What GenZs Think Of Software Engineering

[@UrsaFrank]

A survey featuring only 40ish people from around the world, from completely different cultures, with completely different backgrounds is quite frankely impossible for me to trust as a reprisentation of an entire generation of people. You would need thousands of respondents MINIMUM for me to even start to take this seriously

[@CottidaeSEA]

In order to get a good idea you'd need at least a thousand from each represented country, because the risk of statistical error is just too great. You'd also get a lot more insight into what the opinion is in different countries which would also give a more clear picture of the situation. If one country overwhelmingly responds negatively it can skew everything and you might make the wrong conclusion as a result, because that is likely to be a country-related issue and not actually the subject at hand. For the sake of learning it would also reveal another subject to look into, why one country would have that negative opinion. There's so much to learn from statistics if used correctly, so it's sad when it's not.

[@alexthekunz]

Yeah, this is definitely not a definitive answer about what a generation thinks. But no survey would be. It's impossible to get a complete understanding without perfect sampling and perfect response rates, both impossible at this scale. Having a sample of thousands would probably just give false confidence in your results (aka high statistical power), when that sample is unlikely to be representative of every potential respondent out there. So for a survey as informal as this one, the small sample size should be fine. Just take it with a grain of salt.

[@skipnik]

@@CottidaeSEA prime could probably make such survey

[@justinallen4903]

Gen zers are not 40. Early millenials are in their early 40s.

[@LA-dd3pn]

Why even the need to point this out? Obviously what you said is true.

[@andrewclarke8163]

Here's what I want out of docs when looking at a new project: - Tell my what your tech stack is, and what each piece does (high level) - Show me the high-level structure - Tell me where the code's entry point is if it's not obvious. - Show me how I can get it running locally if possible. I can usually figure out the rest from there, but I *really* don't want to waste time figuring out those parts.

[@SimonLacey-MySleekDesigns]

That should be the case at every job. I worked for a company a few years ago where the dev guy was a complete tool. He wouldn't show me how the stack worked at all. He got let go.

[@GrizikYugno-ku2zs]

Docs: can't live with 'em, can't live without 'em.

[@cryam6428]

Docs that need updating as soon as your hands touched the keyboard? Waste of time. Explain what the hell the point of the product/library is and how your supposed to use/configure it? Support and QA thanks you. Serve as an investigation of tech debt? Mid. Good for t-shirt sizing the tasks but letting developers just learn trial by fire and actually write code is better. Remind you how to do some annual chore that's outside of your normal duties? Future you thanks you. Onboard new people faster? Evergreen unless you purposely change your stack? Critical. Can hand to someone and say 'read this before asking me the same question for the 12th time'? Your stress and coffee addiction will improve.

[@NukeWalker]

@@cryam6428 If your docs need massive updates in its high-level overview section the moment you make changes - then your product has zero consistency and is poorly designed.

[@PixelThorn]

Hear! Hear!

[@Sturdy_Penguin]

Hey Prime! I'm one of those bootcamp schmucks with 20k in debt knife-fighting former Amazon employees for entry level positions and wanted to say thanks for your videos cheering me up and getting my mind back into coding! Thanks to you, I'm learning C and taking Harvard's CS50 course to actually know what a register is and already getting linker error migraines so I'm not just a useless web dev drone and actually having fun for the first time in months! Once I can appreciate C-wizardry I'm picking up GoLang and planning out some projects while sending out my ATS-optimized CV to anyone with a pulse and selling my soul on LinkedIn.

[@7th_CAV_Trooper]

Keep at it. Having that deep comp sci knowledge will set you apart. But remember, coding is a forever journey. I'm 30 years deep into this industry and I learn something new every day. Now I'm off to learn what an ATS-optimized CV is.

[@AmandaVieiraMamaesouCult]

Bro, learning C is awesome. I was like you past year and got my entry level job, and a teaching gig to add more money.

[@Eggs-n-Jakey]

there's a cpu simulator you can download, then you can add assembly, and see how loops and other things work with registry's and program counter and bla bla bla, it's actually kind of cool, and ya maybe learn to do a while loop in assembly, I think it'll "register" fairly quickly hehe

[@aboxintheblack9530]

I’m currently in web dev and plan to pivot to C in the same way.

[@tanner0397]

I'm a Gen Z data platform engineer that's been building a large data lakehouse for the last 5 years. My largest frustration at my organization is the clear lack of requirements from product and management. I've had to design our entire architecture from scratch with no requirements after begging for them and getting nothing. Then after things are deployed, products comes and cries that it doesn't meet our customer expectations and we need to refactor. Having to redo work constantly from poor requirements makes me want to rip my hair out, and had driven me to extreme burnout to meet the deadlines. I always question if I'm in the right industry, everyone I've talked to makes it seem like this is just a continuous problem everywhere.

