What About the Rapture? Evaluating Dispensationalism and the Pre-Tribulation Rapture

The audio returns to normal at 1:30.

[@NorthAvenueChurch]

For the rest of our series on Revelation and eschatology, see here: kzbin.info/aero/PL4nNmjgYbRZ7bCKQsCUZ9mi6SWRzCFRXG

[@peterc2579]

These guys are right on. I've been preaching this for decades. Finally somebody is really reading the scriptures. "AFTER" PERIOD!!!! Many will have a rude awaking when the Great Tribulation starts, they'll think they aren't saved but they will be if they opened their hearts to Jesus.

[@7Logik]

But the tribulation is for the nation of israel....explain how someone who's sealed eith the holy spirit could go through the tribulation while having to work to resist the mark of the beast ... the church is saved by grace through faith ,NOT of works .... that view doesn't make sense .

[@WaimakBibleChapel]

Thank you so much your videos on this topic they have cleared up this issue for us. As a previously pretrib church this has been a difficult transition. But the scripture must come first Truth is Truth😀

[@revelationminister1910]

I believe what is taught in regard to the rapture can be a salvation issue. I feel that pre trib may not be preparing people for the worst case scenario and may cost many their salvation. Blood would be on the hands of many teaching.

[@tylerj3088]

Why would we need to be prepared for the tribulation for our salvation? We are saved by grace through faith in Jesus Christ. Period. If we don’t prepare for the tribulation we will not take the mark of the beast, die and then go to glory.

[@my1vice]

Believing in a secret rapture shows lack of faith in God to see you through to the end.

[@peterc2579]

They won't lose their salvation but they'll have a rude awaking when they are not ruptured so the devil will have quite a time making them feel they aren't saved during the Great Tribulation. What did Jesus say Satan has desired to have you that he might sift you as wheat.

[@williamverdell8856]

Revelation 22:18-19 teaching Revelation, and Bible prophecy is a salvation issue.

[@williamverdell8856]

Revelation 7:9-14 and Revelation 14:14-16 this is Jesus second coming it is not the secret coming of the Lord. This coming happens at the end of the seven year period, and both multitudes are taken out of the earth, and back to heaven so God's wrath can be poured out on the earth. Revelation 16:15 this is the secret coming of Jesus at the end of the wrath of God. There will be people who will go through the wrath, that didn't worship the beast, his image, or receive his mark. Neither did they give their lives to Jesus, they will go through the wrath of God and just before the last trumpet sounds some of the people on the earth will give their lives to Jesus and be saved. They are the ones who are the alive, and remain unto the coming of the Lord. I have 5 videos on KZbin under the title. PT1 the pre wrath rapture and the third coming of Jesus. To find the next video just type in what part your looking for like pt2 pt3 ECT and then type in the rest of the title.

[@johnharrington6122]

The Apostle Paul is THE APOSTLE of the mainly Gentile body of Christ in this dispensational age of the Grace of God , and the thoughts of men’s hearts WILL be judged by Jesus Christ according to his Gospel , he was Pre- Tribulational and Dispensational and we are to follow him AS he follows Christ ! John

[@SpotterVideo]

