What are Dark Nature Spirits? ROC's Conversations with pan

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Күн бұрын

In this extract, ROC retells a conversation he had with Pan about the darker spirits of the elemental kingdom and what Pan calls Anti Pan.
Robert Ogilvie Combie (ROC) was a very influential person in the formative years of the community at the Findhorn Foundation, working for a period alongside Peter, Eileen and Dorothy to establish the spiritual foundations of the community. For more information about us visit www.findhorn.org
Cover photo by Ali Bakhtiari on Unsplash

Пікірлер: 36

@prussian5770 2 жыл бұрын

I love this channel!

@wisehealing 2 жыл бұрын

It is my view that even though we may learn and practice the necessary steps to attain the threshold where Elemental beings may greet us, we have never completely given up our own personality dynamics. It is in fact those very dynamics which sustain the on-going connection with the Elemental realm. Yes, it is quite an accomplishment, as ROC was able to do, to converse with a well-known representative of the Elemental Kingdom such as Pan. However he is forgetting what one is dealing with, and how the connection is able to exist, by believing there are 2 separate Pans -- a good one and one slanted the other way. To me it's clear it was only ROC's own limitations on seeing only the Elementals of Light, which brought about the appearance of Anti Pan. And true to form -- Pan did comment with great wisdom on the nature of Anti Pan, but perhaps ROC could have seen his own personal Anti Self represented there as well. The Elementals are never human, despite people's desire to portray them as such. Nature wouldn't be Nature unless we permitted it to be wild, untamed, and unforgiving. Tanis Helliwell maintains that some Elementals have chosen to enter human evolution to learn free will from us and i suppose one can see their attempts to do this through the development of their castes i.e. Brownies, Leprechauns, Trolls etc. -- which became locked in time when humans no longer supported the connection -- but each one of those represents a human trait -- or one could also say, each one was a human trait picked up at a particular point in human history, by a type of Elemental wishing to develop that human quality. As far as making sure one connects only with the good Pan -- there are a host of procedures of majic developed for such purposes, however coming to an internal resolution of polarity in oneself, is sure to benefit the Elementals much more.

@TheEternalClown Жыл бұрын

What are you really saying? We, too, are a part of this "unforgiving and wild nature," and yet there are parts of this in ourselves that we seek to eliminate, rightfully, for the pain and misunderstanding they cause. So what are you meaning- how ought one to see these nature spirits? How are they really?

@wisehealing Жыл бұрын

Thanks for your great question@@TheEternalClown. In answer, i suppose first of all, i need to clarify that the term i used -- ROC's "Anti Self" -- has to do only with ROC seeing what he called 'Anti Pan' in opposition to the 'real' Pan. i don't think others would necessarily make this distinction, perceptually or otherwise, however it still could be a fairly common split made by many people. Basically what each person disowns in themselves, is projected in their domain of the not-Self (as per Carl Jung). And the Elemental realm is particularly amenable to representing the perceiver's own inner splits -- in tangible, if not physical, terms, i.e. perceiving an actual 'Anti Pan' as a separate being (as well as the good Pan). The Elemental realm is in fact, a composite of the independent existence of Elemental beings at their base level (i.e. these are usually perceived as simple geometric forms), and the overriding will (or hara) appropriated from the human life of a collective of people. The Elementals have great intelligence, but lack the heart and soul essence of humans. To also be considered, is what Rudolf Steiner (and now others) have maintained -- that each person also has, as part of themselves -- the doppleganger or double -- an Elemental being which appropriates their unconscious domain just before their birth, and only leaves just before bodily death. According to Tanis Helliwell, this Body Elemental is very happy to give up its assumed responsibility for maintaining bodily functions, as well as acting on behalf of the person regarding whatever attribute or action they have disowned. So it would make sense that when these attributes and actions are unconscious in someone, they are also coloured by the fundamental nature of Elemental beings -- wild, unforgiving and Mephistophelian, but when the person transforms their Anti/Lower Self through psychotherapy or self-development, these now conscious attributes and actions (that were once wild and Mephistophelian under the Elemental's care), often emerge as splendorous gifts.

