What did a "sin-eater" do? | JOB ETYMOLOGY

[@domramsey]

Just want to take a moment to say how much I appreciate Jess & Rob and this podcast/channel. Not just the wonderful chemistry, but also the amount of research and hard work from both that goes into making something that ends up sounding like a happy casual conversation. It's very much appreciated.

[@paultrussy]

Agreed 👍

[@cocteaut]

@@paultrussy seconded!

[@theresabradley4716]

I totally agree.

[@jasonremy1627]

It's so good! I watch every episode as soon a it comes out!

[@Carrie15Joy]

I totally agree! They make words lots of fun. I love learning with them.

[@WayneKitching]

Mind blown! Less than 500 m from my parents' house I grew up in in Port Elizabeth, South Africa, there is hall named the Crispin Hall, which was next to the National Union of Leatherworkers' offices. I never knew that Crispin meant shoemaker. I'd never made the connection before, but now the shoe dropped!

[@bgrigg07]

I saw what you did there!

[@Khyranleander]

Guess it was a penny loafer?😁

[@keithdavies52]

As a carpenter, in America, I do prefer the term joiner, though not many Americans know the term. Working with big timbers, joining them with joints, I could probably also be referred to as a timber wright. The term carpenter is a bit sullied here in the states. Working 30 years perfecting joinery, and saying I'm a carpenter often gets " hey, can you come fix my drywall?" which I can, but I won't. Nothing against good drywall people, it's just not my job of choice.

[@timsynakedtarot]

I'm a wood machinist here in the UK and we see joiners as people who simply put a jigsaw together that us machinist create but on the other hand we see carpenters as people who do our job without the aid of big powerful machines. I doff my hat to All wood trade worker.

[@jayshko]

Carpenter sounds like a person that installs carpets.

[@timsynakedtarot]

@jayshko ah that would be a carpeter 🤭

[@markbernier8434]

Up here in the great white north you would be more likely a timber framer than joiner. Joiner, though rare seems to refer to finer things, cabinets, chests of drawers and the like.

[@lisam5744]

@@timsynakedtarot My grandfather was a finishing carpenter. I never realized there were different types of carpenters until that time.

[@kencory2476]

Those bits and bobs to do with sewing are also called "notions", which I really like.

[@emark8928]

9:30 "If you were working with heavy metals, you were a blacksmith." ...And if you were working with hard rock glam heavy metals, you were an Aerosmith.

[@trevorcook4439]

If they were true Americans, they’d be Airsmith

[@TonyP_Yes-its-Me]

In Britain, that's someone who makes chocolate bars.

[@IamShawnMichaelAllen]

To botch something is used quite often in the world of professional wrestling. “He botched that move” etc. love this show btw! Jess constantly causing Rob to blush never gets old! Keep up the great work!

[@MeMe-c1w9s]

It may just be regional but the table top gaming community uses botch to mean a fabulously failed dice roll. Which usually resulted in a failure of the task . For my group the funnier the better. (The botched fireball backfires and sets your vampire friend aflame😂)

[@joelhahn2501]

Speaking of professional wrestling, I'd be interested to hear Rob & Jess discuss the origins of wrestling jargon, such as "heel", "jobber", "to put over", and "kayfabe"

[@jgorman64]

I am a "pastor" which simply means a "shepherd". In an international gathering in Mexico pastors would introduce themselves by saying "I'm a Pastor americano" but when it came to my German clergy friends, they would introduce themselves as "Pastor Alemán" which in Mexican simply mean a "German Shepherd" as in a breed of dog. Lots of laughs at that one!

[@maggot6320]

i’m sure it’s an honest mistake, but mexican is not a language 😂

[@keithdavies52]

Hmm, that's interesting, I did not connect that. Too obvious

[@cebusapella9125]

I managed to amuse my Argentinian Spanish teacher once when we were discussing the then new Pope Francis and whether it meant that the Vatican was "modernising". I argued that I'd believe it was modernising when they elected a Pope who was black and female. Pope in Spanish is "el Papa". So I translated "black female Pope" as "una Papa negra" which to an Argentinian means "a black potato".

[@cindymello5394]

In my high school Spanish class once, my teacher started cooing out the window, excitedly telling us that there was a pastor alemán outside. We all were baffled why she cared at all that there was a priest, or how she could tell that he was German until she clarified "UN PERRO!!"

[@WordsUnravelled]

That's excellent!

[@jukeboxjunkie1000]

Yaaaaaas, Jobbie getting a mention on Words Unravelled! Scotland has arrived!

[@CorvusNumber6]

Aye, we have jobbies here too! (Northern Ireland - but we're all just Scots delayed on the way to Canada 🤣)

[@Sylvicolus]

I realized at the end of this excellent video that there is a job ending not covered. I am a botanist and mycologist. "-ist == word-forming element meaning "one who does or makes," also used to indicate adherence to a certain doctrine or custom, from French -iste and directly from Latin -ista ....." But you included its variant in barrister.

