What Feminists Get Wrong About Sex Work

[@jinbee2627]

Criminalising sex work appears to have been about as successful as the war on drugs.

[@hannahwitton]

So true and in the book they spend a lot of time talking about drug use and the criminalisation of drugs and lack of access to drug dependency support which has huge impact on sex worker’s being able to access resources and support

[@altertopias]

i love it when vice says "we would like to congratulate drugs for winning the war on drugs"... feels like it'd be similar here.

[@fgregerfeaxcwfeffece]

What do you mean? Last I checked the drugs where doing fine. Don't tell me we are on the other side please.

[@custos3249]

Yep, sad how many laws that applies to. And thanks to pseudomoralism and seeing people as objects, we side with major, uncontrolled abuses we can sweep out of sight rather than allow controlled, minor abuses out in the open.

[@StuJones-gn7te]

True. But the me2 and associated movements and fear mongering just might.

[@homosoftommorow]

Thank you so much for this. I am not a sex worker but i am a child pornography survivor and the "advocacy" and rescue orgs have taken control of the narrative to the point many of us survivors have no idea what we've been through since adulthood. Sex workers advocacy on these topics is what helped me realize what id been through. Sex workers absolutely deserve rights and safety and support. Not "rescuing".

[@Alex-tl5fz]

this is such a powerful reflection, thank you for sharing with the world/this comments section :)

[@technoloverish]

Sorry to see that! Glad you're able to discuss it here with people who will empathize

[@kunpunko]

the incredibly large majority of sex workers are women and girls forced into it.

[@samw4562]

I don't have a ton to add but just wanted to say as both a trafficking survivor and someone who has done sex work voluntarily, thank you for making this video, it's a complex issue that needs to be discussed openly

[@marsintheory]

As a trans person, I really appreciate the analogy at the start. Not only because we often are pressured into sex work to address our material needs, but also because you articulate this juxtaposition between the conversations happening about a controversial group vs. the conversations happening within that controversial group so well. I care like 50% about medical access, 50% about being able to use the bathroom safely in public, and 0% whether the general public think I'm a woman or not.

[@GojosBackHand]

Your not

[@marsintheory]

I never claimed to be, but thanks for reinforcing my point lol. Literally all y'all ever care about, and it's not something I give a single flying fuck about. 😂😂 Also how do you know? Do you know what chromosomes I have? Cause I sure don't! @@GojosBackHand

[@annakissed3226]

​@@GojosBackHandOi Fascist, we don't need your hate here.

[@annakissed3226]

Thanks for articulating that. And especially for describing yourself as a trans person & whether public see you as a woman or not. Because at no point did you specify what 'sex'/fantasy you had been ascribed to at birth.

[@supernova622]

​@@GojosBackHandthe algorithm thanks you for your contribution

[@catastrophicwaitress]

LOVED this video, so informational! "feminists end up getting stuck on the 'sex' part of sex work, when it's the 'work' part we need to focus on" blew my mind. thank you!! also amazing "not taking this capitalist shit anymore" vibes you are giving off. angry and focused, I love it!

[@hannahwitton]

Angry and focused haha thank you!!

[@jamillahamdi]

The sex part isn't important? When it's almost never done with another option? That's sick.

[@catastrophicwaitress]

@@jamillahamdi she doesn’t say that the 'sex' part isn’t important. The point is working towards making working conditions safe as well as having social safety nets in place so people don’t HAVE to go into sex work because it’s their only option.

[@jennalove2873]

I have never heard a non-SWer nail it like this. Ever. It is so clear that you did your RESEARCH for this video and that you listened to SWers. You are using our language and this is some real allyship. Thank you ♥️

[@missolympiabinewski]

I'd throw in a somewhat related centering point, feminists, particularly Second Wave feminist had a hostility toward sex workers because they believed their existence reinforced male stereotypes about women. Similarly, there was a hostility and indifference to stay-at-home moms for the same reason. "Choosing" to be a mom without working and "choosing" to be a sex worker sent the message to men that women were either sex objects or maternal figures and undermined working women who wanted to see women thrive in the professional classes, which made up the vast majority of the leaders of the feminist movement. Lesbians also got pushed out of the movement for similar reasons---we're being called lesbians by men as a slur so if the movement is full of actual lesbians it will give the slur more weight. I think feminism still struggles to meet women where they are in their lives---their desires, their circumstances, their challenges---and advocate for their needs as they experience them. If there's one thing that unites us it's that no matter what we're doing there's a system of patriarchy that's actively making it harder.

[@synchronium24]

"Second Wave feminist had a hostility toward sex workers because they believed their existence reinforced male stereotypes about women." Christopher Hitchens had a truthful if crude quip about this kind of argument. "[Men] don't care if you're funny. We already find you attractive, thank you very much." (Heterosexual, at least) male desire for porn and casual sex created the demand for sex work long before stereotypes about women could take effect. "I think feminism still struggles to meet women where they are in their lives---their desires, their circumstances, their challenges---and advocate for their needs as they experience them. If there's one thing that unites us it's that no matter what we're doing there's a system of patriarchy that's actively making it harder." Patriarchy is a poisoned word for me, but I'll bite. Which things would you classify as both a) making women's lives harder and b) part of patriarchy?

[@ClinicallyPolyamNatBLK]

This is so wonderfully articulated. The ambivilance and outright antagonism is often rooted in the loss of nuance about these concepts. To be blunt second wave feminism also had such a class and race problem because feminists and womanists had such different experiences. My mom was one of the first temporary stay-at-home moms in my family because for people of color and the working class that wasn't always an option. But for those who controlled the narrative this was often unreliable or framed as women being limited by men in poor paying positions. They didn't recognize much beyond that interpretation because it was very different than what their perspective often was.

[@cristoferwolz-romberger3835]

One of the biggest lessons I have been learning about activism in general is the division between exclusionary and intersectional activism. In a nutshell, exclusionary activism (which can be feminists, disability advocates, racial minority advocates, sex/gender activists, etc.) focuses on what is best for the group in question often by fighting "opposed" groups. While TERFs (Trans-Exclusionary Radical Feminists) are the highest-profile case of this, in the US we get a lot of white feminists excluding black people (especially black men), and other cases include disability advocates policing what counts as a disability, LGB rights advocates (again excluding trans people), racial minority groups opposing each other (In the US, Black vs. Asian and Cuban vs Central American aren't uncommon), and so on. In contrast, intersectional activism focuses on issues that reach across different groups. In the US, this is seen a lot in progressive feminism, which has a history of working closely with African American groups given the seeds of feminism in the US were planted and grown in the Abolitionist movement. I've also seen a growing pro-feminist men's rights movement, advocating for things like parental leave (which supports men who want to stay home as fathers and women who want to work - above and beyond what more traditional maternal leave laws do).

[@anecia1089]

Oh I loooveeee this! And honestly this is why black feminist politics are so important because of the emphasis on how all of our freedom is wrapped up with each other. We really need to interrogate how claiming "feminism" as an identity politic rather than a political commitment causes us to narrow who we listen to and who we identify with. One pushes us to, as you say, talk about things in hypotheticals and how they affect our self-understanding instead of working towards the systemic change needed to improve all of our nuanced experiences.