@TheEternalClown Жыл бұрын

@@wisehealing What do you mean, that at their fundamental level, these elementals are "perceived as simple geometric forms?" If they are perceived as such, what are they actually? What am I, then, in relation to this fact? Obviously, as you say they are amenable to representing interior splits, it should follow that they are amenable to representing just anything the viewer projects onto them; how then, can we separate projection from fact? Are you implying by this 'overriding will' that these beings that exist are like 'thoughtforms' manifested into existence out of an undifferentiated potential? If not, enlighten me. This heavily presumes that Pan is not, in fact, a real pagan deity and thus not necessarily falling beneath a Jungian/metaphysical umbrella, even if it seems to have more explanatory power. That would require a realm of theology and stories that go beyond symbolism to actually represent historical fact. Perhaps there is a 'real me,' and, possibly, a 'disowned' part of me that I must 'make real' and then address. Still, Findhorn's intention seems to me as being intended to create a split between an actual existing god- Pan, who is interested in nature's commonweal and is (relatively) kindly, and a false, demonized conception of Pan created by Christians and perhaps associated with human sacrifice and unseemly things in pagan times. A misconception that has a life of its own, not self-volitional but just an idea animated by human minds. This is not to say they are the same being falsely viewed as disintegrated, but rather one is real, the other remains a human perversion. Whether or not it is wrong or small-minded to perceive this false-Pan, it is still important to as it is one many believe in and offer/offered to. Keep in mind, I'm neither a reader of Jung nor Findhorn, so I'm somewhat ignorant on the matter and don't find this idea of projection very intuitive to me. Say what you will.

@wisehealing Жыл бұрын

@@TheEternalClown You are bringing up some very pertinent points. i think we are at the very leading edge of understanding the nature of Elementals. Different people who have been able to connect with them (ROC was one), hold different parts of the puzzle. i have been trying to put it all together into something comprehensive. What are Elementals really -- well, they do have an independent existence; they are not just 'projection' by the perceiver, although there is a significant element of that as well. They are not immortal, but are said to live ~600 years. That they have a base level that is different from what they are normally perceived as, comes from shamanism, and those who can withdraw the energy they hold (which they acquire from projection, but more so at the collective, than the individual level), to be able to see it, describing as a simple geometric form (same one for each type of Elemental). Humans have the Body Elemental or Doppleganger (as originally described by Steiner). It may be that the base level of the human Body Elemental is a vase shape or chalice shape. ETs (who may be able to perceive that base level) describe humans as "water vessels." This could all be related to the Holy Grail. Basically when it comes to Elementals it is indeed all intuitive, because it is very hard to describe it in a general and comprehensive way. The reader must have at least some personal experience to hang the description made by an author, on. But Steiner did maintain that humanity's next task in our evolutionary stream, is to form a direct relationship with our Doppleganger, rather than the unconscious one we've been operating with so far. As far as Pan goes, the Elemental Kingdoms are very hierarchical, so it would make sense that Pan was the head honcho of the Nature Spirits. But regarding whether there are 2 Pans in existence -- i would say not, because Pan's and Anti Pan's form is basically the same, and form is the fundamental distinguishing characteristic in the Elemental world. So i think ROC's own rigid belief system that incontrovertibly separates good and evil, was responsible for his perception of Anti Pan, and it was this artificial separation that gave Anti Pan, a "pseudo" quality. The Elemental realm is not in duality, and in fact requires the person to be in a state of Oneness with Nature to even enter it. Once entry is granted however, (as it was for ROC, and a relationship with Pan established), what transpires will be deeply connected to the person's psychic patterns, but there is also a separate intelligence on board (the Elemental) which will usually seek to help the person understand things better. Perhaps it was clear in ROC's case, that he was not ready to heal his own inner split, and thus Pan just played along with his idea of Anti Pan.

@astraetluna 11 ай бұрын

@@wisehealing I have some in my place. They seem to mirror me it reflect my emotions. My fears my hidden corners of my hearts seem more present I’ve also seen the geometric shapes I feel mode attuned to nature and I feel the question within me Who are you ? Very uncomfortable to integrate myself But this is part of my evolution of my own consciousness I suppose I didn’t ask for this But I’m trying to understand I have a fragmented psyche from abuse so I think on some level I need to be open to learning from even a blade of grass or a stone There’s a bigger picture than just being an abused human It’s time for me to grow up more I suppose

@benpearson49 2 жыл бұрын

What am I listening to?