[@ob4796]

Are you me? Yes that is the industry :) Some people say the term "requirements" is inherently misleading because most PM's don't have the faintest idea of what is required, so at best you have to frame things as "needs" and those are often only exposed after you ship the wrong thing

[@PadillaJosh]

Been coding for about 14yrs now been doing it professionally for close to 11yrs. I would say, you are never going to have the exact requirements for anything, and that its good that you voice your concerns upfront. As crappy as the situation is, take a step back and look at the tremendous amount of insight and experience you have gained. Insight, experience and understanding that you will take to your next role. Don't give up keep trucking, no job is perfect no situation is ever really a straight line. Best thing I've learned after all these years is don't beat your self up don't over stress. If things get too bad, all that experience you have gained from this position will help you in landing your next big role.

[@DannoHung]

I’ve been doing data engineering for more than 15 years. Organization having no idea what they really need is common. Have you heard of “Exploratory Data Analysis”? Basically it means slapping datasets together in something with a REPL (or a notebook). What they mostly need are tools to let them do EDA and then they will try to quickly turn that into a something production grade, ignorant of any steps necessary to validate the sources or process. If this bothers you a lot, you might want to look at a different line of expertise. It’s inescapable because it is intrinsic to the business’s need to be reactive to emerging questions.

[@georgehelyar]

Proper agile helps with this. You do something small, quickly, and ask for feedback immediately. It's all about small course corrections to make sure you build the right thing. (It's not about estimation or meetings or sprints etc)

[@KevinLyda]

"My largest frustration at my organization is the clear lack of requirements from product and management." I've been doing software development for 30 years. Eventually you just realise you're never going to get these things.

[@schtormm]

damn, Prime out here making longer videos than most of the podcasts I listen to

[@AnonymousAccount514]

A nerd Is a nerd, regardless when they were born

[@natescode]

Amen 🤓

[@NTbooze]

🤓👆 he's right you know

[@DylanMatthewTurner]

And a terminal is a terminal, that's what I say

[@Asto508]

The first rule of the tautology club...

[@AnonymousAccount514]

@@Asto508 even in this context?

[@thesilverbot9439]

I believe "work with purpose" is less about oneself and more about the work. They want to work on actual projects that bear fruit. GenZ may just hate wasting time.

[@ryoukaip]

literally this

[@dominikvonlavante6113]

In my +20 years of working software engineering, I have had hit and miss with team leaders and CTOs, but with only one exception, middle management has been filled with utterly terrible toxic persons who have mastered the 48 laws of power. And they thoroughly enjoy flexing that power muscle.

[@OzzyTheGiant]

If AI ever becomes as "good" as people hype it up to be, it's more than likely gonna replace THOSE people, not the low end devs

[@peteromano9356]

Exact same experience here. Applies to all office culture/jobs too. I Think these are also the "I had 16 meetings yesterday" :pats themselves on the back: people

[@IrrationalDelusion]

@@OzzyTheGiantNo way. AI isn’t going to replicate compassion and emotion to command you, at least not yet.

[@julia-sg7bn]

Prime is a great teacher. Thanks for all that ya do. 🔥

[@happygofishing]

Archlinux is bussin fr fr no cap.

[@shroomer3867]

Based

[@derek123wil0]

​@kennyfully88ubuntu unironically based

[@coolbugfacts1234]

linux is like if they rewrote solaris or BSD except made every feature complete shit

[@JohnDoe-np7do]

​@@coolbugfacts1234at least it aint freeBSD 🤷‍♂️

[@happygofishing]

@@coolbugfacts1234 BSD uses a cuck license.

[@AnnasVirtual]

2 hours???

[@trubessinum]

Better spend that time on something actually useful rather than listening to rants of other people. Most of it is repetitive anyway and provides no new insight.

[@Zzznmop]

He is asmongold with hair

[@tothespace2122]

@@trubessinum I actually quite enjoy these long form videos where I get to see someone think without any preplaned script. You get to see how they think in the moment and learn about the industry and their experiences from someone that has been through stuff. It's almost like having a mentor. Also it's refreshing to see long form content in the sea of short form pointless, attention grabbing content that only makes you stimulated without any deep thinking. If you have some boring task to do this seems like pretty good video to play in the background.

[@y00t00b3r]

@@Zzznmop >> He is asmongold with hair lol, who is getting burned worse with this comment?

[@XDarkGreyX]

​@@trubessinum why are you here again? Just to preach?

[@gsgregory2022]

Lol at the comment about about conversations being about family, kids and houses. Sure some of the chats I have at work about about house/family/adulting things. But I've sat on deployment calls where we chatted about diablo, or had calls turn into chats on star wars movies vs comics, or just personally interesting tech topics.

