Were We All Wrong About the Harley Pan America?

[@grayghost1423]

Speaking for me, I bought a PA to give me the flexibility to ride where I want to go. I picked it over the BMW cause the ARH. I tip toed the BMW and the KTM. And it's fast and comfortable, finally a HD that has a real suspension. In the mountains, the Beartooth Highway, Chief Joseph, North Cascades, through Yellowstone, even I-90, it is a joy to ride and has more range than me.

[@GreatEgret]

That ARH is a game-changer in the adv world. It’s only a matter of time before other brand develop similar tech.

[@travelinben1966]

Hold onto your hat and your wallet when all that tech starts to fail.😳

[@life_behind_bars]

I really think the Pan America has done more than introduce Harley's into the ADV world. It has shown the Harley purists that the company can break into other markets and it won't take anything away from the classic cruisers and baggers Harley is know for. It also shows the Harley haters that the company is more than capable of producing a modern motorcycle that can compete with the other manufacturers. I'm a Harley guy and always have been, and it makes me very happy to see the company trying something new and expanding their market. I want them to succeed and be around for another 120 years.

[@GreatEgret]

Man, I couldn’t agree more with more with all of this.

[@wikeywikeywhick3852]

i like the pan american, glad its not to lite because i will be using it more as a sport touring bike.love how it looks as well

[@GreatEgret]

Yeah, that’s exactly what I’ll be using it for as well.

[@peterrobert3223]

That's exactly why I bought mine- just did 3000KM's no problems!

[@bbgdaddy5198]

just my .02, I've had several Harleys over the years and currently own a Road king, Electra Glide and a softail custom. I love those bikes for what they do. That said, I'm really impressed with what I've seen with the Pan America and seriously plan to get one in the future. The attraction to me is that it gives me what I'm used to with a Harley but opens up a ton of new riding avenues. I hated the Revolution engine an a V-Rod I had but I think I would love it on an adventure bike.

[@BGPD70]

I know these comments are old. As a owner of a 22 PanAm special, yes it's had it's electrical issues and HD is slowly fixing them (you definitely need the latest ECM update that fixes the low voltage codes). I have chatted with owners from other countries, and my reason for choosing PanAm didn't necessarily apply to them. In the USA the service networks is twice that and even more than other dealers. This motorcycle now that it's cranking without codes, it does my adventure and begs for more, it does my touring light or heavy with beast mode patiently waiting.

[@GreatEgret]

I'm going to make an appointment with my dealership to get the new update. Those electrical issues worry me. As you said, HD is fixing the issues. It's still a new bike, things can get better from here.

[@woadshaman]

Steve Jobs: "It's really hard to design products by focus groups. A lot of times, people don't know what they want until you show it to them." "Some people say give the customers what they want, but that's not my approach. Our job is to figure out what they're going to want before they do.”

[@GreatEgret]

Dang! I never thought of it this way. Good insight.

[@donhenderson5100]

Even though I own a 2006 KLR650, I like the PA. I believe it opens up to a group of different riders. They seem to be very versatile. Like the big GS, commute, tour and fire road. Tactical off road could be touchy. Same with the big GS too. I do agree the mid size market is booming and very exciting! So many great bikes out there. I hope there is multiple 975 models coming.

[@GreatEgret]

I’m looking for a bike that would be great for more technical stuff. Like the TAT and the Trans Wisconsin Adventure Trail. How is the KLR off-road? Still too heavy for some really technical stuff? Feel free to email me if you want.

[@GreatEgret]

Also, I’m looking at a 2010 KLR650 $3400 and 10K miles.

[@donhenderson5100]

@@GreatEgret KLR is 400 pounds. But aftermarket is huge. Pro Cycle is a good start for accessories. I recommend the 'thermo bob' kit to help hold temperatures evenly. Also, there is a thing called a 'doohickey' that has an updated part. Both avaliable from Pro Cycle. I love my KLR, but also review the Suzuki DR650 too. It is a great bike too.

