What I learned from judging a photo competition

[@ianrolfesouthernlightscapes]

Hi there Ewen, a very thought provoking discussion and presentation. Interesting to read a few of the other comments, and I agree with some and some I do not. Camera clubs are attracting younger members and as some people have a change in their lifestyle they look for new things to participate in. The biggest problem I see with many clubs is that they are stuck in a kind of time warp. They are afraid to change! But I see this in the professional world as well... and they are setting a bad example totally! Many many pro's in Australia and internationally, are totally obsessed with competitions, and it gives the wrong impression. They fill facebook with their trophy shots and congratulate each other, and it's just so much tripe! No wonder the beginners and mainly enthusiasts that make up the majority of the club memberships think competitions are the way to go, they see it glaringly promoted in the professional field. I travel to many clubs and societies in Victoria, and am heartened to see some changes coming in, albiet very slowly. Some clubs now only hold 2 or 3 comps a year, with the remaining time spent in educational pursuits and other club outings. A lot of clubs no longer score or have a point system, rather, it's just a night of critiquing and encouraging improvement in the craft. Clubs are doing themselves a real disfavour having too many competitions in a given year, as there is a lack of good qualified Judges, that can give and honest and unbiased critique anyway! The APJA is doing a fine job of running educational courses on Judging, having mentors, and a system of proficiency, but is struggling to get numbers who are interested in advancing, and enough people to be on the Judges list once qualified. It's becoming a real problem. You handled this so well Ewen, with a great degree of diplomacy! Unfortunately, some will see this a negative viewpoint. I hope not, because your presentation was so refreshingly honest, and you hit the real crux of why we take photographs even at all. There are 75 clubs and societies in Victoria alone, totalling nearly 3800 members, and what we really need is for this KZbin to be shown and discussed in all of them! Without exception. Thank-you Ewen, it was a real honest and inspirational look at this very polarised subject.

[@EwenBell]

Impressive reply Ian and thanks for weighing in. Probably need to make a new video just talking to you about your experiences and advice now :) Yes I did see one comment that was short tempered and half-baked. Not sure he even watched my video or was maybe replying to something totally different!

[@helenbrecknell3930]

So well said. Thank you

[@garygoldsmith2889]

Superb commentary. I love comments that go to the heart of why we take photos, what is a good aesthetic, how an image affects us. Especially honest and modest in expressing your point of view. Good analysis of the relation between planning and instinctive reactions to a photographic moment. Gave me some new things to think about that makes this a rare video in its depth.

[@EwenBell]

Thanks so much Gary :)

[@noelbutcher906]

A well expressed viewpoint about the lack of value in most camera club competitions. I have dabbled in judging club comps and it is a process that I do not enjoy because it is so superficial. I was advised, by a long standing judge, when I first foolishly thought about judging, to always say three things about an image, two of which had to be 'nice'and the other could be negative. There must be a better way.

[@EwenBell]

I totally understand why there's a need to sandwich the critique in between nice comments. But it also underlies the problem doesn't it!

[@valdiskrebs566]

Excellent analysis … exactly why I quit my camera club after 1 year. I would rather share my work with a few trusted others than with unknown strangers who are afraid to be different .

[@CGadney]

Hi Ewen, this is an interesting conversation, especially as I'm looking at joining our local photography club (UK), I have been warned off joining in the past for the very reason you talk about, however, I'm hoping my local club has a good balance of competition vs learning experiences. Their programme appears to be that way inclined compared to other clubs in the local towns. Time will tell! The potential for competitions judged on technical ability and having my work marked subjectively by someone based on that alone and also their personal taste, fills me with dread!. I'm still on my journey and have yet to find that one genre that truly inspires me and I can say... yes! that's what speaks to me, that's my voice.... I'm getting there slowly. Maybe what I should be doing is taking workshops in different techniques and genres as opposed to joining a club. Don't worry, I'm not looking for answers as there is no right answer. I think sometimes though, it would be great to have someone to arrange a day of photography with a like minded friend and go off for the day.... Maybe that's what's missing from my journey, someone to bounce ideas off....someone who isn't biased towards my images (Family) and I agree with you, we can't succeed in photography alone.