[@hannahwitton]

100%! Well said!

[@starg0th]

yess!! 100%

[@coralieverhaegen317]

"We've been focusing on the sex part of sex work when we should be focusing on the work part" that clicked something in my brain. Thank you! Really liked how approachable and nuanced this video is 🙌

[@rebeccawiens4224]

Canadian here, it seems like UBI may be on the horizon here. I've watched many videos about it and I think that it could change millions of lives.

[@hannahwitton]

Exciting if it happens!!

[@starg0th]

thank you thank you thank you!! sex workers need rights not rescue. we need feminists to support, listen and collaborate with us.

[@Sekir80]

Not rescue? But I see this video talks a lot about circumstances where rescue is the deal. What I took away is there ARE women who NEED rescue.

[@starg0th]

@@Sekir80 the problem is assuming rescue is the need of everyone. when we use a rescue narrative, both victims and workers are harmed because law enforcement does not take the time to understand what trafficking looks like. rescue only helps those that fit the idea of what trafficking looks like. it doesn’t help those who are perceived to be a sex worker but are actually being abused. only through decriminalization both workers and victims can seek legal action against violence without fearing legal penalties. and again let’s have a reminder that “rescue” to law enforcement means evictions, fines, extortion, arrest and deportation. we are working under a rescue narrative right now and we are telling you it is not working. listen to the people you are trying to protect.

[@Sekir80]

@@starg0th I understand your points! Generalizing that everyone needs rescue is false, I got that. I certainly disagree the "rescue" part as you elaborate in the 2nd paragraph. That's not people would want. As I'm totally new to the topic, I'd need before and after info. Before: So, sex works is illegal. Why? After: Let's make it legal: what happens then? Is the reason made it illegal go away? How? Why? Keep in mind: I'm ignorant, not malignant.

[@vulkanofnocturne]

In your defense Stargoth gave you a 'not all' response when the original post didn't make that condition.

[@trishna_6815]

@Sekir80 we are calling for full decriminalisation, not legalisation. There is a significant difference. Legalisation means monitoring by law enforcement (which ALWAYS means harrassment and abuse of the most vulnerable), names on registers, a two-tiered system of the workers who are and aren't able to meet all the requirements, and punishments for those who can't. Decriminalisation means being treated like any other business- eg, you want to start a lawn mowing business, that is a decriminalised activity, you pay your taxes and run your business. And yes we pay taxes. I live under a partial decrim system and I can assure you, we pay taxes - gst and personal income tax.

[@dian7131]

Thank you for asking for a fact-check and tone-check, I feel like I can trust the video, specially when it’s about a subject that’s usually not understood well enough.

[@samuxan]

"My body, my choice" probably the biggest slogan for feminist. But the choice is remove for any female when it comes to prostitution. And it's the same with the conversation around surrogate pregnancies or pornography. I don't think "real" feminism is compatible with limiting the options of the ones they want to protect.

[@Wutangbabe]

Sex workers still have the power to give or take away consent to their bodies, even after payment. Just because a client has paid, does not mean they get to decide where someone’s boundaries are. Denying sex workers’ powers of consent is dangerous rhetoric, which makes it harder for sex workers to report actual assaults or violence to the police. Please educate yourself.

[@zebedeesummers4413]

where did they disagree with your statement?@@Wutangbabe

[@samuxan]

@kimberley9146 that's exclatly my point. The denial of their ability to consent is one of the main problems surrounding all legislation about this. And the worst part is they do that believing is in the best interest of feminism when is quite the opposite

[@milikoshki]

@@Wutangbabe correction: they *should* have the power to give or take away consent. The reality is many sex workers are incredibly vulnerable to violence and do not have the power to enforce boundaries or protect themselves. It's nice to want to believe that all who do sex work are there under their own free will with protections and agency, but that's simply not true and it's naive to pretend otherwise.

[@bennypika3575]

it is still feminist slogan but the group are not immune to christian women bring their ideology to feminist define and pretend celibacy women hold the pass for feminist.

[@sianthesheep]

I'm glad you highlighted the link between disability and sex work - getting the benefits I needed meant that I haven't had to pursue this, but if I hadn't it really would have been the only accessible way to make enough income within my energy/pain limitations. It's also worth nothing that a lot of the people who pay for sex work are people with disabilities who find it may be their only form of sexual pleasure in a society that refuses to see us as sexy, sexual, people. If you really want less sex work in the world give disabled people financial security and accept we are sexy!!

[@hannahwitton]

Would highly recommend the disability episode of my podcast doing it we put out. Lydia, a disabled sex worker, talks about this and it’s great!

[@jamillahamdi]

About who pays for sex, that's not true at all? Stop making stuff up.

[@RasmusVJS]

@@jamillahamdi I mean, with even just a cursory Google search I've found sources that agree with it, so I hope you've done your research before you make such a claim.

[@jamillahamdi]

@@RasmusVJS Yes. It is well established that there is no specific kind of man who buys sex. Do better research I guess?

[@RasmusVJS]

@@jamillahamdi Well established how? What do you mean by that? Do you have a specific source that has numbers on how large a percentage of able-bodied people use sex worker's services compared to disabled people?

[@trishna_6815]

thanks for this video. i was a pro-nordic model feminist for many years, but having been a sex worker for over 5 years now, my position has obviously changed! this is a really good analysis. i'd also like to add that sex work isn't always just the best/least worst option out of a bunch of crappy ones (except that all work under capitalism is generally pretty crap). getting paid 500-1000 an hour and being able to choose good clients, and only having to work a couple of hours a week to have a decent income is pretty damn good as far as jobs go.

[@johnevans8808]

Being able for sex workers to choose good clients has to be a priority for such workers.

[@zs9652]

If you don't mind me asking: Do you like doing your career/job? Like actually like most of the parts of working your job not including the pay.

[@trishna_6815]

@zs9652 yes. the thing I like the most is working about 5 hrs a week and making about 90k profit last financial year. Of course I am in a privileged position that I don't need ti engage with any potential clients who aren't immediately very respectful (or i can literally tell them to f off if I feel like it). Sure, I find pretty much all men (whether clients or not) to be boring and pointless, but generally they just listen to whatever I have to say (because they mostly have boring lives and/or don't want to 'give away details'). I have gone back to full-time civ work in last couple of months to earn more, and more consistently (I was utterly exhausted the first month back). Being self-employed means income is inconsistent, and there is no sick leave, rec leave, superannuation etc. And with inflation/cost of living the market is getting more saturated, and clients have less spare money. Its a LOT harder to make money for newbies now. I will still do escorting on the side though.

[@trishna_6815]

I would also add that it is impossible in many ways to class all sex workers in one group. The analogy I give is 'office workers'. You could have a bunch of 'office workers' who work in the same building, for the same company. But compare the ceo making a few million a year, the cleaner maki g minimum wage on night shifts without a secure visa, the receptionist who's told it 'wouldn't hurt' to wear shorter skirt and has to be nice to creepy men if they're important, the average wage worker with an awesome boss who let's them work flexible time and have autonomy, the average wage worker with a shitty micro-managing a'hole boss who questions every leave request and criticising every thing they do, the middle manager who does nothing, the middle manager who's totally over-worked and gets no support from senior management, the highly paid freelance consultant, etc etc. These people are all office workers, they all work in the same building, for the same company. But their experiences of work are entirely different, and it would be silly to lump them all in together.