@PleiadianPeacockProphetess 2 жыл бұрын

Right

@drts6955 2 жыл бұрын

Lol

@robertaswanson5633 2 жыл бұрын

ROC's communications with Pan struck me as one of the most miraculous aspects of the Findhorn story.

@theomnisthour6400 2 жыл бұрын

As anyone who knows the smallest bit about Physics, there is no such thing as "negative energy". There is only energy that is disharmonic with others. This disharmony is the essence of karma, which is both the limiter and enabler of creative evolution. The forces of all dualities are locked in karmic struggle, from which emerges those who embrace truth that can be defended before God and Karma. Truthful creation earns a place in the prime universe. False unstable creations live in the universes of other senior creators.

@theomnisthour6400 2 жыл бұрын

This is entertaining reading for those who know the truth of God and his real first child, Karma. The things the divine feminine and divine masculine and their fading followers get up to in their oldest of sibling rivalries are truly monumental! 🤣

@lindaburns2568 2 жыл бұрын

How is it this dark side can confront even when it is not invoked?

@mayawhitesparks110 2 жыл бұрын

If we invoke "nature spirits" without qualifying it with "of the Highest Good" they will come. And we should always keep ourselves and our homes etc in Safe Space, spiritually protected.

@ChillAssTurtle 2 жыл бұрын

Yall are zooted outta your minds.

@ChillAssTurtle 2 жыл бұрын

@@_positivehighvibrations_ both are the same.

@ChillAssTurtle 2 жыл бұрын

@@_positivehighvibrations_ you are not in a body. You are a body.. youre ironically on a low frequency with that bs XD

@natalier.6775 2 жыл бұрын

@@ChillAssTurtle Something lacking within you makes you feel the need to belittle others. This alone is reason to look inward and examine the self. That is, others with consciousness expanding beyond the limits of your own. Just because you don't have the personal experience to understand what they describe, does not mean that they are crazy or delusional. Instead of insulting those with mindsets you don't understand or agree with, ask yourself, "Are they doing harm in the ways of their beliefs?" or "Why do I find what they say to be so distasteful?" LIVE AND LET LIVE and BE KIND. Evaluate these thoughts and try to understand why you feel the need to spread negativity/insults. There IS an underlying reason. Maybe the focus should be directed more toward what YOU BELIEVE rather than why you don't believe what others believe?

@mayawhitesparks110 2 жыл бұрын

Is anyone at Findhorn in touch with the one who has currently replaced Pan? Gaian Communicator Mare Cromwell and Richard Leviton, clairvoyant author, tell how Pan was so depleted from lack of contact with humanity and all the negativity that he had to leave for rehabilitation. The consort of the current Mother Gaia, Gui, has taken his place. I feel in contact with Frere Gui, he helps me with the animals in my life and consults about nature spirits etc. 💚

@user-hz5ju2bz3x 2 жыл бұрын

First that I’ve heard of this… I will investigate further, as I don’t know if I choose to believe this. I am in contact with Pan, as well as others, I’m sure; here I reference the Nature work of Michaelle Wright of Perelandra-Ltd. If you know all of the published conversations of ROC - most especially ROC’s Occult Diaries by Gordon Lindsay, but also the experiences he had with Peter Caddy, this information just doesn’t jibe… Pan NEVER said he was “depleted “; it isn’t possible, when you learn about him, know him.

@ChillAssTurtle 2 жыл бұрын

Evidence/proof of any kind?

@robertaswanson5633 2 жыл бұрын

I got the feeling that Pan was tired and quite disappointed in man's destruction of the planet as well as being misunderstood. But I did have the feeling that he is still around and active. I try to send him loving energy and thanks for all of his work.

@mayawhitesparks110 2 жыл бұрын

@@ChillAssTurtle Only the corroboration ofGaian Communicator Mare Cromwell and my personal connection confirmed by muscle testing.

@ChillAssTurtle 2 жыл бұрын

@@mayawhitesparks110 so just make belief