What Happened To Legends of Runeterra? - Riot's "Failed" Card Game

[@GhostBeatboxFugu]

This game was legitimately good because of its generosity and player focus, and I'm glad to have been a part of this game's community even though the game eventually died down

[@pwpqwq7648]

Sadly being pay to win is what makes these games survive. That obviously makes the experience for F2P players worse, but at the same time, the vast majority of the playerbase is more than happy to spend their money

[@feykro222]

Legends of Runeterra is probably the only game where you can get all cards in the game without spending any money and without spending hundreds of thousands hours playing

[@FyrenRei]

not really the only game, surprisingly enough, yugioh master duel made by konami is also extremely generous not just at the beginning, you can make a new deck meta or not every 1-2 months, this becomes easier the more staples you get, you just have to play for like 20 mins every other day and you'll get a lot of currency for packs. Of course it would take a while to get all the cards since ygo has 13+ thousand cards and counting. You are actually discouraged from spending money on it by everyone in the community since the prices for currency is absolutely horrendous

[@Bumbleoka]

You need to pay a lot to get all cards or to play a lot

[@gonerofsavers3813]

Ok, I don't know why people keep saying this but that is not true, Master duel is not nearly as "f2p" as you say it is. Can't believe people fall for the "front loaded gems" trick, as soon as your front loaded currently is gone it becomes a slog. Also you forget how Konami is making more cards SR and UR with every pack. Have you not seen the ni-EXCLUSIVELY SR AND UR DECK LISTS?! that game is Able to be played for free, but it's pretty clear what there trying to do. So you need to be able to bugget well. It is definitely NOT "FRIENDLY".

[@lucasalarcon3230]

​@@FyrenReiMG is good enough to let make a few decks you want for free but i'm no universe a f2p can get everthing or always enough for the next deck

[@glasspaper3]

​@@FyrenReiin LoR you could get a new meta deck every week

[@joshuax1987]

"too generous for their own good" now that a phrase i never thought i would hear from a game

[@malicekerendu3574]

A lot of dead mobile games with good gameplay seem to share that fate

[@joshuax1987]

@malicekerendu3574 almost every mobile games is p2w, those cant even consider a game, the only winner is who have the bigger wallet or the biggest debt

[@pwpqwq7648]

@@joshuax1987 Being pay to win is what made those games thrive. That's the exact reason Heartstone is alive to this day. Ironic isn't it? It might be hard to believe, but people actually want to spend their money on this stuff.

[@kirbymoto]

@@joshuax1987that’s technically true but some are just way too generous with their resources that there’s too little incentive to push for paid content and resources when the game’s core mechanics can easily be obtained with just a bit of patience As for cosmetics, unless it’s the extremely dedicated, almost none will buy them

[@lankymario7189]

it is though, without some monetary 'investment', players don't feel like they are as attached to game

[@feykro222]

The biggest issue of Runeterra: There were no promotion from Riot. The game wasn't even in LoL launcher like TFT.

[@creolophus8276]

They added the button recently, there was even video about it on LOR channel 😁

[@byxis101]

@@creolophus8276 after the pvp was announced to be shut down xd

[@WhimzyInteractive]

Also not enough cosmetics. Hell, give us chromas

[@kauanjos3199]

​@@WhimzyInteractive exactly, you know it's bad when they released 1 single legendary skin for Kai'sa

[@kostakonomi]

​@@byxis101 the pvp is not shut down just its not a focus as they lost lots of the dev team and they focus on poc because all the players are there

[@nicopootato2330]

Opposing to popular believe, honest game gets shut down and scummy practices make money.

[@pwpqwq7648]

Blame it on the players. The only reason the predatory tactics are successful is because the players eat it up like rats to poison. Self-harming purchases can only be blamed on the consumer

[@shadowgame0630]

​@@pwpqwq7648 it's called "predatory" for a reason. You fall for it without even realizing.

[@asteriskonline3494]

​@@pwpqwq7648 I agree, but honestly, would you spend on a game that gives you everything for free?

[@cousinpatsey2471]

​@pwpqwq7648 no, don't absolve the companies making the offer. Someone knowingly making predatory offers is equally at fault for it. If anything more so just because the consumer could legitimately be someone struggling with addiction.

[@GrappLr]

That guy at 5:30 makes a great point.

[@yosh3837]

bruy it's you 🗿

[@MrLuzakman]

Not so much at 5:35 though

[@iDrKx]

We'll never forget you papaya

[@guyrooney95]

Fuck I miss you Grap and the LOR community

[@haithamzwayen9124]

Agreed

[@EinManU]

before even watching: the game was amazing, and the reason it died is because it was so f2p nobody bought anything and the game got its budget cut so much it just died. huge shame.

[@hutyro]

Don't forget how Riot struggled to figure out how to actually monetize its cosmetics despite the fans practically begging to let them buy more stuff from them.

[@EinManU]

@@hutyro yea there is a "being too nice" in game design and lor proved it.