[@kenh9097]

I've owned Sportsters, Road king, currently own a 18 Road-Glide Ultra, 98 Wide-glide.., recently purchased a PA, after numerous test rides, I was impressed, love the dual sport bikes, own a KLR 600 too., PA is very much like a Swiss Army knife., Really dig it!!

[@rhd26]

Can’t wait for more news on the pan America 975! Hoping it comes out before spring

[@GreatEgret]

I really hope H-D doesn’t cancel it!

[@IronBornRider]

Great video GE! I'm cautiously hopeful about Harleys future (although 2023 has been a big let down). The Pan America was a really big move for Harley and I'm glad it's working out for them.

[@GreatEgret]

Thanks, man! I hope it works out for them too. 2023 is a disappointment for them so far. It seems there are far fewer offerings and the ones that they do have a too similar.

[@brianboynton5193]

Love my 2021 since early August 2021. Usual software issues but I have two artificial hips,57 years old and can do a day straight on it. Checks off all boxes and... screams in the 130's mph so I here. Ive never dumped it above a mile per . Lol..

[@GreatEgret]

One complaint I’ll never have about the Pan Am is comfort. I bought an expensive Corbin seat for it and decided it really wasn’t worth it, so I sold it and never looked back.

[@m.f.m.67]

Heavy is relative. Compared to a Road Glide, the PanAm is a feather weight! "Off-Road" is relative. Very few of the big ADV bikes go off road much beyond dirt fire roads. They are not intended for single-track trail riding. Lots of big, heavy Harley Touring bikes have been ridden to Alaska and on all the dirt roads that can involve. But trips of that nature would be much easier on a bike like the Pan America. At least if you drop it, you've got a chance you can pick it back up!

[@paulwojnar2291]

I am one of those who traded my traditional Harley in to obtain a 2022 PAS. I use it as a sport tourer primarily. For offroad I have a 2003 KLR. Having previously owned sport tourers from other manufacturers this type of riding/touring is very familiar to me. In that light the PA shines. I will have a big twin Harley again but it will be something used for cash for purely casual day rides. Yes there are some oddities akin to the PA. I accept and adapt to them so they are no big deal. The Beemers and Ducatis and Guzzis That I rode in the 80s and 90s had their oddities as well. I consider them the individual personality of these bikes. Love your channel and your delivery of very usefull, detailed and nonbiased information. Keep up the great work.

[@grayghost1423]

I like how HD went their own way, without the beak. And it is a good looking bike. And BMW riders are stinging cause the PA is faster.

[@GreatEgret]

When I first saw photos of the PA in 2018, I was thinking how ugly the bike was. After seeing it in person and test riding it, I realized that I only thought that it was ugly because it didn’t fit with my expectations of what an adventure bike should look like. Now I love the looks. It’s very American-looking like a Jeep. It’s a HUGE bonus that it’s ridiculously fast!

[@cheknecht3092]

I like the Road Glide like fairing on the PA. Yeah, I'm not a big fan of the ADV beak look.

[@timahrndt2496]

I have described my Pan Am to cruiser riders as the SUV of motorcycles. Can carry all of my camping gear, ride it across the country on Interstates to forest roads, drop my cases at a campsite and hit the twisties. The Pan Ams are truly Sports Utility Vehicles. Have had mine since May of '21, just turned over 15k miles and only issue was a kickstand sensor.

[@Glitched-PanAmerica]

Love mine! 1-months,2,500 miles with 2,500 smiles! It’s something everything else isn’t!

[@GreatEgret]

That’s a lot of smiles!

[@jasonshortphd]

I do like what Harley has done. I think the new users coming to the ADV world is HUGE, I have met a new group of riders as as result. But I still own my Tiger 900 for ADV riding. It’s smaller and lighter, and more stable tech wise (decades of experience). I was seriously hoping they would release a 975 version, I might have considered it. But the current bike is just too heavy (for me) off-road. I even wish my Tiger 900 was lighter. After you pick it up for the 7th time during a single day you REALLY want a lighter bike. Ha ha.

[@GreatEgret]

No doubt lighter and more stable tech-wise. I’m thinking of picking up a smaller dual sport bike for more off-road fun. The skill I’ve learned picking up these heavy bike is greater than the skills I’ve gained riding off-road.

