What If Henry VIII's Son Had Lived? Turning Point: an Alternate History - Polymath Library

What if Henry VIII's first son had lived to ascend the throne of England? The Tudor dynasty takes a vastly different turn in this peek at an alternate history. With an heir secured early in his marriage to Catherine of Aragon, Henry VIII might not have pursued a divorce or broken from the Catholic church, forever altering the religious landscape of England. The tantalizing question remains - how would this have changed the course of English and world history? Join us as we explore this mysterious and intriguing alternate reality, delving into a Tudor dynasty's political and social consequences with a different heir. Discover the what-ifs and maybes of this tantalizing alternate history, as we journey into the unknown and unravel the secrets of what might have been. Don't miss out on this fascinating exploration of Henry VIII and his first son in Turning Point.

[@stevenweaver3386]

What if Henry's brother Arthur Prince of Wales survived?

[@VersieKilgannon]

That's the real game changer even more so than Henry VIII's firstborn living onto adulthood, if you ask me 👏

[@jamellfoster6029]

So true. Maybe Katherine's kids with Arthur would have all survived...

[@SaguaroBlossom]

What about the princes in the tower? No Richard III.

[@dimitrabir.4177]

Asking the REAL questions!!!

[@user-ti5cw1ug6l]

@@SaguaroBlossom No Tudor.

[@susangavaghan]

Yes, this is fascinating. If Henry had lived and become Henry IX England would have remained Catholic and there would have been far less religious persecution. The monasteries would have remained. All that religious turmoil began simply because Henry wanted to change one woman for another, not for any great religious reason. Henry would not have gone on to have a further 5 wives. Catherine's sister Joanna was not of sound mind, yet produced a large number of children. Yet Catherine was so unfortunate in that all but one of her children survived and it was her daughter Mary. Henry would never have married Anne Boleyn and Elizabeth would not have existed. Catherine Howard would no doubt have married someone of her own age, lived a long life and had children.

[@danielasarmiento30]

Without Henry to block her life, Anne would have likely married her at the time fiance and/or left the country to go back to France. Maybe even as a lady in waiting to Mary even. After all, the one reason she accepted Henry was in great part because you don't say no to the king

[@nancyomalley6286]

I thought you were talking about Edward VI-and if he didn't die @ 15-Then Mary and Elizabeth might not have become queens themselves!

[@maliaferry8212]

Henry the 8th was a spear, he was never supposed to be King, the real question is what is his older brother Author had lived?

[@NothingToNoOneInParticular]

More importantly what would England have looked like if Prince Arthur had lived? Henry would never have been King....

[@clarissesimon9253]

Why use a picture of the son of the French King alongside King Henry?

[@daniellemusella1594]

1] Fan-fiction websites have produced some amazing theories. Tying that to the scenario shown here, there is a possibility that Anne Boleyn could've still been a prominent figure by becoming the mistress, or even the wife of Prince Henry, instead of his father. If we go with the second option, then Elizabeth I could've been born this way, as a granddaughter of Henry VIII instead of a daughter. As for Prince Edward, the Duke of York in this version of history, he could've been married to either Jane Grey or Mary Stuart, Queen of Scotland. The latter was a top candidate for his hand in the original timeline. Had this marriage taken place, he would've become the Prince or King Consort of Scotland, and their child could've been betrothed to one of Henry and Anne's. Another could've been married off to one of Mary's kids with the French king. Personally, I'd love to see this concept be turned into a series of books, or even a TV mini-series. 2] Another "what if" scenario I'd love to see covered on this channel would be, "What if Jane Seymour's baby had been another girl?" This means that everything else, including Jane's death in childbirth, would've been exactly the same, with the exception that the baby was a princess. Obviously, Henry wouldn't have been able to annul his marriage to Jane, due to her passing, which also means that his infant daughter would've remained legitimate. Another consequence is that he would've probably put more of an effort into making his marriage to Anne of Cleves successful, which means consummation. (3/18/2023)

[@raumaanking]

Hi I was going to say imagine if Anne Boleyn and Catherine Howard were never killed instead they got an annulment and were sent away imagine if they were both still alive during Mary’s reign 😱 oh I hope you don’t mind I also have other what if questions if you don’t mind we’ll 2 more but what do you think would have happened in your opinion thanks

[@caramia4143]

So many “what-ifs” with the Tudors. My mind is blown reading all these comments. They would be great for a book/TV series

[@raumaanking]

@@caramia4143 I know right I can’t believe no one has ever made a what if but that is on one specific topic lol

[@KarenOCallaghan-u5o]

And Henry would not have praised Jane Seymour after her death. Jane had done two things right: she gave Henry a son who lived and then she died before he tired of her.