[@trishna_6815]

@zs9652 also, I would point out that no one asks this question of any other job. Are you actually concerned about whether supermarket workers *really* enjoy their job, does an accounts payable clerk *really* enjoy their job? does an insurance assessor really enjoy their job, is it actually empowering? I know very few people who actually enjoy their work - some geologists at my current job really like their rocks, although they are stressed and overworked. I have many friends in community sector (dv, mental health, women in prison, child safety etc) who's jobs are very worthwhile and who are in someways fulfilled by it, but they are also stressed, overworked, burnt out, and often depressed. I know people with high paying jobs who like some aspects of their job, but again are constantly stressed and don't have much time to enjoy their money (that will change when they retire of course).

[@hanneloretaffijn7068]

I really love how your videos have been getting gradually more complex and political over the years that I've been following you. I'm really grateful that you're taking such strong stances and making such profound arguments. I also love your lighthearted videos, but I'm really grateful you don't shy away from topics like these. Your work is so needed. Thank you so much!

[@TinksiehTink]

❤ Make sex work a truly free, informed choice ❤

[@minnaroseahlers2758]

As a Transwoman and longtime follower I love it that you have given such a strong lead to lived experience in the field. Intersectionality is a byword for 4th wave feminism and its links are often missed by older women.

[@umhi9778]

Intersectionality means having the experiences of all female people being taken into consideration, not making feminism focus on female people's historical oppressors if they feel a connection to femininity (which was created to oppress female people)

[@HighWealder]

As an old man, things are very much more open these days. I'm not a prude, but have never paid for sex and I always associated prostitution with terms like dirty, drugs, male violence etc. I remember over 50 years ago I heard that a girl (aka woman) on the edge of our social group had drifted into prostitution and I felt sad for her. Similarly over 40 years ago I was walking through the West End of London and a young mixed race woman tried to solicit me, I felt sad for her, saw her as being exploited, a victim. Having worked abroad in an all male heavy industry, they saw women as a commodity to be bought and even their accounts of casual mutual sexual encounters didn't rate very differently. I don't have any answers.

[@ikorolevna]

Thank you for this video! I've wrote an entire thesis on this topic (from legal and human rights perspective), comparing different ways governments deal with sw and how it affects the human rights situation. I almost never see people on social media getting it accurate and for once I'm satisfied!

[@wascot2910]

I live in Sweden and do not agree with everything she says. I would like to read your thesis, is it public?

[@justme2086]

Hannah I love you. Kind request: when you deal with such a complicated issue, which could easily be a research paper in print, please take longer pauses and speak more slowly. It was really hard for me to process your thoughts and I couldn’t finish the video although I found it extremely interesting as a topic. 😅

[@kerricuthbert1995]

You could always try adjusting the playback speed to 0.75x speed to slow her down a bit!

[@gumdeo]

She speaks really clearly at 0.75.

[@alanwhiplington5504]

A German psychologist I once spoke with had an interesting viewpoint. Women who are not sex workers are nevertheless on part of a broad spectrum of sex work. When they choose a husband they take into account the resources available to him and so to them. Does he have a good job etc? Prostitutes are at the far end of the same spectrum. In the middle are a whole range of possibilities. A man lives and works in town A and spends the weekend in town B with his girlfriend. When he's with her he helps with the shopping bill and the electricity. He buys a pair of shoes for her son by another man. When they have a row she remembers his financial contribution. Is she a girlfriend or a prostitute? This lack of clarity on a continuous spectrum of circumstances and behaviour traditionally causes many women to separate themselves from prostitutes by condemning prostitutes loudly.

[@michaelhaardt5988]

You keep surprising me: First you view RSE from the perspective of children to be educated and now you view sex work from the view of sex workers. Follow that pattern, it is great.

[@tomcavanaugh5237]

One feminist, Julie Burchill, said, "When the sex war is won prostitutes should be shot as collaborators for their terrible betrayal of all women". I've always thought that quote betrayed the true goals of many feminists.

[@gumdeo]

She said the quiet part out loud.

[@jige1225]

These are horrible words. Shame on her.

[@berniethekiwidragon4382]

She's not a feminist. Not really. How is she for women when she wants to kill them?

[@HeidiSholl]

I truly do not understand the "these women are being abused, we should criminalise them" stance. I knew someone in school who was a prostitute at 15, and I never once thought she was a criminal. She had been failed by all of the adults around her, and I hope she's doing well now. Arrests certainly should have been made considering she was a child at the time, but not her. Also, even if she was an adult at the time, I still wouldn't have criminalised her.

[@tangerinetangerine4400]

In Sweden paying for sex is illegal but selling sex is legal, which means that no one is criminalising abused women and girls, they are encouraged to report the abuse and recieve help.

[@wascot2910]

@@tangerinetangerine4400exactly

[@myrrhbear]

This is the first comment on this video that seemed sane to me. Yeah, of course people who are vulnerable, being abused, lacking proper support in their lives, who feel like they need to let strangers use their privates for cash should *not* be punished for this, but rather should be getting very serious support. Absolutely 100%. *However* the tone of this video and most of the comments here suggest that selling one's privates for cash isn't problematic in any way, or a seriously awful thing that happens to vulnerable people without adequate support and care in their lives. This video and the commenters suggest that just because some people say they want to be prostitutes (sterilized as "sex worker") and are "happy" doing so, that this is proof that this is as positive a life choice as anything else, and doesn't harm the individual or the society in any significant ways, and that the solution is therefore that society should normalize and support this "sex work". Don't shame us and harrass us for wanting to sell our vaginas to strangers - just legalize us, normalize us, respect our happy choice to do this, and give us unions and everything will be great for everyone??? It's so insane. It's so painful. I normally appreciate the conversation on this channel, but this video just really makes me sad. How can people be so blind.