[@jasonshortphd]

@@GreatEgret agree on a smaller dual sport for having more fun locally. I have considered the same.

[@paulclontz6560]

I bought my PAS in May of 21. I love my bike. I dealt with a year and a half of codes throwing constantly. I would just delete them and carry on. My HD dealer decided to fail my battery and since the day that they changed my battery I have not had a code. It starts perfectly. It never throw codes. It does everything right now. Why would HD wait so long to do something about the battery issues? It caused all the communication issues we have with our bikes. I am very pleased with my bike now. I hope to keep it for a lot longer now that it is running without codes.

[@cheknecht3092]

I just saw Fast and Furious X and I noticed Jason Momoa riding a PA. This looks like a fun bike and I've been wanting a "riding" bike. I'll get one to complement my Road Glide.

[@sickunit2096]

Middleweight adv bikes have come and gone before back in the late 80s. They just didn’t know what the hell to call them. They’re cool and all but not the end all be all. Ive owned quite a few BMW adv bikes among other British and Italian ADV offerings in the past and now own a 2022 PAS. Im not looking back. Im thrilled to have a good ADV bike built in the US, as well.

[@GreatEgret]

100% agree that it’s nice to have an ADV bike built in the USA!

[@FranBunnyFFXII]

WOW, so Whit Meza is a female motorcyclist on youtube, and does adventure riding and stuff, and I watch tons of harley riders, 3 kinds of people I am absolutely loving watching right now while im recovering from surgery and cant ride my bike, and youtube content I've been watching for years. I mean I've been watching Itchy Boots! And yet SOME HOW youtube still hasn't recommended miss Whit Meza to me yet? Shame youtube. Thanks for pointing her out Joe. Imma check out her channel.

[@GreatEgret]

She’s also a Wisconsinite like me. She used to work at the dealership I bought my first bike from. I hope recovery from surgery goes well for you.

[@maniacalgorilla]

I love my "Dirt glide" 22 PAS

[@cheknecht3092]

That's a good name for. I just might have to borrow that name when I get mine.

[@maniacalgorilla]

@@cheknecht3092 you can actually order Dirt Glide decals now!

[@warrenlovell3919]

We have checked out different ADV and went with PAS…in fact we bought 2. One of the main concerns was dealer network across the states. It is just well supported. We live on a dirt road, but still have our RGS’s and Electraglide

[@GreatEgret]

Dealer network is a great reason for choosing a bike and H-D and Honda have the best here. Congrats on the new bikes!

[@coreyyancey9272]

Love my 22 PA!!

[@Sugah_J]

I have a PanAm, it’s my first Harley. I absolutely love this bike. Sure it’s a heavy bike, but it holds its weight well even on the dirt. It’s comfortable on the road and it’s confidence inspiring on the dirt. Is it a single track bike? No. As long as you have realistic expectations when you hop on this thing you’ll have a blast. I have, however, taken it on a single track … it sucked but mainly because MY riding skills weren’t good enough for it. The bike took everything I gave it.

[@GreatEgret]

I’m in the same boat as you. I need to have realistic expectations when I ride my PA

[@johnmyers8588]

My first ADV bike and I'm enjoying the hell out of it!

[@GreatEgret]

That’s a hell of a great first ADV bike! Congrats, man!

[@lancekitchener1970]

I have 2021 pan american special this bike is awesome I have outfitted for my hight great bike to ride. Gatineau Quebec

[@GreatEgret]

I'm going to put this bike through its paces on a long trip in April. I hope to fall in love with it. Your weather is likely similar to mine. We're almost to spring and more riding!

