What Happened? Why Did This Harley Trike Crash?

[@collinsbrianm]

Hi guys, thanks for doing this. I rarely comment on videos here. I’m a certified riding instructor in the state of California. I’m also certified to teach the 3-wheel courses, and have a TriGlide in the stable. First let me say, I 100% agree with your analysis of this crash. Second, what we teach and what I do is to have my body WAY over into the inside of the curve BEFORE you enter the curve. I think in this case, having that as SOP in curves might have prevented this. Important note, when things get weird. STAY in that body position. Do NOT straighten up! Again, thanks for your work on this.

[@DKCustomProducts]

Glad you like the video! Thank you for the added point! 👍😎👍

[@markjohnson5847]

Guy just over rode the coner..

[@DKCustomProducts]

He probably was Riding to fast for his experience level (moderate), certainly not too fast for the Tri Glide capability.

[@petermichelson3865]

Where are your classes at? Because I trikes for the last year to find Harley trike training with zero luck. Can Am training was being taught ok the 4 hrs class intro course, but because there was zero interest in both the 4 hrs intro class, and the 8 hr license endorsement class RideRght at Lake Elsinore stopped the course because Can Am pulled back their conex box container of training trikes for Can Am! Harley isn’t allowed in the state of California to teach any endorsement classes for Harley trikes! So I want to buy a trike because I have both types of balance issues do to my military Service; since their isn’t any proper training classes why spend the money when I can learn to know, and train so I am safe on the roads. Going to the dealerships to ask they treat you with rudeness all the time. What is this Retired USN Chief to do?

[@petermichelson3865]

I was doing some research about this to find out that the front folks of these styles of Harleys trikes aren’t properly set up for trikes! In order to make the steering smooth with zero problems the front forks need to be properly racked, a lift kit needs to be installed in the rear, and the normal motorcycle narrow patch tire needs to be change out for a proper wider patch trike front tire. There needs to be actual training & riding classes for buyers & riders to learn how to rider Harley trikes! The insanity in California is that you can ride one of these on just a Class C car drivers license. No matter what dealer you go to Harley or Can Am they don’t give a rats ass about your safety! Just sell product, and move on! No intro classes nothing! Harley isn’t allowed to teach trikes in California, but on their learn to ride section of their website they claim to have trike training! Good luck finding it in the state of California because Harley trike training is no where to be had. That leads to a trike training lic cert and drivers liv endorsement so you can get discounts on your insurance, and at the motorcycle shops. Where is the follow on training?

[@rfuller5657]

As you guys mentioned, not holding brake to at least half the corner, and that front wheel "chatter" as I call it either due to broken pavement in the corners, front wheel grip from speed, or, lack of strength holding your line. When I'm riding fast through twisties, it's a workout! It takes arm and body strength to hold that front wheel going where you want it to go, and you cannot slack off for a second. That front tire does not want to scrub, you have to make it. Good video and explanations

[@DKCustomProducts]

Glad you like the video! Thanks for commenting! 😎

[@gregsoto4777]

Thanks for the reply and link. I also agree that things happen fast and reaction needs to be instinctive. I have had some close calls that have proven to me that practicing as you ride helps with muscle memory and also anticipation of the what ifs as you ride. I’m also a believer in watching videos like yours to provide information from experienced riders. Thank you again. Enjoy the ride and keep on twos or threes.

[@DKCustomProducts]

Thanks for sharing! Yes, practicing in a controlled environment could help in split second decision making. Thank you for commenting! 😎

[@berniebakeriigoodyear]

I started writing motorcycles when I was 12 yrs ols. I just recently started riding a trick, about 4 years ago.This video never been great, I have not been in a situation yet, but this video will really help me not to get in that situation.Thank you so much for sharing.You guys are great... By the way I am seventy five years old and ride a Street glide special and bought a 2022 CVO Trike.

[@DKCustomProducts]

That is awesome! I am glad that you like the video. Thank you for commenting! Ride Safe Ride Free!!! MB

[@jackklarich7045]

Good video and break down on what happened, things happen so fast it is hard to react without good muscle memory, practice does help. Merry Christmas to all @ D K Customs

[@DKCustomProducts]

Hi Jack! Merry Christmas to you and yours! Yep, things happen quickly and that is where practice kicks in! Thanks for the comment. 👍😎👍

[@donaldwycoff4154]

Thanks for posting this. As a n00b trike rider on a 2023 Road Glide 3, I was glad to watch the last video and this one. Maybe out of habit from a 2-wheeler, I always lean into my corners on the trike. I took up the habit because it made it feel less like I was going to roll off the trike on corners. Anyway, knock-on-wood, I hope using both the front/rear brakes, and leaning into the curve, will help me avoid this sort of accident.

[@DKCustomProducts]

Glad you like the video! I hope you love your new Ride for many years to come. Practicing different speeds and turning angles in a controlled environment will help you more than anything! Good reflexes and fast decision making comes from practice! Thanks for commenting!

[@victorgarner3331]

I agree with you on your statement. In my opinion the drive should have slowed down before the curve and took the body position to the right side. Hope that he’s ok and doing well.

[@DKCustomProducts]

Thankfully, the driver walked away from this crash and even rode his bike to the destination! Thanks for commenting!

[@talkingrock7011]

I am grateful to be alive because I’ve definitely pushed our Trike to aggressive , things can happen so quickly especially at higher speeds !

[@DKCustomProducts]

Absolutely!! Ride Safe! Thank you for commenting!

[@SuperRobertheath]

I had this happen to me on my 2015 TriGlide in a decreasing radius curve. I was able to recover before I wrecked but it sure remained me to look further into the turn.

[@DKCustomProducts]

Glad you were able to recover your ride and not wreck! Nothing like a close call to remind us how easy it is to lose control!!! Thanks for commenting!

[@boscodog4358]

Great video. I am just now learning to ride my 24 TriGlide Ultra. I am trying to figure this very aspect of riding the trike. I'm 73 yrs old. Great video.