[@TrevorGrismore]

This channel is pretty new, but it is already one of my favorites. With how many words there are in English alone, you guys have years of future content available. As long as new videos are made, I’ll be here watching!

[@eddyposh72]

I love it, entertaining and fun.

[@TrevorGrismore]

@@eddyposh72 Yeah, I don't have very many notifications turned on, but do for this channel. A lot of different channels I watch while I'm going to sleep, but I'll save this one for when I'm awake. I love telling my Grandpa things I learn from these videos. I'm sure he gets tired of it after a while, but he's polite and listens until I'm done rambling.

[@cocteaut]

Former Garda Siochana in Ireland, that word "Peeler" is the most well known. However I have always been curious about words such as Rozzers and the Fuzz. Odd yet fascinating words! I did giggle at Petty fogging, having recently heard Catherine O'Hara on Schitts Creek use it. She was gifted a copy of Foyle’s Philavery: A Treasure of Unusual Words, prior to when then started filming the show. It certainly helped expand my vocabulary. Love the channel, it is certainly right up my alley!

[@punchpineapple]

I was gifted that book, too, many years ago!

[@carolmccormack2381]

Being a good Scottish (Glaswegian) I laughed out loud at Rob almost getting embarrassed by saying the word jobbie 😂

[@HJJSL-bl8kk]

I am so pleased you covered gong farmer. A friend was given one of those 'spa experience' gifts and mentioned in the blurb was a gong bath. She couldn't understand why I looked horrified.

[@davidioanhedges]

The best definition of a Bodger I heard is someone who can walk into a wood with a knife, and walk out with a knife and a chair A good bodger can build a pole lathe from scratch

[@markbernier8434]

When I was younger a frontiersman could be defined as a man who set off with a horse and an axe and built a farm.

[@TheRealRodent]

I remember a kid from my class in around 1991 or so, got detention for saying Jobbie in class. He told the teacher he needed a job... and she said "You've got a job, do your work", referring to the lesson. He then shouted loudly "I need a plop plop jobbie!" and made everyone laugh so he got detention xD

[@Pfhorrest]

I always figured "occupation" for a job came from it being the thing that occupies most of your time, it's what keeps you busy... your busi-ness, if you will.

[@Anne-Enez]

Some french inputs 😊🇨🇵... In French, "tailleur de bois" (wood tailor) refers to a woodcarving craftsman rather than a woodcutter, known as a "bucheron". As for the word 'perruquier', as well as meaning someone who makes wigs, which is still a profession today, particularly in show business, he also meant hairdresser, like the related Italian word 'parruchiere', which is still the current word for hairdresser. Thank you Jess an Rob for this "petit bijou de vidéo".

[@lukepickett2962]

Terry Pratchett wrote a book about a tosher called Dodger, its a great book. Also a great lost job is a knocker-upper. They would walk the streets waking people up by knocking on their windows before there were alarm clocks.

[@raydriver7300]

And a knocker upper’s knocker upper was a night shift worker who woke up the knocker upper 🤔🌞

[@MattMcIrvin]

I am officially a "software engineer", which is a term for a computer programmer that the non-software kind of engineers have always hated, in part because they're generally professionally licensed in ways that "software engineers" are not! But the field is gradually professionalizing. I have heard, though I do not have sources for this, that "software engineering" was a term introduced by the celebrated Apollo Guidance Computer programming lead Margaret Hamilton to convey the idea that building a large and solid body of software was more than just banging out code, but a discipline that required thoughtful design and testing, as much as mechanical or electrical engineering did. And the code she was building was very definitely life-or-death stuff, involved in whether astronauts crashed on the Moon or lived to tell the tale, so that discipline was important.

[@j.rinker4609]

One of my middle school teachers was an aviatrix. She taught us about the history of aviation. We had an opportunity to go up in a small plane, but I got an upset stomach at home and never went to the airport.

[@nathandyer4368]

This is my new favorite podcast. Thank you!!!

[@WordsUnravelled]

Welcome aboard!

[@davebrowne8252]

'Wigs on the green' was still in use when I was a kid (70s/80s) in the East of Ireland. But we were led to believe that it was when travelling judges dispensed English justice on the village green. The judges being those wearing the wigs. Also 'scríobh' means to write in Irish and is pronounced 'screev' (or close enough).

[@gaufrid1956]

My maternal great-grandfather was a wainwright. "Wain" was Old English for "wagon". He built wagons, and travelled from Sydney in New South Wales Australia to Southeast Queensland to build wagons for the local farmers to transport their vegetable crops to market. That's why my maternal grandmother was born in Laidley Queensland, rather than in Sydney.

