What If Ferrus Manus Sided With Fulgrim? - 40K Theories

What could have happened if Fulgrim had convinced his brother to join him in rebelling against The Emperor during the Horus Heresy?
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[@Zakvadr1995]

We all know what would have happened... Fulgrim would have learned the art of Eating Sand, catching Laz-beams in his hands and not have become Fatgrim. And Ferrus would have gotten into Heavy/Death Metal.

[@mercenarygundam1487]

Nah, Death Metal is when the Death Guard get involved and start beating the drums (Made of rotting skin) with bones.

[@jacobwilson8579]

And together they form the Heavy Metal Marines

[@cathode6252]

If Ferrus Manus had sided with Fulgrim then Noise Marines would be playing Heavy Metal and Black Metal rather than of Hair Metal and Glam Rock.

[@cas-17]

Luke Hauge yes, that is absolutely beautiful

[@oatlord]

You'd think after 40 thousand years musical genres would be more varied.

[@shdwfx40001]

@@oatlord Variesty is the spice of Life. The Spice of Life is Heresy.

[@Guaguadeath]

Lol Hell yeah!

[@redmanRuss]

I would actually like the noise marines if this was true...

[@shdwfx40001]

Perturabo: Me: What? You need something? *Why are you staring at my hammer?*

[@thatonepolarstarguy1012]

*Heavy breathing ensues*

[@shdwfx40001]

@@thatonepolarstarguy1012 Fulgrim: man I could suck the life out of Perturabo... Me: *Concern*

[@stealthephant4098]

@@shdwfx40001 Perturabo: Nothing to be worried about Ferrus. IT WAS ME, ALPHARIUS. Corvus Corax: Concern

[@shdwfx40001]

@@stealthephant4098 ...Alpharius...stay over there. Better yet, go away.

[@Ben_of_Langley]

I love these comments I saw something similar on a doom eternal video and it still makes me laugh when ever I think about only because like these I can picture it happening in my head lol brilliant

[@ninjabreadman8166]

He would still be a head taller than he is now :D

[@JoseGarcia-gm9lh]

LOL!

[@thatonepolarstarguy1012]

Ninjabread Man that made my day man

[@lamb_link]

Ooooh 30,000 years too soon my guy.

[@CryingZombie666]

Open up, this is the Ordo Grammaticus! This vulgar display of weak pun is HERESY!

[@tevitabulu2004]

If Ferrus had fallen to Chaos. That would make him WEEAAAKKKKK

[@rexlumontad8078]

Tevita Bulu In Roboutian Heresy, Ferrus fell to Chaos and joined Papa Nurgle against his will after he and his Legion were infected by Nurgle's Rot.

[@chenli9778]

Maybe He thought 4 arms Possessed Cyborg Marine was Coooooooooooool and decide to Join Chaos For that o(*￣︶￣*)o

[@sebastianyarrick2041]

Horus himself stated in the book vengeful spirit: "I didn't say he[Ferrus Manus] was perfect, but he knew war like no other. Terra would already be ours if he had joined us, if my Phoenician brother had handled the approach with a modicum of subtlety."

[@KantFromEC]

Side with Fulgrim - Lose your mind.. Side against Fulgrim - Lose your head...

[@Ben_of_Langley]

It's amazing just how much could have changed because of one thing all of which has pro's and cons for both side's. Very interesting theory thanks for the upload

[@evanfusco5739]

What do I think? I think ferrus manus would never lower himself to such a weak and cowardly level as the traitor primachs

[@Ben_of_Langley]

After rewatching this video at the end where your saying that if they had of turned the loyalist could have lost due to being out numbered or if they did win it would be a very close battle however I believe that if thing's had gone that way but the loyalist still won I think the cost of victory would be so great in lives and war engines that the imperiam wouldn't have been able to come back from it like the other race's the main one in my eyes would be the orks would take the opportunity and deal the killing blow. Because think about it with the traitors have an extra legion plus all the ship's normal imperial guard units that might have turned with them the loyalist would know that if they didn't use extreme force then it would cost them to many soldiers so like rather than trying to take World's that had fallen they might op for extermination of all the planet as it will save there own troops save on war engines which could be better placed at guarding the main solar system and other important systems which can not be lost by any cost you know ultramar would be able to stand but still I really do think that it would have done the imperiam in and if not the orks doing the killing blow by the time the tyranids came what's left of the imperiam by then after the war of the beast as well the tyranids might not even bother as there might not be enough biomass for them to see it worth taking... Who am I kidding the tyranids would see it as a easy meal lol

[@SuperSaiyanMaze]

What if Leman Russ ignored Horus' order to kill Magnus the Red, and arrived still intent to arrest him?