[@markh.harris9271]

I traded my SportsterS (2021) for the new 2023 PA Special; the PA is the best bike Harley-Davidson has ever produced. Suspension, ARH, superior intuitive tech, handling, power, speed, an aboslute joy to ride. Yes, you were all wrong about the PA. Harley listened to its customer base; the quirks of the PA 21 and 22 have been corrected in the 23... radiator hose moved forward, stiffer wind-screen, fan deflector added, and the firmware updates have ended the 1250 whine and the bogus startup codes due to the AGM battery. I looked at the KTM 1290, the 1250 GSA, and the Tiger 1200; all fall short in my opinion... Harley-Davidson has hit it out of the park with the 2023 Pan America Special. Don't get me wrong... I still love my 2003 Heritage Springer Softail, 88B air-cooled antique. But, my go-to bike today is my 2023 PA Special... can't beat it. marcus

[@rangerman375]

I am looking at actually changing over from my 2017 Honda Africa Twin to a Pan America. It weighs about the same, it has a bunch more power, more weight capacity, looks better (imho, ymmv) and everywhere I have gone with my AT I could have gone... more comfortably, on a PA.

[@GreatEgret]

Making this switch really depends on what you want out of a bike. The PA is an upgrade from your 2017 Africa Twin in a lot of ways, but it is a very different bike than the AT. If you are never going to go off-road and are an adventure tourer rider, than the the PA is the perfect bike.

[@TacticalHamsterDance]

Interesting take about cruiser riders and adventure riders being distinct. What I heard was an opposite - that more and more people were getting a cruiser and an adv. bike, mostly cruiser riders who were looking to get an old age bike and decided this was a better alternative for touring cruisers which used to be the default option. Sure, some of them decided the style didn't fit them, some wanted to stay true to their brand (which didn't produce adv. bikes), but it was a market HD wanted - and managed to tap. However, it's quite interesting to learn what people used to say before Pan Am came to market. I think there was quite a few misconceptions but some people got it right too. Thank you for the video!

[@GreatEgret]

It’s super interesting and I’m excited to see how all this evolves. Thanks for watching!

[@ChavsADV]

Something not mentioned here is it has had a huge list of issues. Some have no issues but a lot have major issues. I have waited for the new models to give them a chance to fix it but even the 2023s have plenty of issues.

[@GreatEgret]

Agreed. The issues the PAs have is one of the reasons I sold mine.

[@fivespeed3026]

The stator failed on my 2022 PA and now it has been in the shop for a month and a day. No word on when I will get it back.

[@GreatEgret]

Man, that sucks! I hope you get it back soon.

[@billdaggett7911]

Yeah they were wrong. The Pan America is an amazing bike. Power, handling, suspension. They got it right. I love mine. Not a single problem . Flawless...and fun! I'm all grins on this ride

[@GreatEgret]

I just got the new software update and have had zero issues since. Now winter is back here in Wisconsin. I can’t wait to get back in this bike!

[@Malcivious]

Funny story for me... I had finally got an adventure bike, the BMW GS 1250, a few months before a lot of details, and especially reviews of the Pan America became available. I thought, it was going to be heavy, expensive, with a weak, but torquey engine. Once people started praising it, and that it weighed less than a GS and was cheaper... I was pretty blown away. However, the biggest draw for me is they amount of Harley Davidson dealers compared to BMW dealers. I had the worst time trying to get my GS serviced at the local shop. It was ridiculous, no matter what time I tried calling, no one answered the service phone and the voicemail box was full. What a joke! Considering it's the only BMW motorcycle shop in the region, I had little options. I ended up going to a local independent motorcycle shop for my servicing. Even that became a poor experience, in general, and they didn't have the tools to reset the maintenance reminder on the MFD. However, I have owned two Harley's prior to the GS (in my search for the best bike for me) and the service department went above and beyond for me several times. It's rare that I have a bad experience with Harley service, and they're always eager to make things right if something goes wrong. Again, above and beyond! What's even better, is even if the service department in one shop became poor, there's 3 other HD dealers (at least) in the region I can choose from. So yeah... BMW gets a big fail in the sales and service network. Doesn't matter how good BMW makes the bikes when that happens.

[@GreatEgret]

There’s no denying how extensive the network is and how easy it is typically to get a bike fixed relatively quickly.

