What Happened To The Extended Trot?

[@gillmason9616]

When my back got too bad to ride, I stared to drive my horse. Watching him do an extended trot was amazing. You knew exactly the moment he would go forward into it, because his back would raise as he made room for his hind legs to come through. It was wonderful.

[@avikasixfour2362]

Finally somebody talking about it Extended trot is so far from what it should be it shocks me that judges give 8s and 7s for what is mixture between fast trot and spanish walk There are so many hollow horses with fancy gaits and lack of actual foundation and they get scored more than horses with correct movements but less flashy appearance

[@avikasixfour2362]

@@brooksequine7621 it's closer to walk than trot. That's why I didnt compare them. Spanish trot still should have momentum from back (front legs should have higher action but back should still be main engine of the horse), where in walk momentum from front is somewhat acceptable (and not so noticable as in trot) All of those horses have momentum taken from front and back is super weak

[@MBrusaZappellini]

Great series! I’m so glad to hear others see the goose step front unengaged hind “ ex trot” is problematic. Honestly, sometimes it feels like I’m watching a “park horse” saddleseat demonstration with some contemporary Grand Prix tests...

[@Rebecca-fu5hg]

Its funny that you mention saddle seat. Arabians, morgans and saddlebreds all have this same issue, big in the front and a straggling behind while the trainers and riders think they are collected. All those breeds have been using hyperflexion on their show horses in every discipline since the 50s and 60s.

[@MBrusaZappellini]

@@Rebecca-fu5hg just wait, who wants to be t that someone will get the idea to use Saddlebreds in their Dressage breeding program for their animated movement...( if it’s not being done already). I’m not saying this to bash Saddlebred horses, (who I’m sure have many good quantities) instead, I mean it as a commentary on the trends we’ve been noticing in some contemporary Dressage practices The breakdown rate of these hollow horses has to be pretty high...

[@randomperson748]

I am in absolute love your channel, while it celebrated the sport and art of Dressage, it also educates the audience between the correct way of doing dressage and the wrong while even exposing the abusive moments within to teach the audience the difference between what is actual abuse within dressage and what isn't and how to properly look out for it. To that I say thank you ❤❤

[@comesahorseman]

The extended trot's become an extended strut.

[@arribaficationwineho32]

With exaggerated front action unequal to rear

[@trppro7640]

So nice to have confirmation of how I was trained. Starting ti think people don’t remember classical dressage training.

[@randomvielleuse527]

Thank you so much for being so clear and concise with your explanations and examples. Even though I can't ride right now (no horse, no money, questionable health) I am studying like mad just in case I can ever ride again. I love dressage but so much of it is borderline or outright abusive, or just plain wrong in the classical sense. This was very helpful- and I was really interested to find that my instincts about modern versions of extended trot were right. :)

[@jrjibs]

In none of the examples is there sufficient lengthening of the frame to allow the front feet to land where they point and the hind legs are only just over tracking instead of about 18"; neither do any have a true moment of suspension which always used to be a criterion. So what has happened to the extended trot and may I add extended canter?

[@sarahwagland1559]

You're the only person to comment on the test but you don't rank them. I think the first one is the best, followed by the second and then the third but I would like other people's opinion. I also think they are all better than the example given before we are asked to do the test.

[@lisabaker9036]

So true! I noticed that at a show back in the 80's with a very well known trainer. The horse was clearly dropped in the back and no longer connected over top line. He was throwing his front legs way out. Flashy, but not dressage correct.

[@syzygyfarm]

This is honestly why Dutch Harness horses are being incorporated in dressage breeding programs now. People see high hock action as a positive but those horses aren't built to sit on their hind ends so you get zero forward motion. Does it look fancy? Sure. Knee action is always fancy.. but it should be correct before it's fancy.

[@Rebecca-fu5hg]

The same with using frisians in dressage. Dont get me wrong, they are lovely horses but they dont make the prettiest dressage horses and they just never really look properly collected. They were bred to be a flashy carriage horse and I am just not wooed by their fantasy appeal that so many are.

[@jobond3317]

I really like dressage hub and whoever contributes it. Dressage has become very hip with lots of dramatic movements. But I always believed that all movement comes from the hind moving up through the body of the horse and rider to show the harmony of both species working as one. Even the halt is forward just the impulsion is stopped Also the pole is the highest point on the horse not an over bent tucked in the head I'm not sure why dressage has changed maybe because it's become more of spectators sport and therefore the need for showy performances. But is that what dressage is about.

[@debbiethomas3687]

I was always taught that the hind hooves should land just behind where the front hooves landed, and it's a beautiful pace to watch done well, with the horse appearing to almost float across the ground. Sadly, it's rarely seen these days and even if it is done well the tv coverage now rarely has the cameras at the right angles to see it, they are almost always positioned pretty much head on. (I don't go to shows.)

