What if Carthage Won the SECOND Punic War?

#possiblehistory #ph
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[@T.Hebert]

Carthage: "I might have some trouble if Rome got a navy." "But would you lose?" Carthage: "Nah, I'd win."

[@SteveInLava]

Hannibal Barca: "I AM VENGEANCE!"

[@superpingu2593]

Romans: Domain expansion, never surrender

[@BZZZZZZtium]

Rome: In Capitulation , I am the exception as throughout the heavens and the earth, I alone am the honored one

[@YannisKarageorgiou]

"Through out the alps and the deserts, I alone I am the strategic one"

[@alaa6532]

"daddy scipioraga please save me!" -the fraudulent one, romekuna

[@danielsantiagourtado3430]

Hannibal's biggest dream! Romes WORST nightmare

[@Venezuelanmapper]

FR

[@sebjay0009]

Fax

[@minestar2247]

Glory to numidia and mauritania(proto algeria and morroco)

[@schkiddows6835]

this uhhhhhh.......this is the first time i've ever disagreed with a possible peace deal? I totally assumed carthage would just have complete ownership over iberian holdings, and i guess i can understand why they'd also take the islands, but to make rome lose core italian territory? I just dont think that's realistic if carthage is also suffering fom war exhaustion at this point.

[@possiblehistory]

I completely agree with you, I should have mentioned it as a possibility rather than a definitive thing. Luckily, it doesn't matter too much for the scenario at large.

[@schkiddows6835]

@@possiblehistory ok fair, apologies for nitpicking a bit there, thanks for the reply!

[@diegoidepersia]

​​@@schkiddows6835i feel its possible the punics would liberate Samnium and Capua as a southern italian state, possibly with Lucania and Bruttium, as well as Sicily going to Syracuse

[@adarshlokhande7653]

​@@possiblehistoryidea: best timeline for netherlands

[@ericc9321]

Magna Graecia wasn't annexed by Rome until the Second Punic War, and wasn't subdued until the three servile wars over the course of the next century. I think creating an anti-roman Greek led confederation inspired by what was happening in Greece wouldn't be impossible or unreasonable. It would only exist by force of Barcid arms but the cities collectively can project enough power to control the italics in the area (who generally also hate Rome)

[@scotandiamapping4549]

To be fair to Hannibal, if Rome was any other civilization then he would've been enough

[@minestar2247]

More than enough, but the Romans were mindless beasts and soldiers, not any civilisation

[@TheAltMapper]

A few video ideas (why not): - What if everything went perfect for Imperial Japan - What if Macedonia survived as an empire - What if Romania became a superpower like Britain or France - What if Portugal became the world power instead of Britain - What if Operation Sea Lion succeeded - What if the Confederacy survived as a nation and joined the Central Powers in WW1 - What if the Huns centralised and became an proper empire - What if Japan won the Pacific War - What if Japan became a global power alongside the Europeans and rivals Britain - What if Greece remained a great power - What if Britain turned Fascist in WW2 - What if the Majapahit survived and became a Pacific Power instead of Japan - What if the Xinhai Revolt never happened - What if the Arab World united after WW1 - What if PH sees this comment and turns these scenarios into videos :)

[@thatguythatmakestuff3994]

This man is giving me spoilers from oversimplified

[@AtlasArchive1979]

Same, I hope Oversimplified finishes the series soon

[@goldenfiberwheat238]

Is that seriously the only reason you know of the Punic wars

[@noahniskala]

@@goldenfiberwheat238 even as someone who knows tons of history about the 1800s-1900s, I ligit never knew about the punic wars until i saw oversimplifies video. Unless you find that time interesting you would know about it but I never found the roman times a interesting thing to learn by myself and thus always stayed away from it and learned more about the 1800s-1900s which I found as way more intresting.

[@thatguythatmakestuff3994]

@@goldenfiberwheat238 yeah sure, why ?