[@DKCustomProducts]

Glad that you like the video! Here are two videos about transitioning from two wheels to a three wheel bike that you may find useful/interesting - kzbin.info/www/bejne/Y4vOnnt9p7iYqsU and kzbin.info/www/bejne/h5jPc5SLmpyciJI Here is a video on riding a Trike Aggressively that you may also find interesting - kzbin.info/www/bejne/Y4vOnnt9p7iYqsU Thank you for commenting! 😎 MB

[@darwinandoe1003]

My apologies. I was looking for your video on Trike Trail-breaking and couldn’t find it. Great instructional video. 130K on my 2016 Triglide. The old saying, it’s better to be lucky than good. Unfortunately, to over simplify, the gentleman in this video was unlucky. Thanks again for taking the time to share this.

[@DKCustomProducts]

The video on Trike Trail Braking will be out soon...it is not published yet. Thank you for your comment.

[@evermill1]

Thanks for creating this video, some super information that I hope will help trikers understand how to drive curves.

[@DKCustomProducts]

Glad it was helpful! Thank you for commenting! 👍

[@somtronblair5189]

I’m glad you talked a little about trikes steering wobble. I converted my 2014 street glide special into trike with motor trike kit. I never rode a trike before and that front end wobble tightened up my sphincter a few times. I definitely didn’t like it. Is there any way to get rid of or lesson the wobble?

[@DKCustomProducts]

You should have a steering stabilizer installed...then it is only felt at low speed. You should never feel it above 15-20 mph. If you do, and you have a steering stabilizer, perhaps it is worn or just needs to be stronger.

[@somtronblair5189]

Thank you for the heads up on the steering stabilizer, I’m going to look into getting that done. Happy Holidays gentlemen.

[@DKCustomProducts]

Happy Holidays!!!! 🎄

[@RoyalKennedy601]

Thanks for this video . I was looking thru your videos and I was wondering if you ever did one on trike cornering ?

[@DKCustomProducts]

Glad you like the video! Here are two videos about the differences between 2 & 3 Wheel bikes. Part 2 has some advanced riding technics as well - Part 1 - kzbin.info/www/bejne/ipiZao2JebqNlbM Part 2- kzbin.info/www/bejne/h5jPc5SLmpyciJI Thanks for commenting! 😎

[@deanbedetti]

This is great content guys,,, due to my wife and I just purchasing a 120th anniversary Tri-Glide. Great share.

[@DKCustomProducts]

Glad you liked it! Congratulations on your New Ride! I hope you and your wife enjoy riding it for years to come! Thanks for commenting!

[@mikedanaher3413]

As a guy, recovering from a severe motorcycle accident, I find this information very useful. I’m considering a trike for my next or probably last bike but, I just don’t know. There are risks involved with everything so, I’ll take this information and hopefully make the right choice for me.

[@DKCustomProducts]

Mike, I am glad you are still here and recovering! There are certainly risk with any motor vehicle. You can help your response time by practicing different scenarios in a controlled environment, such as an empty parking lot. Practicing will help your response time and could be the muscle memory you need to save your life in a split second decision scenario! Thanks for commenting!

[@Tryke_Ryder]

I appreciate the analysis as I had an eerily similar accident in Arkansas this past April, but unfortunately there was oncoming traffic and a 130’ drop off the other side of the road. It ended my riding season, on the same day it started.

[@DKCustomProducts]

Oh no! I hate to hear that. I hope you recover fast and your next riding season goes much better! 😎

[@Tryke_Ryder]

@@DKCustomProducts new trike purchased, broke spine healed, modifications begun (including the DK tank lift and floorboard extension). Ready for spring!!! 😁

[@DKCustomProducts]

I am so glad you recovered and were able to get another Ride! I hope you enjoy your new Trike and have a much better riding year in 2024!

[@gsfinatic]

I have a 2016 TG and have been looking at independent rear suspension conversions. What are your thoughts on independent rear suspension conversions conversion?

[@DKCustomProducts]

We have an entire video exploring Independent rear suspension on Harley's and other trikes that is coming out in the next month. There is a myth that IRS is more stable (less likely to tip over) than a straight axle Harley trike. In the upcoming video this myth is dispelled by a major Harley Trike Conversion company that makes IRS conversions. IRS trikes actually feel more tippy than straight axle trikes. The reason is that most folks go with IRS to get a softer, or more compliant ride quality...so to do that they have the shocks adjusted fairly soft. Here is a quote from the IRS conversion companies website. "If the roll stiffness is too soft, the rider feels a false sense of doom. If the trike leans too much, the rider feels as if he/she is going to tip over or slide out of control." We cover this, and more in the video coming out soon.

[@paulbronnenberg2075]

Hey guys .... I have been looking for this since the first one sooo was real glad to catch this. I have been riding HD Trikes since 2018 and currently ride a new 2023 Road Glide 3. Although I have experienced some close calls over the years and I can sure see how this could happen. So THANK YOU for analyzing the video and recommending corrections. I just finished a 9 day road trip from Georgetown, Texas to Monument Valley Utah and then west to Silverton, CO to ride the Durango-Silverton Railroad. I enjoyed the train ride MUCH MORE than the Million Dollar Highway because you can look at the scenery. My new RoadGlide 3 was OUTSTANDING . THANKS for sharing your expertise !!!

[@DKCustomProducts]

Congratulations on your new Ride! I hope you enjoy many many miles on it! I am glad you like the video. Thank you for commenting! 😎

[@ruffwood2012]

I have been riding my 2021 Trike for 2 years. The one thing I noticed was that Trike seemed to roll quite a bit. Questioning whether it has rear suspension modifications? Also what was the Tour Pack loading? Was it top heavy? Have you taken any of these things into consideration?

[@DKCustomProducts]

Yes, we took the thoughts you outlined into consideration. Thanks for your questions and thoughts. 👍 He had aftermarket shocks on it....but the roll (compression & rebound) was not the factor. Several of the Trikes in front of him have the same suspension set up. The roll is what will happen when the things we discussed in the video occur. (rear brakes off lifts one tire and then all the weight is on the other, then when it comes down, it will compress a lot, then when the left tire drops into the ditch it will look like roll, when it is just the tires staying in contact with very different height surfaces. There was very little weight in the Tour Pak....but even if there way, and even if it was up high, this is NOT the cause. When Mary and I go on a road trip, there will be both of our weight (and much of it is up high), then the Tour Pak is full with some pretty heavy things, then the Tour Pak rack is full, sometimes with moderate weight and sometimes with quite a bit of weight(like on our trip to the Arctic Circle) with 2.5 gallons of gas (Yes, for over 15 years we have loaded our Tour Pak and TP rack with over Twice the amount of weight that the little HD sticker says...which I think most recently is 25 lbs). This weight is indiscernible on a Tri Glide and NOT the cause of the wheel lifting. The cause of the wheel lifting is the wrong line chosen and the release of the rear brakes while the throttle was on, at just the wrong spot in the curve. btw, if he had the new suspension that HD is using, like what came stock on your 2021, and if he was running the rear tires at 26 PSI, per the manual, the wheel would have lifted even more, and then would have probably pogo'd when he came down.