[@wascot2910]

@@myrrhbear What do you think about the Nordic model then? Your stance was a bit unclear to me

[@myrrhbear]

@@wascot2910 Hello and hope you're having a good day : ) When I heard about and looked a little bit into the Nordic model I thought it made a lot of sense. I've mentioned it numerous times to people over the past couple of years. I can see that it is an imperfect solution, but I would tend to think that it's still an important step in trying to find a better option than what people have done in the past. It seems to respect that if you have been coerced to sell your body in the most private of ways for cash, that you are the victim, not a criminal, and that you should get every possible caring sort of help to get out of that situation. If you weren't overtly coerced but thought you had no other options, you also should have careing helping to get out, if you want it, and you certainly aren't helped if the police are treating you like a criminial. Keeping it illegal though to be a male or female client makes sense to me, because I think it's damaging for everyone to have a society that views either the selling of use of one's body, or the buying of the use of someone else's body, as if it's okay. We need a boundary. We need it in order to be clear with ourselves that it's NOT a job or "work" the same as any other work. It seems nuts to me that we've gotten such that this even needs to be argued. I feel this sense of discombobulation and cognitive dissonance even to try to explain why I think there's something inherently negative about the selling and buying of use of someone's genitals. How can this not be obvious. I recognize the problems of maintaining that it's illegal to be a client - i.e. that it encourages the client to be shady about seeking a prostitute, which keeps the whole matter in a sketchy and dangerous context. I can see why one might think that making the whole thing legal would ammend this. Perhaps. I can't really know how it would pan out. It just seems problematic in a different way that the discussion has shifted to this absurd idea that there's absolutely nothing inherently wrong with trying to make a living by inviting people to use your privates for cash, and it seems delusional to me that this would ALL be fine and dandy and positive for the prostitute, the client, and the society in which this is happening, if only it was all legal, and had normal rights like any job. I don't know what else to say. I don't know the solution. I would hope for a world where everyone has loving and healthy parents, friends, good education, a supportive community, and through these a very positive and healthy sense of self and self worth and appreciation for every person's inherent and inalienable dignity and inexpressible preciousness and deservedness of caring love, and that everyone's safety should be a given. I would hope that nobody would even think therefore to offer use of their privates and their intimacy for pay, and that nbody would even think of asking another for such use of them. In the meantime I hope we do all we can to care for everyone involved. We're all human beings, and the problems are the shared responsibility of all of us, both in how we got to where we are, and in trying to improve from where we are. I hope that all makes sense. Have a great day.

[@gracelarmee]

This was so informative and I've definitely fallen under the misguided white feminist trope many times and want to do my best to learn about all the ways that movements are intersectional and how supporting one thing can support so many others

[@LilyRoseKnits]

As the disabled person who is "well enough" to hold down a job in a doubly disabled relationship, whooaahhh UBI would go a long way. I feel so much pressure to be able to work and to ensure I will keep being able to work, because if I don't then we have no income, nothing to pay the mortgage with, nothing to live off. It's so easy to see how people slip into sex work without having another option, especially those from marginalised groups.

[@noe2005]

I met a lot of sex workers in my previous job (waitress) they were high class sex workers so they got paid a lot and apparently had good security in their clubs. They all talked about how hard the job was and that their objective was to work for five or six years, make a lot of money and leave that life. They didn't like that job, they could choose their clients but at the end of it they didn't know what cojld happen to them or how they were going to be treated. At first they could handle it but many of them started to take drugs to be able to emotionally continue with their job and because they were pressured by the clients. Some of them ended addicted, their attractiveness diminished and had to give bjs for little money to afford the drugs... so... I can't think this is a good career path.

[@myrrhbear]

I'm grateful and relieved to see a sane comment on this video. I normally appreciate the discussion on this youtube channel, but in this case I'm shocked at the confused lack of understanding and the painting a deeply damaging thing in the lives of so many people in our world as though the only problem with it is that it's not adequately normalized by society. It really upsets me. It's obvious to anyone who isn't willfully blind how selling the use of one's privates for cash is going to be damaging to the wellbeing, sense of self, and basic humanity of that person. The government and the law shouldn't further shame or punish those people - instead it should be caringly helping those people out of those situations if they are open ot the help. But pretending there's no harm in it, and it's a healthy, happy lifestyle choice, with no harmful side-effects it crazy, as if the solution is that the society legalize and normalize this. It's obvious that for MOST human beings, this isn't a "choice" someone makes who has a positive sense of self, a loving and support family and community of friends, and a sense of other viable options...and/or if someone does make this choice freely, it's through a broader way that society has degraded their sense of self-respect and a profound lack of understanding about the toll this will take on them over time.

[@pera.j.andersson]

@@myrrhbear Again… "obvious to anyone who isn't willfully blind how selling the use of one's privates for cash is going to be damaging to the wellbeing, sense of self, and basic humanity of that person". Call me willfully blind, if you will, but not listening to people with different experiences is to me rather tone-deaf and dumb. Abigail Mac, Molly Smith, Sophia Giovannitti, Melissa Gira Grant, Lilla Minn, Ariana Small or Liara Roux may not talk for every sex worker or ex-sex worker out there, but they tell something about choice, consent and results from choices. What you think is obvious may not be as obvious for other people. And talking down, as you seem to do, won't make understanding it easier. Helping people making informed decisions and helping their reality to be a better place hasn't hurt no one. Methink.

[@danwylie-sears1134]

The words "decriminalization" and "legalization" are familiar to most people from drug-policy debates, where the meanings are nearly the reverse of what's described here: If a drug is decriminalized, it's still illegal. It's just that the person is subjected to a civil case instead of a criminal one, and the penalty is a fine so it's only illegal for poor people. If a drug is legalized, it becomes legal, just like alcohol and tobacco.

[@davydatwood3158]

Anecdotes are not evidence, but - in Canada, sex work used to be (nominally) legal, and briefly even became functionally legal when the Supreme Court struck down most of the laws surrounding sex work. (Laws that meant people like a driver or a bodyguard or an admin assistant could be charged under "living off the avails of prostitution," a provision meant to target pimping and trafficking.) The government of the time introduced what is essentially the Nordic model in response, making it - for the first time in Canada's entire history - illegal to pay for sex. These changes did make it a lot easier to deal with *actual* pimps, I must concede that - but from conversations with various sex workers I'm acquainted with, also made many other elements of their work much more dangerous. The most common concern appears to be the vastly increased difficulty in screening potential clients, because now those clients have a strong interest in masking their identity even if they *aren't* planning to misbehave in some way. So, I really hope the UK manages to avoid going down this dangerous dead end.

[@RasmusVJS]

After you mentioned the Nordic model for sex work law, I, a Dane, was interested to see what this meant here, and I'd like to share the product of my research. Apparently the only parts of Scandinavia that follow the supposedly "Nordic" model are Sweden and Norway, and I guess Iceland if you count them as Scandinavian (I don't), and Greenland, which is part of the Kingdom of Denmark, but has some laws of its own, including sex work being illegal. In Denmark, sex work has been legal since 1999, but third parties making someone do sex work is illegal, as a set of multiple anti-trafficking laws. To my surprise, back in 2011, there was a coalition of some, but not all, of the left-leaning parties that attempted to get Denmark to follow the Nordic Model, in spite of the fact that 60% of the population were in support of more sex worker rights, but the coalition was a minority, and it ultimately didn't go through. In fact, if I understand correctly, our most popular nationalistic party, of all parties, was attempting to lift some of the anti-trafficking laws for the purpose of sex worker unionizing.

[@upconv]

The fact that sex work exists does not diminish the debate on whether it should exist and its ethical and sociological implications. That said, I'm in favor of its decriminalization.

[@melinatengblad7009]

What was wrong about the nordic model exactly?? In my opinion it’s great, it doesn’t criminalize sex workers but it does criminalize sex buyers. In my mind, sex buyers=criminals, no doubt, should they just get away?? I missed this perspective in this video. 10:33 “Sex workers advocate for full decriminalization” -all sex workers everywhere or which sex workers are you talking about? I’d like to know your source on this please! Thank you for talking about this!