[@goldenfiberwheat238]

@@thatguythatmakestuff3994 you should watch dovahatty

[@adlk8154]

still waiting for oversimplified’s part 3

[@sebjay0009]

Yh same

[@mrsabak]

The sams

[@jaredjosephsongheng372]

Ye

[@minestar2247]

Well, this is the fan theories about what will happen in p 3, cause Hannibal has been extremely good so far, how could he lose?

[@OZERMAPPING]

@@minestar2247 you know scipios's son he comes back attack carthage and defeats hannibal

[@YuzuruHakushaku]

get this scenario: what if WWI happened because of Iran. you see in 1908 the Iranian parliament had plans for a coup to make Soltan Masud Mirza the new emperor (who was under heavy support of Britain) while Socialists constantly attempted assassinations against top-ranking men including the emperor himself and they were successful in some places such as killing Ali Asghar Khan Armani Aminossoltan who was chancellor of Iran for nearly 20 years. so in that year maybe one month before the parliamentary coup, the emperor did his own coup against the parliament with military and political support of Russia (I do not mean Cossocks because they were Mulsim Persians and Turks from Azerbaijan but their commander Vladimir Liakhof and many officers was Russian). so many fled to the British embassy and so the embassy circulated or even besieged by Iranian and Russian troops. Tsar said that Russia would not back off from Iran and the general governor of Caucasia ordered mobilization while Sir Edward Grey ordered the royal navy to move at the same time Bethmann-Hollweg declared German support for Russia everything for an earlier great war was ready but suddenly Russian legate declared for dual action and Mohammad Ali shah's letter to the Edward VII was answered so he ordered for withdraw but what if those did not happen? of course, Iran did not have the same military power of 1880 (the defeat of the royal army against revolutionaries in 1909 shows that) and absolutely could not defend herself but was an ally of Russia nonetheless. imagine Germany and of course Austria-Hungary on their side. in this scenario, I do not see the Ottoman Empire joining central powers especially since Russia was Osmanlu's enemy number plus could get more in the case of British victory and they were allies to each other in the Creamian War so, in that case, the first Balkan war could happen earlier after all Russia was in the war and imagining Italy joins British is not hard because of Austrian and Ottoman holdings. that means Japan invading both far eastern Russia (they had the plan to land 700K troops in such scenario) and German pacific islands. I don't have any doubt that in such a war France would fight against Germany and so we would see Schliffen plan anyway and most probably successfully with complete capitulation of Belgium. would the USA join this war? who knows but generally this is both sides of the war: the alliance of Marine powers: UK, France, Italy, Belgium, Japan, Ottoman, and maybe USA?. Alliance of Weltkerieg: Russia, Germany, Austria-Hungary, Iran, Serbia, Bulgaria, Greece, and China?

[@extraordinarytv5451]

Yes!!! Please this scenario!! Please!

[@htsgm]

its 2 am i cant read that sorry

[@PakBallandSami]

"God has given to man no sharper spur to victory than contempt of death." --Hannibal

[@minestar2247]

If someone (from Tunisia or somewhere in africa) somehow gets the tittle of a new Hannibal, I'd personally be scared

[@Raycist500]

Babe wake up, a new possible history vid dropped

[@DominoDominus]

Lucky to say france doesnt exist

[@BratotodChento]

I am single im a history nerdd

[@sebjay0009]

No need watching it before he uploaded it

[@irgendwer3610]

he possibly uploaded a new video

[@sebjay0009]

@@irgendwer3610 wgym

[@etiennegarant7545]

While I love your videos and have been watching most of them for over a year, I have a minor criticism/suggestion: if you could add a bit more variation in the background music, and not only re-use the same XIXth century classical tracks, maybe put something more relevant to the period and/or area discussed, could help with the immersion of what you are creating. Thank you and keep up the good work

[@raviolithebest8644]

[That time after a century] Rome : *"You took everything from me !"* Carthage : *"I dont even know who you are"*

[@Romanball5677]

Video suggestion: What if queen Victoria married to tsar Alexander ii

[@sheep7]

DAYUM that would be crazy

[@Romanball5677]

@@sheep7 it actually almost happened

[@TheTimurdempire]

This needs to be the top comment

[@berbrick1902]