[@steveschklar7658]

Thank you for this analysis! I appreciate the time and effort you put into helping us all understand how to ride more safely. I have about 85,000 miles of riding my 2018 tri-glide. When you determine "he was not riding too fast" that gives me pause .... All of what you say about Apexing and/or keeping inside rear tire close to inside white line is important .... HOWEVER no matter where you are in the lane, you MUST be able to HOLD (MUSCLE) the handlebars to make a safe turn happen. AND, if doing so would cause the trike to lift a wheel or flip, it seems to me to indicate SPEED OR LACK OF STRENGTH needs to be considered. If I cannot hold the turn physically with the trike staying in my lane, it simply means I am going too fast for my ability. I agree that timing, lane positioning, camber, and front wheel scrub are all factors but 99.5% of riders should not need to make a perfectly text book turn to avoid a crash. Not sure why one should not use both front and rear brakes in a turn. Maybe you say more about that. Don't recall if 2015 Tri-glides have linked brakes, but my 2018 does. I agree with not being too hard on the rider in this case and surely hope for a speedy recovery for him. Group riding is challenging. I am a spirited rider but have had to train myself that my trike riding partner is far more skilled and stronger than me, so I often have to let him do his thing and me ride in my personal spirited zone. Cheers from loyal customer and a fan with much appreciation.

[@DKCustomProducts]

Hi Steve, thank you for your comment and thoughtful questions and good points. You are 100% correct. We should have said he was not riding too fast for the Tri Glide capabilities, but was riding faster than his capabilities. We should have made that a very clear distinction. Although he had gone thru more challenging curves, even faster, it was obviously at the edge of his abilities and this one curve bit him because there was no "cushion", he was at the edge. Definitely use front and rear brake approaching the curve, to scrub off speed. Holding the rear brake and throttle in the curve is for smooth, planted stable control of the trike in the curve, not so much for slowing down anymore...that should have all been done before in the meat of the curve. Yes, riding in groups always brings an extra component into the mix. ALWAYS, NO MATTER WHAT, Ride Your Own Ride. Never let any outside factors push you to ride in a way that you are not 100% comfortable and confident in. PLUS, don't get hit by someone behind you. Thanks for your comments and your business, we appreciate both. 👍😎👍

[@tracymccann2483]

I am getting a new free wheeler I rode bikes for 25 years.should I trail break thru every curve or at what speed should I be trail breaking.is it just for high speed thanks love your videos!!

[@DKCustomProducts]

Congratulations on your New Ride! 👍 Here are links to two videos we made on that subject- kzbin.info/www/bejne/Zpetg2ejgpZqo7s kzbin.info/www/bejne/Y4vOnnt9p7iYqsU The most important take-aways are: -Practice a LOT in a big empty parking lot to get to know your Freewheeler and how it handles and feels when turning. -Never go faster than you are 100% comfortable with -I, with over 150K miles riding Harley Trikes, will never be turning sharp enough to need trail-braking at speeds over 35-40 mph -I use trail-braking in low speed (under 40 mph) curves -Really, really practice a LOT in a parking lot if you want to ride aggressively -The safest way to ride is at or below the suggested speed in curves Wishing you many miles of smiles on your ride! 👍😎👍 KP

[@dennisminer7436]

First, I listened to your analysis and I agree that he let off the brake too soon. Going into a turn you slow down and speed up coming out of it, and he had not gone far enough through the apex of the turn when he let off the brake and then things went wrong. That was a primary cause of the accident. However, I see other contributing factors. (As background I rode a Softail in a motorcycle group and currently ride a trike). So as soon as the tape begins and way before the accident my first reaction is, we are going way too fast. It’s a two lane road, oncoming traffic is possible, and so going into turns too fast is dangerous. Even without the accident I would not have been comfortable participating on this ride. The next thing I thought of was the riding group leader is going too fast for the group. Usually that causes a catch-up feeling towards the back of the group, and pushes riders to the edge of their skill level. The leader should be the slowest rider of the group and then everyone can enjoy the ride and look at the scenery. Pushing the group to its maximum skill level going into the twisties is not enjoyable riding and is more typical of young crotch rocket riders speeding along scenic roads and only seeing asphalt. Conclusion: Secondary factors of speed and group riding procedures contributed significantly to this accident.

[@DKCustomProducts]

Good comment. Yes, every group rides differently, and the yo-yo effect can be frustrating and also motivate folks to ride over their skill level. Regardless of apexing or taking the very inside, or trail-braking, the simple solution of going slower takes care of everything. 👍

[@petermichelson3865]

Here is the problem! Harley doesn’t want to stand by their trikes. This is the 8th crash of Harley trikes that made the news since 2019. That one that made the news involved a USN retiree, and his gf who got killed. When you buy a factor Harley trike the braking system isn’t beefed up to handle two large auto tires in the rear braking. The normal motorcycle tire/wheel/braking system up front doesn’t have the 70% stopping power as it does on a two wheel motorcycle as it was designed for! The question have to be ask did this trike get the proper form racking, and rear lift kit needed for smooth steering, and safety effective braking? You can trail brake on a two wheel bike, that trail braking of the rear is only 30% on two wheels? This is why Trike Three wheel training, and endorsement training must be available for those who choose to purchase trikes, and especially for those who convert trikes. Harley-Davidson on their website claims to have training, good luck finding it! Because it’s not available on every state! It’s not available anywhere in the state of California.

[@dennisminer7436]

Did you see the comment about going too fast? Apparently not. Do you need a riding course to tell you not to go speeding into the turns?@@petermichelson3865

[@hoopscorner6458]

Always put the slowest driver up front.

[@dennisminer7436]

As an afterthought, I ride my trike like I did my softail bike when going into the turns. I downshift going in and upshift coming out using the engine for braking. There's more control that way. When you need to use brakes it's a sign you are on the verge of losing control. My view.