Who is really teaching “Replacement Theology” ? (Did God fulfill His promises to the Jewish people at Calvary? Matthew 26:28, John 19:30) The advocates of modern Dispensational Theology often accuse others of promoting “Replacement Theology”, or some may even say “Antisemitism”. What does the Bible say about their accusations? 1. Who is replacing Christ as the seed of Abraham through which all the families of the Earth would be blessed in Genesis 12:3, with Abraham’s modern descendants? (See Paul’s interpretation in Galatians 3:8.) 2. Who is replacing the one people of God in John 10:16, with two peoples of God ? 3. Who is replacing the one seed (Christ) in Galatians 3:16, with the many seeds? 4. Who is replacing the children of the promise in Romans 9:8, with the children of the flesh? 5. Who is replacing the faithful “remnant” of Israelites in Romans 11:1-5, with the Baal worshipers? 6. Who is replacing the word "so" in Romans 11:26, with the word "then"? 7. Who is attempting to replace the Church made up of all races of people, with one made up only of Gentiles? Why did Peter address the crowd as “all the house of Israel” in Acts 2:36, when about 3,000 Israelites accepted Christ on the Day of Pentecost? 8. Based on Hebrews 9:15, the New Covenant cannot be separated from the Messiah’s death. Is the covenant in Daniel 9:27 connected to the Messiah’s death in Daniel 9:26. Is the covenant with the “many” in Daniel 9:27 the same covenant with the “many” in Matthew 26:28? If it is, some have replaced the New Covenant in Daniel 9:27 with a future covenant made by an antichrist not found in Daniel chapter 9. (See the 1599 Geneva Bible used by the Pilgrims.) 9. Those promoting the Two Peoples of God doctrine of Dispensational Theology often accuse others of teaching “Replacement Theology”, but are they the masters of it? Are they promoting a form of Dual Covenant Theology based on race? (See “genealogies” in Titus 3:9) Is the most important genealogy in the Bible found in Matthew 1:1? Is God's Son the ultimate fulfillment of Israel? Why has the modern Church done a pitiful job of sharing the Gospel with modern Orthodox Jews? Why would someone tell them they are God's chosen people and then fail to share the Gospel with them? Who is the seed of the woman promised in Genesis 3:15? Who is the "son" in Psalm 2? Who is the "suffering servant" of Isaiah 53? Who would fulfill the New Covenant promised in Jeremiah 31:31-34? Who would fulfill the timeline of Daniel chapter 9 before the second temple was destroyed? Why have we not heard this simple Old Testament Gospel preached on Christian television in the United States on a regular basis? 10. Watch the KZbin video “Genesis of Dispensational Theology” to see the origin of this man-made doctrine, which is less than 200 years old. It was brought to the United States about the time of the Civil War by John Nelson Darby. The doctrine was later incorporated into the notes of the Scofield Reference Bible, and then spread through much of the modern Church. Dallas Theological Seminary in Dallas Texas was created in part to promote John Darby’s Two Peoples of God doctrine of Dispensational Theology. Lewis Sperry Chafer, the first president of Dallas Theological, had the following to say about the difference between Israel and the Church: “The dispensationalist believes that throughout the ages God is pursuing two distinct purposes: one related to the earth with earthly people and earthly objectives involved which is Judaism; while the other is related to heaven with heavenly people and heavenly objectives involved, which is Christianity.” Lewis Sperry Chafer, Dispensationalism (Dallas, Seminary Press, 1936), p. 107. Chafer states that, ‘Israel is an eternal nation, heir to an eternal land, with an eternal kingdom, on which David rules from an eternal throne,’ that is, on earth and distinct from the church who will be in heaven.” Lewis Sperry Chafer. Systematic Theology. 1975. Vol. IV. pp. 315-323. John Walvoord, another prominent voice of Dallas Theological stated… "...it is an article of normative dispensational belief that the boundaries of the land promised to Abraham and his descendants from the Nile to the Euphrates will be literally instituted and that Jesus Christ will return to a literal and theocratic Jewish kingdom centred on a rebuilt temple in Jerusalem. In such a scheme the Church on earth is relegated to the status of a parenthesis.” John F. Walvoord, The Rapture Question.1979, p. 25 ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Are there two peoples of God in John 10:16? (See also 1 John 2:22-23, 2 John 1:7-11.) What is the land promise to the Old Testament Saints in Hebrews 11:15-16? (See what Joshua said about the Old Covenant land promise in Josh. 21:43.) Based on 2 Peter 3:10-13, is this earth “eternal”? Will it be replaced by a new earth? Based on Acts 2:36, and Romans 9:6-8, and Romans 11:1-5, and Hebrews 12:22-24, and James 1:1-3, can faithful Israel and the Church be separated into two different groups? Who is the New Covenant promised to in Jeremiah 31:31-34, and is it fulfilled by the blood of Christ at Calvary in Hebrews 8:6-13, and Hebrews 12:18-24? Will modern Orthodox Jews ever be saved outside of the New Covenant Church, if the New Covenant is “everlasting” in Hebrews 13:20? (See also 2 Thess. 1:7-10) If the New Covenant has made the Old Covenant “obsolete” in Hebrews 8:6-13, why would God go back to the Old Covenant system during a future time period?