[@MereAYT]

I have seen discussion limited almost entirely to small talk about sports, kids, vacations, and occasionally really cheesy star wars themed naming of teams or projects. I don't have anything remotely relatable to contribute to the sports, kids, and vacations discussion, and the team naming thing is fun for about five minutes before it gets old.

[@ArturCzajka]

1:16:55 I worked in a project in which the documentation was a required piece of the product. As in - client required to have documentation in order to integrate with the product properly. Having said that, the product was a piece in a workflow defined in a public spec. So out documentation was a mix of repeating parts of the spec with added sprinkles of implementation details, product-specific behaviors, and custom functions, that were not specified by the base document, but still useful.

[@snowman4933]

Yeah we going to sleep with this sleep therapy video

[@italo1aguiar]

Saving to listen it on the way to work tomorrow

[@adcodes]

I don't even watch the videos I just listen to them while reading/coding

[@VillainViran]

Just woke up from it

[@robinmaibals1193]

When anything longer than two minutes is a coma

[@nuclearicebreaker]

OP is what gen Z actually thinks anything more than 2 minutes yap yap yap

[@iXenox]

"Work with purpose" probably means something like doing work not because someone decided you will, but rather because it is necessary. IMO it happens too often that someone makes stupid unreasonable decisions that they don't (or better yet can't) explain. It is really unfulfilling to do meaningless labor that cannot even be rationalized. So it's probably not that they want purpose as much as they want to avoid meaningless work.

[@The_RoboDoc]

I agree with this. I think he misunderstood what was meant by "work with purpose." Not some grand purpose in life etc. But that the work being done has a point and reason to be done. Instead of doing some random busy work that your boss assigned to you because they couldn't come up with anything else for you to actually do, and they can't have an employee doing nothing.

[@monkemode8128]

I think it could be a combo. Do you feel your work has a purpose? I see it as whether you perceive the work as achieving something useful for me personally (like providing money to take care of people you love) or because the work itself feels meaningful (like working on a life-saving technology). Contrast that to say a single person with plenty of savings/investment or someone working on making the ads more intrusive. If anything though I think it goes to show the question lacks clarity.

[@SmartK8]

My advice for young programmers is to look at their few year old code, and wonder at how far you moved on. Now imagine this happens your whole career. That should give you an estimate of how much you probably still don't know. Seeing your old code is the best way to humble yourself.

[@matthewread9001]

I was going through my college freshman code and there was so many times I said “I wouldn’t do this that way, but it’s a good concept to have a reminder for”

[@kuhluhOG]

48:11 A lot of universities force you to use at least one functional programming language at this point (which makes sense, they are supposed to teach a broad amount of knowledge about the field at this is part of it).

[@andrewclarke8163]

"It's always a younger engineer trying to push for better docs" aligns *perfectly* with my personal experience at work. Can't speak to how it is elsewhere though.

[@younghentaii1772]

That’s like every job, that’s the real reason younger people leave jobs

[@btd6vids]

The senior engineers don't push for it because they've tried and failed and given up already. What was said in the video is pretty much true, docs get out of date immediately. It's good to push for process improvements and to try to make things better. But you also have to realize that sometimes the idealized versions of your processes just won't work. Even if the outcome would be beneficial, if the engineers don't want to do it and don't like doing it, it's hard to gain traction. Like, let's say for the docs example, maybe you think you can get this to work if you set a standard that any feature or infrastructure changes to Service X require updating your docs for new hires. That sounds great, but what might happen is the engineers are on top of all that for a few months and then interest drops off. Then you're back where you started. That doesn't mean you shouldn't try - you should. But only a few people are motivated to keep trying that stuff 5 years down the line, and that's why you may not see senior engineers pushing for process improvements as much.

[@AmandaVieiraMamaesouCult]

​@@btd6vidsthere's quite a few mileage between updating docs and having ideal documentation

[@jamess.2491]

@@btd6vids If you don't have one person per team whose job is to write and update documentation, it will always fall behind.

[@andythedishwasher1117]

I'm with you on the separation of back and front. They're separate thought paradigms that need a lingua franca like json or something else that does its job, but they don't seem to like trying to be the same thing.

[@Akronymus_]

I am on the side of: Make the frontend as simple as reasonable. You don't need to render html with JS. Just serve the html directly.

[@lazymass]

​@@Akronymus_ rendering whole HTML is slow and inefficient, both on server and on client. So... No.

[@civilroman]

​@@Akronymus_ as much as I hate the current front-end JS ecosystem, "just serve HTML directly" becomes incredibly inefficient and complicated with anything beyond basic websites. There are a lot of React apps out that have no business being a React app though.