[@michaelwilliams8554]

I have a 2023 triglide ultra and almost rode under trailer of semi on an off camber curve at highway speed. I learned later to turn off tcm when riding on dry pavement. Tcm sends torque to tire having better traction and pulls bike in direction of rear wheel with better traction. You can feel the difference in handling on street turns with the tcm off. Practice riding with rcm on and tcm off. You will be surprised at the difference i handling. 😮😅

[@DKCustomProducts]

Thank you for the comment. I believe you are talking about the TCS? The later Harley-Davidson Tri-Glide Ultra's comes with a Traction Control System (TCS). The TCS prevents the rear wheel from spinning out when accelerating while leaning. Yes, riding without the TCS on definitely changes the ride characteristic's. While it would not have made a difference in this particular wreck, it does make for a significantly different ride, when riding aggressively. We talk about it in depth in the video linked below. You may find it interesting....even though the video is in the snow, we do talk about how it works in Non-Snow conditions. kzbin.info/www/bejne/eIvMm4WenqyBj8U KP

[@HogheadBill]

Great analysis and break down of the accident guys, as much as I tried to break it down by stopping and starting the first video, this does break it down far better, I do agree that he was off the rear brake too early into the curve and cut the apex short, but as I said before and I stand by my statement, once he made the correction, he unloaded the front tire which caused him to head directly into the ditch, if you look closely he did try to steer back right but the front tire just slid on the pavement, speed wasn't the the culprit, not apexing the curve enough, not staying on the brake and over correcting the R wheel lift caused the accident. as I too own a 2015 Tri Glide, i've filled my shorts a few times with it, when you try to ride it like it has 2 wheels not 3, side note I found that once I lifted the rear end, the trike handles much better in curves, mine is made by Legend and retains stock suspension but never the less, great lesson to learn here and will be practicing more once the snow is gone. Cheers from the Great White North

[@DKCustomProducts]

I know it is hard to see on the poor quality dashcam footage, but is left rear tire was already dropped down off the pavement into the dirt ditch when he tried correcting to the right with his front tire. But it was not enough to overcome the ditch the left rear tire was "captive" in. Thank you for your comment, and wishing you many miles of smiles on your Tri Glide!

[@craigkemmerzell5741]

Thank you 😎

[@DKCustomProducts]

You're welcome 😊

[@oldbikenewman]

Great breakdown of the situation! Clearly, you two know the rider's skill level and did not think speed was an issue. My only counter to that is the more speed, the less room for error. Riding with a little extra "pep in the throttle" is fun but opens the door to error a little wider (in my opinion, of course). My second point is probably more of a question/comment combination: I noticed that you mentioned him using the rear brake. On my Road King, I use the rear brake 95% of the time, but on my Freewheeler, the rear brake doesn't provide much stopping power at all so I use the front brake all of the time on it. I am a big guy, so I guess that could play a part in it? Godspeed

[@DKCustomProducts]

Thank you for your comment, and good points you made. Very much appreciated. 👍😎👍 Yes, we should have been more clear. The speed was not to great for the curve for the Tri Glide or Freewheeler or RG3 capability, BUT it was on the edge for the rider capability...thus the accident. AND WE AGREE 100% with you, the faster one goes (even within the bikes capability) the more chance there is for error and bad outcomes. Front and rear brake should be used to scrub speed off...but when going thru the curve (not before the curve when scrubbing speed) only the rear brakes should be used to control speed...the amount of throttle will not vary. If one wants to go faster, let off the rear brake a bit, if one wants to go slower, apply a bit more rear brake. It is NOT recommended to use front brake IN a curve. The reason is that the front wheel on a trike, in a curve, is already scrubbing/chattering/slipping a little, and using front brake will accentuate that. On a side note, many folks complain that the rear brakes on their trikes do not work so well. This could be because the pads and/or the rotors are glazed. Fixing that may be something that you would enjoy. Now, to be clear, there is not good feedback from the rear brakes, but a hard enough pressure should be able to lock up the rear tires (or if ABS equipped, trigger the ABS). If they cannot, then that is when to look at the possibility of the pads or the rotor being glazed.

[@aloeisthestuff9622]

This is why 3 wheel atvs got banned.

[@DKCustomProducts]

It is important to take training courses and know how to ride a three wheel motorcycle. You can ride a three wheel pretty aggressively as long as you know how to. Here is a video of me riding the Dragon that you may find interesting - kzbin.info/www/bejne/aYakfn5_n55qfZI

[@amosheath777]

The 3 wheel Honda ATV was the most dangerous cycle of any kind I've ever ridden.

[@deweydodo6691]

Having never driven a trike bike, does counter steering have the same effect as driving a trike?

[@DKCustomProducts]

Trikes do not countersteer...not one single bit. Here is a video you may find interesting- kzbin.info/www/bejne/ipiZao2JebqNlbM

[@bradboustead1682]

Counter steering creates or establishes lean angle.

[@DKCustomProducts]

This is true on a Two Wheel Bike, it is not true on Trikes. Counter steering does not work on a Trike. Check out the video link in the previous response.

[@williamcapp8915]

My only thought is, was he really riding within his abilities or just trying to keep up with the group. It does take tremendous upper body strength to keep your line especially in a "twisty" for miles situation. Fatigue will set in! Stay healthy!

[@DKCustomProducts]

You are 100% correct. It is important to ride within your abilities especially when riding in a group! We should have said he was not riding too fast for the Tri Glide capabilities, but was riding faster than his capabilities. After miles and miles of curves you can certainly get fatigued and that can pose a real issue. Although he had gone thru more challenging curves, even faster, it was obviously at the edge of his abilities and this one curve bit him because there was no "cushion", he was at the edge. Thankfully, he came out of the wreck pretty much unscratched! Thank you for commenting! 😎

[@paulfreespirit]

Hindsight is a wonderful thing!

[@DKCustomProducts]

They say hindsight is 20/20!!!

[@everettballenger7880]

I am about to buy my first trike this week. The crash video is scary to watch for a newbie. My question is, if you have a passenger does this stabilize the bike more, meaning can you corner faster/safer with a passenger? Thanks so much for the great videos.