[@ejeangilles]

Pre trib, mid trib, and post trib are all true and its in scripture. That's why many argue and can each prove it with scripture. Its not just one. Its God's harvest model throughout the whole bible and its revealed in the gospels. That's why all 3 gospels speak of the same story but different. They are speaking to 3 different groups of people. Luke is to the bride of Christ that goes pre trib. Mark is to left behind church that goes mid trib. Matthew is to the jews and they are post trib. Ex. In Mark and Matthew before Jesus dies on the cross he says "My God, My God why have you forsaken me" but in Luke he says "Father into your hands I commend my Spirit. In Mark and Matthew Jesus is given a purple and scarlet robe when going to the cross. In Luke he's given a gorgeous bright robe. In revelation during the tribulation you see purple and scarlet being referenced (no mention of that gorgeous bright color). In Mark and Matthew Jesus says "no man knows the day and hour" but in Luke he says watch and pray that you may be accounted worthy to escape all these things. Clearly he's saying different things for different reasons. God doesn't take everyone all at once. Like a harvest field you take the first 10% first. Then its the 90%, then last its the corners and gleanings. its laid out in Leviticus and Deuteronomy and other scriptures. There's so many other scriptures I can't write them all here. kzbin.info/www/bejne/r4m5oqybYp50i80

[@tylerj3088]

Bingo! Why we must rightly divide the Word of Truth! Great explanation.

[@my1vice]

That's nonsense. There is one bride of Christ. Maybe you need to become a mormon... LoL

[@stevebowen9970]

Here is something to think about ,yes Jesus could come back secretly ,because Jesus will come like a thife in the night ,a thife don't tell you when he is coming ,only the Father knows when this will happen ,and just think about this we will all know when Jesus will return ,he will come right after the tribulation ends with out delay ,and we know that the tribulation will last seven years ,and we will know that we're in the tribulation when it's on us ,so I'm leaning to pretrial rapture.

[@ronniewright6639]

I'm enjoying all of these videos and learning a lot! Is North Avenue Church a Baptist Church? Just curious. God Bless and keep up the great work for Christ!

[@bd5son]

Be honest there is a lot of things that are in the scripture that no one saw coming until after it happen.

[@TommyEllis-p9c]

Jesus said. All the father gives me I will not lose any but will raise (resurrect) them (all the father gives me) up on the “LAST DAY”. The elect from Adam till the last believer born in the millennial reign has to be included. No man comes to the father except through Jesus. There’s only one resurrection of believers. Those believers in the millennial reign that remain when Satan is loosed for a little season and the wicked are destroyed have to be transformed. They can’t live forever in a human form. This seems to coincide with the apostle Paul’s teaching in Thessalonians. No matter your view you’re going to have to deal with the verses with the verses with Jesus stating 3 times in John 6 and will raise them up on the “ LAST DAY”.

[@breadoflife2075]

The parable about the 10 virgins is not about the Bride of Christ. They are bridesmaids. The Bride has already been married to Jesus. (Luke 12:36)

[@7Logik]

Bingo so many miscontexualize this

[@steveteele2708]

What is your view of the church and Israel? If you blend the church and Israel you have a problem with eschatology.

[@steveteele2708]

You need to take into reference Daniel 9:27 and the 490 Years that are given to Israel. The 70th week of Daniel is the 7 years of tribulation or the dealings with Specifically Israel not the church.all of the Old Testament passages concerning The new covenant deals with Israel, read the context! That covenant is given to Israel at the end of Jacobs trouble and then Christ comes back to earth with the church to rule and reign in the millennium on the throne of David. Nowhere is the church found in the tribulation!! 1 Thessalonians 5:9 says God has not appointed us for wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ. Revelation 3:10, kept from the hour of temptation, I believe only the pre tribulation rapture can be the only doctrine for the church if you have the doctrine of the eminent return in view.

[@soulosxpiotov7280]

So, when the Apostles asked the Lord, "Lord, will you at this time restore the kingdom of Israel? " the Lord Jesus' response to this question was thus?: "You guys are a bunch of knuckle heads, there is NO future kingdom of Israel!". Wait, what translation are you guys using?