[@huge_letters]

wdym "im with you"? Prime is very pro-htmx which is pretty much anti-SoC

[@huge_letters]

@@lazymass most of you server time is not spent parsing strings - whether you serve json which client turns into a view or you serve html with the view itself will not matter much for performance. string interpolation is not a bottleneck

[@mihainita5325]

I worked at Netflix for 2 years, 13 years ago. Same (lack) of introduction/orientation back then. Nice to know nothing changed ;-)

[@robinheyer708]

I re-installed my IDE about a month ago. Had all my extensions installed except Codeium and since that installation is a bit longer I decided to leave it until after I finished writing the code I was working on. Next time I checked my watch was four hours later. It occurred to me that I hadn't been in the zone since a few weeks after getting a copilot installed. I decided to just forget about it.

[@denovo3949]

We see Prime is Killing it as a professional streamer. 🔥Love seeing people succeed. Very nice ;)

[@7th_CAV_Trooper]

I'm a 55 yo GenX'r who never misses a Primeagen drop. None of my GenX colleagues are tech KZbin aware.

[@peterbelanger4094]

I'm 54. technical gen X has always been somewhat of a rare creature. We are the neanderthals of the tech world, our initial online socialization was dialup bbs, and by the time social media was even a thing, many of us were to old to even understand the world of millennials who had replaced them. Anyway, a lot of us still embrace the physical world and only have minimal involvement in any social media. We didn't grow up in chat rooms, we grew up in arcades. And if you were a gen x who ultimately found a career in software engineering, the social circles were always rather small. We were outskirts then, and we are still on the outskirts. Gen X has serious middle child syndrome. A lot of Z's think we're boomers. ....LOL, if they really knew how X felt about boomers, don't get me started.

[@7th_CAV_Trooper]

@@peterbelanger4094 to Gen z, anyone over 30 is a boomer. Lol.

[@andiuptown1711]

@@7th_CAV_Trooper*…I think you’re confusing us with alpha*

[@7th_CAV_Trooper]

@@andiuptown1711 I might be.

[@7th_CAV_Trooper]

@@andiuptown1711 get off my lawn, you young whippersnapper. :D

[@johnrobinson2504]

The amount of advice in this video that is immediately applicable to my current position in life is NUTS

[@j-p-d-e-v]

The paid dark mode 😂😂😂

[@Oysteims]

Good docs that are outdated are still orders of magnitude better than no documentation. With good outdated high-level implementation documents it instantly reveals *how* the previous engineer(s) where approaching the problem, and *what* their solution was. It also puts you halfway into the race instead of you having to spend time just searching for the starting-line. In my experience, engineers who only develop and never maintain *other* *peoples* *work* tend to have strong opinions about self-documenting code, and documentation being redundant.

[@Nerdimo]

On this 1:00:56 . I work at a company with a flat organizational hierarchy, and I agree it’s easier to talk to those who are more senior (sometimes it’s hard to even tell they’re senior because they’re younger) and engage in environments that typical organization hierarchies wouldn’t allow. This is one anecdote, but i believe it helps the company progress because engineers don’t shy away from learning opportunities because someone is senior.

[@TheFoyer13]

You nail it every time, good takes

[@TheExileFox]

Regarding docs: i hate it when the only docs that exist are doxygen - because the doxygen docs are often lazy, minimal and generally less helpful than straight-up reading the source code directly. Also doxygen sucks because dark reader and etc struggle with it at best and usually do not work at because of bad styling choices.

[@chri-k]

Ah yes, i love looking through 50 empty documentation entries only to find out that the actually documented one has a confusing name because doxygen thinks C is C++.

[@jamess.2491]

Agree and disagree; doxygen/sphinx/etc. can be really good if used well. I'd argue better than traditional markdown/confluence documentation. But yeah bad doxygen is fucking awful.

[@enginerdy]

7:00 “desire not to be underestimated” = “desire to be respected”

[@TurtleKwitty]

"Try starting you only need to get that first 5 minutes" You're not wrong but also, at least for me, I absolutely need a side project in a entirely different style than my day job. When I was doing low level c++ for payment machines my side project was doing a graphics framework for lil game stuff in a very high level way in js. Now that my day job is js webapp tooling my side project is prog lang in ocaml to offset all the issues with shitty typing in ts and hopefully eventually startusing my own lang for side projects haha Making it something with a totally different vibe helps hobby projects not feel like doing more work despite being transferable skills

[@chri-k]

the "create language for future sideprojects" sideproject turns out to be more common than i thought

[@TheSoulCrisis]

Great conversation on tech Prime!! 😊

[@JustinasD]

A point about feeling underestimated at the beginning of the video: imagine coming into your first software job and being told you don't know anything about some particular thing and you will have to learn a lot while at the mean time you have created numerous hobby projects using it and figured out at least the basics. But they never ask you about it, they just assume you don't even know what it is because you, for example, don't know a lot about some other thing they deem to be more simple, so automatically you should know nothing about the more complex thing too. I think a situation like this could make someone feel underestimated, even if they know they are a beginner.

