What Bach and Charlie Parker Had In Common

[@charles-mr4oz]

I have no idea what you are talking about but sitting in my quiet kitchen having my first coffee at 4.30am I am very much enjoying this tutorial

[@stevefleth]

4-string bass players do this all the time when they hit the low E but need to play a Eb, D or C next. They go up an octave to hit those notes. So now I know that's called octave displacement. Thanks Rick.

[@viggosimonsen]

It is an absolutely correct observation. Parker is the exact equivalent of Bach in classical music - both in the technical sense , and in terms of his role in music history. It just shows that music history goes through cycles. Parker rediscovered the techniques of Bach and reapplied them to jazz, just like Ellington and Bill Evans applied the techniques of Debussy. The entire history of jazz can in fact med mapped to the history of western classical music. Jazz went through the same evolution from simple diatonicity to increasing use of chromatism and harmonic extensions, facing the same harmonic dilemmas between form and chaos. Those are basically cultural life cycles.

[@sickowhale6861]

I always thought the same thing. Charlie Parker is 1900's Black Virtuoso of Bach. They feel so same

[@gerryjamesedwards1227]

There's an even neater parallel between jazz and classical music, related to Bach. It was arguably the rediscovery and championing of the music of JS Bach by figures such as Felix Mendelsohn that revitalized the music scene of the period in Germany and gave us the music that we think of as classical. He had largely left the repertoire at one point, his son Carl Phillip Emanuel Bach was much more well known.

[@dactylntrochee]

So here's my current question. "Mr Bach promotes the system whereby all keys are played with equally offensive tuning", but that system won -- didn't it? A little later, Schoenberg claimed the whole system is played out, and he invented a new one that he was sure would catch on. Mostly, it didn't (except to make creepy backgrounds in movies.) Some years ago, we replaced publicly traded receipts for "precious metal" with notes that represents nothing at all. Central banks figured (like Bach) that it would catch on -- and it did! Nowadays, there's a movement to replace all money with electronic lock boxes out in the cloud that represent a balance (Bitcoin). Will it fly, or will it be the tone row of the monetary world? Be sure to tune in to Planet Earth next century to find out!

[@jcee6886]

Great insight Viggo

[@jamesmurphy1389]

Yeah right, dude. I’ll tell you what: you can have Parker and I’ll keep Bach. 😎

[@davidgerber9317]

Thanks for showing the way for us wannabes. By spending time with videos by you, Aimee Nolte, Adam Neely, and many other skilled and generous-minded KZbin teachers, I am getting first-class, professional level instruction...for free! All I can offer in return is to tell you I share whatever knowledge I can, whenever I can, in the same spirit that you guys share with me. May good Karma follow us all!

[@that1personMan]

Amen to that, right there with ya

[@Pizaz0]

Don't forget about Kent in the Jazz Ranch

[@roaringforties]

"first-class, professional level instruction...for free! " was one of the original aims of the internet. It's a beautiful thing. Peace.

[@Vinnybrain]

Every time I stop into one of Rick's videos to be entertained..... I end up Learning Something!!... I love it! He's a born music teacher ..it just comes natural to him. :) Thank You Rick Beato!.... the world needs more thoughtful people like you! Your mission to musically educate every KZbin listener that finds you will continue to grow more millions! Why? Because you're HEART is in the Right Place! Keep up the Great Work there Rick Beato:)

[@justinmurray3661]

The bottom line is music is simple alota of these educated fools from uneducated schools talk to damn much, EMPTY VESSELS USUALLY MAKE THE MOST NOISE

[@jamesfreeman1286]

Absolutely! All these years of playing Bach (and Parker) I always loved the skips, but nobody ever explained it to me like that before. I always felt they were so similar and now I have a much better idea. Thanks!

[@rockingbuddah]

This is a Be Bach lesson

[@magentuspriest]

This should be top comment

[@robin-hr9up]

Bach to the future.

[@timothymccaskey4362]

Ivan Ramirez: It's just too bad that Johann Joseph Fux didn't start his own music school. He could have called it Fux U.