[@SpotterVideo]

What does an understanding of the New Covenant do to the Pretrib Rapture doctrine? Since the New Covenant is “everlasting” in Hebrews 13:20, how is the New Covenant Church age going to end seven years before the Second Coming of Christ? Why would anyone think God is going back to the Old Covenant system now made “obsolete” by the New Covenant in Hebrews 8:13? We are not come to Mount Sinai in Hebrews 12:18. We are come instead to the New Covenant church of Mount Zion and the blood in Hebrews 12:22-24. Once a person comes to understand the New Covenant promised to Israel and Judah in Jeremiah 31:31-34, which is found fulfilled by Christ during the first century in Hebrews 8:6-13, and Hebrews 10:16-18, and specifically applied to the Church in 2 Corinthians 3:6-8, and Hebrews 12:22-24, modern Dispensational Theology falls apart, and the pretrib removal of the Church falls with it. The Capitol "C" Church, as we use the word today, is not found in the entire Book of Revelation. Individual church bodies in ancient Asia Minor are found. In Revelation 12:11 we find those under the blood of the Lamb. A person cannot be under the blood of the Lamb and not be a part of the New Covenant Church of Jesus Christ. Verse 12 of this passage proves at least part of the tribulation period is the wrath of Satan upon the people of God. Rev 12:11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death. Rev 12:12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time. "It may come as a surprise to most pre-Trib prophecy students that the post-Trib position (in its primitive form) is the oldest point of view." (The quotation above is from the book "Will You Escape The Tribulation? RAPTURE [Under Attack]", by Tim LaHaye, copyright 1998, Page 197.) Tim LaHaye was co-author of the “Left Behind” books and movies which have convinced millions of modern Christians that the Church age ends seven years before the Second Coming of Christ. Recently, Pastor Matt Furse of Mountain View Baptist Church in Custer, S.D. has written a book titled “Which One Is Right?’, which reveals the recent history of the pretrib rapture doctrine, and the fact it does not agree with what is written in the King James Bible. The gathering of the Church is described at the end of 1 Thess. Chapter 4, and the timing of the event is found in chapter 5. The word “But” in the first verse of chapter 5 connects the two chapters, and the words “we” and “sleep” in verse 10 of chapter 5 prove the two chapters are connected. The Greek words for “wrath” and “tribulation” are not the same word, as proven by the verse below. Rev 1:9 I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ. Watch the KZbin video “Pretribulation Paradox” by former pretrib believer skydiver626. ========================================================================================================== What the modern Church needs is a New Covenant Revival (Heb. 9:10) in which members of various denominations are willing to re-examine everything they believe and see if it agrees with the Bible, instead of the traditions of men. We need to be like the Bereans. It will be a battle between our flesh and the Holy Spirit. It will not be easy. If you get mad and upset when someone challenges your man-made Bible doctrines, that is your flesh resisting the truth found in God's Word. Nobody can completely understand the Bible unless they understand the relationship between the Old Covenant given to Moses at Mount Sinai and the New Covenant fulfilled in blood at Calvary. What brings all local churches together into one Body under the blood of Christ? The answer is found below. New Covenant Whole Gospel: Let us now share the Old Testament Gospel found below with the whole world. On the road to Emmaus He said the Old Testament is about Him. He is the very Word of God in John 1:1, 14. Awaken Church to this truth. Jer 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: Jer 31:32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by husband unto them, saith the LORD: Jer 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. Jer 31:34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more. Is the most important genealogy in the Bible found in Matthew 1:1 (Gal. 3:16)? Is God's Son the ultimate fulfillment of Israel (John 1:49)? Why has the modern Church done a pitiful job of sharing the Gospel with modern Orthodox Jews? Why would someone tell them they are God's chosen people and then fail to share the Gospel with them? Who is the seed of the woman promised in Genesis 3:15? What did Paul say about Genesis 12:3 in Galatians 3:8? Who is the "son" in Psalm 2? Who is the "suffering servant" of Isaiah 53? Who would fulfill the New Covenant promised in Jeremiah 31:31-34? Who would fulfill the timeline of Daniel chapter 9 before the second temple was destroyed? Why have we not heard this simple Old Testament Gospel preached on Christian television in the United States on a regular basis? Once a person comes to understand the New Covenant promised to Israel and Judah in Jeremiah 31:31-34, which is found fulfilled by Christ during the first century in Hebrews 8:6-13, and Hebrews 10:16-18, and specifically applied to the Church in 2 Corinthians 3:6-8, and Hebrews 12:22-24, man-made Bible doctrines fall apart. Let us now learn to preach the whole Gospel until He comes back. The King of Israel is risen from the dead! (John 1:49, Acts 2:36) We are not come to Mount Sinai in Hebrews 12:18. We are come instead to the New Covenant church of Mount Zion and the blood in Hebrews 12:22-24. 1Jn 3:22 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight. 1Jn 3:23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment. 1Jn 3:24 And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us. Watch the KZbin videos “The New Covenant” by David Wilkerson, or Bob George, and David H.J. Gay.