[@Xpian]

In the UK we 'used' to put a double-G in 'wagon' -I still do out of habit- but I suspect that's dated now. I only mention this because it too showed up in the odd surname… most notably 'Waggoner' itself, but there are still single-G variations.

[@jeepien]

In my younger days as a startup engineer for nuclear and fossil-fired power plants, "trades" referred to workers mostly using their hands, such as electrician, instrument tech, pipefitter, millwright, welder, and even laborer. One could tell who was who by the color of their hard-hat, but the color code varied from jobsite to jobsite. The bosses always wore white hats. I packed a white hat, but some sites supplied a distinct color for "visitors" such as I.

[@CharlesStearman]

The small town where I grew up still had a Court Leet (dating back to Medieval times) which included an Ale Taster. I believe their job was to make sure the ale wasn't being watered down or otherwise adulterated, and that correct measures were being served. There was also a Brook Looker, who was responsible for keeping the local river and drainage ditches free from obstructions, and other officials whose names I have forgotten.

[@crgrier]

I think the law defining the proper strength and lack of watering dates from Tudor times. The Ale Taster worked for the government.

[@GazilionPT]

It's funny that in Scotland "jobbie" is a turd, because in Portuguese, a quite old-fashioned euphemism of "to defecate" is "obrar", which literally means "to do a piece of work".

[@fresh-eggs]

Here in Barbados 🇧🇧 we also say 'jobbie' instead of turd.

[@Galenus1234]

​@@fresh-eggs Same in German... There's the euphemism "ein Geschäft verrichten" for to defecate, which translates as "to do one's business".

[@fresh-eggs]

@@Galenus1234 That's interesting

[@Galenus1234]

@fresh-eggs I think it's quite likely that euphemisms of that sort are cross-linguistically (or even cross-culturally) wide-spread, given the fact that excreting biological waste is a quite imperative necessity that makes you "busy" in regular intervalls. Going deeper into the rabbithole of German excretory euphemisms there's also the further distinction between "kleines Geschäft" and "großes Geschäft" (small and big 'business', respectively), which refer to urination and defecation.

[@melanieryan5800]

In colloquial French a jobbie is/was known as a 'Un gros Commission' a Big job!! I always find this funny, because you have to take your time to get the job done!

[@brockmadden9510]

This podcast warms my heart. Thank you for the work ya’ll do. ❤

[@AlbertHardyJr]

I always love your videos. I'm fascinated by words, but the humor / humour you bring to the subject is priceless. An amusing moment which I can't blame you for is that the automatic caption generator put "senator" when you said "sin-eater".

[@rmdodsonbills]

It's hard to imagine two things being more opposite! :)

[@kh23797]

Born in 1951 in England, I grew up well used to the words "grocer", "groceries" and so on. "I'm just off to the grocer's", for example, was a common phrase in the 50s-70s at least. I still use the term "groceries" for food items bought in the local Tesco supermarket. But grocers, i.e., general food shops, hardly exist any more in most of Britain.

[@rosemarybirch3655]

I was going to say the same about grocer and groceries. Tesco and Asda supermarkets still use the word, 'groceries ' in their on line shopping. When I was young, villages and parades of shops in the UK had independent grocers before large supermarkets chains took over almost completely.

[@elderscrollsswimmer4833]

Once they mentioned that bulk... I thought 12 dozens. There is a term for that...

[@melodycuthbert4840]

I loved hearing Rob say “job of work.” I use that expression frequently.

[@melodycuthbert4840]

At work we don & doff PPE (personal protective equipment)

[@melodycuthbert4840]

That lawyer from Better Call Saul would have been a pettifogger.

[@michaelstamper5604]

I most often hear it used in the sense of something long and complicated and tiring. "Sheesh, that was a real job of work! I need a coffee and a sit down before I start on anything else."

[@thembi125]

Another superbly informative installment! I came to share that I was stunned when one of the skills checklist items on my hospital discharge paperwork was "donning and doffing" orthotic brace. That's the technical term the US hospital/physical therapists use for putting on and taking off! Seems like I'd have better things to think about as a patient, but I couldn't stop saying it to my therapist just hear myself using the word "doff" in a legit context.

[@DessieDoolan]

2:57. I once worked in a very old building, with very old plumbing. There was an upper floor bathroom with a toilet (to be clear for those who misuse the word bathroom) that had a sign on the door 'no big jobbies'. You'd only ignore that sign once. Things would build up very quickly!

[@NatickJill]

Interesting. I thought using the word "job" for a turd was a family thing. I wonder which branch it came from, Danish, German, Swiss, or English.

[@conniebruckner8190]

[@michaelsommers2356]

The lawyer in the _Wizard of Id_ comic strip was named Larson E. Pettifogger.

