What Carbide Insert is best? Positive vs negative CNMG vs CCMT. Tool holder and inserts. Part 1

[@orangetruckman]

With already soo many videos with many of them repeating topics. You managed to find one that I feel is pretty untapped, so kudos to you sir! I am subscribed 👍🏻 I’m looking forward to seeing more real time power use on the lathe. Maybe even get some readings with HSS tools for a “baseline”??? Heck, different size HSS tools and different size carbide insert sizes. This is pretty interesting stuff to me.

[@smallgaragemachineshop2715]

Thank you sir!

[@ypaulbrown]

awesome. great series you are doing.....my kinda interest....thanks, cheers from Florida, Paul

[@mr.picklesworth]

Would love to knoe the difference in surface finish as well as what rpm did you run thebspindle at and what feed rate did you use? I have an old lathe and dont want to waste moneybon tooling that wont work. Can you get a decent finish with carbide on your old lathe or is it only suitable fornroughing cuts?

[@smallgaragemachineshop2715]

Yeah I can get a really good finish with those inserts. Had issues with spindle bearings and vibration and after working that stuff out it's been great. I can shoot a little video and do a comparison for you. It's just going to be a while because I had to move my shop all around to make room for the pacemaker. I can do a video on that if you wish. Or on my older machine in a few weeks or months. Let me know. Thanks for watching!

[@mr.picklesworth]

@Small Garage Machine Shop I would love to see a video on the old lathe and using carbide on it. Like finishes and what you can achieve or what you had to do to the machine to get the finish. I'm hoping to start tooling up over the summer. It's helpful seeing that someone else is getting carbide to work on an old machine. That way I know it's me and not necessarily the tool that's the problem haha

[@smallgaragemachineshop2715]

Lol. Fair enough I can do that no problem. I know what you are saying about spending money on things that don't work. It's painful and definitely not productive. Since I have already spent the money and made the mistakes I can find peace in knowing I helped someone else on their journey to not make the same mistakes. I can even run through a few things that were causing me a headache so you can investigate on your machine.

[@mr.picklesworth]

@@smallgaragemachineshop2715 Thanks!

[@smallgaragemachineshop2715]

You are very welcome. Thanks for taking the time to comment! Have a great weekend!

[@imetr8r]

Perhaps the Mitsubishi inserts sold under other names do not meet Mitsubishi's specifications?

[@kentuckytrapper780]

Great info, thanks

[@smallgaragemachineshop2715]

No thank you!

[@georgedennison3338]

You've gone beyond comparing apples & oranges to comparing apples & orangutans. 1. You are using 2 different inserts, relief angle aside. Your "negative" is TiN coated & has different speeds & feeds, possibly mtrl app, than your "positive", which looks to be AlTiN or TiSiN coated. THEN there is the radius size of the insert, (Which is the 9th & 10th characters in an ISO code, shown as '□' in 'CCMT0602□□'. These are typically 02, 04, 08 equaling 0.02, 0.04 & 0.08 mm. The radius can dramatically impact insert performance. THEN there is the chip breaker type, which is the hardest thing to determine unless you have the complete ISO or ANSI code, which many Chinese manufactured or branded inserts don't supply. (BTW, the 'Japanese' Mitsubishi inserts? I just bought some from a Chinese insert manufacturer via Ali Express. Hard for me to believe a Chinese manufacturer is going to import Japanese inserts, then sell them at the price I paid; closer to $2.50 per box of 10 than $2.50 per insert. CCMT inserts w/ Mitsubishi labeling & coding are some of the least expensive inserts on Ali Express or eBay.) 2. You are using 2 different tool holders. The CCMT insert has a 7⁰ relief angle; the CNMT has a 0⁰ relief angle. Tool holders have relief angle designed into them. Without wasting my time looking up the holder codes, just looking at the two shots you provided, the 2nd holder has much more relief angle. If the CNMT insert is placed in a tool holder w/ 12⁰ of relief angle & the CCMT in a 5⁰ relief angle holder, there is no difference in cutting attitude between the two inserts. (CNMT 0⁰ + TH 12⁰ = 12⁰ combined relief angle. CCMT 7⁰ + TH 5⁰ = 12⁰ combined relief angle.) In my example, the tool holder negates any difference the insert might make. Look up the tool holder code(s) & find out the actual relief angle. There is also the possibility of other geometric differences between tool holders which could impact how inserts perform. 3. There are no "positive" relief angle inserts; a positive relief angle would not work. The 'N' in CNMT designates 0⁰ relief angle. That's as 'positive' as there is, period. They are typically used in holders where relief angle is not a factor, (some chamfer tools or indexable drills). Learn the products before posting comparison tests YT viewers may base purchasing decisions on. GeoD

[@altuspienaar7679]

Positive inserts (7°) are mounted horizontal in the holder. Negative N or 0° inserts are angled. This angle has to deflect the chip more and this is the reason why a negative insert require more power to cut.

[@clintchapman4319]

If you wouldn't feed so slow I think you'd see a bigger difference in those amp and volt numbers. I think your machine is capable of way bigger and faster cuts.

[@RuianCarbidetools]

Well impressed good job😮brother

[@jakewhitney8201]

Why do they call it a positive insert when the angle is 0? Shouldn't it be a neutral insert?

[@iWonchan]

i believe most inserts have some sort of positive rake built into the geometry.

[@MarkATrombley]

I only made it 9 minutes in. I guarantee Mitsubishi did NOT make the box that has their name on it. They bought it from somebody. That same somebody probably sold them to somebody else who didn't care who's name was on it. Just because a name is on the box doesn't mean that is who made the product. Given how many counterfit products come out of China even having a name laser etched on each individual piece still isn't a guarantee that the part is made by who it says it is.

[@pcsmachineworks]

Those ebay "Mitsubishi" inserts are all China made knock offs packaged in recycled containers. I used them on my small hobby lathe in the basement for a while without any problems. But having used the actual Mitsubishi inserts from an actual dealer in my actual machine shop, there is definitely a noticeable difference. I threw one of the CNMG 432s from ebay in my doosan Puma 400 just to see what would happen in 1018 steel and it didn't last 30 seconds, not sure they are even actual carbide. Closer to M42 HSS with gold paint than anything... edge burned up but wouldn't even fracture. Good enough for home hobby stuff but thats about it. Not even comparable to the real Mitsubishi, Sandvik, or Korloy I run in real jobs.

[@Dirk_Von_Dickshlinger]

Could it possibly be inserts that failed quality control? Just thinking because sometimes they work exactly like they are supposed to then another insert will barely make 4 cuts. Not saying you are wrong whatsoever because I have thought the same thing as well. It would make sense since they are so random but at the same time I feel 100% Mitsubishi wouldn't sell them in a branded box...so yeahhh they are just garbage inserts that sometimes work great lol

[@EitriBrokkr]

You're missing the fact your suface feet per minute are changing dramatically

[@davekellogg6819]

Don’t waste your time watching. Based on the title, I wanted to like this video. However, it is not worth the time it takes to watch. I finally quit at about 32:00 when he starts adding volts to amps and watts. This clearly demonstrates no technical credibility whatsoever.

[@CarltonGauss]

no part2?

[@masoncorbin6819]

Lol running it in reverse

[@zedostenso3069]

Some people like the sound of their voice😂