[@billwilliamson9842]

its a great handlin, powerful bike that works, so of course Harleys core segment will hate it lol kinda like they did to the XR1200's. The core segment seem to want the over chromed lazy boy recliner on wheels. My only gripe with the new sportys and variants is the sound, they just don't have "it" imo, haven't heard a system yet that makes em sound good, but 150 hp can make up for that to a lot of folks, just not my old butt. I'm buyin a clean heavily performance modified xr1200 this week, should let me keep up with a stock sportser s but a 150 hp version will flat spank me like they owned me I'm sure and you just know that street brawler version will eventually come to be.

[@josecastro-nc4ep]

Between the electronic failure, the problem with the radiator hose and the horrible position for the air filter and the battery, I think Pan America needs another 5 or 6 years postproduction development to even come close with the GS or the Tiger 1200. I try for 100 miles and almost burn myself with all the heat coming from the engine room. Not worth it.. yet... Still waiting for the new ADV bike from Buell for next year.

[@GreatEgret]

I don’t disagree with any of this. Things are improving, though, but at a snails pace and I worry Harley will be left behind.

[@josecastro-nc4ep]

@@GreatEgret I try one one week ago. Warning lights flashing every two minutes. The owner took that bike at least one a month for another upgrade. Yes, it's improving but... I feel HD is using all PA owners as rat in a mace, getting cheap direct experience. I'm not feel the bike is finished in all sense and get one now it's a lottery. Could be a good one, could be a rotten lemon. The bike it's atractive but at least me will hold to see on a couple years or until the new Buell comes on 2025.

[@GreatEgret]

You’re not wrong about that either. It does feel like an unfinished bike. I’m traveling long distance soon and I don’t have confidence in the reliability.

[@ridewithted2003]

I had a chance to ride the Pan America, sadly it was in somewhat of an urban/suburban environment that included a high traffic highway and local high traffic shitty roads. Despite that, I was impressed with the bike but there were some things that I couldn't get used to, primarily, the hand controls. I could not believe how much they crammed on the bars by the hand grips. Maybe it's that I'm not used to all those bells and whistles. But I must have beeped the horn 20 times just trying to put on the turn signals and the only time I could navigate through the display is if I was standing still in a parking lot because the thumb reach was a tad to far. But that's trivial stuff. Other than that, I loved the bike. The adaptive suspension, the engine was killer, it was super comfortable and handled quite well. I'd like to ride it again, but this time in a more rural setting and maybe on some dirt roads..... away from people, traffic and railroad crossings.

[@GreatEgret]

I think the horn placement on the PA is one of the worst in all of motorcycling. After 2000 miles, I still beep it while putting on the turn signal.

[@stevejones3180]

I LOVE my GS 1250. I’m going to trade it in for the 2023 pan am after test riding it. More fun to ride, and different to almost every other adventure bike rider in UK. They will make fun of me as they do of all Harley riders. Who cares, dare to be different. If it turns out to be unreliable they will have the last laugh and I’ll have regrets. If it doesn’t I’ll have made the right decision.

[@adventuretoshare]

I traded my Ultra Limited in for a 2021 PAS and got a great deal. Prior to this I'd been looking at Ducati and KTM, but neither could buy me out and give good as a deal. I haven't yet got on the dirt with my PAS, I need some training before that happens and I have the cast rims for now. So what do I think of my PAS? despite just having to get a new engine under warranty, this is an awesome ride, I have no regrets and I'd encourage everyone to go try one 'just because'! It really has it all, performance, ability, comfort (ok so it's difficult to beat the Ultra Limited on long distance comfort), basically all the hype from H-D is as close to reality as marketing can get. I think H-D showed the world that they can meet market demands and do it in style.

[@GreatEgret]

Glad your engine was covered under warranty. So right about the PA haviiit all. So versatile.

[@indy500tabasco8]

good bike

[@Eds_PanAm]

good video, I ended up trading in a lowrider s on a pan am, i'm vertically challenged but still feel very comfortaable on the bike, got a couple of classes for learning to ride it coming up, yep its heavy, i'm not planning on taking it on any of the red routes on a BDR lol i think those are the hardest, i just like this style of bike, if i find out i really love offroading, i'll add a T7 to the stable and use the PA for a tourer...sláinte! PS - sure is easy for someone to delete comments instead of just admitting some one else was right and they were wrong...LOL wussies....