[@joadbreslin5819]

Thank you. I knew the name from somewhere, but didn't feel like looking it up.

[@paultrussy]

Excellent episode.. My daughter married a 'Couperthwaite' which I have always regarded as a fine northern English word which has two roots: 'couper' being someone who makes wooden barrels for beer, and 'thwaite' being a placename used to describe a small village; similar to a hamlet, most commonly in North Yorkshire.

[@elizabethmcglothlin5406]

My cousin married a Coopersmith. Much the same.

[@susanpilling8849]

As I understand it from my school days 'thwaite' is an old Norse word for clearing. There's a North Yorkshire village called Yockenthwaite, we visited on a school trip.

[@paultrussy]

@@susanpilling8849 yes, there are a few, including one simply called 'Thwaite' near Keld on the Pennine Way.

[@ptrinch]

41:22 The round trip of the word barista is quite interesting. It was during WWII that the term 'Bar' was adopted in Italy to refer to establishments that served beverages. In Italy, I should note, a pub and a coffee house are the same establishment. You go to a 'bar' and you can order a cappuccino and a brioche for breakfast. Go back in the evening for a beer or an aperitif. Or in mid-afternoon, get a caffè corretto which is a shot of espresso with a splash of grappa in it (still waiting for that option in Starbucks). But I digress. Soon after adopting the term 'bar', the word barista was coined for bartender. The word gained common usage from the 40's onward until it made it's return trip to the English speaking world and became common usage for workers in coffee shops.

[@stischer47]

In my family and friends, "tinker" was a verb meaning "to do something but not as a profession" and someone who "tinkered" was a "tinkerer".

[@thelazychefuk4410]

The pudding called cobbler is British and consists of stewed fruit with little scones as a topping. While jess is correct about the American version, I have seen many Americans calling crumble 'cobbler' too.

[@Sarcasticron]

Canadian here. I just made one with the crumble yesterday, and I was calling it a "cobbler." I stand corrected! At least I know the right name in time for the leftovers.

[@rmdodsonbills]

There are a number of similar kinds of dishes like cobblers in American cuisine (crisps, crumbles, grunts, and more, I'm sure). While there are differences, those differences can be subtle and so I wouldn't be shocked to find that people mix them up. Add in regional and generational variations and it just gets more complicated. One thing for sure, though: if there's a crust *under* the filling, it's a pie.

[@Deep-Sarcasm]

31:45 1700s people watching Rob and Jess belly laugh about their completely normal wig situations 😐

[@DessieDoolan]

12:45. Worked with an old carpenter when I was a young carpenter. His job prior to being called up during WW2, was 'counter-jumper'. He worked in a grocery store and would dash around the shop picking the orders as the customer read out the shopping list. I guess it involved some gymnastics. 27:53. 'Tailor-mades', in ye olde timey Australian vernacular, were manufactured cigarettes. As opposed to ones you would roll yourself. 34:53. Bodger. I think...generally refers to a woodland woodworker who makes chair components from freshly cut timber from coppiced trees. 36:46. Night soil collector. Common Australianism, 'as flat as a sh!t carters hat'.

[@thedogfather5445]

An unusual occupation in the world of pottery manufacture was a "saggar maker's bottom-knocker".

[@toddverbeek5113]

My favorite word for a job that doesn’t exist anymore is “proofreader”. :(

[@andrewharris4268]

My fingers were poised to complain oh so bitterly that you’d missed the Scots usage of Job/Jobbie but no, you dropped it in the convo very elegantly.

[@psiphiorg]

On the topic of -wrights, a show I enjoyed watching as a kid was The Woodwright's Shop, airing on PBS (public TV in the US). He showed off lots of different carpentry skills, but also told a story as he was doing his work. I don't think I've ever seen the word "woodwright" used outside of this show, but some brief research suggests it is a real word, just not super common.

[@markbernier8434]

You would love Engles coach works channel. He would be the Woodwright's professor.

[@KwanLowe]

Thanks! This is the best part of Wednesday.

[@WordsUnravelled]

We're thrilled you love it, and are extremely grateful for your generosity.

[@ceeplusthree]

This is my new favorite channel. Your enthusiasm for language is infectious. I am continuously amazed at your seemingly endless list of categories to explore.

[@marymactavish]

American here, from California, and it never even occurred to me that a haberdasher sold anything but bits and bobs. Maybe milliners would sometimes shop at the haberdasher for supplies.

[@JiveDadson]

In East Texas, loblolly is a variety of pine tree.

[@stischer47]

I wonder if the pines were used to fix boats...to "doctor" boats.

[@heymikeyh9577]

Wikipedia tells us the name came from its lowland/swamp habitat-tenuous, but could the “swampy” appearance of some porridges form a connection?