[@annelao666]

PLEASE I have a question. A week ago a realized that my mare I bought in autumn is half sister to Valegro (out of Negro). It's gonna be 4 yo this spring, but I'm not sure what to do. She is M size, but has very nice gaits. I've ridden dressage on pretty good levels (maybe soon start training gp), but my horses were already adults and trained. I don't know when I need to start training a horse if I want it to try reaching Gran Prix. Should I start when it's 4, to make her natural movements better with stretching and needed muscle training, or may it ruin her at all because of starting when her body is not fully grown up yet? So I should wait till she's 5? Would that be better? Ty

[@pumpkinprincess3786]

you can start a horse at 4, but dont overwork them... some ppl like to use the ag=days rule, aka if ur horse is 3 u work em 3 days a week, if they are 4, its 4 days a week and so on. starting a horse should be relatively uneventful... maybe a bit of bucking when the girth first goes on but it should not be rodeo. U should let them build muscle while being worked from the ground while the desensitization is going on... If u dont know how to start a horse, do not be afraid to ask for help from professionals

[@tictactoe325]

She’s still young. So give her time to just ride out gently on trails to teach her confidence in her own feet and some gentle conditioning miles under her belt. I like the idea of age and days of work guideline. Don’t even think about collection, keep her on a simple plain snaffle and teach her to use her body and develop suppleness. When she’s older eg 5-6 then start on more formal extension work, but above all, teach her to bring her hind quarters underneath her, because that’s where the power is. She will collect herself naturally as she drives and uses her hind quarters. You can do all this on a plain simple snaffle, it what I did with my horse and he had a very light mouth and powerful collected canter on a snaffle.

[@niwka]

4 is very young, my instructor (2* cross country and GP dressage) starts all her horses at 5-6 year olds, typically 6 where possible. All have reached high levels, and their bone structure is fully developed at that stage. Sports horses shouldnt be started early - horses develop (depening on breed) until between 5-8 years old. General rule of thumb is never train a horse more days than it is years old (eg train a 4 year old 4 times a week) until 6, and never ride more than 6 days a week. Hacking is immensly important, do that minimum 1-2 times a week if possible. Dont sit on a horses back until it's at least 5 y/o. That's what I was taught and so far I've never had a horse break down, or otherwise display negative behaviour. The most important thing though, is let it be a horse. Give it a few months break, let it out on a field with a herd. Let it be itself, otherwise it'll get frustrated.

[@annelao666]

@@pumpkinprincess3786Interesting thing about age to training days. I think she'll be fine with the saddle later because she's perfectly fine with all types of rugs. But we'll be slow at the beginning. Thank you for the advice

[@annelao666]

@@tictactoe325 I think then I can go hacking on other horse with this mare on a long cord with halter (with and without just a saddle) on several days a weak. Then she might get used to it. We have a small river-rivulet, so walking in it when it becomes warmer might be good I have never trained a dressage horse from scratch, so I wonder how would it go with teaching collection later. Maybe in hands would work)) ty :)

[@clairenightmoon2979]

The thing that made an extended trot so special to watch was the impression of a floating horse, however now it’s just who has the most flexible horse, this feels like the type of gymnastics where they overstretch wayyy too much

[@lauraamick463]

Totally agree!

[@shadowshearth6068]

I definitely feel like the Dressage world is moving into the realms of exaggerated movements similarly to more abusive practices (such as Big Lick and Hackney Races). Of course, some breeds of horses have different style of gates, but it is turning down the path of "it has to be bigger and more extravagant in order to win", which completely butchers a horses natural beauty and elegance. I'm saddened to see the horse riding world go down this path... and I'm glad to stay out of the competition world. I want a partner -- not a machine that I tweak on until it breaks.

[@NordeggSonya]

My boss in Germany was very strict (she was an event rider) regarding a rider learning to sit sit sit so the horse could be naturally expressive in its gaits and the rider would be able to ride the horse without interfering with the action going on underneath. That way we also didn't rely on the reins as a crutch or brace. We used to see who could get the most over track in an extension not the most flailing of front legs. We rode with 'old fashioned' saddles ie no thigh block. I think now riders use the thigh block saddles because you don't really need to know how to sit properly any more. They ride the saddle and not the horse. In the old saddles we HAD to ride with our legs ON the horse. It naturally stimulated the horse to forward movement. Now you tilt your heel up and lock your thigh into the thigh block and your legs don't have to touch the horse at all. I am so disappointed in the state of 'modern' dressage today. I had hopes of competing and working my way up the judging ladder so I would be able to do things and earn money in my retirement years but I can't. I cannot help along this circus dressage. I ride for myself. I have a few students. All of this shyte that is being lauded and applauded is crap. It is to the detriment of the horse. Sad, very very sad.