[@m.f.m.67]

Say what you want about the looks of the Pan America, but when you see one coming up behind you, you know exactly what it is. There's no mistaking that headlight in your rear view mirror.

[@GreatEgret]

No doubt about that. It’s like the Jeep of the motorcycling world.

[@woadshaman]

Great video, man.

[@GreatEgret]

Thanks, bro!

[@theladwiththebeard]

I'm interested in getting an adventure bike. Weight is weight, they are all the same in that class. They are heavy. My main issue is my height. I've tried all the ones that are around the PA price. ARH on the PA is probably the main reason I'm looking at getting one. Other bikes need lower seats or adjustments to the suspension. HD really got it right with the ARH, opens up the bike to us shorty folks.

[@GreatEgret]

The ARH is genius. It truly is. I’m surprised other brands haven’t thought this sooner and I bet others are in development now. The only issue with it it’s not much use and you’ll shut it off if you are riding off-road.

[@theladwiththebeard]

@@GreatEgret I’ll just add big boots and some sole inserts for going off road 🤣

[@GreatEgret]

Ha! There are days I need that too 😂

[@theladwiththebeard]

@@GreatEgret Well, I've got some for the weekends test drive....... lets see how I get on. Great video too, enjoyed it. You got a sub from me.

[@GreatEgret]

Thanks, man. Let me know how the test ride goes.

[@dcxplant]

If the 975 engine weighs the same, or cannot be packaged into a motorcycle significantly lighter than the 1250 models, it will be a failure. IMO, H-D realized they cannot make a motorcycle light enough with the 975 to make a difference so why bother. A sleeved down bore does not equate a lighter weight motorcycle. As to Pan Am's being traded in, every month at my local BMW/Triumph dealer there are Pan Am's traded in for GS's with very low mileage. A great way to get into a Pan Am is to look at EU dealers for traded in models. What I never see, are EU ADV motorcycles taken in trade in H-D shops.

[@GreatEgret]

You’re not wrong about much of this. Especially about trade ins. Except maybe the weight. How light should a middle weight bike be? The T7 is largely considered to be the best middleweight adventure bike. It weighs 450lbs/210kg. The 2022 Nightster has the 975 version of Harley’s Rev Max engine and it’s only about 8lbs/3.5kg heavier in a cruiser package. It wouldn’t be too difficult to get a 975 pan am around the same weight as the T7. There are a ton of issues with the Pan America 1250 and there likely would be with a 975 version. But I’m not sure weight would be one of them if you’re comparing it to the weight of the T7.

[@BL-hj7ht]

Did Harley fail? Absolutely not.

[@RC44E]

I think most casual ADV riders in North America (USA and Canada). Don't do extreme ADV riding. They do asphalt avoiding. Backroads riding with include hills on the roads less traveled. I've said it before. I think to get new riders in HD a 700-965 Cc is the sweet spot. All they are doing is not selling the big bagger upgrade. And selling a ADV bike to a guy/gal. Who likely in a year will move back to their cruiser.

[@GreatEgret]

I’d say I fit in that category of “most casual ADV riders”. I’m thinking of picking up something lighter with less power for some off-road fun.

[@RC44E]

@@GreatEgret If it was in my budget. I'd have my cruiser and something like a Himalayan.

[@davidritacurl797]

🤔 SUV not so much, but SUC (sport utility cycle). Don't think acronym sounds very compelling.

[@GreatEgret]

SUC fits, but yeah, not so catchy 😂

[@MrJruta]

Nice but definitely not my personal cup of tea

[@scootjockey]

Looks don,t really matter when the bloody thing does not work (22 PAS ).

[@GreatEgret]

Too true. Your’s not working?

[@Nifilheimur]

Reason i would never buy it is I live in Europe. The dealer network is nothing compared to Eu brands or Japanese brands so if you have an issue on a road trip well you have to be really lucky to get parts. Other thing is in Norway the stripped down Pan America 1250 costs over 30000 USD and probably closer to 40k fully geared while a Honda Africa Twin costs 22k USD and a BMW 1250GS costs about 25k. Harley are popular here in Norway but further south in Europe they are hardly seen at all. When i say popular they are the 10th most sold brand here with BMW being on top. Harley sold less than 10% of what just BMW did in a year.