[@jennalove2873]

All SWers everywhere, along with every international SW organisation, Amnesty International, UNAIDS, WHO, Human Rights Watch advocates for the full decriminalisation of SW. What’s wrong with the Nordic Model? Say baking is legal and selling baked goods is legal, but buying baked goods is legal. What happens to bakers?

[@pera.j.andersson]

"sex buyers=criminals", because what? Based upon your account name, you should be able to read Swedish. So maybe you could read some of the articles linked in these two articles: sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Svenska_modellen_kring_prostitution + sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexk%C3%B6pslagen . Vilken annan bransch kriminaliserar (bara) den ena parten i en transaktion?

[@stephanbrunker]

And there is the German model ... first they legalized sex work, then discovered that it then is subject to bureaucracy which lead to a plethora of safety regulations. From a alarm system in every room which is used for sex work, to sanitation regulations up to a second rescue route in case of a fire. And legal protection for the underage populations which required a distance of a kilometer between a brothel and a school, kindergarten or every else where children or youth come together. The effect was that almost all of the (now legal) brothels had to close because they couldn't comply with all the regulations. Which forced the sex workers to work illegally again. Problem solved, sex workers protected. On paper. And they sell that as great success.

[@pera.j.andersson]

"almost all of the (now legal) brothels"? Is that so? You know there was a pandemic of sorts in the meantime?

[@stephanbrunker]

@@pera.j.andersson It is. The closures started long before the pandemic, that was only the final nail in the coffin. You could follow it in the press. The handling in the pandemic was just a follow-up: any other business got money to compensate for the losses but not the brothels or legal sex-workers. Make it legal just to clamp it down legally is the hypocrisy here. I don't doubt that the trade still exist, just it's all illegal now and without any protection from the law.

[@tristanmills4948]

You've managed to articulate a lot of what I've been feeling about this (and other similarly complex issues) for a long time. Let's listen to those experiencing the oppression and hardship. That is how we help improve all our lives, instead of just sweeping the issues under the blanket and ignoring them (which is the preferred middle class way...)

[@foranyonewhoslistening]

So happy to see someone outside the sex worker community speaking on this topic in this way!

[@robo3007]

One misconception I hear a lot is that male sex workers are rare, and male sex workers never make any money.

[@emi_fern]

sooooo glad to have this topic covered on this channel, you crushed it

[@JackieSparv]

I understand that the Nordic model may not work for every country. However, when you're talking about the Nordic model you (or the book you're referring to) make it sound like it doesn't work anywhere. As a swede, I haven't heard this before and I would really like to learn more. Would you mind sharing some of the articles or research that the book it taking their information from?

[@wascot2910]

Boktips på ämnet ”Varat och Varan” av Kajsa ekis Ekman

[@jennalove2873]

It doesn’t work anywhere. Would it work if the baking industry was legal but buying baked goods was illegal?

[@pera.j.andersson]

Du kan läsa ganska mycket i det här ämnet i de här artiklarna: sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Svenska_modellen_kring_prostitution + sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexk%C3%B6pslagen . Betydelsen av ordet "fungera" kan diskuteras, men som en annan i den här tråden noterade: om bagerier var lagliga men köp av bakverk olagligt, hur skulle den branschen fungera?

[@edspace.]

Granted I've never been in sex work most of the sex workers I've met were male so perhaps this isn't much of relevance. Having studied law (which is why I consider myself a libertarian) I can definitely see a lot of the problems with trying to legislate the sex industry since laws are designed with a blanket approach to issues in mind, created from the top down blanket "solution" to problems/blanket "offering" to groups (Mistake v Conflict theory of lawmaking is a pretty long discussion and in this context both function the same) and from what I've seen are made in the hierarchy of power so that even if a police officer is neutrally enforcing the law (criminologists argue over whether this is possible but still) they will inevitably reinforce said hierarchy as the hierarchy inevitably builds laws in its own interest, rarely through malice but more commonly through material self-interest or idealized self-world view (not that these are mutually exclusive) and either way trying to rebuilt the world in its own image as state (especially nation-state) systems often do as they replace God in the moral order of the universe (a move I personally think has more to do with the rise of Capitalism than the Protestant Reformation but I digress). Now its fair to say that I am a Moderate; worker ownership of the means of production, decentralization of political authority to individuals and communities linked all the way up to the human family through Mutual Assistance, socialization of public goods and social policy based around upholding and advancing the dignity of all human life (organized at the grassroots level), decentralization of the means of coercion and community based mechanisms of social protection organized at the grass level. So I hope everyone is having a nice day.

[@bethany7247]

I work in counter-trafficking and I believe in the decriminalization of sex work so that their safety falls under the law. I appreciate that you talk about the prevalence of violence and trafficking in the sex industry. I disagree with a couple or your points. Firstly, sex trafficking does not always equal migration across borders or even a change in location. In overly simplified terms, it is a combination of coercion and entrapment. Additionally, in the US, any person under 18 engaged in sex work (even voluntarily) are considered victims of sex trafficking. Also, social services are fantastic and necessary, but law enforcement can in no way be left out of the equation. We can say that law enforcement has been problematic and needs improvement, but freeing people from sex trafficking or children exploited in online and/or commercial sex can ONLY be handled through the police and larger organizations such as the FBI. You discredit the challenging work that they do all of the time. Focus should be on policy, law, and trafficking prevention efforts. Much love and respect for your channel- Bethany

[@allanjmcpherson]

As I understand it, one other model is legalization, which is different from decriminalization. Decriminalization simply the legal barriers to safe sex work, whereas legalization entails additional regulations and requirements on sex workers. Since sex work is often a job of last resort, it's my understanding that most sex workers favor decriminalization over legalization since legalization leaves sex work *illegal* for the most vulnerable.

[@danniemorris7423]

I love the suggestion of UBI! there has been sooo much research on how successful UBI has been in every test that has ever been run- UBI would be such an amazing step in the right direction for so many reasons.

[@lilacsmoon9067]

you probably wont see this comment so i feel ok getting a little parasocial, but like. you've been one of my fave youtubers since Do I Look Like A Slut, one of the few ones whose content has kept entertaining and educating me through all the years & the shifts in taste & format both on your end as a creator and mine as a 'consumer' (ew, but like, how else to capture the gigworkification of art that is patreon?). so, on a personal note, as someone who was unsurprised to see my fave cishet middle class sex educator be a little ignorant about my work, seeing you hold up a good comrade's work and quote from it was VeRy MeAnInGfUl. but most importantly, thank you for this contribution on the discussion. often enough we're so pleased with ourselves for having grown and changed that we prefer to not dwell on where we started from, and pretend we were born culturally competent and sociopolitically aware. thank you for listening to us, of course, and for sharing our books, but also for providing a graceful demonstration on how to navigate this situation to your three quarter mil followers. keep up the great work and have a happy hannukkah, when it comes :)

[@sensitiveissues3671]

As mentioned in the video the most important change would be for women and men to have equal education and employment opportunities and equal pay for the same work.