Answer: In the short term, the Anglo Russian state becomes the most powerful state in the world and may eventually become the leading power in the eastern hemisphere

[@minestar2247]

@@berbrick1902 problem: the October revolution

[@Dead2__0418]

Real ones remember when the thumbnail was Rome being mad at the Carthaginian Empire

[@user-dz9hb3jt1d]

same

[@GlowingRoseDoesGeo]

Continue the Later Roman Victory scenario, and how the Hunnic invasion might be affected (I know it's nearly impossible to predict, but it would be an interesting video)

[@NykisPerson]

Alternate Title: If Carthages senate was actually competent

[@Dodo-td1pg]

I think it's easy to make Carthage destroy Rome. Italian allies just need to defect to Carthage. Since Hannibal won every single battle, ravaged lands, and promised freedom, it's more surprising they didn't defect over 17 years.

[@AURON2401]

Not even. All Hannibal needed was for for the senate back home to stop arguing with each other on how to win the war, when he was winning the war, and send 1 or 2 armies to reinforce him. He definitely could beat rome, even at it's full strength.

[@Threezi04]

Central Italy was way too loyal, southern Italy kinda did a little bit but not really since they were way too scared of Rome's retaliation.

[@grzegorzbrzeczyszczykiewic1139]

@@AURON2401 Rome at it's full strength? You mean Trajan?

[@AURON2401]

@@grzegorzbrzeczyszczykiewic1139 What's Trajan got to do with this, that was hundreds of years after this time. Kind of dificult to fight an enemy, when you arent even alive at the time he is.

[@priyansh_12391]

i hav been waiting for this video for months now!

[@deepanshugupta2042]

FINALLY someone decidede to answer this question. Thank you Possible History.

[@isaacostenson8429]

i got here 21 seconds after it was uploaded

[@OZERMAPPING]

Video ideas: What if ottomans won at viena What if germany never united What if the normans never conqured england What if the confedary won the civil war What if ussr came back today What if macedonia accepted persia's first peace attempt(or smth like that i forgot its name)

[@FodaseNaoLigo]

Ussr coming back is impossible

[@OZERMAPPING]

​@@FodaseNaoLigoso?he does make unrealistic scenarios

[@LoanSharkTheFirst]

Good ideas

[@OZERMAPPING]

@@LoanSharkTheFirst thanks

[@wheatyes2104]

What is Macedonia's first peace attempt? This sounds like a really cool scenario (even if Alexander's ego makes it unlikely)

[@henrymicek4566]

I really love your antiquity scenarios. I feel videos on more recent time periods have been covered to the point they have stopped seeming distinct anymore. While I feel the classical age (and maybe even the Bronze Age even if sources are sparse) have so much nuance they can offer to realm of alternate history.

[@KaiHung-wv3ul]

Exactly, so much untapped potential.

[@starwarsgeek8960]

I have been waiting for this!!!

[@DaYoshiGD]

wow about time you made this one i have been waiting for a month since you showed this video idea 3 months ago

[@Julianist]

I seriously love your channel bro

[@Burgermeister1836]

Seleucid restoration of Alexander's Empire has massive ramifications for the strength of Hellenic culture and identity, and for the potential spread of Christianity, especially as it interacts with Zoroastrianism. It's possible that it gets embraced in a syncretic fashion by the empire as a unifying force.

[@SunilDachmann-mg7mm]

Thank you so much for doing this scenario

[@NightRNRoblox]

I’ve wanted to see something like this for so long

[@AydoCYH]

LETS GO AN UPLOAD

[@michaelchristy506]

Finally, the video we all needed

[@dvdgo2006]

Sium. I've been waiting for this video for about 15 minutes

[@danielsantiagourtado3430]

Idea: What if Leopold accepted the greek throne? 🇬🇷🇬🇷🇬🇷🇬🇷

[@ASlickNamedPimpback]

Idea: What if I accepted the Greek throne? 🇲🇰🇲🇰🇲🇰🇲🇰

[@supoagentti9547]

Thanks for the Vid ❤

[@MrSomervillen]

Great video!!!

