What if Atatürk Never Existed?

[@benetgamingchanel4055]

I want to ask the Turkish viewers(if there are any) about your opinions on Mustafa kemal's secularisation and modernization reforms that he implemented in Turkey. Where the reforms overall good for Turkey or was it bad?

[@wimblewomble4751]

I think overall it was very good for turkey, it laid a strong base for the future of the nation and it is a shame that erdogan is undoing it

[@firattekeli6145]

Name me one economic or technological Archivment during Mustafa Kemals rule ?

[@ErenAlpErtem]

Baf

[@spacehunters1087]

@@firattekeli6145 Well if you really want to see that moves than you can check the google but I can say some of them in here. First of all, He builded total of 46 big factory that can hold almost 100.000 workers in that. Apart from that, On his time We was Produce twice on Coal 6x on Copper total of 4x on almost all metal production, 50x on sugar ,18x on total of food like vegetabels and fruits, 500x on cotton, silk and linen 20x and wool 4x. He builded factorys that could produce their own ammunations, Aircraft, ships and guns, Even he tried to produce tanks but he couldnt do that because of his life. He make people richer. Turkish people couldnt even ate bread easily but after 8-10 years of Independence war people could buy things they want and could buy foods easily like sugar to milk, pastas to meat. He paid %80 the 100 years debt of Ottoman Empire. And the country growth rate was %8 between 1923-1933 and %5 between 1933-1942. He did correct movements on Great Depression and Turkey almost never took a damage from that. between 1924-1939 the Industry Grow rate total of %30 , Agriculture %67 and service was %54. He make people more free and gave rights to man and woman. ın his time Turkey could produce Aircraft better than most of the Europe. In his time we could buy back All the things we was sold to outside in Ottoman empire. He build the first bank of the Turkey and with that farmers and Industry could grow really fast. End of in his life the Turkey was growth his gdp 5x and build acountry that could produce everything they need with stable economy and educated people. Thats the things he did. If you want to learn thing like that read the Sources that are trustable and check them all.

[@NeoNima]

reforms were what turkey needed. after the long rule of ottomans there were only uncivilised anatolia left and he civilised it and made turkey a modern country. what he did for turkey can not be forgiven we love Ataturk and what he did for us.

[@benetgamingchanel4055]

I can't believe you included 'Built different' as one of the reasons why Atatürk was responsible for the resistance victory.

[@RebaoneNtlailane-c4g]

Fax tho

[@BerkoEdits]

Yea it is

[@justinpachi3707]

Honestly even with Attaturk the war could have ended in a stalemate as the Greeks had a over a year of time before the Turkish counteroffensive got into the full swing booting them out from the Smyrna occupation zone. Greece could have easily dug in and fortified what they had, but cartoonish incompetence on the part of the Anastasios Papoulas (someone who made Cadorna look competent) led to them twiddling their thumbs as the Turkish army advanced. Papoulas was so bad he had no real military education and didn't even attend a military academy. He only got his command due to the purge of pro-venezelist officers that occurred upon King Constantine's return. Papoulas had connections to prominent anti-Venezelists and up until the war's end was a staunch royalist. Honestly even without Attaturk there might have been other figures who could have risen to the challenge of leading the Turkish defense. As for Italy, I doubt they'd get anything as by the time of the Greco Turkish War they had already pulled out of the war and were supporting the Turks against the Greeks. You're best bet for something akin to a "Greater Greece" would probably be avoiding King George I's assassination. That or not having his younger grandson Alexander dying of an infected monkey bite (though who knows how long he'd live given his reckless lifestyle). If you avoid the national schism between King Constantine and Venezelos, you could have have had Greece join in early on the Entente's side and they would have secured East Thrace and would have had foreign support in Asia Minor.

[@benetgamingchanel4055]

Thanks for sharing this obscure historical information that is never mentioned in these types of alternate history videos.

[@00martoneniris86]

Alexander was Constantine 1 son not George the first

[@justinpachi3707]

@@00martoneniris86 Thanks for catching that. I meant to say grandson.

[@blueking7425]

Love the work as always. ❤

[@Ali-bu6lo]

1) The reforms of Reza Shah in Iran were essentially toned down versions of those done by Ataturk and the reforms under his son, Mohammadreza Shah were less harsh versions of those implemented by Reza Shah. So without Ataturk the reforms in Iran would be more toned down as well. The 1979 revolution and the Islamic republic were the results of many things but both the backlash to these reforms and the Shah absolutely alienating everyone played a role. With less radical reforms, at least some portions of his base won't abandon him, leading to an Iran which probably avoids the revolution and transitions back to a real constitutional monarchy once the Shah dies of cancer. 2) With an Armenia which is a lot bigger and stronger, the Karabakh war would be far more decisive as Armenia would just annex and settle Karabakh after the war. During the war, an Armenian march on Baku and forcing the Azeri government to surrender is not out of question, at that point Iran would probably intervene to mediate a peace deal and take over the rump Azerbaijan as an Iranian puppet. 3) I think some of Ataturk reforms would still happen. The Ottoman empire had already modernized to some extant and thus they have the potential to implement the reforms that make most sense such as the adoption of surnames. 4) I think in this scenario, a possible alternative to Mussolini could be less insane but still autocratic and right-wing regime. Something like the Portuguese Estado Novo, was there any right-wing movement in Italy at the time beside Fascists? 5) What do think would happen to the lands French took in Anatolia? Returning them to Turkey? A separate state? Part of Syria? If it's the latter then the Syrian collapse of this world is gonna be a lot more chaotic with a large Turkish and Armenian minority up north.