[@DKCustomProducts]

Good Luck in finding the perfect Trike for you. Wishing you many miles of smiles!!! Yes, the passenger weight will help keep the rear wheel down, especially if they lean with you to the inside of the curve when riding aggressively. Here is a very useful video to watch on the subject- kzbin.info/www/bejne/Zpetg2ejgpZqo7s Here are two videos on the Subject of Transitioning from Two Wheel Bike to a Three Wheel Bike that you may also find useful/interesting - kzbin.info/www/bejne/ipiZao2JebqNlbM Part 2 kzbin.info/www/bejne/h5jPc5SLmpyciJI Thank you for commenting! 👍😎👍 MB

[@sur2baja]

Kevin, First of all...THANK YOU for your videos, they're very inspiring and informative. I've purchased your products and they are great!. You and I have the exact same trike. I live in San Diego and we have lots of twisties. Along with some of my travels, I frequently encounter mountain roads and since I travel with only two-wheel bikes, those guys tend to drive faster. Yes, I "ride my own ride" but like others...I occasionally find myself coming into turns a little hot. I watched this video and listened to your description of trail braking on a trike and using only the rear brake but that differs from others who talk about lightly using the front brake on a two wheel bike. I'm confused and I apologize if my phrasing of the question is off or my perception of what trail braking is or is not. I've read lots of forums on the subject but have found no definitive answer for a trike. I guess what I'm asking is if I find myself in a similar situation as this video, Also, how do you isolate the rear brake on a Harley since I have linked braking? Thanks again for everything you do!

[@DKCustomProducts]

So glad you like the videos and find them informative! We appreciate your support and business! The later models have linked brakes, when using the rear brake pedal you get full rear and it only applies a fraction of the available front brake (2 of the 6 calipers). When using the front (hand) brake it applies full front and some rear. To get full braking power, it is good to use both the front hand brake and the rear foot brake to scrub speed quickly. Here are two videos on riding aggressively that you may find interesting/helpful- kzbin.info/www/bejne/Y4vOnnt9p7iYqsU and kzbin.info/www/bejne/Zpetg2ejgpZqo7s At some point we may do a video on linked brakes. We do not like them, and do not like Why HD implemented this system, but, it may be a useful video to do. Thank you for your comment! MB

[@scottulrich4200]

Does having a passenger help in keeping the wheel down because of the extra weight or does it make it worse because of height??

[@DKCustomProducts]

Yes, the passenger weight will help keep the rear wheel down, especially if they lean with you to the inside of the curve when riding aggressively. Here is a very useful video to watch on the subject- kzbin.info/www/bejne/Zpetg2ejgpZqo7s JP

[@theChestnutMtnTinman]

You're talking about he is applying the rear brakes.....how can you tell as the brakes lights are coming on. I have a 22 triglide with all the crazy stuff. My brakes are linked at 4 mph according to the manual so How can you just apply the rear brake at 40 mph

[@DKCustomProducts]

Kevin talked to him about the wreck and when and how he was applying the brakes as well as doing a frame by frame analysis. You are correct the later models have linked brakes, when using the rear brake pedal you get full rear and it only applies a fraction of the available front brake (2 of the 6 calipers). When using the front (hand) brake it applies full front and some rear. To get full braking power, it is good to use both the front hand brake and the rear foot brake to scrub speed quickly. So when he refers to him using the rear brake he only means that he was not using the hand and foot brake, but rather only the foot brake. Here is a video Kevin and Dwayne recently made on riding a Trike aggressively that you may find interesting - kzbin.info/www/bejne/Y4vOnnt9p7iYqsU and kzbin.info/www/bejne/Zpetg2ejgpZqo7s Thanks for commenting! 😎 MB

[@theChestnutMtnTinman]

@@DKCustomProducts Awesome, that real clears it up. I am a new TriGlide rider-about a month-so this has been very informative. Thanks for the info. 😎😎

[@DKCustomProducts]

You are most welcome! Glad you are liking the videos! Wishing you many miles of smile son your TriGlide!!!! 😎 mb

[@bobh2923]

Just a question, was the front tire the OEM stock?

[@DKCustomProducts]

It was not a stock tire, he had the larger diameter, shorter sidewall, stock Freewheeler front wheel and tire. Thanks for commenting!

[@RonDowdall-i1u]

Good breakdown guys. Trike riders also need to be conscious of how much gear they carry in tour pack. They can get top heavy quick.

[@DKCustomProducts]

That is a great point Glad you like the video. There was very little weight in the Tour Pak....but even if there way, and even if it was up high, this is NOT the cause. When Mary and I go on a road trip, there will be both of our weight (and much of it is up high), then the Tour Pak is full with some pretty heavy things, then the Tour Pak rack is full, sometimes with moderate weight and sometimes with quite a bit of weight(like on our trip to the Arctic Circle) with 2.5 gallons of gas (Yes, for over 15 years we have loaded our Tour Pak and TP rack with over Twice the amount of weight that the little HD sticker says...which I think most recently is 25 lbs). This weight is indiscernible on a Tri Glide and NOT the cause of the wheel lifting. The cause of the wheel lifting is the wrong line chosen and the release of the rear brakes while the throttle was on, at just the wrong spot in the curve. Thanks for commenting! 😎

[@thejerseyj5479]

When riders run wide in a curve they have a tendency to look at the upcoming hazard and fixation with the hazard has caused many accidents. "Where you look, is where you go" may have been a bit of a factor here.

[@DKCustomProducts]

Good add! Thanks for commenting! 👍😎👍

[@patrickobrien5755]

I agree putting your weight to the right, will help controlling the lift. But it doesn't look like he lifted off the gas, when the wheel came up. Jumping off the gas would of dropped the wheel and he possible could have negotiated the curve. I have lifted the inside tire my on my trike, both times on the dragon. Taking a corner too sharp. Both times I was able bring under control by letting off the gas.

[@DKCustomProducts]

Yes, cutting the throttle would help for sure. I spoke with him about it, he does not remember at what point he let up on the throttle. Gotta remember, from the time the rear wheel lifted til when he was in the ditch was less than 2 seconds, closer to 1 second. Not a lot of time to react. That is why the Certified 3 wheeler instructors comment, which is the pinned comment at the top, says- "what we teach and what I do is to have my body WAY over into the inside of the curve BEFORE you enter the curve. I think in this case, having that as SOP in curves might have prevented this. Important note, when things get weird. STAY in that body position. Do NOT straighten up!" The faster one goes (even within the bikes capability) the more chance there is for error and bad outcomes. Front and rear brake should be used to scrub speed off...but when going thru the curve (not before the curve when scrubbing speed) only the rear brakes should be used to control speed...the amount of throttle will not vary. If one wants to go faster, let off the rear brake a bit, if one wants to go slower, apply a bit more rear brake. Thanks for your comment, much appreciated.