[@rico._5067]

This man has too much power

[@hanj31]

Charlie Bacher

[@tomasrevillacortazar6722]

Rick, YOU are a real treasure. THANK YOU. I think most music teachers and them wanting to teach music should have a close look at your videos. They'd spare us for many many hours of wasted shed time. Even the gifted ones would learn something. Could really copy and paste my comment to most of your videos. I play sax and your octave displacement video has virtually transformed the way I practice scales. Killing lines all over the place! Regards from an Spaniard living Denmark, who's a bit happier today than yesterday ;-)

[@jimjarnagin5344]

Thank you!!! I’m (finally) making a serious effort to learn walking bass and octave displacement adds a whole new angle to scalar lines. 😊😊😊

[@OrignialDublix]

after 4 years of hardcore piano training I can finally follow along! Thats just what I needed - thanks Rick!

[@QuaqQuao]

Hah! Turns out, due to the very limited range of my voice, I'm an expert in octave displacment already.. ;)

[@danielglickman2840]

Ha, same here

[@heifetz14]

Eric Dolphy took it further with double octave displacement which works well on sax or bass clarinet.I have tested some of my pupils by playing "happy birthday" on the piano with big displacements of 2 or 3 octaves.They never figure out what the melody is.

[@jimwinters3986]

Another mind-reading video! Have been thinking of re-learning the chromatic scale with displaced octaves. Introduced to me at NGSW. I'd eventually hear it on various records. Vai, Becker, Jarzombek, Kalle Rademaker... and possibly Jarrett on Radiance.

[@volt0z]

Rick is greatest music educator in the world! Thanks.

[@chimurengacomposer791]

Wow what a blessing in my life you have been Mr Rick Beato! Amazing videos, please keep doing the good work, you have so much to give, thanks, all the way from South Africa!

[@benyoungblood4770]

I found this video incredibly thought-provoking. As a guitarist I really appreciated the part at the end with the demonstrations on the guitar. It gave me my next technique to practice!

[@luishermano]

Great lesson, Rick! There's also a great book written by the pianist Hal Galper called Forward Motion - From Bach to Bebop. It's worth a read and he talks a lot about these similarities. The best book I ever read about jazz phrasing.

[@nicholasrees1838]

Rick, I'm surprised and impressed to hear the Gradus ad Parnassum refererenced here - and cantus firmus. I thought you were more of a rock guy. This is solid musical theory that was very important in the Baroque era where the guide lines were important - Bach learned them at his father's knee before he passed away and later from his brother. A lot of this stuff was more or less forgotten as the Classical era came in and rules of counterpoint were regarded as old-fashioned dogma and the texture of the music changed, I'd say simplified. The sympathy between Bach and Jazz is well documented - I have been listening to a Jazz version of the beautiful G minor Sinfonia this very day. Great to choose the 3rd Sinfonia as an example here. The Sinfonias represent some of Bach's best short pieces and are pretty much ignored most of the time. The C minor and G major are also great works though not easy to play despite their brevity. And of course, the F minor is justly famous for it's extreme chromaticism.

[@VideoEconomist]

The fundamentals for composition and improvisation, as well as the rules that all musicians should know before breaking them selectively.

[@shkyrbty]

Wow! Really mind opening, thank you for posting! This helps us to understand both classical and jazz and the connections shared by both. The first guitar example reminds me of some lines Duane Allman played. Sweet!

[@modularmuse]

Great stuff Rick, thanks! I remember being told, decades ago, that if you sped up a lot of Bach lines they would sound like bebop, now I know a little more about what they might have meant.

[@NahreSol]

Wow!!!!! Wow. This is so interesting and cool!

[@adastraperespera1]

Wow, Nahre. I imagined you explaining this in one of your videos while watching Rick explaining octave displacement. Then I find out that it is even new to you? Rip the fabric of my reality!

[@staceycarras3815]

Rick i like all your stuff, but i must say that this particular technique is very "effective" and useful

[@epi6676]

Rick, I'd like to thank you so much for these videos. I came from not knowing much about guitar and playing blues to using your vids to better myself, how I'm approaching the industry, and the stuff I play. Seriously, thank you for these vids.

[@treblemaker69]

The octave-displaced chromatic scale on guitar sounds like something Fripp would do and/or did! Very cool!

[@visog]

Rick, I watch your vids whilst doing cardio on the machines at the gym. Trouble is I always get inspired to try out your ideas and have to rush home to play... Great insights...

[@kaminandamusic253]

You're like the Musical , charismatic uncle i always wanted.

[@TheNinnyfee]

You are just as passionate about teaching music as my teacher at school, brings back good memories of music classes.

[@stuartthorne4872]

I can't even begin to list all the gaps in my musical knowledge that have been filled by studying your video clips. Thank you so very much!