[@EwenBell]

Finding the right club is very important. Some lean more one way than another. Sharing the journey and having someone to inspire you can make all difference too. I've been lucky to share my career with some fabulous people. Workshops are a good idea. I mostly run longer tours that go for two weeks, but there's often shorter versions where you spend a long weekend capturing waterfalls or learning to do street photography. Sometimes they're organised by the clubs!

[@douglasinall9530]

Well said Ewen Bell

[@EwenBell]

Thanks Douglas!

[@Kevin_YouTube]

This is a great video and really highlights what I see as the problem with social camera clubs. After being in many camera clubs over the years, I have now had to walk away from then as they are so focused on gathering points for the end of year awards nights. Also, I've listened to members conversations slamming judges decisions as "they just don't get it". I've also sat through nights of "needs to be cropped" "should have tried a different lens" taken in the wrong light" and no-one being asked, "can you tell me a little of what motivated you to create this image?". In my experience, camera clubs are now the domain of the older generation and do not attract younger members due to the lack of creative freedom (note that I'm 65+). I agree that CC do often have a good social element but in most cases, they are held during work hours (Thursday coffee meet up, Wednesday walk the city etc.). Even then, they are often timed and located to provide opportunities for images that suit the upcoming monthly competition ! Thank you again for making this video.

[@EwenBell]

Well said Kevin :)

[@peterfritzphoto]

This is an outstanding dissertation on the chronic limitations of traditional photography competitions or critiques. I nodded so much through this video, my head hurts. I hope some competition creators, curators and judges see this and take heed.

[@EwenBell]

It's ironic that anyone would ask me to judge their comp. It suggests they haven't read every chapter in my book :)

[@peterfritzphoto]

@@EwenBell How dare they!

[@x-pat-life1979]

direct and honest.. and true. thank you!

[@EwenBell]

👍

[@IronChefShellie]

There's no right or wrong answer when it comes to judging art is there. I think you handled it well and glad they got value out of your visit to the club too.

[@EwenBell]

Thanks Shellie! They were a nice mob and very well organised :)

[@rogerhyland8283]

I really appreciated much of what you were saying about judging and competitions. I also liked your comments about intention and hard work making you luckier.

[@EwenBell]

I have many a good many people who work hard, and frankly deserved a lot more luck. Not to say it's a cure for every situation. But it's hard to imagine moving forward without putting in the effort :)

[@ChristineWilsonPhotography]

Generally don't go into comps , I dont understand how one person on any given day can access an individual photo . Even my mindset can change from day to day 😊 agree it's flawed. I do like your icm images , your right too, were obsessed with ranking and scoring. It's art for heavens sake we need the freedom to make it .That last photo you show is my favourite I love it

[@EwenBell]

Thankyou Christine!

[@jan-martinulvag1962]

creativity and perception are mutually exclusive

[@kaczynski2333]

Good video. Followed. Not only will I no longer enter competitions; I'm no longer posting to social media.

[@EwenBell]

There are better social media platforms out there than offered by Zuck or Musk. Mastodon has been a source of great joy for me over the past year. Lots of lovely photographers on there and easy to find once you setup an account and start looking for photography related hashtags.

[@TarrelScot]

Hmm.. Long time competition participant and CC president here, and I have also judged a fair few competitions. Forgive the idioms, but photography is a "Broad Church" and, as you point out in the video, people make photographs for many and multiple reasons. Within that broad church I believe there is room for camera clubs, even with their somewhat formulaic approach to what constitutes a "good" image. If there are photographers out there who wish to excel within the defined confines of the "camera club competition entry" and its associated judging approach, then why not? It's no different from, say, a gardening club member who excels in the somewhat narrow field of producing a prize Alpine or Orchid. Doesn't make them a good gardener, or a poor one, just someone who puts a great deal of importance into producing the best Alpine. When asked to judge a club competition I see my duty as being foremost to the club and its members. If the club wants me to conform to a particular judging approach, scoring system, etc, then I will do so because I know how disruptive it can be to do otherwise. If the club decide they want to get their members thinking more broadly and creatively about their photography, then they can choose to bring in a guest speaker to cover that kind of area. I judged a comp recently that had a print category and I was asked not to take account of the mounting, etc of the print. It drove me nuts because I happen to think that is a critical part of presenting a print, but I did it because those were the rules of the club of which I was a guest. My own club uses a judge quite often who has no hesitation in asking if the author is in the room and engaging them in a discussion about what they were trying to achieve with the image, why they took a particular approach, etc. It can cause some discomfort as we have a policy of anonymity, unless the image scores particularly highly. But on balance we believe the learning for the individual and the audience as a whole outweighs the disadvantages, so we allow it. The role of camera clubs and club competitions in photography often creates some quite polarized debate. I suppose in summary my view is that it doesn't have to be a zero-sum game. There's room for all kinds of approaches in this wonderful art-form we call photography. It's a skill and practice that unifies everyone, from the hobby camera club member through to the professional commercial photographer, and everything in between.