[@dennymadden2891]

After riding trikes & sidecars both, they are completly different. Most mishaps are speed related if you are an experienced rider, i know, have had several incidents. Usually steering & throttle will pull you out more than brakes

[@DKCustomProducts]

Yes, in this instance he was riding outside of his capabilities not the Trikes capabilities. Trikes can be ridden aggressively. You can see Kevin riding his Trike on the Tail of The Dragon at this link that you may find interesting- kzbin.info/www/bejne/aYakfn5_n55qfZI Thank you for commenting! MB

[@raybrensike42]

Speed definitely the main factor here, as there is a speed such that it would be impossible for the wheel to leave the ground, and that is the speed to take in a corner on a trike.

[@DKCustomProducts]

He was riding outside of his abilities, but not the Trikes abilities. Trikes can be ridden aggressively! Here is a video of Kevin riding the Tail of The Dragon that you may find interesting - kzbin.info/www/bejne/aYakfn5_n55qfZI Thank you for commenting! MB

[@chuckulen]

His right rear tire lifted two different times. You talk about dragging the rear brake to squat the rear of the trike..... What are your thoughts on Intimidator valves in the forks??? It seems like keeping the front from compressing would have the same affect in both situations??? I've run the Dragon on my trike three times, once since putting in the Intimidators. There was a significant improvement in reducing tire lift, and I was running it pretty aggressively.... With regards to "speed". Yeah, it's possible to go sooooo slow in corners that you eliminate all possibility of tire lift. That speed is not gonna work for everybody. I've done a reasonable amount of trike group riding and would say this group was "faster than average", but in no way was it excessive..... Thanks for the analysis!!!!!!

[@DKCustomProducts]

Hey Chuck! Glad you liked the video, and thank you! 👍😎👍 Yes the second time was when his left tire dropped into the ditch and is front tire started plowing in the ditch. No doubt Intiminators help, as you have experienced in your riding. While altogether possible to negotiate that curve without them and not lift the rear tire, the Intiminators give some extra help, AND they make for a smoother, more controlled ride. Here are a couple of videos on Intiminators for others reading this comment- kzbin.info/www/bejne/hGLGhqOdg69qn5o kzbin.info/www/bejne/ZorIp6aJjs6sp9k And here is a link to a lot more tech details on the Intiminators- www.dkcustomproducts.com/improved-front-suspension-w-intiminator-fork-valves-for-harley-dk-ric-int-39.htm The faster you go the less mistake/misjudgments can be made without consequences...also, there are less options to recover if a mistake/misjudgment was made. Like you inferred, everyone has different riding styles, and some folks ride slower, looking at the scenery, and then later that day, or some other day, they ride much faster, just to enjoy flying thru the curves. We were definitely going faster than a lot of groups I've ridden with, and we were definitely going much slower than if just Mary and I were riding that road alone.

[@garyrhode3755]

Most of all, Thankful the rider was wearing a motorcycle helmet and ok over all/ Is it possible the Trike Tires were over inflated, or entering the curve at a little lower speed maybe would have been able to ride thru the curve.? (i have never ridden a Trike motorcycle) Happy Holidays and ride safe...:)

[@DKCustomProducts]

Absolutely happy he came thru relatively unscathed. Yes, riding thru the curve slower would have made it unlikely to lift a rear tire, even if everything else was the same. No, the Trike tires were not over inflated. Thank you, Happy Holidays, and wishing your many miles of smiles on your ride! 👍

[@scottthornton9237]

First of all, I do not ride a trike but, an Ultra. I watched and listened to both videos. My thoughts began with his entering lane position, then down tight near the apex, thus forcing a wide exit. Although Kevin, explained his lane positioning in the first video. I still disagree with this method of lane positioning. I ride and drive twisties a lot. Always a delayed entry into the curve and track the outside, util the exit is in full view. Why would three wheels change this? And the one aspect of this accident that only the rider can possibly know... Where was he looking and when? Glad to know that he was able to ride if from the disaster!

[@DKCustomProducts]

Thank you for the comment, and we are super happy he was able to ride away. Just got word that the insurance company totaled the bike out. Not sure I understand how you negotiate the twisties....sounds like you are saying that you pretty much ride the center line into and thru the curve? Whether on 2 wheels or 3 wheels, the vast majority of the time I apex the curves, for that matter, it works best in a cage also. It is pretty much accepted as the fastest way to negotiate a curve....outside-inside-outside. The one difference is that on 3 wheels, sometimes it makes the most sense to take the inside of the curve all the way thru. I don't do that on 2 wheels, but on 3 it can keep that inside tire, which is always tempted to lift when riding aggressively, down low. It accomplishes the same thing as leaning my body weight into the curve, but even better. Now, if I am just tooling along, no big hurry, then taking a particular line is not a priority.

[@scottthornton9237]

@@DKCustomProducts Anytime a delayed entrance to a turn is used, It places the rider on the outside of the curve when entering that curve. The apex of the road, may differ from the riders apex based on the view of the exit. I could care less if i am at the full inside at any time. Point is a to have the best possible field of view through said curve to allow more time for any surprises (loose gravel, camber, oncoming traffic, anything whatsoever). On a right hand curve yes, one is nearer the centerline but, leaned into my own lane. On a Left curve, farthest away from centerline and again, leaned into my own lane. (On entering). Exiting can be made in any best position. So its kind of a outside-inside-outside, however disregarding the pavements inside. Thus placing the bikes tires in the cages tire scrub zone.

[@DKCustomProducts]

Understood, and you bring up a great point (that I do without even realizing it).... have the best possible field of view through said curve to allow more time for any surprises (loose gravel, camber, oncoming traffic, anything whatsoever) Thanks for your comment and input. Much appreciated. 👍😎👍

[@FFL-vg9ro]

In order to shift weight quickly, he would have to have his right knee against the tank with tension on his right inside thigh, the same as you’d do on an ATV. Your upper body can’t move quickly to the inside, unless you are preloading your inside thigh muscles. Thats how I ride the Freewheeler in the twisties.