[@wyattgranger5870]

Haha I remember when Bela Fleck once said that He always connects Back with Charlie, though he wasnt sure why. It makes sense now

[@mozgren]

It's the sort of thing I do when whistling if I can't reach that high note - go down an octave. Problem is that I don't know if others like it as much as me. You're a wicked musician btw Rick.

[@ignaciocondecarmona1761]

Thank you very much Rick, I find it enjoyable, the way you share.

[@georgemartisius7226]

I'm going to spend the next year practicing this

[@cheesecurd100s]

Did you do it?

[@johncook7281]

With that descending scale it was easier to grasp what you were talking about/ playing, with displcements. I heard it in my head as a possible part of a walking bass line so it had an association in my thing with say John Paul Jones bass line (i.e.Ramble On, Dazed and Confused.)touching a bit on --'Everyone thinks and learns differently. in your Mindset for Success' Video from yesterday. Keep on your enthusiasm with your knowledge is a great combination.

[@webmcollection2983]

15:10 I saw the spirit of Bach coming out of the blue as this melody started.

[@stevebadachmusic]

That Fux book had so many rules it melted my brain a little when I picked it up 10 years ago. Maybe I'm ready for it now.

[@stevebadachmusic]

truBador2 good suggestion. i ended up just analyzing a lot of Bach since that's the sound i was going for anyway.

[@joelrivardguitar]

Good lesson. Another similarity also in the first Bach example is the 2-5 lines. He starts on D maj then hits the b3 of Em, finishes the line with octave displacement, then hits the 3rd of A7, another octave displacement and resolves on the 3rd of D maj. It's a classic 2-5-1 line starting on the 3rd of each chord. G, C#, F#. Bach tends to do those displacement runs off of the 3rd of whatever chord he's using. Like Parker he also plays the b9 on the dominant chords.

[@graemebarnes4405]

Great stuff Rick! Your lessons are outstanding.

[@mistereasy2587]

Your teaching style is much appreciated and hope you continue to gain momentum here. Will continue to watch and learn and pass on to my students as well. Thank You

[@mikakrstic]

I discovered the essence of Bach's music. The very pattern that threads throughout every single piece he wrote. Weather organ, guitar oboe violin or voice.. Rick is onto something interesting as a talented guy. I grew up studying counterpoint in europe from amazing teachers and know all about gregorian chorals and roots of fugue and other forms with counterpoint as a main source.

[@crazyb3fan]

This is an amazing lesson Rick! Thanks a lot! That exercise on guitar toward the end of the lesson is awesome. I have to try that and incorporate it into my practicing.

[@ZlejChleba]

thank you, that guitar bit was incredible, I never thought I could practise this way, it's absolutely amazing!

[@roberthead]

Fantastic as usual! Octave displacement violates the 'no dissonant leaps' rule from Fux and strict species counterpoint that you established at the beginning. A followup maybe? A separate counterpoint video of its own would be awesome!

[@chrishaughey648]

This video has helped me loads, cheers. I've tended to use octave jumps the easy way, same note to same note. This video is forcing me to think of the continuity of the line, and made me realise that I've been lazy with it thus far. Thanks again!

[@magnificentelectromagnetic7417]

i'm impressed when i read the comments section - you're helping so many people: well done i don't even know you and i feel proud of you thanks

[@EAhonima]

I feel like my head's about to explode. That's a good thing. I wish I'd had Rick teaching my music theory classes fortysomething years ago. Thank you, Rick!

[@turretstudios9907]

HI Rick, thanks for sharing this powerful concept. Could you suggest some exercises to kind of get those motions ingrained and more automatic? I would love a follow up lesson on this with more method on how to start applying it in improv.

[@AMgangwolf]

it was almost like i just needed to learn this one thing to understand jazz and all those crazy lines i thought were never ending.

[@JohnResciniti]

Those guitar exercises at the end were awesome! We're gonna have fun in class tomorrow!

[@MightyOneManBand]

Your deep knowledge on music never ceases to amaze me, Rick 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻

[@lukejav818]

This is my favourite channel by far!!! Thanks you so much Rick! You are amazing

[@petersmart894]

Nice easy lesson for a Sunday afternoon after lunch.! Thanks, Rick.

[@andreasfriedli7419]

Retalk and play the old natural habits and( later) Rules of melodic developement and a bridge to modern application fills me with calm and joy and satisfaction.