[@CryingZombie666]

That brings me one question: Russ usually doesn't take shit from anybody, and he was *CLEARLY* displeased when Horus was anointed Warmaster. So then, why the fuck wouldn't he ignore Horus's order to raze Prospero and kill Magnus anyway?

[@paulbrule5897]

@@CryingZombie666 plothole

[@cormacb2326]

@@CryingZombie666 Because he said the emperor ordered it. And Russ doesn't exactly suspect Horus of Heresy.

[@gwyndolin1536]

I think it would be ironic in that What-if Ferrus going Chaos pushed Perturabo to go Loyalist reasoning that his mechanical talents would be better appreciated by Terra seeing as Horus already had a mech guy.

[@Sigismund697]

I assume they would've succeeded on purging the Salamanders and RG, the entire Keys of Hel would've been released at full force and we would have not necron CSM and maybe Fulgrim would've remained sane for a lot longer

[@TaurenisTaursen]

i mean it would be cool if Guts- i mean Ferrus joined Grffi--Fulgrims chaos orgy..

[@invaderHUNK]

Fulgrim did nothing wrong

[@jamescawl6904]

@@invaderHUNK Fulgrim did everything wrong.

[@invaderHUNK]

Jamescawl the fact Fulgrim had a wife makes this so much more amusing

[@hithere5553]

FBI CIA wait what

[@jamescawl6904]

@@hithere5553 he had many wives All he outlived during the great crusade.

[@internetzenmaster8952]

Well he wouldn't be a Space Ghost head right now for starters...

[@shdwfx40001]

*You are wweeaakk...*

[@Persona6Blue]

@@shdwfx40001 I am aware, Ferrus.

[@topgun92x]

a Skhost xD

[@DaimoHope]

The Black Legion would probably eating more sand

[@shdwfx40001]

*gagging sounds*

[@kingfranpetty]

@@shdwfx40001 well considering the implied meaning I was about comment, it's rather fateful in these irony that you may have beaten me to the cold, metallic, steely, punch. So to speak.

[@viewernewest]

Hear me out. What if Guilliman refused to raze Monarchia? The majority of the primarchs, even Russ and Magnus, saw Lorgar's rebuke as far too heavy handed and extreme an action ordered by the emperor.

[@rexlumontad8078]

viewernewest That would become the Primarch Reformation aka pulling a Luther protesting by nailing the complaints and demands on the front door of the Imperial Palace.

[@CryingZombie666]

Whoaaaaaaaaaaa... Did I just trip on Warpdust? Russ and Magnus *AGREED* on something??

[@rexlumontad8078]

StygianTraveler141 Indeed. When shit is so bad, Magnus and Russ put aside their differences and show why it's serious business.

[@CryingZombie666]

@Rex Lumontad *Sniff sniff* They do care for one another after all.

[@rexlumontad8078]

StygianTraveler141 Vitriolic Best Buds in a nutshell.

[@AmentiVZ]

Ferrus Manus should have a cameo appearance as a head in a jar on Futurama - change my mind.

[@winterschwartz9522]

Nah.

[@matics453]

I don't want to

[@kailiciousthumbsup]

There not in the same universe

[@bobross9581]

@@kailiciousthumbsup it's a joke brah

[@tomtommerson6320]

Just finished 'Galaxy in Flames' today. Boy those last chapters were intense.

[@CryingZombie666]

You're quite late. But better late than never.

[@LocalHeretic-ck1kd]

I read Galaxy in Flames last year and I totally agree.

[@Abdega]

Looks at living metal protecting Ferrus’s arm Me: Should have went for the head

[@CryingZombie666]

Living Metal:"You thought it was his neck, but it was I - Iron Hands!"

[@gabrieldeoliveira8304]

I read that Horus wished for Ferrus Manus to side with him, saying he needed “strategists and men of duty”

[@TheMemphisxlr8]

Me, to Fulgrim: "That's no way to get a head in life..."