[@b.j.thomas9754]

That's not Henry viii son in the thumbnail. It's Mary Queen of Scots husband. Francis

[@polymath_library]

Well spotted! As Henry's son, Henry, died at 52 days of age, there are no paintings of him. Liberties were taken with the art for the sake of representation.

[@ShallowApple22]

Throughly enjoyed watching this thank you.

[@polymath_library]

Thanks for watching!

[@carmelarodriguez3272]

Someone authored a series about what would have happened had Anne Boleyn given birth to a boy It was really good! I wish I remembered the author, I want to read them again I’m pretty sure the first book was called The Boleyn King

[@Beckirawwr]

I love her books!

[@alecblunden8615]

If that is the title, Laura Andersen wrote it.

[@ThatOneSandwichGuy]

Edward probably woulda married Elisabeth of Valois as her dowry and what not had already been arranged. It's possible Mary Queen of Scots woulda married Francis II regardless if a marriage between Edward and his sister where married to one another.

[@annedonnellan6876]

Would have..

[@raumaanking]

What about Lady Jane Grey

[@kithale316]

Why the photograph of Francois II of France? He didn't live long either. The poor boy died in agony of an ear infection. I think he was 16 when he died.

[@AmandathePandaBooks]

Henry and Catherine would have stayed married. Which would have spared all those other women!!

[@joseygonzalez1800]

wow this is so good! subbed

[@akilirudolph-op2lp]

Hey would you be interested in covering Mary Queen of Scots?

[@phasmin9017]

I love alternate history I just sent this video to my sister who is a theater kid six is one of her favorites she’s gonna be depressed that I snapped it out of existence lmao

[@sgillespie964]

Why have you used Prince Carlos of Spain in the thumbnail?

[@beckyringkamp-wells1619]

Catherine woud not have died. She died of a broken heart

[@jenniferwilloughby453]

This topic could easily make a great book, just saying .

[@paulhickie6974]

Very interesting 😊.

[@jenn9935]

Vastly Entertaining ♡

[@polymath_library]

Thank you!

[@Astro-uc1pi]

Out of all people why you used the portrait of Francis II king of France in the thumbnail 😂

[@CaptainJackSparrowSavvy]

They did because since Henry's son Henry died at 52 days old, there where no portraits of him.

[@aprilgosa5779]

If the boy had lived Henry would still have done the same thing to Catherine that he did when something or someone else caught his eye and Anne was one of Catherine's ladies so she likely still would have been his 2nd wife regardless and I get the pressure he was under to produce male heirs but that gave him no right to be the Narcississtic Psychopath that he became I think the power went to his head

[@s6r231]

He likely wouldn’t have annulled his marriage to Catherine though. He truly was obsessed with having a male heir and he wouldn’t have disinherited his son for anybody.

[@jamesalexander5623]

Wow! A very plausible Timeline! England / Great Britian might never become the World Power it did and with no "Elizabethan Age" perhaps no Shakespeare and later no King James Version of the Bible! And how different would Colonial America have been?

[@polymath_library]

The changes would have been immense, sadly once Henry IX took the throne there is very little to tell us which way history would have gone but it seems likely that the changes would only have become greater from there.

[@nancyomalley6286]

Would there even BE a Colonial America, and if so, which European country would have started and controlled it?

[@annwilliams6438]

@@nancyomalley6286 Likely a Spanish North America?

[@nancyomalley6286]

@@annwilliams6438 Yeah, that's what I'm thinking

[@s6r231]

I can’t see a change in monarch really affecting Shakespeare. It’s not like Elizabeth directly influenced him.

[@KarenOCallaghan-u5o]

If all of Catherine’s pregnancies had resulted in healthy children, Henry would not have needed to look for other wives.

[@AlisonProctor-fq4kt]

Mary would have been less bloody, and more housed in The Tower.

[@meganlyb83]

Why did you keep showing a pic of Arthur when talking about Catherine & Henry’s marriage?

[@adamducky900]

Henry has a son Eduard VI

[@naithom]

I have always wondered what would have occurred had Catherine of Aragon had suggested the Biblical solution of using a surrogate. Had Anne Boleyn acted as a "handmaiden", instead of wife, Elizabeth would have still been born and in the succession but Anne would not have become Henry's wife until after Catherine's death. Catherine would have continued to be queen, Anne would not have been executed, and Mary and Elizabeth would have had a much different relationshup.

