Western Student Misunderstandings of Buddhism: Dzogchen Ponlop Rinpoche

[@davidlist7507]

He was the first teacher to give me the Refuge Vows when we were both young!

[@DharmaTime-is-now]

That’s great. Thanks for sharing!

[@BenTrem42]

Almost the same with me ... but I was in my 40s :-)

[@Daimo83]

Just exploring Buddhism for myself and as he says it's very confusing. There's many different lists of numbers, for example: the three jewels, the four noble truths, eightfold path... the hardest I've found is the 46 secondary downfalls. How are you supposed to remember all the lists? Second problem is the difficulty of names. I struggle to remember Venerable Geshe Kelsang Gyatso Rinpoche, let alone Atisha's three names, or the 8 great bodhisattvas. On the other hand some people say don't study, just meditate, but meditate on what if you don't study? As I understand it the Kadampa school tries to help introduce westerners to Buddhism. I suppose I will work it all out since I agree the end of suffering is the highest good, and that everything else is a delusion.

[@ariqos8736]

On the breath anapanasati is all you need awareness of breath

[@chokysenge]

Don’t do it all by yourself or you’ll probably get lost. Get a good teacher. That will clear many obstacles in understanding buddhism.

[@tsedubgyatso]

You’re in a cult called the new Kadampa. This is not proper Buddhism

[@sugarfree1894]

It doesn't have to be either or, but if you practice simply every day and engage with what appears interesting and meaningful to you from the Teachings (and what seems interesting will change as you continue), it will develop.

[@gameofthrones5655]

In the spirituel realms we truly jump everywhere...we have a very open mind in all dimensions= true. Though Zen is quiet a straight and also grounding way 2 get clear❤

[@BenTrem42]

0:59 _"It's more the philosophy and science of mind than religion"_ is the way he put it to me. *Tashi delek!* --KC: p.s. in my work on #SocialCognition I found a lot of a person's activities having to do with distraction. hobbies and such are a good, pretty benign example. I'm afraid religiosity (liturgies and ceremonies and such) can become habits in much the same way.

[@squamish4244]

I find the concept of enlightenment is commonly misunderstood as well. People think it means escaping or running away from the world, being 'spaced out' all the time. So some people criticize enlightenment as meaning that you will stop caring about social problems. Now, Buddhism has correctly been criticized for its historical lack of social action compared to the Abrahamaic religions, but that has not been true of any school of Buddhism for the last 65 years, since the invasion of Tibet. And becoming enlightened absolutely leads people to social action in cultures where there is already a lot of emphasis on that, and even in ones where there isn't. And also emptiness. It is often misunderstood as 'meaninglessness'. Why would I want to see everything as empty? A better translation, one teacher said, is "infiniteness". Which isn't a real word, but that shows some of the problems with translation. Another is that the First Noble Truth is "Life is suffering". It is actually "There is suffering". People who are content with their lives without a spiritual path - and they indeed exist, especially in the modern day when we've gotten rid of a lot of the nastiness of premodern life - look around themselves and go, "Well, I'm not suffering all that much, life isn't suffering for me, so that's a load of crap!" But they can't deny that "There IS suffering", which is the correct translation. Another is that the goal of Buddhism is to erase earthly desires. Which is absurd. You'll never get hungry again. You'll never find another person attractive again. Yeah right. And of course, how are you even going to get enightened in the first place? By _desiring_ it. Another bad translation. A lot of the early translations were done by people who had no idea about Buddhism or the cultural context, and also, similar concepts are either alien to Western spirituality or confined to what was 100 years ago the little-known mystical side of Western religions, which does have similar concepts. One good example is of The Tibetan Book of the Dead's first and still most widely-known translation, the Evans-Wentz version. It's only of three chapters of the book. Also, it's not 'the Bible' of Tibetan Buddhism or even of the death process. In fact, it wasn't even well-known in Tibet itself, it was an obscure mortuary text among many texts and instructions on the death process. The Nepalese lama who translated the book hadn't even heard of it.

[@jigmetrinchen4873]

Budhism is all about understanding and then realizing oneself in practical way. Its like in the process of waking up from sleep. Everything you are experiencing becomes like yesterday's dream. So powerful antidote for illusion. But we must dare to study and practice and let go off fixation and holding on to self cherishing ego🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉 practice of instructions of guru will become nightmare for you, because it goes against your habitual clway of being and comfort zone, so this nightmare wake you up from dream of conceptual duality. You will be wellcomed😅😅to the reality which is beyond wirds and experience.... 5:18

[@VishantaRayamajhi]

🙏🙏🙏

[@myberney]

let's be friends

[@5piles]

indian buddhism aka nalanda buddhism which became tibetan buddhism relies heavily on the daily study of logic, cognition, complex tenets systems, and hours spent daily engaging in logic syllogistic debate. if we dont maintain this process, then realizations will necessarily become extinct. the only exception would be something miraculous occurring such as mahasiddhas appearing to forcefully subjugate what in our technological environment necessitates extension over the entire planets population.