[@lucasalarcon3230]

​@@hutyrobecause is card game the model is clear sell cards just look how much TCG pocket did in a month with less that 250 in rotation

[@JoViljarHaugstulen]

Well yeah they did have those battlepass things though with me being so casual and not playing very consistently they don't feel very good. Sure they might be "good value" but they certainly don't feel very good when you know you probably won't get it all before it expires.

[@unidentifiedflavourfulobject]

I literally paid for cards and skins when it launched but stopping giving them money because the direction of the game went to shit, it deserves to die for all the shit decisions made by game directors like Novagedys.

[@parteebear]

Best card game on the market, but Riot really did nearly nothing to game visible after launch (separate client, no announcements on socials, no cross promotion events.) So many people I talked to didn't even know the game existed. I also think Riot intentionally cut a lot of lore based products to not compete with Arcane, as the in-client short stories, Riot Forge games and LoR were all gutted at the same time. The LoR devs did so much, but management at Riot killed this game, same way they've been ruining the brand as a whole.

[@Akshonesports]

There was a long running theory that the lore for the game was going to be used for the LoL MMO but that project got sent back to the drawing board

[@victornguyen1175]

There's no point in spending money to promote a game that isn't making them money because it's so consumer-friendly. It's basically throwing funds directly into a sink, all for the sake of making a better game. Good, consumer-friendly games don't survive the Live Service model without a lot of compromises. It's not that it couldn't make money, but it's extremely unlikely that it would for a large investment that might not return at all. It's sad because I'd really prefer it if I could pay for a single version of the game and keep it for myself that way forever, I don't care for updates. If developers actually added some LAN support for once, and we'd be able to find our own way forward.

[@webbowser8834]

@@victornguyen1175 In fairness, that's more or less what LoR PvP is right now. I legit cannot remember the last balance patch, so the current meta is pretty much what you got (save for rotation in standard). The silver lining is that the card pool is deep enough and balance is good enough that you can make a looot of decks and take games with them.

[@rycksoto9003]

This was legitimately one of the best games I've ever played.

[@mrgerund3060]

I think Legends of Runeterra is the prime example why companies cant be your friend. Because the best efforts and friendliest practices don't guarantee success. It's a shame since I don't think LoR wouldn't have been as lovable as it is if riot did take the strategic route.

[@rickmel-q7m]

TFT and DOTA2 seem to be succesful despite not selling any gameplay-related items

[@affirazer]

​@@rickmel-q7myou didnt understood his comment. Its not about being a game p2w or not

[@rickmel-q7m]

@@affirazer so what are the "friendly practices"?

[@cheeseistaken]

how the fuck is your conclusion even related? how "companies can't be your friend" ?? in regard of LoR, the player experience was first and formost, the company was the best of friend. the conclusion should be literally the EXACT opposite, the playerbase can't be trusted. The common idiot will flock to battle passes , microtransactions and $500 ahri skins, disregard to player experience and developer intentions The average player should be considered mentally retarded and should be drained completely for financial gains. Such core values are what that shapes the videogame industry we have today

[@gabrielantunez7642]

​@@rickmel-q7mtft sells 300 dollar boards

[@grrthssmnn]

9:45 completely agree here. LoR is/was an awesome game. The gameplay is so fun. Especially the in-game tournaments every 2 months. Riot never really tried marketing LoR to the extend needed. Only after 4 years, when the playerbase was gone they started to directly add LoR to the league client. Most league fans never really got in contact with the game.

[@Akshonesports]

They definitely should've pushed it harder in the LoL client. Riot tried to offer free stuff through Amazon Prime Gaming back in the day as well, but many people would just end up claiming the rewards each month and never installing the game at all.

[@iDrKx]

I miss seasonals :(

[@isabas]

I quit just after they lost the focus on the PvP, in TCG i am not fan of PVE.

[@cooljclmaster]

i remember when the game realesed and there was a cap on how much card you could buy witch actual money each week (or day?) for the first couple of weeks so that no one would get too much of a head stasrt and everyone could enjoy the unique gameplay of playing with the limited card pool we had. It was so fun but i still find it funny how some people were ready, credit card in hand, to put hundreds of dolalrs in the game to get what they exactly wanted and riot literally refused that money. The game was literally not money hungry enough for its own good.

[@LxZurk]

Legends of Runeterra has been such a beloved part of my life. It's so extremely well polished but they killed the game with almost zero advertisement. Only adding the LoR button to League client AFTER the announcement on cutting the budget?? I seriously don't understand why they made the game so invisible. It's a massive shame...

[@georgetang7107]

To add on: At launch the game wasnt even advertised in the league of legends client whereas tft was baked in client from start.

[@Zondac]

Legitimately one of the best projects to come out of Riot and it is heartbreaking that the game never got the popularity it deserve(s/d)

[@Akshonesports]

Do you think Legends of Runeterra was too generous with card acquisition leading to people spending less and the game is running at a loss?