[@GreatEgret]

That’s ridiculously expensive. Even the AT, which is a favorite of mine, is expensive at $22k.

[@MyDyerMaker]

I'm not a fan of their new edition bikes. I did like the look of the Bronx but a bike has to be ugly for Harley to make it.

[@GreatEgret]

I’m not a fan of them either. So many riders want the Bronx. It doesn’t make sense for them to delay or cancel it.

[@nataliehunter3097]

The only thing I don’t like is the cheap ass street tires. Cmon. This is an adventure bike. Put the aggressive rubber on it. Don’t cheap out. After all you need a gold stock to buy it. I did buy one. I don’t like these crap tires. Widow makers. Also the flimsy hand protectors and flimsy windshield. Cmon Harley. Step it up.

[@GreatEgret]

That windshield drives me crazy. So flimsy.

[@gatti493]

There are a few things that need to be made clear about the panam , 1 most pictures are taken from the exhaust side , this bike is truly pig ugly from the chain side , definitely should have gone shaft drive ! 2 now I live in a damp climate and originally had an Africa Twin 🌍 on a 2020 plate , 2022 was the new bike at the time, I had just changed my Africa Twin to a BMW 1250GS ADVENTURE RALLYE and came across a PanAm at a Bike meet on a 2021 plate with 4000 miles on it , Omg when I saw this Bike and on talking to its owner, I actually felt sorry for him 😔 He wasn't whining about the Bike but his pain was clearly evident, his bike nut and bolts were seriously rusty especially around the headlight but pretty much all over , I had just part exchanged an Africa Twin, a year older with 500 more miles and 2 owners that was in FAAAR better condition than this PanAm , my Africa Twin was absolutely mint 💯 AVOID this bike , there are far better buys 😉

[@GreatEgret]

Since you own a chain-driven Africa Twin, why do you think the Pan America should be shaft driven? That makes no sense. Final drive, chain, shaft, or belt, is not about looks. It’s about the needs of the rider and there are pros and cons of each.

[@gatti493]

@@GreatEgret Chain, shaft ?? Your missing my point ! Both chain and shaft have their good points , I am not saying one is better than the other , although shaft drive probably is slightly better ! No I am talking about the looks of the PanAm from each side. The Africa Twin and my BMW GS from the exhaust side are gorgeous, more so the Africa Twin and from the chain or sprocket side the Africa Twin is still very good looking 👌 But the PanAm from the sprocket side is awful 😕 How many pictures have you seen of the PanAm from sprocket side 🤔 Not many ! Thats because its truly ugly from that side , NOW ! The point I'm making is if the PanAm had been shaft drive it wouldn't have looked as bad , that shape bike doesn't suit chain and sprocket, it just doesn't look right 🤔

[@GreatEgret]

@gatti493 I’m not missing the point and never suggested you were talking about the pros and cons of final drive. A shaft drive is not about looks and won’t make a bike look better.

[@gatti493]

@@GreatEgret Well I happen to think it would !! For the reason of whatever way they have designed that side of the bike it doesn't suit a chain , maybe we just expect to see a shaft ?? But the MAIN POINT of my comment is the aging of the bike and lack of anti corrosion on its hardware is disgraceful , I would NEVER advise ANYBODY to spend that kind of money on such a poorly made bike 😉👍💯 I own the Top spec BMW GS1250 and my honest advice to any body getting a bike for this purpose is get an Africa Twin DCT Adventure Sport ES and get a better seat , you will not be sorry 😉

[@GreatEgret]

You’re the only one that has the claim that there is rust on the bike. I live in Wisconsin and they salt and brine the roads here. No rust on my bike. Another owner from Pennsylvania told you when you said the same thing that he’s never had an issue with rust. No one on the Pan America forums or any owners on KZbin have ever claimed issues with rust. This bike isn’t perfect and I’ve criticized it where it needs to be, but man, rust ain’t one of them. If you actually owned one and sent me photos of it, I might believe it.