[@247hdjazz]

Most of my songs bury a very sick or ailing cantus firmus, because I jump all major and minor intervals, and one of my best songs have some very tasty 9ths....I studied the Bach Chorale's backwards & forwards and drew my own conclusions when I started a full-time writing career...Bach was amazing, and I know I built a foundation from immersing in Bachian wisdom!

[@fadge4105]

Any scaluer Rick, opens up so many things. Thank you for this. Broadens the mind man thank you.

[@simonandresenmusic]

Fantastic! Such a simple idea, but so effective! Great lesson, thanks!

[@fredericlinden]

So exciting to hear someone talking about true counterpoint, its principles, rules, its applications. A, of course, the Masters/originators like Fux.

[@LanceWalton]

Nicely explained, but I have a question. As you said, one of Fux’s rules is to avoid leaps of dissonant intervals, & leaps of a seventh are specifically proscribed in many books (Kitson, etc.). But octave displacements in scales, as you’ve demonstrated, lead directly to leaps of a seventh. Is this ‘discrepancy’ due to Fux’s rules being more based on early vocal polyphony style (e.g. that of Pakestrina) than the instrumental counterpoint style of Bach, or have I misunderstood something?

[@LiamHaleMcCarty]

Lance Walton I was wondering the same. Is a leap here defined differently somehow?

[@jeffd8597]

The note is being displaced from “where it would have been” by an octave. the interval from the previous note is not what is being considered.

[@madisonmasontv]

Maestro, once again I bow to thee.

[@sparty2761]

Thank you for making this video, so simple yet it makes it so interesting.

[@ANTONSANMARTIN]

Beato your classes are great!!! Thanks a million!!!

[@simonsanchez23]

It'd be great to add some subtitles to your videos so that non english speakers can grasp more of it. Thank you Rick, your channel is great!

[@simonsanchez23]

Deborah totally agree!.. but there are people who really don't know any english and i don't think they'd choose a video of rick's to start their language learning process.. just saying

[@77pearcearrow]

That's really cool, my thesis in grad school was on Octave Displacement. Awesome Video!

[@ScorpWriter]

Thanks, Mr. Beato. Very insightful, very well explained in layman's term and very inspiring and informative.

[@chakatania]

The limited range of sax forces us to displace the octaves and such. Creates great lines, mastered by Charlie Parker and so many others!

[@rockstarjazzcat]

Thanks Rick. I like that you tied it in with rules for creating cantus firmus at the beginning, relating specific application examples that followed to implied wider possibilities to explore. So much bop vocabulary is made more difficult by presentation of licks, often in the absence of sound, without the driving concepts. Nice inspiring illustration. \m/. Best, Daniel

[@jhummelgaard9310]

Great content! Just a note to what you said about Fux and his counterpoint book. Historically it was an attempt to teach people to compose music like Palestrina. He failed somewhat since he never knew himself the secrets of Palestrina's music. As such Gradus was only used since there were no alternatives. Today we have the Counterpoint book by Knud Jeppesen that goes through all wrong rules laid down by Fux in his Gradus. Jeppesen simply did a statistical study of all Palestrina's works, so all "rules" he presents have a legitimate meaning, the end goal being the ability to compose music as beautiful and balanced as Palestrina. If Gradus is being used to teach counterpoint today it is pure Madness!!!

[@bluarcher5941]

yeah, that line at 15:10 is a beast for sure, but I can definitely hear the similarity to lines that Bach wrote in that type of progression. Great video.

[@dennisdewey3502]

Thank you so much Rick!!!

[@RonTheFlyingDutchman]

The chorus of Abba's "The winner takes it all" is a nice example of octave displacement, isn't it? ;)

[@gerrycoogan6544]

Good call.

[@miguelangeldiaz9380]

This little nugget...just rocketed my solos!

[@fredericlinden]

Who are the 'clowns who have given a 'thumb down' to such a lesson ? A lesson so crucial and that shall prove so valuable to 'elevate' the level of musicianship of musicians, particularly those just out of major Schools. Because, I dare saying it, I have very good reasons to doubt that any jazz school program addresses the ultimate importance of counterpoint. None. And I say so because not only do I not hear much counterpoint ... I am looked at in puzzlement every time I point out phrase length and voice leading to instrumentalists, especially in... jazz. And to those who doubt there is such a thing as a weak beat, think again.

[@SoundDiggerFozo]

You are brilliant as always, well done sir, well done.