[@mercenarygundam1487]

That means Ferus is wweeeeeeaaakkkk

[@shdwfx40001]

*WWWWEEEAAA*-wait a minute you fu...

[@matics453]

Ferrus Manus Primarch of the Iron Hands Are u the SkOsT of Ferris Manus?

[@rexlumontad8078]

Armored mecha It did make him weak when he was forced to join Nurgle out of desperation to save his sons from agony of Nurgle's Rot.

[@CryingZombie666]

*Vulkan Punch* "Shut up, you inferior talking walking Emperor-damned possessed power armor suit!"

[@RevantheBlack]

What if in such a situation, the Emperor temporarily reinstated the Thunder Warriors to counter-balance the numbers of traitors?

[@CryingZombie666]

Would be an interesting situation, to be sure.

[@jakemyers2923]

Considering that 1 aging sickly thunder warrior was more than a match for the outcast dead I doubt the heresy would be more than footnote in history lol

[@CryingZombie666]

@Jake Myers I think things will spiral out of control really fast after that if Dhakal came out of the underhive and tell the truth to the current Thunder Warriors.

[@historytank5673]

@@CryingZombie666 Not necessarily, many thunder warriors who did not rebel instantly were understanding of why the emperor had them killed. They understood that most of them were doomed to go insane or died painfully. Also in this situation these recruits would be form guard regiments who understood their role and need and would likely be like oh ok so this is a doomed task but we need to stop chaos, their fore are role is to fight until we die. Also also the emperor likely would of implement modifications so as to make the thunder warriors better and this more loyal and unlike to go insane or die. So while some may go traitor if their told most likely would not and in any case a large number of old thunder warriors came back to aid the emperor so they would most certainly encourage the newer members to stay loyal.

[@Memelord1117]

​@@historytank5673 well, the TW master was able to cure himself by using astartes genes, and was alive by the time of the siege of Terra.

[@kingbaldwiniv5409]

So no Molech? No super-Horus? That presumes that the Octed would not get him the power otherwise. However other things would have changed too. The Cabal would not have recruited the 20th, since the Cabal was gunning for the 10th first. The numbers would be 9 vs 7. Also, the Alpha Legion should have been loyal at Isstvan and acted as an active subversive against the traitors. Ferrus ran ahead like a fool and ruined the loyalists chances at a balanced deployment and extraction. If the Alpha Legion were there instead, not only do you have a cooler headed Legion, but one with immense intelligence assets and one who is better at void warfare. Nothing subverts the Raven Guard's Raptor project. This means a bigger, better Raven Guard. Terra is not strangled through Alpha Legion subversion, maybe even no Drachnyen. The loyalists would get the best intelligence network in the galaxy, Russ wouldn't be flogged in the Alaxxis Nebula, the pylon array would be in Malcador's hands and galactic comms and transit would have been different in favor of Terra, plus better assasins. I will take the 20th over the 10th. PLUS, the two largest Legions stayed loyal, the fastest growing Legion stays loyal, the scars are communicated with clearly because the pylon a array is in loyalist hands and nobody is able to keep them from going back to Tara effectively. Let's be fair, if Ferrus were working with the traitors, then they would lose.

[@burningbronze7555]

That would be an interesting timeline.

[@tomtommerson6320]

What if Russ brought Magnus back to Terra?

[@kingbaldwiniv5409]

THAT is a good video idea. Magnus gets the explanation that he is actually supposed to man the OTHER throne, not the Golden Throne. Magnus doesn't fall for the transparent lies of Chaos. The Wolves and 1000 Sons are still loyal. The Primordial Annihilator is groin-stomped.

[@matics453]

King Baldwin IV Tzeencth : _Just as planned wait a minute........_

[@rexlumontad8078]

King Baldwin IV Yup, that happened in Renegades story when Space Wolves and Thousand Sons worked together to save Prospero and its people from Khorne-aligned Angron and the World Eaters.

[@davesobani9565]

I still hate the fact that no traitor primarch got a redemption. And yes Magnus deserved that in my opinion. But with what they did to fenris. I don't think this could ever happen.

[@rexlumontad8078]

Dave Sobani Be glad TTS made it reality.

[@StevetheWizard2591]

Next time: What if Magnus the Red had effectively communicated Horus's betrayal to the Emperor?

[@CryingZombie666]

Aka What if Tzeentch was unavailable?