[@DKCustomProducts]

That is definitely where practice kicks in. Muscle memory is so important when you only have a split second to respond! Thanks for commenting!

[@tomhadoulias7571]

Let's understand one of the Harley Trikes shortcomings. It has no differential at the rear wheels. Its live axle contributes greatly to its instability, especially in this scenario. As a result of this configuration, the outer wheel in the turn must turn at a faster rate than the inside wheel. As the turn continues, it is my strong opinion that the inside wheel in this situation was "scrubbing" acting as a brake Until the rear brakes were released and the inside wheel now was effectively "unloaded" by loss of traction. Kevin is right, the brake release caused the bike to move upright from its squatted position. Then the inside wheel released for two reasons, brake release, and built-up torque in the live axle, it too released all its energy at the same time. A lot more plays into this, road condition, tire condition and tread pattern, traction on the roadway. 37 years of spacecraft physics led me to this conclusion. I have ridden a trike for years, anyone who even plays with destabilizing a trikes balance knows exactly what I mean. You can see it in many of Kevin's videos. Point is.... you need to know what the forces are you're dealing with and you can take them out of the equation with modified riding style. Perhaps Kevin needs to do a course in riding in unusual attitudes?

[@DKCustomProducts]

Harley Trikes do NOT HAVE LIVE AXLES. Only one of the rear tires, at any given point in time is putting power to the ground (and it is the one with the least amount of traction). Yes, we have already recorded, and it will be released soon, on how to navigate curves on a Trike Safely and on unusual surfaces.

[@tomhadoulias7571]

@@DKCustomProducts Well I'm happy to stand corrected and perhaps "live axle" was the wrong wording for Harley's rear-drive system. I'm not debating here and I am not a Harley Design engineer, but I am a mechanical engineer and familiar with automotive differentials. What you are describing is a "limited slip" differential. And if that is the case, as soon as the inside wheel left the ground the outer wheel should transfer its drive power to that wheel as you describe; "(and it is the one with the least amount of traction).", removing driving force to the outside wheel and slowing the trike down. Again, just trying to gain some knowledge here from you guys who do this all the time. All of the stuff I have seen; parts breakdowns etc. don't appear to be a differential. My experience with my trike although I never push the envelope suggests otherwise. I've seen your videos Kevin and they are very descriptive of unbalancing a trike, yet, I'm still unsure of the dynamics involved. I am looking forward to your upcoming video on navigating curves and should you have a specific design example that describes how Harley's Trike differentials were designed I'd love to see it. Again, this is a learning experience for me. Inquisitive minds like to know. Thanks!

[@DKCustomProducts]

Here is an image of the schematic of the HD Trike Differential- www.dkcustomproducts.com/image/Links_2/HD%20Trike%20Differential%20schematic.jpg How you describe a limited slip differential working is how the HD Trike Diff works. See image linked above. No, does not look like an automotive diff, but it does function very well. Video on navigating curves should be published soon....by end of year I hope. Almost done editing it. Wishing you many miles of smiles on your HD Trike! 👍

[@tomhadoulias7571]

@@DKCustomProducts Thanks Kevin! You're right... that's the first parts breakdown I've ever seen where it's actually called a differential. There are so many descriptions of what it is classified as. Even the top mechanics at my dealership won't describe it as a differential. Most salesmen are clueless, calling it whatever you want to hear. I'd love to see one taken apart and explained in detail, perhaps a video as part of this series if you guys have an opportunity to do something like that. It would be a great service to the Harley Trike community. Even Harley's competitors that produce trike conversions use statements that suggest Harley's do not have differential compensation as a selling point for their product. Thanks for the explanation and taking the time to respond. You guys have a great Holiday! Keep up the great work!

[@DKCustomProducts]

No problem! Glad to help Happy Holidays!!!! 🎄

[@leland9902]

Very low sound. Can hardly hear when turn up all the way.

[@DKCustomProducts]

I am sorry that you had a hard time hearing the video. We are using good mics and recording equipment. We will keep this in mind the next video we make and try to make sure the sound is higher. Thanks for commenting!

[@Crslawncare13]

Lack of training will do this.. everybody needs to have a pre-ride reset emergency breaking U-turn and move the bike side to side, avoidance, skill a practice before every long ride or short ride

[@DKCustomProducts]

Practice is certainly important for those split second decision moments! Thanks for commenting!

[@Crslawncare13]

@@DKCustomProducts most definitely 👍🏻

[@DKCustomProducts]

Ride Safe! 👍

[@ArcAngel572nc]

Again, this is not an "off camber" curve! It's banked, not much, but it is banked. Also, there is no "trail braking" on a bike with linked brakes! Another thing is that it doesn't matter if the hand brake was not used to lockup the front tire because applying the foot brake also applies the front wheel brake in a linked brake system and when the rear wheel comes off the ground and spins faster than the front it disables the ABS and the front wheel locked up causing the trike to flip. I'm not new at this. I know how to ride properly and I know how the mechanics and systems of a bike work because I'm a Professional Harley Davidson technician that makes a living working on them and have also raced bikes more than 25 years of my life.

[@DKCustomProducts]

Thanks for you comment. I was there...saw the whole thing happen. The curve IS a little off camber, regardless of how it looks in the video. As a HD Tech, I would think that you would know that the the front brake did NOT lock up when the rear tire lifted. At the bottom, below, is a video where I repeated lift the rear tire, on purpose, sometimes with the brakes on, sometimes not. At no point were the front brakes activated enough that I even felt them. Back to the accident....perhaps this video linked here- kzbin.info/www/bejne/Zpetg2ejgpZqo7s has more detail on how I, and many others, use trail braking on a linked RDRS Trike effectively. Trail braking ABSOLUTELY works on the HD Trikes. This is not theory, nor based on what is taught in a tech school, it is 10's of thousands of miles experience in the curves. kzbin.info/www/bejne/aYuXeYFsgdtmodE In the above video you can see, around the 45 second mark, the rear brakes are clearly on with the left rear tire off the ground. This is a linked brake Tri Glide. Obviously the front brakes did not lock up, they did not even activate enough to feel them. KP

[@petermichelson3865]

So here is the major question! Knowing of this accident, and the last 12 accidents since 2019 that made the new with a lawsuit against Harley why are their beginner, intermediate, and advanced trike classes, and training clinics to go to? Why isn’t Harley providing training classes? I so by a trike, but every time I go to a dealership the folks are are rude as Fk, all they want to do is sell trikes with zero training saying that you only need a Class C drivers license. This is San Diego County! CMSP refuses to teach trike classes.