[@Sommyie]

1:44:00 Something I've kept with me from a previous company is not letting an email chain, or Slack thread, go on for too long about a topic without an in-person. It's easier, I think, for everyone to communicate IRL vs talking in slack when it comes to a back and forth kind of topic and Zoom makes this possible in the remote world I work in.

[@hennny__8850]

As a young engineer outside of the tech and software development space (although I really enjoy learning how to code and writing shitty python scripts to automate workplace tedium), I really appreciate how this absolute pipeline of wisdom is useful and directly applicable to my own career aspirations. Thanks.

[@voskresenie-]

About your comment as around 44:50 about company loyalty, it's the introduction of the 401k in the '70s that killed company loyalty. It didn't change overnight, but that's what kicked off the change. Previously, people stayed at jobs for decades to receive a pension, but without pensions, it makes more sense to move around and collect raises. The few companies that still have pension plans still have employee loyalty.

[@Astinsan]

well.. judging by the size of code bases these days, who's to blame for the code bloat? 😂

[@jesustyronechrist2330]

Probably one massive part of GenZ: Very few want to be The Primegen. Most don't want to live and breathe programming. They just want a job where they can do interesting stuff and then come home and do NOTHING like that. I personally like that too. I come home, I do not touch a damn terminal, no IDE, no script file, nothing. I keep home and work separated completely so I can switch and nothing bleeds into the other. I don't care about the "never work a day in your life" bull as that just leads to burnout on the thing you love.

[@jefferymuter4659]

I am curious, based on the perspective you give, what you think I should do when I actually do programming for work and my hobby? Seems like you'd recommend me doing something totally different. But for me, you'd be killing me. Id be miserable only programming 40hrs a week. You only really do 10-20 decent hours of programming during the work week. And you don't get the chance to build something fascinating and beautiful. Just doing work tasks. Of course I'd never listen to you. But I think both sides of this argument need to be more open to the other. You would be miserable living my way (programming an extra 20-30 hours a week after work), and id be miserable living your ideal. The world and culture must be accepting of both. I think it is. But its also completely natural for employers, looking to find the best value programmers, to prize the programmers who grind harder than others. Were all just people trying to live free or die fighting for it.

[@ianjcv]

That's more of a personal difference rather than a generational one lmao

[@alpotato6531]

@@ianjcv 100%. All of this GenZ thinks bs just feels like dumb rage bait.

[@assassinduke1]

I work 40h/week, study for university and work on personal projects, all in programming and there is no burnout in sight. You don't get burnout from working more

[@Dipj01]

​@@assassinduke1good for you. Happy slaving

[@TiernanDeFranco]

“Gen alpha what are you 2004? You’re 14?” Incredible

[@kyjo72682]

54:28 No, I already tried this. It doesn't work. At least not for me. Maybe it's my personality type or my projects are too big but when I get into on something I tend to really focus on it and then I don't want to switch back. Either I do one thing or the other. Once I start switching back and forth I get bad results on both sides. I've been pushing for the 1 L&D day per week for many years now, unsuccessfully. We have 1 per quarter now which is better than nothing, I guess, but it's nowhere near enough. And after certain point not even 1 day per week is enough to catch up, as the learning backlog keeps growing.

[@jimmahgee]

I get 3 hours per two weeks. My manager says it’s great, especially for a smaller company. But as far as I’m concerned it’s not good enough for the ‘learning’ part of ‘learning and development’. Barely enough time to focus, and not enough frequency to reinforce and consolidate new ideas.

[@One-qb6yv]

i was just really wondering .. how healthy my relationship is with growth, hard work, achieving more, and being able to give more.. ive always been obsessed with it.. while i live in a medium sized city in a small Balkan country.. culture where LITTERALY 99% of people i know are coasting.. i had 2 years of coasting couse of mental health issues.. and i was constantly beating myself up.. it was burning me inside.. the talk we had about coasting helped me realise its Ok... ty Prime!

[@MereAYT]

My genuine self swears a lot and is basically a living, breathing meme and pop culture reference repository, with a few original jokes thrown in. There is no room for that at work.

[@bobwilkinsonguitar6142]

Prime pumping out a 2 hr video😲

[@johnbruhling8018]

Yeah, the lego sets were always the small ones, friend had the big pirate ship. I did have to Dick Tracy watch and Crossfire.

[@colbr06]

I was tech leading a team for a year and then my manager told me it didn't help my career because half of the team I was leading was using a different technology than my specific career path. That was the first time (about 5 years into my 13 year career so far) that I felt like I was a number instead of a useful member of the team. I do COBOL, I will always work with people who do other technologies since we are essentially a data delivery language.

