The only video about fork offset that actually does make sense. Thank you.
@freddelmalrides42674 ай бұрын
this video gives 3 kicks in the ass to those GMBN offset videos
@kimijarisch64713 жыл бұрын
Best Video to offset I've found👌
@snowman22ism2 ай бұрын
So so glad I stumbled upon this video... I need more.. I have been wanting to increase fork travel but know that is going to change the geo on my bike and have been looking for ways to offset the change in fork length so it doesn't affect the climbing ability and to a lesser degree, the handling. I will probably have to watch this again to understand it even better but a video including stem length, and perhaps bar sweep and height and other variables included would be so helpful.
@Mike-vd2qtАй бұрын
Stating how offset increases affect wheel flop is excellent. I was originally thinking more offset, increasing wheelbase, would add stability and increase straight tracking. I've got a 70deg HT angle, and a Fox 34 Stepcast and trying to switch to a carbon fork. The Enve fork can switch from 44 to 52mm offset, the Whisky fork is fixed 51mm offset. Plus, the Enve fork is 10mm shorter in length than the Whisky.
@soulzerosix2 жыл бұрын
Excellent way to visualise steering mechanics! Thanks!
@michaellovric9975 Жыл бұрын
Thanks for the very informative tutorial. I would add that I use longer offset to give me greater clearance for my size 14 feet.
@NearlyFromAfar2 жыл бұрын
Beautifully explained!
@reggieringgoldjr68 Жыл бұрын
That was the Best explanation of Offset I've seen in quite some time Brother, and I really appreciate it. I did feel as though I was back in School on this one, again Great Information........🤝🏾🇺🇸💪🏾
@martinharris5017 Жыл бұрын
Very detailed explanation. In addition to being a mountain biker, i build chopper custom bicycles. And that's where rake and trail angles get VEY interesting! Quite a juggling act if one wants a radically long-forked and raked out bike to be safe and stable. Thanks for the video.
@blayzeashurst3928 Жыл бұрын
Amazing video that clarified many things for me. I do have some further questions though. 1. Why is too much trail combatted by adding an offset instead of reducing the headtube angle? 2.Will you make a video on the whipple model of the bicycle, or any model that attempts to mathematically determine the motion and stability of a bike using classical physics? Thanks for your time.
@ilyapo28 күн бұрын
Спасибо братан, я собираюсь покупать новую вилку и хотел бы сделать управление более резким, думал что чем меньше рейк тем резче управление, а оказывается наоборот. Спасибо еще раз!
@jsb14183 жыл бұрын
great info and great explanation.
@rocheuro3 ай бұрын
that's why I really liked my 72* head tube angle on my XC MTB back in 2017.. 2018. that angle was just almost perfect. of course.. for cross country bikes. for enduro or trail it's usually 68.. 67 66* for head tube angle.
@snowman22ism2 ай бұрын
enduro is more like 64, 63 now and my trail bike is 65.. lol... They keep making things slacker and slacker. I wanna find that perfect mix of a great climber but also a great descender... My Norco Fluid FS 1 is really close but only has 140mm of fork travel and I would like something like 160mm.
@rocheuro2 ай бұрын
@@snowman22ism true I'm not in Enduro. No trails or hills in my flat area in middle Poland. But yeah 64 in Enduro is more like a standard nowadays. XC is going a bit too crazy with 67 in my personal opinion.
@ClaudiusSchmitt3 ай бұрын
Thank you!!!
@markthomasson50773 ай бұрын
A vertical stem is actually best, with zero flop. Mike Burrows put together a bike that was fully adjustable to check this. Interestingly BMW have done the same. Of course then the handlebars are out of reach, so you need a remote linkage. Historically the reason why we have inclined stems is to get the bars close to the rider. A Penny farthing has a vertical stem.
@teddgram2 жыл бұрын
This video helped a lot. Thank you.
@zazugee Жыл бұрын
the flop is a major characteristic in motorcycle handling at low speed, in rough terrain, the handlebar get stuck or almost impossible to move if you stall the engine.
@VeldboerMike3 жыл бұрын
This is great information! Thank you
@petedog95812 жыл бұрын
I don't hit double gaps and ride mostly in terrain with techy climbs and short steep descents. I ride a 2013 Stumpy 29" with a 51 mm offset. It is a great climber and has very precise steering with a 10mm rise 720mm bars. It never feels unstable on gnarley downhills, but I am not on extended ones, like in serious mountains. That would be the only reason I could think to switch to a longer, slacker bike.
@dan23044 ай бұрын
Excellent explanation, but needs more detail on riding characteristics for different purpose bikes. Another issue l have with my big feet is foot wheel overlap on road race style bikes.
@normanmadden Жыл бұрын
If your bike is too slack, you can now get angled headsets, that change the bikes head tube angle.