[@jazzerson7087]

Funny thing is Bach and Charlie Parker are huge influences on my guitar playing. When I learn a Parker tune note for note or something like Bach's BWV 998 on classical I grow by leaps and bounds. Genius.

[@jazzerson7087]

15:09 beastly indeed! Let's have a lesson on lines like that soon!

[@nemesisprime0213]

Sooooo inspiring.Thank you for all these awesome vids.

[@timothyritchie5290]

god these videos are incredible. i cannot wait to play music after each one and have learnt so much. normally watch each at least twice. could you do some more one writing catchy melodies possibly analysing some examples - you do loads on interest and expanding lines but would be great to look at some of the things that are at work in simple melodies and get your take one it. thanks.

[@ElverIsGone]

I didn't understand one thing you said but thumbs up...

[@johnnytable9217]

Daniel Valle just nod your head and act mysterious with couple of aham mhmm.

[@antoniofalanga5846]

really, really interesting. Thank you, Mr. Beato!

[@jaumerossellomusic]

I found another common point between Bach and Charlie Parker, which is the use of a very particular line over a dominant 9th chord: it starts with the 3rd, then goes to the 5th, then to the 7th, then to the 9th to end up descending to the root note, then 7th, 6th, 5th. It's very obvious that Bach's harmonic thinking over this was very different, since he didn't consider the 9th and the 7th as harmonic notes, by the way, I think it's a very interesting common point and a very beautiful melodic line itself!

[@donswanson1]

Kudos to my new found cyber friend! All of your videos have been really great! Thank you!!!

[@shaddjimenez4524]

very interesting stuff, great video man. 👍🏼

[@themfu]

swinging the 8th notes would make this closer to real life playing. great video!

[@Mercy_bahr]

bless the internet and this man lotta love

[@dev--null]

I absolutely love this video! Do more videos on cool exercises, like this!

[@truthseeker4690]

Rick, your tutorials are phenomenal! As a long time guitar player, who regretfully never studied much theory, I really enjoy learning from these lessons as they're not too far over my head and are always interesting and invaluable even to a "play it by ear" musician like myself. A bit off topic but I couldn't help notice the amazing colour/lighting scheme in your studio. Very warm, relaxing tones. I'm in the process of setting up my own music room and was wondering if you happend to know the colour chip names of the paints on the walls and ceiling? When I'm playing and composing, my surroundings have a huge effect on the music I come up with and this is the most inviting and mood invoking room I've seen. Any info would be really helpful. Thanks again for the music tips.

[@ckturvey]

Great video Rick! Your Octave displacement chromatic scale exercise reminded me of Adrian Belew's use of it in 'e' by the Adrian Belew Power Trio. Exercises often become songs :)

[@butterfieldstudios2429]

So many great videos... wildly helpful! Thanks!

[@digitalninjatools5670]

great vid thank you - now I know why it sounded weird when I played about with this idea before, I had been using strong beats - doh, can't believe I hadn't twigged!

[@alfaotorongo9218]

Wonderful lesson. Looking right now for that treatise and ordering it. I really like your studio, I want to build my own Music Cave at my home so my neighbors don`t hate me.

[@craigberry4051]

Yes, that line IS a beast! Wow.

[@elsenored562]

0:21 _Octave displacement_ or _octave dispersion_ ... is a term used to describe an octave leap that's used to change the melodic direction of the scale or line 3:19 It typically happens - if you look at Bach or Charlie Parker 3:27 ... happens on weak beats, and what it's used for is to make your lines more interesting

[@bertramblik8826]

More videos like this like comparisons between masters!

[@nitinsampaul]

Hi Rick I love all the videos you make and I share it around with my friends and they say you're great. Keep up the good job Rick and hopefully I'd like to meet you soon. I'm from India.

[@rockstarjazzcat]

Beast of a line indeed! Thank you sir.

[@JayAyers]

This is a sweet lesson! Can't wait to practice it.

[@davidbusby2550]

Always teaching me something new, you are...

[@mmSeven77]

Awesome video! Thanks for all the great info!

[@chirrique1743]

These videos are gold, thanks!!

[@meatwad61]

Great lesson Rick 🤘🏻

[@BrendanDormanMMA]

I love that I found this channel.

[@davidh.8798]

Funny, because I've been listening to Bach for the first time recently, and I've felt striking similarities to Coltrane. Not in a technical sense like Rick is talking about here. But rather in terms of the balance of virtuosity and expression, the intensity, the maximalism, the speed, the confetti-spray of notes and ideas. Enjoying that discovery.