[@syncplop]

49:16 @ThePrimeTimeagen you just answered your question about Haskell in universities. University should teach how to think about programming not just a tool like python (or worse some kind of proprietary framework). While learning a tool has immediate benefits learning how to think will create better programmers and human beings.

[@timedebtor]

I think that work with purpose is probably a misinterpretation from avoiding work against values. The values of the market lag quite a bit behind the values of the youth. You don't need to have complete purpose from your work, but if your values directly conflict with the type of work that is available it is demoralizing. The diversity of values people carry has been increasing in the information age. Before the information age college was typically the first opportunity to explore a value system that wasn't given to you, now it is a persistent activity of life.

[@tHebUm18]

1:16:40 As a junior dev, I wished for more documentation. As a senior dev, I grew to understand that the documentation I wanted was more due to my lack of ability than need for documentation. Documentation is important, but no documentation will ever be sufficient for a junior dev to not need mentorship that should not be from documentation.

[@zapoyou2]

You need to make your own extensive survey prime.

[@Parker8752]

So, when I went to university ten years ago, in the first year people who had programmed prior to going to university had a shorter amount of time with Java in the first semester because they weren't having to learn basic programming concepts like "what is a loop", so we spent a little bit of time with Haskell as well. This was happening while the absolute beginners were reaching the ability with Java required to handle the programming projects in the second semester. I also learned (and have since forgotten) Prolog because I took a couple of AI modules. While I was doing that, some of my friends were learning Assembly on Raspberry Pi. Universities will often provide opportunities to explore subjects that you might not end up working with in employment, so long as you're also learning what you need to learn in order to get a job once you've graduated.

[@DGPHolyHandgrenade]

Companies most certainly have values. This is the mission statement. I've seen it spelled out as Core Values or Core Values and Beliefs. Usually the things listed in the "About Us" section of a website talks about the values the company holds.

[@smort123]

"Born 2004? What are you? 14?" Oh no prime 😭

[@TheTanglingTreats]

I can relate to some of these and why workplace culture is at the top of my considerations when looking out for a job opportunity. I was down with covid and had to take sick leave but nonetheless I was still called up to 'support' the team from home as they had no one else who knew how to do it. It was a really horrible experience

[@PH4RX]

1:08:52 I think the conclusion misrepresents the actual question. The question wasn’t a broad "What would cause you to quit your job?" but rather phrased it as "You quit your _current_ job. Why?" which elicits issues with the current job. The answers reflect the issues already covered in previous answers (meaningless work, unaligned with values, little challenges). On top all four answers are bundled and presented as "culture" at only 35% representation. That’s less than 9% per answer.

[@AbhinavGunwant]

Why do you leave the first and last character when selecting text?

[@yousafwazir286]

Put this on to go to sleep, thanks.

[@TatharNuar]

1:17:00 You know what's constantly changing and has good docs? Arch.

[@gsgregory2022]

When it comes to things like IDE settings ect. One thing I think more people understand is that you should understand WHY people like it that way, be it older or younger and then take the pieces you like about it and make it yours. That's what I did in welding, and it's what I've done in programming. You should never blindly just do what others have told you, but you should also never blindly not do it. Learn why they do it and then once you understand the purpose tweak it to fit your needs.

[@tmchannel8483]

I've also never related to the "evil manager" trope. Everyone on twitter apparently work for Sauron, toiling in the plains of Gorgoroth. I've only ever had good managers, and coworkers for that matter.

[@plaidchuck]

Anecdotal my dude

[@tmchannel8483]

@@plaidchuck twitter tropes in a nutshell

[@jonfe.darontos]

When do you plan on forking Falcor and adding schema and typegen bindings? The cache management and request wire size seem so much better than GraphQL.

[@actually_it_is_rocket_science]

Been programming since 7 when I found a windows 95 laptop in the trash. I surprise the crap out of people when I'm the go-to for principle engineers for everything from scripting to discussing undefined behavior in c.

[@markmental6665]

People who dont like or want to write docs are crazy, its like making a masterpiece painting and throwing it right in the garbage instead of on the wall

[@maximilian19931]

docs can be replaced with better code comments and cleaner code in general as the long method of short variables is long gone as the compiler/interpreter chooses short values if needed! descriptive variables and well structured functional codepaths and not the mess of jumping through function after function all over the source code. better have code that is a page long than requiring multiple files open just to track the codepath!

[@U_Geek]

Poor Görgli. I have heard Hungarian names mis pronounced so many times on youtube now, it's kinda hilarious every time, like not even close. I love it, english people please never change.

[@send_love]

6:00 Pirate Ship Generation. So true, 😭 but we had the greatest childhood, unironically.

[@FlaviusAspra]

I'm proud of you, you're getting better at reading!

[@rileyfletch]

@kennyfully88 yes

[@FlaviusAspra]

@kennyfully88 yes!