[@RedHairShanks-bb3dc]

I think card games are meant to be Gacha, it's just fun getting rare cards when you purchase them with real money

[@GrappLr]

It's not just that. The other issue is that they removed the entire "collection" aspect out of a CCG (collectable card game). When it first launched, it took a bit to get a full collection. After that, everyone had enough resources to instantly craft an entire expansion, day 1, with zero money spent. Opening the weekly "vault" for rewards was literally a chore, and they had to add a button to instantly claim all rewards (since nobody needed rewards). This led to people also getting bored very quickly, because there was no "chase" for cards. Everyone had it all, minute 1. New expansions died much faster than they should. Having a goal to chase long term in card games is a big motivator to play more. Chasing after cards that are hard to get that define decks is sometimes more than half the fun, and the reason you grind a card game (or pay for packs).

[@RedHairShanks-bb3dc]

@@GrappLr There's just no Dopamine on getting rare cards, that's the problem of this game

[@r3zaful]

​@@RedHairShanks-bb3dc master duel most profittable month was when sentouki/sky striker alt card release and current evil twins alt art release which is rarity bumped and you cannot craft the alt card you have to pull them on the pack, i know that yugioh and runeterra dont share the same audience, its japan focused audience game and make most of their money from japan, cute girls sells simple. releasing a rare fanservice card that you cant craft nor pull will piss off the runeterra audiences, also as we can see that most western players that play master duel arent really care about getting a rarer fanservice card when you can just use lower rarity anyway. it works in master duel but i cant see it works in runeterra

[@rickmel-q7m]

no, it just wasn't popular enough due to its gameplay pattern and restrictive deckbuilding TFT and DOTA2 let the player access every game-piece right off the gate and they don't have a problem making money

[@creolophus8276]

I hope Riot find the way to continue support for the game, maybe some gatcha stuff for obtaining random guardians or stickers, more social elements to show other what you get or something like that

[@airdeku888]

the lore and ingame interactions this game offered was way too good to be true, it's been downhill fore riot as a game company ever since they shut down this, riot forge and laid off so much of their workforce in many departments. real good for their upper management tho, that's all that counts, their pockets.

[@gavinhennessey4187]

TFT > LoR > Summoners Rift Runeterra has so many awesome mechanics and ways to play with both PvP and PvE. I prefer it over hearthstone because it plays more similar to Magic the Gathering and MtG Arena just demands too much of your credit card. Runeterra is constantly handing you free card tokens

[@MurexHyena]

I really hope that when Riot eventually makes the MMO, they would rerelease runeterra as an ingame card game for players , and you would buy packs with ingame money

[@GiroStar01]

a game failed for being too generous what a world we live in

[@sonsai10]

If LoR launched before hearthstone it would be played untill this day, this is one of the best cardgames I've ever played. It's very unfortunate the game died

[@hoaang9455]

I remember that when irelia and azir become soo op that i rage quit the game like the game isn’t updated fast enough to fix the card.

[@kaithekittycat]

Played it since launch and still do sometimes. I don't believe a card game has to feed into gambling psychology of getting rare drops like a gacha game to be successful. The problem was the cosmetics were simply not appealing enough to invest money in for most players. I bought a couple things but overall there wasn't much that compelled me to spend money. Boards and guardians had limited interactivity and card skins with level-up animations are great but there are many times where you just may never see it in a game due to surrenders. And conversely, these cinematic champion level-up animations also make LoR a much more expensive online TCG to make compared to things like Hearthstone, MTG Arena, etc. So they were actively incurring *more* costs to make the game while also choosing to avoid the predatory business model that is standard for these games. Moving their focus to Path of Champions saved the game and it's in a better spot now as mainly a rogue-like deck-builder. Executive Producer Eric Shen said in an interview with Snnuy that the bundles they sold for Path of Champions since May of this year surpassed their board sales for ALL of 2022. They've also stopped making custom level-up animations and done away with voice-acting too to cut costs. Kinda sad to think about but monetizing some gameplay aspects did in fact save the game, although it's not the addictive gambling approach. I just don't think card games have the broad audience appeal to stand on just a cosmetics monetization model alone, or at least not the way LoR was doing it.

[@JoViljarHaugstulen]

I also occasionally play LoR and they didn't just have cosmetics they also had the season pass things. Though obviously expiring season passes are not very appealing for casual players and if they do buy them they will likely not complete them which feels really bad (even if they got "value" for their money still feeling like they didn't everything they paid for still sucks)

[@MrLuzakman]

Gambling aspect is not true in the slightest. A lot of irl Magic players, especially older ones, almost never interact with booster packs, just buying singles. Especially nowadays, with Commander being the most popular format in the game.

[@cousinpatsey2471]

​@@MrLuzakman the thing is, you don't interact with a lot of people pulling Magic's gacha wheel. All the newish people at a prerelease love it, the people that play Commander super casually love it, pretty much everyone but entrenched tournament grinders love it. Magic sells as many packs as it does for a reason. People like cracking packs.