[@tylerj3088]

John MacArthur is a Calvinist , big issues

[@guitarandotherthings6090]

Why does the when matter? It'll happen when it happens and no one knows when. We're too busy arguing instead of hastening His return by witnessing.

[@steveteele2708]

Wrong. The church ie Jew and Gentile Ephesians. We are not part of Israel. The 70th week of Daniel is directed to Israel, not the church.

[@AKdaJuiceGuy]

The tribulation centers around Israel.

[@SpotterVideo]

What the modern Church needs is a New Covenant Revival (Heb. 9:10) in which members of various denominations are willing to re-examine everything they believe and see if it agrees with the Bible, instead of the traditions of men. We need to be like the Bereans. It will be a battle between our flesh and the Holy Spirit. It will not be easy. If you get mad and upset when someone challenges your man-made Bible doctrines, that is your flesh resisting the truth found in God's Word. Nobody can completely understand the Bible unless they understand the relationship between the Old Covenant given to Moses at Mount Sinai and the New Covenant fulfilled in blood at Calvary. What brings all local churches together into one Body under the blood of Christ? The answer is found below. New Covenant Whole Gospel: Let us now share the Old Testament Gospel found below with the whole world. On the road to Emmaus He said the Old Testament is about Him. He is the very Word of God in John 1:1, 14. Awaken Church to this truth. Jer 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: Jer 31:32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by husband unto them, saith the LORD: Jer 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. Jer 31:34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more. Is the most important genealogy in the Bible found in Matthew 1:1 (Gal. 3:16)? Is God's Son the ultimate fulfillment of Israel (John 1:49)? Why has the modern Church done a pitiful job of sharing the Gospel with modern Orthodox Jews? Why would someone tell them they are God's chosen people and then fail to share the Gospel with them? Who is the seed of the woman promised in Genesis 3:15? What did Paul say about Genesis 12:3 in Galatians 3:8? Who is the "son" in Psalm 2? Who is the "suffering servant" of Isaiah 53? Who would fulfill the New Covenant promised in Jeremiah 31:31-34? Who would fulfill the timeline of Daniel chapter 9 before the second temple was destroyed? Why have we not heard this simple Old Testament Gospel preached on Christian television in the United States on a regular basis? Once a person comes to understand the New Covenant promised to Israel and Judah in Jeremiah 31:31-34, which is found fulfilled by Christ during the first century in Hebrews 8:6-13, and Hebrews 10:16-18, and specifically applied to the Church in 2 Corinthians 3:6-8, and Hebrews 12:22-24, man-made Bible doctrines fall apart. Let us now learn to preach the whole Gospel until He comes back. The King of Israel is risen from the dead! (John 1:49, Acts 2:36) We are not come to Mount Sinai in Hebrews 12:18. We are come instead to the New Covenant church of Mount Zion and the blood in Hebrews 12:22-24. 1Jn 3:22 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight. 1Jn 3:23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment. 1Jn 3:24 And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us. Watch the KZbin videos “The New Covenant” by David Wilkerson, or Bob George, and David H.J. Gay.

