting him. Maybe a sacrifice situation, but I think overall his fight was good. The other 2 were simply disappointing.

[@blackfox4138]

I feel like had Kubo made the Fake Karakura Town arc more of an all out battle rather than a 1v1 glorified tournament arc, the Top 3 Espada would've had more to do. You could've had a great time with Toshiro and the Vice Captains all fighting Harribel, Genryuusai battling Barragan as a King vs King fight. And you could've had Starrk be the last one standing and fight the entire Gotei 13 at once. All while you had the Fraccion coming in and out of fights with Captains and Vice Captains.

[@chrisgodfrey1880]

Personally i feel this is also a sign of the entire Fake Karakura town arc having issues with scope. TYBW was a major war, with fodder soldiers on both sides, mass armies doing battle, lots of bloodshed being the end result. With the Fake Karakura town arc, it's extremely constrained due to just being captains and vice captains versus about a dozen Arrancar. The entire situation was unable to reach that scope to reallt feel the weight of the powers of the Espada. However, it was also poorly handled in terms of the combat of these 3 itself, for all the reasons you mentioned in the video. They were so short in terms of chapter length, not given room to breath and evolve as fights, and with Haribel specifically also very confusing on how her powers seemed nerfed after releasing her true power. There is also the factor that at this point in the story, Kubo seemed too hesitant to kill off characters. If some of the Gotei 13 or Vizards were to have died in the conflict, it would have helped add much more gravity and weight to the threat the Espada posed. Since we never got that, it makes them feel like they were not nearly as powerful as they should have been. Imagine if the battle was like TYBW in the Seireitei and seeing the destruction capable of these three. Countless shinigami rotted away in the miasma spread by Barragan, flooded sections of the city with drowned shinigami as Haribel drenched them all in a torrent of water, wolves tearing through others and blowing up mass droves of the good guys while Stark watches on from a safe distance. It would have been a sight to behold and truly made for a feeling of danger and threat that these Espada could pose. Plus at least one or two vice captains pr captains actually being killed by one of the Espada to really drive home the point

[@michaelmerchant9870]

The problem is 2-fold. The hype around the Espada, and the structure of the Fake Katakura Town arc. Like you said it's high expectations, and Ulquiorra has a big role in that. -Telling Ichigo is pointless to fight since there are 3 Espada ranked above him, let alone Aizen -Ulquiorra's fight on the dome being amazing But then there's also -Characters going on and on on what an honor it is to be an Espada -The Privaron Espada trying to please Aizen to retake their ranks -Many Espada asking their opponents what is it like to see an Espada 's release state.(Aaroniero, Nnoitra) -Many Arrancar lamenting how their abilities weren't enough for Aizen to consider them Espada(Rudornn) -Grimmjow the 6th Espada destroying Bankai Ichigo with little effort with his bare hands -Aizen and Toshiro hyping up regular Vasto Lorde Hollow without Hogyoku power ups being capable of destroying the entire Gotei 13 if Aizen had 10 of them. -Even small things like Ichigo initially refusing to use his Bankai on someone who quote "wasn't _even_ an Espada."(Dordoni) -Or Renji immediately using his Bankai on Szayelaporro after finding out he's an Espada. -And Aizen even stating that The top 3 Espada and their subordinates should be enough to solo the Gotei forces that were present at Fake Katakura Kubo just put so much buildup on them, which they actually could have lived up too, but then there is the second meta problem, the fake Katakura Town arc. I honestly don't know what Kubo's plan was, but this Arc feels more of a showcase of Gotei officers that barely anyone cares about rather than an actual war. Kubo spent way too much time showing us lieutenant abilities. I'm not saying don't show them, but they did not deserve that much panel time especially when the vast majority of them are going to amount to next to nothing. (Hisagi should be a special exception to this since his relationship to Tosen is important, but even ultimately got forgotten in the final arc). When Kubo FINALLY gets to the top 3 Espada fights, it feels like he's stalling. For what I don't know. This is partly why Haribel starts going even with Toshiro, and why Starrk won't just finish up with Love and Rose until after Barragan is dead. But once Barragan dies you can tell Kubo just rushed Starks fight, and pretty much killed Haribel off with no fanfare. My guess GUESS is that Kubo needed increased reader engagement IN THAT MOMENT, and the top 3 Espada despite all the hype around them weren't going to give him that effect. So they and all of their hype were sacrificed for one of if not the best Aizen moment(s) in the series. And while solo stomping and Kyoka trolling the Gotei was great, it should not have come at the cost of the top 3 Espada's reputation. Kubo spent too much time on things that didn't matter, so when it came time to focus on the hype he made, he threw it away for something else.

[@maciekwucow3989]

There was lot focus on low ranked Arrancars that left very little room for top 3 Espadas. Fracioness, Priveron Espadas and Espadas like Grimmjow, Ulquiorra, Szayel and Nnoitra took so much panel time in Saga. The top 3 felt like loose ends at this point.

[@mugen012]

This is why I stopped watching bleach, the power levels just change when it's needed. This is true, especially with ichigo. He gets almost killed, wakes up, and now can win

[@Garvant_]

26:30 thats the problem with bleach in general, unless explicitly stated, assume no one is giving it their all

[@fewglow5076]

That's literally every anime

[@golondrina94]

Easy. Top 3 Espadas were in FKT in the human world. Place where they can hardly breathe because of the little reishi. said by Yammy While Ulquiorra showed the full potential of a Hollow in Hueco Mundo.

[@atwalatwal3778]

I think the main reason top 3 espada were dissappinting because in case of top sternritter ( cant pronounce their name ) they just wanted to kill shingamis . But in espada case halliebel wanted people to trust and barragan wanted his throne back and starkk wanted some friends . Top sternritters were fighting to kill while espada were fighting for their own reason.