[@MrLuzakman]

@@cousinpatsey2471 a huge chunk of sealed products goes straight to shops, which crack packs and resell singles. That said, I don't deny that people like opening packs. To elaborate on my opinion, I think it's reversed. If I enjoy a game I'd want to spend money on it to enhance my experience further, be it new mythic rare card or some shiny protectors with an anime waifu. In the end there's no point in buying some pieces of cardboard or pngs if I don't enjoy the game. When I go to my locals, I go there to play the game, not to crack some packs. When I boot up a game it's because I want to play it, not because I can't wait to spin the gacha. Then again, I might be in the minority and big whales think differently or something.

[@rubi3050]

limited interactivity? point me to a CG with more effort put into the cosmetics

[@keikun145]

The biggiest thing that upset me with LOR was the fact that they had the resources and ideas to make this succeed. They had the audience who would have dropped money for special rarties. but my biggest complaint was that they added a LoR client too late into the base LOL game. They would have gotten more players from there. But I guess they werent thinking.

[@rygornspectre7142]

LoR failed to be predatory and incite gambling and that is a bad thing ....

[@DaLastInDaWorld]

easily my favorite game Riot has put out to date, it’s a shame it was never marketed to the wider League audience. took forever for it to be added to the official client

[@fanficologist6621]

One simple reason why LoR died: its finance department is dog shit. Players were BEGGING the game devs to give them things to buy, but the few items there are in the shops (skins, card backs, legends, etc.) were overpriced as shit, so even if players want to support the game, only whales can stomach spending their money.

[@wigmanmania259]

Still find it baffling that technically Artifact made more money than LoR

[@korylester9769]

Something that kinda went under the radar is how the LOR devs tried to pivot to PVE years ago and were denied. Crazy stuff was teased like co-op, they tried to save it before it got to this point but higher ups didn’t see the vision

[@FlutterSwag]

Im sad to see the lore aspect go, it really didnt move the lore forward but expanded it outward to make the world feel real and lived in with all the interactions and card text

[@benjamincher29]

I would be so ready to put my money back in this game if they return to the pvp experience, it was genuinely the most fun I had with tcgs in a long time

[@TitanDraugen]

Seeing Warwick having the default level up animation compared to other Champion cards having their own personalized animation felt so painful. Even worse when LoR players have been waiting for Warwick for a long time. 💔

[@RavenUwU605]

The budget cuts were too much… it’s absolutely tragic, this was by far the best card game on the market and it failed because it wasn’t greedy enough

[@RicardoPower]

Had better champ design than their main game.

[@armorbearer9702]

It sounds like Riot did not have a strategy to build a competitive league. Did they assume one would form naturally?

[@mehdisilini7296]

I love card games, but I hate wasting money, so I never got hooked by one. When LoR came out, it was such a breath of fresh air. It gave me the opportunity to commit and play various decks and strats. It brought me back to a time where I used to play yugioh with my friends in the school cafeteria and ill always be so thankful for it.

[@JT-xn9ei]

I hope they can develop an offline mode so I could play it more smoothly on transit. Maybe simplifying the Path of Champions would make it better. I'd love to have a randomizer pick any of a certain star level instead of dealing with analysis paralysis. I wish this game didn't have to work against managing server costs and comparisons to TCGs (It might've been more successful if it was a roguelike deckbuilder from the start).

[@YourTamedLion]

It was such a beautiful and fascinatingly interactive game. But also more modern than the mtg system with lands. Still sad it died. But I cannot blame Riot, they tried it with an approach I love and that they believed in. Player first, not the immense greed of others like Marvel Snap. 😢 Rest in peace, LoR ( glory time of PvP and regular releases of new big sets of cards)

[@milhanelyamanikarim4226]

As a SEA player where this type of game is unpopular, i really love this game. The champion level up system is so good. Already played this game since 2020 and never get bored. I wish this game could continue for a long time so i can still play it.

[@soura6995]

If they just turned the skin lines into a gacha a lot of whales would want to grab it, and show it off on pvp, plus a lot of active players espcially in the twitter community really want to spend money on the game but they dont know where to spend it, since the skins are limited and some of the skins are mostly being centered on a one champion rather than the other existng or old champion whether it is meta or not

[@joaov2374]

Riot didnt wanted this game to suceed. Thats the truth. Not enought spotlight for it to shine. Im a cardgame veteran and i can say thats the best online cardgame made. But without marketing.... even that will die

[@MrLuzakman]

I'm a card game veteran and can say that LoR was the most frustrating online cardgame I've ever played. And that's including Vanguard Zero.

[@airdeku888]

all we can hope, that one day riot will actually try with something other than tft in china and gacha mechanics again.

[@godfreysneakily2802]

Riot did things right in order to deliver a quality game that puts players first. They tried to go against highly predatory practices that were ingrained in the TCG scene. It's just sad that that kind of approach is not feasible for a modern live-service game.

[@exoticbutters2781]

I think another issue that LoR had was requiring players to download a completely different client instead of making it available in the LoL client like TFT. If they had done so, I think more players would've tried it and players would keep coming back to it. But out of sight, out of mind. I think they need to retire the standalone client and just incorporate everything into 1 client.

[@AbsoLucian]

I wish they adopted a more whale friendly strategy with cosmetics. As well as investing time into some way that made players feel like their was something to invest time in outside of grinding ranks.