[@Dalek194]

Always been a big fan of yours + really pleased to see you growing into a voice advocating for sex workers from their own perspectives. Thanks for always being willing to listen & learn!

[@kellycavolo5807]

I read that book a few years ago and it had such a big impact on my own thoughts about sex work. I'm so happy you got a chance to read it!

[@raquellastra3583]

To me the eye opening moment was listening to prostitutes argue how the only part of their lives I could relate to as a white girl was the sex part, I could only wonder how disgusting itd be to me to have sex with an old man, never had I try to imagine what itd be like to run from the police, have my kids taken from me, lack housing... which are the actual problems that those women are fixing with prostitution, take that from them and theyre back to the most vulnerable situation

[@nailpolishlover99]

This is one of my favourite videos you’ve made. Thank you! ❤️

[@emilymeyerding3392]

...and to add a final sentence onto your conclusion - if we had a more just world with a just economy, the only people who did sex work would be the few who really wanted to do sex work... in the same way that the few who really wanted to be homeless would be homeless....

[@pera.j.andersson]

Agree. The first thing to outlaw is poverty. Not the things you do to avoid being poor.

[@robertmccann9631]

Great video 📹 👍 the money podcast episode is great.

[@hannahwitton]

Thanks!!

[@dark_baphomet]

I was surprise that women working as sex workers are prevented from working in groups for safety for legal reasons, whereas if you work alone it increases your risk drastically if horrible clients doing horrible things, and the raids also target the sex workers without helping them in any way, just see in them as criminals and taking away a place where they feel safer than they would working alone and making that a criminal offence to be more safe and less likely to be killed, ive watched lots of docuseries on it to find out more about it, it just seems broken to me and yeah some people have no better choice, like if you’re homeless for instance, what else can you do, there’s no real help for you to get out of that other than things that are illegal, and then you’re seen as a criminal for having no other options or at least not ones that are possible or you could live off of. I really want to create homeless pods with a bed and shower and toiletries so that people have some shelter to stay in where they can start to get their life back, because being homeless is terrifying because it seems impossible to get out of once you’re there, and most of us aren’t that far away from it happening to us, I don’t understand the hatred for homeless people and people that are struggling, just help people ffs

[@joncooke158]

I am dombfounded at what sounds like the argument that, excessive regulations that prevent people from earning money through sex work, or through selling their labor in general, and government subsidies that force certain choices on the time and energy of people who might otherwise not be able to work within those excessive regulations, is somehow a failing of capitalism.

[@naomi.elizabeth_]

How have I not seen this before? This is brilliant!

[@bunnyslittlespace9811]

just wanted to add that prostitute is considered a slur by many full service sex workers and the correct terms to use are full service sex work and full service sex worker and you should only use the term prostitute if a full service sex worker says it's ok to use for them and in the context of this video, when you're referring to the same of a book.

[@cleolangsford1006]

This was so interesting! One question that comes to mind, re the point about whether sex work and trafficking are the same: could we say that sex work is not trafficking the same way that we say non-consensual sex isn’t sex? In my mind that honors both those who are happy with their jobs, and those who are having their rights violated, separately. Though, I have no experience with this, so that’s just what came to mind for me!

[@jamillahamdi]

You don't think taking away the sexual part from sexual abuse is kind of downplaying it, and making it sound like any type of abuse? Or maybe it's "prude" of me to think it's generally worse.

[@cleolangsford1006]

@@jamillahamdi i don’t necessarily think any type of abuse should be compared to any other. I’d just say sexual abuse or nonconsensual sex isn’t sex, precisely because of the lack of consent. Otherwise, it’s like saying nonconsensual sex counts as a legitimate and acceptable type of sex. I think we’re both saying it’s unacceptable, from different directions 😅

[@jamillahamdi]

@@cleolangsford1006 I would usually agree that you can’t rank different types of abuse, but I guess not in this case. Especially not when talking about feminism. Only if you see sex as something inherently positive, which I don’t think aligns with being okay with someone buying sex or saying it’s just a job like any else.

[@pera.j.andersson]

@@jamillahamdi My personal belief is that things like sex or love can be very positive experiences. But they are not without fault. You can become compulsive, use others without respect or behaving self-destructively. I think both sex and love are great motivators, but what kind of love you nurture, or what kind of sex you have and in what circumstances, can change things a lot. One importaint thing, in my book, is to talk about sex and love as two separate entities. The can be great together, but they do not have to include one another. Rubbing body parts together can simply feel nice, and having money as part of the equation doesn't have to be a deal-braker. We all need money, and until recently in a lot of countries a marriage was probably a pretty unsafe institution when it comes to sex. My two cents.

[@Pilki01]

I love watching these videos so much. I always come away with a far more developed understanding of the topic ❤

[@emeliabrashers-xs3be]

Thank you so much for this. Nothing has been more painful for me than my fellow women rejecting, looking down, on me and viewing me as disgusting simply because of a career I choose and enjoy. It’s a very lonely feeling.

[@merelymayhem]

great video, very well explained there's a push for the nordic model in other places as well

[@sumdude4281]

Excellent video. Came to roll my eyes and walked away with my respect. Good job. We're all being extorted as workers. We all have to debase ourselves in some crummy job to get access to resources or through food stamps etc. Sex work is no more debasing than cleaning toilets (I have experience in the latter not the former). In Thailand women work the sex industry, save money and go start businesses. It's a job like any other job that is accessible, pays well, and allows upper mobility in a relatively safe environment. If we want to end sex work we'd have to massively redistribute income.

[@mk_oddity2841]

Thank you for this! Many things that needed to be said.

[@data-dylan]

You couldn't really do UBI without fixing housing scarcity. UBI would end up in lands lords' pockets.

[@mattg6106]

This was very interesting. I have definitely done that pro-sex work empowerment stereotyping before and never really thought about it. Now I definitely want to learn more.

[@artvandelay7236]

Coming from a long time casual John, I'd say if anything really needs to be looked at in a case by case basis, this is it. I say this not only as in sex worker by sex worker, but by each interaction.

[@eva1601]

That's who we should be centering the conversation on and that's what the nordic models does right. It's scary to be a feminist (or just any woman for that matter) and look at "casual Johns" in the face. Because what you see then is just another facet of male violence and "casual Johns" whose brains are so fogged up by power trips that they think they can buy consent and that they are owed not only women's bodies but also intimacy. I don't really know what the solution to exploitation in prostitution is but I am 100% sure that men like you are the problem.

[@mitseraffej5812]

6:10 “ Sex work isn’t inherently more exploitative “. I agree, there are a great number of occupations that are more exploitative and pay less. And there are a great many people trapped in such occupation because that’s all they know and rely on the income to support themselves and their family, myself being a prime example. I am a man nearing retirement age with children still at school, and I have little choice but to drag my sorry arse off to a job I detest.

[@jamesbeemer7855]

Ok Hanna , I hadn’t thought that deep about . The anti prostitution FEMINISTS vs the PRO prostitution feminists . And yes , I assumed they were one and the same . Guess I was wrong . But that explains a lot . The politics is all screwed up about this issue . Because we actually NEED the pro sex worker feminist . She has a lot she can contribute . But imagine if your psychologist was a sex worker . Yes even man psychologist would have a better understanding of how to help . Not just the women .