[@josiahsharkey7520]

docs are easy if you do literate programming with something like org and babel because the docs are the code and it turns comments into links to the docs so you can easily make it work with other tools like lsp and debugging because they don't need to know about your docs they only read the source files and follow the link to the docs for you to edit code

[@jonathan2847]

A lot of older people in tech are like tech-debt, people-debt, to make any good change you first need to explain it to them, they are a roadblock to improvement as they fail to maintain an up to date understanding of the field and refuse to accept any change without it being explained to them first and them approving of it.

[@orionh5535]

2 hour video?! How long is the source material?

[@mambusskruj]

15 minutes

[@snowman1185-v]

The purpose is gained by living your life in service to others. Leaving this place better than when you got here.

[@Jabberwockybird]

There are better avenues for that than work. Unless you work for a non-profit org.

[@feolinaresm]

I am not a spring chicken anymore, that is something I NEED to remember for myself in some decades, thank you for such delicious expressions

[@lucaxtshotting2378]

I had a conversation with my superior yesterday. It was very frustating to understand that my work doesnt matter thqt much. And because of that my skills dont either, and without that I can negotiate my conditions. Anyone could do my work or not but it doesnt matter, even if i can do much more

[@trubessinum]

Also what's up with selecting phrases from second-to-last to second character?

[@DonaldTamMisterDee]

He's always been like that haha

[@Whoislorns]

Millennial here. I studied music at a UK conservatoire on a specialist course. I know of 4 people from my year who are now senior devs at large companies. I’m not really sure why that happened but I would guess it’s something to do with being used to repetitive practice.

[@cfossto]

I did the same in Sweden. Now working as senior in SW. It is more lucrative and it is less alone than being a musician. I play my music for fun now, which was not the case when I was playing for money. Lifted my well being to really good levels by switching. In my opinion, music is not a career - it is expression for life. Sure, you can make money but there is very few ways of making it a career. Either you become among 1% of the specialists that can do this or you become either a teacher or a project manager.. All for 5% of the pay of being a programmer.. Now I can fund my own projects. Living the dream.

[@Whoislorns]

@@cfossto I was a teacher for a long time in some very rough schools. I learned resilience. I do think it’s a shame that so many people that have such great qualifications in the arts don’t earn much money. I have to say though that I really do not miss teaching in the weekdays and trying to fill my weekends with awful gigs only to continue falling into debt. Music is definitely a career, though. It’s just not as you say a lucrative career, or even a fulfilling one. SE work won’t see people throwing lit cigarettes at you for telling them to put a cigarette out and if anyone pins me up against a wall they’re getting fired 😂 God bless teachers!

[@jly_dev]

Pensions incentivized loyalty -- switching from pension to 401k put risk/responsibility onto the employee and disincentivized employee loyalty.

[@cpxx9818]

401ks are MUCH better than a pension. especially if you can get a roth rather than a traditional

[@LegalAutomation]

A pension goes bust if an employer goes bankrupt. You willing to gamble your retirement that some future CEO doesn't kill the golden goose, or that the company doesn't become outdated as technology advances? WAAAAY better to have diversity. With a 401k, your retirement isn't tied to one employer, but on the general economy. The economy is diversified.... Your employer is not.

[@TheNeozas]

actually I'm in Canada right now, but I worked in Europe for 15 years and I can say, that US/Canada software development market feels like it was in Europe 15 years ago. Corporate culture is disgusting, all these strange interview styles, and so on. The weirdest part is that companies are creating unrealistic job requirements for their positions and expects candidates to lie in their CVs so there is no "screening" on this level. Also, I haven't seen such an amount of nepotism in the companies maybe seens 2011 in Ukraine, which you are calling "networking", kek

[@TheNeozas]

also maybe the author does not really understand, why in EU people allow company to rule your career. It's just because people there do not really pursue the career :) one thing is when you are made to do something you don't like, so you can try to change something, but otherwise you have a lot of more intresting things to do - live your life, travelling, do your hobby and so on.

[@stoogel]

@@TheNeozas True, Europeans have no hustle and ambition

[@lv3609]

⁠​⁠​⁠​⁠@@stoogel They have ambition, to live own life. Some like to collect experiences (travel, learning) others more settled and strong connected to extend family. So life ambition not always directed at earnings or material. Then (and fortunately) government work regulations also aligns with each country’s culture. Incidentally, counter argument what the guy in the video said in video, on work -> purpose -> personality only plays if one live one’s life maximum focus on work as single task; there have been people who suicided few years after retirement. When you aware of all other things important to you then one has to balance things up.

[@xXMockapapellaXx]

Please do more long ones like this. I love it. Would have listened/watched you read the entire article, even if the video ended up being 5+ hours. It's really nice as a podcast

[@Alex-cx7tv]

I vibe with the whole GenZ can tell when a business is in trouble. A coworker of mine was surprised I basically knew my ass was grass a week before it happened and essentially every sign would indicate I shouldn’t have been.