[@tinareinbergen8113]

1 Tessalonicenzen 1 vers 9 ,10 Want zelf verhalen zij van ons ,hoe wij bij u ontvangen zijn en hoe gij u van de afgoden tot God bekeerd hebt,om de Levende God te dienen, en uit de hemelen Zijn Zoon te verwachten die Hij uit de doden opgewekt heeft,Jezus die ons VERLOST VAN DE KOMENDE TOORN.

[@roland1808]

Matthew 24 Luke 21 mark 13 gives the order of events and rev 6 and 7 . Why would Jesus tell us things that wouldn't happen the way he said ? He wouldn't

[@soulosxpiotov7280]

Since the 7 year trib is God's wrath, we're appointed for God's wrath during this time?

[@AKdaJuiceGuy]

No The claim is made that the latter half of the tribulation is God's wrath. The former half is the wrath of man. We are not appointed to wrath. We're leaving soon.

[@steveteele2708]

Prairie Bible Institute taught the pre tribulation rapture before the Schofield Bible.

[@melvinhunt6976]

You guys don’t have to concern yourselves!

[@mountuplikeaneagle]

Ask yourself, when is the resurrection? There are two resurrections. There is the first resurrection of all those who will come with Jesus after the tribulation. There is one more resurrection which is the resurrection of those that are lost. This resurrection is after the millennium. You can read this in Revelation chapter 20. So this establishes when the resurrection is. Also read John ch 6. Jesus said of those of those who believe, AND I WILL RAISE HIM UP ON THE LAST DAY. Now is 1 Thessalonians ch 4 in part: 16For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the DEAD in Christ SHALL RISE FIRST: 17Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. 18Wherefore comfort one another with these words. So if you believe God's word and put it before all things, It's impossible for any rapture to occur before the ONLY resurrection of the saints/church which is immediately after the tribulation as Jesus said in Matthew 24:29-31 and also in Mark ch 13. FIRST YOU HAVE DECIDE TO PUT GOD'S WORD FIRST, IT IS THE FINAL AND ONLY AUTHORITY FOR ALL THINGS. ACCORDING TO PAUL IN THESSALONIANS IT'S IMPOSSIBLE FOR ANY RAPTURE TO OCCUR UNTIL AFTER THE RESURRECTION OF THE CHURCH(SOULS) WHICH WILL RETURN WITH JESUS IMMEDIATELY AFTER THE TRIBULATION

[@billweir8824]

The churches are unaware of the return of Jesus Christ to convert Israel back Ron's 10-11 God is able to regraft them into their own olive tree they were cut off from to graft the Gentiles into please see 'Christadelphian videos and Christadelphian bible talks'for excellent learning and greater awareness spiritually and you will be glad if you do

[@steveteele2708]

Wrong, the eminent appearance is the doctrine of the early church.

[@tylerj3088]

They did come to the conclusion before Darby, it may not have been as well known. The Bible is still not mastered and will never be.. things are still being debated over clearly..Do you recall the dark ages? What happened during that time?

[@tomryan1247]

Pre trib, mid trib, post trib only one can be the truth so what are the other two well they must be lies but which ones which so I’m sitting in church and the preacher is teaching a pre trib rapture and I say to myself is he teaching me the truth or is he teaching me one of the lies and why would God want me to believe a lie why do I have to live in fear and confusion over gods word

[@MisterN0b0dy]