[@jamesbeemer7855]

Here in the United States , hence the communication decency act regulation . Act 230 . And that was enacted to protect children . When in actuality , it endangers the sex worker . Which might in limited ways endanger the children too . Yes , I see your point .

[@umhi9778]

2:46 women's concerns are material as well, woman's only spaces that are built on safety for female people that are on average wearker than male people and not femininity (which used to oppress female people) or female spaces being alowed to exist at all, women's sports where female people have an equal ability to earn money and win and women's scholarships, shelters, and other resources made to combate female sex based oppression going to female people instead of male people who are their historical oppressors.

[@hansvonlobster1218]

If you really want to understand sex workers, work as one yourself or at least make friends with them.

[@maryelena3937]

Quite unrelated, but probably not, what are your thoughts on surrogacy? I happened to read someone's opinion on maternity, this not being a right rather than a desire after listening to an interview to a trans woman who could simply not be a mother

[@martianpudding9522]

Maybe it's a naive way to look at it but I just figure that if it's legal a morally okay to have consenting sex with someone regardless of how attracted you are to them etc, and it's also okay to give away your money to whomever you like, it should also be legal to do both in the same interaction

[@catsaresocute650]

It's a very naive view, in that it takes two general things, without understanding of the arguments and expirneces that made those and then thinks to be able to form a good jugment. So you are right, it's naive😊

[@giraffee11]

Once you introduce the transaction of money that consent is no longer freely given

[@vallentinac9513]

@@giraffee11 that's simply not true, one still has to consent to the transaction, and also their consent still matters just as in any other situation... it can still be revoked at any moment.

[@bunnyslittlespace9811]

​@@giraffee11incorrect, we are freely giving our consent, it's conditional consent which all consent is. When a client SAs or rapes us, it isn't because of the money element, it's because we aren't protected and they can do it without facing consequences

[@NidusFormicarum]

The consumer can be a victim just as the seller can. Also, there are lots of male prostitutes who say exactly the same thing - that they aren't being listened to. You can't lump all sex workers into the same cathegory.

[@davidhutchinson5233]

As a man I have always thought sex workers were victimized, scapegoated and constantly harassed by both law enforcement and the media. When we should be protecting them society seems to use them for the aforementioned reasons. Holland seems to lead the way here. IMO sex workers should be in a safe area, legal & free from police harassment and finally wholly protected from violence. Add to that access to quality healthcare and we would be on our way. But in idiotic puritanical American I wouldn't look for that anytime soon.

[@technoloverish]

Thanks for discussing this! One of the feminists that I'm friends with, who agrees with me on a lot of stuff, is generally opposed to legalizing sex work, and her main argument is indeed that places that have it have more trafficking. She also feels like there's little-to-no difference between sex trafficking and sex work, and that it's not consensual. I have have a couple points about that to make, and would interested to see if you think they're valid: First of all, if I'm not mistaken, places where sex work is legalized are usually places where it's easier to report such stuff without fear of legal action. In places where it's fully or even partially criminalized, I could easily imagine there being many situations in which sex trafficked people aren't comfortable with disclosing it Secondly, is she right about it not being consensual? Perhaps it isn't perfectly consensual, though I'd argue that it's more of a grey area. For instance, if someone is doing sex work simply or mostly because of being in poverty, I think it's ethnically moderately questionable for a someone to sleep with them under those circumstances. No, it's not assault. For example, people can agree to sex that they personally aren't enthusiastic about simply because they ARE enthusiastic about provide pleasure to their partner. I've heard of asexual people who will sometimes do that. However, it's not the best sexual situation, ethically-speaking. And those situations can probably mitigated in a social democratic society where people have most of their basic needs met for free or for at least a very small price That way, sex work will probably rarelt if ever be done just for survival

[@andre-cmyk]

hannah this is such such a good video.. no words fr

[@rNeyshabur]

Fantastic video!!!👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾

[@meriucria]

There’s a huge topic that’s been left out of the conversation and it’s the money. How too often is the easiest way for women to get large amount of money for a few hours of work. Would a woman choose prostitution over o normal job if it was paid the same? I struggle to answer that question. And if it’s just a job why is it not common option for straight men to prostitute for other men if it’s really ‘just work’. I think this conversation is extremely relevant and i still haven’t found the reason why but even after this video i feel normalization of sex work is not the way to go. Happy to change my mind

[@pera.j.andersson]

Sex work is special. You are very intimate with another person (if you are not into virtual sex work, like cam models, that is), for the exchange of money. Money makes "the world go round", as they say, and "sex sells". So I think it's not likely that the trade will go extinct anytime soon. Why the buyers are mostly men is another interesting question, but historically women have been actively put down when trying to act as sexual agents. Maybe things are beginning to change, seeing as a large percentage of porn consumers are women and the sex shop industry is mostly catering to women. Not to mention the booming erotic romance novel industry. But sex workers will always be a minority, because of the above reasons. Letting them exist and work safely and sanely is another thing.

[@fanboyistransboy5089]

One thing I would say is also that even in an ideal world some forms of sex work would probably still exist. Because some people enjoy having sex and putting labor into doing it well.

[@llywrch7116]

There is a contradiction about the sex industry that keeps many people from discussing it rationally. On one hand, sex is so valued that people are willing to pay for it. However, it is so personal that it is hard for many to understand how a person would sell it. I'll admit that I don't understand how someone would sell sex. Maybe it's just that I'm shy in that regard. Maybe it's something related to the old nature vs. nurture argument: there is a gene that leads men/women to being able to sell sex, or events in a person's upbringing leads a person in that direction. Or maybe it's the same motivation that leads people to pick any given career -- to be an engineer, a politician, or a KZbinr.

[@eline6731]

This was super interesting and educational, thank you so much for making this video!!

[@ronin2963]

At no time have you address the concept of "Healing Work". This is the idea that sex workers provide a therapeutic benefit to their clients. I give you the two examples 1) Full Body Massage 2) The GFE experience. Neither of these needs to involve penetration.

[@thistley_42]

While I appreciate that in the course of the video you talk about the diversity of feminist thought on this, and feminist sex worker perspectives, I found the frequent use of blanket “feminists get a lot wrong about sex work/are anti-sex work” type statements in the title and at the start a bit off putting. As you point out there have always been sex work inclusive feminists and while anti-sex work feminists are a broad group it does seem particularly prevalent in white, middle class feminist circles; so because it came across as if anti-sex work was the assumed feminist position it felt like it reinforced centring this group as the feminist default. If that makes sense? Maybe it’s just that I’ve never been anti-sex work so it just didn’t resonate with me because I was “but I’m a feminist and I’ve never thought that” - though to be clear I know a lot of people do and it is definitely a discussion that needs to be had - it’s just the framing didn’t quite land for me.

[@SylviusTheMad]

No politician who claims to stand with workers can be taken seriously if they don't also stand with sex workers. Sex work is work.

[@INTPMann1957]

Ooh, you're making way too much sense with your suggested fixes. Sadly, legislators will try every single thing other than what you suggest. As you said, "trash fire" indeed.