[@mercenarygundam1487]

@@CryingZombie666 AKA What if Tzeentch was too busy sorting out his library, but can't decide how to organize it.

[@RocketHarry865]

What if Magnus the Red had communicated to Malcador first instead of directly trying to contact the Emperor. This probably meant that Magnus would not have inadvertently broken the psychic wards protecting the Emperor's webway project. Since Malcador the Sigillite was the closest avisor to the Emperor and the Emperor would have more likely have believed Malcador's word than Magnus so the Imperium would not have been taken by the surprised of Horus's betrayal as quickly. However since Magnus still did broke the Edict of Nikaea ban on the use of psychic powers Leman Russ and the Space Wolves would still be ordered to arrest Magnus for trial but the order would have been given directly from Malcador instead of through Horus which since Horus never changes the order to destroy Propesro, Magnus the Red would have been arrested peacefully. Since the Space Wolves never destroyed Prospero, the corrupted Horus would have realised that he had likely have lost the element of surprise and to neturalise the threat of the Thousand Sons counterattacking his forces rears he had to divert either Mortarion and the Death Guard or Angron and the World Eaters to attack Prospero which meant that he would have less forces available for the Battles of Isstvan III and V meaning the Loyalists would fare better in the battles though they would still lose these battles. With Magnus gone it would be likely that Prospero would still be destroyed but it since it is being done at the hands of the Traitors and not at the hands of the Space Wolves, it is likely that the Thousand Sons would remain loyal to the Imperium. Also the Thousand Sons forces at Prospero would have been prepared for the Traitors assault. Most of the Thousand Sons space fleet would have been destroyed above in orbit but not without inflicting significant damage on the Traitors forces buying time for the ground forces to prepare their defenses and to try to evacuate as many of Prospero civilians and their knowledge on psychic powers and the workings of the warp as possible. Any surviving Thousand Sons ships and their onboard contingents would be forced to scatter and retreat to Terra or to Ultramar.

[@destroyahx908]

Is there a theory that Ferrus's hands are made of Necrodermis, or is that common knowledge?

[@Grubnar]

Both. It is common knowledge, but it has never been actually confirmed that the "wyrm" Ferrus killed, and got his hands from, was a C-tan or some Necrontyr creation.

[@canis2020]

Ferrus? This is no time to fall apart! Evil is afoot and we need to get ahead. Come on Ferris, use your noodle and check yourself. This is not the right time to do chin ups! Get your head in the game!

[@Nikelajsen]

What I think? If the eldar are so smart, why did they not kill Kor Pharon and Erebus before they made Lorgar fall?

[@CryingZombie666]

Proof Eldar are full of shit. Orrrrrr... it's just shit writing on GW's part.

[@MR.LMR1996]

Did 40K Theories ever talk about if Ferrus killed Fulgrim in the past?

[@williamamely7038]

If Ferrus turned from the Emperor, it's possible that all of Mars would have fallen and the Dark Mechanicum would be collecting all of Terra's relics from the bed bodies of the Emperor and Malcador. That Webway will serve Horus well.

[@ryanspencer2844]

If we follow the theory that each of the primarch's represent a different aspect of the Emperor's personality the close friendship between Fulgrim and Ferrus becomes quite interesting indeed. In that Fulgrim is like that part of the Emperor who appreciates his dualistic nature as being of the warp yet loving the material plane. In addition to his wanting to be 'perfect' in all things. Whereas Ferrus represents the Emperor's desire to shape the universe into something which is knowable, predictable, and entirely tangible. And since the material universe is not 'perfectible' in a complete sense, Fulgrim can be seen as loving his brother while at the same time always feeling as if his understanding of things when beyond Ferrus's. And if Ferrus could only see that he would be able to achieve something greater than himself. Which makes me a bit curious about what would have happened if Fulgrim had developed as close a relationship as he had with Ferrus with Magnus. Would he then have gone the other way? Hating the warp for its constant mutability while trying to convince is brother that he should take a greater interest in the workings of 'normal space' and the material realm.

[@deadskrillaskrit2078]

Always a welcome sight! Good video, thank you!

[@94EyeEagle]

Ferrus and Fulgrim would immediately proceed to make out in a brotherly manner

[@shdwfx40001]

*Concern*

[@kingfranpetty]

@@shdwfx40001 I mean, that's still less worrying than what Lorgar did to that book with a picture of your father. Still deprived mind you.