[@HistorysInfluence]

Great information here

[@bakthihapuarachchi3447]

Another interesting point is that the founder of Pakistan based his country on Turkey and wanted it to be a similar, secular republic. This failed, but Pakistan would still be quite different without the country that inspired it's creator not existing. For example, the Pakistani flag with it's Turkish style star and crescent, would be different

[@Ali-bu6lo]

@@bakthihapuarachchi3447 The rise of someone like General Zia who turned Pakistan towards Sharia law probably happen earlier in that case. I'm not sure about the flag, the current Turkish flag has been in use since the Ottoman times.

[@mahaarshad3820]

​@@bakthihapuarachchi3447there could be a good chance of the founder of Pakistan, qaid e azzam to probably base his reforms off Iran in this timeline , and or lead to even closer ties to iran

[@Hasanaljadid]

Reza Shah isn’t comparable with Ataturk

[@viperzed7053]

So the whole entire country of turkey could have been in a way worse situation if one man never existed 🤔

[@firattekeli6145]

Only a fool thinks History depends on decisions of few men

[@samiiiyusufff]

​@@firattekeli6145Well, the borders were already drawn and the Ottomans already accepted defeat. Ataturk certainly saved the nation. I could safely say that Turkey wouldn't have existed without Ataturk.

[@k.umquat8604]

Even without Atatürk we would have fended off the invaders at some point, because wars are won not just with one man's resolve,but the strength of an entire nation. But without his vision, Turkey would be in shackles for many more years.Side notes: -the picture at 3:34 shows Mustafa Kemal in Tripolitania during the Italo-Ottoman war (1913), not in Gallipoli (1915) - 5:45 The "Kurdistan" region would be the subject of a plebiscite which would vote on the creation of a new Kurdish state. In addition, the various Entente occupation zones and the Straits International zone are not mentioned in this map.

[@duplicafly98]

I can see Mussolini still taking power in this timeline, but why would he still side with the axis? Surely the relation between France/UK and Italy would be waaay better with Italy gaining those turkish lands

[@HistorysInfluence]

good point, although italy's hunger for moreeeee would be satiated by a certain Austrian painter

[@duplicafly98]

@@HistorysInfluence Would it tho? both of them were pretty at odds on what to do with Austria + with closer ties to the West I don't think it's unreasonable to argue they might have been neutral at the very least

[@bakthihapuarachchi3447]

In our timeline, the Italian invasion of Ethiopia, which was condemned by Britain and France was what led to the split between those countries and Italy siding with the Axis, which would still happen in this timeline

[@korkukokusu8311]

cool vid . loved every part of it , thanks for making it.

[@danielsantiagourtado3430]

Thanks For this! Love your content ❤❤❤❤

[@micahistory]

Truly fascinating alternate history. Really shows you just how much one man can change history. Quite incredible

[@00martoneniris86]

What if Bulgaria captured Constantinople in the Balkan war

[@CarlStein]

They would lose it in the second war

[@zshivkonezshivkov380]

Bulgaria was threatened by the UK not to do it. Most likely if an occupation happened it would result in international sanctions by the Great Powers like Russia, the UK and France. Other than that Bulgaria would loose it during the Second Balkan War and nothing much else would change besides maybe Constantinople becoming a international free city or at least a demilitarised zone and with larger foreign influence in it.

[@00martoneniris86]

What if Persia joined the central powers

[@00martoneniris86]

What if an arab Assyrian Jewish and Kurdish state was created in the former ottoman Arabia

[@shzarmai]

Awesome video, btw, what software do you use for your videos??.

[@HistorysInfluence]

the adobe creative cloud suite mostly. adobe illustrator for maps and thumbnails, photoshop for slides, premier pro for video editing, adobe audition for narration.

[@shzarmai]

@@HistorysInfluence thank you sire.

[@FilmCritictheone]

I don't see Greece taking all of Italian Anatolia. With Greece still being occupied in WW2 they'd still be in a weaked position that would discourage the acquisition of more territory to administer. Combine that with American ideas of self determination, and the Turks already living in Italian Anatolia preferring to keep there land and live under a Turkic government. I can see some minor Anatolia expansion for Greece alongside all of Rhodes and Cyprus but not much else.