@Mudncheese2 жыл бұрын
Well, despite of all the numbers and their affect in rear world, anyone can choose between different offset forks considering the market value too. I'm representing people that don't notice differences between those two offsets. 51mm isn't in "fashion" so you can have a great fork at a discount price. But probably it will be more difficult to sell It afterwards. Give and take.
@shieldmaidenbikes7712 жыл бұрын
I agree. Low offset is all the rage these days. Although, I've been wanting to do an update to this video to share some more thoughts. But the short version is that differences in mechanical trail are subtle. Many riders (myself included) won't notice a difference. The big thing is the reduction in flop height though. I find that to be very noticeable. I'll always take a higher offset when I can get it.
@JesusRescuesUs3-16 Жыл бұрын
Great video and explanation
@Marek_HollandАй бұрын
Sorry for my poor English. The current Chisel frame is, as you know, more progressive than the previous one. The factory head angle is 68 degrees and the fork offset is 42mm. Many people modify these bikes by installing, among others, a Reba with a 51mm offset, which significantly reduces the trail but slightly increases the wheel base. The bike will probably be more controllable, but won't there be an effect of a steeper head tube on descents, won't this Reba ruin the gains of the new geometry? By transferring the effect of the change in offset and wheel base to the head angle - will it be a change of about 1 degree or rather a less noticeable value?
@iang70072 ай бұрын
good job thanks :)
@parkinkevin7 ай бұрын
Great Video
@DaBinChe2 жыл бұрын
Great video, best explanation and only one that mentions flop. So what about weight distribution from offset? Does it make much if any difference? Shorter offset gets front wheel closer to rider putting more weight on the front wheel. Changing center of gravity slightly forward and gives a little more traction up front. Guess it is kinda like stem length not just changes reach but longer one puts more weight on the front tire.
@shieldmaidenbikes7712 жыл бұрын
The differences of weight distribution, wheelbase, front-center and all that are going to be very minor when talking about the fork offset differences. It just doesn't really move the front wheel around that much when compared to everything else. As an example, lets say we go from a 51mm offset, to a 42mm. That's a difference of 9mm. With the head angle of the bike in this video, that means we move the front tire horizontally by only about 8mm. Over a wheelbase of around 1200mm, that's a pretty small change overall. But the changes to the steering geometry and such are much more pronounced. But also for mountain bikes, we typically want to do the opposite of bringing the center of gravity forward. That's why bikes are getting longer and longer, slacker head angles, etc. Increasing the front-center of the bike has many more positive stability benefits off-road than the slightly increased traction of a forward CG.
@paologobbo Жыл бұрын
@@shieldmaidenbikes771 Thanks for your interesting video. Reducing the offset from 51 to 42 doesn't help carry the weight forward, so it improves stability? Traction is more related to the "trail", if I understand. I'm in doubt whether to switch to an offse 42 fork from a 51 on a bike with 65 ° steering .... I don't understand if a variation like this would lead to big differences on the steep and technical.
@markthomasson50773 ай бұрын
The flop force is surely the whole weight resting on the wheel, not just the weight of the wheel above the axis?
@ZEFFERize11 ай бұрын
At higher speeds, it's the gyroscopic effect that takes over increasing stability. You say here it is the castor and I disagree. I do like how you are showing trail as square to the head bearing angle.
@davidchavez812 жыл бұрын
It would be good to calculate a stability factor and add it to the spreadsheet. And for a fun exercise, find out what is the inherently most, and least stable positions of the steering geometry.
@shieldmaidenbikes771 Жыл бұрын
That's something that is in the works. It gets complicated though when you start to figure the effect the contact patch size has. That's something I'll likely get into in a future video!
@erniiaylien2 жыл бұрын
Great video, but one question: the way I understand, offset is taking place at the front hub. With some forks (fox 36 e.g.) you can get different uppers with different rake values (44 and 5xmm if I am not mistaken) so let's say I increase my rake by 10mm would that have the same affect as increasing my offset by 10mm? Thanks a lot regards, markus
@shieldmaidenbikes7712 жыл бұрын
Rake is a different term altogether, and I suspect you are using it incorrectly. It is typically used in place of head angle for motorcycles. For example, a 70 degree head angle is the same thing as 30 degree rake. Just measuring the same angle from the other side, in other words. But to answer your question, it sounds like you are using the terms interchangeably, so the answer would be yes, it is the same.
@PatrykAndrzejewski0Ай бұрын
what effect would have offset of the fork to the head axis
@Beef0121do110 ай бұрын
Will a 51 offset give the bike a longer wheelbase. I'm building a bike and I want a longer wheelbase
@numist2 жыл бұрын
So what geometry are you going with on your custom build? Are you going to try to minimize flop?