[@factspoken9062]

tibetan Buddhism have many facet. Some gelugpas prioritise the debating mode but remember not all gelugpas like to do that. Then we have Nyingmapas, Kagyupas, Sakyapas, Jornangpa. OK

[@rp011051]

science of mind seems to be a popular concept but not accurate....there is no common definition of mind in science and science is based on an objective/materialistic only reality

[@DharmaTime-is-now]

I think he means it in the context of conducting one's own empirical investigation to see what you see

[@factspoken9062]

Bulls eye...Rimpoche

[@wiwidity]

Western Student Misunderstandings of Buddhism are before anything else not well adapted approaches, systematization and individual customization of teachings by Tibetan propagators of Buddhadharma. Some western teachers are fixing some off the faults simultaneously, and more Tibetan teachers are getting better picture of how to be more effective and skillful plus taking more time to get in the clinch with the obstacles. Nobody said its easy. there are so many issues, impossible to narrate here. Westerners should get more involved in resolving many issues otherwise many of them will be religious followers and not so well educated or informed-not benefiting as they could or should.

[@BenTrem42]

_Hello!_ Can you tell us when this was recorded? include in Description? TD --KC: p.s. as Rinpoche told me 3 decades ago, so he says here _"The philosophy and science of mind."_ 🙂

[@DharmaTime-is-now]

mid 2000s

[@DharmaTime-is-now]

Thanks for your thoughtful observations!

[@BenTrem42]

​@@DharmaTime-is-nowAh, yes, that makes sense ... around the time I left Hali. cheers! --KC:

[@gavinmercer7652]

"Religion" obviously a European word. I always think of it spiritual tradition + politics = religion. Conservatives love the idea of controlling the spiritual politically. Conversely the far left is often scornful of the whole idea of spirituality. Either way real spirituality ends up degraded and distorted.

[@djoniebie]

there is no this is it or this is not it. there is no one who gets it and runs away with it like a thief in the night. the lotus takes root when the pool is left untouched

[@jaromirvoncb8882]

the question is, do Asian teachers understand the definition of science correctly? From my point of view, I would not use the word science but rather technology. That teacher-student relationship as friends is taught in the Mahayana, so this conversation should be understood more as advice on the Mahayana path? So far I haven't heard a high-level Rinpoche praising a western student as a highly realized person and also conferring him the title of Rinpoche. He could perhaps introduce the guru-disciple method as friends. But so far, after 50 years, nothing like that has happened...

[@5piles]

there are already westerners accomplishing tukdam. and among the handful of experienced leading westerners, ones like alan wallace are meditating 14h a day following dudjom rinpoches lineages and 'prophecy' that 100 'westerners' will accomplish full rainbow body during the critical period of degeneration as things reach the precipice.

[@shreyayonjan4405]

Your “science” is only 300 years compared to the almost 2000 years of Nalanda tradition of Buddhist teachings…

[@13c11a]

If Buddhism is not a religion, then why do we call high monks "Your Holiness?" Sogyal Rinpoche said that Buddhism is without a doubt our religion and he laughed out loud when someone said it wasn't. Both he and other teachers stress the importance of having faith. Incidentally, there is a popular religion in the United States that is called The Science of Mind. I think he statement adds confusion to the subject; it does not clarify anything.

[@DharmaTime-is-now]

The religiosity that people slide into is a huge problem. It has led to a nauseating amount of sexual and financial scandals over the decades, students getting chewed up and spit out along the way. Sogyal Rinpoche probably had something to say about those as well. Leaning towards a scientific approach of cultivating independent examination and experience of whatever is positive.

[@acho5424]

Well “His Holiness” is a title given by the British Empire during Tri party meeting. Tibetans call monks - lama, or Rinpoche. For example for Dalai Lama - Gyalwa Rinpoche. Tibetans didn’t have the title “His Holiness”.

[@13c11a]

Sogyal Rinpoche was one of the abusers who chewed up and spat out students who loved him. I'm just saying that if people like the Karmapa are not religious leaders why do they expect to be treated like holy men? They obviously do expect it. And they obviously are not any holier than anyone else. The Karmapa raped a nun a third his age. When accused, he said it was all untrue. When a Canadian court ordered him to take a DNA test and he was proven to be the father of the child he denied, he changed his tune and said the sex was consensual. First, there was no sex, then the sex was consensual. This man, who was appointed by the Chinese Communist Party, is not a spiritual leader. He is an imposter and a sham. But he is passed off as an "emanation" of Avalokitesvara. How could he be an emanation of the Buddha of Compassion when he denied his own daughter and the woman he impregnated through rape? Whether or not Buddhism is a religion is moot. So are the skills used in teaching Dharma. What matters is why this man has not stepped down to demonstrate that the leaders of Kagyu stand for personal virtue. Because they don't. @@DharmaTime-is-now

[@13c11a]

@@acho5424 I study at a Tibetan monastery and all of the nuns and monks refer to him exclusively as "His Holiness."

[@Tsechen287]

@@13c11a Stop spreading lies. " His Holiness"? Theres no such as His Holiness in Tibetan. We either call him Kundun, Chenrenzig, Gyalwa Tenzin Gyatso, or Gyalwa Rinpoche. Maybe they are saying it for you to understand. But we dont such words in Tibetan although we refer to Dalai Lama ( Kundun ) highly.