[@JiveDadson]

@stischer47 I think doctors used the pine needles medicinally, as a laxative -- hence the expression "With fronds like that, who needs enemas?"

[@rmdodsonbills]

@@JiveDadson Well Done! Well done, indeed. :)

[@steve-4045]

In NC textile mills as I grew up had workers called doffers. They removed spindles from spinning frames. They were very skilled and quick, so the machine didn’t stand idle very long.

[@xyz679e]

Jobbie was the polite word to use when telling my mum that I needed the toilet when growing up in Scotland. Keech was a much less acceptable word. Turd was unknown to me.

[@weegiewarbler]

Keech may have come from the Gaelic, cachd.... a choochter jobby!

[@paultrussy]

Being the owner of two Labradors, dealing with dog turds or 'dog logs' (as I usually call them) is a delight of everyday life! 🐾🐾💩🐾🐾💩

[@TonyP_Yes-its-Me]

I often hear that it's a Scot's word, but as a kid in the sixties, we in Nottinghamshire used it all the time. I don't know where it came from. Definitely not from TV, because that sort of word wouldn't have been used on TV, back then.

[@conniebruckner8190]

@@paultrussy and when they've done their "job" they get praised with "good job!"

[@charleshayes2528]

Hi, Grocers used to be commonly seen when I was growing up in the mid 50s to 70s. We had a local butcher, who dealt in raw meat, but no goat, a baker and a green grocer, who dealt in uncooked vegetables and bulk bags of potatoes, etc. The Grocer's dealt mostly in tinned and packet foods, such as soups and vegetables, tinned meat and fish, etc. They would also stock cooked meat, some sliced bread and packaged cakes (whereas the baker did unsliced loaves and fresh cakes, the only ones being pre-packed would be the elaborate birthday cakes.) The Grocer might also stock a small range of Cheeses, mostly unwrapped to be cut and wrapped according to the customers wishes, along with some non-edible items, such as candles, shoe polish, dish clothes. In this respect, they were a smaller version of a general store and precursor to the Supermarkets. One of the larger local Grocer's had three "shop" windows, with Grocery, sweets/candies and odds and ends, plus a hardware/ironmonger's and timber yard. Usually, goods were on shelves behind the counter and you were served by the staff. While Jess may not get this, Rob will probably remember the BBC TV Show "Open All Hours" - Arkwright's shop was basically a grocer's shop, but with a lot of extras.

[@Teddy143Fresa]

You guys are in my top two favorite channels. I wake up looking for your videos. Thanks

[@57WillysCJ]

Great video. Sadler is another name from an occupation. I find the strangest come from the film industry. Gaffers, Best Boy as well as a few others.

[@auldfouter8661]

They should have referenced Billy Connolly's " Jobbie Wheecher " sketch, about aeroplane toilets of old.

[@JimCullen]

I believe the connor at 39:40 is related to the Scots and Scottish English "ken", meaning "know"? Which I always assumed was also related in some way to French "connaître" which I in turn assumed was related to "reconnaissance", but a very quick look right now suggests that's _not_ the case-for either of those assumptions.

[@PoulStaugaard]

And ken would be from old norse or german, both (including danish) have kenne/kende meaning to know.

[@mybachhertzbaud3074]

Tremendously great information. As someone who was influenced by Professor Higgins as a child, I have always been interested by these things. Great idea to work with two that are across the pond to explore this topic. Subbed.😁

[@simonpayne7994]

Yet again, en enthralling episode. I could listen to these two for hours and hours!

[@annbrady6212]

My father worked in a cotton mill as a young man. Right before he died at home, he was making strange (to me) hand movements. I asked my mother what he was doing and she said. "He's doffing." Thank you for this memory.

[@floraidh4097]

Speaking of work, this nearly made me late for it! I was enjoying listening to your stories and drinking a coffee and if the trash truck going past hadn’t made me check the time I would have completely forgotten about it. An enjoyable show as always!

[@richdiddens4059]

I believe cob started out meaning a head (kopf) and cobble first came to mean a head sized stone used to pave a street. You had to fit various sized and shaped stone together to cobble a street. And the most common meaning for haberdasher that I've heard of is a purveyor of quality men's clothing.

[@melodycuthbert4840]

A haberdashery sells ribbons, bobbins, pins, & things for sewing.

[@william6223]

Thank you, I have ancestry whom were named Cobb. Of course! Makes more sense now.

[@Galenus1234]

@@richdiddens4059 The modern German word for head "Kopf" actually stems from Latin "cuppa" ( = English cup). The native Germanic word for head in German used to be "Haupt" (cognate to both English head and Latin caput).

[@larryfontenot9018]

Speaking of shoes, I've heard that the word "Leprechaun" translates as "one-shoe maker" because in Irish folklore, Leprechauns did just that. They made shoes for people, but never more than one.