[@cmdoc8789]

Thanks!

[@MrTommo2304]

Thank you for the support!

[@km2460]

With how Kubo wrote the arrancar arc and FKT arc the top 3 espada were always going to be disappointing. It’s clear that Kubo wanted the main fight and most successful arrancar to be for ichigo while the others were for the rest of the Gotei. I understand the vision but perhaps it could have been done a bit better to make things feel more satisfying!

[@SmoothBlk]

This may be why Ichigo hardly fights in the Final arc outside of it being rushed

[@spiderdude2099]

I have to like the Baragan fight because it gave Hachi a sick W. I love the round pink man.

[@animefan77]

5:18- Harribel’s abilities is while lacking the raw power of Ulquorra, is more advanced as it resembles the elemental powers of Zanpakuto than anything close to a Hollow.

[@MichaelSmith-lo9hl]

Another absolute banger from the best KZbinr in the bleach fanbase

[@dylanfitzpatrick9423]

Soifon never should have gotten her arm back.

[@nobilisvaga5267]

Honestly the top 3 Espada don't hit as hard as they could because ulquiora overshadowed them with his 2nd stage resurection. I believe that what they should have revealed is that the top 3 Espada unlike the other 7 were picked because they also processed a 2nd stage resurrection form. I also believe that the top 3 should have been the only Espada brought to the fake town and the others should have attacked the soul society directly. This would have brought more threat to the smaller scale fights and would allowed the top 3 to cut loose.

[@Isiel42]

I'm reminded of those moments in an RPG where a really epic villain has a mediocre final encounter. Similar to Seymour Omnis from Final Fantasy X if anyone's played that. He's a great character, but his final battle didn't nearly live up the the implications set up for him.

[@procow2274]

You could say that if the visoreds ( or yamamoto ) hadn't stepped un the top 3 espada probably would have won or at least killed a lot of them

[@animefan77]

As for Barragan- his full transformation where aside from Starrk, contrasts every Arrancar that gets a cosmetic change, a weird creature form, a brutish beast form, or a streamlined human version of their animal form; Barragan is essentially a humanoid skeleton and his powers feel more like the esoteric Quincy powers than a Hollow.

[@EggDevilKing94]

The Espada lacked the kind of destructive power you'd expect from those that weren't allowed to release their zanpakutou in Las Noches Fake Karakura town should've been turned into a wasteland but the 4 pillars plotline prevented that and instead had them shooting giant attacks that hit nothing but air.

[@theblaksmyth88]

I believe Barragan was truly the most dangerous Espada. He could've beat all the other Espada imo. Maybe even my favorite Ulquiorra

[@CrazyFoo501]

while Kubo could have given them more of a showing I wouldn't call them a disappointment either Starrk bested two former Captains at the same time, Shunsui was senoir Captain at the time and became Captain Commander. Maybe everyone wouldn't agree with but his power eclipses the likes Byakuya, Hitsugaya, Kenpachi, and pre-dangai Ichigo (save the Vasto Lorde form) in the Arrancar/Fake Kakakura Arc. Even though the Aizen he stabbed was probably an illusion the implication was Shunsui's reiatsu level was still high enough to harm Aizen where Soi-Fon was powerless. Barragan was broken to the point where Kubo wrote himself into corner and had to have Barragan's own power turned against him rather than being overpowered by the combination of Haci and Soi-Fon. Harribel had the weakest showing, maybe we'll see something more from her in the TYBW Anime or possible Hell Arc. Her and Hitsugaya's powers stalemated each other and Harribel had to end up being rescued, not great. But she was fighting on even ground with one of the stronger Captains flanked by two Vizard (former lieutenants) who were both probably near Captain level in the FKT Arc. Hitsugaya theorized that Aizen had 10 Vasto Lorde Arrancar the Soul Society would be doomed. They had 4 including Ulquiorra and still would have won if the Viazrds didn't show up.

[@NimboJimbo]

I still blame the Ulquiorra scene, to a degree. I know people say we overhyped the top 3 ourselves but you can't have such an iconic scene where someone like Ulquiorra states yeah btw there are 3 MFers stronger than me while treating the MC like a piece of trash beneath his feet. Like that scene was 100% there to build a ton of hype for the top 3 and they just couldn't deliver. If the top 3 were afforded the same effort and time as Ulquiorra they would have all been heavy bangers but I can also understand why not considering time restrictions (assuming) and so much happening in the arc and tbh? That does make me wish there weren't any fraccion there at all besides Starrk's for obvious reasons. I'd gladly trade all the fraccion fights for more fleshed out, more tense, and more energetic fights with the Espada themselves. Especially for Starrk... I always point out how my man fought 4 captains in a row without barely being scratched and two of which were boosted by hollow powers and one was well, Shunsui. I always found that pretty impressive and a true glimpse into what he can really do in terms of how tanky he can be and how much stamina he has. Not to mention how smart he is with how well he can read his opponents and notice tiny details. If Starrk got the same level of treatment as Ulquiorra or even half tbh that would have been one of my favorite fights ever. But I think overall the main issue is having the good guys of the story just not face any real threat of death or loss which is a huge issue imo with the whole arrancar arc and why the arrancar overall can't ever truly feel like a threat cuz we know nothing bad will happen to the good guys vs. later with the Quincy when there was a legit and genuine fear the good guys might actually get killed by the Sternritter. That hesitation to have something bad happen to the good guys is always clear as day to see and always the best way to kill any tension and therefore make the fights boring. I'm pretty much rambling tbh but I just wanted to get my messy thoughts out there cuz the top 3 Espada really interested me and seeing them be such a letdown was genuinely, well, a letdown and I still to this day wish they got better treatment and more of a show like Ulquiorra did. Hell, even Nnoitra had a better fight.