[@jimryan5513]

This one was great. The point about the impact of delaying Roman expansion certainly needed to be stressed, and is worth considering further in terms of how internal Roman dynamics would have been changed,

[@Fun4Fan0309]

Haven't even watched the video yet, but i bet it will be amazing!

[@stargazer-elite]

The fact that you didn’t upload a video about them winning the first Punic war before this implies that the first Punic war as a Roman victory is a canon event [insert prowler music here]

[@hugoferreira7992]

It was probably because the second war is more famous and more interesting 😅 But in reality, Carthage had a higher chance of winning the first war.

[@Nn91.]

What if the Kalmar Union survived or if Scandinavia unified after the Kalmar fell apart? (like 1600’s-1900’s)

[@hanyamanusia6271]

Very good video really, I really want to give you some suggestions for future videos, I hope you read them and make videos about them :) 1. What if everything perfect for Imperial Austria/Holy Roman Empire 2. What if Sweden Won The Great Northern War 3. What if Persian Empire Conquered Greece States 4. What if the sasanians defeated the byzantines 5. What if Italy had united earlier (in the 16th/17th century perhaps) 6. What if the Qing dynasty had succeeded in modernizing itself earlier 7. What if the Arabs had not been betrayed by Britain and France in the border treaty after the Arab revolution 8. What if everything was perfect for French Empire (Bourbon dynasty) 9. What if Morocco was a Colonial Empire 10. What if The Diriyah Emirate won in the Wahhabi war 11. What if the Carlists won the Carlist war I really enjoy watching your videos, because of my curiosity, your explanations are great and easy to understand, I will always wait for you to make videos on the topics I provide, I will always wait for them :)

[@arabfromramla]

Epic. Now do “What if everything went well for Carthage”

[@ruihund]

I would love to see you share your opinion on how realistic some popular alt history timelines are, such as tno, twr and kr😊

[@volbound1700]

I love this analysis, well thought out; especially noting the Carthaginian politics. I feel like Carthage had a better shot at defeating Rome in the 1st Punic War and was surprised that this wasn't the starting point.

[@alonk1060]

What a great one!

[@Veteran_of_history]

Like always amazingvideo

[@AradanEnvinyatar]

For any EU4 fans, there is an alternate history mod that explores this exact scenario, called Post Finem by Chewy. I’d highly recommend checking it out!

[@TijlDewitte-xu5zz]

New possible history vid

[@MisterRorschach90]

Alexander’s empire vs Carthage. They are repelled by the navy, but lose almost all land battles. Carthage allies with rome. Alexander seeks council from across his vast empire and decides to dam the entire Mediterranean, eventually drying it up and making Carthage’s navy pointless.

[@DDD2008.]

Video Idea:What if Mexico won the Mexican American war?

[@minestar2247]

Very unlikely, probably that America would just win anyways, in a rematch possibly

[@thatsoundslikeheresytomeyo4960]

​@@minestar2247I hate when people do this shit, like the basis of these kinds of scenarios is that they win and history changes. We know they wouldn't likely win we exist in the timeline where they didn't.

[@90skidcultist]

@@minestar2247 it was a hypothetical, lol!

[@minestar2247]

@@thatsoundslikeheresytomeyo4960 well, what did mexico want out of the war, did they even start it?

[@sebjay0009]

Watching the views and likes go up is so satisfying

[@concept5631]

Babe wake up, Hannibal is poggin out in Elysium

[@willie4445]

Video idea: What if the tanzimat reforms were successful?

[@PakBallandSami]

Hannibal: We are going to italy Elephants: not through the alps, right? Hannibal:🙂 Elephants: right?😰

[@barsukascool]

😊

[@90skidcultist]

🐘:🥶💀👻

[@stargazer-elite]

Short answer: it wouldn’t matter Rome would just try again Long answer: Hannibal would do pretty good, but as soon as he dies of old age Rome would simply reconquer the islands cartridge would last a bit longer in this timeline, but Rome is just too OP however, Rome would have a decent struggle to get back what they lost after losing such a large amount of their population population of capable fighting men. But hey, that’s just a theory AN ALT HISTOTHEORY I TOTALLY didn’t do all this just to make an absolutey horrendous pun

[@AURON2401]

What hannibal truly needed, was for the Idiots back at home in Carthage, to send reinforcements. If they didn't stick to their typical Businessmen trype of attitude to his huge success, they could have taken it within days of a large army landing to reinforce him.