[@jgorman64]

This was a fun episode! Jess and Rob are the best!

[@chin_chillin_villian]

Love u guys so much! I’ve always been a word nerd and y’all are my go-to for such nerdery.

[@nancysan2151]

I mentioned to my father the phrase "dash my wig" and its meaning. He mentioned that my grandfather, who was from Ireland, used to say "there were wigs on the grass" when their team lost a match or some similar event where many people were upset or mad.

[@lorraineliggera4229]

Screever (sp?) is mentioned in the movie “Mary Poppins” when Dick Van Dyke/Bert is making the chalk drawings the cast jumps into for the animation/live action portion.

[@sourisvoleur4854]

We had a cobbler nearby but the building he was located in burned, and we haven't found him since. He may have retired; he seemed rather old. Not very talkative but excellent at his work.

[@jimb9063]

Always wondered what happens to cobblers soles when they pass away.

[@johnburnside7828]

In the US "haberdasher/y" refers to men's clothing and accessories in general. And regarding a sin-eater, there's a 1972 episode of "Night Gallery" with Richard Thomas playing the son of a sin-eater. And when the old man dies, his wife demands that the son take on the professional and eat his father's sins (and she sets out a banquet on the man's coffin).

[@nancyreid8729]

A dobby is a corruption of the term draw-boy, the young nimble light-weight boy who stood up on top of the old draw looms to pull the draw-cords for complicated weave structures; the weaver handled the treadling and threw the shuttle. The job vanished with Jacquard’s dobby loom, which ran on punch cards and was the precursor to a binary computer.

[@clmabel1]

I have to say, as much as enjoy the education...My favourite bits are when Jess' eyes light up and Rob, blushing.

[@craigeverhart4755]

Gotta admit, feels like they’re flirting constantly.

[@DonFearn]

Why does a chicken coop only have two doors? Because if it had four doors it would be a chicken sedan.

[@peterdean8009]

That joke will be meaningless to non-Americans!

[@davidberesford7009]

I'm in the UK. I understand the joke, but you should follow it with "I'll get my coat" a groanworthy gag.

[@kencory2476]

How about "Wrangler", for a person who works with animals, often for productions. You could have a cattle-wrangler for Western movies. You could even hire a worm-wrangler if you needed one.

[@rmdodsonbills]

On that topic, prior to the designer jeans of the 80s there were basically two brands of denim pants, Wrangler and Levis. Levis were for the miners and Wranglers for the cowboys (I mean, there were exceptions but, in general). Levis were the brand that broke out to the general populace while Wranglers generally remained the choice of "rural America."

[@pierreabbat6157]

Someone who repairs belly buttons on a ship is a naval navel surgeon. Another word for a quantity of work is "darg", which is "day work" worn down for centuries. Kir, in a Fictionary round that I ran, mentioned that a cordwainer makes shoes out of new material, while a cobbler repairs old shoes.

[@TheBunzinator]

In more modern times, the space industry uses don and doff for the acts of putting on and taking off a spacesuit respectively. Also, I don't have a sound basis for this, but leech and leach are thought to come from a proto-indo-european word meaning "leak", so it's unsurprising that all these words are related to movement of fluids.

[@blueunicorn256]

A job title that has always amused me is "Sagger makers bottom knocker". A job that originated in the potreries. Thanks for the show. I look forward to every episode with anticipation.

[@WastrelWay]

What a great theme for an episode! I am just started watching, and Rob has reminded me of the British word "jobsworthy", meaning a functionary who does very little and gets paid for it. That is a pejorative and sarcastic use of job. We should adopt that word here in the US.

[@davewalter1216]

Thank you for another educational and entertaining etymological exploration. Alas, though, I feel my job has been given short shrift. Where are the -gists? For example, my profession, occupation, and employment for several decades has been as an acarologist. People always look askance at me when I make this claim; but perhaps, if I describe myself as a 'mitewright' all will be copacetic. PS - the Australian equivalent of 'wig out' is 'spit the dummy', ie when an irate child spits out its 'pacifier' and starts screaming. PPS - love the silvery scorpion on Jess' book shelf. Or is it Jess's? No that can't be. I need to watch that episode again.

[@jimb9063]

Wonderful thank you. Now I understand the origins of the term "a job lot" when referring to the amount of items to be processed. Haberdasher remains a favourite word, a local one sells material and all the trappings, but no clothes. If the collective noun for cobblers isn't a Northampton, it should be.

[@jamespreston7823]

The ale-conners were essentially trading standards officers. They were checking that it was of proper strength. The Crown set standards for prices and quality, and then enforced them through various officers. The Crown also forced Guilds to regulate the standards. Which they did happily in order to enforce the monopolies they were granted. See the Assize of Bread and Ale. As merchants became common and important so did fraud.