[@nogodsnomasters7669]

To think this is Hersey call the inquisition

[@Duppyman695]

1800 ordo hereticus !

[@Dima072181]

Throne of Terra Philosoraptor….Vengeful Spirit, Horus flat out states that if Fulgrim had managed to persuade him Terra would have already been theirs. He mentions that only Ferrus was worthy of the role of Warmaster apart from himself

[@kingbaldwiniv5409]

That was Horus propaganda. Roboute and Sanguinius both knew that the only competitor Horus cared about beating for Warmaster was the Lion. If you read Ferrus' primarch novel, you know that he would have been the WORST pick, aside from maybe Perturabo. The 3rd Legionnaires were schooling the 10th and Ferrus was an embarrassment.

[@rexlumontad8078]

King Baldwin IV Proof.

[@kingbaldwiniv5409]

@@rexlumontad8078, Guilliman directly states it to the Lion in "The Unremembered Empire" when Roboute is giving him a tour of the Fortress of Hera. Additionally, if you have read or listened to "Warmaster", the Advent Mini story, Horus laments all of his primarchs that follow him as being broken monsters. It is far more likely that he just would have been excited to get one of the non broken monsters on his side. Also if you read the primarch novel for Ferrus, you get to see just how daft Ferrus Manus really is. The guy snatches defeat from the jaws of victory. In the book "Promethian Son", Ferrus is in charge of a force that includes his Legion, Mortarion and his Legion, and Vulcan with his Salamanders. You get to see some of the not-so Stellar leadership of the lord of the 10th here as well. Have you read these books?

[@rogerwhite9484]

VVithout Fulgrim, Horus, & the other Primarchs & their Legions all being 'blessed' by the chaos gods then the assault on terra vvould've been in much more doubt. I just dont see them succeeding vv/out the aid of the ruinous povvers & the gifts of daemonhood they gained .

[@LocalHeretic-ck1kd]

If Ferrus Manus joined Fulgrim then Fabious Bile would have no reason to work on his pet projects called: "Clone yourself a Primarch today!" and "How to train your Primarch".

[@armorFTW]

3:28 what is Fulgrim standing upon, is that a jet engine or something

[@Tacoguy1000]

They probably wouldn't be as shafted as they are currently. Even more forgotten than white scars and salamanders and those two are barely mentionned if at all.

[@BuzzChronicles]

WHAT IF FULGRIM DIDNT PICK UP THE SWORD & WARNED THE EMPEROR / BLOW UP HORUS FLEET WHEN HE HAD THE CHANCE ?

[@shdwfx40001]

This!

[@maliceharding4668]

Please do this ^^^

[@austinkersey2445]

What if Fulgrim played "double agent" during the Heresy, without the sword of course. Notifying the Emperor, while also keeping his cover. And then, during the Massacre, keep his fleets in orbit, have the Loyal commanders order a retreat to orbit, and then Exterminatus as they leave the atmosphere. Or assassinated Horus before he got to Terra, killed Curze, whatever. There is plenty of things he could have done to undermine Horus if he didn't have that goddamn Laer Blade. I know the daemon manipulated him mentally, but that thing just made his IQ drop a good 50 points whenever he picked it up.

[@johndanes2294]

*Sees the title* "My lord, is this legal?"

[@rexlumontad8078]

John Danes "I will make it legal." It happened in the Fulgrimian Heresy where Ferrus joined Arch-Traitor Fulgrim.

[@hughgedney3393]

Very great video as always 40k Theories.

[@bliblivion]

His IRON will can never be bend!!! His stubbornness have no equal therefore he is INCORRUPTIBLE! The warp can never find a hold on the unalterable shape of his mind.

[@jasonsantos3037]

I realize why the iron hand did not find her Primark skull seriously I know they took his body without his head

[@bezerker66691]

Another fantastic video my friend, truly an interesting thought. I'm pretty sure if Horus had all of those extra legions he would not have had to bait the emperor onto the vengeful spirit, I think the loyalist would have lost for sure in this case as the traitor legions were already winning.

[@Nyctophora]

It wouldn't have worked, but if it did, I think he'd have at least attempted to sort Fulgrim out.

[@AlphaCocoAudio]

The emperor would Thanos snap horus and not be a corpse and ferrus would be a daemon primarch

[@kingbaldwiniv5409]

Khorne, meet your new daemon primarch, the patron daemon of sucking at EVERYTHING and losing.