[@highgrounder5238]

I feel like Greeks might turn fascist and join the axis as well to reclaim Constantinople, since they'd be in the same position as Italy was after the war. I could see them invading Turkey in 41 with German and Italian assistance (Hitler admired Greece and it would fit Musslini's roman larp). From there they could threaten the Baku oil fields, but i doubt they'd get them, though i would expect the Soviets to do slightly worse, maybe losing Leningrad. I suspect Greece would be invaded by the Allies rather than the soviets, who also couldn't supply large armies across the Caucasus. Whether Greece keeps Constantinople depends on with whom the Turks side during the invasion - the Soviets or the Allies. The latter might seem an obvious choice, but in 41 the Allies were overstretched while the Soviets were right there. Even if the Sultan objected, the military could force his hand. If they side with Soviets, Greeks might keep the city, but not if they join the Allies, though i wouldn't expect them to leave the occupied Turkish lands willingly and there could be border clashes into the late 40s.

[@jaredvale]

So Italy and Greece would, in this timeline, be Neo Western and Eastern Roman empires respectively.

[@DeanMonsieur]

Amazing video 🫡

[@HistorysInfluence]

Thanks mate

[@micahistory]

yo, i just watched your video

[@JedidiahPang]

I'm sure the comment section will be respectful and civil

[@randomguy6152]

WW2 if all ideas for the victorious powers were realized other than USA and UK France gets to destroy Germany, Greek Megali idea is realized, Italy gets all its claims outside of Greek claims and more

[@bossy1496]

Turkey would collapse due to the complete lack of any economic base, would be a very unstable country. and probably see communist funded elements, by the soviets, take power in Turkey. Italy would never go ultranationalist or join the axis as assuming all their territorial ambitions are achieved (including their claims on France being gained) they'd not have the feeling of a mutilated victory, and would know their losses would've paid off, although, mussolini, may still take power due to the shit economic situation, but be much less radical, and fascism being more a tame and nationalistic version of socialism, possibly even not being isolated even after their invasion of Ethiopia, as the UK would be desperate for any ally on the continent, as all the other major powers would've gone hard extremist, with Italy being seen as the least radical of them all, along with this, allying with the Balkan nations like Hungary, Bulgaria, Romania and Greece, Yugoslavia would be out of the question as Hungary and Bulgaria would've had territorial claims on them. France ironically may fall to Fascism or Communism, with them losing territory despite winning the war, with even if they take the Rhineland, their economic situation would be in the gutter and there'd probably be some sort of anti French rebels in the Rhineland, preventing any real benefit from these lands. Germany would obviously still go ultranationalist. UK would remain much the same Factions of this world Allies; UK + Commonwealth, Italy, Greece, Bulgaria, Romania, Hungary (US joining would depend if Japan still decides to invade the allies) Axis; Germany, Yugoslavia, possibly Japan if this change does affect them and they decide to go to and invade north rather than south Cominterm; Soviet Union, Turkey

[@Ali-w5u3s]

I hope there would have been a better leader than atatuek to save Turkey. Its was more like going from one jail into another.

[@hotchocolateconnoisseur]

Bro should collab with us of z or videntis

[@zaktheinquisitor5769]

Fuck yeah!

[@firattekeli6145]

That’s a person cult if people believe on a mhytical savior that’s not how history works

[@guycrew3973]

Yes but great leader (that doesn’t mean morally good ) changing history isn’t new napoleon stalin hitler bismarck

[@00martoneniris86]

What if George the first survived his Assassination

[@benetgamingchanel4055]

14:36 I am not able to see the pun.

[@HistorysInfluence]

head of state vs figurehead of state. hard to pick up on without me explaining to be fair

[@MausOfTheHouse]

The good ending

[@00martoneniris86]

Pin

[@the3zoooz1]

bad ending*

[@buni1934]

Cope harder

[@oppionatedindividual8256]

@@the3zoooz1 good**

[@Normal_difficulty69]

@@oppionatedindividual8256 bad***

[@TimurKhan-dn5vx]

please next ataturk won project against these.

[@coquimarinero7246]

4:40 did Ataturk deny the Armenian genocide? I was not under that impression at all. Didn't he say it was shameful and that those responsible should be punished?

[@armenianmapper3168]

Ottoman empire in 1919 punished the organizers if Armenian Genocide , but Ataturk not only created the country , that opposed the government in Constantinople , but completed the genocide with starting a war against Armenia and Greece, enslaving armenians and destroying Armenia with Russia's help in 1920. Ataturk denied the genocide , bkamed everything on armenians and , as you can see , there are no armenians until today.

[@firattekeli6145]

Can you explain how you create a country that already exist ?

[@armenianmapper3168]

@@firattekeli6145 there were 2 governments . Otyoman Empire and Ankara government.

[@JustYourRandomTurk]

@@armenianmapper3168yes yes, can’t forget how atatürk also killed off the dinosaurs 😢😢😢 poor armenia :( no armenians left in armenia because of evil turks 😢😢

[@shinsenshogun900]

@@armenianmapper3168 To simply put, Ataturk inherited and kept the mess his predecessors started, and simply swept that project up with horrifying competent results

[@Mr.KaganbYaltrk]

He is great man God blessed him to us 🤘

[@xavierlauzac5922]

What do you think happens to Cyprus in this timeline? Edit: nevermind.

[@naroga7757]

He was half circassian half turkish