[@MercuryBlether]

Does anyone reckon ale-conner could be related to connoisseur??

[@dreamingwolf8382]

My very French grandmother was a seamstress in the 1940s, and she used to refer to any of the extra or excess fabric and accoutrements for a garment (that was still in good enough condition to use or resell etc) as "haber-das (tas?)". I always took it to mean the leftovers in good condition, almost in the vein of "resale" etc.

[@arwenwestrop5404]

I'm wondering if the 'conner' as in 'ale-conner' would be related to 'ken' as in 'that is outside of my ken'? And that 'screeve' is definitely related to Dutch 'schrijven', to write. Oh my, I have been fascinated by etymology since I was 8 and discovered my father's Dutch dictionary of etymology - he was a Dutch teacher and had just passed away and I was secretly going through his books, because I love books and I loved him, so that was a natural thing for me to do. And so now I love these podcasts - thank you two so much for all the work you do to inform us in such an entertaining way about the one thing almost all of us use every day: our languages!

[@markbernier8434]

Check, but I think "ken" is a Scots word originally for enclosure and evolved to also mean knowledge.

[@AngelodeCiutiis]

As a fan of etymology and a coroner, I wondered why death investigation would have anything to do with crowns. Turns out the job used to be protecting the financial interest of the crown in criminal proceedings (which would have included death investigation) and changed over time. Great episode, as always!

[@QTGetomov]

People often mis-spell and mispronounce restaurateur as 'restauranter' as they're the owner of a restaurant, but the restaurateur came before the restaurant. When you went into battle and got a bit banged up you'd go to the restaurateur to get restored. The best restaurateurs had a restorative soup which would perk you up, so eventually you'd just go to their place of work, the restaurant, to get something tasty to eat.

[@dingokidneys]

I'm really enjoying this channel. Lots of fun and learning.

[@cisophon]

you guys are awesome. appreciate these fascinating facts.

[@jimlang7461]

Once again Words Unfravelle comes through for the Mountain time insomviac

[@frankhooper7871]

As well as lawyer and bowyer, we used to have sawyer as a profession [not just as a surname] for someone who basically cut wood for a living - a few of them on early censuses in my family tree. Lots of cordwainers in my tree too 🙂 LOL - the word that came first to my mind when thinking of -trix was executrix. Wow! - Rob managed to say 'bollocks' without blushing.

[@rmdodsonbills]

I used to live in a sawmill town and in the late 80s the new owners of the mill were modernizing and introduced a computerized tool for working out what kinds and sizes of boards could be cut from a specific log which had been the job of the sawyer. I doubt the job could be completely replaced by automation, and so I believe there are still sawyers today.

[@allanlees299]

Out of boredom one day I counted up how many English-language surnames derive from professions. My count reached 121 but I suspect I missed a few. As for sin-eating, we still have that today. When a bank loses billions on a bad trade it's never the senior executives who go to our contemporary version of hell (prison) but always some hapless junior lackey. Likewise in the military and in every large organization you can think of. But in our modern world the poor sin-eating underling doesn't even get the chance to volunteer; they are volunteered involuntarily.

[@hulkthedane7542]

...."lobscouse"... a naval dish... In Denmark we still have a disk called Skipper Labskovs (the Captain 's lobscouse). Meat boiled with potatoes, carrots, leeks.....

[@helenbaumander3953]

People who have never been in a classroom with someone like me don't quite understand what my job is, even though you'd think my job title is self explanatory. Lots of people want to call me a teacher, but I'm not. I haven't been to teacher's college and other than occasionally reading to a class, I am only responsible for an entire class on my own if I'm supervising lunch and snack breaks. I'm an education assistant. They keep it as broad as possible because I can do so many different things in a classroom. I'm generally helping with what the children need, not doing tasks like photocopying, prepping activities, and organising materials, though of course I can do those things. In the US, they would call me a para, as in "paraprofessional."

[@paigeherrin29]

LOVE THIS EPISODE!!! Have you guys done idioms yet? I'd love to learn the origins of some of those. I said, "don't let it get your goat" to my 21 year old son and he thought I had lost my mind and was just making up some nonsense. I was like, "you've never heard that?" but he seriously thought I was making it up. So, we called his sister in California and asked her if that was a real phrase and she laughed at me too. She is 32 years old, btw so yeah, I feel a bit "long in the tooth now". How have my children never been exposed to these phrases at some point in their life? I have no idea how i learned them so I'm guessing just exposure somewhere in my travels I picked them up. :-/

[@corralescoyote]