[@rexlumontad8078]

King Baldwin IV Rogal was Khorne's champion in Roboutian Heresy

[@joshfrew3628]

Fulgrim with ferrus still alive and with him: [HAPPY NOISE]

[@Avariel]

As long as the two primarchs upon Istavan V were captured and not killed I could see a negotiation taking place. The Emporer knows the remaining 6 would have no chance against 10 fully armed legions and the lack of complete taint of the warp on the traitors, from Horus never gaining the blessing and Fulgrim never transforming, would mean his best chance would lie with telling them the truth about the ruinous powers. It would probably initially be a meeting between Sanguinius and Horus.

[@michaelhowell2326]

Even though Horus was blessed by the Ruinous Powers, wasn't the Emperor still vastly stronger? As I understand it the Emperor could have smashed Horus at any moment, but just couldn't bring himself to do it.

[@owenbevt3]

Given this, the level of physic power he displays in choking Horus earlier and his level of knowledge of primark bodys it's starting to sound to me as if the better choice would have been to teleport Malkidor in with the loyalist primarks while Emps held the Throne.

[@michaelhowell2326]

@@owenbevt3 if he weren't confined to the Throne he probably would have.

[@Self-replicating_whatnot]

I am sorry, what? The reason that conference on Dwell was called in the first place is because Horus already acessed his memories of Moloch by some means, assassination attempt by Meduson was only a quick interruption.

[@headlibrarian1996]

If Fulgrim isn't full-on crazy when the siege of Terra starts then his legion aids the siege rather than attack the general population. That means the Eternity Gate falls before the incoming Ultramarines fleet arrives in system, likely handing the traitors complete victory. Of course, there would be no duel on Horus' flagship either. Horus and the Emperor fight in the Imperial Palace, but with the Emperor likely dead because there's no Golden Throne to put him in, or the Emperor flees along with Malcador, Dorn, Sanguinius, and Jaghatai Khan.

[@rexlumontad8078]

That actually happened in the Fulgrimian Heresy where Fulgrim the Arch-Traitor and Ferrus fight side by side against the Emperor they rebelled. Although the difference is that Fulgrim managed to snag Eight Traitor Legions into his side while the Imperium retained Ten Loyalist Legions. And that Fulgrim calls himself War Commander of Chaos since Horus is loyalist and still Warmaster of the Imperium. FH Loyalists 1. Sons of Horus (Horus Luperchal) 2. Raven Guard (Corvus Corax) 3. Iron Warriors (Perturabo) 4. Imperial Fists (Rogal Dorn) 5. Dark Angels (Lion El'Jonson) 6. Blood Angels (Sanguinius) 7. Space Wolves (Leman Russ) 8. Death Guard (Mortarion) 9. Ultramarines (Roboute Guilliman) 10. Salamanders (Vulkan) FH Traitors 1. Emperor's Children - renamed as Sons of Fulgrim (Fulgrim) 2. Iron Hands (Ferrus Manus) 3. Word Bearers (Lorgar Aurelian) 4. Thousand Sons (Magnus the Red) 5. Night Lords (Konrad Curze) 6. Alpha Legion (Alpharius) 7. World Eaters (Angron) 8. White Scars (Jaghatai Khan)

[@MRDEVO12311]

Interesting, I'm going to look this up.

[@rexlumontad8078]

The warsmith www.fanfiction.net/s/12178465/1/Death-of-Unity-The-Fulgrimian-Heresy Enjoy.

[@spencerschaepman7239]

Malcador made Rogal Dorn Warmaster in all but name. It makes me wonder, would Rogal Dorn have been Malcador's choice to begin with? Or was it a matter of convenience? Malcador is often indicated to have widely different (and often better) ideas from the Emperor regarding what would be best for the Imperium. Who would Malcador have chosen for Warmaster? Dorn? Guilliman? Johnson? Would he have chosen one at all?

[@kingjonstarkgeryan8573]

Can we get a video about what if Leman Russ returned from the Warp?

[@robertnelson9599]

Having Leman or Corvus return form the Warp would be a tricky subject. They both have most likely mutated, and as such would test the Imperium on whether being a primarch is ore important than being a mutant.