To understand the End-Times you need to understand WHO God is dealing with during the 7-year tribulation period, which is the missing “week” in the 70 weeks prophecy given in Daniel 9 (70 X 7 years). The first 69 weeks ran from the decree of Artaxerxes to rebuild Jerusalem until the triumphal entry of Jesus into Jerusalem. Daniel 9:24 makes clear WHO the prophecy applies to when Gabriel tells Daniel, “Seventy weeks are determined for your people and for your holy city”. Who is Daniel’s people and his holy city? Israel and Jerusalem. This isn’t about the church. The 70 weeks is about Israel and there’s still one week left to complete. The church isn’t Israel and Israel isn’t the church and we need to be clear on which prophecies concern Israel and which concern the church. This is impossible to do if you WRONGLY believe the church has replaced Israel and God has no further plans for Israel. Daniel 12:7 says, “It shall be for a time, times, and half a time; and when the power of the holy people has been completely shattered, all these things shall be finished”. God’s purpose for the tribulation period is to shatter “the holy people” - ISRAEL. This prophecy specifically refers to the second half of the tribulation period. A time - one year Times - 2 years And half a time - half a year That makes 3 and a half years The 7-year tribulation period commences with the antichrist agreeing a peace treaty with Israel, but he breaks it half way through. It’s this last 3 and half years that’s specifically referred to as Jacob’s trouble (Jeremiah 30:7). I do not know anyone who believes in the rapture that appeals to Matthew 24 as a proof text. Arguing against this passage is therefore a complete straw man. And who claims the rapture is a “private” or “secret” event? Yet another complete straw man. Jesus went to great lengths to ensure His disciples understood His Second Coming, so taught them about it within the context of a common event they were already very familiar with; He spoke about His Second Coming in the context of the Jewish wedding custom. If the rapture happens at the same time as Christ’s Second Comning, how could the bride (the church) come WITH Jesus at His return? In 1 Thessalonians 4:15-18 (and 1 Corinthians 15:51-52) Jesus comes for His church and takes her to His Father’s house (as described in John 14:3). In contrast, at Jesus’ Second Coming with His saints, He descends from heaven to set up His Messianic Kingdom on earth (Matthew 24:27-31); a literal 1,000 year rule on earth (Revelation 20:1-6). There is a difference between the two events. This is further evidenced by how the rapture is characterised in the New Testament as a “mystery” (1 Corinthians 15:51-54), that is, a truth not revealed until its disclosure by the apostles, whereas the Second Coming was predicted in the Old Testament. In fact, the oldest prophecy uttered by a prophet was given by Enoch before the Flood about the Second Coming, who was himself raptured without seeing death (Jude 1:14-15).

[@SpotterVideo]