[@randomvielleuse527]

I kind of blame the "horse dancing" label and the setting of dressage to music for a lot of this, as you so eloquently put it, "shyte." Plus, the modern desire for instant results and massive success in the ring is a huge part of the problem.

[@dasreitteam4658]

Who was your boss in Germany?

[@NordeggSonya]

@@dasreitteam4658 My first boss was Frau Martina Funke Pferdewirtschaftsmeisterin mit zweimal Stensbeck Plakett. She was amazing! She put me on the longe and taught me to sit. Then she said I was good and now it was time to learn how to ride. There is a difference. She gave me my first spurs. This was 1991 but its all still with me. My second boss was Michael Rohrmann. I have DRA 3, Reitwart FN, Trainer B. But that was a while back. Now the Reitwart is not as important. I wanted to go back and get my Reitlehrer or Trainer A but the economy is bad so I stayed in Canada.

[@havanadaurcy1321]

Good question, my RDA used to check horses (mine was an ex racehorse, Godspeed Bobby) for injuries after trots. Could that be a reason?

[@DressageHub]

Possibly.

[@justjaguar2314]

I wish you'd put Valegro in there! He has such a nice hind leg action, his movement in general feels so natural light and easy♡

[@hallhv01]

Looks like the big lick more and more and less like dressage

[@MBrusaZappellini]

I Just said something similar ! Also, when Passage starts looking like a Hackney Rack...

[@hallhv01]

@@MBrusaZappellini absolutely!

[@justanotherAA]

Yes. The leg movers front ends are very reminiscent of big lick!

[@debbiethomas3687]

That's a revolting thought, but one with which I have to agree.

[@alicepotter8165]

I fully agree.

[@hannahfitch8977]

The new stuff sure is ugly compared to the old days, and I don’t even follow dressage! People are dumb, I guess.

[@arribaficationwineho32]

Trends guide the show world from dogs to horses and the animals do not benefit from any new trend.

[@hannahfitch8977]

Which is why I say people are dumb. Apparently no one in this particular crowd has the insight to say “what in the actual fuck are we promoting?”

[@Viva_Cynefin]

Oh thats why I felt kinda iffy about a lot of the extended trots

[@itsmeitsme8281]

And why don't the worlds best judges know anything about that?

[@anecobb]

I think it is a bit hard to put it up like "what happened to the extended trot" I have 6 horses, and have owned many more - some horses find it easy, some find it hard - I have had 2 horses in my life that had it built in... just let them go a little, and you could just sit there and smile. The rest of my horses have had to learn through training... some get good, some get better... some never get to be amazing. It is not fair to say what happened to the extended trot - there are horses that do amazing extended trots! If you want to make a video, make a video on how the extended trots are graded. How about we sometimes focus as much on the good in these videos as on the bad...?

[@Rebecca-fu5hg]

It does not matter if a horse is naturally talented or not, there is correct and incorrect. Even a less than talented horse can have a correct extended trot. It may not be amazing but it will be correct.

[@anecobb]

@@Rebecca-fu5hg I am going to have to disagree - and I would say, that if even some of the top level riders in the world can not manage to train every horse to do it correct, I would be amazed if you can.

[@niwka]

@@anecobb if you have horses that cannot do a proper extended trot then their breeding has let them down. Most sports horses are bred for flashy movements, not proper shape & function. If your horse cannot do extended trot then most likely they do the '3 legged' trot - a breeding choice that is ultimately the downfall of many horses. Your horse most likely has hyperflexability of the joints, which can ultiamtely lead to the breakdown of the joints of such horses.

[@Rebecca-fu5hg]

@@anecobb So you believe that only talented horses can perform the movement correctly? How narrow and sad of you to think that way. The horses shown in the video could have had lovely extended trots but instead the trainers opted for hyperflexion and they have developed this abnormal incorrect movement.

[@anecobb]

@@Rebecca-fu5hg dear keyboard warrior - First of all, I do not appreciate your tone, and I think we are all adults here, are we not? so maybe try not to act like a Karen - no need to tell me that I am sad and narrowminded - that´s just rude.... maybe try using your words instead of insults? If you are right - every horse on every level of competition should be scoring a 10 in a test on that one.... maybe you would be so kind as to share a test sheet or a video of you training a horse, that can educate the rest of us. Apparently the only people in the world that has found the holy grail to a perfect extended trot.... are people hiding behind the screen here on Dressage Hub.... please do share your wisdom with the rest of us, so we can succeed in dressage just like you. Ps - do you know these people and their training methods personally? because I think it is a bit of a statement, saying they all use roll kur... you should be more careful of the accusations you throw round I think.