[@JimboDoomface]

*when

[@topgun92x]

in that case the alpha legion would have revealed themselves as mankinds saviours, backstabbing the traitors during the siege of our glorious homeworld while screaming for the emperor, i am alpharious and and hydra dominatus all at the same time while complete havoc harrows over horus, cursed be his name, and demolishes chaos

[@jeffpurdy2562]

Just a though what if instead of the night lords, iron warriors alpha legion and word bearers sent as second wave but the blood Angel's white scars ultramarine and dark Angel's were the second wave

[@pixelgun4789]

According to Roboute, if Ferrus would join Horus, Imperium would be screwed.

[@Gormathius]

Yeesh there are a lotta convoluted consequences in the Horus Heresy. My first assumption was traitors gain another Primarch, shifting the balance in their favour and the Imperium is crushed. But apparently it's not that simple.

[@Darksmirk1]

Would the amount of traitor legions make the emperor consider reinstating, resurrecting via cloning of the 2 legions erased from history. In a last ditch effort to bolster they’re ranks?

[@dommydench4693]

This rabbit hole is an abyss of what ifs?

[@Duppyman695]

But what if we never asked 'what if' ?

[@olehhumeniuk1632]

It is doubtful. Ferrus looked like a machine and behaved like a machine ... and the machine was programmed to be loyal

[@alzieforbes9844]

Was thinking where do i know that music from then realised it was from dark omen

[@UltimateDeliciousPie]

Well, someone likes the soundtrack to Warhammer Dark Omen. Good choice.

[@zenlarrushiro3607]

I would prefer fulgrim never obtaining the laer blade.

[@40KTheories]

Already did that one :P

[@zenlarrushiro3607]

@@40KTheories I already watched that too!

[@gagaplex]

Wait, Dorn sent them? And didn't send at least part of his own Legion with them, while the rest worked on fortifying Terra? What the hell, Dorn?

[@Caliif]

pretty sure the chaos gods would send Horus to the gate either way but other then that very inetresting

[@peternordgren]

Ferrus would have been hovering over Fulgrim's shoulder telling him he was weak. WEEEEEEAK! Eventually Fulgrim would have shanked Ferrus, but not necessarily turned against the Emperor. At least not until Emps found some new low when it came to horrible parenting that is.

[@oldeskul]

Didn't other primarchs that turned traitor have a(to put mildly) strong dislike of Ferrus Mannus, before the events of the Horus Heresy? I could see one of the Traitor primarchs that had a strong dislike of Ferrus secretly or maybe openly betraying the traitors and at least siding with the Imperium for selfish reasons and afterwards living as renegades or outcasts.

[@TheSeanoops]

Ferris should have used his head, he was emotional. He should have waited, licked his wounds, and marshaled his legion to destroy the Emperor’s Children.

[@jessegd6306]

What if Ferrus just decided to stab Fulgrim in the back metaphorically and physically in order to more easily slay the traitor primarch? What if he did that rather than actually turning coat?

[@phreakazoith2237]

Killing his bro was a great primer to corrupt him. But the blade might have found another event to make Fulgrim surrender sooner or later. Chaos items have patience in corroding your soul have they?

[@julianbraunbeck7632]

what is the music that playes after the intro?

[@farseeraradrel4808]

Wait, I thought Fulgrim was already devoted to Slaanesh before slaying Ferrus, and used the murder as a bait to make the Greater Daemon of the Laer Blade unaware, and deceive it later. So, Ferrus Manus or Not, Fulgrim would have still become a Daemon Prince of Slaanesh...? Damit, can the Horus Heresy be something else than a mess for just a minute !?!

[@40KTheories]

Fulgrim was slowly being corrupted by the blade, but hadn't fallen completely to Slaanesh worship at that point. This is even supported within "The Reflection Crack'd" "You were right to suspect I was not myself, *The killing of the Gorgon was an act that severed my last tie to a lost life, a past that means nothing to me now* And no act of such magnitude is free of consequence." (…) “I was *vulnerable* A servant of the Dark Prince took my flesh for its own amusement. It was an ancient thing, a needy, capricious thing that revelled in its stolen prize, and for a time I allowed it to retain possession of my body while I learned of it and its powers. I think it hoped I would be crushed by the death of my brother... (…) It should have known better. After all, *it had started me down the road of self-indulgence* and a life free of inhibitions or guilt. What did I care for one more betrayal? Manus was already a fading memory, a ghost who recedes with each passing moment, and everything I learned from it only made me stronger. Intime, it was a simple matter to reclaim my body and cast it into the prison it had crafted for me.”