@shieldmaidenbikes7712 жыл бұрын
Yes! Minimizing flop is definitely my goal. In fact, with my current bike I've been playing around with a few factors to really dial in things. It's on my video to-do list to talk about all of that. I've also been working on making a follow-up to this video. Learned quite a bit since I made this one. But the short version is minimizing flop is much more important than maximizing the trail number.
@Kumacattv Жыл бұрын
Thanks for the video. I'm a roadie but I'm looking at changing a fork out. So was interested in the theory. Quick question, for the trail calculation on your spreadsheet, is it formula the 'mechanical trail' or horizontal trail on the ground? Thanks again.
@shieldmaidenbikes771 Жыл бұрын
It's the mechanical trail. i.e, measured perpendicular to the steering axis.
@scotty-sb1403 Жыл бұрын
Great video. I’m looking at a replacement fork but can only seem to get 44mm offset however I’m currently on a 37mm fork. As an average rider, will I notice much difference? Thanks
@nathancouse35962 жыл бұрын
Can we assume longer offset would essentially make the wheelbase "shorter" since it makes it more twitchy
@shieldmaidenbikes7712 жыл бұрын
It does make the wheelbase shorter. Technically... But the difference to the wheelbase / front-center is almost negligible with everything else going on. As an example, going from a 44mm offset to a 51mm is a difference of 7mm. When you factor the head angle in, that number gets even smaller. That's only a percent or two of change to the wheelbase. But the changes to the steering 'handling' and feel are much greater. (and worth it in most cases) I've been playing around with some stuff lately and would like to expand on this video. There's a lot more going on with the bike as a whole! But I tried to keep this video limited to just the steering aspects. That video(s) should hopefully be soon!
@shieldmaidenbikes7712 жыл бұрын
Actually, now that I think of it, putting a longer offset fork on an existing bike will make the wheelbase longer. Got it mixed up in my head. But yeah, the changes to the wheelbase are very small.
@jckdnls92922 жыл бұрын
Tried diff offsets . Diff fork lengths... they are all the same. Either didn't notice any difference or anything I didn't get use to after 100 meters of trail..and then it was back to business.
@mjojrjr62313 жыл бұрын
I wonder what's the best offset for my Marin San Quintin 1. It has a 65 headtube angle with 47mm fork offset atm. Will 51mm offset be okay?
@shieldmaidenbikes7713 жыл бұрын
51mm offset will be fine. The differences will ultimately be pretty subtle. It really just depends on how 'sensitive' you are to changes like that (a lot of riders will never really be able to tell the difference) and of course what you're looking for in the bike. If I had to guess, you're probably just using the bike for general 'trail' riding, and not just all-out smashing the rough stuff. 51mm offset is what I would run in that case.
@mjojrjr62313 жыл бұрын
@@shieldmaidenbikes771 you're probably right Mate, thanks for the detailed information. Very much appreciated. 👍
@michaelguy7168 Жыл бұрын
Is there an optimum trail & flop? I have an early Levo that I have converted to a mullet, I am looking to replace my fork. My bike came with a 51mm offset fork and I am having a hard time finding the fork I want that comes in 51 (most are 44). I am concerned that I have already slackened head angle with 29er on front, I am also wanting to upgrade to a longer travel fork (150 to 170). Is there a way I can figure the head angle with the longer travel fork? The more I learn about bike geometry the more I feel like I might be making my handling worse.
@shieldmaidenbikes771 Жыл бұрын
You can calculate the change in head angle with a little trigonometry. You will just have to know the wheelbase, existing head angle, and then the old & new fork dimensions. If you can draw it up it CAD it makes it very easy. That's usually what I do. But I would also agree, mullet-ing a bike and THEN adding a longer fork is going to change basically all of the geometry of the bike.
@augustoespinal57 Жыл бұрын
My bike have 51 mm offset fork its really hard to handle specially on technical trails
@EnriqueHernandez-yv7oq3 жыл бұрын
I have watched how rider's fall over a simple flop , and lost there Handel's..
@Noscrap909 Жыл бұрын
Can’t have high trail and low flop simultaneously
@dam10419602 жыл бұрын
It seems that the middle ground is the best. Like the 27.5 wheel gives you the best of the 26 wheel and the 29er. And as you said in this video just 26 is better for some types of things as well the 29er. A-10 vs F22 You buy what you need it to do. Thank you for your time and effort in making this video. 💯🇺🇲👍🚲🦺🧰🔧🪒⚙
@shieldmaidenbikes7712 жыл бұрын
The wheel size is a variable when calculating the Trail and Flop numbers, but it's important to note the trail and flop are what really give the steering and handling characteristics. Not the wheel size. In other words, if had a 29" bike, and a 26" bike with identical trail & flop numbers, they would handle very similarly. So similar that most riders may not even notice.