[@GlidusFlowers]

I’d like to add to the idea of “why hannibal didint siege Rome” is that a lot of his troops were celts from borthern Italy who were somewhat presently conquered by Rome. They joined Hannibal because he showed that he was a great military leader who would win battles. In the case of a very long siege of a massive city, the celts might simply be disillusioned

[@stargazer-elite]

I love how because of the butterfly effect you have to turn this single alternate history into a bunch of smaller separate branching timelines lol

[@radored7750]

We might find out more about Carthage from Herculaneum papyrii.

[@anvos658]

Interesting seeing you cover the why he couldn't just siege Rome or a major city. Lol, that basically Carthage winning just leads to the 3rd Punic War.

[@radored7750]

pull a Caesar is a great quote.

[@user-cd4bx6uq1y]

Here when 34k within 7h, same day as the Tommy K video

[@henrikstoraker826]

Possible History can you please make the every modern empire video

[@Open89182]

Yea

[@haloreacondeltareach2738]

Hey I have a question. What is the application you use to edit these maps and what do you use to get maps that you edit

[@talosisoursavior3061]

I imagine everytime Hannibal gives a speech, he ends it with "roma delenda est" (in phonecian of course)

[@fabi6688]

Hey, will the "every empire" series be finished or is it cancelled? Thank you for an answer!

[@theaustralian832]

I believe it is planned to finish soon

[@Cannon530YTOO]

Not the video I wanted to see, but it’s Ancient History!

[@davimendesboni8777]

whats the music u used in the end

[@marxarx827]

I've got an idea, this may be very unrealistic but hear me out: What if the Kruševo Republic became fully independent and successfully rebelled against the Ottomans in 1903

[@bejede]

Nice vid, keep up with this amazing content 💪🫡

[@tajanagonzurek8083]

Finnaly this video came

[@Solkerash]

When do you think you’ll make a video on what if everything went perfect for the Mongol empire?

[@ziggytheassassin5835]

You should do a "what if everything went perfect for Pyrrhus". There would be a lot going on there.

[@marciohenrique6465]

Ideas for future scenarios: "What if the UK fell In 1991 instead of the USSR? (Basically, a more unpopular Thatcher that would lead to the rise of separatism in the country, which would result on a chain of events leading to the country's demise in 1991) "What if the USSR became Capitalist and still had won the Cold War?" (Think of it as: The USSR becomes OTL United States) "What If the Cold War was between Three Powers instead of Two?" (There are various possibilities for this scenario, so you could do more than one part about this one) "What if the Cold War was an dispute of Trotskyism against Marxism-Leninism?" (In this scenario, post-war Europe would turn to trotskyism, which would scare the U.S at first, but they would quickly support it due to their strong anti-soviet position, then, basically the USA would try to spread it across the world, as they did on OTL)

[@falkon787]

I waited for older history videos

[@adrianofeixa5026]

Make an part 3 please

[@Jeffro_afro]

Did the man update the thumbnail not even an hour later

[@omg_julius5294]

Why did you remove what if the danelaw survied from the 10 next planned videos

[@Hooman_raha]

can you do a what if everything went perfect for Iran video ?

[@Jekyllstein_Gray]

I salivate at the thought...

[@US_of_A_countryball]

"Hannibal, wake up! Scipio Africanus is outside of Carthage!"

[@randomguy6152]

Hannibal is my hero and my favorite man in history, i believe he'd be the Caesar of Carthage considering the political climate in Carthage at the time

[@Price7062._-]

Eventually you should make a video about what if the Napoleonic wars had turned into a world war.

[@skps2010]

Suggestion: what if Italian merchant republics survive?

[@ThatRandomStrategist]

Video idea: What if Mithridiates reclaimed Greece?