[@hithere5553]

Ferris lost because he didn’t bring a big enough sword

[@edwardoavila7666]

He would have punched horus’s head off and gotten his rematch with the emperor.

[@Kwg420]

What if Perturabo had stayed loyal?

[@planetkc]

FOR THE IMPERIUM!

[@badgamemaster]

Horus could still learn about Molech from Lorgar if the Chaos Gods wanted he to.. but if Fulgrim wasn't a Daemon Prince yet the battle could have become harder for the traitors as House Devine wouldn't fall to chaos that easy if at all.... Another question have much of the Iron Hands Legion would Ferrus Manus be forced to order killed?

[@pensador6953]

The way i see it if horus had no chance against the Emperor that would mean little, even if they destroyed most of the loyalists and overwhelmed the imperium in numbers, that still leaves the most important piece the Emperor with the might of the Emperor, even with numerical superiority that would still be a matter of time until Horus's war broke and failed, harder than before in fact because the Emperor would still be able to pick the imperium back, this might as well be a victory condition, he survives you lose. simple like that. I don't think this fact can be argued. if i got it wrong please let me know.

[@PatoMaloKing]

If Ferrus Manus joined to Fulgrin, It´s very possible that he must change his name by Ferrus Anus (bada-chum)

[@AzyrealLal]

What if Mannus was able to turn fulgrim back to the emperor?

[@gamer65688]

He would become Ferrus the Mannuse

[@exactinmidget92]

my brain cant comprehend 90% Legion losses. that's a fuckton of marines lost.

[@kingbaldwiniv5409]

Thank Ferrus for rushing in and over-committing the loyalists.

[@UncleMikeDrop]

What if Ferrus Manus defeated and killed Fulgrim?

[@comradealex85]

That was somewhat... convoluted.

[@Audiotrocious]

I thought Fulgrim was in control again due to using his former prison, the painting, to trap/weaken the daemon?

[@40KTheories]

He is. But it was due to the daemon possessing him that Fulgrim would eventually learn of things such as the possibility of ascending to daemonhood.

[@robertoluna6606]

*Insert decapitation joke here*

[@creaturetransylvania8943]

Cool.

[@Ranmus]

Welp, the dark mechanicus has a new best friend...

[@CryingZombie666]

Mechanicum*

[@Ranmus]

@@CryingZombie666 oh nuts, you're right. Phone can't recognize Mechanicus, so it put mechanics, lol!

[@CryingZombie666]

@The Greatest Rogue Trader I meant *Mechanicum* . During the Horus Heresy, the Mechanicus was known as the Mechanicum.

[@Ranmus]

@@CryingZombie666 I know that, I'm referring to them post heresy. Why would you believe I'm correcting you?

[@CryingZombie666]

@The Greatest Rogue Trader This is during the Heresy, why would you speak of the times after it? If Ferrus became a traitor, wouldn't he place the Dark Mechanicum under his protection right away anyway?

[@Matt-md5yt]

this wouldn't be good

[@thelegoyousteppedon]

Why would I kill my best friend

[@R.J.MacReady1982]

He wouldn't be dead.

[@RoosterCogburnPhD]

12:04 Why would the Emperor lead a traitor legion

[@40KTheories]

It was a slight misspeak. The Emperor obviously wouldn't have traitor legions xD

[@Abdega]

40K Theories Or… would he? Have there ever been “redeemed” legions or “double agent” legions that fought once again for the Emperor? The taint of chaos is usually purged, but has anyone ever turned coat the other direction?

[@RoosterCogburnPhD]

@@40KTheories Except for the Alpha Legion

[@pedrokdc]

Blame Ferrus.

[@SawyerKnight]

Traitors make me sick!

[@Duppyman695]

Erabus was never a traitor he was always a Heretic!

[@jean-michellegault1905]

NOT GONNA HAPPEN EVER !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[@XUndergroundRap]

but, if.....

[@yubyubyub1960]

FLESH IS WEAK

[@kingfranpetty]

I find when it's the matters of pinky and her band of sweaty meats that the flesh is disturbingly hard. Almost as if made of steel itself.

[@spaceythehuman5530]

CLICKED FAST AS HELL