[@EwenBell]

I appreciate you taking the time to share your thoughts Mark. On a personal level, I was just the wrong person to invite for the job. But I was also impressed with the depth and variety of activities this particular club had organised for their members to create a diverse set of opportunities to learn. That's what I'll remember most about the experience :)

[@techlist5049]

Photography, art, and wine competitions are the most senseless and useless events that people practice in this day and age, as they don't adhere to the fundamentals of measurements: standardisation, reliability, or validity. (Needless to say, the subjective vs objective argument or consistency.) That said, you made a valid point at 7:10, a photograph != digital art... If someone is editing to find an expression that reflects a lack of competency.

[@clairerobinson2006]

I agree with your conclusion that ICM is different from digitally composited photographic images and may be considered separately, but perhaps with overlapping features. I do find it disappointing that you don’t seem to appreciate your own words “The act and photography meet is the act of expression” with alternative approaches to the photographic arts” with expansion beyond pure “in-camera” as another way of expression through photography. I’m not speaking of mimicing ICM with convenient digital programs, but creating a piece of art that expresses a vision. Your appreciation and love of ICM as an art is evident. Your dislike of the use digital (not AI) is also evident. Consider opening up to look at the intent of artists who skillfully create art with expanded artistic tools.

[@EwenBell]

It's a video about photography, not digital art! It's about judging a photo competition, not a digital art competition. I even cited an example of a digital artist I really love.

[@jan-martinulvag1962]

People ask what is art. I ask what is an artist. If you are not an artist you cant make art.

[@andreaswenson5661]

Hi Ewen I greatly enjoyed watching your video and I have to say, you are not entirely right and you are not entirely wrong. I am president of a smallish (52-member) photography club. We have two meetings a month. One is a workshop by an invited speaker and the other is an evaluation (read judging) on an assigned topic. I have to start by saying that I do feel that many judges/evaluators are stuck in time. I have hoped during my tenure that I could find a way to have evaluations judged as they do in Olympic ice dancing. One score for technical and one score for creative - averaged together. But this is where we separate company. We have a range from beginners to advanced to “salon” and regardless of “one judge’s opinion”, there are truths to be gleaned for all levels. Our members often do not have “bodies of work”. We set out assigned topics in order to get members motivated to go out and shoot. So, yes, they may only have individual shots. But we try to have speakers’ topics, when possible, coordinating with upcoming evaluations. This way members can act upon concrete information. Camera clubs are as much about camaraderie as shooting. Covid has put a huge dent in socializing. We now meet both on Zoom and in person. We have three mentors that any member can contact with a question. And we have field trips. During the summer months, we have a user-friendly “Members’ Open Critique. There is an assigned subject each month and we meet on Zoom; more to chat about where, when, and how rather than “critique”. I think that fits in with your talking about content. I feel the club strongly serves its members despite any flaws. Members can choose not to participate in evaluations. We occasionally send out surveys asking if we should eliminate evaluations. Surprise, most members want to keep them. It certainly surprised me. With all that said, we would love to have more speakers like yourself who motivate as well as educate. Thank you for listening to me.

[@EwenBell]

Thanks for taking the time to respond with such detail and consideration. As I mentioned in my video, the list of activities this club was doing to engage their members and give them opportunities to learn was wonderful. As I also mentioned, I am the wrong person to invite to judge a competition!