[@adrianjohnson7920]

That was early (bronze-age) Old Testament, and by the late Old Testament it was religiously forbidden. The Church (New Testament) never condoned this, and had it happened, the child would have been illigimate and unable to inherit the crown. It is fantasy to think this could have been historically accepted.

[@Kaylee-Renee]

Maybe I'm wrong but I thought the pope had offered to legitimize any children he had with Anne as long as she was only a mistress and he stayed married to Catherine.

[@PatrickKniesler]

More reasonable to me would be Henry finding and adopting a son out of the nobility. This was a common Roman thing and was reinforced by Christianity considering all as children of God. I'm not completely positive but I remember it may not have been unheard of in ancient Britain. It requires humility from the adoptive parents, understanding from the nobility, and piety from the common folk to work well.

[@liatmarmur4368]

I wonder what Henry would have thought if he knew that biologically the man is the one that determines the sex of the baby in his sperm. He essentially is responsible for producing so many girls over boys.

[@jenniferwilloughby453]

If he had lived, I wonder if we would have had ww2? And if no ww2 I doubt my birth would have happened.

[@traceybeagle9934]

Would England and Scotland United and what about the civil war.

[@christinecallahan5512]

How abouth prince arthur.......

[@peterphilstacey4698]

What if Madonna turned back human?

[@MayaLarsen-y3r]

He would of Marries Mary Queen of Scots and united England and Scotland.

[@DL-od4su]

Which son? The legit one? or the illegit one? or all the ones that died at birth?

[@Nxzomia]

The legit one

[@carinafourie9119]

Henry would have married a foreign princess as a second wife. Not an English nobody like Jane Seymour. It was Anne’s marriage that paved the way for Jane to marry Henry.

[@joanmarshall6861]

God help us all.

[@WindowWasherCalgary]

😆 If Henry VIII hadn’t have been standing so close to his microwave, his male sperm cells wouldn’t have been nuked. Just saying.

[@nannettepolcastro4799]

It doesn't matter. He did die.

[@irenemeno3585]

We would not have had the King James Bible organized and printed in 1611. It was because of Qn. Elizabeth I naming her successor as James VI/I (6th, 1st) that through him the Lord allowed and inspired the King James translators to put the Bible into print. From that point on, the greatest true story ever told became published for the whole world to know and hear. Amen, and Amen 🙏🏼

[@christinecallahan5512]

The way they pronounce foreign names is TERRIBLE......

[@christinadiaz4349]

I really think people were killing these children. They just gave up their children at birth to caregivers. 👀

[@alecblunden8615]

The levels of infant mortality prior to 1945 were horrendous. If you read the histories of Roman luminaries by, say, Suetonius or Plutarch, you will notice that few details of infancy, apart from omens of future greatness, are included. It was seen as tempting fate to dwell on that period.

[@kyterunner5440]

What if Henry's BROTHER, Arthur, had lived?

[@beckyringkamp-wells1619]

what if the th e boys in the tower had lived.

[@kyterunner5440]

@@beckyringkamp-wells1619 good one

[@rhysthomas5811]

The United Kingdom would be a Roman Catholic Country. with no splitting off and forming the Anglican Church

[@nrkgalt]

Some other royal alternative scenarios: If Henry V had not died shortly after being named king of France, thus enabling him to consolidate his control of both countries. If Henry VIII had been willing to let his daughter Mary be a ruling queen. She certainly would have married much earlier than age 39. If Edward the Black Prince had survived to become king. If Henry I’s son William had not been killed in a drunken shipwreck. If the daughter of George IV and her son had survived her giving birth. If just one of the numerous children Queen Anne had given birth to had survived to adulthood. If Harold Godwinson had not been killed at the Battle of Hastings If the supposedly troublesome Prince Eddy, eldest son of the future Edward VII, had not died.

[@cherrytraveller5915]

Out of all of Henry children Edward VI has the most underrated marker for his resting place. People will argue Mary was worse as she has the shrine to Elizabeth over her. Edward had a tiny little marker that if you blink you miss it. The marker shows what Mary really felt about her younger brother which is rather sad.

[@user-ti5cw1ug6l]

I think England would've turned to protestantism even if it wasn't Henry VIII who had broken from the church and this is because of its unique form of government compared to the rest of Europe. Even by this point in history multiple English monarchs were deposed because they didn't rule lawfully or just too ineffectively and their powers were somewhat restrained by other governing institutions.

[@PatrickKniesler]

Indeed it might have been a land with a lot of protestant repression. I think that without a protestant England the continental revolution may have been ground down in time.