[@JB-xw1zq]

Such a shame, man. Great video though.

[@casualmlg4754]

I am a new player that came from Slay the Spire, I also play League and love the Lore. The PVE game mode is amazing to just play at 2x-4x speed while watching youtube on a second monitor and the battlepasses provide good value for starting out your champion pool (I have bought 4 so far). The problem lies in marketing, the game is fun, polished, amazing art, amazing story. One thing I would improve is how path of champions is presented, if the story was presented the same as Age of empires 2 campaign, it would be amazing for us Lore junkies.

[@thelastfloss1912]

i knew the day would come this game would be covered in this channel, and it still hurts all the same

[@sevenseasago6901]

Played tons of different digital card games. Runeterra is still one of my absolute favorite card games. Loved the decks, loved how approachable and generous the game was, loved Path of Champions. Game blew Hearthstone, SNAP, PTCGP, and other TCG's outta the water but no one talked about it.

[@SubzeroBlack68]

They should have switched it around. You buy packs but can earn the skins. Like imagine if skins were from weekly/monthly events. People would have to login and play to get the event skins on time and not fall behind. But players who wanted to win the skins faster would have to buy the packs to build their decks faster.

[@Gio-gh4li]

As a player who spent quite a bit on the game and bought skins and boards, what made me quit was actually the balance. My favorite part of the game was just picking a deck and mastering it, buying skins, getting mastery points on my fav champs, and getting boards to match with those decks. I would spent decent money on a deck to make it my own, I would get good at the deck, and then it would just get nerfed. And I don't mean like a small touch, like the deck would go from 55% wr to 49%. It was really demoralizing when I would spend money and time on a deck just to have it be completely worthless the next day, and eventually it happened enough times to make me decide enough was enough

[@MrLuzakman]

I agree completely. I played LoR quite a lot on official release, quit, then returned, then quit for good after the last batch of PvP champions. It feels like a complete echo chamber has formed around the surviving LoR community where they just repeat the same cope statements over and over.

[@pyax7038]

Three-year LoR player here! I do agree that the lack of a playerbase was the problem, not the business model, and this shoud've been the first issue to solve. TFT thrives because the barrier of entry is literally non-existant, you can click and play with all compositions from the LoL client. LoR is nearly the same, but it didn't receive as much promotion as TFT. I believe the cosmetics were also extremely underwhelming: The companions sit on the edge of the screen, to the point you forget about them. Champion skins on a card game is just stupid, I didnt want to pay 10 bucs for a new image of a champion that i will maybe draw 1 out of 2 games. Board were the only enticing thing for me, and I did buy 3 of them.

[@fahadtahir9942]

For those in the know, Travis Gafford is an INSANE (not in a good way) source for anything related to Riot Games. You might as well be interviewing the CEO directly.

[@boldisordorin9010]

The problem was not that it didn't have enough player. It's just that those players had nothing to buy. The cards were too easy to get

[@tineye5100]

Game was too meaty for the Heathstone crowd but not meaty enough for the MtG crowd. By being in the middle it mostly satisfied neither. They didn’t advertise it well either. The economy was very fair but it’s like they expected that to carry the game on its own.

[@F2PAlius]

I loved LoR but man. It sucks it died out but it felt inevitable

[@Scent1110]

One of the best games, I ever played. They could have done the Pokémon tcg route for cards. Some gambling dopamine hits but you can still buy the cards you want if you open enough packs. Keeps you coming back for more everyday.

[@urdimsum7961]

Community didnt support it cause the game was too generous lmao.

[@pwpqwq7648]

They COULDN'T support it because most stuff was free

[@Plight_]

​@@pwpqwq7648I bought plenty of skins and boards personally

[@urdimsum7961]

@@pwpqwq7648 yes too generous

[@terrablaze3387]

Yeah, too generous. Funny how that happened.

[@CosmicGenesys]

They should have went with LoL's skin to chest time difference. Where a new skin will be available to the f2p players in a few months. When a new card set comes out it should be locked in a paywall for like 3 to 6 months before releasing it to f2p. This way it will incentivice hard core and whales to pay up to have an early lead, and f2p will have to wait and grind. Im no game designer but i am a business student who love to play games.

[@cousinpatsey2471]

That sounds like a business major's idea, and I mean that with nothing except disrespect.

[@Smoses_senpai]

Team fight tactics was always available in the league launcher right? And for some reason they didn't do that for LoR. So it's not only a very different game to League but many people also didn't know about it because many people apparently keep up with any news and just play the game.

[@Hey_Fab]

Unpopular opinion: The game didn't die because of its generous business model but because the gameplay wasn't good enough. While enjoyed my few dozens of hours on it, I rarely experienced exciting games. The minute to minute decisions were too simple, almost as if the deck played itself. I'm not even a MTG fan but it was still more interesting than LoR, despite the few innovations of LoR. I think the game was creative but too simple at the same time.