[@mihainita5325]

About adopting new technology: one needs to think about the further. Imagine a system with several components (as they often are), written in 5 programming languages, 9 frameworks, 7 build systems. Some of them unsupported because the "cool new stuff" didn't get much adoption. Who's going to support that when the new guy pushing for new tech moved to a different project / company?

[@Doomsdayparade]

Pretty soon these videos will rival Mauler's in length.

[@mattfiocca2738]

Gen X here... i wonder if all the questions around the "what is all the true self talk?" stems from a generation that has (generally) grown up socializing through a screen vs in person. For us that grew up in the 80s and early 90s, all of our human-to-human interactions were done 100% in person, IRL... we didn't have as many opportunities filter ourselves in front of others as we were developing. Our "selves" is just one self, wherever we go (generally)

[@krftsman]

I don't think older devs are out of touch with salary bands, I think younger developers are out of touch with basic economics. They look at enourmous companies on the left and right coast, and then expect some small company in suburban Iowa or Nebraska to pay the same magnitude of salaries.

[@Jabberwockybird]

Fair

[@TenFeetDown]

slam dunk, "social media plays more of a role in what is stereotype..."

[@Tekapeel]

I NEED some detail on the highlighting thing

[@_nickthered]

Hot tip try to find companies that specifically do jot prioritize profits. They can exist just not many people start companies for other purposes.

[@paprikagames]

i work for an automation company and have to work on robots older than me and i fking love it

[@ivanheffner2587]

Holy crap. I didn’t realize this was a 2hr long video when I clicked on it. The difference I (GenX) see between “work is my identity” and “I want my work to be meaningful” is I want my work to actually have an impact on the company and / or for the customers. I don’t want to just run reports, fix odd bugs here, tweak a search algorithm there and no one cares. I still have a life and purpose outside of work, but my job isn’t who I am. I just don’t want to spend 1/3 of my waking hours doing mindless, meaningless, soulless drudgery.

[@LasparkOficial]

2:52 how do I submit my vote?

[@christian15213]

I love GenZ because they have more energy than me and will actually listen to me when I am trying to build their careers. They're more of a blank slate and easier to work with. I like working with them a lot. Well, the good ones.

[@SGast]

I don't think they mean that their purpose is work but that the work they do/the problems they solve have a purpose as in not mindless busy work or being payed by fang to sit around to starve competition.

[@IARRCSim]

41:30 maybe the companies are worried about super-motivated employees turning into the opposite. Maybe they think it is a sign of being mentally out of balance. Maybe they think it is a little crazy and the employee could snap some day and go postal.

[@jboss1073]

10:42 - And yet, Pharo's Seaside does it effortlessly.

[@ragsdale9]

I dont practice repair outside my job because I want to be a programmer not a tech. So I'm practicing programming and devops outside my job to push me into a position anywhere in the dev chain. It doesn't feel fair, its not as fun as it seems for a lot of people but im doing it.

[@TheKeystoner]

The kid who had all the badass Lego kits also had all the playboys… Ah, the 90s…

[@gsgregory2022]

It's funny. I see a lot of things attributed to one generation or the next when really it seems to be personalities. I know plenty of people who started their tech careers at an age younger then me who have stalled out because they don't learn anything new. I know plenty of people older than me who keep learning new things and keep progressing. I think it gets easier to fall into a rut when you are older but some of these traits are just the way some people are.

[@knowledgeiskey4087]

Bro i don’t know why I keep losing interest in coding. I try doing what the video shows me but it doesn’t work and I try to understand and make changes but I don’t understand and I just give up but I don’t want to. This happened so many times with me. But I can’t afford losing interest or quitting

[@MrJohn360]

Thanks for sharing.

[@Masterrunescapeer]

6:27 23 to 27yo aren't really entry level anymore, 22ish is junior, 23/24 starts intermediate, and 27 is around senior start depending on the company/work type (and the person, know 27yo who got senior due to skill etc., and a 40yo who should be an intermediate imho, but yes, age does usually help with senior with experience, just disagree that 24-27 is entry level for a lot). EDIT: Covered 15:44

[@ElmerGLue]

The age range is 21-24. 21 if you finish everything in 4 years and started uni at 17 due to birth month or 24 if you took 6 years and started uni at 18 due to birth month. This also assumes a privileged life where you knew how to use computer when you started to get into programming and also knew where you were going in life. Reality is that many have a head start from programming early in life yet there are many examples of older aged devs who change the industry just from their maturity to get things done.

[@joeeverett29]

It seems that the article's OP focused hard on only 35% of the survey respondents. This seems like a very narrow viewpoint based on the data collected.

[@nobody227]

When did Prime become double-clicker?!