Here’s to hoping this dynamic duo gets around to granting your wish. It begs the question: the pot calling the kettle black, call a spade a spade, tell the difference between shit and Shinola, take a chill pill, go the whole nine yards, swing for the fences, right off the bat. Don’t drink the Kool-Aid, or throw the baby out with the bath water. Hold your horses, keep yer shirt on, don’t git yer panties in a bunch. Give it the old college try, throw your hat into the ring, take a stab, ante up, go all in, throw in the towel, go down for the count, circle the drain. Tap out, take a knee, cop a squat, put yer dogs up, take a load off, crash out, take a dive. Get to first base, round the bend, hit the home stretch, yada-yada (not that there’s anything wrong with that).. ✌️

[@hive_indicator318]

There's a site called worldwidewords that has a lot of these. He did a weekly blog and even got some earlier known uses for the OED, where he worked. Hasn't had any new stuff for a few years, but it's still my go-to for looking up phrases

[@ericsmith1508]

Speaking on behalf of American English speakers from a different part of the country than Jess: "groshry" is NOT a general American pronunciation of the word "grocery". I would imagine that is specific to her region, possibly even specific to her family.

[@zak-a-roo264]

I had to look it up, one study says 1 in 3 Americans pronounce it with the "sh" sound. People use both here in New England.

[@calvinemerson]

i've been listening for a long time and i must just say that y'all are getting better and better, more and more entertaining x

[@FireflyOnTheMoon]

A nice connection with 'tinker' being the word of the hammer hitting metal 'tink, tink' - as with the French word 'quincaillerie' from clinquer (to rattle, make a metalic noise), which comes from the onomatopeic word clic (click). Similar words exist in Spanish: quincallería. The word clinquant also exists in English, and was borrowed from French, which was possibly borrowed from Dutch klinken (to sound, ring, clink). It all makes me very happy. Lol The process of cleaning of English castle latrines is worth looking up. It was a nightmare as English castles might have had thousands of people living in it with no functional drainage or proper sewer system. In the time of Henry VIII, and presumably other royals, would go on "procession" around the country with the whole staff and court of castle, staying at noble houses, so that the castle sewers could be cleaned out.

[@michaelturner2806]

13:30 My grandfather used to say after a hearty meal that my grandmother cooked, "Good groceries!" I don't know if that was meant to be poking fun, implying that the enjoyment of the meal stemmed more from the quality of the ingredients than the skill of the cook.

[@BKPrice]

Hamlet: "Get thee to a wiggery." Based on the information about leeches, I wonder if lecture or lector has the same root.

[@Xpian]

A 'Cordwainer' was-perhaps still is-west country for a (lit.) 'shoemaker'-bespoke in that they were made for the wearer, yet with no posh connotation-whereas a 'Cobbler' was a boot- shoe- mender; not a maker (the latter usually resoled & reheeled). A 'Cooper' was still recognisable as a barrel maker in the west country as well; not merely an enigmatic surname…but I'm old enough to remember wooden barrels!😉 This podcast is quickly becoming addictive! Cheers!👍🏻

[@HJJSL-bl8kk]

The London College of Fasion offers two BA degree course for cordwainers. It's still a thing.

[@tomw2131]

Cordwainer Bird was, I believe, a nom de plume of Harlan Ellison. Meanwhile, Cordwainer Smith is a nom de plume of writer Paul Lineberger.

[@Xpian]

@@HJJSL-bl8kk Cheers! I'm hardly young and have lived abroad for decades, so didn't know until you have just now told me that the word is still current back in the UK. Thanks again!

[@jakegarvin7634]

I love how Rob goes squishy with every naughty concept they bring up except the word "Dominatrix"

[@jimsteele9261]

I always thought a haberdasher was a gentleman's clothing store, not just hats and accessories.

[@Xpian]

Not as if I sew, but my Mum certainly did. I think the UK sense in US terms is something like a '(Sewing) Notions store'. (In the UK I can't think of it ever having anything to do with men's hats… or clothing, and that's when bowlers were still common on male office workers, esp. in management, and everyone wore suits except for sport; (though this went out of fashion by the '70s).

[@bobwatson8754]

If I remember correctly, one of the criticisms of President Truman is that his only business experience came from running (poorly) a men's clothing store...a haberdashery. In which case he was a haberdasher.

[@graemetait6822]

Brilliant, informative and entertaining as always - many thanks

[@keitholding8541]

Regarding the -trix ending, I believe 'executrix' is still occasionally used for a female executor. My own will names two executrices. The -er and -or endings do seem very confused. In my profession the terms 'tax adviser' and 'tax advisor' are both widely used.

[@mattymoowhite]

39:40 according to the Tetley brewery wharf tour guide, the ale conner would wnter a pub pour a pint of ale on a leather seat, sit on it wearing leather trousers and if he stoot up after an hour without the seat sticking to his trousers then knew the brewing had turned all of the sugar to alcohol and was thus counted as a good brew