[@JohnRengo-h4w]

I on the other hand think it was inferior to Hearthstone in this regard, which was also a very simple and fun game early on. LoR had some mechanics like the battle token which I thought were unnecessary and just made the game more complicated than it needed to be. HS on the other hand managed to create a unique class fantasy with its Heroes and many different archetypes, while also remaining extremely simple to grasp. Compared to it, LoR always felt like a lesser version of that experience. But yes, I do agree that blaming everything on it being "too generous" is unrealistic and a bit silly.

[@HassanKhan-wq3tk]

LoR was one of my favorite games of all time, good way to acquire cards, cards fun to play, basically anything you can ask from a card game. So sad that they stopped updates for pvp

[@lynpotter6471]

My issue with Runeterra is that very little of the game felt viable. I realize that there's always a meta using a subset of cards, but Runeterra's meta always felt too thin due to the Champion system. That also led to a bunch of feels-bad moments where your deck just didn't function if you didn't draw your champ on curve. I don't mean to say that Runeterra was worse than other options, just that it needed to have appeal beyond card game enthusiasts and couldn't manage it because of how certain things felt even when it was technically fine from a competitive standpoint.

[@OneUniti]

It is incredibly clear that the F2P model of LoR is what eventually killed it, but it was so much more than an a good game to me. It was my only TCG I had ever put super serious effort into. LoR was, and at its core IS, an amazing card game. And Riot gutted it for money. And they gutted me with it.

[@Iznikroc]

TFT wass ssuccessful becuase it was in the league of legendsss client. Runeterra was whole different game you had to download. Also im feeling the pack pulling argument as we speak becausse i moved on to pokemon TCG pocket and i dropped too much in a few days just pulling packs.

[@MurexHyena]

BECAUSE it wasn't a greedy gambling game! there is no sunk cost and no gamblers dilemma... i'm disappointed in everyone!

[@kado_1012]

I find it hard to believe that a well designed game only failed becaused it lacked gambling. Riots management is historically lacking, and the entire AAA gaming market is in a really tough spot right now. Looking at the lay offs in a purely utilitarian perspective cannot give a full picture. Even if the game was succesful at the time, Riots management could have just pulled the plug on it because the big shots at Riot did not think it would work long term. Which is complete bullshit, of course.

[@valorrye2342]

I still play the game regularly. The PvP of this game was and still is the very good, but sadly the support for it got cut. If LoR had more funding and marketing it would've had more success.

[@okdre9276]

Realtalk just such an amazing game and it's story is just so sad. I'm glad I was a part of it though, as it reached high like almost no other card game out there.

[@noskizzle5274]

I love the game but the generosity paired with meta decking was the true root of it's downfall. It was too easy for everyone to play the same top tier decks.

[@ugurcankarakas6554]

This game is literally hit by "Sunk Cost Falacy" most TCG/CCG players literally has stockholm sendrome where they can't leave their card games because they invested way too much money and time

[@Ridsssss]

dying from beeing too generous is crazy

[@lol_vevo]

We spent years complaining about over-monetized piece of garbage games from companies that don't care about the customer and when we finally got a honest to god AMAZING card game that was at the same time 100% F2P we let it die. Maybe we do deserve to get milked by greedy companies, maybe we deserve gacha mechanics, battle passes, overpriced DLC and unfinished games.

[@JohnRengo-h4w]

So overall, I think the reason for LoR's failure can't be simply excused with it being too generous. The gameplay, lore and its release all contributed to its eventual destiny. Compared to a game like Hearthstone, its high's were never as high except being more f2p friendly.

[@JohnRengo-h4w]

"A game that technically did everything right, but still failed" Well, that's a pretty big stretch to start with. As someone who greatly enjoyed League's post 2014 lore, I was very hyped about a new game which will expand the world. One of the biggest problems LoL's lore faced, is that it was updated extremely rarely, be it for characters or larger conflicts. Looking back at LoR's release however, I only see how naive I was. The sole thing LoR managed to achieve realistically, was creating another continuity for LoL's story, which makes it even harder to decide what is canon and what isn't. There are just so many inconsistencies, plotholes and other issues that I generally choose to distance the canon lore of the webpage from this game. So overall, LoR has become more of the story's nightmare rather than its salvation. While LoR was also pretty generous, I never had as much fun with it as with Hearthstone back then, the latter was simply more fun. There were some extras for LoR, such as the battle token, which made matches less enjoyable for me. The game's PvP side eventually also failed because of poor balance decisions and a predominant focus on agressive decks. I also played the first ever truly PvE focused content for LoR, the one where Gangplank posed as the final enemy. I remember it as being an overall pretty fun experience, even compared to the absolutely amazing solo adventures of Hearthstone. However, when they added the new and current PvE battle system, I was extremely dissapointed. I did a full clear of Piltover with Jinx, which was extremely boring, then I tried the Ionian map with Teemo. I'm not kidding, it was genuinely impossible to defeat an enemy with my deck, no matter how I played the cards. I found it pretty baffling that the experience devolved in such a manner, and I haven't played the game ever since. Besides the generosity of LoR, I fail to find anything else which could be argued was better in it than Hearthstone. I always thought that regardless of its achievements, LoR always remained in the shadow of Blizzard's amazing cardgame.