[@pakistanimapperr]

you should make a video on what if the 1857 revolt in india succeeded

[@Xcyiterr]

very nice scenario, but the audio for this video seems a kinda weird something seems to be automatically muting your voice at times and making it very unnatural

[@mantylegendary]

An hour and ummm.. [X] dislikes? Good video!

[@jonathanbowers8964]

Weird video idea (great for an April Fools day video): what if the Conch Republic successfully seceeded from the United States in the 1980s, becoming an independent sovereign state? How would it impact the end of the Cold War and US politicis moving forward?

[@ladahieno2382]

Did you change the thumbnail only 30 minutes after posting?

[@proudAlabianMan]

Do what if the Axis powers won World War Two next, I want to see ur take

[@thatguychris7824]

Why did I just now get a notification for this? I watched it yesterday by chance but didn't get the notification. Weird

[@Tommuli_Haudankaivaja]

What causes the weird audio?

[@PrinceJvstin]

Have you read Hannibal's Children by John Maddox Roberts? It has Carthage winning the second Punic War and sending Rome into exile in Germania

[@Nepalskij]

The Carthaginian’s geographical discoveries theme (Phoenician swimming around Africa for example) isn’t mentioned in video:( why they can’t discover America much earlier?

[@floor737]

What if Norway Won the Second Punic War? (Please do a what if everything went perfect for Norway scenario)

[@machocoder22aliastuftyshoe79]

When part 2 of the Three American Superpowers?

[@Teddyiscute2]

Never

[@Pie10000]

6:04 How do the precentages add up to 100.1%?

[@seananthony7494]

Can you do one of what if the Byzantine Empire built a colony in the Americas.

[@thelolo2183]

The Byzantine empire fell before the new world was discovered So how would they make a colony if they didn't exist

[@raxn2673]

0:53 HistoryMarche (a youtube history channel) counters your point well. He says there are two reasons why Hannibal didn't march on Rome: 1) He couldn't and Rome was too well defended. 2) He was influenced by Hellenistic thinking, which had the idea of defeating the opposition so many times on the battlefield that they are compelled to surrender. HistoryMarche describes that after the Trasimene battle, Rome only had 10k soldiers at the time which were defending the 13km perimeter wall city of Rome. Hannibal had 50k. HistoryMarche argued that Hannibal could have easily taken Rome, marching on it unopposed, which disproves the first argument. To add to that, when Hannibal encountered large boulders which blocked passages, he would order his men to surround it with firewood and pour liquid on it and set it on fire so that the boulder would literally crack in half. That is enough to break Rome's walls too, especially when you add 50k soldiers to it. So, HistoryMarche says it is more probable that he was influenced by Hellenistic philosophy of warfare, where you beat your opponent so bad that they give up, rather than razing their capital as a means for victory. This is very likely since Hannibal was born during the Hellenistic age and admired Pyrrhus, a greek conqueror, a lot (Hannibal ranked Pyrrhus on #2 place and ranked himself #3, although I disagree with this ranking). Edit: Now to address your point about Rome re-conquering itself even if Hannibal laid siege - it really depends. If Hannibal lays siege after Trasimene, as I said, he would be basically unopposed, with the closest reinforcements of 2 legions being in the most Southern heel of the Italian boot. Then, Rome would 100% be sacked and plundered. That would be enough a blow to the morale and resolve of the Romans for them to surrender since the whole "ROMA AETERNA" saying would be disproven. It would cause a surge of defections, including Capua. So, Capua and Rome under Hannibal's control would basically force them to surrender, rather than make them surrender, thus winning Carthage the war. By the way - Rome did hold absolute naval supremacy. After the battle of lake Trasimene, there were 70 Carthaginian ships floating near the waters of Rome. Rome was defended by 30 Roman ships. As HistoryMarche said it, "a possible land-sea operation might have been planned to take the city." The rest of the Roman fleet was all over the place - as you said, in Iberia, blocking Spain, in the Adriatic sea, and other places like Sicily and Sardinia.

[@Hashishiyah]

Thumbnail change?

[@destroydude]

Could you make a new discord link because the old one is expired