[@DKCustomProducts]

Sounds like you want to know why there are NOT training classes? In 2022, there were a total of 10,597 motorcycle accidents in California. These accidents resulted in 8,632 injuries and 532 fatalities. Got no idea what training is available out your way. Maybe call HD corporate if you want to know if they have any, or if not, why? We can't answer for them. From the number of 2 wheeler accidents, listed above, seems like a lot of folks could benefit from a class. Regarding rude dealerships, ignore them. Find a good one. Here is a video on How to do that- kzbin.info/www/bejne/f5u9d4afpKh6gJY Here is a good primer video we made about moving from 2 wheels to 3- kzbin.info/www/bejne/ipiZao2JebqNlbM

[@petermichelson3865]

@@DKCustomProducts I don’t care about two wheel accidents! As you take the Motorcycle dmv testing it tells you very clearly 1. In the first 6 months folks have their motorcycles they are the ones who cause the most accidents. Why, let’s see, they rode above their beginner skills sets, they buy to big of a bike, they think, serious problem, they getting their dmv endorsement is the only training they need, they fail to learn the rules of how to be safe, they don’t take further training to advance their skill sets, they never ever learned safety is paramount. I call Harley Davidson headquarters, visited all the major Harley gold dealerships in Southern California, spoke to CSMP, and Rideright, Biggs Harley, Twisted Throttle, and Can Am Home Office, and Ride right. I also took the 4 hr ride right course for Can Am. They didn’t have the 8 hr class because when they offered it no one signed up so Can Am pulled their supply of training bikes. Where is the safety & operational training? To me Safety is always paramount. As a USN Active Duty Navy Chief this is what I was taught, and I taught my enter time in the USN for 22 years 6 months. It’s tragic when you look at other states that have the license requirements who allow you to take the endorsement training but you have to be a state resident to do so!

[@DKCustomProducts]

All good points you make. Thank you for sharing them.

[@norbertmaron3635]

What year trike was this,2021 trikes and newer comes with RDRS,plus how long and how much experience does this person have..if your not familiar with roads with curves you need to slow down and ALWAYS REMEMBER RIDE YOUR OWN RIDE,don't be in a hurry to..glad the person was ok..hope that person learned a valuable lesson on planning ahead while riding your 2 wheel bike or 3 wheel bike on the dos and don't riding on unfamiliar roads and curves😂😂😂😂😂

[@DKCustomProducts]

You are 100% correct. It is important to ride within your abilities especially when riding in a group! We should have said he was not riding too fast for the Tri Glide capabilities, but was riding faster than his capabilities. After miles and miles of curves you can certainly get fatigued and that can pose a real issue. Although he had gone thru more challenging curves, even faster, it was obviously at the edge of his abilities and this one curve bit him because there was no "cushion", he was at the edge. This video does break down exactly what happened. Thanks for commenting! MB

[@johncantelon7071]

Slow down then accelerate gradually through the turn.

[@DKCustomProducts]

Here is a video we've made on Riding a Trike Aggressively that you may find interesting - kzbin.info/www/bejne/Y4vOnnt9p7iYqsU Thank you for commenting! MB

[@craigkemmerzell5741]

That straight axel in the back is a bad idea I think Harley shit the bed with this We put them in the back because they cant keep up and they are always in the way I dont think its there fault its its a bad design 🤔

[@DKCustomProducts]

We have an entire video exploring Independent rear suspension on Harley's and other trikes that is coming out in the next month. There is a myth that IRS is more stable (less likely to tip over) than a straight axle Harley trike. In the upcoming video this myth is dispelled by a major Harley Trike Conversion company that makes IRS conversions. IRS trikes actually feel more tippy than straight axle trikes. The reason is that most folks go with IRS to get a softer, or more compliant ride quality...so to do that they have the shocks adjusted fairly soft. Here is a quote from the IRS conversion companies website. "If the roll stiffness is too soft, the rider feels a false sense of doom. If the trike leans too much, the rider feels as if he/she is going to tip over or slide out of control." We cover this, and more in the video coming out soon. Here is a video of us riding the Dragon on a Trike that you may find interesting- kzbin.info/www/bejne/aYakfn5_n55qfZI Thanks for commenting! 👍😎👍

[@steelmanwright]

For me, after watching this is too Slow Down

[@DKCustomProducts]

Definitely do not be riding outside of your skill level! Thanks for commenting!

[@tracyjones6284]

Harley Trikes are unstable. It doesn't take much to turn one over. When encountering curves, you should always slow down. I personally have experience with older trikes and learned when I encountered curves, I straightened the curve and I also leaned into the curve just to make sure that the inside tire stayed on the ground.

[@DKCustomProducts]

Can't agree with you on the Trike being inherently unstable due to design. Here is a video of some aggressive riding on a HD Trike that you may find interesting- kzbin.info/www/bejne/aYakfn5_n55qfZI Thanks for commenting! 😎

[@weaselweasel8034]

He was hauling ass

[@DKCustomProducts]

They were all going a similarly fast speed! 👍😎 Thanks for commenting! MB

[@pastorjohnculbertson661]

Rsds does not belong on trikes!

[@DKCustomProducts]

If you are referring to RDRS, I do not like any of those nanny controls either. HOWEVER, this Tri Glide is a 2015 and does not have RDRS. Thanks for the comment. 👍

[@pastorjohnculbertson661]

@DKCustomProducts it does have the same rake as all of Harley's two wheel motorcycles. It's why I prefer a trike conversion from California side car, they rake and add a cobra trike tire to the front. It's easier to steer and the death wobble is eliminated.

[@DKCustomProducts]

I am glad you are happy with your Trike. Trail and Rake work hand in hand, affecting the steering. The trail on a Tri-Glide is 3.94" and the trail on the Ultra Classic is 6.7" This makes a huge difference, even though the rake is the same on both. Here is an article on the subject that you may find interesting/useful- www.dkcustomproducts.com/media/wysiwyg/framesuspension/lifts/comfort/Understanding_Rake_and_Trail.pdf