[@ghoziakbar6410]

Wild rift suffer the same problem. They don't know how to monetize the game while their competitors are doing more aggressive strategy for monetization. And not counting how there are literally zero advertisement since the beta release considering mobile moba market is pretty huge in Asia and LATAM. The only thing that make this game survive for a long time is Chinese players single-handedly tanking the entire wild rift revenue. I also don't understand why they don't implement compendium battlepass system like how Dota 2 does in TI. It's literally a 'kill two birds with one stone' strategy where you can gain huge profit and also improving your esport scene and community around it.

[@bdb.potatoabrams768]

Notification bell stays on lock

[@kumi1465]

i picked it up recently after not playing since release and honestly i'm having a blast and completely addicted at the moment and i usually don't play card games, i think people should give it a second chance

[@OanhHoang-up3uj]

It just now a PVE game, not Dead

[@izzaazzurri]

I've never feel so depressed of a game on dying state like this game is right now. The game was so fun and very f2p friendly. One of the best digital card game out there with great art and lore. And it just fumble like that

[@happypepper9326]

The game is still on. I am still playing to Legends of Runeterra.

[@pinjin7487]

Instead of making free to own all cards, its better to implement trading system like traditional tcg where you can focus on build a deck you want to play, still cheap and have a goal to work towards to

[@verycoolboy458]

may this game be remembered as one of the best of its kind 😭

[@chidzhustle3570]

I do think mechanically and design wise, each expansion removed what made LoR LoR and made it more like any generic TCG. Every new champion card came with a new keyword, a new mechanic, rather than adapting the champions into the lens of the card game and what it already had established. It really made me dislike the game. Champion design was mid, we had bangers like TF, Aphelios, Swain, and then keyword soup.

[@kazo6324]

I dont think removing shitty gamble mechanicks was the reason for LoRs down fall, but rather the lack of marketing and any meaningful promotion for the game. When heartstone came out you got a free mount for WoW if you tried it out but LoR wasnt connected to league in any way. Also if you play any game for some random lootbox mechanic and not for the gameplay or the story your home is in a casino not in any gaming comunity.

[@thadex454]

Pokemon card game is way more popular because people enjoy pulling for cards and showing off rare finds to friends. LoR was good game, but lacked the "ownership" feeling people have with their cards.

[@okidoxb4846]

ok WHY is no one talking about the failed China release? not a big enough population to support cosmetics not a big enough population to support esports not a big enough population to share it on social media People say CONCORD was the biggest blunder. But CONCORDE nvr had hope to get off the ground. This is the worst timeline bc LoR had HOPE, then someone didn't get the game China Legalized... they made the WHOLE game and couldn't release in their biggest market KNOWN for whales that would have spent money on the cosmetics, bc they didn't get the legal rights to release but they didn't try to fix it, thats just adonkso?! can we PLEASE NOT fault Riot for not being predatory? Like thats so incredibly twisted. There are other ways to drive engagement and sales than asking people to gamble on getting a specific card.

[@yubel2713]

Does anyone think that the level up animations (as good as they were!) were unnecessary. I do understand some special cases like for the ascend trio but every single champion didnt need a whole cutscene. I feel like that was a decent part of the budget in some cases. I the fancy card flip was more then enough

[@michel0dy]

Yes. For me, it also got old reeal quick. Even seeing my own champion's animations made me tired after a while, it gave me the feeling of "yeah, yeah, I get it, can we go back to the game?"

[@yubel2713]

@michel0dy Couldn't agree more 😂

[@krzysztofwisniewski8325]

I like level ups, but they should stick to the simple and quick animations. Later they were playing a fucking cinematic that is longer and probably more expensive.

[@JohnRengo-h4w]

Especially when playing with Ascended decks and having to watch 3 heroes level up at the same time for like 30 seconds! 😂

[@pluviaaeternum]

the worse a card game is, the more greedy they have to become (just look at yu-gi-oh the crapiest and greediest card game). LoR simply started becoming bad and didn't become greedier so they failed.

[@RyuBateson218]

I really liked it but I managed to get 3 competitive decks in a couple of weeks without spending a penny so I understand why it was not a financial succes.

[@Usuariorandom]

As a Yugioh player I don’t believe that the problem is the generosity but the actual gameplay been just so fuckin slooow

[@michel0dy]

As someone who has been playing yugioh since forever and has dabbled with many other card games and their digital versions, my impression with LoR is that it lacked excitement. The game was mechanically fun and all, but card games thrive on creating antecipation for getting special cards. As consumer friendly as it was, after a while I didn't have a thing that made me LOOK FORWARD in opening the game and trying to grind and pull for a rare card. I built a deck I wanted to play, I played it, that was it. Also a smaller nitpick, the unskippable champion animations got old real quick. It made me not want to play my champions just so I didn't have the same animation again and again. And the champions are the faces of the game! Duel Links too has some lenghty animations when you summon a signature monster for the character you're playing, but one tap on the screen and you're back to the game.

[@MrLuzakman]

Yeah, meta of Azir/Zerath was absolutely insufferable for that reason. You couldn't even concede and was forced to watch four animations in a row.