Based on Hebrews 9:15, the Messiah’s death in Daniel 9:26 cannot be separated from the New Covenant fulfilled by His blood at Calvary. Is the New Covenant found in Daniel chapter 9? Are we supposed to believe the angel Gabriel appeared to Daniel to reveal the timeline of the Messiah who would fulfill the New Covenant promised in Jeremiah 31:31-34, and then the angel failed to even mention the New Covenant. Or, is the covenant with the many in Daniel 9:27 the same covenant with the many in Matthew 26:28? The 1599 Geneva Bible is the Bible the Pilgrims brought to America, before John Darby showed up on our shores about the time of the Civil War. What was the earlier understanding of Daniel 9:27 found below in the notes of the 1599 Geneva Bible? ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Dan 9:27 And he shal confirme the couenant with many for one weeke: and in the middes of the weeke he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the ouerspreading of the abominations, he shall make it desolate, euen vntill the consummation determined shalbe powred vpon the desolate. Daniel 9:27 And he (a) shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to (b) cease, (c) and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make [it] desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate. (a) By the preaching of the Gospel he affirmed his promise, first to the Jews, and after to the Gentiles. (See Rom. 1:16, Matt. 10:5-7, Acts 10:36-38) (b) Christ accomplished this by his death and resurrection. (See Heb. 9:15) (c) Meaning that Jerusalem and the sanctuary would be utterly destroyed because of their rebellion against God, and their idolatry: or as some read, that the plague will be so great, that they will all be astonished at them. (See Matt. 23:38, Matt. 24:1-2, Luke 19:41-44) ------------------------------------------------ During recent years many New Covenant scholars have examined Daniel chapter 9 from a New Covenant perspective. Did Christ fulfill the summary found in Daniel 9:24? Is it about the New Covenant fulfilled by the blood of Christ at Calvary? Dan 9:24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy. Heb 10:16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them; Heb 10:17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more. (These two verses are quoted from Jeremiah 31:31-34.) Heb 10:18 Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin. Act 10:36 The word which God sent unto the children of Israel, preaching peace by Jesus Christ: (he is Lord of all:) Act 10:37 That word, I say, ye know, which was published throughout all Judaea, and began from Galilee, after the baptism which John preached; Act 10:38 How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him. The death of the Messiah is found in Daniel 9:26, and there are only two possible singular antecedents for the word “he” in the next verse. Those antecedents are either Christ or Titus, who was the prince of the people that destroyed the temple during 70 AD. Dan 9:26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined. Dan 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate. Is the “he” in Daniel 9:27 the “Messiah”, or “the prince” of the people that destroyed the city and the sanctuary in verse 26? If we used “the people of the prince” it would not be a singular “he”. Does the author of the Book of Hebrews connect the New Covenant with the Messiah’s death found in Daniel 9:26, in the verse below? Heb 9:15 And for this reason He is the Mediator of the new covenant, by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions under the first covenant, that those who are called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance. (NKJV) Verse 26 also says the Messiah would be cut off “after” the 69 weeks. If I agree to paint your house “after” 69 weeks, it will not be painted until the 70th week, or after. Is there a “gap” of almost 2,000 years between the 69th week and the 70th week, or was it fulfilled during the first century when the Gospel was preached “first” to the Jews? We know there is a time period when the Gospel was taken “first” to the Jews, as the Apostle Paul said in the verse below. Rom 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes, for the Jew first and also for the Greek. Can we find a time period of about seven years when the Gospel was taken “first” to Daniel’s people during the first century? If we can, we have good evidence that the 70th week of Daniel has already been fulfilled. Did Christ command His disciples to take the Gospel only to Israel in the passage below? Mat 10:5 These twelve Jesus sent out and commanded them, saying: "Do not go into the way of the Gentiles, and do not enter a city of the Samaritans. Mat 10:6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. Mat 10:7 And as you go, preach, saying, 'The kingdom of heaven is at hand.' Is the time period when the Gospel was preached “first” (Rom. 1:16) to the Jews in the passage above, confirmed in the passage below? Act 10:36 The word which God sent unto the children of Israel, preaching peace by Jesus Christ: (he is Lord of all:) Act 10:37 That word, I say, ye know, which was published throughout all Judaea, and began from Galilee, after the baptism which John preached; Act 10:38 How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him. In the passage above Luke confirms the fact that the Gospel of Christ was preached throughout the land of Israel after the baptism which John preached. Here again, we have a text which reveals a time period when the Gospel was taken “first” to the Jews, as Paul said in Romans 1:16. Bible scholars have looked at the number of Passover celebrations in the Gospels and have estimated Christ’s earthly ministry to have lasted about three and one half years. Was the Gospel taken “first” (Rom. 1:16) to the Jews for a period of about three and one half years during the period of time revealed in the Gospels? In Galatians 1:14-18 Paul reveals he did not go up to see Peter until about 3 years after his conversion. During that time the Gospel continued to be taken almost exclusively to Daniel's people, before Paul took the Gospel to the Gentiles. Watch the KZbin video on Daniel 9 by Dr. Kelly Varner for proof there is no 7-year tribulation period.

[@tinareinbergen8113]

1Tessalonicenzen chapter 1 vers 9 ,10

[@hummer40316]

Ye Dolts~! Half of church IS going into the Tribulation; if you read Matthau 25, you read that Five Foolish Virgins are Left Behind, what got their oil a mite too late. Thus, scrip is fulfilled, what read, And he shall make war with the Saints, and overcome them. Needy oil, tis writ.... Another key aspect you erudite wonders overlook intentionally is that the church has to be here for Beast to arise, as in the Falling Away. Scripture fulfilled, lest Satan and Beast get a chuckle at God's expense, and tbe Lord flieth into a seething rage, swinging his rod of iron~! God help Ye ought rather to figure out what the 'oil' of Matthau 25 is, and that the 'Rapture' is a bogus theology you four lead dogs will renounce, weeping and crying. Obedience 29 Then Peter and the other apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men. 32 And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him. Acts 5 God bless

[@peterc2579]

These guys here need to stick to their guns...so to speak as the saying goes. The pretrib doctrine is NOT biblical, PERIOD!!!!!! How did Jesus treat the Jews when he walked the earth? Okay God has mercy and will save many jews in the end especially when the trumpets sound and no fake messiah appears for them.

[@andrewsmith3344]

The rapture