[@charlotteboys3337]

So here for this video!!

[@bobthecpaontheloose4141]

The root problem with this issue as well as all of those cirumstances that causes any portion of our society to be subjegated to a subservient role to those of "higher" status is that of entitlement - which not only relates to the share of the Earth's resources but also the right to dictate what behavior is acceptable or not for the rest of the world outside of their bias is based upon this entitled mind set. Most of this is hardboilded into, especially, Western cultural values underpinned by their religious beliefs... Excellent presentation!👍

[@Sekir80]

So, sex work is like all the other types of job. Does it suck? Sometimes. Now, I'm curios about the ratios of people hating - meh - loving their jobs, and these ratios to sex work.

[@Mari8i]

I don’t have a problem with sex workers themselves(actually I do think sex work being a crime is harmful as it can lead to the imprisonment of women who don’t even have a choice due to poverty or other reasons)however even you by making this video acknowledge that it is mainly women who are sex workers. By default, when someone thinks of a sex worker they think of a woman providing the services.The problem isn’t that sex work exists, but that sex work is selling women, not sex. If sex work was like any other job, men would probably love it, after all, being a playboy or womaniser and making money and two things that gives men higher social status. Therefore, if sex work was like other jobs, men would be doing it more. Also, if sex work was like other jobs, more experienced people would be doing it for the most money, instead women that are very young or virgins are worth the most, because that’s what most buyers get off on. Sex work often isn’t about selling sex but rather about selling women. I’m not against sex work in general, but under patriarchy it becomes a tool and asking for women to have the right to participate in sex work under patriarchy is asking for men’s right to buy a woman. And therefore sex work can only ethically exist if the patriarchy doesn’t and keeping sex work around is only stalling that as it furthers men’s beliefs that women can be sold and bought, like objects.I’d really like if someone who’s pro sex worker could explain this to me.

[@bunnyslittlespace9811]

We sell a service not our bodies and it's incredibly harmful to push the narrative that we sell our bodies and that sex work is selling us. The term "sex work is work" isn't used to say sex work is the same as every other job, other jobs aren't stigmatised in the same way. The term was coined by a sex worker and it's used to humanise us, historically the idea that sex work isn't work has been used to dehumanise us and contribute to the stigma that harms us. You can't get rid of sex work, attempting to get rid of it harms sex workers because it criminalises our source of income and makes it harder and unsafe for us to work, going after sex work doesn't fix the issues. If we want to make changes, we need to go after the patriarchy, anti sex work laws, the stigma surrounding sex work and capitalism not try to abolish the industry. You are not an ally to sex workers if you think we sell our bodies or push the narrative that our clients are paying for them, the industry doesn't make men view women's bodies as objects, they view them as objects because of the patriarchy. Sex work will always exist, that's why it's important to advocate for decriminalisation and destigmatisation so we can safely work in our industry

[@bunnyslittlespace9811]

It's hard to make money in sex work because it's stigmatised, we can be denied a bank account because of our job, deplatformed, face in person discrimination including being kicked out by landlords because we do sex work, sex work isn't the issue, the stigma and anti sex work laws are. If we decriminalised and destigmatised sex work, it would be easy for people to make money in this industry. Also there are a lot of cis men who do sex work as well as trans men, etc. Civilian (non sex workers) media mostly portray cis women as sex workers and we rarely see other sex workers being portrayed

[@pera.j.andersson]

Does patriarchy exist? Really? Or in the sense that you seem to imply? Giving less options for people is better? Not according to me.

[@b43xoit]

When you speak of "sex work", do you include pimping in that?

[@jennalove2873]

No. Pimps are not SWers.

[@pera.j.andersson]

@@jennalove2873 Now I'm confused. Last time I checked a sex worker was a person working in the sex industry. So what is "sex worker" to you?

[@jennalove2873]

@@pera.j.andersson a person who provides sexual services in exchange for payment of some kind

[@laurasmith2161]

Do you think it’s morally wrong for someone to pay for sex from someone they know is a victim of trafficking?

[@viciouswaffle]

Is it morally wrong to pay them for their work, if you know that they will starve if you do not?

[@MarcLeonbacher-lb2oe]

​@@viciouswaffleIs it morally right to use the work of someone who is forced to do it?

[@orsettomorbido]

A banger of a video!

[@nerdywordynails]

Loving the anti-capitalist energy here!

[@uploadingjess]

I'm curious: did you only talk about WOMEN in sex work on purpose? Of course, this is the biggest group of sex workers (and the issue you wanted to talk about), but maybe a quick note at the beginning would have been useful? About how male sex workers exist as well? (Since you do mention trans sex workers.) Would also be very interesting to hear about the difference in experience, maybe in another video :)

[@wascot2910]

98% of prostitutes are women

[@EayuProuxm]

In basic, a shift away from individual empowerment and towards class analysis in regards to sex work is a better way of framing and discussing this issue.

[@johnconroy3180]

Sex work needs to be legal and safe.

[@ha-bg7qo]

The narrative in this video is actually funny :D The ignorance is mesmerizing

[@guille4659]

What do you mean? I'm trying to inform myself about the topic.

[@alexyssaubrie1606]

Please elaborate

[@pera.j.andersson]

What ignorance? Please inform us uninformed. 🙂

[@simonwinn8757]

Your whole segment on capitalism, had nothing to do with capitalism. All the critiques was on government overreach and limiting services. As a capitalist myself, I would be happy to build a brothel, to allow sex workers to work in groups, hire security to protect sex workers, offer health services, and build a tenement to house sex workers.

[@kunpunko]

🤢🤢

[@jamesbeemer7855]

It’s clear , I don’t know enough about this subject . But the political atmosphere here is definitely different than the U k . We aren’t as free minded about the WORK , as you are . And yes , the focus is on SEX rather than the work , which may not have anything to do with sex at all . Good job lady . And I thank you to those that contributed to your lecture .

[@annaw9687]

This was so interesting, thank you!

[@fgregerfeaxcwfeffece]

It's pretty clear that a UBI would simply be cheaper then what we are currently doing. Just from all the things it makes unnecessary. But it would put too many bureaucrats and lawyer out of work. (It would also be bad for dr+gs and they are currently in a w*r so they need all the support they can get. Go dr+gs! What do you mean we are not oon that side? Why are we behaving like that then?)

[@b-ridge1589]

This is really interesting, I like that comment that its about focussing on the work not the sex, and the comparison to trans issues. I've felt like a bit if a bad femist in the past for feeling uncomfortable about sex work especially when seeing those 'happy hooker' stories you mentioned, but I couldn't quite articulate why and thought perhaps i was a bit behind the times on this matter. But ofcourse the reality is always more complicated that it being 'good' or 'bad' or being for or against. As you say sex work exists and therefore we need to listen to those experiencing it to understand what issues they may be facing.

[@pera.j.andersson]

"happy hooker' stories"? Which are these? I own some dozen books written by sex workers or ex-sex workers. None of them paint a uniformely black or white picture. The "happy worker" scenario (regardless of type of trade) is not my cup of tea.