[@PanjolArt]

they should make this game as a mini game in their mmo.

[@mikevos4460]

It's not a failure! The only failure it was is being too generous for it's own good :(

[@cursesin]

its a financial failure for riot games, even though to the players it was great

[@terrablaze3387]

Still, it’s a financial failure.

[@mikevos4460]

@@cursesin ye okay financial failure true

[@unidentifiedflavourfulobject]

"Everything right"? The card game that threw away PvP and deckbuilding for boring shallow repetitive PvE content? Did Riot pay you for this video?

[@Exaltable]

LoR is genuinely fantastic and I still play it regularly. Feel like videos with this sort of title are REALLY harmful to the game ever getting the upswing it deserves and would rather get the quick cash in for content than support the generous good hearted F2P games left in the world.

[@davsqualetto]

I really miss Legends of Runeterra... and it will never comeback😔

[@JohnPaul-EruRainon]

I don't think what you said from 6:30 is accurate. I don't think there are any games to which normal people watch the eSports of. Every game has barriers where people who don't know what's going on can't fully enjoy it. Only Runeterra players watched runeterra eSports, that's true but that's the case with every eSports game i believe. Simple the playerbase is incredibly large for those game. LoR failed coz riot did not market it properly. They failed to advertise the game to the core league fanbase.

[@terrariaco8301]

One of the things I hate HATE when people talk about LoR is that they blame its death on generosity which IMO makes no sense. The reality of the situation is that they made an amazing game and proceeded to gut it in every way. They didn't promote it so barely anyone knew about it, they didn't create enough worthwhile cosmetics (people who played will know that they started to slowly stop making new Board Companions, Boards, etc and the ones we did have weren't extremely high quality), they put a lot of money into high quality art and voicelines which backfired since its a huge money sink (and those who saw the debacle with Ambessa and Warwick recently know exactly whats up. They did say they'll be giving them the voicelines tho). Most importantly tho we can't delude ourselves. This game has absolutely awful metas. AzirIrelia is famous (and I think Bilgewater and Targon had their fair share of insufferable metas. Looking at you TF, Fizz, Veiled Temple. Shout out to Lee Sin) but card design went down hill after Bandle City. Poppy, Tristana, and Veigar were absolutely terrible design wise. Galio, Rumble, Yuumi were also pretty bad. All the Runterran cards had one problem or the other, but notably Jhin and Bard are some the worst designs. Neeko, Nidalee, and Poro King's entire expansion was a low point. It hurts more when the team can't commit to better and more frequent balance patches, on top of deciding to all but stop reworking old champ designs. Then there's the decision to start making unique champions before we had every LoL champ, the design-locks self-inflicted by "Region Identity", and the idea to commit to rotation which split the PVP player base (not in half mind you, but still) and created the unbalanced mess that was eternal while allowing a somewhat ok meta to exist in Standard (tho there are always problems). And don't get me started on Path of Champions. I know people love playing it, but Im honestly surprised it makes as much money as it does. I can't speak to what it does to warrant it, but it's crazy to think about. but yeah TLDR: The game is good, but it made a lot of mistakes. Generosity didn't kill the game, a whole lot of mistakes did overtime, but generosity was not one of them.

[@JoViljarHaugstulen]

Yeah the cosmetics were not very appealing. They did also sell those season pass things which I did buy a couple of times but I stopped as expiring passes are just not very good or appealing for a casual player like me (even if I probably still got "value" for my money not getting everything still feels pretty bad)

[@mariogunawan5844]

Agreed, the game felt REALLY horrible when it feels horrible, and NOT AS GOOD when it feels good. For example, when you queue against azirelia with normal deck at the previous meta, you're going to lose no matter what you do (that deck have >60% WR for that reason), but if you specifically counter it, MAYBE, you can win the game and when you win, it does not feel great. Tried coming back to the game on GNAR meta, it's NOT GOOD AT ALL. The game is still practically a rock paper scissor with gnar mixed in. How come the #1, #2, and #3 deck at that time, have like 70-30 W/L ratio against some decks, and 30/70 ratio against other? The outcome of the match is decided the moment riot match makes you with your counter OR your "food". It's not fun at all. Also, 1 more thing, the game is slowwww as hell. The rope is introduced after what? 1 minutes every action? And a turn can have more than 3-4 actions. But IG this one is more of my personal preferences.

[@danielgarza7934]

I agree, it was a very good game in the beta and the Bilgewater expansion, but with each expansion the game became worse until it became too much with Bandle City.

[@badatf19]

@@terrariaco8301 this

[@MrLuzakman]

​@@mariogunawan5844abso-fuken-lutely my point. The game often feels like it drags on for eternity, even worse in certain matchups where both players just sit there and wait until one of them snaps and does something, because both know that whatever they play would be immediately destroyed/countered and then they won't have enough mana to counter the opponent's next turn, etc... and then it snowballs into a real shitty experience.

[@Aphelia.]

I will forever love Legends of Runeterra. My first and most entertaining card came.